Latest / She Rises with Ashy & Tijana / I DONT WANT KIDS …. Or do I? 🤯 Fears, Social Pressure and PURE judgment around Motherhood - Lets talk about it 🙁

Transcript

I DONT WANT KIDS …. Or do I? 🤯 Fears, Social Pressure and PURE judgment around Motherhood - Lets talk about it 🙁 · She Rises with Ashy & Tijana

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Apogee Production. Welcome to the She Rises Podcast. I'm Ashy
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and I'm Tiana. This podcast is about female empowerment.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: And encouraging you to be your biggest, boldest, and most
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: authentic version of yourself.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: We help you shed the shame, grow to new level.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: We're gonna laugh, cry, and talk about the topics everyone
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: else is too afraid to talk about.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Get ready for your next level of self.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome back to She Rises. Welcome back if
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: you're new here. Welcome if you've been here for a while, settling,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: get comfy. This is an interesting episode, one that Tiana
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: and I have had many conversations about, and it's all
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: about Tiana not wanting.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Kids, one that we actually had on the way up
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: to film this episode today.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: We did.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: When I first met Tiana, she was all, I don't
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: want kids, And I was like, what do you mean
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: you don't want kids?
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, right, yeah.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I was just like, no, but just tell me more.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your perspective on why. There was
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: a few different reasons that popped up for you, but like,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: I just have never been someone that thought I could
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: see myself with kids. But as time's gone on, and
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: you've met someone new and you're I suppose exploring what
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: you want your life to look like, what he's wanting
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and desiring in life. And I remember you're at my house.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Actually is when Tyler opened my bottom draw and pulled
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: my sex toys out. Do you remember she was like,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: what is what? And then like runs around with them
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and she's like when she showed Steve, Yeah, I found
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: But also what was in the bottom of my drawer
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: was my ultrasound photos. And I think it was when
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: you left you were like, that's the first time that
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I wonder how that would be
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: to have my own ultrasound photos. Yeah, it was also nice.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: You were like I love the way you and Steve
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: are such a team. And I've just never seen this
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: like dynamic of family where you're all just working together
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: and it's so beautiful and you still have freedom and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: you still travel and you still allow each other to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: do the things you want to do, and like, I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: didn't think that was possible, and I think it kind
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: of helped. I mean, I was speaking on behalf of you,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: but like, what did that bring up for you?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: It was really cool, Like it was cool to witness
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and like what you just said it was I've like
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I loved the dynamic that you and Steve have and
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: like it's so beautiful to witness you both to move
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: as a team.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: And I just love that.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Like you guys like are both helpful with the kids.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: You've got each other's backs, you make time for each other.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: You also make time for yourselves as well, Like like
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: a hobby, you literally will be like, yep, I'm tapped
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: out today, He'll take over and vice versa. And I
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: love witnessing you guys in that and like how yourselves
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: you still are, you know.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: And I think a huge part for.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Me around not wanting to have kids was a fear
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: of losing myself in motherhood, of being like, well, I've
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: witnessed people lose themselves in motherhood and be like wow,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: like is that what there is for me?
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Looking forward?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Like if I were to have kids, is that all
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: that's going to be for me? Am I just going
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: to be just a mother and not have any other
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: area of my life that's still important to me? And
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: that terrified me because I'm like, am I too selfish
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to be a mum? Like that's what I would think
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: because I'd be like, like, maybe I don't want to
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: have kids.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe I love my life, maybe I love my freedom. Yeah,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And I mean I.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Come from a family of five kids, Like I'm one
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: of five, so I've always been around big families and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I love the concept of a big family. But I
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: was like, am I willing to give up my freedom
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: in order to have that? And when I started having
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: the conversation, predominantly when I was with my last partner,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I think he allowed me to explore not wanting to
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: have children because his perspective was like ninety percent I
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: don't want kids, and I think that influenced my perception
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: on wanting to have kids a little bit. So I
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: started having the conversation with my parents like I didn't
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: think I'm gonna have kids, and they were like whoa, wow, whoa,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Like slow the brakes, like we don't want you to
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: make any rash decisions, like we don't want you to
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: miss out, and like it's a huge experience in life
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: and all of these beautiful things, you know, but it's
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: just so interesting what you're met with when you choose
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: or that.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: You voice you don't want to have kids, and it's
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: understandable the fear of losing yourself because it's a common
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: conversation on social media, and you work with women, so
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: you obviously hear a lot of women that have lost
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: themselves and don't do anything to look after themselves anymore,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and the kids come first, and all of that can
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: be true. But I've really loved challenging you on this
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: conversation of like, you get to have it all, yeah,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: and yes it's harder, Yes there's moments, and yes your
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: children are a priority of course naturally. However, I kind
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: of wanted to do it a little bit differently to
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. I wanted to still have my career.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I wanted to still have fun with my girlfriends. I
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: wanted to still go on date night. I wanted to
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: still travel overseas. I wanted to still be able to
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: have the freedom to go to the gym when I
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: want to go to the gym. I wanted to do
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: all of that whilst I was a mum, and I
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: was like, why can't I do that? I can do that,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: And it was something Steve wanted as well. He still
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: wanted to play golf, he still wanted to run his business.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: He went to Bangkok last week for a massive marketing
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: conference for a week, and I was like, fuck, yeah,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: go you know, and I've got the kids and we've
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: got each other. Every thing that I've wanted to keep
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: in my life I have. And yes there's been harder moments,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and yes there's sacrifices and then you know, these things
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you've got to put in place. But I really loved
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: having this conversation with you because I was like, if
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: you don't want to have kids, great, that's so fine.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Everyone's different. There's no judgment around that, and good on you.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: You know, plenty of people don't want to have kids.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I can see why. It's a big commitment, and you're
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: responsible for keeping these little humans alive for the rest
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: of your life. Yeah, but it also was like, you
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: can have children and you can still be Tiana. You
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: can still do your coaching, you can still do the podcast,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: you can still go on holidays, you can still be
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: fit and healthy, you can still go and like you
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: can still get to do all of it. Yeah, it's
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: been really cool to now see you like maybe actually
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I would like.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: To do that, not yet, but yeah, no, not yet.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: It's kind of shifted a BESI and it's funny.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: I remember you'd always be like, yeah, I don't think
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: that's true for you.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Pretending I'm being with you, but I definitely not those
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: comments you.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Did you have and you've always been like, of course,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: like if that's what feels true for you, like only
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: you are gonna know what that feels like. But then
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: also like after a few times I mentioned and you're like,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I just don't feel like that's true for you. I'd
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: feel like you're gonna want that. And it's interesting because
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: it has shifted slightly and now that I'm like seeing
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: someone new and he's just an incredible human, I've just
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: felt so safe with him for so many different reasons,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: so beautiful, and I've never really had that like oh
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: maybe you know, or like looking for different things of
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: being like oh I could experience that and I would
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: be happy to do that, or like I would feel
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: safe to guys having this conversation with you in the car,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: being like if it did go the way that like
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: it might potentially go, like I know that he would
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: have my back in the delivery room.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: You know, And I never want to love it.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I just never wanted to be with somebody who was
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: like fearful of those things, or like I don't want
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: to look at that, or like oh that's kind of gross,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: like that doesn't make a woman feel safe. No, And
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I realized that I get to have those things and
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: if I do want to experience that, I can and
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: it would get to be beautiful, you know. And you
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: really have challenged me on that of like getting to
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: have it all and not only seeing it for other
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: people but having it for myself.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just being like it doesn't always have to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: be evidence of everybody else having it all, but it's
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: like I get to have that too, yeah, Or the
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: question is why don't I get to have it all?
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: TiO, Yes, that's the question. Isn't it so cool? And
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: it's so exciting? Like, regardless of whatever you choose, it'll
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: be perfect for you. You'll have either direction you take.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: You'll have a beautiful life. I know. If you don't
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: have kids, you'll have a beautiful relationship and amazing friendships.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: You've got an incredible family, you're making such a big
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: impact on women's lives. Great, But if you have kids
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: as well, I think all of that will still exist.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Plus you'll have the joy of a little mini human
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: that's half you and half the person you love.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool as well, Like I don't get me wrong,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Like there's definitely a part of me that's like, oh
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: maybe if I were to just build my career and
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: have like people that I manage and I get to
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: look after and have this nurturing part of me with
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: my clients, I get that like need met right.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: And it's like looking from more of like a logical.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Sin, Yeah that makes sense though, being like, well, I
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: have all the people to take care of and nurture and.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: It's contribution, right, which is a high value for contribution.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I guess in a way, I was always like, oh
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: maybe I would be fulfilled if I just had that.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe you would and maybe I would, or
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: maybe I'll have five oh my gosh. Yeah.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: So it's a really interesting conversation and it's just funny
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: for the short period where I was like I'm not
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: having kids and I was like openly having that conversation
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: people like you don't want kids.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there is that reaction a lot, which I don't
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: think would feel good for someone that really has decided
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: that I want kids. I think people feel judged for
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: that yeah, and I hope I never came across as
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: judge it because it wasn't. I just no, not at all.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I felt a hesitation when you were saying it. Yeah,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: that's why I pulled you up and been like, I'm
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: not sure if that's one hundred percent tury for you.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: I think it was influenced.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: I know it comes from a good place you're sharing.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's probably a bit of fear there, which
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I totally understand so much fear. I was fearful of
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: having a second, like having my first.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Well, it's oh my god, I could imagine. I could
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: imagine there so many things that change when you get
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: thing changes. Yeah, I don't even really have context and
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: what that looks like.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: I can only assume.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: No one can say you yeah, they so what I've
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: seen it. You can hear it, but like until you
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: actually go through it, like everything changes. I feel like
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: for my first I've spoken so openly about this before,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: so anyone that's an OGE listener, you'd know. I really
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: struggled with my first child. And our relationship wasn't that strong.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: We weren't great at communicating, we were very dysregulated, our
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: careers were on paper so successful financially, everything was going amazing,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: but we weren't happy, and we weren't navigating parenthood. Well,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I wasn't coping. I was full in survival mode. I
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: probably on reflection, had post center depression, Like I really
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: wasn't coping. But then it was so cool. We had
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: obviously a big age gap, bigger than what we wanted.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: But it took a long time to conceive for Tala.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: But like everything's changed this time with Tala, but the better.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: She's only enriched our life with more joy, more play,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: more laughter, more memories, Like everything is better with her.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: It wasn't that with Taj. I was in a different season,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: a different place. I've gone to events before where we've
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: had like shame circles. Have you ever done that before,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: where you're like you hop in a circle and you're
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: at an event with a very safe space, and you
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: share what you're shameful about or what you feel guilt about,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: and you kind of burn it away. And something I
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: always carry is I wish Taj got This version of
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: me is a mom that Tarla got because I'm so
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: much more regulated now and I just feel like she
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: gets like a more advanced version. Kids changed everything, but
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: changed it for the better. And I think when people
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: say kids change things, you think for the worst. You
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: lose your sleep, you lose your body, you lose your
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: date nights, you lose your freedom, you lose your finances.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Like everything is hard, and like, yes, sometimes it is,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: but it's amplified with so much more love and joy
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and laughter. And it's like your perspective on that. But yeah,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I learned so much through the first time I went
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: through it, and I was so determined to do things
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: so differently with her, and we did and it's just
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: been so beautiful and time has flown by. Like I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: feel like most nights when we sit on the couch
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: and Tyler's just running around and Tag is playing with
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: her and we're just like sitting as a family, it's
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: just like this overwhelming sense of gratitude for like our
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: family and what these kids have brought to us, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: they just like, oh god, it it's so hard to explain,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: like just so much happiness and so much connection and
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: so much love, and its strengthened Steve and I because
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: it's forced us to get so much better at our communication,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: so much better at prioritizing our date nights, so much
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: better at making sure that we're supporting each other in
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: our dreams and our missions and our purposes, and we
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: get to do all of that. We're so much more
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: conscious and aware of all of that, which is because
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: of kids. So I don't think you lose anything from
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: having kids. I think you've got so much more to gain, which.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Is cool perspective to have as well. And also having
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: compassion for you know, the younger version of Ashy who
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: had Taj when you guys were younger and we're figuring
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: out how to be parents for the first time. Like
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: you said, no one can prepare you for what it's
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: like to be a parent, and like compassion that you
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: were figuring it out along the way.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I totally understand that, and I give that advice and
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I like totally believe it. But it's the one thing
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that I just really struggle with myself. I just look
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: back and I'm like, if it was just me involved,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: i'd move through it quick of it. Because it's him
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: involved that I felt like, not that he suffered in
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: any way, And he's the most beautiful kid, Like he's
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: so caring and intelligent and just aware and like he's
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: turned out amazing. But I just wonder if I was
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: who I was now back then, would that help him
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: in his future? You know, because we do things as
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: humans as parents that are going to impact our kids,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: especially from year zero to seven. That's where all of
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: their beliefs about the world and their selves. Like it's
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: those seven years are so important in print stage. And
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I'm like, where if I fucked him up because I
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: was anxious and stressed and not coping and so disregulated,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: like as if my little baby didn't feel when mummy
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: was anxious.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: You know, I was suicidal at a point. I wouldn't
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: get out of bed for days when I was going
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: through all that online trolling. Like how did the impact
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: him me not being able to show up for him? Yeah,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: because I was like not even wanting to be there.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: You know. It's always like there for me. And every
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: time I do an event and there's a shame circle,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: it's the same thing that comes up when I run
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the Ultimate Girl's Day Out with Levi and we do
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: a burning ceremony, It's the same thing that comes up
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: for me. It's like I just want to let go
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: of the guilt and the shame that I felt of
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: like not being the mom I am.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Now, I wonder what it would look like for you
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: if you just didn't have to punish yourself that any
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: if you weren't punishing yourself anymore, how would you show
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: up for Taja?
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know? And then I start to use that
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: language of like, oh, I shouldn't feel guilty because I
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: know better. I know that I was doing the best
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: that I could. You know, I know that younger actually
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: did what she could with the tools that she had.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: You and I know I was so stretched, and even
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: our business it was so heavily reliant on me back then,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: like the algorithm and the way things were, like it
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: was so reliant on me showing up online that even
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: when I was like in my deepest, darkest times, like
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I still had to get up and sell. I still
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: had to get out and promote and still had to
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: do this and film videos. I remember like two months
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: after giving birth to Taj, we were like ready to
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: bring out an ABS program and I was like still postpartum,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: like looking pregnant, and I had to do a video
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: selling an APPS program, and I was like, oh my gosh,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I just want to like go and rest and be
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: with my baby. You know, it was just a lot.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: It was a really hard season. But I don't know
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: how it would show up differently. I need to explore that.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: I need to mushroom ceremony.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: We're on it.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: What would our lives look like if we just let
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: go of the story that were holding onto the struggle story?
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Well, how is it serving me to hang on to
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: that story? It must be serving me in a way,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: otherwise I would let it go.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: This is a beautiful piece of evidence that healing is
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: not linear. It's not it's like nine years later, you know,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: like there are layers to it, and like if we
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: can be okay that this is forever work, we will
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: be okay when it comes up every time.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: And it's like every time you feel a little bit
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: of it, you heal a little part of your work.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: So true, that's just the deeper work here for you
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: is to just like constantly coming back into like forgiving
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: yourself and reminding yourself that you don't need to punish
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: yourself for that.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: It's like even mum guilt, Like I feel like I'm
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: very good at managing it. I don't feel it often
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: because I think guilty is when you feel like what
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: you're doing is wrong, yeah, or shameful. And I don't
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: feel that often, Like I don't feel guilty for going
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: date nights, going on holidays, or go to the gym.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Like I don't feel guilty for that because it makes
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: me a better mum. Yeah, because a lot of mums
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: really suffer with that. But this is the one thing
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: that just creeps back up. It's like, I'm still here, Yeah,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: you could have done better me. Yeah, what are you doing? Yeah,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: but it's not serving me. So I will report back
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to you guys and go to talk to Taylor about that,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: and we'll do a mushroom ceremony and see what comes up.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: By the way, I haven't done mushrooms yet, but it's
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: something I'm really excited to do. That'd be a cool podcast.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: That would be a very cool podcast.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I'm so keen for it.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: I'm going to take Ashy through your journey.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm so excited. I've done ayahuasca. You haven't died.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: I haven't done.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I actually booked to do Ayahuascar. I did, and then
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I pulled out because I was just in the trenches.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And everyone pulled out I just didn't go ahead.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it just was just wasn't the right night.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: It's gotta be the right time.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I feel like it.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: If it is meant to happen, it will, yes, and
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: if not, then it just won't help and it won't
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: work out.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: But it's on the horizon. We're both like ayahuasca ready
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and mushroom ready. It's just finding the right time. So
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I will put back to you guys. But those two
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: years ago, yeah, oh, so back to where you're out
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: with kids, so you're feeling like it's a maybe.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Now I feel definitely more open to me. I feel
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: more open to the idea. My sister's son, Luca, he's
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: so cute. Every time I look at him, I'm just like,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: you're freaking adorable, like an.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: The window this morning, like banging waving by so cute.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: And I just I've always with other people's children mostly,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I mean like I love them, I adore them, but
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to kind of give you yes.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Whereas with my.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Sister's son, because I've lived with him now, I've created
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: this bond with him that I'm like, I wonder what
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: that would be like for myself, And I've never had that.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Before in my life. It's incredible.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: So it's just interesting to see how I shift and change.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: And also now that I have evidence of like potentially
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: a long term, really beautiful, safe partner who's like your person,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: very provider, like takes care of me, like yeah, my
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: person like and he's.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Just an incredible man.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, Okay, cool.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Now that I have evidence of that, I'm like, now
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I have somebody that I might want to do that with.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And he shares the same values and he values freedom
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and travel and date nights and intimacy and all the
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: things that you really value. Like you guys have already
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: had those conversations around like how that would look if
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: you guys went down that path, which is so cool
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: because they're important conversations to have. Some partners are like, no,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: we would never get a babysitter or nanny. That's your
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: job as a mom. Yeah, I know a mom that
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: their partner it's more all around their culture, but they
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: don't get help him, like the mom is there to
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: be with the kids until they leave home, you know.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: So it's important conversations to have on how you would
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: raise children, what feels good for you both.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: It's good to know as while being on the same
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: page with those things and having those conversations early to
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: understand the person that it is that you're dating and
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: that you're seeing. And also when I mentioned, like, you know,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: very provide energy, Like the biggest thing that he provides
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: for me is like emotional safety, Like he has actually
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: said to me before, like, you don't need to be
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: anyone else than who you are, Like I don't want
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: anything else, Like I just want you to know that
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: you can be all of who you are here. And
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I actually love that version of you. And it's just
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: so like he sees me in so many different ways
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: that for us both we've had conversations what's the most
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: important thing to a relationship, and we both said safety safety,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: you know, And I've never actually had like I've had
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: like conscious partners, yes, but he actually is like more
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: emotionally intelligent than I am. It's cool to be led
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: in that instead of leading somebody else, because I've always
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: done that in my relationships. I've always led my partner
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: in that stuff, whereas I feel like he kind of
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: leads me. And it feels really nice to be in
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: a different dynamic like that with him.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I love that for you, it's really exciting. It's like,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: on the way up here, we were talking about genders
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and I was sad to Tiana how I always wanted
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: to be a boy. But I'm just like, really, you
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: do want girl?
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: I was like, no, I was surprised by that.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone is really surprised. I think we assume most
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: girls want to have a little girl. And obviously I
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: love my little girl. She is my everything and I'm
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: so grateful and it was meant to be her and
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I could not imagine anyone else. She is the light
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: of my life. But yeah, growing up, I'd always just
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: been more drawn to little boys, and I always said
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to my mum, like, I'm going to be a mom
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: of two boys. I heard a footy. My house's be
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: full of with this boy energy, and I'm just so
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: excited for that. I was shocked she came out a
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: girl and be honest, but I said to you, what
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: gender do you think you would like? And You're like, well,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I've never thought about that. I don't know. I was like, wow,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: it's crazy, you've never I'm guessing you don't have a
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: names list in your phone. I've had many.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I just thought like there would be times
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: where I'd be like, oh, maybe I want kids, and
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: then I'd look and then i'd have a little list,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: and then I changed phones and it would get Yeah,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like I'm not set on anything,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and I don't know. I fear having a girl will
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: be really triggering. Obviously it's a beautiful experience, right because
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: you'd get to learn and grow. But I'm like, imagine
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: being triggered by your daughter all the time because it's
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: obviously she's reflecting things back to you about yourself, Whereas
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like, I don't know, but I assume with
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: a boy, it's like you're not being triggered because you're
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: not being reflected yourself.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Factor, I don't know much as women, we are more emotional. Yeah,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like we've got more layers and we express
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: a lot more. So there's just a lot more. Then
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like men and boys are just more simple. Yeah,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: straight to the point it's like it's chill. Yeah. I
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: was scared of that as well, Say when they get
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: to teenage ys, when Taj goes to a party and
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: he's in jeans and a shirt, it's like, oh see
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you later, have a good time. You're not really worried
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: about sexual assault or them getting pregnant, or what they're wearing,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: how much makeup they have on, they're gonna go a
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You're worried about them getting in a fight, probably or
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: getting too drunk. Maybe with a girl. It's the intrusive
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: thoughts that I already get about my two year old
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: becoming a teenager. It's so scary. Having a girl is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: really scary.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I just would fear their safety so much, like.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: How much do we fear our safety now the time?
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: Literally, we had this conversation all the time.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: We're at the gym the other day and we put
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: a complaint into this guy.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, that guy was so bad.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: We've seen him multiple times. This is totally going off conversation,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: but like we were literally doing staff. He'd followed us
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: around the gym, to be honest, like each place we
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: went to for the different machinery. And then we were
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: doing step ups and I was like, we could see
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: in the reflection he was standing behind us, not even training,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: not doing anything, staring at us. And we could see
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: in the reflection as we're stepping up in like Tiana,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: he's looking at Oh my god, he's smiling, so put
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: my weight down. I turned around. I said, can you
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: please stop staring at us? Oh? And he's like, oh yeah, yeah.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I was like, stop looking at us, and then he
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: went into whatever he is doing. But it was just
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: like we fear our safety all the time in the
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: car park in the dark, Like I would even take
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: the garbage bin out at night, yeah, like no, it's
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: too dark.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I love walking in, but I don't go terrified. And
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: it's not something that I immediately think like that's something I
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: have freedom to do, because I'm like, well, I have
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: no I come put my headphones in. I can't leave
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: my hair all the way out, like I have to
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: turn even now in the day, I turned around and
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: I look behind me because I'm like always checking.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: What about that.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Time we went out for dinner and that kid ran out.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Of the gardens screwing.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: We both screamed that was terrifying.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: We like both were walking and it was getting dark
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: and we were just having a conversation.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Around suthing like this. We were like.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Something about being scared and being the dark and like
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: something to do with danger right for our safety, and
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: this kid who didn't look like a kid he was
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: taller than both of us, with a bike helmet on
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: and a full black outfit, ran out of the bushes
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: in front of us, us and in front of us
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: like to scare us, and we both like screamed and
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: like just freaked freaked out.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: It was terrifying. Yeah. I remember being at out Tony
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Robbins course and there was like probably five thousand people
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: in the room him and he was talking about this
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: how important safety is for women, and he said, hands up. Women,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: if you've been scared in the last seven days. Ever
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: put the hands up. Men, put your hand up. If
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: you felt scared in the last year, no one put
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the hand up. They did not put their hands up. Wow,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: women fear their safety all the time. And having a
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: daughter now, I am fucking petrified. And I asked Steve
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: to him, like, when's the last year we got scared.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: He's like, I can't even tell you. No, I don't
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: get scared. I'm like, god, yeah, And.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Like women's nervous system are like constantly in the final
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: flight because it just like and.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: We'll nurture to take care of our young as well,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: whether that's fur babies or your actual babies. Like if
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Steve's in the house, someone high alert. I am planning
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: my escape. I'm planning where my kid's going to be
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: hidden in case someone breaks in. Like it's horrible, but
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: have kids, It's great.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Seriously, don't have kids.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I know the prison cons Yeah. Oh, we just thought
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: that'd be a cool conversation talk about because I know
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: there's so many women out there that are on the fence,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: aren't sure. Yeah, I think that's the big conversation.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Is Like I've been on.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: The I don't know train, yeah, and I've been like
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: do I want kids?
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: Do I not want kids?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: And I've been doing that since I was like eighteen,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: you know, So that's like I've been doing this for
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: like almost a decade now, being like is this something
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: that I'm gonna want for myself or not? And either
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: way so amazing. Yeah, whatever it is that you choose,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: what I choose, beautiful. Ever it is that feels right
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: for you is perfect for you. But it's just accessing
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: discernment of like whether that decision is coming from you
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: or it's being influenced by people around you. And also
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: like really sitting with yourself, like have you asked yourself
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: the question and listen to your inner guidance of like,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: is this something that I might want? Would I regret
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: not having them? Getting clear with yourself yes.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us. If you love this episode,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: sharing around, don't get to join our Facebook forum. Just
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: search sheep rises on Facebook. Come and extend the conversation
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: chat with like minded women. It's beautiful and we will
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: see you in next episode. Bye bye,