Latest / The Payments Shed / Ep. 25 - Filling the Funnel: How Krowd is Powering Customer Acquisition and Seamless Engagement for Restaurants

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Ep. 25 - Filling the Funnel: How Krowd is Powering Customer Acquisition and Seamless Engagement for Restaurants · The Payments Shed

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Welcome to the Payment Shed podcast, the weekly podcast that
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dives into the big topics, trends and people shaping the
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world's payments, fintech and business leadership of your two
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Co hosts, myself Grant Evans and Justin Hanna.
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Welcome to another episode of the Payment Shed Podcast.
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Today we are joined by Omar Raffi, CEO and Co founder of
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Crowd and Johnny Fox, partnerships director of crowd.
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Thanks for joining us guys. Hello, please can we get a brief
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introduction and a bit of background from from you both on
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how you got into the wonderful world of fintech?
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Yeah, thanks for for having us. Yeah, my background has nothing
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to do with fintech. I started as an oil trader at
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Shell. So let's say I'm repenting from
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my sins. You know, help helping
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restaurants today probably is the best way to start repenting
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from those sins. But no, I got into this in 2019,
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so we joined the Tech Stars Barclays Accelerator program and
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the idea was to build a loyalty program for the Barclays Bank
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and that's what opened our eyes to the world of fintech and card
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linked offers. Very good, Johnny.
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My background is running IT for restaurants and retail.
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So I've been doing this for 15 plus years and yeah, now I've
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been with crowd for near come out three years sitting on the
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other side of the fence, which is which is very nice.
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Slightly more relevant sort of crossover into restaurants than
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oil trade. So we're teaching them
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everything. We know you.
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Know. So, so what's the origin story
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then I guess fit for crowd? Obviously Barclays was the was
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the sort of initiator, but but what sort of brought you to the
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world of loyalty? So actually started before
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Barclays where as an oil trader, because I traveled a lot,
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finding the best restaurant was difficult because it was the
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best restaurant for the average Joe and not for me personally.
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You know, average ratings, the top ranked or it's a bloggers
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based view on the best restaurant.
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So we built an algorithm that predicted based on my three
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favorite restaurants, what other restaurants would be very good
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for me. Kind of like Netflix.
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When they you first sign up to Netflix, they ask you what
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movies you like. We did the same thing.
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Anyway, there's no money in it. So we somehow stumbled upon the
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fact that banks are somehow using transaction data to give
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customers good quality offers. And we're like, oh, that's
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interesting And what better offer is there than a restaurant
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offer? So that was my foray into into
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the world we're in now. Very.
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Good. And I guess what problem then
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were you trying to solve and was there a specific gap in the
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market because you know there would have been other platforms
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kind of in this nation, I'm sure.
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But what were you kind of leaning into is your key
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differentiator? Yeah.
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I mean, when we first found it, we said, OK, interesting
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products, really rich data, obviously transaction data, so
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you understand customer behavior.
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But it was very utilitarian and that all the offers are Tesco 2%
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cash back or B&Q or, you know, places that cycled.
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I always say no one wakes up in the morning saying, honey, we're
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going to Tesco this weekend because there's 3% cash back,
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right? So they thought they were
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missing something in this whole loyalty for banking customers.
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And, you know, when you've got so many cards, how do you decide
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to use that card over the other card?
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And we said experiences really builds loyalty.
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And, you know, travel is probably the biggest experience,
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but it doesn't happen enough. So we said we need a frequent
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experience and that was food, right?
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I mean, we said top three spend typically and everybody enjoys
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eating out. So if we could power those
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experiences, a birthday, anniversary, just going out with
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friends and it's powered by the bank, that's what's going to
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build loyalty. That's going to build that
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subconscious or conscious association of that experience
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to the bank. So we felt that was a big
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missing gap, which is what we're feeling now.
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So that's quite different obviously from traditional
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loyalty like you mentioned there.
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How did that philosophy that you first were talking about
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developing to kind of the next phase of an iteration of the
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business? Yeah, I mean, you know, starting
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off as a as a bank, sorry, as an app, BTC app giving restaurant
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recommendations to actually seeing transaction data to give
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real recommendations based on the transaction data seemed like
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a no, no brainer. Plus I didn't need to acquire
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customers. Customers are already there,
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saves you a bit of money. But yeah, I mean, it's in, in
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the, in the end of the day, you know what, what we want to do
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and what you know, what we're very passionate about.
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And if you look at the team itself, beyond just giving those
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banks a good customer base who are loyal through through the
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offers that we're providing, we're actually helping
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restaurants fill empty seats and and drive spend their way.
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And we're super passionate about that.
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I mean, everybody in my team comes from the hospitality
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industry. They've all worked either as AGM
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or as a waiter, waitress or marketing director.
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Johnny was head of IT. I've now got a small little
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restaurant out in Harrow as well.
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So I, I feel the pain of, of the restaurant industry.
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So you know. That be your Guinea pig customer
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by. Any chance you know the amount
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of text acts we've put through that restaurant?
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Just test things out. So it's hugely rewarding to be
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able to actually, you know, support this industry.
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And Johnny, you, you sort of joined the journey slightly
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later on in the process. Of so so it was it was not a way
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to meet Bilal and Omar that Bilal's our other Co founder
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based in the UK. So I was on the judging panel at
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the Hospitality Tech show. It was an innovation award.
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And Omar and Bilal had this crowd product, which was hyper
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personalization, not, not the product that we have today, but
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it was really, really interesting.
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And we chatted afterwards. And at that time I was working
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at Gaucho and I was kind of introducing Omar and Balau to
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some people that I knew in the industry and helping them kind
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of get some insight into what restaurants would look for, for
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this app, but wouldn't when when they kind of moved into the card
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linking world. It was kind of when you've got a
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big bank on board, then I'd really like to come on on board
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full time. And that was Amex.
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So as soon as they they got the Amex offer, I remember I was in
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Spain and having dinner and Omar phoned me saying, we've just
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signed the contract with Amex. And I've pretty much said I'll
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be back in two weeks, I'll see you in the office.
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So when you've got a big bank, there'll be more job security
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for the overcrowds. That's how my wife thought about
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it. Very good.
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So yes, that's so. I knew the guys for a couple of
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years before I came on board and yeah, it's it's been a great
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journey. And that was order and pay a
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table back then, yeah. So we had pivoted from our first
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BTC app to order and pay a table before.
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Order and pay a table was what? And this this this overarched
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with COVID, presumably so. Well, that was terrible timing
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because in 2019 we come into Barclays saying, hey, you know,
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if you really want to drive loyalty, give people restaurant
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offers. So they they had a contract
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ready for us, a pilot ready for us, which 2020 came in and
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absolutely destroyed everything we had in mind.
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The sector took such a huge hit right through in that time and
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people had to try and adapt as quickly as possible without
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really knowing how to adapt because no one's ever done it
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before. And there were some fast movers,
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right? And, and they probably did
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benefit from from quick decisions or big bets that they
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made. But others maybe were kind of
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looking to see what the world was doing right when it got to
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COVID. Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, and, and if you look at offers specifically pre COVID
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and post COVID, pre COVID, many restaurants were giving out
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offers left, right and center. Post COVID, they kind of took
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that step back and said we don't want to be giving offers out.
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And, and it worked well for us because the way the product is
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perceived from a consumer perspective is that it's a bank
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funded offer. So while it is merchant funded,
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so the restaurants do fund these offers, the consumer assumes
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that all because I'm an Amex customer or I'm a Barclays
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customer and I'm so, you know, they want me to stay loyal.
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They're offering these, you know, cash back rewards.
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So so restaurants were like, yeah, I'll jump onto that.
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I don't want to be on Groupon seeing being seen as desperate
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and and needing customers, but everybody needs help.
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And yeah, it kind of works out well for us, really.
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And Johnny, was there a point of when you after you joined the
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business that you realized, well, this kind of a real
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moment, it's kind of move the needle for crowd as as it moves
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forward. Yeah.
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First of all, the people that Omar brought on board who were
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really good, good leaders in the industry that knew the space
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really well. Our business, a business
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development director was XCMR Gaucho at Hawksmoor for 15 plus
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years. So that was one thing was, was
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definitely the team that we were building and then the people,
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the restaurants, the actual quality of the restaurants
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coming on board and the banks that Omar and Bilal, we call
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them publishers, they published the deals.
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They were just getting better and better.
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So yes, I and then on the tech side, the one thing that came
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out COVID, I believe that the way that the new generation of
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AP is were being developed because of the pay table apps
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that were coming through for COVID just meant it was just
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everything just hit perfectly that we were coming into this at
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the right time to do something very different.
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Makes sense now when people think of custom engagement and
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hospitality, I will hold my hand up and think whoever gives me
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the best loyalty, right, they're the business I want to speak to.
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You mention it before I'm around.
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Consumers don't always want to feel desperate when they're
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going to maybe like Groupon, whatever it might be.
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But we will know customer acquisition is extremely,
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extremely important. Why do you think customer
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acquisition has been such a tough challenge for restaurants,
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especially kind of post pandemic?
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I mean, like, there's a restaurant industry is a tough
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industry and there's always a lot of competition when, you
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know, times are tough, people are spending less, so they
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struggle to bring people in. When times are good, more
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restaurants open so that you're struggling to get, you know,
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share of mind. And I think offers have
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historically just been a really, really good way to bring
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customers and always joke according to Wikipedia, which I
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sort of trust my life on the first restaurant that ever
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existed was in 500 BC on Egypt, ancient Egypt selling Guinea
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fowl and I don't know what wild, wild grains and always joke that
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probably on Tuesdays had buy one, get one freeze, right.
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So it's always been a way to bring customers in, but it's
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never been data-driven, right. So I remember seeing once on
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Oxford St. a lady carrying a placard saying free matcha this
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way, right? So they must have paid for that
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Lady. They obviously gave away the
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free matcha. Like do they actually know what
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the ROI was in running that campaign or that offer?
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Probably not. And that's something that I
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think we've been very focused on is helping these restaurants to
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not only be able to bring customers in, but also to
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understand how they are able to bring customers in more
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efficiently, more effectively, and, and, and drive those sales
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that they really need when they need them as well.
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And yeah, customer acquisition is key, right?
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In the end of the day, loyalty is important, right?
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And loyalty is a very important product for restaurants, but you
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need to feed the funnel like a customer first needs to get in
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to join the loyalty program so you can retain them.
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And what we're kind of that feeding the funnel, we're the
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top of the funnel, bringing customers in that have maybe
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never heard of you or they've heard of you, but not taking
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that step to go. And that incentive, that cash
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back, that reward was what made them say, you know what, let me
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give it a try. I've heard of it sounds good,
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let me go and try it out. And that really works well.
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We've all done it right? We've all gone.
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I've heard of that restaurant, I've heard people talk about it
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and but I've never been. At what point do you turn into?
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I've heard about it and you know what?
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I think I'm going. To go our, our view is, is that,
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you know, a behaviour changing offer does that, right?
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So we've seen people play in the office space, especially in the
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States, for example, where you see restaurant offers at 3% cash
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back. And I always tell restaurants, I
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said, don't even bother running. Some restaurants tell me it's
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too expensive. So I won't even offer you a 5%
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cash back deal because I don't think you'll make money on that.
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You'll lose money because you'll get incidental spend and not
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incremental spend, right? So if me seeing a 3% offer, a 5%
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offer, is that going to drive me to change my behaviour to go to
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the restaurant or am I going to go anyway?
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And oh, by the way, there was an offer.
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So therefore I got 5% off that meant the restaurant lost money
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on that. So our view is it should be a
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double digit offer for you really to be driven.
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And that behavior change where it's like, I've got two options.
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I'm going to make an active decision to go to that second
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option because there's a reward that's that's worth it for me.
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I think that you know, very clearly distincts the difference
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between you guys and conventional loyalty apps and
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and how like you say that top of funnel piece, right, that
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they're really partners of yours on that partnership front.
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When you look at brands like Como and partnerships with with
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those guys and how that fits into your broader acquisition
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ecosystem, how important are those strategic partnerships for
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you guys? I guess they're a fundamentally
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vital part of of your business. Are they?
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Yeah, they are they, they, what they're doing to for, for
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keeping the customers and keeping it sticky for the
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restaurants is, is definitely important for us.
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What we're trying to do is increase that, that loyalty
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database by driving through the banks an extra.
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I mean we've got 2030 million cardholders currently through
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the different publishers that we've got a restaurant can't go
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out to 2030 million customers. We don't charge for for
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marketing or anything like that. We're a transactional based
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Commission. So we are driving brand new eyes
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to these restaurants in a way that a restaurant have to spend
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a lot of money to get to that many customers.
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And driving the what we've got with dynamic loyalty is driving
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the loyalty through the banks means that customers that don't
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sign up to a restaurant's loyalty purely for the fact that
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they don't want more spam in their inboxes or they're just,
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they're just signing up to too many or they've got too many
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physical cards or apps downloaded.
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That for us, integrating into the comos of the world, into the
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CRMS means that we can display a customer's loyalty through their
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bank banking apps. So you'll be able to see all of
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the restaurants that you've attached your card to, how many
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points you've got, if it's a double points on a Tuesday
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afternoon, that kind of thing. So we're driving it through a
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different way, but all we're doing is putting the information
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that Como has so. These banks will massively feed
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your top of funnel basically and the more banks that you bring on
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board, the bigger an upsell that then comes to other third
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parties for you guys, right? Because you talk about the 2030
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million, that level will grow and grow and grow the more
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banking partnerships that you've got in place, right?
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Yeah, we're at a stage now where we've got maybe too many
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customers where restaurants are pushing back and saying you're
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driving too many sales. And I always find that strange.
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I find this change in the restaurant and be like, Omar,
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you know, you've hit your budget.
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I'm like, what? What does that mean?
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So should I stop the people from coming inside because I've
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driven too many customers is sometimes we go over budget and
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I apologize and I say I'm sorry, I've driven too many sales your
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way. But but that's true actually,
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because I mean the end and part of our part of the way the
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product works is that because we bill for cash back.
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So the way it works really is you get an offer on your card,
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do you go and you spend the full amount.
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And we identify that transaction using the merchant ID.
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We collect the money from the restaurant and pass it to the
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publisher of the bank who puts it in as a statement credit to
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you now that while that buy one get one free that the ancient
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Egyptian restaurant hadn't, they didn't get an invoice for that
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buy one get one free. It just happened, right?
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It just happens right there. And then discounts that
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restaurants run are also happening just immediately and
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and they don't feel that cost with cash back.
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You're billing for that, that transaction 30 days, 45 days
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later. Restaurants don't manage cash
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well when you're asking for something.
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They're like, well, thanks for sending that person over 30 days
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ago. I've used that money 10 times
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over and that's where a big struggle.
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So what I was learning now he owns a restaurant.
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Yeah. Exactly.
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So that's the slush fund. Wikipedia again.
16:59
Other historical research centres are available.
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How, how do entities, partnerships, partnerships
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create mutual value then? So you talk about the
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restaurants, you talk about the banks, talk about the the diners
17:13
themselves. How does that create a
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relationship then with the diners and the restaurants, do
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you think? Yeah.
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So I mean, you know, again, the, the banks, first of all, the,
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the restaurant sector for banks is a very important sector.
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As you know, for the economy in general, the restaurant sector
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is very important. It's the most, it's the largest
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sector in terms of employees. I think they fell over 2 million
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employees in the restaurant sector.
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So it's important for that for the economy and as a whole to
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have that sector perform well, right.
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So that's one benefit then of course, like I said around the
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experiences, so driving those experiences to those customers.
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And then from, from the consumers perspective, I mean,
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it's, you know, with COVID, we saw how many missed moments we
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had, right? And everybody's all of a sudden
17:58
felt like, well, you know, how did we survive for a year and a
18:01
half without going out to restaurants and giving them the
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opportunity to go out again? It's phenomenal.
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And you see that in the numbers that we're generating for our
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publishing partners. Like the offers we're running
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are by far the most successful offers they've ever had run.
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So our thesis back in 2019, even though timing was horrible
18:18
because of the pandemic, proved out to be very true.
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Now, I mean, we've, we have a publishing partner where over
18:25
25% of their customers have signed up to the offer.
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And a huge number of those actually engage with the offer
18:32
itself, as in redeem it. You feel those people just sign
18:34
up to every offer available, but never redeem it.
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And we've got huge engagement, which no one's ever seen before.
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So it's clearly that everybody is, you know, from those three
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parties, the banks, the the, the restaurants and the, the
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consumers themselves are enjoying this.
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It's it's all driven through app.
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Is it or or is there any element of QR codes with any?
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Other no, we're trying. We, we try to keep it that
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discreet that it is all done. It's recognized.
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So the cards when they sign up currently with the cash back,
19:05
the cards are recognized through the merchant ID.
19:09
When we scan, the merchant IDs are scanned and then we can
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deliver the cash back. When we talk about dynamic
19:16
rewards, we're recognizing a card at the payment terminal.
19:20
So it's it's a much nicer journey.
19:23
It's a quicker journey where Omar said that it can take 45 or
19:29
60 days for reporting purposes. It's all kind of very instant
19:34
the and live reporting. So yeah, it's, yeah, it's, we
19:43
don't need that. We don't need any apps.
19:44
We don't need any QR codes. The idea I've always had in my
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head is if you're on a date, the last thing you want to do is
19:50
wave to a waiter, A waitress, that you've got QR code and a
19:53
coupon code for 10% off. You just want it to be seamless.
19:57
And so the way that we've built it from cash back all the way
19:59
through to our new product, Dynamic Rewards, it's all
20:02
seamless. And what what's if you were to
20:05
describe then? A campaign end to end from bank
20:07
app to diner sitting down for a meal.
20:11
How would that flow look like when you're going and
20:13
positioning this to an end customer of yours I guess?
20:16
So on the bank side, it's there's two ways of doing it.
20:20
Let's Click to activate and there's always on.
20:23
It's a contentious conversation, especially around attribution,
20:27
right? Because if you applied an offer
20:30
on to every Lloyd's customer, that's 20 million cards, whether
20:34
or not they know there's an offer, they're going to redeem
20:36
that offer and that could be detrimental.
20:38
That's that whole incremental versus incidental, right?
20:40
Do you actually know that the customer is coming in because of
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the offer? They just there by accident
20:45
redeemed an offer. So the typical journey that we
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prefer is Click to activate and what that is, is on the banking
20:52
app, you will add the offer to your card.
20:54
And only once you've added the offer to your card do we start
20:57
listening to that card at the merchant ID.
20:59
When that card shows up at the merchant ID, we know how much
21:02
they spent and whatever they were owed.
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We will then, like I said, bill for that, collect it, pass on
21:07
the cash back element to the issuer, but then push pushes
21:11
through a statement credit. In some cases, the issuer pushes
21:14
that statement credit on their own sort of risk and that they
21:18
haven't received the cash back yet, but they'll fund it in
21:21
advance and hope that we pay them.
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In other cases they wait and that could take up to 60 days
21:26
for the the cash back to be paid out.
21:28
So that's that's the end to end sort of user experience.
21:31
Cool. What's that secret then to to
21:34
finding them new customers? You mentioned before 8% of your
21:38
dying is a first time visitors. I mean that's a great start,
21:41
right? Incredible.
21:42
What is that recipe if you'd getting them for them first time
21:45
consumers to to make that first time visit?
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I think it's the the inventory that we've got.
21:50
I think that the, the quality of what we're providing via the
21:55
banks, we, we choose restaurants that are nice, nice to go to.
22:03
They're good experiences. They're they're good ratings on
22:07
Google and TripAdvisor and the rest of it.
22:09
We don't normally we don't go after the the fried chicken
22:14
places on your High Street. It's.
22:15
Wallet and important that when you say so you want.
22:18
To it's not, it's not Wallet's brand because we, we'd be quite
22:20
happy. We, we have coffee shops, we
22:23
have some mom and pop kind of shops, independent shops on that
22:27
restaurants on there. They just have to be nice
22:29
quality, good experiences. We want these guys to keep
22:34
coming back to, for example, Amex Dining to get their next
22:39
restaurant. So if we deliver good
22:40
restaurants, there's a bit of personalization in there as
22:43
well. So if you go to a state
22:44
restaurant, you'll see state restaurants.
22:45
If you're a vegan, you'll get shown the vegan restaurants.
22:50
That's kind of what for us. We see good uptake.
22:54
I for me, I've only normally used loyalty and it's not even
22:58
loyalty, it's offers. I think it's such a big
23:00
difference between loyalty because me as a consumer and the
23:03
way I spend compared to an offer at XYZ restaurant on the High
23:06
Street won't get, I know, a starter through my main meal
23:10
right where I'm rushing about a lunch with the kids and I don't
23:13
we'll just jump in here for an hour.
23:15
I don't want to be in here for any longer.
23:17
I just know that I've got a free pizza with with one pizza.
23:19
So the offer gets you in and the Lord keeps you sticky.
23:22
Yeah. The Payment Shed Podcast is
23:25
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23:29
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23:31
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23:44
Both Justin and I have used the tool in previous organizations
23:47
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23:49
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23:51
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23:56
But I'm also well aware that that is only serving a purpose
23:59
for what I'm doing is probably not.
24:00
So I'm going to take my wife on a date to it's someone that's
24:03
just very quick and easy for that.
24:04
And I think from what you guys are talking about, it's it's
24:07
definitely more kind of the upper end of wanting to go out
24:10
for nights meals and getting rewarded for doing that.
24:13
I think we've got a mix of everything, right?
24:15
We've got everything from your QSR lunch places, pokey places,
24:20
you know, those lunch bowls, 2-3 Michelin starred restaurants.
24:24
And I think look, London itself has about 15,000 restaurants.
24:29
I think across the UK is about 80 + 1000 restaurants.
24:31
Like it's impossible to go to every restaurant, right?
24:34
So you either a creature of habit and go to the same places
24:37
regularly, which most people are, or you sometimes are
24:41
incentivized to go try something new.
24:43
And I think we've got that many good places that people are
24:46
looking at it and being like, I've never been there before,
24:48
but I've walked past it looks quite nicer.
24:50
My friends have talked about it and actually I wouldn't mind
24:52
going there and getting a 10% cash back.
24:54
How much access then do you guys get to, to data that will help
24:57
you with that? I'm going to call out, you know,
25:00
slightly controversial. I know you guys work with Amex,
25:01
but I, I use my Monzo day-to-day and I use my Amex day-to-day.
25:05
They're two of my main spending cards where both of them have,
25:07
as Justin said, offer solutions, right, not necessarily loyalty.
25:11
And I particularly with Amex for me, and I'll have a look and
25:15
I'll normally go on once a month wherever, whenever they update
25:17
it, but I don't feel like they're using my customer data
25:20
necessary to personalize those locations.
25:23
Like I would expect to see certain different venues on that
25:25
list. If they know my spending, you
25:27
know, and you can spend thousands of pounds on your
25:28
credit card in a year, it does feel like they're maybe signing
25:32
certain parts. And Monzo's the same, by the
25:34
way, there's, you know, stuff on there.
25:35
I'm like, I'm never going to, That's not me, right?
25:36
You should, you should know my data.
25:38
I'm not, that's not an offer you should put in front of me or, or
25:40
you know, if you're going to build a loyalty app, look at
25:42
where I do my day-to-day spending.
25:44
How important is the data that you guys get in from the banks
25:48
to then help to work with them on those loyalty and acquisition
25:51
solutions? Yeah, I mean, it's a good
25:53
question. And it's in the end of the day,
25:56
the transaction data is very valuable.
25:59
And restaurants a bit tricky because historically, I mean,
26:02
recommendation models are built on, I mean not collaborative
26:06
filtering models, but like something along those likes,
26:08
which is, you know, people who spend here would likely spend
26:11
there. And because they see enough
26:12
transactions happening in these two different locations, they
26:17
find that association with restaurants because it's cheap,
26:20
it's not a very frequent spend, right?
26:22
And there's so many of them, it's hard to build those
26:25
associations. What we did, and this goes back
26:29
to the original app, which was that restaurant recommendation
26:32
app, we went and crawled all the data we could on on the
26:36
restaurants reviews, blogs, images, social media to help us
26:39
understand what makes that restaurant special.
26:41
And then when we see a transaction at that restaurant,
26:44
we know all the attributes of the restaurant.
26:46
We can find other restaurants that have similar attributes.
26:49
So where the two fit together is the transaction gives me
26:53
probability. The third party data gives me
26:57
similarity. Bringing the two together is
27:00
very important because Nobu and Zuma very similar, but
27:04
probability of you doing those regularly, unless I don't know,
27:07
something about your income is probably quite low.
27:11
So giving you that recommendation like I go to Nobu
27:14
today, like, oh, you've been to Nobu, I'm going to give you Zuma
27:15
tomorrow is probably a low probability.
27:19
Like what? It was over, right.
27:21
Well, there you go. Doesn't actually we we work with
27:24
everyone. So we can't say.
27:26
That, but they're all great. But if I gave you maybe 2
27:30
slightly less similar restaurants, but very much
27:34
within your wheelhouse of going to regularly, I'd be, I'd be
27:37
more likely to show you that, right?
27:39
And I always give the example of Five Guys, you know, what can
27:42
you tell from transaction data and Five Guys, you get the
27:44
merchant category code. So you know it's a restaurant.
27:47
You get the average transaction value, let's say 20 quid £30 but
27:51
what else do you know? Like 5 what guys is it French
27:54
guys, Italian guys? Is it Chinese guys?
27:56
I mean it's just five guys, right?
27:58
There's no way to know it's a burger place, but we've scraped
28:00
all the data to figure out that it is a burger place it's a
28:03
slightly upscale QSR burger place and we can find you a
28:06
Shake Shack and set or something like that.
28:07
So it's. Using ATVs to drive that
28:10
decisioning. No, no.
28:11
So it's like I said, it's all this third party data, the
28:12
reviews, the blogs, images. The volume of fries you get Five
28:15
Guys compared to everywhere else, right?
28:18
Exactly what the other and they're so unhealthy.
28:20
I mean, the amount of calories in this crazy, but you know,
28:22
I'll give you 1 very interesting example of Sushi Samba.
28:26
If you look at the similarity between Sushi Samba and the most
28:28
similar alternative restaurant is probably like duck and
28:31
waffle, which technically is nothing to do with the same
28:36
cuisine, but they've got the same view.
28:38
And the vast majority of people going to sushi, some are going
28:41
for the view as opposed to for the sushi.
28:43
It's good sushi. You know, it's, it's good.
28:44
But you're going more for the view in the ambulance, right.
28:47
So we can figure out, are you there reading more for the lot
28:49
of the live music? Are you there for the view?
28:51
Are you there for the food? Are you there for the, you know,
28:54
atmosphere and so on and so forth.
28:55
So yeah, it's quite powerful. And what's the results or
28:59
success stories that kind of stand out most for you?
29:03
Yes, again, you know we say we're data-driven and because of
29:05
the card data we have, we can be.
29:07
So we can run control groups, we can run AB tests, we can look at
29:10
year on year analysis of people who opted in versus people who
29:13
didn't opt in. So when we say that an offer has
29:16
driven incremental sales, we can say that with data to prove it.
29:21
And if you look at the numbers, I mean that we're driving, we
29:25
just got 11 premium restaurant group which we ran with British
29:29
Airways. We're looking at some numbers
29:31
across the board other than one month here, one month there,
29:34
we're having close to 100% uplift in sales year on year.
29:38
So that means last year when we looked at that same customer
29:40
base and how much they spent versus this year, we've doubled
29:43
their sales and we haven't doubled their sales as a total
29:46
because our proportion is still quite small as compared to their
29:48
whole thing. But that's powerful data to be
29:52
able to to make decisions on. So, yeah, to that's and we're
29:57
very proud of the fact that we can deliver that kind of
29:59
results. It's fascinating.
30:02
I found this stuff really interesting.
30:04
So leading into the big drum roll, Johnny's spoiled the the
30:08
large jam roll by alluding to this, but I know you guys are
30:11
very excited about this, this product.
30:12
So dynamic rewards your new product.
30:17
Let's unpack it. Tell tell me all about it and
30:19
how this will add to your current acquisition strategy.
30:23
Yeah, so it started with a a large QSR who had sent a very
30:30
large bill to and they complained.
30:34
They said, oh, it's too expensive.
30:35
I said, but I ran a control group and the results were 69%
30:38
growth in spend. I think it was something around
30:40
six, it was around 70%. They're like, hey, but it's
30:43
still so expensive. And like, you know, again, I'm
30:45
sorry, I drove so many customers your way and I'm like, but hold
30:48
on a SEC, your own taste card at 25%, which is more than what I
30:52
was charging in total, the cash back plus the Commission.
30:55
Like how do you justify and taste carbon?
30:57
Not me. So initially they waffled a bit
30:59
and then finally they said, well, they don't invoice me.
31:02
So that was a light bulb moment. I was like, OK, if that's how
31:05
simple it is and we solve, restaurants refuse to work with
31:08
us, but go on to the fork. You've probably seen the fork in
31:10
the summer. They've got this 50% deal.
31:12
They don't run with us on a 10% cash back, but go on for 50%.
31:15
So clearly discounts and cash back were seen differently.
31:19
So that got us thinking, well, how can we avoid the cash back
31:22
element we need to build direct integrations into payments and
31:27
into the pause to apply a discount at the point of sale.
31:30
So that was it really probably a year and a half ago sat down
31:34
Johnny obviously with his background and and you know,
31:37
head of IT at restaurants. We said, well, how do we make
31:39
this happen? And.
31:40
Yeah, it's been what, a year and a half in the making to get to
31:43
the point where we're now we're down in a pilot with Youcha.
31:49
And yeah, it's, it's, it's been, it's the next, it's the next
31:54
step in card linking offers. It's does exactly what Omar
32:00
said. We're not invoicing any more for
32:03
the cash back element. So that means that the budgets
32:05
that the restaurants have can be extended.
32:08
In fact, we don't, we don't even really touch the marketing spend
32:11
at all when we talk to restaurants, which is fantastic
32:14
for those marketing teams. The journey itself is much nicer
32:18
for a customer because they get their rewards instantly, within
32:23
minutes, hours, days, compared to what it can be at the moment
32:27
with the banks, which is 9 could be up to 90 days for, for the
32:30
cash back to come back into their accounts.
32:36
And for the merchants itself, for the restaurants, we're
32:38
giving them a lot more power to be able to do campaigns that are
32:42
not just always on kind of a 10%, 24-7.
32:47
Some restaurants come back to us and say, look, we're, we're fine
32:50
Fridays and Saturday nights. We're really busy Friday and
32:53
Saturday nights. We can't really be discounting
32:56
anything those days. And we've never been able to
32:58
say, OK, let's turn those days off because unfortunately the,
33:03
the banking technology just didn't give us that flexibility.
33:07
But where we are now is that we can, because we power it all.
33:10
We can now give restaurants the ability to turn off days to do
33:14
frequency visits, days of the week, times of the day.
33:18
If they wanted to do a lunchtime, offer another one for
33:20
the evening, then they have that power to do that.
33:23
Just with our payments ecosystem, how on where exactly
33:27
are you integrating there? You sat on an Android POS
33:30
device? Is it in the EPOS software?
33:31
Is it a mixture of the two like? It is both OK, so in an ideal
33:36
world we would just integrate into the payments because that'd
33:41
be much easier. As I said, there's so many Epos.
33:43
There's so many payments, right? Yeah, that would be so much
33:47
easier. But what the restaurants want to
33:48
do at the end of the day, and this is where my IT director at
33:52
restaurants is they want to reconcile their payments and
33:54
their, their, their cash UPS at the end of the night.
33:57
So you need to reconcile. And the only way to we can
33:59
reconcile is to integrate into the POS.
34:02
So yes, at the end of the day, you want to see that you've got
34:05
X amount of payments and you've, you know, POS has taken that
34:08
much and they reconcile. So it is that's, that's now our
34:13
job is, is just to integrate to as many as the of payments and
34:17
Epos. We're looking at kind of the top
34:19
8 Epos is out there and and payments to be able to have the
34:23
biggest spread in the UK. That funnel's getting a little
34:26
bit crowded as well because you've got new laws around
34:29
tipping, so you've got Tip jar and you rocked and people like
34:33
that. That obviously helping staff to
34:35
get better accessibility to tipping and the taxing that goes
34:38
with that and removing tax from the restaurant locations.
34:41
Have you got any challenges in terms of multi layered
34:43
applications that sit on pause as well?
34:45
Like you're you're competing with other solutions in in
34:47
restaurants. It's not.
34:48
I don't think it's so much as competing.
34:49
In fact, if anything, it helps us because there are now APIs
34:53
available that they've created for tipping that we can lean on
34:57
to be able to do what we need to do.
34:59
So there are different technologies out there that do
35:03
some really cool things when it comes to payments, where
35:06
payments can settle, payments can be split into different bank
35:12
accounts. So the tipping gets that, that,
35:15
that part of the transaction will go into the tipping bank
35:18
account and the payment company will get their their bit and we
35:22
theoretically get our bit. So that kind of takes all of
35:26
that risk if you like and and just pays us straight out.
35:31
So that's really nice. And again, if it wasn't for the
35:34
the tipping world, that probably wasn't created.
35:37
So we can lean on all of these nice new products to for us to.
35:42
Integrate and from a partnership side and how are you working
35:45
with the banks and the schemes to make it as frictionless as
35:48
possible? Yeah, I mean, that's an
35:50
interesting one because not only is it solved a lot of problems
35:53
on the restaurant side, you know, Johnny mentioned a few, I
35:56
mean even opens up skill level offers, but it's also solved a
36:00
lot of problems on the bank side.
36:02
So to run an offer and even non banks as well, I'll give you an
36:05
example on both. So to run an A card linked offer
36:09
cash back program with the bank today, I need to get a bank to
36:12
share transaction data with me. So they've got to build those
36:15
pipes. They've got to be comfortable
36:16
sharing transaction data with me.
36:17
It's non PII, so like that's OK, but still it's sensitive data.
36:22
They have to be able to reconcile which customer gets
36:24
what offer. They have to be able to collect
36:26
the money from me and then they have to be able to issue the
36:29
statement credits back to the customer.
36:31
So the lift to turn on a cash back card linked offer program
36:34
is quite high when it comes to dynamic rewards.
36:38
All I need is a token from the rest from the bank, the bank.
36:41
And there was a bank that came who was interested in our cash
36:43
back program, but said it was too much lift.
36:46
When we told them about dynamic rewards, they're like, So what
36:48
do we need? I was like, you just send me the
36:49
token. They're like how I said SFTP,
36:51
ideally an API, right? I knew they weren't going to be
36:55
into API. So I was like an API exactly.
36:58
I was like SFTP is fine. Then I can we send you an e-mail
37:01
with an Excel file. So and thought I'm like, yeah,
37:05
that's fine. So they're literally thinking of
37:07
sending me now an e-mail with an Excel file with the tokens that
37:10
we need, non PCI tokens. So they're non P, they're very
37:12
safe tokens. But doesn't mean anything to
37:15
anybody, right? Exactly, if it was stolen no one
37:17
would do anything with it and now I can listen to those tokens
37:21
at the payment gateway to hear if they show up and apply the
37:24
offer that needs to be applied. So now the lift from the bank
37:26
side is almost nothing right now.
37:29
Take non financial institutions. I can get that token from either
37:34
a online receiving payments companies who think Uber or
37:38
think we work, they receive payments from their customers
37:41
online via gateway. If they pass that token to me, I
37:45
can now apply offers to that card on to any of the
37:48
restaurants around we work. Or Uber can now offer customers
37:52
who are arriving somewhere restaurants around their
37:54
neighborhood. That's a great idea.
37:56
And even in store, I can get that token and a hotel can now
38:00
start offering their guests that check in and put in their
38:03
deposit offers for restaurants around without any lift
38:07
whatsoever from anybody. So I'm presuming you've had an
38:09
overwhelmingly positive early reaction to this from partners
38:12
and merchants? It's been phenomenal.
38:15
I mean we've been, I mean, not just here out in the States as
38:18
well. So we did a MasterCard Start
38:19
Path program. They love the product.
38:23
I mean, everybody's hugely and I mean it changes the game on so
38:29
many levels. So from a bank side, from a
38:31
restaurant side and from a consumer side as well, yeah, I
38:37
mean, I think the Sky's the limit and we're starting with
38:38
restaurants. But this all this can be applied
38:40
to regular retail as well, especially on the payment side
38:44
sector. Lots of other verticals that we
38:47
want to hit the hospitality industry and, and kind of our
38:52
our mantra or our mission is to make restaurants profitable.
38:58
So we've got to we've got to tick that box for sell that one,
39:02
tick that box first. But that's that's what we
39:05
believe our product is strong enough that that we really do
39:10
have the right data, the right product to get bums on seats and
39:16
fill those empty tables when they need it.
39:21
Yeah. So dynamic rewards we think is
39:24
is the product to go for. I think hospitality leads quite
39:26
nicely always into start ear and tickle ticketing and fan loyalty
39:30
across music, across sports, things like that.
39:32
That's kind of a nice Segway vertical for you.
39:35
It's very clear from the conversation today as what this
39:37
is an ecosystem play, right? Like there are multiple parts to
39:41
this ecosystem. So how does that evolve over the
39:44
next few years? Has it become slightly less
39:46
fragmented in terms of each of you relying on each other and it
39:49
you know the products like this, right?
39:51
Bring everything together, right remove some of that friction of
39:54
the multi party model that we're we're talking about right.
39:57
What will be the next evolution of this as far as you guys see
40:00
it, I. Mean obviously we've, you know,
40:03
moving away from relying on banks is important.
40:06
I think that's where you get more engagement, right?
40:08
Consumers are more engaged on a, on an Uber app or on a, you
40:14
know, Instagram or whatever it may be.
40:18
We've got dynamic loyalty which is coming out as well.
40:20
So dynamic loyalty is basically using your credit or debit card
40:24
to link your loyalty to your, sorry, link your card to the
40:29
loyalty program of the restaurant you're at.
40:32
Now this in combination with the publishers we have allow us to,
40:36
I think there's companies that have gone into the space, but
40:39
typically they request customers to enter their details at the
40:42
point of sale. In our case, we can extract
40:46
their details or contact details.
40:47
They're verified contact details from the publisher and pass them
40:50
through to the CRM. So it's a quicker check out,
40:52
it's a more valid check out. And then obviously the customers
40:55
can see and long term, I mean, this is another long
40:57
conversation for another podcast, but using the same
41:01
technology of bills. We, we really want to go into
41:03
dynamic pricing and hospitality. So hotel style dynamic pricing
41:08
where you're effectively adjusting menus based on supply
41:11
and demand, you know, two weeks in advance, three months in
41:14
advance, depending on time of day, day of week, the weather,
41:18
the you know, can you? Imagine a head chef right now
41:21
turning off this podcast. Listen to the thought of that A.
41:24
Cash and carry space where they do like price, they have dynamic
41:27
pricing on electronic, you know, think macro Costco sort of
41:31
thing, right? And they do like that sort of
41:33
stocks and shares type. Hey, we got a price crash on
41:35
Coca-Cola pallets, you know, and I think the dynamic pricing
41:39
market is very, very interesting.
41:40
Place Vegas does it right now, by the way.
41:42
So Vegas they typically you won't be able if you go on to
41:44
any restaurants website, you won't see prices because if
41:47
there's an event going on, they'll Jack up the prices.
41:49
If there's not, tell us. We're about.
41:51
To go out there, we'll be there today, so we'll keep you posted.
41:54
On that let me know how it. Goes.
41:55
So it sounds to me, you guys, although what you've built was
41:59
for the hospitality sector, it's a fintech, right?
42:02
Do you think the lines now are blurring between fintech and
42:04
hospitality? I think hospitality, I don't
42:11
know about fintech and hospitality, but I think data
42:13
and hospitality, I think historically hospitality has
42:15
been more analogue, been more sort of feeling.
42:19
I feel like we should do this. Our marketing director always
42:21
says, back in the day, you know, we'd, we'd spend £1,000,000 on
42:25
on a project just because we felt it would be good, right?
42:29
I think fintech has enabled that data-driven element to that
42:33
feeling, right. So yes, a lot of it is feeling
42:36
because hospitality is a, you know, is a feeling based sector,
42:40
but it has to be backed by data and that fintech element.
42:43
Bringing it together with hospitality has really helped
42:46
them make better decisions. I think the, the banks of the
42:50
world want to engage with their customers.
42:53
I think they, they want to be able to talk, they want to
42:57
offer, they want, they want that stickiness with, they want to be
43:00
top of wallet, right. That's, that's pretty much what
43:02
it is. And I think that that's, that's
43:05
where the lines are drawn. It's how can they get closer to
43:07
the restaurant. So restaurants are offering
43:09
great experiences at not the price of a holiday or a gig or
43:17
something like that. So it's, it's an easy way of, of
43:21
engaging. And I think that that is only
43:24
going to go, that's only going to accelerate on how can the
43:27
banks. I mean, you've got, we talked to
43:29
Visa, Visa got millions of customers, but they don't
43:33
actually talk to them directly. So we have got with our product,
43:37
we can now help them talk to the restaurants directly.
43:41
And so that that these are the conversations that we're having
43:44
is how can they get closer? Why do they all have opt in
43:47
models out of interest? So I I missed the boat on?
43:49
I did a large ish purchase last month and then realized a few
43:53
days later it was an opt in reward option for me this month
43:57
and it won't get back dated right.
43:59
I kind of didn't turn it on. I'm not going to get the draft.
44:01
Back to the point where the purchase you made wasn't was not
44:05
purchased because you thought that was going to be an offer.
44:09
Yeah. And and what we're looking at
44:10
doing potentially in that space is potentially putting a very
44:13
low offer on everything for everyone.
44:17
So every customer without opting in can get 1% cash back at our
44:21
restaurants, but then they get an e-mail to say if you want to
44:24
continue to earn at this restaurant and earn a lot more
44:26
than 1%, opt in now. And then the data that's being
44:30
used there, you're feeding back to the restaurants, are you and
44:32
saying, hey, if these 10,000 people thousand clicked opt in
44:37
after 1% the first time? Exactly.
44:39
Data is power. Personalizing the kind of next
44:41
phase of that journey for the consumer.
44:43
I mean, there's, there's, there's cards, I've got cards,
44:45
there's a platform Quidco, which I'm sure you guys have heard of
44:49
that very much is always on and it is incidental spend.
44:53
I, I, I shop somewhere and I don't even realize that my card
44:57
is connected to that retail, that retailer.
45:03
I'm happy because I get some kind of cash back.
45:06
But really is that a proper acquisition?
45:08
That's it's not the. Merchant's lost money, Really.
45:11
Because you're going to buy from them.
45:12
Anyway, Exactly, exactly. So what we don't want to do is,
45:17
is give cash back to somebody, give a reward to somebody that
45:20
was already going in there anyway.
45:21
We, we want, we want that acquisition, we want that data
45:24
to prove that required that customer.
45:26
Your view is from a from a bank's perspective, they'd love
45:30
that, right? So we always have to balance the
45:32
2 views, right? You need to give the bank what
45:35
they want to give their customer, which is always on as
45:37
strong an offer as possible. And the restaurants want to make
45:40
sure that only the right people get the offer.
45:42
We need to find that middle ground.
45:43
Now, we always lean to the restaurant sign.
45:45
So we always tell banks, we say, look, we're here for the for
45:48
the, for the benefit of the restaurant, not for you.
45:51
You are my client as well, but my first and foremost client is
45:54
the restaurant. So I need to make sure whatever
45:56
we do that the restaurant gets value out of the product that
45:59
we're giving them. And what excites you both then
46:02
just as a final sort of segue, what excites you both the most
46:05
about the next part of the journey for crowd from this
46:08
point, especially with dynamic coming out now?
46:10
That that's it for me. It's, it's the, it's the three
46:13
dynamic products of rewards, loyalty and then pricing.
46:18
I think dynamic pricing is the that's, that's a showpiece at
46:23
the end where I mean, Omar keeps on saying, actually you
46:27
shouldn't offer any discounts or offers at all.
46:30
You should just be pricing things correctly at the right,
46:32
right times. And I think people have tried it
46:36
in hospitality and not done a great job.
46:40
It's not something I think you can turn on at a particular
46:44
restaurant. You need the whole of kind of
46:46
the industry to say we want to take this on and it will be a
46:50
game changer for the whole industry to be able to do what
46:54
travel does and what concerts, the ticket masks to do or
46:56
something, something like that. So that really excites me to do
46:59
something that hasn't been done properly that we now have the
47:03
tools to be able to do it. Would you ship that all together
47:06
though? Because you cannot think humans
47:07
are wired to sometimes feel like they're getting something for
47:09
free or that you know that you've you've won this sort of
47:12
discount in in some way, shape or form by being a regular
47:15
customer. Do you lose that a bit with
47:16
dynamic pricing? Is it like the right fit for
47:18
dynamic pricing in the right sub vertical?
47:21
I think you can still get that. I mean you know with hotels or
47:24
just pure dynamic pricing, you still have loyalty and you
47:27
consider earn your points. There's always something you can
47:29
win, right surprise and delight. But you know the overall pricing
47:34
dynamics should be around pricing dynamic pricing as
47:37
opposed to discount LED. But yeah, on my side, I'm like,
47:42
I like to look ahead, but for me, just because of where we are
47:45
and that we've launched this current pilot with Oracle and
47:48
IDN and the pipeline we have of integrations that are coming
47:51
through in the next sort of 6 to 9 months, that's what I'm super
47:55
excited about. Sounds like your North Star is
47:56
actually getting closer and closer, right?
47:58
Oh, absolutely. Just ask one more question
48:00
because I'm a little bit obsessed with loyalty
48:03
gamification in all of this as well.
48:05
There's gamification becoming a thing that overlaps the the
48:08
loyalty space as well, again, because it's just that human,
48:11
you know, that that sort of, what's the word of that
48:14
adrenaline that you can seek, right?
48:16
Like the gamification element of that, is that something you're
48:18
being asked about as well? Good question.
48:20
We've built a whole gamification module which we're looking to
48:23
launch as well. So that takes into account
48:25
leaders, leaderboards, it takes into account social.
48:27
So getting people to sort of talk about what they're earning
48:32
cash back on takes into account challenges.
48:36
So you know, like the three burger challenge who can eat at
48:39
3 burger places this week or flow.
48:40
I mean, I could do that. Today, don't dare me something.
48:46
Like that exactly. So absolutely like gamification
48:49
and, and especially once we get into dynamic rewards because of
48:52
how easy it is for us to connect the customer profile to that
48:56
gamification without sort of PII and all that stuff means we can
49:00
deliver some really exciting tools.
49:02
So yeah, we're all over that. Fantastic.
49:04
And before we wrap up, I am Al and Johnny, as you both know,
49:08
and we've already talked about this, you're ick what would like
49:11
to bring to the shelf of shame for us to discuss and either
49:15
banish forever. We'll take it back with you.
49:18
Well, mine I would love to get rid of physical debit and credit
49:26
cards. I want to go total digital.
49:28
I want to be able to walk to an ATM and like in Spain and and
49:32
supposedly Metro Bank, you can use your phone to get money out.
49:36
I I don't carry cards and the times that I should have a card
49:39
or need to, I always forget it. So yes, digitalizing that
49:43
experience from they don't when you have a bank card, that's
49:48
what I'd like to be able to. Do very poignant with the
49:50
political conversations going on right now is that I no longer
49:53
want people. I don't have chance to show
49:54
people who I am by physical card right when I've got my whole
49:58
life on my on my phone. It's funny, I went to Samsung to
50:01
pick up a phone I ordered online and I showed them.
50:04
They said bring photo ID. So I showed them my my passport
50:07
picture on my phone. They know we need a physical ID.
50:10
I was like you're the reason I don't carry physical ID because
50:13
it's all on my phone. It's crazy.
50:15
They wouldn't give me the phone. It was crazy.
50:17
But but no, on my side, I'd say open banking.
50:22
I think, I think open banking, the concept is very good.
50:26
I think it's got a lot of exciting use cases.
50:29
I think the way it's been delivered has been very, very
50:31
poor. So I don't mean that we should
50:33
get rid of open bank. I think we should just turn off
50:36
everything that they've done today and start all over again.
50:39
It's an opportunity for you guys with open banking though,
50:42
because one of the big gaps with pay by bank and that part of the
50:44
open banking is the fact it hasn't been able to compete with
50:47
card in large spend items where it may be really is an
50:50
addressable product because it doesn't have the loyalty that
50:52
comes with your Amex, your corporate cards, your credit
50:55
cards, whatever it might be. We're payment agnostic,
50:57
obviously card is very important for us, but we could do Bitcoin,
51:00
we could do anything really. So yeah, pay by pay by bank
51:03
would work. And I think actually, you know,
51:05
with what Revolutes doing now and I think if maybe between
51:10
Revolut, Monzo, Starling, if they sort of get together and
51:13
agree to build a new network, which is pay by bank as opposed
51:16
to, you know, Visa, Mascot or I mean somewhat Amex, it could be
51:21
something. But I, like I said, the way it's
51:22
been built today. The delivery of the product to
51:24
the market makes it a lot better than what it could have been
51:27
after so much hype. Oh yeah, still continue type and
51:30
silly investment into businesses.
51:32
Yeah. For open banking, that still
51:33
hasn't really done the job that we thought was going to do six
51:35
years ago. Absolutely, yeah.
51:36
I think delivery of it could definitely go on the shelf.
51:38
If you Yeah, I'm not. Sure, I can bring myself to.
51:42
Just probably no I we always open now about open banking.
51:44
I'm I'm pro it one day then the next time I'm slating it.
51:47
The reason for it is exactly why you said it, because it's a
51:50
product that can do so much for so many different businesses and
51:53
so many different industries. However, the way that the
51:56
industry has brought it to market and the competition
52:00
that's been a part of it has actually meant we've probably
52:02
failed if we absolutely owned ourselves to make what we
52:06
thought was going to be really, really good into something not
52:09
really a positive experience to consumer.
52:11
And we've seen other regions take this pay by bank product
52:14
and, and kind of lay across their their region very, very
52:17
successfully, whether it's Brazil with Pixel, India, VPI,
52:20
the government said that we're going to do this, we're going to
52:22
regulate it. Here's a standard go and do it
52:24
and. It's very difficult to bring in
52:26
other things into open banking right now where like you said
52:30
loyalty, for example. We'd love to to be able to do
52:33
loyalty in open banking, just not there yet, but hopefully
52:37
that'll be something that we can fix as well.
52:39
I think you should be selling it to Pisps because what they're
52:42
doing is they're saying to companies go and build your own
52:44
loyalty program. Actually what they wanted to
52:46
drive forever adoption. They should have come with their
52:48
own in house loyalty program built alongside that payment
52:51
method that you could stick your logo on and call it what you
52:53
want and deliver it straight away because it's just another
52:56
project then for a retailer to have to think about the guys.
53:00
For another. Podcast.
53:00
Yeah, just finally then where can everyone find you guys?
53:05
Where can they get in touch with the team?
53:06
Yeah, So www.crowded.com or Popeye and Moorgate, we're in a
53:11
wework more place and I would love to talk to anybody.
53:15
When it comes to payments, we're always talking to the payment
53:17
gateway world, obviously E paws and banks and non banks.
53:23
So yeah, we're always open in restaurants, of course.
53:26
Thanks so much for having us.