Latest / Sharp Strategies Sweet Success / #58 - Inside Legal Marketing with Matthew Konecky: Newsletters, SEO, and YouTube Strategies

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#58 - Inside Legal Marketing with Matthew Konecky: Newsletters, SEO, and YouTube Strategies · Sharp Strategies Sweet Success

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  I think what I've learned over the last five years of having
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  someone who's been a
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  person that I've relied on is they can't be everything that I
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  want them to be.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's my issue, not theirs.
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  SPEAKER_01: And if anybody,
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  SPEAKER_01: if they're watching,
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  I apologize for not realizing that you can't create and edit
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  videos and be an SEO
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  SPEAKER_01: specialist and understand Canva
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  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: Strategies.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sweet success.
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  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Sharp Strategies Sweet Success.
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  This is your host,
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  Tiffany Swedenski,
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  and today I am talking with Matthew Konecki.
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  Matthew is a personal injury DUI and criminal defense attorney
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  in Florida.
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  SPEAKER_00: I met him many years ago through GLM,
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  SPEAKER_00: so we've talked a few times kind of in between over the last few years.
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  SPEAKER_00: He's a great guy and doing a lot of cool stuff at this firm.
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  And so I'm going to turn it over to him to finish out the
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  introduction and to tell
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  SPEAKER_00: you a little bit more about what Matthew Konecki is doing right now.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Tiffany.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm a internal defense DUI attorney in South Florida.
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  SPEAKER_01: I also do personal injury.
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  Personal injury kind of came about as when I first started
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  practicing law,
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  SPEAKER_01: the firm I was at,
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  SPEAKER_01: I had worked at in law school.
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  SPEAKER_01: When they hired me after I had interned with them,
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  SPEAKER_01: they said,
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  SPEAKER_01: oh,
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  SPEAKER_01: by the way,
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  SPEAKER_01: we do personal injury.
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  SPEAKER_01: Learn it.
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  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what we're doing.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that's always been a part of what I do.
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  SPEAKER_01: But,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: because you're in marketing,
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  SPEAKER_01: you understand with personal injury to do heavy duty marketing.
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  SPEAKER_01: to keep up with the Morgan and Morgans of the world.
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  And whoever's listening,
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  I'm sure there's the local gorilla in each market.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's very tough in that aspect.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I built a really good client base with my criminal and DUI defense,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I internally market to them.
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  And it's had a nice aspect of my practice to be able to
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  maintain personal injury that way.
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  SPEAKER_00: So how are you internally marketing to your list right now?
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  What are you doing to reach the people who have already worked
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  with you,
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  already contacted you?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's just actually contacting the list.
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  SPEAKER_01: So every week we have an e-blast and we've been maintaining that
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  SPEAKER_01: since about 2020.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we've got a list of over 3,000.
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  SPEAKER_01: We also have a mailed newsletter that goes out every other month.
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  SPEAKER_01: It used to be every month, but every other month.
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  SPEAKER_01: So they get some information.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just...
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  I'm a lawyer and this is the law and I'm boring and I'm,
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  you know,
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  all of that.
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  SPEAKER_01: We, you know, there's usually a good cover story.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  we put some stuff that's just interesting to people and some
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  guides that we have on
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  SPEAKER_01: our website.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then my wife does a recipe.
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  SPEAKER_01: So if, you know, people actually see it like that.
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  I had one of my clients tell me that she would save my
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  newsletter and ship it over to
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  SPEAKER_01: Her daughter,
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  who lived in Amsterdam when my wife was doing vegan recipes
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  because her daughter
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  SPEAKER_01: was vegan.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's something that's actually,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how many people enjoy getting it,
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  SPEAKER_01: but certain people did.
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  And I will say that that particular client would send me and
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  does still send me cases.
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  So it's a touch that actually has more effect than probably
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  just about anything else.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: that's the kind of invisible touch of marketing sometimes,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  they're on your email newsletter list and we can only see the
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  data that we can see
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  SPEAKER_00: in our CRM.
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  SPEAKER_00: So we don't really know if they're reading or enjoying.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: usually it's only when they do outreach to us that they say like,
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  SPEAKER_00: oh,
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  SPEAKER_00: I love your newsletter or when they refer us a case.
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  So my question about just another question about your list is
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  how do you end up
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  SPEAKER_00: deciding who goes on the list?
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  Are you just putting everyone or are you guys discerning like
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  types of person,
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  SPEAKER_00: types of case,
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  SPEAKER_00: anything like that?
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  With the email blast,
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  it's anybody who's contacted our office and filled out a form.
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  SPEAKER_01: Our intake is very good at making sure we secure an email address.
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  SPEAKER_01: And even if it's someone who doesn't,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: ultimately hire us,
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  SPEAKER_01: chances are they may need us again in the future or,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: where they thought they didn't need a lawyer,
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  SPEAKER_01: they realize they do so.
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  they we make sure that we capture that and it's not you know we
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  don't let that go
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  until they unsubscribe so that's how we get that now with the
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  mail newsletter we
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  focus that on previous clients people who want to opt into that
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  so through linkedin
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  when i get my mail newsletter i actually make a digital copy of
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  it and put it
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  SPEAKER_01: online and i say if anybody wants it
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  SPEAKER_01: you know, contact me.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we'll add people that way.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then some vendors that we use maybe for the PI,
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  SPEAKER_01: if a doctor's office contacts us,
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  SPEAKER_01: we'll give them that so that we're top of their mind too.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you guys are doing the email newsletter and the print newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um,
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  SPEAKER_00: both, or are you just doing the email newsletter?
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  So the emails is like a weekly e-blast and then a separate
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  newsletter that is
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  SPEAKER_01: completely different.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's more like what you see,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to compare myself to bland marketing,
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  SPEAKER_01: but you might get like your local realtor sends you a,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: here's a four page newsletter,
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  SPEAKER_01: but every once in a while you just grab and go home,
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  SPEAKER_01: what's in here.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then next thing you're like, ah, I'm reading this.
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  SPEAKER_01: What am I, you know, but that, but you know, and
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  I like to think that I had more impact than just the cold call
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  reel of you who sends out stuff.
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  SPEAKER_01: So they physically get that.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  I can I can sort of hear other attorneys ask me this question
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  just based on what
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  SPEAKER_00: you're talking about.
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  SPEAKER_00: But like,
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  so how do you decide like what content is good for like your
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  criminal contacts,
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  SPEAKER_00: personal injury contacts?
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  SPEAKER_00: Are you even writing to, you know, those specific groups?
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  SPEAKER_00: Are you making content for everyone?
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little of everything, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: So, um, because you can't let them forget that you're a lawyer.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's not the point of doing that.
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  So,
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  but you also don't,
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  there's nothing more boring than,
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  you know,
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  I want a case.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's huge.
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  SPEAKER_01: I get result.
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  SPEAKER_01: I, that, that stuff's just annoying.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I try to put my personality into it,
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  SPEAKER_01: The emails are going to be a little bit more targeted so that people see,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: I try to drive them to my website or my YouTube channel.
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  SPEAKER_01: The newsletter is more just it's personal.
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  It's because most of those people have hired me already or have
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  more of a deeper connection.
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  And then I just kind of go,
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  you know,
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  push the more personal approach so that they have.
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  SPEAKER_01: better comfort level so that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: even if they don't need me again,
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  SPEAKER_01: they can refer and they feel like they do have a connection.
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  SPEAKER_01: The funniest thing with the email newsletter,
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  one of the biggest responses that I ever got from it was we did
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  a cover story about
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  SPEAKER_01: how,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: It was almost felt,
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  SPEAKER_01: felt taboo,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I,
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  SPEAKER_01: I like pro wrestling and it was just my love of pro wrestling.
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  SPEAKER_01: And from,
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  SPEAKER_01: I was a little kid and my mom and my grandfather would take me to the,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: the matches and how I love it today.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I, I,
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  I'll tell you,
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  I got emails from people coming out of the world where,
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  oh,
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  that was so awesome.
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  SPEAKER_01: I like it too.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you'd be really surprised.
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  SPEAKER_01: People might be surprised that I like it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And no one should be surprised anymore.
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  SPEAKER_01: It is a billion-dollar industry.
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  SPEAKER_01: WWE is signing contracts with ESPN, Netflix.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is a mega, mega entertainment industry.
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  SPEAKER_01: But there was always that...
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, there was that taboo like, oh, you like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's fake.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, come on.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not... I'm a fan.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like,
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  SPEAKER_00: I remember as a kid,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: Stone Cold Steve Austin,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I just had a bunch of boy cousins,
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  SPEAKER_00: and we'd play the wrestling video games and stuff like that,
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  SPEAKER_00: so I didn't have a choice.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like, I had to be in that universe when I was younger.
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  SPEAKER_00: Kind of disconnected from it,
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  SPEAKER_00: and then,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: was with my brother-in-law,
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  and we were just hanging out at his house and trying to figure
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  out what to watch,
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  SPEAKER_00: and it ended up being pro wrestling.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was one of those moments where it was like, do you like this?
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I can I can sit with this.
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  And we were both like unsure and ended up like watching it for
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  an hour or so and
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  SPEAKER_00: talking about it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And funnily enough,
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  SPEAKER_00: like just this week,
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  I was talking to another attorney who was telling me I'm a huge
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  fan of pro
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  SPEAKER_00: wrestling.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, really?
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's one of those like, guilty pleasures, I think.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so that's just really fun.
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  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to ask you because you mentioned YouTube.
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  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing for YouTube right now?
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  SPEAKER_01: So we are answering questions, the ones that people ask us all the time.
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  And I will shoot video,
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  try to get it out as we try to have a weekly rollout on that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we have a weird kind of pause.
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  I've gone through some marketing people in my office,
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  and finding a rhythm has been difficult.
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  SPEAKER_01: We are now kind of instead of having one person,
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  we're having several different people have their sub
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  specialties do this stuff.
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  SPEAKER_01: But we're using a service because I actually recorded.
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  SPEAKER_01: I have five videos in the can, but I can't edit it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to optimize it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I can't do that.
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  So we're going to have someone do that and then we can upload
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  it and get it going.
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  SPEAKER_01: But we'll still have another month of content.
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  SPEAKER_01: But we always make sure we get it out and get it going.
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  SPEAKER_01: And,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: listen,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's not the biggest thing in the world for me,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I've got,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: I've got a video with 100,000 views.
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  SPEAKER_01: I've got a couple other that are up there.
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  SPEAKER_01: But that was one when I started.
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  I didn't think that it was going to be something that people
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  would call me and
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  SPEAKER_01: retain me from,
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  SPEAKER_01: but it has.
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  SPEAKER_01: So...
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  SPEAKER_01: That was kind of a surprise.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to say it's a free marketing because I'm not paying,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I have to pay someone to edit and I have to take my time.
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  SPEAKER_01: So there's a cost involved.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: and as somebody who's making content on the regular myself,
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  SPEAKER_00: my team will edit videos for me.
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  SPEAKER_00: And mercifully, my edits aren't that complicated.
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  SPEAKER_00: So my team isn't like a full suite video editing team, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: So all the new video editing tools are really, really useful.
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  But some good advice I heard on LinkedIn actually just recently
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  also was that for
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  SPEAKER_00: content,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's better to shoot for a B plus than an A plus.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um,
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  cause you really don't know what resonates and just like your
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  example with the
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  SPEAKER_00: email newsletter,
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  SPEAKER_00: you had no idea that would take off.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  sometimes you put together a quick video or an article and then
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  people end up
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  SPEAKER_00: loving it and it's just hard to predict.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so like,
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  SPEAKER_00: just making content and getting in the habit of making content is just so
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  SPEAKER_00: important.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's so easy,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's easier in my mind to sit down and record a video,
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  SPEAKER_00: just you talking about something you already know.
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  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, just edit it later.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's easier than writing, at least in my book.
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  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think you can.
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  I'm so much better than talking to answer a question than it is
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  to think of a
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  SPEAKER_01: script and make sure I hit every single bullet point.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's always been difficult for me.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I don't typically do it.
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  We do have,
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  you know,
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  when I want to do more of a longer form video,
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  I will
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  SPEAKER_01: create something.
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  SPEAKER_01: I do have a teleprompter, but even that I can't even keep up with it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So as long as I'm seeing the bullet points and I'm hitting it,
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  SPEAKER_01: I definitely feel like put up some B plus material,
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  SPEAKER_01: as you say,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: a few A's and a few,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: few sub B's.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: something I was looking at this week,
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  SPEAKER_00: which Google made this change a while back with Google analytics,
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  SPEAKER_00: but they're now separating organic search from organic video.
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  And so for my firms that are,
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  you know,
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  maybe they're not super advanced with their strategy.
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  SPEAKER_00: We're just making content.
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  Those that are putting out that YouTube content are seeing
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  traffic from YouTube.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like people are going to YouTube with questions, no doubt.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a great place to,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I brought this up before on my podcast,
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  SPEAKER_00: so I don't know if I have with you before,
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  SPEAKER_00: but the good old 7-11 and four rule,
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  they need to see you like seven hours of content over 11 touch
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  points on four
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  SPEAKER_00: platforms or something like that.
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  And so like video is just an easy way to add and create that 11
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  hours of content or
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  SPEAKER_00: seven hours,
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  SPEAKER_00: whichever it is.
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  So are you doing the scripting yourself or is your agency
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  helping with that?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like, how are you guys generating like the new content?
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  SPEAKER_01: So and like I said, we've kind of gone into some changes.
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  SPEAKER_01: The marketer I had did have would provide me some scripts,
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  SPEAKER_01: some ideas and but ultimately I know what I want to talk about.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that was where we would go from there.
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  SPEAKER_01: Moving forward,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's really going to be kind of researching what are people asking,
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  SPEAKER_01: deep diving into the sub questions from that and then
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  I'm going to go back and probably,
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  I don't know if you can hear the sirens.
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  SPEAKER_00: I just hear you.
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  SPEAKER_00: Zoom's pretty good about filtering out background audio.
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  SPEAKER_00: I have a washer going on the other side of this wall,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I'm pretty sure you haven't heard that,
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  SPEAKER_00: have you?
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  SPEAKER_01: No, but we're a block and a half from the police and fire station.
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  SPEAKER_01: So on a regular given day when I'm talking to people and they're like,
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  SPEAKER_01: what are you,
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  SPEAKER_01: an ambulance chaser?
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  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, literally they're right here.
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  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, so, you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: Researching the sub points,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: are going to be the new way to prepare to deliver the content.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think AI questions,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: just going,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: find what's the most,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: what's the most asked question about this topic?
• 15:08
  And then from there,
• 15:09
  ask what other,
• 15:10
  what are things other people are asking?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then, then I can develop it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really what it's going to be.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think
• 15:19
  it'll be easier to go that way than have somebody who is not as
• 15:22
  familiar with the
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: law or familiar with what I do,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: then try to create something to be an algorithm.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So have you guys done anything else with your video?
• 15:33
  Are you looking at like social media video or have you even
• 15:37
  like started there yet?
• 15:38
  Yeah,
• 15:38
  so we are,
• 15:41
  we definitely,
• 15:44
  and I think that was kind of the missing link
• 15:47
  over the last few years is while we've been doing a lot of
• 15:49
  great stuff with
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: YouTube,
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: not really pushing it through our social media channels as much,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: but over the last month and a half,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: if anybody's seen me on LinkedIn or our social media pages,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've been trying to at least push the content.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I started doing shorts again because those are really simple.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: That I can do without sending it to an editor.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And again,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: maybe it's just B plus content,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: but if you get somebody to look at it,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: that's all that really matters.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we're now having a more consistent flow with that.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: shorts are,
• 16:30
  are interesting and I've seen this with law firms and I've seen
• 16:33
  this with my own
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: content,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: but like admittedly,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't paid much attention to it.
• 16:39
  Shorts,
• 16:40
  YouTube shorts,
• 16:41
  you know,
• 16:41
  mostly been YouTube videos or something else.
• 16:45
  And then I'll go back in our account and look at like which
• 16:48
  shorts are getting good
• 16:50
  views and looking at it for the first time in six months and
• 16:53
  realizing like,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: some of these have done really well.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're getting engagement.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're getting views.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly people like them.
• 17:02
  And a lot of it are just like shorter clips from the longer
• 17:04
  YouTube videos.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So they're relatively easy to make.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like shorts is...
• 17:09
  you know i there are um a lot of talk in the legal marketing
• 17:13
  space about youtube in
• 17:14
  general but and maybe i just haven't been listening the right
• 17:17
  people like i feel
• 17:18
  like shorts are just a part of that network that are
• 17:20
  underutilized and it's really
• 17:21
  interesting i hope i can dive more into at some point in the
• 17:24
  future um so uh well i
• 17:28
  mean i guess just beyond video um are you guys making any new
• 17:32
  marketing investments
• 17:33
  this year or um looking at kind of branching off and trying
• 17:36
  something new or are
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: you just like
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: maintaining what you guys are working on?
• 17:41
  So I think the biggest thing that's happened in this year is
• 17:45
  with marketing is kind
• 17:48
  of withdrawing from having a central person in the office to do
• 17:51
  our marketing and
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: then kind of farming out the subspecialties.
• 17:56
  I think what I've learned over the last five years of having
• 17:59
  someone who's been a
• 18:01
  person that I've relied on is they can't be everything that I
• 18:07
  want them to be.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's my issue, not theirs.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if anybody,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: if they're watching,
• 18:14
  I apologize for not realizing that you can't create and edit
• 18:18
  videos and be an SEO
• 18:22
  specialist and understand Canva and create ultimate works of
• 18:27
  art that we can
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: repurpose.
• 18:31
  as much as i would like somebody to have be a jack of all
• 18:34
  trades um and a master of
• 18:36
  it all they can't so i think kind of sub sub those specialties
• 18:44
  out but having the
• 18:46
  idea that they're all working together and that's i think
• 18:48
  that's the the biggest
• 18:49
  thing is getting all of those things to work together so that's
• 18:53
  that's where we're
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: going with on that you know we've had some
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure every bar association has their own challenges,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: but Florida is notorious for their advertising.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you're going to do some outrageous billboard.
• 19:11
  I can't understand why you can,
• 19:13
  as you drive,
• 19:14
  you see the craziest stuff now.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it used to never be that way.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's reasonings, you know, First Amendment reasonings for it.
• 19:22
  But then when you want to simply do a Facebook ad or you want
• 19:26
  to do a direct
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: mailer,
• 19:27
  which is completely allowed and has been done since I've been
• 19:30
  practicing a lot,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: it's amazing what you can and can't put on a mailer.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: For instance,
• 19:37
  I had real Google reviews from real clients and I wanted to
• 19:42
  send to represent my
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: quality of work.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: to someone who may have just been arrested.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the Florida Bar said,
• 19:52
  because this person says I'm the best lawyer or you'll get a
• 19:57
  great result.
• 19:59
  Since it couldn't be verifiable,
• 20:01
  they won't allow me to use those types of reviews in an ad.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: they'll allow me to put in the ones that say Mets team is great,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: good communication,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: which is probably more important than the result aspect of it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to go back and forth for months trying to hone down on that.
• 20:23
  And it makes getting out,
• 20:24
  when the idea comes and I'm ready to roll with it,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's still a three or four month process.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to say I lose interest,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: but I definitely lose steam in getting and rolling it out.
• 20:36
  So I do think that we are going to probably do another direct
• 20:41
  mail campaign that will be...
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: very targeted.
• 20:45
  I've been doing them on and off for 20 years and they're not as
• 20:50
  successful.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: When we first started doing them, there was no such thing as SEO.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a good way to do it.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it does have a market and it does have a place for it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: as a marketer,
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: a legal marketer and not a lawyer,
• 21:07
  I guess I don't always feel like I have a place or a say in how
• 21:11
  I feel about
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: various bar rules for marketing.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it feels like you guys kind of made those rules for yourselves.
• 21:19
  But,
• 21:19
  you know,
• 21:20
  as an outside person looking in,
• 21:21
  like,
• 21:22
  it's confusing to me.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: one,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: you'd think it would be really clear cut,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: some of the rules,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: but they're really rather ambiguous.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you see people getting away with things.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, wait, I thought we weren't allowed to do that.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we're not allowed to do that.
• 21:35
  It's just so ambiguous that sometimes you just get away with it
• 21:38
  until somebody
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: tells you to stop,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: like a particular advertising practice,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 21:43
  But you zoom out,
• 21:45
  not just looking at lawyers,
• 21:46
  but look at all these different industries.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so little regulation on what you can say, like,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: like just say as an ad agency,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: an ad agency can create an ad and make up results for themselves.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no ethics rules or guidelines or things preventing that.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yet with lawyers, there's a ton.
• 22:07
  And there's a ton that you just have to be aware of and all
• 22:09
  these nuances.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's challenging.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it, well, and I feel like other lawyers would disagree.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels like unnecessarily restrictive.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some things I would agree with, but some things are like,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 22:22
  like not being able to focus on results or something or having
• 22:26
  to go through a
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: process to get like a print mailer.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: It just seems kind of silly to me sometimes, honestly.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I definitely feel for you.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: To your point, I agree with you.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's very...
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: is very ambiguous of what the rules are.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I like to play by the rules just because I value my license and,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: and I know it's never going to be a potential client goes,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was misled by that ad.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be a competitor who's pissed off.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, and that's what it is.
• 22:55
  And a lot of people just do it until they get called out on it
• 23:00
  and face the consequences later.
• 23:02
  I just,
• 23:02
  I'm not going to play like that,
• 23:03
  but you know,
• 23:04
  I,
• 23:05
  I,
• 23:05
  to your,
• 23:05
  to your,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: remark advertising isn't really regulated other than like the FDA and,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: and and lawyers,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:15
  everybody wants to use alternative facts as the basis of their
• 23:19
  of their marketing.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, but we can't.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And when you think about like drug companies and FDA,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: you mentioned the FDA and it's like,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: that's,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: that's one where I'm like,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy there's,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: there's regulations.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you mentioned the marketers and not having a marketer in-house.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
• 23:39
  I definitely still feel like there's a place for somebody
• 23:43
  in-house who's a
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: generalist,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: who's managing vendors,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: who's coordinating,
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: make sure everything gets done and
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: message gets communicated to you, to the vendors.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I talk to more and more law firms that are doing what you're doing,
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: which is outsourcing to specialists,
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: which I just think is smart.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I really wouldn't advise any law firm to bring SEO,
• 24:05
  PPC or anything that requires like heavy specialty like video
• 24:10
  editing or creatives
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: in-house because it's
• 24:14
  You know,
• 24:14
  it's a profession,
• 24:15
  you know,
• 24:15
  it's a profession in its own right.
• 24:17
  Video editors are good video editors are good video editors and
• 24:21
  good copywriters
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: are good copywriters.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was talking with somebody about this the other day.
• 24:26
  You would think that AI would have made more people able to do
• 24:30
  these specialist
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: things,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: but really what it did is gave all the specialists
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: the same tools.
• 24:35
  So now they're just able to produce at a higher level and
• 24:39
  everyone's still learning
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: what they learn.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what you did is ultimately smart.
• 24:42
  You really have to lean on the people who know their trade
• 24:45
  because in the industry
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: we're in,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: it's just ridiculously competitive.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not going to do much with DIY marketing up against,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Morgan and Morgan or whoever the big law firm is in your region.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so you almost have to.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: and so,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: there's still a place for an in-house marketer and,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:07
  but there are certainly so many times where it just doesn't
• 25:09
  work out because,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:11
  maybe the marketer didn't have a good picture of what they
• 25:13
  would be doing and
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: wanted to be the specialist themselves.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's just not a match.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: like you said,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: managing the vendors,
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: but also getting the vision of what the firm is.
• 25:26
  So there will be a time where that happens and there'll be more
• 25:28
  of a marketing
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: manager than just a straight up marketer and doing all the tasks.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: So.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: But marketing is fun.
• 25:38
  So you kind of end up wanting to do all the tasks and that's
• 25:41
  just ends up being a
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: double-edged sword.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: that I will say that's the one thing since our last one left,
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I it's forced me to get my hands dirty again.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: When I first kind of started the journey around the time I met you,
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was kind of like,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:57
  Wizard of Oz,
• 25:58
  black and white to color,
• 25:59
  like,
• 25:59
  oh,
• 25:59
  my God,
• 25:59
  I could do all these things.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I had fun.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: I had help.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: You helped me create some of my brochures,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: not brochures,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: but my,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: my legal guides that covers and stuff like that,
• 26:09
  because that was out of my I knew that was out of my wheelhouse
• 26:12
  and everything else
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved that part of it.
• 26:15
  I have a business background,
• 26:16
  like my my bachelor's of sciences in business management.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I've always there was always this
• 26:24
  part of me and that I've loved being an entrepreneur and being
• 26:28
  in business,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: aside from being a lawyer,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: that the marketing,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: having fun with.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And now,
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: like having to get my hands dirty and seeing,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: really kind of where AI is going to be able to take us.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've created some stuff that will be released,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: in the next month or so that I'm kind of proud of,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: wow,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I took that and
• 26:52
  animated that and now we've created a video on this and
• 26:56
  hopefully that will attract attention.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: But at the meantime, I had I had fun doing it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have to get back to,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: my bread and butter,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: it's interesting.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: as a marketer,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: who's also a business owner,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: it's,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: it's really,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: it is really fun to learn something new,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: but you,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: you have to,
• 27:18
  you have to discern between what's valuable for you to do and
• 27:22
  what's valuable for
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: you to hand off to somebody else.
• 27:25
  And it's worth learning,
• 27:26
  you know,
• 27:26
  it's worth learning the things that you don't know.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: if there's an aspect of your business that you're unsure about,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 27:33
  I just feel like the easiest way to reduce your anxiety about
• 27:36
  it is to try to learn
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit about it.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: try to learn how it works and how Facebook ads work or how taxes work,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: whatever it is you're unsure about.
• 27:45
  And then,
• 27:46
  uh,
• 27:46
  to understand these things and to gain that confidence in it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: But like at the end of the day, like, I don't want to handle that.
• 27:53
  Like,
• 27:53
  you know,
• 27:54
  I know about it now,
• 27:55
  but that's a day to day job that I don't want to do.
• 27:59
  And there's probably something on the horizon that's more
• 28:01
  interesting for you to
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: learn,
• 28:03
  like go learn something else and let somebody else handle the
• 28:06
  thing that you
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: already set up for them or you already found out and learned about.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I get it.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun to do the marketing.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like even for me, it's, I mean, I'm a marketer.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I do it.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's really fun to do the marketing,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: but sometimes you have to take a step back and it's like,
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: this is a lot of fun,
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: but I have to,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: there's something more important that I have to focus my attention on.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's hard.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's really hard.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I sympathize.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: To your point,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: though,
• 28:32
  learning about it also makes me feel more prepared when I do
• 28:36
  talk to interview
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: vendors.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things I think was very eye-opening,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: kind of as we started going down of who's going to help us with video,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: who's going to help us with SEO,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: who's going to help us there.
• 28:51
  A lot of people,
• 28:52
  I think,
• 28:53
  look at lawyers and probably doctors,
• 28:56
  too,
• 28:57
  of,
• 28:58
  you know,
• 28:58
  kind of
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not putting you in this category,
• 29:02
  but the salespeople for marketing firms look at it like used
• 29:06
  car salesmen.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: They go like this, oh, these guys don't know what they're talking about.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're just gonna buy everything.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're an attorney.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: They'll afford our services.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: They need our services.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're a doctor.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and so having some touch points where you can say that,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 29:20
  you know what they're talking about when they're talking about
• 29:24
  SEO or where they're
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: talking about local service ads or they're going to talk,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: someone who wants to sell me on pay per click.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's they're not that's not where I'm going.
• 29:34
  I'm not going to pay for somebody just doing free research on
• 29:37
  this and click my site.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's not that's not going to pay off.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you local service ads might.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Organic SEO.
• 29:47
  So having that little bit of knowledge is like a superpower
• 29:51
  because then you're not
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: hopefully not getting sold stuff that you don't need.
• 29:57
  yeah um yeah there are a lot of sales people out there and i
• 30:02
  mean i i sell like you
• 30:03
  pointed out i sell marketing services too so i'm part of this
• 30:06
  game as well but i'm
• 30:07
  kind of a girl scout you know i will look in the horizon and
• 30:11
  see like it's like
• 30:13
  what you're selling isn't that useful or you know that could be
• 30:17
  easily brought in
• 30:17
  house or maybe they're just misrepresenting the heck that
• 30:21
  they're doing selling
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: entirely
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it happens.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: more commonly what I see are,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: vendors doing their best,
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:32
  the level of investment that the law firm is putting into their
• 30:34
  site and the SEO
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: team is doing just isn't enough.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that's usually more common.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right.
• 30:41
  There are like used car salesmen out there who see you
• 30:44
  attorneys as marks and
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: somebody willing to spend money if they can just pitch the right thing.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if I could share a story just the other day,
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was on LinkedIn and I was looking at this,
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know what?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how this stuff pops into my feet,
• 30:59
  but there was it was like a younger guy and he was doing like
• 31:02
  an on the spot
• 31:03
  interview at a bar with a girl going who named me one personal
• 31:07
  injury attorney,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: and they were in Miami.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So and.
• 31:12
  the woman was intoxicated with the guy interviewing was just
• 31:17
  like kind of shouting.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of,
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: it was like guerrilla marketing slash half Borat,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: half,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: pumped type of thing.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then she didn't understand.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then he explained why you have to have brand awareness.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I saw something else and I would just,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was kind of confused by what he was trying to convey.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then I looked at another one and, and,
• 31:42
  He was now more appropriately dressed trying to give you that
• 31:46
  marketing role.
• 31:47
  And he was saying he went to a certain firm's website who say
• 31:53
  they do personal
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: injury or litigation cases.
• 31:56
  And he's like,
• 31:57
  we've analyzed your website and you're not ranking where you
• 32:00
  should be.
• 32:02
  And the guy was looking at a civil defense firm who gets hired
• 32:06
  by the big insurance companies.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: They do personal injury.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: They defend personal injury.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a guy who doesn't know his market.
• 32:14
  And I was embarrassed for him,
• 32:18
  but I don't think he would have been embarrassed to...
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: be exposed, you know, he just turned it into another selling platform.
• 32:27
  But it scares me to see that because that guy is going to get
• 32:30
  the guy who doesn't
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: know anything about marketing and,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: sell him the yellow bro.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: The,
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: the example I have,
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: and I still see it and I'm not going to name the company,
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: although I do have their name in my head.
• 32:43
  But the ad is like a man walking up to a gal and it's obviously
• 32:47
  a college campus.
• 32:48
  You actually see the name of the college campus behind her and
• 32:52
  she's young.
• 32:53
  She looks to be,
• 32:54
  I mean,
• 32:55
  maybe I'm bad guessing,
• 32:56
  but under 23,
• 32:57
  let's just say that under 23.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he walks up to her and she's like,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: what's hard about lead generation for personal injury firms?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, well, you get leads that aren't good.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: The intake is long.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can't get ahold of them.
• 33:13
  I mean,
• 33:13
  she's listing,
• 33:14
  honest to goodness,
• 33:15
  real problems with law firm intakes.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, who is this kid who looks no more than 25 himself?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Who is she?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And what the hell do they know about running a law firm?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because it looks like they're recording an ad on a college campus.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:30
  You know,
• 33:31
  like I look at that and I'm just like,
• 33:32
  I'm sure they're doing something right.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know.
• 33:36
  Sometimes you look at a successful ad campaign that's getting a
• 33:39
  lot of views and
• 33:40
  you just have to assume that because they're spending a lot of
• 33:42
  money on it.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're getting something in the end.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, I just like,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's a little dishonest because you're not using,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: you're not talking to real attorneys.
• 33:53
  You're not talking to real intake teams who are willing to tell
• 33:55
  you their real problems.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're just trying to sell them on,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: we'll sell you personal injury leads that are,
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: we'll sell you qualified personal injury leads or something like that.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I hate it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: I really do.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: I really, I hate seeing those ads and I see them all the time.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: It drives me up a wall.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: I caught a glance at the time.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: It looks like we're coming up on it.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I lost track.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll ask my traditional last questions.
• 34:20
  Was there something that we didn't end up talking about that
• 34:22
  you wanted to cover today?
• 34:23
  Yeah,
• 34:26
  I want to flip the tables on you and give me your blunt
• 34:31
  assessment of what am I missing?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I need to go?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: What do I need to start looking at next?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: for me,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: and just,
• 34:40
  just based on what you told me without like looking at what
• 34:43
  you're doing or your
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: site,
• 34:45
  the missing piece for most law firms is just nailing or dialing
• 34:49
  in organic social.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, cause we're organic social ties into your SEO performance.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Their social media has always been like a light SEO signal.
• 35:01
  And officially this year,
• 35:02
  Instagram announced that their captions were indexable by
• 35:05
  Google.
• 35:07
  And so social media is sending brand signals to Google to tell
• 35:11
  you if a brand is
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: authoritative and that's affecting your website presence.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then beyond that,
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: just reaching people on social media,
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: it's a good,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: it's a good way to reach a local audience.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: creating interesting content,
• 35:24
  growing your followers and downstream growing the people on
• 35:28
  your marketing list.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that short form video that a lot of law firms are missing.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's not that,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: it's usually the community marketing piece,
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: which kind of ties hand in hand with the social media part of it.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: you talked about YouTube,
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard you mention like local service ads,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: you talked about newsletter,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: print newsletter,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: all of those are like fantastic things.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like,
• 35:51
  we're all trying to figure out this organic social piece and
• 35:53
  building up followers
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: and possibly getting referrals from it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And just for my listeners and maybe for you,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: if you haven't listened to it,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: but my interview with our podcast with Hunter Garrett,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: a couple episodes back,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: he talks about his personal Facebook use.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: For me,
• 36:11
  that was a great episode because he really went into how he
• 36:14
  leverages his personal
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: profile to gain referrals.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it can seem like small potatoes,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: if you're thinking really big with your marketing,
• 36:24
  but also a ton of really influential business owners leverage
• 36:29
  their personal
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Facebook to generate referrals.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really smart strategy.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you'll hate me because I don't do any social media personally.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: I do a lot of social media on LinkedIn,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: but my own personal like Facebook and Instagram are pretty weak,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: but company wise,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: so I'm actually with you on that one.
• 36:52
  It's advice I'm giving you,
• 36:54
  but it's advice I should also take just to be transparent on
• 36:57
  that.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, of course.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're welcome.
• 37:03
  Why don't you tell people how they can find you and look you up
• 37:05
  if they want to contact you?
• 37:07
  So on that last note on my social media,
• 37:10
  I don't have those off the top of my head.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: So my name is Matthew Konecki.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can find me on LinkedIn, Matthew Konecki.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's only one other one.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see this mug on there.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think Instagram is 561law.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Our website's 561law.com.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously from there, you could branch out and find us.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we serve South Florida.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Our main office is in Palm Beach Gardens.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we do criminal defense, DUI defense and personal injury.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: So God forbid you need me.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was a great episode.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess we'll talk to our listeners next time.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.