Latest / VOOM Performance Podcast / The Fastest Human Ever Across the Alps: Sophie Grant on 28 Days, No Sleep, and Beating Both Records

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The Fastest Human Ever Across the Alps: Sophie Grant on 28 Days, No Sleep, and Beating Both Records · VOOM Performance Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: So via Alpina, why that?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: There are many other routes to choose.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why that FKT?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because it's the entire length of the Alps.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think a better question would be why not?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Actually.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Correct, yeah.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because the, you know, when my husband suggested it, the chance to run in through eight different countries.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Through mountains that I have never seen before.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: I it just, and it was, I guess also because it was big, right?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't want to go out and do an FKT that felt like a race or felt like, I don't know, for example, running the tour where you're like, okay, I know I can like stay awake for X number of days and push my body, et cetera, et cetera.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to explore doing something entirely different that I had never done before.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: And for me that needed to be big, day on day, week on week, of seeing if I could continue to move well in the mountains.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Four hours sleep a night, 40 degree heat, wild fires closing the trail in front of her.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And somewhere in the middle of that, the fastest human being, man or woman, to ever cross the Alps on foot.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: My guest today set off from Trieste on the 4th of July and reached Monaco 28 days, 17 hours later, having covered 2,000 kilometres and climbed the equivalent of Everest from sea level 12.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: She beat the previous women's record by Oprah Week and the man's too.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Sophie Grant, to the Voon Performance Podcast.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone meeting you today that doesn't know you, just tell me a little bit more about Sophie Grant.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're a coach, I know you're a mountain runner, and we talked earlier.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're an ex-hairdresser, but introduce yourself a little bit more.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right, so I guess I am a bit of uh I don't know, like I like to do a lot of different things, right?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I love running in the mountains, but we also, my husband and I like to get into them in any way possible.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we bike, we ski, we ice climb, we rock climb.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, predominantly we run, but any and all activities in the mountains are fair game.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was a hairdresser, born in New Zealand, moved to London when I was 20, didn't have any interest in running, kind of took that up, and then ended up doing ultras.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Very much enjoyed racing in the UK and building kind of like quite a cool network of people in the UK.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I also really loved to race overseas because I really liked racing fast women.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I would often go and and race in, you know, Trans Grand Canary or in La Vorado and et cetera, et cetera, just to try and find fields of women that were were fast.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because back when I started ultra running, there was even less women in the in the field.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I guess apart from that, I, you know, love my dog.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I like to ferment things.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like I, yeah, I kind of just I like I'm very curious about a lot of things, and I wish I had more time to do them.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that curious piece, and we'll go on to talk a little bit about your curiosity and what that means to you in terms of challenging yourself mentally and physically.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you didn't grow up as a runner, and having done a little bit of research, I think you got your parents to write you get out of PE physical exercise uh classes because you didn't want to do it.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Mainly cross country.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um I wasn't so bad at the PA.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: I used to play a lot of team sports.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was in high school, I did netball, volleyball, basketball, touch rugby.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of really enjoyed that team kind of aspect of it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: But the actual physical act of running, I hated.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was much to mine and everyone's surprise when I took it back up again and was not too shabby at it.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would say not too shabby is a huge understatement of the achievements that you've uh done.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: You've obviously done the spine uh and so many other multi-stage ultras.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: But what was the thing that changed from somebody that didn't want to do cross country to thinking I'm gonna get back into running or I'm gonna start running for a lot of people, and it we talked earlier a lot about women.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of women go, I'm not good enough, I can't do this.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: What was the thing that then changes you to go, yeah, I'm gonna do that and I'm gonna be really good at it?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look, honestly, it was it was to lose weight at the start.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: I bought a pair of trousers in a size that I thought I was.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: I got them home, I tried them on, and I definitely was no longer that size.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think for me, it very, very quickly blossomed into something else.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, it did help me lose some weight, but it very quickly became a space for me to be outside to be quiet.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like my job involved so much talking, and it was an opportunity to, you know, it like I started 15 minutes at a time.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I couldn't, I was shuffled, you know, like I was moving very slowly.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't run faster than that.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I still just loved just being outside, moving under my own stain in the quiet of London.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: I used to do it, you know, first thing in the morning.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I think like I I started, I actually ended up my first race I did was my friend and I had a bet that she was like, I'm gonna beat you, and I'm I'm quite competitive.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, you're not.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: I subsequently trained for it.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: She did not.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, just that that kind of started this like, oh, it's quite fun to go and race people.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it doesn't matter really, like, yeah, it's great to do things fast, but it also doesn't really matter like what happens.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's just fun to be in those environments doing that type of thing.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a point that I often talk about is you're far more capable than you think you are.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you go down that road, you think, wow, what what's the next thing?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and you talk there about your love of the great outdoors and the love of the mountains.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that that's your place to be present, to be able to be in a space that you love?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, the mountains are where I put everything.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: They they are where I go and put all of my emotions, right?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I'm grieving, I go into the mountains.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: They are where I probably have some of the most joy that I experience.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like they are, they are just a place to go and be.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they are they I guess in one in one sense they make you feel like the smallest thing in the world.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: But then in the other, they make you feel so mighty.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it is this kind of, yeah, they just they just are an incredible thing that we get to experience on this earth.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you talk a lot about consistency being the magic thing that's helped you to achieve, often within the coaching world or athletes, that's seen as the boring thing to do.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But consistency is queen, isn't it?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's the necessity to continue to do the things that you love day in, day out.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look, did I love running in London all the time, every morning?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, of course I didn't.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: You don't love every run.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Not every run is gonna be this beautiful run in the mountains that brings you joy or smashing out some fast session.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is just years on years of building that consistency in your week and getting out the door and doing it probably a lot, you know, some of the time when you don't want to.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the ones that really make you better.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like one session, one long run isn't going to make you a better runner, but building consistency week on week will.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know strength training has been a is a key part of that and staying strong as a woman as well.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, look, I think with the strength training, I certainly when I was younger was in this mindset that, well, if you weren't gonna lift heavy, what what were you doing bothering to lift?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: And actually that's not something that I champion now.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, of course, if you can lift heavy, that's great.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely do it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: But any lifting is better than no lifting.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we just need, yeah, I think it's I think it's important to try and build that into a a week.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I took Anna Troop's advice.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: She said, I think it was on a podcast, I cannot remember which one.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: She said, look, do it first, you know, because none of us want to do it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: We all want to just go out for another run or go and spend 30 minutes longer outside, you know?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really, when I heard that, I was like, gosh, that's such great advice because and that I just took that into my own training.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, right, today is, you know, let's say strength in a session or whatever it might be.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do my strength in the morning first.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course I'm always gonna want to do the thing in the like the session in the evening or the easy run in the evening because I love running.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: But getting that strength work out of the way is like a massive tick off for your day.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, brilliant.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a huge advocate on that strength side.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we know that women lose a lot of muscle mass, but let's talk about your most recent achievement and a huge congratulations followed you day in, day out.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's phenomenal.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So via Alpina, why that?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: There are many other routes to choose.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Why that FKT?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, because it's the entire length of the Alps.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think a better question would be why not, actually.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Correct, yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because the, you know, when my husband suggested it, the chance to run in through eight different countries, through mountains that I have never seen before.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: I it just and it was I guess also because it was big, right?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't want to go out and do an FKT that felt like a race or felt like, I don't know, for example, running the tour where you're like, okay, I know I can like stay awake for X number of days and push my body, et cetera, et cetera.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to explore doing something entirely different that I had never done before.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, that needed to be big day on day, week on week, of seeing if I could continue to move well in the mountains.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think that a lot of that links into your curiosity of how can I push my body, how can I push my mind again to achieve extraordinary things?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Look, I have raced every distance from 5K to sky races to like, you know, VKs to 330 kilometers to the winter spine.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have tried every single race distance.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I've stood on start lines where I'm going to not be that fast.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to do well.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and I like I kind of don't care.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like there to have the experience of like trying something new.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, maybe I'm okay at it, but maybe I'm not.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's okay as well.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because I, yeah, I mean, it is a little bit kind of like Jack of all trades, master of none, but I just love experiencing the new formats that trail running has to offer.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that, you know, there's really something in just standing on a start line and going, well, let's just go and see what happens.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't, you know, the really the end actually doesn't matter.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's just getting to that start that is the hardest thing.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think it's important for you to take on a challenge that you don't know whether or not you're going to complete it or not?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: You think that's part of the curiosity?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I think, which is this sounds like a ridiculous thing to say, but I know I can stand on the start of the Tour de Gion, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: A 330-kilometre mountain race.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it is not a question of if I will finish, it is just how fast.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And to get to that point in a racing career, like I love running fast and I love racing women, but to get to that point, there was just no, I don't know.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: It just, it wasn't exciting for me anymore.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like, how do I do it?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like, okay, well, kind of we have the formula, maybe we tweak it a little bit.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I still haven't got the sleep right on that race for sure.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: But like, there wasn't like, I don't know what's going to happen.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, yeah, it's really it was really important for me, particularly this year, to experience things where I did not know what was going to happen.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think you talked about you fell back in love with your body by doing this.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: You understood how capable you were having had things that had challenged you through that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like going through IVF, going through like all of that sort of fertility stuff, I you know, I was not in the I wasn't I wasn't in the best place with my body.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was annoyed at her.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was kind of frustrated that I wasn't able to to make this happen for me and George, you know, like there was a lot of blame going on in in my kind of thought process of like, well, I couldn't do this thing.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I had fallen out of love with my body and just seeing what it is capable of and my goodness, how she showed up for me.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that I had like I normally get myself into a bit of a state by the end of races, you know, but like I really do kind of push push myself quite hard.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so to see my body go, it's okay, we've got you.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: We've got you weak on week on week.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, in fact, actually, we've got you so much that we're gonna get stronger.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it was an incredible experience.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, probably to its detriment, because I think I'm going to have to do another.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: We can we can talk about what next, and I know you've got an event in the not too distant future, but planning for something like this, it's not something that you and George wake up and go, right, well, tomorrow we're gonna do X.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: How long in the planning did it take to put the route together, the team, the structure, everything that went with it?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like we did a bit of planning, we probably could have done a little bit more.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: So George suggested the idea about eight months before the start of it.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and we didn't really start planning until after like much like after the spine, really, because I needed to get that out of the way first.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we, yeah, we put so what the to break up the route, we put it into George put it into his AI, and that was super helpful, but also we didn't go through the route enough to see that there were quite a few roads that actually George couldn't get to with the van that were listed on a map.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we yeah, I think the the route planning we did a wee way out.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was just kind of accumulating kit and food and knowing like having enough of that sort of stuff.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: The thing we didn't, you know, I kind of suggested to Zoe that I was like, it'll be really cool to have someone document it.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Zoe's amazing, but she will say yes to everything, and I didn't want to be that person that she kind of said yes to, but she didn't really want to do something.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I just sort of floated the idea and she said to me afterwards, she's like, I was never really sure if you actually wanted me or if you were like, and so she probably told me, I think a month before we left that she was going to come and do the whole thing, which was amazing.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think you know, the planning, the planning of it was mainly just the route and the kit.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: The thing with doing something like this is that George is so capable of making things happen on the fly.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think after living in the van for seven years, like you just get really good at coping with different crises as they pop up in foreign countries, in foreign languages.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of just knew that I could put my life in his hands and he would keep me moving unless something went terribly wrong.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And talking about Zoe, I did reach out to her to understand what was Zoe's experience like.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And she told me it was a 3 a.m.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: get up every day.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: You were out the door within an hour, you had minimal complaining, sitting or faffing, and she said you'll hate her saying this on my behalf, but you made it look pretty easy.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And her photography is phenomenal, isn't it?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And anybody that hasn't seen your journey 100% go and look at Zoe's photography as well.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's there's very few people that I would have had on that trip, to be honest.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I'm really honest about it, because like to share a small space like that, Zoe has also lived in a campus, so she understands, but she's also just the nicest person I know.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like she's she's one of those people that makes me feel like I'm a pesha person just because I know her.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: But she's also so talented and she's so strong in the mountains, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I couldn't take someone out there with me that I was going to be worried about all the time on these incredibly technical descents.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it was, yeah, I I think there are very there is a very small pool of people that are able to do what Zoe was able to do out there.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I read one of your posts and you talked about one day, or I think it was one evening, that you were out with Zoe and the weather turned and the rain changed to be pretty scary.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think your concern wasn't necessarily more about you, is how do you ring Zoe's parents to say, I've lost her in the middle of Europe.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, I mean that that was genuinely terrifying.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the problem is that when you're working off so little sleep, you're not necessarily making the best decisions.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we passed a refuge, it hadn't started raining yet, but we could see that the storm clouds were gathering, and it was like, you know what, I think we're good.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think we can make it up to the top and then start at least getting our way down before this thunderstorm hits.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we got to the top, and it was one of those summits that's like not a not a summit where you're like continuing along the top for I don't know, a few kilometers, thunderstorms around us, lightning's cracking, there's hail, like we are running for our lives at that point.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And all I could think of is my god, everything we've got is conductive, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Her camera's conductive, our poles are conductive.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like she yelled at me one point, Sophie, stop standing in the water.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: The water was conductive, like the rocks are conductive, you know.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like, this is too, this is a little too close to comfort for me because like it's one thing taking your own life, but putting your own life at risk.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's quite another when you have a friend or someone else with you that you kind of are not responsible for, but who has come out with you for your thing, and you're suddenly their life is potentially at risk too.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that was an experience that you all sit back and kind of remember fondly in a in a in a funny way, and she'll say, I'm going with you unless you take me there again.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: But let's go back to the start.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the 4th of July, it's in Trieste.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the, I don't know, the the build-up of the last hour into that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're prepped, you're planned, you're ready to go.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of emotion, excitement is in the camp at that stage?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just like we were all really excited because we were yet to learn that we were going to be doing it on such little sleep.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we were all really excited.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it was, yeah, I think I think for me personally, I was just focusing on that first day.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just was refusing to let myself think about the fact that I had day two, day three, week two, week three, because I was just like, there is no point in thinking about those things because if you don't get through today, tomorrow doesn't happen.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: So just, you know, that I think the first day was 67, maybe 70 kilometers.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, you can run 70k, that's not a problem.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're all good.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think as well, like part of it is just even navigating out of the town.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the town's always the hardest part.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I think there was there was definitely a lot of excitement.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot speak for George and Zoe, but I was just ready to get started too, you know.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'd I'd have my parents with me, and you know, it I think they were very anxious about me doing this, and so I was kind of having to school them around how they spoke to me about it because it was like, no, I can't take your anxiety on.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: If you can you can have it, that's fine, but just do not try and give it to me.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I think, yeah, I think we were all just ready to get going.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really interesting, one about people around you, and I'm the same, and I haven't achieved the phenomenal uh results that you have, but again, have done many endurance events, and for me, I just can't have people around me that are anxious, that are thinking about what might happen or what might go wrong.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: The mentality has to be how am I going to achieve this?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what do I need to do to enable me to achieve that?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what are the people that's a really important piece, isn't it?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, who you surround yourself is with is so important.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And like I love my parents, but I know that they struggle with me doing this.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, and so I will say that to them.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I now try and really take ownership of that conversation because actually you can control the narrative around you and you can say, hey, I understand that this is anxiety inducing for you.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I also have, you know, nervous energy going on as well.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I need you to only say good things to me.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can't say good things, let's not talk about it.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you can't say, hey, oh my god, this is so exciting, we can't wait to see you out there.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if it's, you know, because they were even anxious about how George was going to cope.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's just like, look, we can say good things or we can just talk about other things instead.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and one friend said to me, uh, it was a saying that her mother gave her, if you only say good things, not bad, because again, it's again what you kind of be putting out.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the mental side of it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we touched a little bit on the conditions and we talked a lot about rain, but Europe and most of the, you know, the planet is very much on fire at the moment.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you had a few, didn't you?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You had a few heat waves, a few storms, detours.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: How did you see that the weather had changed and is changing on big events like this for people like yourself having to plan?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I mean, look, you know, I live in the mountains.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: You can see what is happening, and it is very, very sad.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, as the people who l enjoy being in these environments, for the summer now, you just have to prepare for heat.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: You just like even if you think that historically this race has not been hot, prepare for the heat.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because worst case scenario, you're cold and you put some more clothes on, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: But like it's it's just getting hotter.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think as well, I think that we will see races trying to make better, safer decisions for runners as well now, too, because there have certainly been a few races in the last few years that have not maybe made the best decisions for runners out there, and I think that we will see much more of that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that if you are in a race that has made a decision like that, that you need to be respectful of that because it's not just about you, it is about the volunteers.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it is about that last person out there on the course.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we've seen, I think, two Ironmans in Europe that have been cancelled because of the heat.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and decision making, you talked about your cognitive decision making being slightly limited.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the first question is how many hours of sleep did you get during the 28 days?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think three to four hours every day, if you were lucky.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the average.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: There were a few six and a half hour sleeps, which were absolutely magical.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then we got down to there were a few sort of two hours, and then the last night was 90 minutes.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And hallucinations, did you see any?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have any good ones?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, I like I normally I do on some races.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: I had some interesting stuff happen at the end of the spine, but not for this, because I didn't I wasn't trying to put myself into that place.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: I really was, you know, if I if it got so bad that I was weaving and trying to run with my eyes shut, then I would trail nap, or I would take, you know, 10 minutes in the van and I would try and just clear a bit of the adenazine.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I it just because the thing is, is that if I I think particularly after what happened at the end of the spine, I did not want to get into that state by myself as well, because I did run a decent chunk of it by myself.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like, yeah, I just was trying to be a little bit more responsible because I wasn't sure what it was going to look like, and I did not have the backup of being in a race.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And being able to be in a space where you are you are alone for a quite significant period of time, whilst that's quite meditative and your ability to be present.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there were times on the on the route that were hard that were challenging and probably made you think about the decisions that you also had to make for your own safety and others.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like I there was, you know, there was one descent.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was actually when I was coming down and saw the the record holder who came out to see me.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Jake, I was descending down that, and that was a just go very slow because if you go on this descent, bad, bad things are going to happen.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I was very tired and I got in there and George said to me, He's like, Yeah, Jake said that that descent was really sketchy.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we're talking like down climbing via Ferrata style descending.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was really surprised that they take hikers over that.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I could not imagine doing that with something like a 20 kg pack, which is what some people do this route with.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and for you, descending is something that you have worked on a lot over the last 10, 15 years.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I asked Damian Hall that question around descending.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's listening to this and I put my hand up, I'm a rubbish descender.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: What's your tips, advice to anybody thinking, try it?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: He said, let go of your mind because it's free speed.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: However, slow down before you can speed up, right?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: I used to be like, oh, just put music in and don't think about your feet.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, no, that is not necessarily the best advice to give because you need to start trusting your feet and building that connection between your feet and your brain when you are running downhill.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: So start on flatter stuff.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: You can do, you can practice your descending on the flat.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you are jumping over tree roots and doing fast feet drills and you are jumping between rocks, you know that the floor is lava style stuff.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be necessarily downhill when you start.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you do start, run reps of the same hill, but go slow.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just start building that foot brain connection.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: But as you become more confident and as you want to get to the point where you are not interfering with your feet, which is what ideally you want to do, then music can be really helpful.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Also, look way further in front of you than you think.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: You shouldn't be looking at your feet.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: You shouldn't, you shouldn't see them, right?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like you are looking ahead and trust that your feet and your brain know what you've seen and know where you're gonna sit.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: But it's about building that confidence because downhill running is not really about fitness as such, it is about technique.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's brilliant advice and definitely one that I'm gonna take out on some runs over the the coming days.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And let's talk about fueling six to six thousand calories a day.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's a lot of food to be able to get in.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: How did you break it down?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what did that daily from 3 a.m.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: ritual look like for those 28 days?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Look, I I am a big advocate for eating lots of food.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is one of the things that has kept me as strong and resilient through my decade in ultra running, like just making sure that my body has enough fuel.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it was super important for me out there to try and make sure that right from the beginning I didn't go into a huge deficit.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I would get up at 3 a.m., we would have like muesli or porridge for breakfast, and then I would uh they would set me off and predominantly I would be drinking high carb sports drinks.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: We had like a big five-litre container that George had a he had a paint mixer attached to a drill to mix.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was very exciting.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: So almost all of my drinks were high carb sports drink.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: If they weren't that, they were Fanta, Coke, Orangina, like more sugar.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was then having precision hydration gels, I was having some chews, and then I was trying to top up with as much real food as I possibly could.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I used that like sugar, those carbohydrates as my base.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was having, you know, trail mix, beef jerky, bean burritos, burgers, what else?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Fried rice, lots of pasta, yeah, fried rice, oh that was delicious.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Fried rice, you know, like gnocchi, like just as much kind of real food as I as I could every time I saw my crew.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I would like leave with like a ham sandwich or a cheese sandwich or salad wrap or like whatever it was, and I would just make sure that I walked for as long as I needed to to finish that food and before I would start running again.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it was, yeah, it was a lot of eating.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and the ice cream slushies.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something that you only discovered on that trip.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: So before I went out, I did a like a shed load of research from every I tried to like listen to all the podcasts that Tara Dower and Carol Sabe had done.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: I talked to Robbie Britton, I talked to John Cali, to Sabrina Vergie, and I just like pecked their brains of like what what can I do wrong in this and what can I do right?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And Robbie actually suggested there's this like wizard, this like it's like a USB like plug-in, like charged, like I guess like a neutral bullet, but it's not.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like slushies, and I was like, okay.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we got one of them, and then George was like, hey, let's what what how do you how do you feel about a magnum slushie?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like a super hot day, and I was like, Oh my goodness, yes.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like next time I showed up, there was a you know, a slushie that had been made with a magnum and some tart cherry juice and you know, a bit of ice, and it was delicious, absolutely delicious.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant, and but flavor fatigue, when you're doing a a a 50k, 100k, you know, event, you get flavor fatigue.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: But for days, how do you make sure that that wasn't something again that had a an impact on you?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Your mouth has probably got ulcers in, you're you're struggling to want to eat.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: How do you champion that?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I expected to get a bunch of ulcers.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: I went out prepared to get a bunch of ulcers and I did not get any ulcers.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: I practice having my fueling so hard that I don't like, I also make it non-negotiable.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if I'm out racing, let's say I'm out racing the UTMB and I'm gonna be, I don't know, what, 28, 30 hours, whatever it is, I will have the same thing for every hour for that.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's not a it's not a like, do I I think I think people very much get into this space of like, do I want to eat that thing?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, of course you don't want to eat that thing.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do I want to be drinking another like bottle of sugar?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, honestly, I'd quite like to sit down and have a pizza.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that's not what I'm there for.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that difference between what do I want and what can I have.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Gut training is something that I had a long conversation with people like Sabrina Pace Humphreys, I know is a kind of a good friend.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Gain for you, that's been training over probably a decade to get to the point of knowing what you can eat, how your gut can tolerate it, and how your brain is wired to go, I want a pizza, but I'd love this bottle of sugar because I love Phantom.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I kind of enjoy it.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, honestly, there's such good sports foods out there now.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: You can find stuff you actually like.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's not like back in the day where they were like, I don't know, eight products and like that was it.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I've always been really like, even back in the day when we're when it was like, no, you don't need to eat any food.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: You can just eat an almond and burn fat.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: I have always eaten carbohydrates.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: I have not eaten enough for sure when I've like raced back in the day.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I didn't realize quite the amount that I could have been trying to get in, but I was always trying to get carbohydrates in.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, like just training yourself to go, this is what I have to do to feel good and to race well and to recover well.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like fueling my training, getting that like higher carb fueling in, I recover so much faster than I used to.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I remember back in the day when I would try and I'd do my like, I don't know, 20-mile-long run around Richmond Park and I'd probably have three gels, right?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Three like high fives, so what, 20 grams of carbs, and then in the afternoon I would be knackered, lying on the couch, like just really, really tired.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when I feel well, I can go, okay, well, I'm great.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I can do all my stuff.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: I have brain power to actually continue to be a human being in the afternoon.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just, I think it's those things that make a huge difference to your week and to your ability to consistently train week on week on week.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: And carbohydrates are so vitally important.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that many people, and I would say a lot of women, will reduce their carbohydrates because back to your initial story, I'm trying to lose weight, carbs are evil.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And in our first episode, we talked to Renee McGregor about the utter importance of carbohydrates.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a superfuel, isn't it?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that makes you go longer, it makes you recover faster, and it enables you to do things easier by consuming more food.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: I there's this real kind of narrative around sugar, right?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sugar's evil, sugar's bad, we should never have it.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: We are not normal people who are doing ultra running.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and and sugar isn't bad.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Sugar isn't evil.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's like nothing is bad or evil, like no one food group should be avoided.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's, you know, like yeah, I so I I think that this kind of I I know that I myself and a lot of my female athletes struggle with that, like, I guess what is what is the general public advice?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then what is the ultra-running advice?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: And like you just gotta try it and you gosh, you will feel so much better.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and and and there is there's so much evidence out there, and you've cemented that by it's a really important thing to do.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's fueling, but foot care is again something that you talk a lot about.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: My confession, when I did my first 50k, I didn't look after my feet because I was more interested in training for a swimming event than a 50k running event, and I lost nine toenails through that process.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: But how do you look after your feet and how did you look after them on the event that you've just done?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I was really careful not to run too fast downhill, okay, which I think is normally my downfall is that I love running fast downhill, and so that kind of beats the feet up quite a lot.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, I was very careful to make sure that I wasn't doing anything particularly fast.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was also making sure that every time I got a stone in my shoe, I stopped to take it.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: It was so boring, honestly.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: I like, I was like, oh, because you know, normally when you're running or you're racing, you're like a little a little stone, maybe you like wiggle it in between your big toe for a little while into that little gap, and you eventually you're like, okay now, I need to get it out.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, no, there's a stone, there's a twig, I have to stop, undo my shoelaces, take this out.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was re-lubing my feet a lot.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was using a lanolin-based lube to do that so that it was, it didn't matter whether it was kind of hot or I got wet or like I poured, you know, if I was pouring water over myself, if water went into my feet, I was changing my socks a lot.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: And just really checking on my feet every opportunity I had to to make sure that they were okay.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, I've lost nine toenails in a race before, too.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I they were so sore that I actually went backwards downhill because it's just like I cannot face going frontwards.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess I've learnt a lot of lessons over the years as far as like looking after the feet.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: But this is the best they have ever been.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Towards the end, when we started to push on the pads of my feet, small holes opened up.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Never had that before.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: That I I actually said to George, and I shouldn't have said it, before that happened, I was like, am I gonna get through this without anything like super weird and new happening?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because normally I like all the weird stuff seems to happen in a race to me, like lose my eyesight, broke a broke a finger once, like all sorts of stuff.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: But then this happened, and I was like, okay, no, this is new.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is not good.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and advice for somebody that is getting into ultrarunning, managing, or and more importantly, preventing blisters.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about socks, you talked about putting some lotion or whatever in.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm new to ultra running, what do I need to do to protect and manage my feet?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody's feet are different, and how you approach it can be very different.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Try stuff out.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Try out different types of socks, try out different like lobes or ta, you know, some people like to pre-tape.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's kind of just, yeah, I I think a lot of it is through trial and error.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: You can kind of like look at your feet and go, okay, well, they're this shape, and maybe that might be my problem.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I would also say when you go to try shoes on, don't automatically assume that you are the same size as the shoes that you wear normally.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Just don't, like, I think people get quite hung up on being a certain shoe size.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: And like, just don't.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Just go in and try on the shoes at whatever size you need until you find the ones that are comfortable.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they should be comfortable in the shop.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do not think these will stretch.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that bit doesn't feel kind of right.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they should be comfortable as soon as you put them on.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And people, you had other people than Zoe and George come.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you talked a lot about Ruth Crofton and Katie Morgan, the Kiwi crew that said you are full Kiwi, not Kiwi British.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: How good was that to have the Kiwi crew and others turn up to support you over the the 28 days?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: It was just everything I needed when they showed up.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was week three that my friends sort of I I was in the area that my friends were in.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: And my first friend that showed up, Jana, like I was in a terrible mood.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was also a bit like, oh my god, I don't know how I don't know how I'm gonna be around people, right?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've been going for a really long time.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm super tired.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but like your friends don't care how you show up.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're like, they're for you if you're shitty, they're there for you if you whatever.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: And she just brought the sparkle, right?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and it and it just started that snowball effect of just being so excited to see other people.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And because I just wanted to know that like regular lives were going on.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to know what people were eating for dinner.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what have you been up to that's like the boring stuff?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've just been out here in the mountains for two weeks now.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I just like, yeah, what have you been doing?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they had some funny stories for you.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and you talked at the beginning about music and how music is an enjoyable thing to have with you.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw the Ali Bailey and we had Ali on an earlier um episode, and she sung you a song every day.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: How cool was that?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Was that good to have?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was amazing.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was for the last, I think, five or six days of the of the FKT.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: And she's just great.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was just it just really cheered me up to have to know that at some point this was little song was gonna pop into my inbox.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it was amazing, you know, like just that support that I was getting from the, you know, just everyone who knew me.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was incredible.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: I had another I have an athlete who I coach who's a poet.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: And she was reading me poems, you know, and like honestly, they made me cry most of the time.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: They were so beautiful, and it was just like those little acts of kindness that people were kind of showing to me just really made it so much easier when things were hard.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Any music song that has stuck with you that you can't get rid of or don't want to get rid of?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was listening to terrible music.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I really went back to my like teenage music years and was like, you know, there were some Backstreet Boys, there was lots of like Brittany and Beyonce and Spice Girls.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: I went through a couple of times I did the sound of music soundtrack.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Girls were alive.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it was really good for keeping me awake.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was something that my grandparents always used to put on for us when we were sick, and we would go to their house and they would put on the sound of music, and so it's like a core memory for me, and so I know the words to like all of the songs.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I just, yeah, I think that having because normally when I race, I have music that I can run faster to, and that I can run faster downhill to, and I didn't need that for this.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: What I needed was just songs I could sing to.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: And channel your inner Julie Andrews as you switch down the hills and belting it out at the top of my voice to a like encampment of tents that I didn't see.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: The record itself, so Via Alpina had a record and it was a men's record and a women's record of which you broke both, and that's phenomenal.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at that as an achievement, did you anticipate being that capable?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Was that your stretch goal to be able to do it in the time that you did?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted, I didn't want to run for more than 30 days, ideally.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like that's that's a long enough time to step out of your life for.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that was always my plan.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think it's important, like it's really, really cool that I broke both records.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: But my plan was to just go out and see what I could do on that route.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't that I was like, oh yeah, I really want to beat the men's record by X number of days.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like looking at this, looking at the, you know, elevation, the distance, this is what I think I can do.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in hindsight, if we'd known how technical it was, I probably would have tried, I probably would have gone to God.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, I need more time than that.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: I did not intend on running on such little sleep.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: To break, to get even under my kind of goal was amazing.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: It probably did take a bit of the enjoyment out of the last few days because I was running on such little sleep and I kind of, yeah, and it was hard.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Those last few days were really, really hard.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: But it was more about me against the course, not about me against Jake's record.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I just and I I'm also just a a little aware of this narrative around, you know, women having to break men's records.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm getting the question a lot of, you know, why do you think women are so good at endurance sports?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: And like, actually, no, women are just good at sport.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: Full stop.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's it, right?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: We are really good at sport.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I I don't want to take away from the fact that it was amazing to break both records, but also we shouldn't necessarily have to be petted against what the men are doing.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and we talked earlier about the underrepresentation of women on many, if not most, levels.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: How important was it for you with this to be able to show any woman, any girl that things and hard things are doable and you are capable as a role model?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really important thing for you to talk about, isn't it?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's really, it's a really important because I think a lot of women don't have a support system that believe in them the way that mine does.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I just have been so lucky throughout my life to have people who are like, yeah, of course you can do it.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like even when I think that I can't, they're like, what are you talking about?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Of course you can.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I think that a lot of women don't have that.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can give women belief and and a bit of courage, man, we can do some cool things.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just I hope that when people see what we did out there, that they can go, well, you know what, maybe I can go down to the parkrun.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe like, because like being brave about these things doesn't have to be some big thing.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: It could just be going, oh, I'm a bit nervous about going to a parkrun.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe if if this inspired someone to go, hey, so if you did that, I can go and do this.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: That is gold, absolute gold.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look at the women in endurance events, whether or not it's Jasmine Paris in the past before people like Chrissy Wellington, you've had women that have gone and swam the English Channel, you know, four times.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: We are far more capable than we think we are, and it's about self.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: You went on a journey via Alpina for self, right?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: And not to be able to kind of break back records.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: That intrinsic belief that you can do something and you want to do something is hugely powerful in every aspect of your life in confidence, isn't it?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: 100%, you know, like just going and all I I think as well, it's also going and starting something that you might fail at.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's okay.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because the people that love you, they don't care.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: They just want you to be happy and they want you to feel fulfilled, and they want you to try things that you wanna, they want you to find joy in your life.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like they don't care if you get to the finish.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's that.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's just it's just having the confidence to try the hard thing or try the scary thing.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what next is, and this will come out when you are in the midst of it, is UTMB, PTL.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've just finished 28 days across many European countries.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Why not go and do something that you've uh wanted to do for, I think, 12 years, isn't it?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: That you think, right, nothing like a good recovery.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: I know, look, it's and as a coach and as an athlete, it's a terrible thing.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so no one ever do this.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a good idea.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like my endocrine system is going to be shot after this and I'm going to have to take a good amount of time just letting my body recover.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: But this race is one that my husband and I have always wanted to do together.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: He is an adaptive athlete and like, you know, 10 years ago we didn't think he was ever going to be able to run.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: So the fact that he is able to stand on that start line is just a huge achievement and a huge kind of like yeah I guess a like his willpower to continue to move his body even when he's in so much pain he might not be able to walk.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know like it is it's a massive thing for him to stand on the start line.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really just want to go and have that adventure with him.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when you talk about him being an adaptive athlete for those that don't know George and his journey just tell me a little bit more about him and the athlete that he is.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: So George was born with a club foot.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: So when he was little he had a lot of surgery on that foot and it is you know a substantially is just is substantially smaller.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: The ankle is almost fused he has no calf on that leg.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: There is a lot of scar tissue and you know over the years he's like I mean there's been many many days where he has not been able to weight bear on that foot.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: So this is why it's so like he's just such an amazing man and husband to have supported my running in the way that he has when it's something that he has always wanted to be able to do himself but he has just gone you know what I can't do it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to show up for my wife and you know crew her like it's my job.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think like he has just worked really hard at you know consistently training on his foot consistently kind of moving his body in any way that he can whether that's biking, climbing, you know, all of these other sports that we do.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think probably about two years ago we went to the States and he got a carbon it's kind of like we call it a device but basically it just like fits over his leg and his foot.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that takes it's amazing.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: It is an amazing piece of technology but that it basically takes the weight off that foot.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: So he can put that on and then run pain free but it is like once that goes on we will be moving much slower because I think it's at least a kg and a half on his leg and it means that even in like any step that he comes to he has to kind of like rock over it's it's not ideal but it's incredible to have so I think hopefully he can get a decent chunk of it done without having to put it on and then put it on in maybe the second half.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for sharing that that's a phenomenal achievement and I look forward to following that um the when you do it.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: But kit I saw you weighing out everything obviously the lighter the better what have you taken what have you left through that weighing process.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah so I like with the kit it's really important to have everything you need and the best possible kit you can get but also keep it light.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you need to be really aware that you are heading off into the mountains by yourself for a very long time.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: So the things that I am taking like the waterproof jacket that I wore for the spine that was great.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know obviously the waterproof pants you know we're not taking I went because the thing is is that we want to take as much food as possible.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we're kind of like the lighter you can keep your kit the better.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Things like you can take a sleeping bag or you can take a sleeping liner we're taking the sleeping liner.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: What other things have we kind of made a well more drink powders than like harder food harder foods because they are lighter things like that like just that constant kind of trade off of you know good warm kit and also as much food as possible.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: How long do you anticipate being out on that event?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly have no idea.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: So like we I don't know it could be you know I think we I think it will be definitely like a hundred hours plus and I think we've got until Sunday 4 pm to finish.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Both of us would really love to finish before the UTMB starts but that's who knows like we just have no idea how it's going to go.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked um earlier about that sort of the place that you love being out in the mountains and the adventure that it have but you also talked earlier about the journey that you've both been on from an IVF point of view.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of conversations around endurance athletes and women not being able to conceive just talk through that journey because I'm sure it was heart wrenching for for both of you to be able to go and and any woman that's listening to this now that takes confidence from the journey that you've been on.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah look you know it was I've never felt grief like I felt after having to like decide that that that was it.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know and it was really hard for us because we were trying to get pregnant it wasn't happening and I was like you know someone gave me really good advice at the start and they said don't put your life on hold whilst you were trying to get pregnant.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: So don't because she had tried for 10 years, right?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: She's like if you if if it's not working and you're putting your life on hold you're also not doing the things that bring you joy.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was trying to find this balance of like racing and like trying to get pregnant and like it just it was it was a horrible place to be.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I finally kind of ended up getting starting to get all the tests done to see you know what was going on with both of us.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: But it was COVID so it was very difficult to do all of these things.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Everything was happening over the phone you know it was like and I'm not very good with medical stuff.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like give me give me 28 days in the mountains with wounds in my feet but you get put me into a hospital and I'm just like oh no I don't like this.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: I feel very out of control.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it just everything just took longer than you know and so it just means that everything was kind of extended and then going through the IBF and that not working and then the the doctor was actually very very kind to me and said you could try this again but you're unlikely to have a different result and I think that was very kind of her because she could have said you know let's try again let's go through this again and and you know maybe it will will work but actually I think the kind thing was to be you know this this isn't going to be the way that you will have a child.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think if I could give women who are kind of thinking about like who are any woman really who are thinking about they want to have kids or any of that sort of stuff like I just wish I'd been tested earlier.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: I just wish that I had gone in and gone I want to know exactly what is happening in my body because actually I spent years grieving every period when it had nothing to do with any of the stuff that I was doing.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had to have my fallopian tubes removed.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: So like the highway was down basically and I could have I could have mitigated all of that grief and started the IVF like stuff earlier if I had just gone and got tested first.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's you know it's just that advocating for yourself and being proactive in this area.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like certainly if you are a bit older and you're trying to get pregnant like it just doesn't hurt to get the tests done.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the piece that recommendation that you got is in essence a really good way to give you hope but clarity in the sense that you could but the reality of that happening is minimal and I'm sure it's a journey that that you've you've both been on.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look at women now in terms of pregnancy policies it's better but it's not good enough is it yet how do we improve that?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like what in 2026?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah like this is what blows my mind is that it's 2026 and we are still having to ask for these things.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like how ridiculous is that and frustrating and maddening is it that we are still asking to be considered in the rules.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: I did a Swiss schemo race where you could defer andor get a refund if you had a business meeting but not if you were pregnant.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: Can you imagine?
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes unfortunately yes that it's just like it's just wild to me that that we're still having to have these conversations.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah races you just gotta do it.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to be banned you've got to consider the fact that there are women out there who are going through this stuff you know like I think as well it's not just the women it's the men.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: The men need to be included in that conversation too because it's important that they have rights alongside the ones that we have for pregnancy and miscarriage and adoption and IVF and all of the ways that one might try to have a family.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and then we could talk for hours on that one and and to bring this podcast to a close we've had some great questions and just going to go on to these as some quick fire questions.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: So question number one which day would you least like to repeat on the Alpina?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's two can I pick two there was one where it felt like it was like joining the mountains and I basically was on tarmac through farmland in like 40 degree heat all day and that was horrendous.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then towards the end oh no then there were the horseflies but towards the end there was a mountain that Zoe and I climbed and we named it shit mountain.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: And like it it actually probably was amazing right but we were doing it at night it was really hard to find the trail we were both so tired and we were getting completely bombarded with bugs because of our head torches.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: They were in our mouths our eyes our ears just thousands of bugs attacking us so I would like to not have to do that again.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have any unspect un unexpected wildlife encounters?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: George saw a lynx.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay brilliant yeah yeah I did not get to see the lynx sadly but also I think probably the unexpected ones were the salamanders there were just hundreds and hundreds of these little like black lizardy salamander guys when it rained coming through I think it was Austria and they were just all over the trail like you had to be so careful where you put your feet because they were just like on the rocks they were everywhere.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that was quite unusual.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: And what was harder physical or mentally taking on beer alpina?
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Mentally if you could take one luxury item with you what would you take next time George?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: You had it next time as well right yeah oceans or mountains?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Mountains coffee or a hug?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: Coffee what was harder to master hairdressing scissors or running shoes?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hairdressing best nutrition advice you've ever been given eat a shit ton of food.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Worst nutrition advice you've ever been given don't eat like fuel fuel your runs off fat and a diamond the one piece of kit that you make sure that you take on an FKT and you can't say George good waterproof jacket.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay and the last one and we talked a little bit about music the most played song on via Alpina and you can't say sound and music?
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Probably Backstreet's back.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay I look forward to the musical rendition of that when you're doing UTMB next and look Sophie it's been an utter pleasure.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your time your passion your energy and everything that you do and if anybody which I'm sure everybody will want to follow you on your adventures they just follow you on Instagram so SophieAmy Grant the best place to go.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's the one.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: And any person that's either getting into or as an established runner that wants coaching, go to centurioncoaching.co dot uk to be able to get you.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah exactly and other things we didn't talk about but off course the film that's then something that documents that's something that people can go and watch as well.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah if if you're interested in seeing what that journey looked like for Stephanie Case and I, that is what you get with off course is is the whole thing.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and and we'll include all the links in the the show notes and just to finish if there's anybody listening to this that you could offer a small nugget of advice what would that single piece of advice be to anybody that's thinking or already on their ultra training journey?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just believe in yourself.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: 100% believe in yourself like have your own back.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah brilliant and thank you Sophie best of luck with uh UTMB I look forward to following you and George and it's been an utter pleasure and good luck and thank you very much.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: No thanks for having me Val