Latest / Boner and Mirror Tarot / Don't Shoot The Messenger...Fuck the Messenger!
Transcript
- Molly: Hello and welcome to Bona and Mira Tarot, the delightfully irresponsible little sibling of Bona and Mira Tarot. My name is Molly and every week three Tarot cards will end this podcast. One gets fucked, one gets married and one gets pushed off a cliff. It's childish, it is completely subjective and it is surprisingly revealing because if you know me and you know Bona and Mira Tarot, you'll know that I don't believe the Tarot is about predicting the future. It's a mirror. a way of meeting yourself through symbolism and psychology, embodiment and the wisdom of the cards. And Bona Emeritaro takes exactly the same approach, just with a lot more giggling. put three tarot archetypes through the highly scientific and deeply philosophical game of fuck, marry, push off a cliff. Which archetype deserves your undying devotion? Which one's worth a passionate fling and which one absolutely needs to get into the sea? Along the way, we'll explore what the cards reveal about attraction, avoidance, projection, shadow, values, and the wonderfully strange ways we make meaning. Expect depth psychology, archetypes, embodiments, the odd tantric tangents, and plenty of opportunities to laugh at yourself. And if you want to take the game off the podcast and into your own tarot practice, then I've made something for you. A little field guide called Tarot After Dark. It's packed with ridiculous tarot games, guided reflections, explorations of projection and desire. So you can make your own terrible decisions. and then get curious about what the hell that might reveal about you. you can grab it completely free through the link in my show notes or the link in my bio on Instagram. So whether you're here for the psychology, the Tarot or your own deeply irrational grudge against the Seven of Cups, welcome to Bona and Miratorro. Let's shuffle the cards, suspend our dignity, and see who's getting married today. Hello and welcome back everybody to another episode of Bona and Mirror Tarot. Today I am extremely excited to welcome my guest Jessica, who's going to be playing along today. A big warm welcome to you Jessica. I'm so, so excited to have you on the podcast. And I would love you to introduce yourself, to tell everybody a little bit about what you do, what your relationship to the Tarot is. You know, what is your relationship with meaning making and anything else? Yeah. Tell me a bit more about you. Jessica: Hi, so my name's Jessica. I'm a meditation guide tarot reader, and I also am the founder of Sync Up. It is a platform dedicated to facilitators to help them push their events and to bring meaningful connection together through wellness events. So yeah, thank you so much for having me. I am really excited about this. I this is very much along the lines of what I love to talk about and anything silly and playful. I'm here for it. So thank you so much for having me. Molly: I'm so, so excited to have you and Sync Up sounds amazing. It sounds like a really wonderful way to bring wellness practitioners together, to like push people's events out there, to just build community, is all about, or all of what I am about. Where can people find you on socials for those people that after this podcast are gonna listen to you and be like, yep, I wanna follow this person. Jessica: So you can find me personally at Rituals with Jessica, or you can find Sync Up through Sync Up events. You can explore what events are arounding your location, what experiences are happening, and it's really just a place where you can find that connection that I feel unfortunately society is lacking a little bit of these days. Molly: Thank so much. Yes, go and check out Jessica's work. Go check out Sync Up. But for now, we're gonna get straight to it. We're gonna pull some cards and we're gonna ask that very, very important question, which is, fuck, marry, push off a cliff. And I don't know about you, Jessica. When was the last time that you played this game? Jessica: not not recent enough because I love all things like this and yeah I'm just excited to play, get it on. Molly: Let's do this. So I'm going to pull three cards and then let's see where we go from there. Awkward pause whilst I shuffle. Jessica: Ha ha ha. Molly: okay. We've got an interesting mix. So your options are, we have the nine of wands. Okay. Jessica: Okay. Molly: The nine of wands. We have the page of wands. Jessica: Okay, got one theme happening. Molly: We've got two wands so far and then the star. Jessica: okay. Molly: What a good mix, So we've got nine of ones, page of ones, and the star. So a little Major Arcana has come out for us today. So yeah, the question is, what is like immediately happening for you? Are there any cards that you're like, yep, I know what I want to do with that one, or any cards that you're like, would I marry them? Would I fuck them? Would I push them off the cliff? What are you thinking? Jessica: Instantly I'm like married star done. 100% Molly: Ooooo Jessica: marry the star. the Molly: Tell me, tell me why. Jessica: other two I'm struggling because I don't want to really push either of them off a cliff. Like I invite them both. but yeah, with the star, it's just like okay, it's like that really like dreamy, magical card. Like what's what are you wishing on? And you kind of want that kind of energy in your life of someone like a supportive partner. That is going to be like, I'm here to make your dreams come true. I will support you in your adventures and, you know, everything that you're creating. And I feel like the star really embodies that kind of energy. Molly: And for me, the star, I mean, I'm so glad that the star made an appearance. She's such an important card for me personally in my journey. And I always think of, I can never really think of the star on her own. I think of the star Jessica: Mm-hmm. Molly: as, you know, it's like the tower and the star. And so for me, like the experience that I've had in my life, which have, you know, I've I've had some tower moments, don't get me wrong, I've had a few difficult years where it just feels like this kind of relentless change or this relentless just moments of really not knowing who I am, what I'm doing, like what the fuck is happening, I have no idea. And the star always seems to be this like little moment of hope, this moment of... It's not even healing, it's not fixed. Nothing's fixed with the star, but it's just that moment of like... okay, I know where I'm going or I can follow that, you know, like in the moments of absolute despair, small things such as like seeing a sunset or having an evening with friends, those are those star moments of like, okay, it's not all gonna be, you know, it's not gonna be like this forever. And I think I totally agree with you that that energy would be something that I would want in a partner as someone that in moments of just absolute despair. or big change, you want someone that feels like home hope to you. I can imagine like the star being the partner. Well, actually even I can speak on personal experience, know, having had a mum who died very suddenly and, yeah, podcast, by the way, I've got a dead mum. Just like, she'll definitely come out through all these podcast episodes. Like when my mum died, I was absolutely, you know, distraught for a really long time. and the type of partner that I needed was someone that acted as the star that was that, you know, like guiding home person. Because I think when you pick someone that you're gonna marry, you want to know that they are gonna be with you in sickness and in health and in all of the really difficult periods in your life. So yeah, do you agree? Is there anything that feels unsaid from that bit? Jessica: I completely agree. It is that card of optimism. And when you need, like you said, in the tower moments and everything feels like it's crashing down around you, having that glimmer of hope and optimism in your ear is that reassuring, you know, the hopeful energy. And I think it's yeah, I I agree with everything you said. Molly: Mm, I wonder what it would be like to marry the star. What kind of wedding do you think the star would have? Jessica: It's gotta be something proper like bougie, right? Something really Molly: Yeah. Jessica: out there and I'm trying to think like I'm picturing everyone typically in like gold and silver, something really bright and like just out there. Molly: I don't know why, but I'm getting like beach wedding vibes. I am. Jessica: Really? Okay. Molly: I think maybe because the star almost always has like that image of water, like she's pouring, you know, she's pouring from her vessel. And so I'm thinking like bougie fantasy, but with like, I think the water just has to be there for her. Jessica: Yeah. Molly: It is definitely a wedding that I would want to attend. So I think. I think the moment she popped out, we were like, yep, okay, we're gonna marry the stuff. Easy. Next. next. Jessica: Yep, they got speaking about itself. Next. Molly: So next is these two. We've got the page and the nine, both in Wands. For me, the Wands is all about like intuition, passion, power, energy, action. And we've got to, Jessica: Yeah. Molly: I mean, we've actually got to fairly different expressions of the Wands. and we need to fuck one of them and we need to bye bye into the sea off the cliff. What are you thinking? Jessica: this is so hard. We couldn't have had like to be in the same suit as well. It just doesn't make it easy, does it? It's one of them things I was hoping to get like the devil and then I would have been like, yeah, fuck. but no, with this, it just makes it so hard. I think I I'm going on two different things. I'm like, okay, the page, it's kind of more of the messenger, kind of like the introduction, right? or we've got the nine, which is more the end of something coming to completion, like really more along that journey. And it's like, okay, well, which one would I rather push off a cliff? Because I want to be at the end of the journey, but I can't have the end of the journey unless I have the introduction to the journey, right? So it's like which comes first, the chicken or the egg? I think I'd have to fuck the page. You gotta fuck Molly: Mmm. Jessica: the messenger. Don't shoot the messenger, fuck him. Molly: I mean, that needs to be on tote bags everywhere. Don't shoot the messenger, fuck them instead. Love that. I am on a similar thinking as you, but my only concern, because the page for me is like that, like wondrous energy. It's like someone who's like really excited and there's that newness of Jessica: Mm. Molly: it. And they're like, I imagine that they'd just be very pleased to be in your bedroom. You know what mean? Like they'll be like, this is amazing. I really want to fuck you. And you'll be like, woo. I think they'd be like super pleased to be there and very giving probably. Jessica: Yeah. Molly: But then there's also that part of me that's like, do I want to be with somebody who like has that new energy? Like maybe they don't know what they're doing because everything's new and exciting. Do they know where the thing, where do they know where the clip is? Who knows? Jessica: Do you know what that is such a good way to think about it? I think I'm I'm considering this too logically and exactly that right. For me, if someone comes into my bedroom and they're all like, Whoo, hey, let's have a party, let's have fun, as much as that's nice, I think I'd get the ick a little bit. Like it's almost like, okay, because I'm so playful and golden retriever energy, I need that black cat energy. I need that maturity and that seduction. And yeah, you're right. I don't know if the page would gives me what I would necessarily want. Molly: Mm-hmm. It's and and it's that thing of like the nine again nine of ones Has that kind of a little bit more mature energy there towards the end of the development of the suits But also the nine of ones is just before that ten of ones and that ten of ones is someone who is tired They like the nine is that that kind of point where they're just like they're about to enter the ten of ones Which is they've taken on too much. They're tired. They're like just holding everything and so unwilling to let things go. And I'm like, do I want that in my bedroom? Do I want someone who's a bit, I can imagine a nine of ones being a little bit woe is me, a little bit like, you know, like, I'm almost there. Like, yeah, I'll just Jessica: Well. Molly: take on that other, like, I'll just take on that other thing, you know. hang on, you Jessica: Yeah. Molly: laughed at what I said. And then I've realized that you're laughing because they've just gone, I'm almost there, I'm almost finished. And I didn't mean it in that way, but now. Jessica: Exactly. Molly: Now maybe I'm do mean it in that way. Are they just like, I don't know, like especially this image of the night of the nine and the Rider Waite Smith Jessica: Mm. Molly: image has got someone with with like a head wound. And we normally think of that as like a bit of an ego bruise. Like, do I want that Jessica: All right. Molly: person who's a bit like at the gate can't really put their foot over the gate? you know, it feels a little bit tired. So we've got the decision between do we want the golden retriever like, my god, I'm really just pleased to be in your bedroom. Woohoo. but I don't know where anything is. Or do we want someone who knows where the, they know where the anatomy is, but they're a little bit tired. I don't think I'm making this decision any easier. Jessica: No, 'cause I felt like I was clear on my decision and it keeps changing. And then the more you say, I'm like, yeah, flittering between the both. and I've got to go. Got a go golden retriever energy only because when someone's tired, it is not the best sex. Like, I don't know about you, but when I'm tired, the last thing on my mind is sex, particularly when I feel like I've taken on too much or I'm overwhelmed. I do not want sex. I I I always need someone to pick me up and be like, Yeah, come on, like keep going. And I feel like the page of ones would be more of that energy. Molly: I think we're just going to have to harness the wondrous energy of the page, the fact that they're extremely pleased to be there and it's going to be a teaching moment. Like this isn't going to be a very clear, like it's not a clear power dynamic, right? Like, or if it is a clear power dynamic, we are the doms in this situation because the Jessica: Yeah. Molly: page is going to need a little bit of teaching. But I think I agree with you. I don't think that I want the woe is me nine of ones. Jessica: Yeah. Molly: But that does mean that it's going to have to go off the cliff, which does have some implications. You know, we're getting towards the end of building that maturity around intuition and passion and energy. So yeah, it will have to go out of the deck. But I think I agree with you. I think I would rather have to teach somebody who is enthusiastic and willing. rather than having to like coax out that like energy you know can you imagine being in a bedroom with someone who who knows what they're doing they they know how to do it but they're just not that bothered by it Jessica: Yeah, I feel like it would make me feel almost like insecure. Like they like they know exactly what to do and how to do it, but they don't want to do it with me. So feel like it Molly: Mmm, yeah. Jessica: would turn on me and I'd be like, okay, is it me? Am I the problem? When with Molly: Mmm. Jessica: a golden retriever guy, you know that like he is like up for it. I say he, she, he, whoever. Molly: Yeah, they are totally up for it. I am Jessica: Yes. Molly: okay. I think we're firm. We're fucking the page of ones We're marrying the star Bless Jessica: Hell yeah. Molly: bless her. She's just gonna be the best Partner ever and I'm so sorry to say nine of ones you are off the cliff Later Jessica: See ya later. Molly: Amazing. I think I think we're firm in that decision. Well done Thank you so much for playing this with me. I've got two last questions for you that I'm going to ask everybody on the podcast and that is from the whole entire tarot deck who would be the best lover and who is the biggest like red flag, walking red flag. Jessica: I love this question, but I feel like I need three to five business days to think about it. So bear with me, bear with. Molly: absolutely fine. You can take everyone on the podcast, take your time to go and find Jessica on socials while she thinks about this million dollar question. Jessica: So the best lover and alternatively the biggest red flag. Molly: Absolutely. Jessica: See, major cars obviously what come to my mind first, right? Because it is the majors. but I feel like I'm not thinking deep enough into the possibilities. See, part of me goes to for the biggest red flag, partially the chariot, because Molly: oooo Jessica: I know, because it's like, okay, well, which direction am I gonna go in? Right? Where do I want it to take me? It's almost like as affirming as it could be, it's almost for me feels like that little bit of indecision. that you do have a path to go ahead, but like where is it? And in terms of like the red flag lover, it's like, okay, well. you know, are you firm in your decision? Do you want me? Do you not? Are you gonna go one way or you're gonna go the other? It's for me, that's kind of like the logic that's coming to my mind with that. And Molly: Mm. I love that. I'll let you into a secret. You are not the first person to choose the chariot as the biggest red light. Yeah, Jessica: really? Molly: which is so interesting to me. I'll let you in on a secret podcast. My answer to this episode, which you might hear more than once, is it is the Knight of Cups. I think he's the biggest little... he's a fuck boy. He's a fuck boy. Knight of Cups doesn't have... has no idea what he's doing. especially in this right in the lights of his deck. I'm not going to be able to find it in the time that we that or maybe whilst you're thinking about your the best lover I can find this picture of the night of Jessica: I have actually got my best lover, Molly: for it. Jessica: and that is the Two of Cups. The Two of Cups for me, it's that soul connection, that soul bond. And before my current partner came into my life, the Two of Cups showed up a lot for me. And then I met my partner and I was like, You are my two of cups. You are exactly even better than I ever could have imagined. So for me, he represents the Two of Cups, and he is. every green flag going. So yeah, Molly: you Jessica: it's it's got to be the two of cups. I think that's actually quite easy. Molly: love that. Yeah, I love that. This is the Knight of Cups in the... He's a fuckboy. He's Jessica: yeah, yeah, yeah. He's doing too much here. Molly: doing too much. Heart on his sleeve. He has no idea about anything. Like, the Knight of Cups is the type of person who's gonna be like, yeah, I'll wine and dine you. I know everything about my feelings. I've done therapy before. I finished it. Wow. And then the moment that they're triggered will spiral into something and then you're just like... wow, you're so immature. So that would be my answer. But thank you so much for playing this game with me. If you enjoyed the podcast, please do like, subscribe, leave a comment. If you enjoyed listening to both of us today, then absolutely go and follow what Jessica's doing. She's doing some amazing things in the Tarot space and also the wellbeing space. So a big thank you to you, Jessica. Jessica: Thank you so much. I've had a great time. Molly: I'm so glad and we will see you next time. Bye bye. Jessica: Bye. Molly: And that is a wrap for this episode of Bona and Mira Tarot. A huge thank you to my guests for joining me and making some truly questionable life choices on behalf of the tarot. If you've enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you subscribed, left a review or shared it with someone who would definitely have an argument with a tarot card. And if you've been listening and thinking, I need to play this game, then good news, I have made you something. Tarot After Dark is my completely free field guide to desire, projection and questionable relationships with archetypes. Inside, you'll find Fuck, marry, push off a cliff, tarot date, red flag, green flag, unfortunately hot, and a whole collection of ridiculous ways to play with the cards. alongside slightly more serious psychology of why these games can actually tell us something about ourselves. Because sometimes deciding that you'd shag the night of ones is just funny, and sometimes asking why tells you considerably more than you'd expect. You can download Tarot After Dark for free using the link in the show notes or the link in my bio. And if that gets you curious about the slightly more serious side of my work, come and find me at Bone and Mirror Tarot, where I explore Tarot through depth psychology, embodiment and transpersonal practices. You can find me on Instagram at at bone and mirror Tarot, where I share readings, workshops and all the ways that I use the cards as a doorway into understanding ourselves a little more deeply. And finally, if you're listening and thinking I would love to come on the podcast and make some terrible decisions of my own, I would genuinely love to hear from you. Send me a message and let's make it happen. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, keep laughing, keep getting curious, and remember, we take the tarot seriously, we just don't take ourselves too seriously.