Latest / Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers / 191: How to Enjoy The Holidays Even When Things go "Wrong" with Kellyn Legath

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191: How to Enjoy The Holidays Even When Things go "Wrong" with Kellyn Legath · Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers

• 0:21
  Well, hello and welcome back to my holiday episode.
• 0:23
  I am wearing my super cute unicorn Christmas sweater, right?
• 0:27
  Because why not?
• 0:29
  I'm feeling the holiday spirit.
• 0:31
  It's a great day.
• 0:32
  And today we're going to be talking about manuals, specifically manuals around the holidays.
• 0:37
  Now, manuals are basically our invisible list of instructions for how we think things should be and one manual that I have is that technology should always be reliable.
• 0:47
  That you should be able to do what it is that you need to do with technology, and that everything should just flow more smoothly because of it.
• 0:53
  Right?
• 0:53
  But that is not always the case.
• 0:56
  So I kind of can.
• 0:57
  Appreciate, even though I'm a little irritated that for today's episode, I was interviewing my friend and fellow coach Kellyn Legath, and we had some technology issues.
• 1:07
  We actually recorded twice.
• 1:08
  The first time the sound wasn't working.
• 1:10
  We were just on top of each other.
• 1:12
  It wasn't working well.
• 1:13
  So we re-recorded and I don't know what happened, but it only recorded 20 minutes of our 50, no, it was a full hour, a full hour conversation.
• 1:22
  I got only 20 minutes of Kelyn specifically for whatever reason, it recorded me the whole time.
• 1:26
  But listening to me talk to myself without knowing what the other person is saying, well, that's not super fun.
• 1:32
  So I could sit and be miserable and say, oh no, the podcast is gonna be completely ruined.
• 1:38
  I'm not gonna have this fun exchange for my holiday episode like I had hoped.
• 1:43
  I could have that in my manual that, well, that didn't work out the way it was supposed to, so therefore it's all ruined.
• 1:48
  But that would essentially be forfeiting my own emotional state to my circumstances.
• 1:53
  And that is not what we do here on the podcast.
• 1:56
  So for today, I'm introducing the podcast here.
• 1:58
  I'm telling you why it's gonna cut out briefly in my conversation with Kelyn.
• 2:01
  And then I will finish out the episode as a solo episode because guess what?
• 2:05
  Life happens.
• 2:06
  And while Kelyn and I did entertain the idea.
• 2:09
  Of recording for a third time.
• 2:11
  It's the holidays.
• 2:12
  You guys.
• 2:13
  Life is busy.
• 2:14
  In fact, I'm recording this on Monday.
• 2:15
  I have surgery Tuesday and then this drops on Thursday.
• 2:18
  So we are on a bit of a time crunch, and that is not the way it was supposed to be, but as we learn to recognize our manuals of how we think things are supposed to be, that's when we're able to step into radical acceptance.
• 2:31
  And when you're able to radically accept the way things are, rather than resisting it thinking, but no, it's supposed to be like that, that's when we find true joy.
• 2:39
  That's when we can actually act rather than react emotionally.
• 2:42
  And it is so much more empowering than making yourself the victim of circumstance.
• 2:47
  So without further ado, here is the 20 minute clip I have of me and Kellyn
• 2:52
  MaryAnn: Well, hello and welcome back.
• 2:54
  MaryAnn: I am so excited for today.
• 2:55
  MaryAnn: I have my friend and fellow coach Kellyn Legath with us today.
• 2:59
  MaryAnn: Hello Kellyn.
• 3:00
  MaryAnn: Hi.
• 3:00
  Kellyn: I'm so happy to be here.
• 3:02
  Kellyn: Be back.
• 3:03
  MaryAnn: So Kellyn and I help people to stay emotionally regulated while they're navigating the challenges of life.
• 3:08
  MaryAnn: And today we really wanted to dive into specifically the holidays.
• 3:12
  MaryAnn: It is really easy to assume that the holidays should look like a Christmas card.
• 3:16
  MaryAnn: But that is not always the case.
• 3:18
  MaryAnn: Life happens, seasons change, and sometimes the holidays that we yearn for, then they just seem just out of reach.
• 3:24
  MaryAnn: And more often than not, it's the fact that we're focusing so much of our mental energy onto how we think things should be, that we really struggle to accept and adapt to how things actually are.
• 3:35
  MaryAnn: It's kind of our thoughts that are keeping us stuck.
• 3:36
  MaryAnn: So today then Kellyn and I would love to kind of explore the idea of how to manage your mind in order to increase the chances of you having a fantastic holiday, because that's always the goal, right?
• 3:48
  MaryAnn: So, Kellyn, do you wanna launch into, holiday manuals?
• 3:51
  MaryAnn: We're gonna kind of use this as the backbone for today's episode.
• 3:54
  MaryAnn: So tell us a bit about what holiday manuals are and how they show up.
• 3:57
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 3:58
  Kellyn: You know, I first just wanna say a manual is something that will change your life if you understand how to use and implement it.
• 4:06
  Kellyn: I know I changed my life.
• 4:08
  Kellyn: I know it changed your life.
• 4:10
  Kellyn: but overall, I think manuals are this like gorgeous leather bound book that have these laminated pages.
• 4:18
  Kellyn: but basically it acts as the rule book for how others should behave so we can feel good.
• 4:24
  Kellyn: and the kicker about a manual and a holiday manual in particular is that it's often just in our minds, we don't share it with others.
• 4:33
  Kellyn: so it's, it's basically our expectation rule book, right, for how other people should act, how the holidays should be.
• 4:41
  Kellyn: and I like that word should, is so important for people to tune into in their own lives, as they're going, well, it should be this way or it should be that way.
• 4:48
  Kellyn: There's judgment under it.
• 4:50
  Kellyn: There is.
• 4:51
  Kellyn: so much frustration and pushing away the acceptance of what is.
• 4:58
  Kellyn: So.
• 4:59
  Kellyn: Mm-hmm.
• 4:59
  Kellyn: Um, I'll, I'll stop there because there's so much I can say around it, but tell me, your thoughts about that.
• 5:06
  MaryAnn: Yeah, I think that was a good explanation for it.
• 5:08
  MaryAnn: we all have these invisible list of instructions for how the world is supposed to work, right?
• 5:13
  MaryAnn: And like you said, I think if you notice those shoulds coming up, especially around the holidays.
• 5:18
  MaryAnn: Oh, well, they should be doing that.
• 5:19
  MaryAnn: They should be doing that, or I should be doing this.
• 5:21
  MaryAnn: We have manuals for ourselves as well, and sometimes it's like a skinny little folder, and other times it has multiple volumes and we're dragging around this whole wheelbarrow full of all of these manuals for how we think the world should be, but it really is kind of limiting when we have this list of instructions for, no, this is how it's supposed to be.
• 5:41
  MaryAnn: It can be kind of limiting, especially because everybody has different manuals.
• 5:45
  MaryAnn: Have you
• 5:46
  Kellyn: noticed that?
• 5:47
  Kellyn: Oh, totally.
• 5:47
  Kellyn: Totally.
• 5:48
  Kellyn: And I think we break it.
• 5:49
  Kellyn: As I'm hearing you talk, I'm like, oh, let's break this down even further.
• 5:52
  Kellyn: Right?
• 5:53
  Kellyn: There's like the manual for how the holiday should be.
• 5:55
  Kellyn: Like it should be, it should snow on the holiday.
• 5:58
  Kellyn: It should, everyone should be together.
• 6:02
  Kellyn: It should be full of fun and joy, which means nobody can feel any kind of negative emotion.
• 6:07
  Kellyn: Right.
• 6:07
  Kellyn: And then we have a separate manual for how the people that we're surrounded with during the holiday, how they should be acting.
• 6:14
  Kellyn: and that looks like, um, I mean, if, if anyone listening you, you're like, do I have a people for people?
• 6:20
  Kellyn: No, I don't think so.
• 6:21
  Kellyn: You can just ask yourself, think of someone who you're gonna interact with over the holiday, and think about what you want them to do or not do.
• 6:29
  Kellyn: think about, you know, like you don't want your dad to bring up politics or like, in my case, I want people to talk about politics.
• 6:36
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 6:37
  Kellyn: Um, it's like you don't want your mom to ask about your ex, you don't want your sister to bring her a dog.
• 6:42
  Kellyn: You know, it's really this, again, a rule book for trying to control the uncontrollable.
• 6:48
  Kellyn: And if I mm-hmm.
• 6:49
  Kellyn: If I shift us back into.
• 6:51
  Kellyn: talking about our holiday specific manual, it should snow on Christmas.
• 6:55
  Kellyn: Mm-hmm.
• 6:55
  Kellyn: Like if you have a really strong manual of like, it should snow on Christmas or doesn't feel like Christmas and then you can't control the weather, you know, it's silly.
• 7:04
  Kellyn: And, and like over said, it is.
• 7:07
  Kellyn: The truth is like you're gonna be miserable and then you're gonna be blaming the weather for how you feel.
• 7:13
  MaryAnn: Yep.
• 7:13
  MaryAnn: So true.
• 7:14
  MaryAnn: And it's so funny that you brought up snow.
• 7:16
  MaryAnn: Because we lived for a year in Texas and we did not get snow for Christmas.
• 7:21
  MaryAnn: And being a Utah girly, I was like, whoa.
• 7:24
  MaryAnn: How do people celebrate Christmas if there's no snow?
• 7:26
  MaryAnn: But it's funny because with those manuals, we don't often realize that we have them until hindsight, right?
• 7:32
  MaryAnn: So I didn't know that I had this manual that you're supposed to have snow for Christmas until I was in Texas and didn't have it.
• 7:38
  MaryAnn: And another one that came up for me was then when we moved to Kansas, there weren't any mountains and I thought.
• 7:44
  MaryAnn: How are you supposed to camp?
• 7:46
  MaryAnn: Where are you supposed to set up your tent if there's not a mountain?
• 7:49
  MaryAnn: And it's just so funny, these little things where it's like, well, that's not how it's supposed to be, but then we can apply it to the weather or the landscape and also to people.
• 7:57
  MaryAnn: So I'm really curious, I was thinking be fun.
• 7:59
  MaryAnn: If we could each, share, personal experience that we had specifically with holiday manuals.
• 8:03
  MaryAnn: Do you wanna share your experience first?
• 8:05
  MaryAnn: Yes.
• 8:06
  Kellyn: Um, so I had such a huge emotional blowout a few years ago.
• 8:12
  Kellyn: I can't remember where I was thinking about it before we got onto this, this podcast.
• 8:17
  Kellyn: And I'm like thinking, when was this?
• 8:19
  Kellyn: it had to be in like my mid twenties.
• 8:21
  Kellyn: I know I was living in New York at the time and it was one Christmas and my mom got me like glass Tupperware containers for the holiday that like as one of my gifts.
• 8:32
  Kellyn: Mm-hmm.
• 8:33
  Kellyn: I'm not joking when I tell you I cried like the entire day.
• 8:37
  Kellyn: Mm-hmm.
• 8:37
  Kellyn: I was so upset.
• 8:40
  Kellyn: I just had this manual of like, she should know what I want.
• 8:43
  Kellyn: she should get me something fun, not something practical.
• 8:47
  Kellyn: And then I went into, she should understand why I'm upset.
• 8:51
  Kellyn: So I had a manual on top of a manual.
• 8:53
  Kellyn: Here's what you did wrong, like the action that you took that was wrong.
• 8:56
  Kellyn: And now you don't know why I am upset and why this was the wrong gift.
• 9:02
  Kellyn: And I was, I was literally devastated the entire day.
• 9:06
  Kellyn: And I, I.
• 9:08
  Kellyn: So much of the work I do, I bring in the inner child, and I think at that time I didn't really have an understanding of it.
• 9:15
  Kellyn: and we, might get into this as we talk further, it wouldn't surprise me that when you're in your childhood home or when you're back with your parents, you almost automatically go into that like child role and your emotions from childhood show up.
• 9:28
  Kellyn: Like I was very much acting as much younger version of myself in how I was expressing, how I was like so stubborn and shut down and kind of stomping around the house like a teenager when I was, in my twenties.
• 9:43
  Kellyn: But this story for people listening like this was not about Tupperware containers.
• 9:48
  Kellyn: There was something so much larger at play here.
• 9:51
  Kellyn: There was such an underlying belief.
• 9:53
  Kellyn: It was a buildup of my own frustrations.
• 9:56
  Kellyn: that I hadn't communicated for years mm-hmm.
• 9:58
  Kellyn: Um, on what I needed from my mom or like things that I wanted.
• 10:02
  Kellyn: and I had my whole life I really had such a hard time expressing my needs, expressing my feelings, setting a boundary.
• 10:09
  Kellyn: So really this is an a, a deeper need to be seen, to be heard, to be understood, to feel attuned to, you know?
• 10:15
  Kellyn: Mm-hmm.
• 10:16
  Kellyn: Um, so I think until I understood manuals and regulation, tools and mindset work.
• 10:23
  Kellyn: I would've continued this year over year and just gone further and further away from my mother who thank God now I have such a wonderful relationship.
• 10:32
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 10:33
  MaryAnn: I really appreciate that example because it shows a few things.
• 10:36
  MaryAnn: First of all, it illustrates that we all have different manuals, right?
• 10:39
  MaryAnn: Because your mom probably thought, you know what?
• 10:42
  MaryAnn: My adult daughter would really love a practical gift.
• 10:45
  MaryAnn: She probably has, you know.
• 10:46
  MaryAnn: We have these stories in her head that that's probably exactly what I should get her and she's just gonna love it so much.
• 10:51
  MaryAnn: That's your mom's manual and then that yours was a different manual, but it's interesting in that particular story, and I'm curious if you can kind of share a bit around this, but it sounds like you had some story and some weight around it that if my mom got me Tupperware, that means what?
• 11:08
  Kellyn: Just like she didn't know me at all.
• 11:10
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 11:11
  Kellyn: She just like wasn't, I think I was feeling like, oh, she doesn't get it.
• 11:16
  Kellyn: Why would she get me this?
• 11:17
  Kellyn: I wonder if I was hoping for something in particular.
• 11:20
  Kellyn: And to be honest, I, I don't necessarily think that I was, I think there was just this sort of underlying need for, just wanting something really special or really unique so I could open it up and be like, oh.
• 11:33
  Kellyn: She gets me, she really sees me.
• 11:36
  Kellyn: She knows that I'm like really into clothing right now and she got me like the perfect top.
• 11:41
  Kellyn: Like that's what I wanted, right?
• 11:43
  Kellyn: Mm-hmm.
• 11:43
  Kellyn: But how could she have ever known unless I communicated?
• 11:47
  Kellyn: And I think that's really the root of manuals is like there's so much unsaid that builds up resentment and frustration and the story builds and builds and builds.
• 11:57
  Kellyn: It really is like poison for our relationships.
• 12:01
  Kellyn: Um, because what happens here is there's no communication, there's no telling people and so much, I'm sure people listening, will resonate with this around like, well, they should just know
• 12:13
  MaryAnn: Exactly Right.
• 12:14
  MaryAnn: We assume that everybody has the same manual.
• 12:17
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 12:17
  MaryAnn: My mom should know to not gift me Tupperware for Christmas.
• 12:21
  MaryAnn: She should know it's in the manual.
• 12:22
  MaryAnn: Didn't you?
• 12:22
  MaryAnn: Look?
• 12:23
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 12:23
  MaryAnn: And, It's because we have that belief that it keeps us stuck.
• 12:26
  MaryAnn: Isn't it just interesting to reflect on that, that, oh, I made Tupperware mean my mom didn't know me that well, that she didn't really care as much, that she wasn't as intuitive as to what I might need.
• 12:38
  MaryAnn: You made it mean a lot of things about the relationship and it's funny because right, like when you zoom out a little bit, it's like, okay, it's Tupperware.
• 12:47
  MaryAnn: But the stories we put around it.
• 12:49
  MaryAnn: Very interesting.
• 12:50
  MaryAnn: Right, totally.
• 12:51
  Kellyn: Like even as I'm saying it or retelling it now and hearing you, I'm like, oh, I got that upset over Tupperware.
• 12:57
  Kellyn: I could have just been like, I don't need this.
• 13:00
  MaryAnn: Mm-hmm.
• 13:01
  Kellyn: Or thanks, but I do mind if I return this and get something that I I'll use more often.
• 13:06
  Kellyn: Which by the way.
• 13:08
  Kellyn: Just a name.
• 13:08
  Kellyn: I use this Tupperware still to this day, it's been like 15 years.
• 13:13
  Kellyn: I actually just bought lids for it like a week ago.
• 13:17
  Kellyn: Like I use this Tupperware all the time.
• 13:20
  Kellyn: my mom, had an idea of her head of like, this will be helpful.
• 13:23
  Kellyn: Like, I wanna get her helpful gift.
• 13:25
  Kellyn: And I made it wrong.
• 13:27
  Kellyn: I made her choice wrong.
• 13:29
  Kellyn: And I, like you said, I gave it so much meaning, and it really put a damper on our relationship because I started having all of these like deeper beliefs of like, my mom doesn't understand me.
• 13:40
  Kellyn: She's not too mean to me.
• 13:42
  Kellyn: She, why would you get me this?
• 13:44
  Kellyn: Like, I, you know, probably even as I'm saying it, it just like, sounds like a teenager a little bit like kicking and screaming, like, you don't get it,
• 13:53
  MaryAnn: but that's what manuals do, right?
• 13:54
  MaryAnn: Like, it kind of does kind of come through that toddler mind a little bit.
• 13:57
  MaryAnn: But it's also interesting like number one, that you're still using that Tupperware to this day.
• 14:02
  MaryAnn: And also I have had conversations with my kids where I'm like, okay, um, girls, I'm not gonna be buying you clothes because i'm not gonna get you anything that you would like.
• 14:13
  MaryAnn: I don't know enough.
• 14:15
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 14:15
  MaryAnn: I know that the trends are changing and different fits and I'm like, so just know you guys can buy clothes for each other.
• 14:22
  MaryAnn: I can give you cash, but Yeah.
• 14:23
  MaryAnn: But isn't it interesting that that's my manual is don't do it?
• 14:27
  MaryAnn: And then maybe my kid does have a manual that, but maybe.
• 14:30
  MaryAnn: So it's just interesting to see how different those manuals can be.
• 14:33
  MaryAnn: and we're gonna get a little bit more into like how to resolve those moving on, but I thought I'd share my holiday manual story.
• 14:40
  MaryAnn: This one was just kind of silly as well.
• 14:42
  MaryAnn: It's always kind of surprising how they show up.
• 14:43
  MaryAnn: 'cause you only see them in hindsight, right?
• 14:45
  MaryAnn: Where it's like, oh, I did have an expectation there.
• 14:49
  MaryAnn: And I wanna share something quick before I jump into this.
• 14:51
  MaryAnn: There was something that a friend of mine told me once, and it was that expectations or unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments.
• 15:00
  Kellyn: Ooh, it's so good.
• 15:01
  Kellyn: So like.
• 15:03
  Kellyn: Tattoo that on your forehead.
• 15:04
  Kellyn: Good.
• 15:05
  Kellyn: Like everyone needs to remember that because it's the most It's so true.
• 15:09
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 15:09
  MaryAnn: Because it totally leads into these manuals because they're invisible.
• 15:12
  MaryAnn: They go unspoken, and that's mostly what it creates is just a lot of resentment.
• 15:18
  MaryAnn: So being curious about it, leading into that, communicating.
• 15:21
  MaryAnn: But anyway, so here's my silly manual story is, so for years we lived far away from family.
• 15:27
  MaryAnn: A thousand miles away.
• 15:28
  MaryAnn: It wasn't feasible, especially to travel in the winter months.
• 15:31
  MaryAnn: To come to be with family.
• 15:32
  MaryAnn: So I did have to work to let go of the manual that okay, I'm not gonna be with my family for the holidays.
• 15:38
  MaryAnn: And that was a bit of a challenge.
• 15:39
  MaryAnn: But then it was interesting that, you know, we lived in a military town.
• 15:42
  MaryAnn: We'd make new friends every year and one year then we got together with another family for Thanksgiving.
• 15:49
  MaryAnn: And in my manual then Thanksgiving dinner is at like noon, so then you eat lunch and you, that's the only meal you cook, and then you just eat leftovers for the rest of the day and in their manual.
• 16:03
  MaryAnn: Then Thanksgiving dinner was at dinner time.
• 16:05
  MaryAnn: It was at like five or six.
• 16:06
  MaryAnn: I thought, why are we doing it that way?
• 16:09
  MaryAnn: It was so interesting'cause I never told them that, well, no, like can we do it a little earlier?
• 16:13
  MaryAnn: That might work better for our family.
• 16:15
  MaryAnn: So not only did they have Thanksgiving later in the day, but they served fish.
• 16:19
  MaryAnn: I was like, what is even happening?
• 16:22
  MaryAnn: Like that's not how this is supposed to work.
• 16:25
  MaryAnn: But it was so interesting that these are things where it was just, I could have gone into it with, let's see how other people navigate the holidays.
• 16:32
  MaryAnn: But it was interesting to see how I was like, oh, this isn't right.
• 16:36
  MaryAnn: This feels so uncomfortable.
• 16:37
  MaryAnn: But again, I didn't know until hindsight that I had that expectation.
• 16:41
  MaryAnn: I just assumed that everybody would celebrate the same way.
• 16:45
  Kellyn: And the sentence that you said, this isn't how it's supposed to work, is such I don't think most people, like you said, manuals are kind of in hindsight we don't even see it.
• 16:55
  Kellyn: Yeah, it's really hard to see.
• 16:57
  Kellyn: It's like, no, it's, it's not supposed to be this way.
• 16:59
  Kellyn: And I think in that, you make it wrong.
• 17:02
  Kellyn: Just like I made my mom wrong.
• 17:03
  Kellyn: She made the wrong choice.
• 17:05
  Kellyn: She did the wrong thing, we make, they're doing it wrong.
• 17:08
  Kellyn: They're doing the holiday, the Thanksgiving dinner at the wrong time, and they're eating the wrong foods.
• 17:13
  Kellyn: Like we make other people wrong based on what we think is right.
• 17:18
  Kellyn: That is never communicated most of the time, not communicated.
• 17:22
  MaryAnn: And that really slides into our next talking point, which is how does having these manuals, especially over the holidays, how does that keep us stuck and miserable when we want to be joyous, right?
• 17:33
  MaryAnn: We wanna be happy for the holidays, so how do these manuals keep us stuck and miserable?
• 17:38
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 17:38
  Kellyn: I think there's two ways it keeps us miserable because it keeps us at the mercy of someone else being responsible for our emotions.
• 17:47
  MaryAnn: Ooh, that's so good.
• 17:48
  MaryAnn: Say it again.
• 17:49
  Kellyn: manuals keep us miserable because they keep us at the mercy of someone else being responsible for our own emotions.
• 17:56
  MaryAnn: So good.
• 17:57
  MaryAnn: I mean, because you don't think about it until it's really pointed out.
• 18:00
  MaryAnn: Like the way that you worded it is so good.
• 18:02
  MaryAnn: Because that really is kind of the definition of victim energy, right?
• 18:06
  MaryAnn: Totally.
• 18:06
  MaryAnn: So here we're wanting to feel jolly and bright, right?
• 18:09
  MaryAnn: That's what we want for the holidays.
• 18:12
  MaryAnn: But we're delegating our happiness and peace to, I'm only gonna be happy if all of these little check boxes in my manual get checked off, then I'll be happy.
• 18:23
  Kellyn: Totally.
• 18:23
  MaryAnn: Totally.
• 18:24
  MaryAnn: And really what, so no wonder we got miserable.
• 18:26
  Kellyn: Absolutely.
• 18:27
  Kellyn: I mean, really what it comes down to is control.
• 18:29
  Kellyn: And I think when people hear, I'm certainly, when I heard that for the first time, I was like, I'm not controlling.
• 18:34
  Kellyn: Mm-hmm.
• 18:35
  Kellyn: I like it.
• 18:36
  Kellyn: Didn't You don't feel, I think that's the thing with Manuels.
• 18:39
  Kellyn: It doesn't feel, they feel really fair.
• 18:43
  Kellyn: It feels like a really fair thing to ask.
• 18:47
  Kellyn: They're very logical.
• 18:48
  Kellyn: It's a very reasonable, like to us, like it feels very logical and reasonable.
• 18:53
  Kellyn: Um, hey, I don't want that person to say that thing.
• 18:56
  Kellyn: Like in your mind you're like, yeah, I don't, that's terrible.
• 19:00
  Kellyn: but what happens is we're like tethered to somebody else, and.
• 19:04
  Kellyn: It's like, no wonder everyone's miserable during the holidays.
• 19:07
  Kellyn: We're stressed and anxious and are holding our breath hoping they do or don't do what we want, or don't say what we want or don't feel how we want them to feel.
• 19:18
  Kellyn: and then we are constantly reacting rather than responding.
• 19:21
  Kellyn: And, and I just have to say, I'll never forget when I heard somebody say, I wish I could find the exact quote, but.
• 19:28
  Kellyn: She said, stop being surprised by people that have always acted a certain way and continue to act the way they always have.
• 19:36
  MaryAnn: Yeah, so good.
• 19:37
  MaryAnn: And we're totally gonna get into that.
• 19:38
  MaryAnn: I have a few specific examples that we're gonna go over, but Oh my goodness.
• 19:42
  MaryAnn: Yeah, because people are gonna show up the way they're gonna show up.
• 19:45
  MaryAnn: And so many manuals, and once you start to see it, you can't unsee it, but there are so many manuals that they always show up that way and they shouldn't show up that way.
• 19:55
  MaryAnn: They should know better.
• 19:56
  MaryAnn: And it's like, are you surprised?
• 19:59
  MaryAnn: Are you surprised they're gonna show up?
• 20:00
  MaryAnn: Like stop being surprised.
• 20:02
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 20:02
  MaryAnn: That they're showing up as themselves.
• 20:04
  MaryAnn: They're obviously not going to change, but you can.
• 20:07
  MaryAnn: You can change how you think about it.
• 20:09
  MaryAnn: You can change how you engage.
• 20:10
  MaryAnn: You can change how you show up.
• 20:12
  MaryAnn: But yeah, it is so interesting to just see, okay, what is it that I'm thinking?
• 20:15
  MaryAnn: Am I thinking they should change instead of I should change?
• 20:18
  MaryAnn: I thought it was really interesting too when you said they sound fair.
• 20:22
  MaryAnn: Our manuals sound fair to us, right?
• 20:25
  MaryAnn: We write our manuals according to what is going to make us feel really good.
• 20:29
  MaryAnn: So it does feel very good and fair to us, and we don't recognize that.
• 20:34
  MaryAnn: Oh, but somebody else might be having a completely different expectation around this.
• 20:37
  MaryAnn: They might have Thanksgiving dinner at dinner time.
• 20:40
  MaryAnn: They might prefer fish to Turkey.
• 20:44
  MaryAnn: They might, you know, there's these different things where we think, oh, they might feel like they're, that's fair and good.
• 20:50
  MaryAnn: How can I reconcile that?
• 20:51
  MaryAnn: So that leads into how does communication play a role here?
• 20:56
  MaryAnn: 'cause communication I think is really the way.
• 20:58
  MaryAnn: So if our manuals are invisible list of instructions, like communication is what kind of makes them visible again, right?
• 21:04
  MaryAnn: It helps us to see underneath that cloak of invisibility that, oh, I get it.
• 21:08
  MaryAnn: So, yeah.
• 21:09
  MaryAnn: So how can we use communication?
• 21:11
  Kellyn: You know, I'm gonna, turn us off onto a new road here really quickly and mm-hmm.
• 21:16
  Kellyn: Then talk about other people.
• 21:17
  Kellyn: But I think first and foremost, we have to communicate with ourselves.
• 21:21
  Kellyn: And you're like, what do you mean?
• 21:23
  Kellyn: What does that mean?
• 21:24
  Kellyn: You know, your body is communicating to you all the time in the form of emotions and physical symptoms, you know, but for the sake of this conversation, just talking about emotional wellbeing, right.
• 21:33
  Kellyn: When we're anxious, when we're stressed, when we're exhausted, it's saying, Hey, there's something to be looked at here.
• 21:40
  Kellyn: And in this sense, communicating with yourself, is really asking yourself like, what do I need?
• 21:46
  Kellyn: What am I thinking that feels really sticky right now?
• 21:49
  Kellyn: What am I feeling that feels really uncomfortable?
• 21:52
  Kellyn: And the reason this is so important is because if we don't know what we're feeling and we don't know what we're thinking, we blame everybody else.
• 22:01
  Kellyn: like you said, it's really a victim mentality around mm-hmm.
• 22:04
  Kellyn: Like, I'm feeling this way and it's because of this and I'm thinking about this and it's because of that.
• 22:11
  Kellyn: You know, it's always pointing all around, but if you can kind of tune into yourself and being like, I'm stressed.
• 22:18
  Kellyn: What am I doing to create some of my own stress?
• 22:21
  Kellyn: Right.
• 22:22
  Kellyn: I can give an example of like, you know, looking at the manual that you have for yourself during the holidays, right.
• 22:28
  Kellyn: I live on the west coast.
• 22:30
  Kellyn: My family's on the East coast.
• 22:31
  Kellyn: If I travel over 2000 miles to go home for family for the holidays, I have a manual for myself that I have to be in a good mood the entire time, or I'm a bad daughter.
• 22:43
  Kellyn: And like, think about how I would show up if, if that's my manual, that most of us, again, communicating with ourselves that we don't even know to like, take a look at if that's my manual for myself.
• 22:55
  Kellyn: The second I feel tired or I'm not in the mood to do something, I'm not showing up authentically.
• 23:02
  Okay.
• 23:02
  So that's about where things cut out with Kellyn.
• 23:04
  And so I'm gonna share a little bit more about what Kellyn and I discussed, and then I'll share a few more points along the way.
• 23:10
  But I found it really interesting to have this conversation about that expectation about how we are showing up, because we do have these manuals for ourselves, and we think, well, no, I should be able to travel 2000 miles and still be pleasant 100% of the time.
• 23:23
  Jet lag shouldn't affect me.
• 23:24
  I should be able to just be amazing 100% of the time because I sacrificed so much to be here with my family.
• 23:31
  So none of those other things should happen.
• 23:32
  I should be super human instead of human right.
• 23:36
  But that's really ignoring the fact that, yeah, we are multidimensional people and we're going to have many different emotions, especially when we're fatigued from traveling 2000 miles.
• 23:46
  Our manuals for ourself are often like that.
• 23:48
  We're going to pretend that, okay, well, I'm gonna hold myself to a different standard.
• 23:52
  Let yourself be human, and that means sometimes you're gonna be hangry, sometimes you're gonna have jet lag.
• 23:56
  Sometimes you're just gonna need to go take a nap and give yourself permission that, yeah, when I'm experiencing that human experience, it's going to be okay.
• 24:05
  I don't have to limit myself to only one emotional experience the whole time just because I'm with family.
• 24:11
  I also really love how Kellyn really kind of led into this idea of communicating with yourself first by tuning into your own body, recognizing, okay, what is happening for me right now?
• 24:21
  How am I feeling right now?
• 24:22
  Because right now it seems like my nervous system is really activated, so what is it that I need?
• 24:27
  It's using your emotions to identify your needs so that those needs can be communicated.
• 24:33
  So identifying, okay, am I feeling judged?
• 24:35
  Am I feeling tired?
• 24:36
  Am I feeling irritated?
• 24:37
  Am I feeling insecure?
• 24:38
  Am I feeling hungry?
• 24:40
  Identify the emotion.
• 24:42
  Use that as information to identify the need underneath that emotion and so that you can get that need met.
• 24:49
  And I get it.
• 24:50
  It takes a lot of courage to actually express what it is that you need, but I promise you, you will be shocked at how many more of your needs will be met as soon as you start to proactively let people know what it is that you need.
• 25:04
  Our manuals want us to assume that everybody should know, but when you start to communicate it, boy, everything changes.
• 25:12
  And honestly, it's that communication piece.
• 25:13
  So yes, communicating with yourself and also communicating with other people.
• 25:17
  That is what is going to make the invisible ink in your manuals visible is actually saying aloud what is in your manuals, or asking questions to other people to figure out what is in their manual rather than just assuming these assumptions go in both ways.
• 25:32
  Both assuming people should know what's in our manual, and also us assuming that we know what other people are thinking as well.
• 25:40
  So practice communicating, and even over communicating.
• 25:43
  Sometimes we think that we're communicating, but we're actually just being super duper subtle and we're not actually making the progress that we're hoping to.
• 25:52
  So be willing to ask the clarifying questions.
• 25:55
  Be willing to ask.
• 25:56
  Okay.
• 25:56
  Help me understand, were you meaning that you would like it this way or that way?
• 26:00
  Ask the questions.
• 26:02
  I get it.
• 26:02
  It does require vulnerability, but it is so much better.
• 26:06
  Okay.
• 26:06
  The next thing I want you to think about is how to make showing up measurable for you.
• 26:11
  This kind of goes off of the whole jet lag situation, right?
• 26:13
  It's not realistic to say, I'm gonna show up a hundred percent of the time.
• 26:17
  Because we're human.
• 26:18
  So I want you to really identify three things that can make it measurable for you so you'll know how you're showing up well.
• 26:23
  Maybe this is when you're traveling to be with family, maybe this is you showing up at the holiday party, whatever it is.
• 26:30
  Before going into that exchange, I want you to think of three things that will make it measurable for you that you showed up well.
• 26:37
  So this might mean, okay, when I show up at the party, I'm going to smile and be engaging and give the hostess a compliment.
• 26:45
  That will be one way that I'll know I'm showing up.
• 26:46
  Well, I'm also going to make a point to engage with three different people and ask them each three questions.
• 26:52
  Okay.
• 26:52
  Make it very, very measurable for you.
• 26:54
  You do not have to talk to everybody at the party.
• 26:56
  Your brain is gonna say that If you don't talk to every single person at the party and show up well in every single exchange that you failed, that's all or nothing thinking it is not helpful.
• 27:05
  So identify three things that will let you know that yes, I am showing up well.
• 27:11
  So now I wanna share with you a few specific examples that have been sent in from listeners on social media.
• 27:16
  If you are not following me and Kellyn on social media, you should do so.
• 27:20
  You can find me at maryannwalker.life on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.
• 27:24
  And is at Daydreamer Coaching.
• 27:26
  So come and follow us.
• 27:27
  When you engage with our content, it really helps us to know how best to show up for you.
• 27:31
  So come and find me there, but I'm gonna share a few specific situations that were shared around social media and then we'll kind of talk about them.
• 27:38
  So this first person wrote in and they said, yeah, so I have this one family member that every time we get together for the holidays.
• 27:44
  All they wanna talk about is my relationship status.
• 27:47
  I'm a business owner.
• 27:48
  I have so many things going on and projects in the community, and I'm enjoying my life, but they want to minimize me down to my being single.
• 27:56
  Okay, now first, realize that you have some big assumptions that you are assuming out of the gate, that they only want to know about your relationship status.
• 28:06
  But honestly, they might not know what else to ask.
• 28:08
  If this is a family member that you only see once or twice a year, they might not know about those other projects.
• 28:14
  So recognize the assumptions that are coming in and also recognize the manual that you have for this person that they should be asking the other questions.
• 28:22
  So when we have a manual for an individual, we really wanna dig in our heels and say, no, they should be different.
• 28:28
  They should change.
• 28:30
  Meanwhile, we're not changing.
• 28:32
  So I want you to think a little bit about how do I usually engage when they ask me that question of, oh, are you seeing anyone?
• 28:38
  What comes up for me and how do I show up?
• 28:41
  And knowing that, okay, I have the information, that more than likely I'm going to be asked that question.
• 28:46
  How do I wanna show up differently?
• 28:49
  There's a few different things that you can do here.
• 28:50
  Okay.
• 28:51
  My absolute favorite one is redirecting the conversation so you can answer their question with a polite, actually, no, I'm not seeing anybody right now, but I'm really enjoying this project that I'm working on.
• 29:01
  Can I tell you about it?
• 29:03
  That's going to help you to redirect that conversation in a kind way and still be able to keep the line of communication open while minimizing that anger and resentment.
• 29:11
  Okay, so recognize that, yeah, you do have this belief that they should not be the way that they are.
• 29:16
  And also it gives you such huge benefit to know that, hey, I already know how they're going to show up.
• 29:22
  That gives me information so that I can be prepared instead of pretending to be surprised every time they show up the same way.
• 29:30
  Right.
• 29:31
  Don't be so shocked when somebody's showing up the same way they always have, simply because you hoped that they would show up differently.
• 29:38
  So just to sum up, redirect the conversation.
• 29:40
  Tell them what things bring you joy.
• 29:42
  Give them options for the conversation for other subjects that you can talk about.
• 29:46
  You have more control over the situation than you give yourself credit for.
• 29:50
  Okay?
• 29:50
  So use the information that you have so that you can show up differently.
• 29:54
  Okay, so this next one, I'm gonna kind of be blending together a few different scenarios because honestly, this came from every generation.
• 30:01
  This came from the young adult who has just moved out of the home, from the young parent, from the grandparent, every generation basically sent in the same question, which is a.
• 30:10
  Am I supposed to invite them or are they supposed to invite me?
• 30:12
  Why aren't they inviting me for the holidays?
• 30:14
  We have so many assumptions over this, right?
• 30:16
  And so some of the young people are thinking, well, no, it would be easier for them to travel to me.
• 30:21
  So they should just know and say, Hey, we're coming to help out with Christmas.
• 30:25
  And then the older generation is likewise thinking, well, it would just be so great to have everybody home for the holidays.
• 30:31
  Everybody has different expectations around this.
• 30:34
  And again, the key is to identify that, hey, I do have an expectation here, and be willing to communicate it.
• 30:41
  Okay.
• 30:42
  This is as simple as asking a question.
• 30:44
  For example, you could say, Hey, I would love to see you over the holidays, right?
• 30:47
  That's making a request.
• 30:49
  What might that look like?
• 30:50
  Is that a possibility?
• 30:51
  Would my place or your place work better?
• 30:53
  Be willing to have those conversations.
• 30:56
  Let go of just assuming that they should do something or that you should do something, or who should initiate what, but be willing to have a conversation about it and communicate about it so that you can both get on the same page of your manuals.
• 31:08
  Right?
• 31:09
  Make that invisible ink visible by actually expressing what it is that you want.
• 31:13
  And yeah, it might be a little bit uncomfortable in the beginning because it's not what you're used to, right?
• 31:19
  But be willing to lean into that discomfort and ask those questions.
• 31:23
  It's gonna make it significantly more likely that you can get what it is that you want.
• 31:27
  Okay, so here's another write-in as somebody wrote in talking about basically kind of the emotional whiplash that they were experiencing because they really wanted to be happy and cheerful for the holiday, and they were also super aggravated with their siblings and the discourse that was happening in the group chat.
• 31:42
  Now, this one is quite an interesting one too, right?
• 31:44
  Because there's multiple manuals happening and that's usually the case.
• 31:49
  So not only does this person have the manual for themselves that well, I should be happy and cheerful for the holiday, but they also have in their manual that, and my siblings should play nice over the holidays.
• 31:59
  Now, we don't know much about these siblings.
• 32:00
  We don't know how they engage throughout the rest of the year, but I want you to get curious about am I holding everybody to a different standard simply because it's December.
• 32:09
  Because so often that's exactly what we do.
• 32:12
  We don't only have manuals for individuals or for group settings or for holidays, but these manuals can change depending on what time of the year it is.
• 32:20
  You might not care that your siblings are having a little hissy fit in the group chat if it's like in the middle of March.
• 32:26
  Right?
• 32:27
  But you have it in your head that because it's December, things should be different.
• 32:33
  I also want you to notice that something is happening where you're making your joy and contentment conditional upon your siblings showing up well, and that is very much forfeiting your own happiness.
• 32:45
  So notice that, that, hey, it's okay for my siblings to be my siblings.
• 32:49
  I do not have to engage in the conversation.
• 32:52
  I do not have to be the peacemaker.
• 32:54
  I don't have to solve the problem.
• 32:56
  And I can still find things to be joyful about.
• 32:59
  Okay.
• 32:59
  Notice that there's a lot more things going on that you can be joyful about, even if your siblings aren't engaging in the way that you would really prefer.
• 33:06
  Okay?
• 33:07
  Okay.
• 33:07
  Here's another write in.
• 33:08
  This person was experiencing what they called performance pressure.
• 33:12
  They were wanting to show up as being really festive and bright, but they were also feeling pretty grinchy at the same time.
• 33:17
  So this is kind of similar to the previous one.
• 33:19
  But they were just feeling really overwhelmed with all of the things happening for the holiday.
• 33:23
  And oh my goodness, when I read this, I was instantly taken back to when all of my kids were in elementary school.
• 33:28
  I have three kids and they were in three different grades, and I remember the overwhelm of, oh my goodness.
• 33:34
  Now it's expected that I go to three separate classroom parties.
• 33:38
  There's three separate Christmas concerts.
• 33:40
  There's all of the friend parties, neighborhood parties, church parties, community events, it was all over the place and I just felt so overwhelmed.
• 33:49
  And I really wish that young mom me had had coaching at that time.
• 33:53
  Because what I really wish that young mom me would've really known is that, yeah, I get it.
• 33:58
  There's so much going on.
• 33:59
  I remember feeling that burnout.
• 34:00
  I remember thinking, ah, I just wish that I had one free night, and I'd point out to her that so many of these things are optional.
• 34:08
  I get it that you have so much pressure on yourself to not only participate in all of those events.
• 34:12
  But to also make sure that the kids make gingerbread houses, to also take the kids sledding to also, you know, we have this list for ourselves in addition to everything else, and it's all optional.
• 34:24
  All of it is optional.
• 34:26
  It's okay to decline an invitation to a party.
• 34:29
  It's okay to not show up at every single event.
• 34:32
  And I think it's also really helpful in this scenario to utilize the parts work, right?
• 34:37
  So recognizing, okay, a really big part of me is so excited to go to my child's kindergarten Christmas concert, and it's their first one ever, and it's so adorable, and about 90% of me is really happy to be there.
• 34:52
  The other 10% is also knowing that, oh my goodness.
• 34:56
  And as soon as we finish that one, they're gonna clear the room and then they're gonna do the next grade, and then they'll clear the room and do the next grade.
• 35:02
  And I'm in this for the long haul.
• 35:05
  I'm going to be here for three concerts, and I'm not looking forward to that part.
• 35:10
  That's okay.
• 35:11
  Okay.
• 35:12
  Again, remember, you're human.
• 35:13
  It's okay to have all these different emotions.
• 35:15
  You do not have to be happy and pleasant 100% of the time.
• 35:19
  It's okay to say no and remind yourself that this is a choice, and right now I'm choosing this.
• 35:25
  Simply reminding yourself that you have a choice in the matter makes everything feel so much more doable.
• 35:32
  We have this belief that, well, I should be able to be everything for everybody 100% of the time, but it's okay to let yourself be human.
• 35:41
  Okay.
• 35:41
  Now one other thing I really want you to think about is let's just assume for a minute that, okay, I've identified what I want, I've recognized what I need, I've communicated it, and we're still not on the same page.
• 35:52
  Now, ideally, communication is gonna get everybody on the same page in our manuals, right?
• 35:57
  But if you're still not on the same page, what do you do?
• 36:00
  I communicated so much with my technology and I still couldn't get back the full interview.
• 36:05
  Maybe you find that you're communicating with a family member, you're still not able to get on the same page about what the holidays look like.
• 36:11
  Life happens and things are out of our control.
• 36:14
  Sometimes we think if I can identify the manual, then I can control everything.
• 36:19
  now, if that were true, we would all be blissfully happy all the time.
• 36:21
  But because we all have different manuals in our heads, more often than not we're gonna have to negotiate or we're gonna have to learn how to navigate negativity, emotion.
• 36:30
  So practice that.
• 36:31
  Practice allowing yourself to feel negative emotions, to recognize that, boy, I'm feeling so frustrated.
• 36:38
  I'm feeling so frustrated right now that things aren't working out in the way that I wanted to.
• 36:41
  Now, for me, with this episode, yeah, I did have to take some time to feel my feelings, and initially when I saw that it did not record, I sent a crying emoji to Kellyn and said, oh my gosh, I just wanna cry.
• 36:53
  And of course when she saw that, she said, I know'cause it was so good, right?
• 36:56
  And I was like, no, it's because it's gone.
• 36:58
  And I had to feel my feelings on it.
• 36:59
  I had to take a night to sleep on it.
• 37:02
  And as you are intentional about feeling and processing your emotions, that's when you can come back the next day and say, okay, and now what do I wanna do?
• 37:09
  Knowing some things are gonna be out of my control.
• 37:11
  What can I do now?
• 37:13
  And it puts you in the driver's seat of your life.
• 37:16
  When we have our manuals, they make us wanna think that we do not have a choice in the matter, but we do.
• 37:21
  Remember you are choosing this.
• 37:24
  Okay.
• 37:25
  Now, just to kind of recap, first of all, notice what your own manuals are and notice that they show up by, okay, well this is the way things"should" be or the way that things are"supposed" to be.
• 37:34
  Come to recognize your manuals.
• 37:36
  And then number two, do not assume that everybody has the same manual.
• 37:39
  Communicate and over communicate to get on the same page.
• 37:43
  Number three, figure out how to make things measurable for you that you are showing up well.
• 37:48
  Number four, identify and make requests for what it is that you want.
• 37:52
  And number five, if you're unable to get on the same page, practice that emotional regulation.
• 37:58
  Okay?
• 37:58
  And it's okay, do you do this, this, and that?
• 38:00
  Thinking that, okay, well this percentage of me is really feeling good about it and this part of me is not feeling good about it, and that's okay.
• 38:07
  So just as a reminder, both Kellyn and I are filling up our calendars for the new year.
• 38:11
  So reach out if you'd like support.
• 38:13
  If you have discovered listening to this that, oh my goodness, I have so many manuals and I would like to feel more empowered in my life.
• 38:20
  Come and work with us.
• 38:21
  You can find all of our contact information in the show notes.
• 38:24
  You do not have to navigate this alone.
• 38:26
  Alright, well, I hope you have a great holiday and let's talk soon.
• 38:29
  Bye now.