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The Hidden Psychology Behind Your Food Choices with Matty Lansdown · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The number one cause of weight gain is dieting. And
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: the reason for that is in this Western world where satisfaction, comfort, validation,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: dopamine is so easily accessible. When you deprive it, it's
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: so much easier to just give up and go towards
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the things that are helpful. So putting a Heroin addict
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: in a Heroin.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Store, Buddy Linstein, Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, Paul Taylor. What's going on?
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: Ah, I tell you, what's going on is fucking technology frustrations.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: I just said to you, I was just about to
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: do a talk for the Cancer Concil on my internet
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: just completely and utterly shut itself.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Which is lovely, isn't it. When it's three minutes before
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: you're both to start a talk.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: There's nothing worse, nothing worse. You open up an app
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: and then something reboots or needs to update, and it's
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: like worse timing.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: They were very understanding, and thankfully I know the CEO
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: pretty well.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: She's great. So we're just rescheduling, but managed to get
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: it up online for this podcast.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: So you are, You're a nutritionist, you're a scientist, you're
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: an international speaker, and you're also a podcast host. I've
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: been on your podcast recently, but you really focus in
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: on the psychology of eating and particularly around emotional eating.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: But let's really start from the top. Why do we
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: seem to have such a big issue around food in
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  Speaker 3: the first place.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, good question, and it pretty easily answered. Dopamine in
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  Speaker 1: the short is the really short answer. We're in a
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: world and you are the expert of this world of
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: comfort and discomfort. Right, We're in a world where we
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: don't have to do hard things and we can use
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the easy option and not be socially judged for it
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: and not be ridiculed. Whereas we think about, you know,
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  Speaker 1: maybe several hundred years ago or thousands of years ago,
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  Speaker 1: by choosing a different option, you might be outcast from
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  Speaker 1: the small family or tribe that you were in and so,
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  Speaker 1: you know, whereas nowadays it's if you don't go out
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  Speaker 1: and eat ice cream, you're the weird one, right, You're
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the odd person that's doing the you know, the healthy thing.
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  Speaker 1: Whereas now everybody it's sort of socially okay to join in,
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  Speaker 1: you know, destructive behaviors, and everybody sort of champions you
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  Speaker 1: for that or bullies you into submission for not eating
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  Speaker 1: the thing or doing the thing, and so yeah, I
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  Speaker 1: think fundamentally it's just that life's hard. Life is overwhelming,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: it's difficult, it's challenging. People have trauma, and historically the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: way in which we dealt with that was to either
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: swallow it or deal with it, and we might have
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: had to deal with it head on with a sword
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: or an axe, or nowadays we're so civilized and organized
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: that yelling at somebody or saying what you think or
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: releasing that energy or to talking to somebody about it,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, just get on with it. We're busy,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: we're distracted. So the way that we heal those pains
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: or sufferings or emotions or excessive cortisol and excessive adrenaline
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  Speaker 1: in our system, instead of burning it, is that we
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: bury it. And often food is the lowest barrier to
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  Speaker 1: entry thing that we can go towards. We can go
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: to the supermarket. You know, it's not like alcohol or
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: drugs where there's a clear line between addiction and you
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: don't actually need those things to live, whereas food you
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: need food to live. So it's a very gray, vague area.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: That's a really good I mean, there's lots of really
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: good points that you just brought up.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: But people don't have to smoke, they don't.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Have to drink alcohol, but we do have to eat, right,
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: and that's the thing.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: And then we have more and more of this ultra
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: processed food, which to go.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Back to your first point about dopamine gives the brill
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  Speaker 3: in a nuclear reward that, yeah, our human brand like
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  Speaker 3: not all food, I mean food.
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  Speaker 2: Is supposed to be rewarding.
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  Speaker 3: You know, we have those that natural reward in the brain, food, water, sex, nurturing, achievement,
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  Speaker 3: all naturally released dopamine, which, as you will know, a
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: lot of people say it's it's the pleasure chemical. It's
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  Speaker 3: not really, it's the chemical of motivation and goal directed behavior.
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  Speaker 3: And when you have a tim tam, you know you
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  Speaker 3: have other chemicals.
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  Speaker 2: In your brain going, oh that's lovely. Dopamine's going worth
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  Speaker 2: the rest of the packet, right absolutely.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: And I think this is a big part of the
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  Speaker 3: issue is that there is so much of this ultra
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  Speaker 3: process food that hits the bliss point in the brain
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  Speaker 3: right where it is ay this delicate balance of either
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: salt and sugar or salt and fat, or fat and
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: sugar or salt, fat and sugar, Like any two of
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  Speaker 3: those things in the right balance hits the reward pathway
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: and Pringles have nailed it right for all ultra process foods.
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  Speaker 3: Once you pop, you can't stop.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're literally advertising their addictiveness.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
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  Speaker 3: But it's really interesting, isn't it, because that when we
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  Speaker 3: eat those foods that just tearste amusing, they are Moorish, right,
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  Speaker 3: and you do want more of them, and they're designed
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  Speaker 3: like that, and we get a reward, We get a
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  Speaker 3: soothing of our stress or our soothing of our anxiety,
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  Speaker 3: which then reinforces their behavior.
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  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, absolutely, And it's a vicious cycle because the
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: other element of that is that whilst I guess you know,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: do the emotional binge overeating work from fundamentally a psychological
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: standpoint first, there's also the nutritional element, which is this
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: when you put in food and they've done there's a
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  Speaker 1: group of I'm going to blank on their names, but
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  Speaker 1: there's a group of evolutionary biologists that have done this
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  Speaker 1: work in looking at multiple species all the way down
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  Speaker 1: to fly locusts up to mammals humans as well. All
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: species over eat carbohydrates to hit their protein quota.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: I interviewed the guys on my podcast, two guys from City.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah they are brilliant and Russ rush rush Back or
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: something like.
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  Speaker 2: I can't remember their names, but.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I always to give their names.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: But yeah, absolutely brilliant than that.
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  Speaker 3: That showing that we all species will eat and continue
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: to eat until they hit the required amounts of protein.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: And most of the if you look at ultra processed foods,
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  Speaker 3: they are not protein heavy because protein's expensive.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Right, And yeah, well it stops you eating the product.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: That's right, I say, I know, you know what, I
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: never thought of that. That's true.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you get to the end of the bag of
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  Speaker 1: a you know, protein field thing and you don't you
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  Speaker 1: need less willpower to manage going back, and you're satiated.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: That's so you don't go back to the for you
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: don't buy another one.
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  Speaker 3: That's the thing, because my go to snack would be
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  Speaker 3: different types of build tongue or meat stick stick because
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I just tried to eat it and then you're good, right,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: and you don't.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Need any more.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: That's a very point actually that I'd never factored in.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: But I think one of the other things, just before
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: we dive into the whole emotional eating thing.
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  Speaker 2: And you mentioned that the way that we are with
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: society now I is this. It's more than an acceptance.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: It's almost become an encouragement of larger bodies. And it's
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  Speaker 2: well intentioned. I get it.
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  Speaker 3: It's well intentioned, and it's about not body shaming. And
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  Speaker 3: I'm one hundred percent behind that, right, So I don't
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  Speaker 3: want anybody to misinterpret what I'm saying. But what we're
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  Speaker 3: doing is that we're normalizing being overweight and being obese.
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  Speaker 2: And what people.
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  Speaker 3: Don't realize is the multitude of health benefits that come
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  Speaker 3: into that. But it's also then that that normalizes over eating,
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  Speaker 3: and to your point earlier on and and.
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  Speaker 2: That that then when you get into.
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  Speaker 3: That pathway, it's so bloody hard to get out up right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And and I would agree with you. Happy at
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  Speaker 1: every size, awesome, worthy at every size, lovable at every size,
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  Speaker 1: you know, amazing, healthy at every size. No, not at all,
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  Speaker 1: And that and that number that there's not there's a
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  Speaker 1: number that's going to be different for everybody, or a
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  Speaker 1: set of compositions or statistics or information that will be
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  Speaker 1: slightly different for everyone. But I think we deal these
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  Speaker 1: days with such like on an individualistic base, the basis of,
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  Speaker 1: you know, don't hurt this individual's feelings, don't hurt this person,
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  Speaker 1: don't do that kind of thing, whatever it is. You know,
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  Speaker 1: we're protecting the individual. But we live in a society,
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  Speaker 1: and so if we don't take a societal lens or
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  Speaker 1: a community focus, then we are we are blind to
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  Speaker 1: the consequences and the consequences on a bigger scale. And
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: when we get into this kind of macro thinking, it
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  Speaker 1: it's hard to relate to. So I get why people
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  Speaker 1: don't think about it. But we have a reduction in
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  Speaker 1: the productivity of society. We have more sick days at work,
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  Speaker 1: we have interest rates and things that go up as
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  Speaker 1: a consequence, we have more people that use the system
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  Speaker 1: that we pay the medical system of which we all
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  Speaker 1: pay tax. Are We're going to get to a point
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  Speaker 1: where I get to pay less tax because I'm healthy?
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  Speaker 1: Probably not right? And so there's other macro ways that
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  Speaker 1: this this comes into the conversation and degrades society. If
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  Speaker 1: we champion the healthy at every size and cele obesity
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  Speaker 1: celebration with you know, celebrities and role models that just
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  Speaker 1: and you know, even I did a podcast yesterday with
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  Speaker 1: a clinical psychologist that's in this world as well. And
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  Speaker 1: you know the movement on YouTube of mock bang. I
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: don't know if you've heard of it, but it's basically it's, oh,
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  Speaker 1: there's people that earned millions and millions of dollars just
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  Speaker 1: eating on camera. They just they're like in the most
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  Speaker 1: disgusting foul ways you can ever imagine. And it's again,
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  Speaker 1: it's this public championing of bigger bodies, terrible food behavior.
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  Speaker 1: And sure half the audience are watching because they're saying, oh,
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  Speaker 1: this guy's like me, and the other half are watching
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  Speaker 1: because they're like, can you believe this is real? Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: Kind of and it's like you're watching a car crash
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  Speaker 3: and you can't stop, right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. But this just sort
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  Speaker 1: of illustrates that there's this huge movement. And you go
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: onto any of these videos five million views, ten million views,
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  Speaker 1: you know they're earning millions of dollars in ad revenue.
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  Speaker 1: But again, it's just this normalization and of a greater
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  Speaker 1: number of people in society saying it's okay to be
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  Speaker 1: like this, and as an individual, you do you as
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  Speaker 1: part of if you're going to be part of my
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: society though, I think we should level up.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, look, I completely agree on that. And research
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  Speaker 3: can I just this week. I mean, it's research that
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  Speaker 3: we kind of all get intuitively, but for the first
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: time they have realized, Hi, being on healthy physically damages
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: that bring in and your mind. And it appears to
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: be that all all organs sends signals to each other,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: and so an unhealthy liver actually creates an unhealthy brain,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: and unhealthy capancreas creates an unhealthy brain.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: And it's through these inflammatory.
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  Speaker 3: Messagers and other metabolic messages that actually changes the way
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: that the brain actually works and drives our whole host
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: of mood disorders. Right, And yeah, you know, I've been
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: talking about the interactions between the body and brain for decades,
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  Speaker 3: but now we're starting to see real evidence behind the
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: fact that when you are unhealthy and this is this
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: isn't just overweight, this is unfit as well, that it
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  Speaker 3: actually damages organs, and those organs can damage sense signals
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  Speaker 3: that damage other organs as well.
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  Speaker 2: So we started to see.
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  Speaker 3: There's this knock on effect at an ecosystem level that
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: is really concerned because then you have neurological conditions, you
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: get neurine generous diseases, but you also get mood disorders. Right,
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: and you talked about productivity. The biggest driver of presenteeism
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: or disability adjusted life here is is actually mood disorders.
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  Speaker 2: Depression is the single biggest, right And so that.
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  Speaker 3: Healthy body equals healthy mind, we have not really seen it.
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  Speaker 3: And that when your your body is not healthy and
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: not fit, and that that damages your organs, which then
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: there's this knock on effect where they start to damage
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: each other, including the brilliant.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Well and I think the you know, further down the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: chain of this conversation of poor mental health, you know, depression, anxiety,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: mood disorders, that type of thing is is the idea
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that in the absence of exercise, because a lot of
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: people think exercise is about getting skinny, but yeah, right, well,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: and in some parts of your journey or the individual's journey,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: it might be about that. But the other thing is
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: that if we get to the mood disorder conversation and
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: also acknowledged it that all the chemicals and all the
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: terrible shit that's in, you know, in the ultra processed
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: food is also contributing to degradation of the brain and
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the body. But the absence of physical biological resilience from
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: not exercising, not lifting something heavy is also a contributing
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: factor to that lack of resilience in the workplace or
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: in the environment. And then to sort of circle back
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: to where we were, is this super individualistic, always offended
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: society that has no resilience whatsoever, right, because you know,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: you can probably tie it all into the same loop.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: If they've never lifted something heavy, they've never done something hard,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and never's a big overarching broad term. But you understand
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: what I'm.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Saying absolutely, and there I am in complete violent agreement.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: I like to talk about psycho physiological resilience, right, which
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: is this body Brian resilience. And you can't be resilient
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: just by doing positive thinking, Like there's this toxic positivity
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: shit that's.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Out there that drives me nuts.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: That you have to condition the body and condition the
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: mind by doing challenging stuff, because the biggest benefit of
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: exercise is that it's a stressor and it stimulates the
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: body to have positive adaptations.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: And that's just like the mind. And who was it?
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: It was one of the stoic philosophers said that, and
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: I'll paraphrase here, but just like liaber is good for
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: the body, dealing with difficulties is toughens the mind as well.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Right, But it is this.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Culture that we're in where it is all about trying
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: to minimize our stress and then about soothing your stress
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: with either alcohol, drugs or food. And I think the
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: issue now is that this stuff is all around us.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Everywhere, right.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: I mean alcohol and drugs were always available to a
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: certain extent, but I think the change in the composition
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: of our food in.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: The last thirty years is just massive.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: I'll just open that up for comment from around that topic,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: like how big do you think the changing composition of
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: the food and the ultra processed food is as part
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: of our overall problem?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, I would say a huge part of the problem.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Percentage wise. I don't know, it's going to be different
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: for everyone. And fifty percent maybe it's fifty percent movement.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: You know what's going in which also includes unfiltered water,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the air that we breathe in cities. You know,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: there's a whole rabbit hole of detoxification to go down there.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: But the food is the thing, and this is why
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I'm sort of in this world of this combination of
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: psychology and nutrition because both of those things are things
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: that are within our reach to do something about, and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: just as exercises as well. And we've got to eat,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: so you know, unless we want to just die, we
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: don't have a choice. We've got to We've got to eat,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: whereas the other things, you know, we've got a choice
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: as to whether we do or don't or you know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: et cetera. But yeah, I think it's enormous. The vegetable
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: oils one of the biggest destroyers of the brain and
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: nervous system as well.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: Talk us through that, mat so there will be you know,
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: my listeners will have heard me say I'm not a
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: fan of vegetable oils. So talk us through the process
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: by which they can become damaging for us.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. So there's what's referred to by Kate Shanahan,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: who for anyone that can see the videos, a couple
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: of her books on my shelf over here. But she's
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: put out Deep Nutrition and Dark Calories. Both of them
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: have several hundred studies. The Deep Nutrition has over sixteen
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: hundred studies in it referencing vegetable oils or if she
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: refers to them, the hateful ache. So we're talking about
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: canola oil, grape seed oil, rape seed oil, sunflower oil,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: safflower oil, cottonseed oil, and corn oil. And the reason so,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: first and foremost, all of those minus corn are not
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: vegetables whatsoever. They're nuts and seeds. And that was a
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: marketing decision made in about the early seventies to call
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: them vegetable oils. And then they in order to get
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: any of those nuts and seeds. And if you think
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: about any of those nuts and seeds, if you crush
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: them or bite into them, do you ever produce a liquid?
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: No? Right, So it's got to go through a heavy
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: amount of processing to get the oil that is in
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: those out of them. And depending on the manufacture process,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: it's somewhere between thirty and seventy steps of manufacture, and
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: those manufactured steps three.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: To seventy steps.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, depending on the business and the factory in China
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: and all Malaysia and all insert location.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Whole shit.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: But that's because they're not very nice because three of
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: those steps include coloring. So you know, you walk down
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the aisle of the supermarket the cooking oil and it's
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: just this beautiful golden syrups. You know, it's like it's
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: just amazing. But they have to color them because they're
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: disgusting colors. They're like sludge. When they've gone through the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: first couple of steps of squeezing the oil out of them,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: they have to deodorize them because they smell all and
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: then they have to flavor them. They had flavors in
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: as well to make sure that they are, you know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: consumable by humans. And of course, slapping on the label
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: that says vegetable oils, everybody gets vegetable, we think health.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: But along this process it goes through many phases of
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: increased heat, far higher than you would achieve in your kitchen. Yeah,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: and what that does to the oil is it oxidizes it,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: so it denages it and breaks it and an oxygen
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: molecule attaches to it, which means now it's not in
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: a helpful form. And many people will have heard of
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: smoke points. And you know, you've got to use certain
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: oils for certain temperatures. That's because at a certain temperature,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: these oils change shape and they become no longer helpful.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: And that can actually be a selling point for them.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: They have a high smoke point, right, And so that's
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: the whole thing. When they realize that transfats were unhealthy,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: that oh, well, let's do these vegetables because they have.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: A higher smoke point.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: But what most people don't realize is they've become a
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: completely adultert to that point that you actually get them
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: so before you even start to cook with them, they
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: are completely adulterized. And the research shows that when you
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: hate an unsaturated fat, it actually gives off toxic aldehydes
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: at a much higher level than a model ensaturate or
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: a saturated fat.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: This is something that people don't really understand absolutely.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And actually many of the bottles of vegetable oil, if
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: you've got one in your cupboard and you're listening right now,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: will have somewhere on it a line that says that
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: there's not a great deal of evidence that supports the
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: use of these for heart health, which is just wild
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: because it's like in the tiniest writing, there's a random sentence,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: and particularly in the USA, it's got the FDA comment
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: of like, there's insufficient evidence to say that these are
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: any good for heart health, yet they are promoted by
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the American Heart association all the time, and so I guess,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: and then the question becomes, you know, well what next?
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And then we move towards things that have been used
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: for a millennium. Beef, tallow lard, you know, suet, which
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you know you can get off making broth or or cooking,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: but you can buy it from a butcher, that type
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: of thing. Olive oil is good for sort of mid
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: range temperatures. That the place I always moved to the
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: space where there's the least amount of debate in the
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: research and with professionals, and the least in might opinion,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the least amount of debate happens with avocado oil as
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the thing to cook with the hottest temperatures that you
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: can achieve in your kitchen. And actually there's a few
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: my sister's a head chef and there's a few sort
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: of famous French chefs that always cook with avocado oil
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: for that reason as well. That she follows is yeah,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: it doesn't damage. And because if you're thinking, you know,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: French cuisine and flavor, when that damage happens to the oil,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: it changes the flavor, right, It impacts the flavor. The
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: other thing to mention, which is going to sound a
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: bit conspiratorial, but there's been documentaries that that have gone
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: over this. But when you've got food great products that
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: go on the shelf of supermarkets, you don't have to
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: be super clear about what goes into them, and so
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: they have. There was an olive oil sort of test
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: done in multiple locations at ports in the world where
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: giant shipments were coming in and they were finding that
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: some of these olive oil fully branded olive oil glass
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: bottles actually had up to seventy percent cottonseed oil in them,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: so they'd been diluted to save money. And that's sort
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: of that happened. That's happened in the honey industry as well.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: It's happened in multiple industries where food grade products, you know,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: you don't have to be again super honest or clear.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: And it also can preserve it a little bit longer
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: because once the oil is oxidized, it doesn't have much
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: more changing to do, so it means it's more stable
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: on the shelf last longer, which is exactly why vegetable
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: oils are used in all of the bagger box or
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: canned foods that you can buy anywhere, because it keeps
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: them shelf stable and it does the oxidizing instead of
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the food oxidizing itself. Yeah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Now the olive oil, I had read that research and
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: actually the mafia are massively involved in olive oil. And
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: that's why I see the people, you're gonna buy olive oil,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: which we use heaps of olive oil. We also have
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: avocado oil, and we have large and we have.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Gay and so.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so that's I always say to people, if
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: you're cooking a steak, that's when you need something that
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: is saturated fat, right, because I think helping are people
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: our listeners to understand is saturated means it's saturated with
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: carbon bonds, which means it's more stable under heat. So
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: I always say to people, you're gonna buy olive oil,
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: which I highly recommended you to get extra virgin olive oid,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: but buy Australian produced olive oil because the import stuff
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: is the stuff that is highly highly I don't know
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: if you've seen anything to the contrary about Australian extra
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: virgin olive oil, but that's the stuff that I tend
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: to buy.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Hopefully tell me that it's diluted as well.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Well. I haven't seen anything though, and I mean not
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: that this is possible for many people. And you know,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: you and I were in this world of health. But
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: you know, if if the farm's somewhere that you can
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: drive past, or they're a business that has some kind
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: of shop front or open door policy, you know, that's
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: sort of a green flag for me, you know, and
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: sort of you know, we've got brands here in Victoria
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: that allow you to sort of go there and you
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: can go to the farm where the olives are picked,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and yeah, and so the more of that that we have,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: the more transparency in the farming practices, for me, that's
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: a green flag. It's like if anybody can pull off
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the you know, their road trip and go and visit
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: one of these places and see what's done. Sure, a
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: lot of the time we don't know what we're actually
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: looking at, but it's interesting. But that's sort of a
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: look in the right sort of a tick in the
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: right direction, if you like.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, cool, Okay, let's not because we could talk about
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: this stuff all day, but I think I think that
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: the basic is is don't buy freaking vegetaboil. It's bullshit, right,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: And don't listen to all the nonsense that's out there
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: that's not talk about emotional eating, so you're much closer
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: to this than I am.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: What sort of incidents of this do we think?
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: How common is it?
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, before you answer that question, I always say
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: to people when I'm in workshops, you know, when you're stressed,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: who goes for alcohol? Who goes for food? The people
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: who go for food? Is it salary sticks and carrot sticks?
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: And it's obviously not because our brains have worked out
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: to this point how to deal with stress, and my
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: brain basically goes, I'll sort that shit out. Just bring
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: me a bottle of wine and we're all good. Right,
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: But we have those learned responses to stress. Right, But
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: how common do you think it is amongst most males
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: and females.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's more common in females, bus it's equally
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: terrible in men. Like, It's not like it's only one
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: percent of men. I think. You know, a lot of
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: women have challenges in that space, and there's a lot
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of reasons equally men. Like, we just have to look
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: at the average trading Now, if we get to a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: construction site upon a time, you know, in the Western world,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: at least you go to a construction site and that
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: was the big burly men, right, That was the guys
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that were jacked. They were naturally ripped. They're lifting concrete
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: all day. And now't you think generally you think, oh,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: I'll go to a construction site and it's sort of
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the overweight guys. You know, so and you know smogo
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: is you know, pies and that kind of thing. You
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: go to the Hamburgers and whatnot and cans of coke
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: The amount of times I go to the airport early
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: and I stop in to get petrol and there's a
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: bunch of treaties coming in and they're buying sausage rolls
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: or pies from those petrol stations and two cans of
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: v or two massive kinds of mother And I'm thinking.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but so I mean, and you could obviously
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: kick off a debate around whether it's emotional eating or
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: whether it's just what we've got access to, which is
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: a fair argument because the system's not working in anyone's favor, right,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's more common in women. But also, yeah,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I got plenty of men reach out. I've worked with
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: a bunch of men in this space, and I guess Yeah.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: The reason that it is so common, I would say,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: first and foremost is actually less about human resilience and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: more about the system that we are a part of.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: You know, you go to the supermarket, you know, you
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: hit with all of these advertisements and colors, and the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: supermarket design is laid out by psychologists, you know, behavioral psychologists,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: so they can successfully, you know, manipulate your behavior there unconsciously.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: And you know we've got kids shows and billboards and
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: advertising with social media. You know, I am a nutritionist
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: that I put on my YouTube workouts which I've been
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: doing for years, and I still get hit with KFC
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: ads all the time. I'm like, my behavior has not
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: shown in the data in the algorithm, Like why is
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: this relevant to me? But I still get hit with
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: those ads. You know.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Interesting thing about supermarket layer, It's just a little comment.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: I did a bunch of work with a food manufacturer
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: over in New Zealand. Should remain nameless, but I was
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: working with the leadership team and we're having a discussion
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: which I was privy to you about one of the
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: large supermarkets wanting them to produce very cheap home branded bread.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: And there was the negotiation around it, and it was like, well,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: if you do do this for us, we will give
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: your products the best shelf space, and particularly the stuff
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: at the end of the isles, because the stuff that's
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: at the end of the isles is the stuff that
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: sells the most, and those products are generally paying to
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: be placed there. Right, there's so much psychology in the supermarkets,
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: you know, and also that they know that kids are
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: often have the purchasing part, so a lot of the
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: ship food is down at kids'.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: High heights as well. Right, There's just there's so much
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: stuff goes into this.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Even Cereal box design. So you'll notice that Cereal obviously
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: has characters, yes, because children related.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Characters should not be selling food.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: But if you notice their eyes, often if you look
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: at the boxes, the eyes are pointing down right in
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: the design because the children are looking up right interests.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I'm manipulative.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Just ridiculous anyway, So we were talking about emotion leating.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: So if somebody does emotionally and and I presume.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: There is a continuum around emotional eating, yeah, you know,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: I just I like to have chocolate because it's nice
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: to This is where I go might go to when
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I'm stressed. And so talk us through that continuum and
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: where does it really start to become problematic.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're totally right, because there's a whole dialogue around
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: is emotionally eating always bad? Right? And I would say no,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: because culture, tradition, social cohesion, in particular scenarios, all of
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: those things are important. And for a millennia we have
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: gathered around tables and celebrated and welcomed people with food
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: because it's a resource, you know, because humans need it
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and so it's a value, and so it's important, right,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: And sometimes we get clients come through our programs that
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: are sort of and I'm just going to use arbitrary numbers,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: but say I want to lose twenty kilograms. It's amazing, Okay,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: let's do that. But then we sort of do a
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: bit of the emotional analysis and the Friday night pizza
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: night with the boys or my kids or whatever that
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: is that is not worth giving up. That is such
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: an important social cohesive memory, making happiness, you know, sort
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: of a situation that it's like, well, actually, maybe the
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: goal needs to be fifteen killers, right and so and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: so that's going to be different for everybody. And so,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and as you said, where does it become harmful? Where's
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the line on that sort of spectrum? And I would
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: say for most people is you know, you need to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: decide that for yourself. When does it become harmful? Because
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's harmful. And there's nothing worse
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: than giving the brain two sets of rules for the
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: same food, which is the idea that on Saturday night
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: at a birthday party, cake's okay, but Monday's not. So
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: it's like, hang on, so the same food is bad
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and good. That's kind of confusing, right, when we're tired,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: when we're stressed, when we're busy, we don't want those
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: things in the brain. We don't want those confusing scenarios.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: So my approach personally is basically that we destigmatize all
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: food and we just check in with how our body feels,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: like do I feel healthy? Do I feel okay? Right,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: and so that we're not stigmatizing food, because when we
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: stigmatize food, it triggers people's rebellion. You know, a lot
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: of people either had parents that were really restrictive, or
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: they've got a partner that's restricted the way right, yeah,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: or food is the only place in their life where
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: they feel like they can rebel and break the rules
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: because everything else, or another way to look at it
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: is food is another place where the core human need
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of variety is being met. Life is I'm stuck in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: my job that I hate because of the mortgage. I'm
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: in a marriage, it's not going well, the kids drive
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: me crazy. I need some I need someone else, And
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: so food is the access point of variety, right, And
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I can have a bit of this
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: today or a bit of that today, but the rest
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of my life is Monday and yeah, yeah, So there's
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: so many ways in which we enter this conversation because
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of people here emotional eating and they just
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: think super depressed woman on the couch who got dumped
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: by a boyfriend eating ice cream.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, that's the stereotype.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: So when we think of where this thing starts, right,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: I think we all probably grew up with food as
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: a reward, didn't we. You know, it's that whole you've
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: been good, so you can have ice cream, or you've
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: been good to you can have chocolate.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: How much does that play a role in all of this?
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And that then subconscious association of food with reward, you
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: know how big is that in all of this or
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: is it just like you know, that's just is what
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: it is.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Well, I think I think it starts one thing and
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: it evolves over time, which is that it starts for
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: some people in that Yeah, that idea of reward and
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that they've got that means they've got approval, they're doing
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: the right thing, they're moving in the right direction, and
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: maybe that they're you know, we're talking about adults now,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: maybe they're trying to access that sense of love or
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: acceptance that they felt from their father in that moment,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: which outside of that moment, he was a very loving
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: And the thing about trying to eat memories is that
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: you can't eat the part right, I love it, so
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: so yeah, you know, it can be the situations like
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: that we were trying to, you know, have the access
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to these feelings which we once felt before. But you know,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: we're moving in this space, I guess, of trying to
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: recreate it and instead we're rewarding ourself. But the reward
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: evolves into something new, which is life is hard. So
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to reward myself all of the time rather
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: than I did the good thing. Now I deserve a
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: reward and so where it started is maybe not how
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: it's showing up now, but it is this idea of oh,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: that don't mean hit, or that particular food or that
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: particular wine always reminds me of that this scenario that
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: where I got validated at seven. But now it's got
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: a different meaning, which is that everything is hard and
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: nobody cares about me, and ever I'm ignored. And I
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: hear this a lot from mums because they're they're running
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: the household, they're looking after Hubby, looking after the kids,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: They've forgotten about, and so the only time where I'm
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: prioritized is when the wine cares about the chocolate cares
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: about me.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Time.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely no.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: Before we get into some strategies around emotional leading, because
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: I do want to get into that when people have
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: an unhealthy relationship with food, ninety nine times out of
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: one hundred are going to put on wit and then
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: very often that the an going to go okay, I
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: need to go on a diet, and they go on
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: a diet for a certain mere period of time, realize
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: that that diet is unsustainable, then come off the diet,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: back to their habits, and then kick the can down.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: The rule for x amount of time and then we're
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: back on it. Why is that cycle? And we all
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: know these people right who their diet's pretty crap, and
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: then they will just go on a diet or they'll
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: go on the sheiks for a couple of months and
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: then they'll lose with it, and then.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: They're back to their original diet again. Why is that
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: a bad idea?
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Well, the number one cause of weight gain is dieting,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: right yeah. And the reason for that is, in my opinion,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: in this Western world where like satisfaction, comfort, you know, validation,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: dopamine is so easily accessible when you deprive it in
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: a space where you haven't understood the underlying psychological drivers
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: of your behavior, it's so much easier to just you know,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: give up and go towards the things that are helpful
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: when you're so it's like, you know, it's like putting
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: a heroin addict in a heroin store and saying don't
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: don't shoot up. It's like good luck, you know. So
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: that's how I think about it, is that when you're
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: on a diet, you're basically walking around to the supermarket,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: you going to events, going to parties, and you're surrounded
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: by this, you know, this stuff that you really really want,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: and so you think about it like a spring. You
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: know that you're pushing tighter and tighter and tighter, and
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: then at some point, whether it's a week, whether it's
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: that afternoon, whether it's three months down the track, that spring,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: eventually the tension seeks release. And that's because we haven't
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: worked on the underlying motivators and drivers, some of which
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: are nutritional, some of which have Yeah, like we talked earlier,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: you're just not getting enough protein in your diet, which
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: is super common. That happens to a lot of people,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: even people that you know describe themselves theirselves as healthy eaters.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: And then the other part of it is the psychology,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: you know, and that is the why do I go
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: towards this dopamine? You know, when I'm not hungry, when
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I don't need food, even if I've eaten a steak
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: for dinner, Am I still looking for something sweet afterwards?
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: You know? Was there nutrition missing from dinner? Or you know,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: am I just so naked and worn out that I
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: need something sort of material? They go to push the
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: biological cortisole back down, you know, rather than do something
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: that's truly coming, which is breathwork or meditation or you know,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: because a lot of the things we add in, even
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: though in the moment the dopamine and serotonin and that
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: cocktail makes us feel good, they are inevitably just more
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: stress on the pile of stress.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: You shit later on, and then you've got regret and
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: all of that. I will never forget to.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: My master's Jesus nearly twenty five years ago in nutrition
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: and them talking about a research study from Yale University
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: where they had identified that people who were on diets
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: suffer from and you describe it beautifully with the spring.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: They are in constant high cognitive dietary restraint, which is
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: a giky academic way of saying, I'm obsessing about the
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: stuff that I'm not eating, and I'm obsessing about it
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: all the time. And eventually that obsession becomes so much that,
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: as you said, the spring just goes bull and then
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: then they're off the diet. Now, physiologically, I think that
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: becomes a massive issue, right because when people go on
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: a calorie restricting diet, they will lose water first, as
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: you will know, Then they'll lose muscle, and then they'll
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: lose some fat, and then when they realize their diet
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: is unsustainable, they put the water on quite quickly, or
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: the water will balance right after a waterless or a really.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Low carb diet.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: But the water comes back on, then fat comes on
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: and the muscle doesn't come back, and then you get
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: back to your normal weight eighty ninety kilos whatever it
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: might be, but you're proportionally more fat and less muscle.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: That means you're resting, metabolic rate is lower. So you
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: go back on the same habitual diet and you actually
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: put on some weight and then you end up at
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: a higher weight eventually after the diet, and then you
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: go through the bloody cycle again, right.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: And we end up being really low.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: In terms of our muscle, and that caused a cyclopenia
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: and nostropenia, which in themselves are horrendous. Right, So people
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: are just by constantly going through this cycle that are
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: actually making their body composition worse and worse as the
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: ege and then they hit friggin middle age and then
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: the wheels come off.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Well. In that process, you're also disregulating your thyroid, which
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: regulates thirty sixty percenty of its metabolism.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: Grant points do a bit of a dive on the
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: thiret because there's a lot of people out there who go,
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: I put on with it because my thyroid is not
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: working properly.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Word does it all start?
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the thyroids responsible for a significant portion of
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: your metabolic rate, and so if you start sort of
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: pushing it to extremes, it starts to downregulate your metabolism
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: and the reason which makes it harder and harder to
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: lose weight as you go. And you know, that's sort
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: of the group of people that I work with've often
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: been on a diet for somewhere between ten to thirty
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: years in some variation, and each time you come you
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: go into a hyper restrictive calorie diet, you tell the
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: thyroid and the evolutionary sort of markers in your body that, hey,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: we've been here before historically in our genome, and whenever
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: there's a famine, whenever there's not much around, we need
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: to lower the metabolic rate to save the fat that's
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: on the body. And this might be the person that's like,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: every time we go on a diet, I don't lose anything.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: You might be at that point, right, because the thyroid
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: and other parts of your body are sort of saying
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: we need to hold onto this as long as we can,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: because if we're going to go through a famine, then
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: you know, we need to survive it. And then you
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: add back in all of the food when you decide
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: to either give up or you're sick of the restriction,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: or you've changed your mind on what you want to do.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: And then in this lower metabolic state, we've just added
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: tons of calories that are also saying to your system, hey,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: the famine's over, quick, grab everything, put it in storage
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: so that we're not here again in this situation. And
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: so so that's why we gain the weight back so suddenly,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and often more than when you begin at the beginning,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: and over that time you can really damage the thyroid
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and end up meeting you know, drugs because you're T
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: three T four are sort of out of whack, and
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: the common tests that GPS will do these days because
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: so many people have thyroid issues.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And then you're add in psychological stress into
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: that as well from just life in general, and in
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: psychological stress about my wit, and that then further impacts
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: hormones and all sorts of stuff.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Now, this has been very depressing to this point.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: For the listener, right listening just to rip on about
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: how people are completely destroying themselves. So let's let's throw
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: our listener a rope so that they can clamber back out.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: So where do you start with people ryan who have
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: issues around food that are largely psychological, which which most
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: people's issues with food are generally yes.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: So simply getting them to change nothing in the beginning,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: which is that you take a little bit of a
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: stop take of the normal life. Because the way I
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: think about it is if you pull over and you
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: know your car's smoking from the bonnet and you don't
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: lift the bonnet up, you don't know what's wrong. You
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: don't know what we need to fix. You're just like, oh,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: my car's ruined. And it's like, well, is it your
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: car or is it the fuel pump? Right? And so
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: we need to we need to figure out where the
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: fuel pump is in your life, which is we need
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: to document food that I eat, What do I eat?
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: You know, this doesn't matter what you eat, it's just
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: we're documenting it. And then we follow it up with
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: where was I what's the location, and what are the
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: emotions that I'm feeling? And many people in that phase
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: will realize they don't actually know what emotion they're feeling.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: You know that then often not in a situation or
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: have never been in a situation where they have been
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: guided to feel their stuff and know what is like,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: is it anger? Is it sadness, is it happiness? You
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: know what's going on? So we want to collect that
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: location food emotion because first and foremost we want to
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: identify where the problem, Well, where is the problem? What
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: is the problem because Saturday night cake, birthday party probably
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: not a problem, but Tuesday morning, Wednesday morning, Thursday morning
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: cake might be unhelpful. Yeah, right, And so we need
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: to figure out where that problem is. And then once
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: we know what it is, and usually in that first
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks of just self awareness practices, people start
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: to realize they're like, oh, I always eat chocolate when
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I'm tired. Well, I always drink wine wine when I've
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: had a bad day. And you know, we're trying to
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: make these patterns really obvious, and then we sort of
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: dig into the why the wine or why the chocolate
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: is the solution, and that could simply be circumvented, like
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: we've already talked about by getting the lunch or the
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: meal before correct or diving into all of the emotional
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: reasons why chocolate's a good idea in that particular moment.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: So it's very methodical in the sense that we look
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: at the past, find what's broken, deep dive on that,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and sometimes, to be totally honest, that can end up
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: at I was sexually traumatized at five. That can be
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: some really heavy stuff. But I'm not one of those
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: people that's like everyone's got trauma, we're all broken. Sometimes
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: it's like, Oh, I just got this idea from Cabury
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Marketing and it's happened for forty.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Years, you know, and it's so lovely, I can't stop.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes that's it, you know, and I won't even
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: argue that's that's sometimes more difficult to work on because
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: there's not much to heal there, you know. But some
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: of the deepest stuff we can make significant shifts with
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: because once we start reconciling and healing and just giving
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: voice to some of this stuff which has been suppressed
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: for so long that food we're using food to suppress. Literally,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: the physical action of eating is like stopping words from
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: coming out of our mouth. If we think about that,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: more like in a philosophical sense, we're plugging the whole.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: That would verbalize the problem. And Freud talks a little
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: bit about it as well in regards to, you know,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: the fixation that we have with the mouth and putting
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: things in the mouth to stop things coming out, and
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's some really great psychological
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: analyses on that obsession with our mouth. But anyway, but yeah,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: so we start look at the past, figure out why
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: it's here, learn a bit of emotional literacy, and start
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: getting people to connect with emotions and understand their emotions
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and give sort of labels to their emotions, which helps
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: people feel much more in control of themselves if they
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: can identify what is happening inside me.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: That near it to temid thing.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Right, we're acknowledging an emotion and actually saying to you
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: either saying out loud if there's not people around here
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: going to think you're bonkers, or just saying it in
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: your head what emotion you're actually feeling. Actually reduces the
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: intensity of the emotion.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Right, So I love that.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: You bring that in and then around the whole built environment, right,
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: what are your tips around out? They'll give you a
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: little story just to give you a bit of time
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: to think about this, because these.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Questions are not scripted at all. Right, we're free wheeling.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: But years ago when I was boxing, and my longstanding
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: issue never really been an issue with food, but alcohol
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: being arison ex military, right, which again gives you an
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: excuse to do the stuff that you shouldn't really be doing.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: But alcohol was the thing that I really had to
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: cut down. And I found that changing the way that
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: I walked home was really important because I would walk
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: home past Dan Murphy's and there would be times that
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: I'd be walking home. I even had a boxing training
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: session feeling really good, and I'm walking home when I
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: walk passed by Murphy's and then all of a sudden,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: I find myself walking out of the shop with a
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: bottle of wine without even thinking about it. Right, So
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: that habit chill thing. And then I took it a
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: step further of just getting alcohol out of the house,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: and then it became a kes of, well, if I
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: want to drink, I've got to really really want to drink,
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: because I've actually got to go out of the house
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: and go and get it. And I would only buy
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: enough for that evening, right, so that kind of lands
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: in that's leading the wetness a little bit. Around strategies
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: for people around their built environment to help them to
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: manage food. What sort of things do you do or recommend.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly what you described is changing the way that
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: you walk home, changing the way that you drive to
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: and from work. You know, if you drive home past
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: KFC and you smell that, you smell it and you're
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: just like, oh, you know what, amazing, let's go when
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: you're tired and worn out, you know, you've got to
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: go a different way. Maybe even things like changing up
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: the way that your house is laid out. And I
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: know that sounds silly, but if you've been in the
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: same house and same environment where the problem happens for
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: twenty five years or even three years, it might simply
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: be rearranging the lound room, you know, so that you're
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: psychologically it's a different space. It's a new chapter. We've
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: changed something. I like that.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: That's cool.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that extension goes to the bedroom. It even
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: goes to And this is like a big concept or
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: like a big step. But some people, during this process
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: of going through the work that I do, a lot
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: of it is sort of reclaiming themselves is that they've
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: been violating their boundaries and not respecting themselves for a
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: long time. And what comes with that sometimes is the
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: cutting out of family members or people that are really destructive,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: that are, you know, not being nice to you. And
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: sometimes that can lead to people finding their voice and
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: saying something they've never said to someone for twenty years.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: And you know, because now we're pack animals and fundamentally
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: we want to have a sense of belonging because that
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: means evolutionary safety, survival. And so once you build up
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: a bit of courage, and also you're starting to identify
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: your values with a new group of slightly healthier people,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: you might think, oh, I actually don't need that person
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: that's been, you know, by whoever it's been bringing me
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: down my entire life or telling me that I'm awful
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: or that good things will never happen to me, or
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: my abusive husband or you know, and sometimes they're the
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: reasons why we're eating, you know, is that we're just
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: perpetuating the information or the belief that they've pumped into
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: our head. So rearranging our physical location, the relationships of
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: life that might need attention as well, because that just
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: there's another layer of our environment, could be finding a
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: new job. You know, maybe you're unexcited, you hate your job,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: and so the excitement you get is at you know,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: ten am and three pm when everybody walks down to
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: get coffee and cake. You know, that's the excitement of the.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Day, right, yep yep.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Another interesting little tip is to put healthy food right
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: at the front of the fridge and the pantry, because
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: the research shows you're much more likely to reach to
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: eat the first thing that you actually see. So hiding
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: this that you know, ideally you'd have most of that
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: shit out of your house. And by the way, stop
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: fregging blaming your children for your compulsion of buying shit food.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, I buy it for the kids. The kids don't
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: frigging need it any more than you do.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: Right, there's so many people, Oh, I'm buying this for
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: the kids, but it's actually they're buying it for them,
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: but they're just justifying it for the kids.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: So well, the other just one other little thing I
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: was going to mention the food thing in the fridge,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: is that a lot of people associate healthy with boring.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: You have to put a little bit of time and
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: energy into figuring out two three four meals two three
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: four snacks that are genuinely delicious. Thing, Yeah, you look
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: forward to eating like you you put it in your
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: mouth and you're like, oh, like this is awesome. I
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: love this and it's healthy. How amazing is that? You know? Yeah?
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's a very good strategy actually, because if
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: we do still need to enjoy our food, right, that's
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: the key thing. You can't live a life eating bland stuff.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: Well you can't, but you've probably got authorexia, which is
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: another different conversations. So high then, So that's a little
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: bit of guidance around people setting up the built environment.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: There's lots you've.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Talked about about really understanding the levers. A couple of
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: things I want to talk about.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: You did mention the word values.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: I'm massive on this one, and look for me to
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: again to to to throw out the alcohol example.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: The one thing that has massively.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: Lowered my alcohol consumption to the point where I might
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: have to give up my Irish passport is connecting to
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: the value of authenticity. So being authentic is a dig
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: beheld value of mind. I talk about a lot of
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: this stuff in front of people, but For me, it's
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: about I can't stand up and talk about the stuff
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: if I'm not doing the behavior.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: So for me, it's being authentic.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Is the stuff that drives me to get out of
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: bed at half past five in the morning, like I
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: did this morning, jump into my freezing cold swimming pool
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: before getting on call.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Right, But it's also.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: That authenticity was the stuff that actually made me significantly
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: cut down. So what do you How much do you
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: do on values and do you have any guiding principles
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: for people around unlocking their values and helping focusing on
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: those and on their journey.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, except we do it through a lens of motivation.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that when I
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: get people to do at the beginning is to do
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: it sort of a hierarchy or a pyramid sort of
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: if you imagine a pyramid of a hierarchy of motivations.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: And the way that I think about it is that
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: some days you'll wake up and you'll want the abs,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: you know, you want to lose weight, and you're like, today,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to the gym because yeah, I want to
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: look good, I want to look hot, you know, I
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: want to have some good sex. Whatever it is, you know,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: and for the woman it might be something similar, or
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: it might be I want the bikini body. Let's go,
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: and then you'll wake up tomorrow and you know and
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: be like, you know what, fuck the ABS, I don't care, right,
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: And so this hierarchy of priorities is that the idea
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: here is that on the day that priority one doesn't
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: work or motivation one doesn't work, is that you go
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: to the next layer of depth. And for me, so
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: the thing one is like fit, healthy, attractive body, right,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: that I'm proud of and that other people can look
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: at and be like, oh, MATI is a fit guy. Right.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: And layer two when I'm like, who cares about abs?
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Like it's you know, that's so superficial, Matti, like get deeper.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: But day two is about my mental health, right yeah.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: And it's like it's like, Okay, sure, don't care about
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: apps today, but I know that for long periods of
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: time of not physically exercising, I can go to some
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: pretty dark places in my head and so awesome. Then
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: level three might be you're the host of the how
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: to Not Get Sick and Die podcast, like you can't
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: be seeing which is the authenticity one, right, Yeah? And
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: So this is what I get people to do is
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: layers of motivations. And it's like, when the other five
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: motivations don't work, what gets you out. It might not
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: be a weight loss, right, that's yeah. It might not
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: be weight loss. It might not be mental health that day,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: but it might be that if I don't do this
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: for my kids, I'm going to have sick kids. You
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: know that'll die young. Right, But another day it might
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: be the weight loss that gets you motivated.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: Classic self determination theory by Dakie and Ryan right crossing
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: the Threshold of autonomy.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you a little story on this one.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: The best one I've ever seen is that some leady
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: stopped me in the street years ago and grab me
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: and went Paul Taylor, and she went, you made me
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: cry in front of about three hundred people. And I
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: started apologizing and she's like, no, no, no, it's all good.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: And it turns out she'd work for a big life insurer.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: I'd done a workshop and we were talking about behavior change,
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: health behavior change, and I asked if there was anybody
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: who was struggling to change the behavior and was happy
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: to do role play, and she jumped straight up, and
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: so went me, and I went, okay, so what behavior
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: you want to change? And she said I want to
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: stop smoking. I'm like, okay, why is that important to you, right?
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: And she said because it's not good for my health.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: And then I dug and I dug and I dug
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: and then she just burst into tears and she said,
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: my two kids, who are eight and six, came into
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: my room last week in floods of tears because the
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: eight year old saw on ad for her own TV
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: that says smoking causes lung cancer. And she said they
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: had been to my mother's funeral three months ago and
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: somebody had talked about her dying of lung cancer. So
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: the eight year old made the connection told this little brother,
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: mom's going to die. And they both came into the
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: room and going, Mum, we don't want you to die.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: And I said to her, bingo, there's your why, because
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: I was talking about finding your why, right, And I said,
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: you need to remember that every single day, right, and
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: get up in the morning.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Go just for today, I'm not going to smoke and
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: remember your why. And you know, she showed me.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: She tattooed her foot and it said remember your why,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: and she had the insieles of her two little boys.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: And she said she she tweaked what I'd advised her.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: And she said she'd stand in the shower every day
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: in the morning and she'd look at her foot and
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: she'd go, just for today, I'm not going to smoke.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: And she said she started wearing open top shoes to work,
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: and she made a deal she was allowed to smoke
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: if she looked at her foot first. And she said,
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: on at least one hundred occasions she went for the cigarettes,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: remembered her deal, and that's when she looked at her foot, right,
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: And that's so impressive, right, So tattoos people, tattoos by
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: the way ahead if you want to change your behavior.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's alsome. And it's the same, do you know?
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: But but my theory with the sort of hierarchy is
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: that sometimes the core why isn't powerful enough Because you're tired,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: because you you know, because you're tired, because the kids
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: are annoying, because work sucks, because bad luck's coming your way, whatever.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: So we need multiple that might need to leverage you
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: up to sort of be like, all right, with a
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: bit of this and a five percent of that one
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: and ten percent and fifty percent. Yeah, all right, I'll
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: do the healthy thing.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes you probably don't need to roll out
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: to big guns, right, sometimes your first level one.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: That's why I really like what you're saying about having
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: that that hierarchy of motivations because it's different levers that
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: you can pull at different times.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, so big question. I know with what we don't
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: have much left, But I got to ask you this
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: million dollar question. So many people self sabotage. What are
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: some of the things that people can do to help
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: them not to self suppotize?
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: And why do we do it?
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: That's that is the million dollar question. Why do we
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: self sabotage? Why does any human do anything that's not
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: helpful for themselves? Right? Because any animal that is not
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: under human control is one hundred percent looking after themselves
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: or the tribe, right, So we're one of the only
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: animals that's self destructive in that way. But I think
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of psychological reasons why we do it.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Some people grow up with the narrative that they're you know,
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: they're not good enough. Yep, Yeah, that's a huge one.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be social. I can't be seen to
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: be doing too well Australia is really bad for toppy syndrome.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: So we bring ourselves back down, you know, we want
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: to make sure that again we belong and we fit
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: in and that we're not judged. And if you stick
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: your head up too high, you might get a chopped
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: to hoff that type of thing. But I think the
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: main thing is that we need to create an enviiral
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: where it's okay to succeed or we're celebrated for progress.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Another little strategy for self sabotage. And I'm not sure
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: if you've heard anyone talk about this before, but is
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: that there's somewhere in many people's core needs or drivers
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: for their life is like rebellion and fighting against the system.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: And that might have been I'm a really oppressive parent,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: and I would say that that's me, right. I'm the
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: person who is naturally extroverted, like really sort of out there,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: challenging every boundary, pushing everything. And so I have learned
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: that if I do not have an outlet for that rebellion,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: it comes out in my relationship, in my food. And
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: so what I literally gave this to one of my
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: one on one clients yesterday. I said, go and put
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: together a list of ways in your life, anywhere in
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: your life or anywhere in the world where you could
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: actively engage in rebellion that allows that part of yourself
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: to be nourished. For me, leaving the medical system and
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: running a podcast called House and Not Get Sick and
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Die is my rebellion. Racing go karts every Wednesday night
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: is part of my rebellion, right, And so when I
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: scratched that rebellion itch, it doesn't come out in unhelpful,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: unhealthy ways in my day to day life.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: That is super interesting. You know, my wife Carlie's going
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: to be listening to this and going, that's you.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: He's talking about you, right, because for me and then
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: it's linked to rebellion. Novelty is a big fan of novelty.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: And I'm always wanting to move house every few years.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: I want to move house. And we're in a freaking
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: great house a minute.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: And I was a couple of years ago agitating to
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: move house, and then Carly said to me, can you
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: just piss off and satisfy your novelty gene in some
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: way other than us having to uproot and completely move
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: our house.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: And then I realized, actually, yes, I do.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: I love a bit of novelty in there, so I'm
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: finding it in different ways.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: But that's really interesting.
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: Right, So, Maddie, I could go on all day because
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: this is a super interesting conversation, but all good things
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: must come to an end. But I think all of
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: our listeners would have got a great amount of value
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: out of this. So tell us where can the listeners
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: go to find out more about your products and offering
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: and any courses that you might be offering for the public.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, just similar to this podcast, I've got to
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: show how to Not Get Sick and Die, which you've
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: been on before, Paul, So whichever podcast app you're on,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: check that out how to Not Get Sick and Die.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: We're always the four hundred episodes, which is pretty cool.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Also my website Maddie Lansdowne dot com. And yeah, we
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: run an emotional binge and overeating program called Mind Body Nourishment,
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: which is for anyone that's sort of done ten twenty
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: thirty years dieting back and forth, back and forth, and
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: can't figure out why they won't do the thing they
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: know that they should. So we help help that kind
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: of person man or women. So feel free to reach
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: out