Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 89: Betrayal Violence: Destructive Patterns That Can Continue After Infidelity

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89: Betrayal Violence: Destructive Patterns That Can Continue After Infidelity · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Everybody, it's good to spend time with you again.
• 0:02
  We're still on it. We got this phase two series
• 0:05
  focus on development, integration and relational
• 0:08
  repair. So what?
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  We're on episode 7 of 12. So anyway, looking forward to
• 0:14
  spending some time with you today.
• 0:16
  So just to remember our previous episode, we focused mostly on
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  like internal work, like emotional maturity, parts
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  attachment, the addictive system, embodied healing and
• 0:26
  self trust. So this episode we're going to
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  shift more from the focus being on how our internal struggles
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  show up in relational harm, especially after betrayal.
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  OK, so we keep hurting our partners even after we've had
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  the betrayal, even after betrayal shows up and there's
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  some type of disclosure or discovery.
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  And this is one of the harder conversations y'all in this
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  series because some of the language we use can bring up
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  some shame and defensiveness and some pain.
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  So just notice that today there could be a decent amount.
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  So just notice what reactions are coming up for you as we
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  discussed this topic because it's going to be a hard one.
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  Let's talk about this. A man says that he wants to
• 1:06
  repair his relationship. So he apologizes.
• 1:09
  He's trying to do the recovery work and he's making an effort.
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  But during a conversation with his partner, she's still feeling
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  hurt and scared. And he responds by saying
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  something like maybe it's a really pretty kind of bad moment
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  because he's I already said I'm sorry.
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  I don't can I say sorry enough? I don't know what else you want
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  me to do. So what we're going to do is
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  we're going to talk about that today.
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  We're going to talk about these experiences where a guy ends up
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  being will use the word abusive. I said I already saw him.
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  I already said I'm sorry and I don't know what else you want me
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  to do about it. We're going to talk about this
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  concept of what's actually going on right there.
• 1:48
  Welcome to Beyond the Facade podcast.
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  I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and I'm thrilled to have you join me
• 1:53
  in this space today. What we're going to be doing is
• 1:55
  diving deep into the trials and triumphs and truths of seeking
• 1:59
  authenticity. Becoming your true self isn't
• 2:01
  about a single action or a moment.
• 2:04
  It's a relentless pursuit, a commitment to self that reveals
• 2:07
  the rich connection and meaning that our life has to offer.
• 2:10
  So whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a
• 2:12
  regular listener, know this. What you're building here goes
• 2:16
  beyond a conversation. You're here to challenge, to
• 2:18
  change, and to celebrate the incredible journey of becoming
• 2:22
  your authentic self. Because when you dare to show up
• 2:24
  fully, the rewards are immeasurable.
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  So welcome to Beyond the Facade. Let's get started.
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  Many men in recovery focus on the original betrayal, OK, the
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  original behavior and don't really recognize or they
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  struggle to recognize the patterns that are continuing to
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  harm that relationship today, right?
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  Not in the past, but actually what's the harm that's being
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  happening today? So I wanted to introduce this
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  concept. If you've never heard of it,
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  it's called betrayal violence, a term developed when taught by
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  Hope Ray. OK, first name, Hope last name
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  Ray, Love her name. And I just want to acknowledge
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  that her work and the way she teaches, it's helped a lot of
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  therapists. It's really, I think, made this
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  work move forward. In fact, I've done some podcasts
• 3:08
  with her in the past. So if you want to learn more
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  about it, if you want to hear her, go back to some previous
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  podcasts. I've had her in it as a guest,
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  but her stuff, man, there's some people that really struggle with
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  it. Some men specifically that I've
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  worked with but don't like it. We're going to dig into some of
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  this language. What is betrayal violence?
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  What does it mean? Betrayal of violence is a term
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  that's used by Hope Ray to describe behaviors that continue
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  to harm your partner emotionally, psychologically,
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  after betrayal has actually occurred.
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  So these behaviors are often, they're not physical and they're
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  not really overtly aggressive, all right?
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  So they usually show up through like communication patterns,
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  through how you react emotionally, through those
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  defensive responses. Like I said earlier, I'm sorry,
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  I don't know what else you want me to do.
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  Like I'm trying the best that I can.
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  The key idea here is that your partner is already wounded from
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  the betrayal, and certain responses can deepen that wound
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  rather than help it heal. So a lot of men engage in
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  betrayal violence without even realizing that they are.
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  In fact, I've noticed that their response to some of the Pope
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  raise work and even the word abuse or betrayal of violence.
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  It really shows a lot of where they are at in their journey and
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  where they how where they are reacting from.
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  I know for me, I'll just call myself out.
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  It was hard stuff because I wanted all the hurt that I was
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  causing to be in the past. I wanted to be like, no, I'm not
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  hurting her anymore because I'm maybe not lying like I used to.
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  No, there's no secrets. I want to take credit for the
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  things I was doing right. But when I react from shame and
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  when I react from fear or confusion instead of intentional
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  harm, that's where the really the problems are.
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  So I need to be able to have clarity around those.
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  But we need to understand why these patterns actually develop.
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  So many of these reactions come from old survival strategies
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  learned earlier in life. So if someone grew up in an
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  environment where mistakes led to like criticism or you maybe
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  in childhood, you made a mistake and they were criticized a lot.
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  Maybe you're even punished for the mistake.
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  Like, well, punishment. And let's not even talk about
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  like discipline. Let's talk about punishment or
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  emotional distance. I think of like you don't go to
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  your room, think about what you did just ignoring a child when
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  they made a mistake. That child might have learned to
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  defend themselves really quickly or be a fear of that
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  disconnection from making mistakes.
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  So they develop patterns on how to close the distance if
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  mistakes were made, maybe through hiding or from conflict
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  itself. So if emotional conflict was
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  overwhelming growing up, like if I'm just like, I don't know how
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  to deal with this conflict, you're going to have learned how
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  to withdraw or to shut down or other ways.
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  So if honesty with your caregivers growing up led to
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  consequences or rejection, you might have learned to minimize
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  or to hide things, OK, Or not even might have.
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  You would have learned how to minimize or hide things.
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  And those strategies help someone helped you be able to
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  survive emotionally at an earlier points in your life.
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  OK, so that's not the reason or that's not to go, especially if
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  you're the betrayed partner going.
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  OK, Luke, why you telling him this now?
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  He's just going to feel better about what he's doing and how
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  he's hurting me, that there's a reason why no, we're not going
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  to weaponize this. So the problem is that those
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  same strategies can become destructive in adult
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  relationships. So maybe if you had a parent
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  that was not attuned to your emotions, not present, wasn't
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  there for that, and you developed some strategies, and
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  if you brought that into your adult relationship, that can be
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  really a problem. Some examples, a man who learned
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  to defend himself quickly and they might argue about details
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  rather than acknowledging the impact.
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  OK, let me give you a third one. Someone who learned to hide from
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  their mistakes, they're just going to continue to minimize or
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  withhold information. So if hiding from your mistakes
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  actually worked in childhood, you were actually able to get
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  away with it. If you can withhold information,
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  that would seem like that would make more sense for you because
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  that's how I deal with conflict. So there's some comments,
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  destructive communication patterns.
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  We want to talk about some real life examples, so defensiveness
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  one of them. So arguing about the facts
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  instead of acknowledging your partner's pain.
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  Again, we're going through forms of betrayal, violence and the
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  active and will we and hope frames us to actually set the
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  stage for the significance of these things.
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  OK, but it's acts of violence. It is actually a place where
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  this harms your partner or hurts your partner.
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  OK, and it it stems from how I showed up where the betrayal
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  came into existence. So the let me OK, so now I said
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  that let me go back these examples.
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  Defensiveness is a type of betrayal violence, arguing about
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  facts instead of acknowledging your partner's pain pain
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  minimizing saying things like it wasn't that bad or you're
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  overreacting. Sometimes I don't even like my
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  voice inflection with that because is that the way we would
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  actually say it? But if you're minimizing the
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  other one is it's going to be a triggering word, the gaslighting
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  that's suggesting that your partner is remembering something
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  wrong or they misunderstand what happened or they can't remember
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  things correctly just to get the spotlight off of you withdrawal.
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  That's actually a big one. You all.
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  It feels so right in the moment of a response from myself that
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  if I just stop talking, kind of like I just, I shut down and I
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  close off. Like I leave that conversation
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  emotionally or physically when things become uncomfortable, if
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  that's my go to. And that's just the way I handle
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  conflict. That's a form of betrayal,
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  violence, because your partner's having a trauma response and
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  they do recognize there's an appropriateness of needing to
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  leave. If you run, if your window of
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  tolerance, you're outside your window of tolerance.
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  So you're not destructive, but you withdraw in other ways.
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  It's really hurtful. OK, Controlling the process,
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  telling your partner how long healing should take or when they
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  should move on. Shifting the focus, turning the
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  conversation towards your guilt, your shame, your frustration.
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  So your partner's experience using recovery language as a
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  shield. Gross, right?
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  Saying things like I'm doing the work and my therapist or my
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  coach says I'm improving instead of engaging emotionally with
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  your partner. So each of those responses feel
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  protective in the moment, but they can really deepen your
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  partner's pain. We're going to take a quick
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  break for a moment. I want to let you know of some
• 9:43
  things that we have coming up at Choose Recovery Services.
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  If you're a man who's trying to show up differently for your
• 9:50
  partner after betrayal, then listen closely.
• 9:53
  The Helper Heal Intensive is a four day immersive experience
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  built for men who are ready to take responsibility, build
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  emotional skill and become safer partners.
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  This isn't talk therapy. It's a hands on training in how
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  to regulate, listen, and respond without getting defensive when
• 10:09
  things get hard at home. You'll work alongside other men
• 10:12
  who are also serious about change in a focused,
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  confidential setting so you're not trying to figure this out
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  alone. My name is Hallie Roderick and
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  I'm both a professional and someone who's lived through
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  betrayal recovery. Our team is here to give you the
• 10:25
  structure, the tools, and the feedback you need to show up
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  with consistency and integrity in a way that supports real
• 10:32
  safety for your wife. You'll leave with a clear plan
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  for how to act differently, communicate better, and continue
• 10:38
  rebuilding trust when you go home.
• 10:41
  Check out the show notes For more information or how to
• 10:43
  register. If you're serious about helping
• 10:45
  her heal, this is where you start.
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  Let's get back to our episode. OK, so there's this tool out
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  there. Here's a simplified explanation.
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  It's called the ABC pattern of destructive behavior.
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  So destructive reactions usually follow a predictable internal
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  sequence. All right, so first you have
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  activation. And this is about learning these
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  patterns, y'all, This is about going, what is the pattern that
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  I'm in? Like just having clarity around
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  it because we can't stop something we can't see the
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  pattern on. So something that happens that
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  creates discomfort or threat. OK, there's the activation
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  example. My partner expresses anger or
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  sadness about betrayal. So activation happens.
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  B belief. So a quick internal
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  interpretation forms that stories all the dialogue I've
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  had in my head. Example is he's never going to
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  forgive me. I'm being attacked, right?
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  So activation belief, see communication behavior.
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  And this is where the reaction that follows.
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  So examples of this might be a defense of some of the things I
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  just mentioned, right? So I defend, I minimize, I shut
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  down, I redirect the conversation.
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  So if we understand the sequence, that's going to help
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  men slow down that moment before reacting.
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  Hope has something called the floating St. pattern.
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  The floating St. I don't think she calls it
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  pattern. She describes something called
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  the floating St. and this happens when a man responds to
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  shame by trying to appear extremely remorseful, humble or
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  kind of like morally elevated. So examples is excessive
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  apologizing, self condemning statements, presenting self as
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  spiritually or morally transformed.
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  OK, and while this might look responsible on the surface, it
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  can really shift attention away from your partner's experience.
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  So your partner might end up comforting you and reassuring
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  you rather than processing our own pain.
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  And the floating St. pattern is still a form of avoidance
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  because you're not actually showing up authentically.
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  So he's performing. And this is with other people
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  too. That's not just your partner.
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  It's again, morally elevated. It's used like I remember early
• 13:04
  on with Alana, like breaking down, crying, sobbing.
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  And she's like, Luke, can you not cry for a moment?
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  Can we actually focus on what I'm experiencing?
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  And I'm like, wait, hold on, Isn't that what I'm supposed to
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  be doing? Like I, I'm supposed to be
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  feeling like a pile of crap? Like I remember being
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  embarrassed, shame showing up. Wait, isn't that what I'm
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  supposed to be doing? So I was performing, right?
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  I was performing. It was taking the focus off of
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  her and putting it on me. And then we I could direct, I
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  could be in control. I had no idea, by the way, that
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  was not intentional. That was not like, hey, I got
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  that way out of this. I mean, by the way, it's worked
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  a lot in our relationship. In fact, we still both have to
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  be really aware of it. And I will get really resentful
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  towards her when she doesn't step into that pattern.
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  And she's done a good job noticing when I do and to me
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  noticing what comes up with me when I do.
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  So y'all learning about betrayal, violence, it's going
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  to be really uncomfortable. It can be if you haven't already
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  been there. A lot of us internally feel
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  defensive or overwhelmed when they, when we recognize our own
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  behaviors are like, oh crap, just like that.
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  When I said she's like, can you stop?
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  Can we actually focus on me? You're can you pick yourself up
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  off the floor so I can actually notice?
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  Am I going to have space in this or you just going to have a pity
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  party? So that growth requires being
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  willing to look honestly at those patterns, be able to go,
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  OK, what's happening without that collapse into shame?
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  Shame actually isn't useful here.
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  And that accountability and a passion really has to exist
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  together. OK, So we went to this concept
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  today of betrayal, violence, and we.
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  And this concept exists in destructive relational patterns.
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  And this is one of the modules in the phase two curriculum that
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  spends the whole module on this acts against partner and this
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  relational piece, that relational translation.
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  So a, we just want a structured environment where men can
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  identify patterns and feedback from other men can help reveal
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  reactions that can be hard to see alone.
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  In fact, it's crazy. The stuff that Alana will tell
• 15:10
  me over and over again, and I don't actually see it until
• 15:14
  somebody else has it drives her nuts.
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  It has in the past. So we need those environments
• 15:21
  that exist where we can say things where shame doesn't hold
• 15:24
  the same power for us. So phase two curriculum and not
• 15:27
  group that container exists for us to identify those patterns
• 15:31
  and to learn to stay more present, learn to stay
• 15:33
  accountable, be emotionally engaged during those difficult
• 15:36
  conversations. So if you're trying to do this
• 15:39
  on your own, please don't. Please get into a safe space.
• 15:41
  It doesn't have to be. Choose recovery services.
• 15:43
  Find that environment that exists where you can be able to
• 15:46
  state where shame shows up for you and your relationship.
• 15:48
  Men can hold you accountable, but also can be emotionally
• 15:52
  engaged with you. And that love still exists and
• 15:55
  respect, but it's called out. You're accountable for your
• 15:59
  behavior. And overtime those changes,
• 16:02
  they're going to support a deep level of safety and repair.
• 16:04
  So anyway, it was good to spend time with you.
• 16:07
  So next time we're going to focus, we're going to shift more
• 16:09
  from recognizing what our destructive patterns are to
• 16:12
  learning what healthy conflict actually looks like, how
• 16:15
  boundaries work because guess what?
• 16:17
  Men have boundaries in order not to block people out there, to
• 16:21
  make sure they can be safe inside of themselves, to be able
• 16:23
  to communicate and create safety instead of damage.
• 16:27
  So we do need that stuff. So what it really means to show
• 16:30
  up differently in difficult conversations because I do need
• 16:33
  to be present for difficult conversations, then you need to
• 16:35
  happen and you need to run towards difficult conversations
• 16:38
  rather than having them show up and I don't realize they are, I
• 16:41
  need to be able to be inside there with them.
• 16:43
  OK. And then we will talk about that
• 16:45
  next time is good spending time with you always.
• 16:47
  Please keep the comments coming. You guys feedback is amazing
• 16:51
  when you can give it to us on what you need, what you're
• 16:54
  hoping for. That is instrumental because
• 16:57
  we're here to serve you and give you what you need in our
• 16:59
  recovery. And just a note, please don't
• 17:03
  give up. If today's a heavy day, if
• 17:05
  today's a hard day, if you're like, is recovery possible?
• 17:10
  Just notice that emotion, feel that, don't run from that.
• 17:13
  Notice what unhealthy coping is when you fill that hopelessness.
• 17:20
  And what healthy is unhealthy? Definitely.
• 17:22
  The first part is acknowledging it, noticing it, not running
• 17:25
  from it, and then giving it a voice and talking about it and
• 17:28
  then reflecting on the tools to be used.
• 17:31
  So anyway, good to spend time with you.
• 17:35
  If you've been doing everything you can to heal, listening to
• 17:38
  the podcast, reading the books, going to therapy, and you still
• 17:41
  feel the impact of betrayal in your body and nervous system,
• 17:44
  this message is for you. The Revive and Thrive Somatic
• 17:47
  Healing Intensive is designed for women who know that talking
• 17:51
  and processing have helped and have been important, but also
• 17:55
  feel that something deeper is still holding on.
• 17:58
  Betrayal doesn't just live in your story, it lives in your
• 18:00
  body. And if we don't address the
• 18:02
  physical imprint of trauma, we may be missing the very thing
• 18:05
  that could help you take the next step forward.
• 18:08
  My name is Hallie Roderick, and as a professional and a woman
• 18:10
  who's walked this healing journey myself, I'm honored to
• 18:13
  be part of a skilled and compassionate team that holds
• 18:15
  this intensive. Together, we create a safe,
• 18:18
  supported, and deeply guided environment where women can heal
• 18:22
  from the inside out. You won't just learn about
• 18:24
  somatic healing, you'll experience it through breath
• 18:27
  work, movement, nervous system regulation, and embodied
• 18:31
  practices that help your system finally, exhale.
• 18:34
  You can find all the details in the show notes, and I would
• 18:36
  truly love the opportunity to spend some time with you in
• 18:39
  person as we do this healing work together.
• 18:47
  Hey, thanks for joining us today.
• 18:48
  If this is something that you connected with, I'd love to meet
• 18:51
  with you more and talk about it. So what you can do is go to
• 18:54
  chooserecoveryservices.com or check the show notes and there
• 18:58
  what we can do is set up a quick conversation meeting.
• 19:00
  Thanks so much for listening to Beyond the Facade where we
• 19:03
  unmask the authentic cell.