Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 172 - Nekoda Smythe-Davis: Leaving Sport Broke Me, But It Also Brought Me Home to Myself

Transcript

172 - Nekoda Smythe-Davis: Leaving Sport Broke Me, But It Also Brought Me Home to Myself · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Being an athlete is everything.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: It is life and death.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: It is literally life and death.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it nothing is more important.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing that's going on in the world is important.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: It is literally life and death.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then you realize that things can be taken away from you like that, and it just gives you perspective.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: And now it wasn't all about sport and judo and Olympics and life and death.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: It was actually like, do you know what?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't have your health, if you don't have your mental health, you don't really have anything.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: And uh there are people out there that struggle with both those things and don't have the opportunities.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: So actually, let me just focus on getting my mental health and my physical health back to a point where I can actually live my life and be happy, whether that's in sport or out of sport.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so it just gave me huge perspective.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yeah, I was just like, you know what?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: It is what it is.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Let's move on.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Ryan Gold Salvus, and welcome to the Second Win Academy Podcast, a show all about career transition through the length of elite athlete.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Each week I invite a gets to the show story.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Elite athletes are still people after.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Nicoda, welcome to the show.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me, Ryan.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you have been touted as someone who's got great stories, so I'm looking forward to this chat today.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm trying like, let's be, you know, you want to be interesting, you don't just want to go over the same stories, you want to bring something new, different.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a few things.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have any sleeves, but I've got a few things up my sleeve.
• 2:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm looking forward to sort of well, essentially delving in a bit more into your career progression and how you've managed the transition from athlete.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I say transition from athlete.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Once an athlete, always an athlete, but I talk about that career shift and and what that impact has been for you.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm looking forward to stepping, stepping through that and hearing some stories along the way.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So look, Nikoda, we've got those watching and listening.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give us your 30-second intro, who you are and what you're up to nowadays?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, wow, I just feel like I'm your regular, regular five foot two pint-size female.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Grew up in London, born and bred, um, started judo at the age of six, and didn't think I'd be any good at it, um, had no aspirations of being a star or even getting as far as my black belt.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I ended up going as far as you know, representing Great Britain and going to the Olympics.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: And that has absolutely shaped my life and shaped most of my life decisions.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: And now I'm 32, mum of one, and recently retired and married, and just going into that next chapter.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's so weird when people talk to me, they go, You're retired and you're 32.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that doesn't make sense.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: But it's not the kind of retirement they're thinking of.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: But in a nutshell, that's me.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that that is great.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I it's funny, you you're quite right when we talk about being retired as an as an athlete in early 30s, sometimes in 20s, but for you to be retired as an athlete, how do you answer that when people go, What do you what do you mean, retired?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do that, do you think they think you're like a billionaire who's now just chilling out?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they go, Oh, how lucky it would be to be retired at 32, you know, like half the age of the normal retirement age.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I kind of just laugh it off.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really respond.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: I go, Oh, yeah, like it's you know, it's so cool.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't really respond them, not knowing that like the bank balance is low, and uh like anyone, you're gonna have to struggle through life now to to make ends meet and uh get yourself a job.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you then think then of this concept of athletic retirement, what's been one of the biggest shifts for you already?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think the biggest shift is I identity.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's how you show up for yourself each day and also how other people um now speak to you, um, how they address you, you know, they now address you as someone who has been.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: You're not someone who currently is doing that thing anymore.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, time moves on, they're at the youngsters are up on and on the on the scene, there's more exciting people to talk about and results to speak about.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just a shift, it's a complete shift in identity.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I can completely understand how some people don't move with that shift, end up in this space where they find it very hard when they transition, because I guess somewhat they're still clutching onto that old version of them when your identity and your perception of your identity has to shift with everyone else's as well, and kind of where your next stage is in life.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, it's it's definitely not easy, but I do think that I did do it well.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the kind of things I'd love to get into today.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, I would say doing it well, and indeed, because you're so early into that track in that post or into that retirement, athletic retirement phase.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you you talk about recently getting married, recently retiring.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a lot of shifts that happen, you know, and hey, and you're just packing them all in there at the same time.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you go for it, not waiting around.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um you said something interesting about being an athlete defined you, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So through judo, it defined you, but you said earlier about shaped some of the decisions that you had to make.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose that's perhaps somewhere where I want to really start getting into is what those decisions were, and uh perhaps some of the influences to how that what helped you to make those decisions as well would be really good to step into.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So let's do that by going in right at the start.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: You said you started doing judo at six, like proper judo or just like getting beaten up by siblings and stuff like that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, I started actual judo classes at my primary school.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Now I remember going back to that time and I love to learn.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: I love school.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: I was a nerd in that way, and so judo was just another extension of that for me.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: I loved learning the names of the judo holds and the throws, and then the moment it came to sparring, I was like, I don't like this, you know.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: So my introduction into judo is not the judo that you'd probably Google or YouTube me and watch me flinging people.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's not how I started judo.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: I started judo, and it was just another thing for me to, you know, to learn.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: I love TikTok exercising, and you do your gradins and you tick off all the holds and throws it, you know, and you feel this sense of accomplishment and achievement, and that is what I loved about it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that is what I loved about it, and uh that was my whole reason for continuing the sport in the beginning and enjoying it.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like what you in you enjoyed a bit of the really enjoyed a bit of the process, the structure of it all that that helped you.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: As you got older, hitting your teens, academically was what were you drawn to academically?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you said that you're a bit of a nerd, I'm interested to see what those subjects were and things that captured your interest.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, full-on maths geek, full on love numbers, um, love anything to do with numbers, and so that's where I was really drawn.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: But then I just loved learning full stop, and I loved my brain was really good at picking things up quickly, and you know, I don't know, I I loved being at the top of the class.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: I loved, you know, getting that praise from the teacher or winning some award or you know, I was a high achiever, and I kind of only really just clicked that high achiever mentality was what I also did end up get having in judo as well.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, even though naturally I wasn't probably the typical sporty person to begin with, I think the high achiever mentality.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: What makes you say that you weren't the typical sporty person?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think of it now.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like now I get to work with kids quite frequently, and the ones who are the sporty kids stand out.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: You run a circuit or they come to a judo class and they just get stuck in.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: They're not hesitant, they get stuck in, you know, they throw themselves into it, and then you've got the ones that stand at the back a little bit more, they're a bit more shy, they're a bit more tentative, they like to dip their toe in first, test the waters, and then when they feel completely safe, and that can take some time, then they start to come out of their shell, and then you start to see the magic in them.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that was me.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was never, I never threw myself into it.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: I was shy, I was tentative.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm definitely a test to see if it's safe first, test to see if the ground's steady before throwing yourself into that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, I was not your typical sporty person in the beginning.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: I was quite the opposite.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what changed?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: What helped you to lean into the sport and become well, fall in love with it?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would say like my high-achieving mentality, um, and I just had this resilience from a kid.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: If I didn't win or if I didn't get something right, I was like, no, I need to try and do better.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: I've got to, I've got to get back up and I've got to try again.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say I had such strong females around me.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: I never grew up with my dad.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I never actually met my dad until I was 25.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: But growing up around my mum, who's single mum, strong female, my coach at the time, strong female, and then when I was 11 and I moved from my primary school, I ended up with another strong female as well.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: And they were just all three of them were very nurturing, and they got that I wasn't always great at things first, but I had passion there, and so they nurtured that and they knew I wanted to learn, and I was like a sponge.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: So you don't have to have that natural ability to begin with.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: But if you've got that sponge-like mentality of I want to learn and I want to do better and I want to get up and try again, I think that for me, and it wasn't an overnight thing, it was so gradual as well.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was just gradual, it was just step by step.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't just wake up one day and I was amazing at the sport and I started winning medals, very, very gradual over the years.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I wholeheartedly put it down to mentality and I put it down to having those strong females around me who just nurtured, you know, my gifts, the things I was good at.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: That environment, the the spotters, that mentor, the people who are able to bring that out of you.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you talk about you use the word mentality, but you know, you've already started to break down what you mean by that mentality.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you was a it was systematized, it was you were patient, you were certainly prepared to learn, and those, and then you had, like you say, this high achievement orientation that kicked in, which I suppose we will shorthand and say there was a competitive edge to want to be that best and get that recognition, right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh recognition's a key value.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: When did you realise you were good at this?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: There was a distinctive moment.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: I remember at the time when I left my primary school club at 11.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: I should mention that I actually tried to quit judo, it was a six week holidays, and I didn't, I didn't go.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I didn't have school, so I didn't go to judo.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I was a yellow belt, so I'd got my second belt in judo.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I said to my mum, because being the natural fearful person of stepping into new waters, I was like, I'm not going to a new club.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I've been going to my primary school club for five years.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: No way am I stepping into a new club, new territory with new people.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And my mum didn't push me in the sense of like, you have started something, you have to finish it.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: She just said, you know, how nice would it be to complete the journey and get your black belt?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Yeah, okay, maybe.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: And she was the one who encouraged me to go and join this club.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: And when I joined that club, there was the strong female coach I told you about, her name's Jo, um Jo Crowley.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she runs Elon Judo Club in London, and then I had another coach at the time, um, a male coach, and both of them together were just like a dynamo um force, I think.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: She brought the soft nurturing edge, and he brought the you know, disciplinarian, and you didn't want to let him down.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: You wanted to make sure that you made him proud.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when you went out there in competition, you made him proud.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: And there was this distinctive moment when I was 13, and I'd been to a couple national championships before.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think I won a bronze medal already at the pre-cadets, and then um I think I'd won another medal the year after, but it wasn't a gold.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I got to the final of 2013 um national championships.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh was it 2013?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: 2000 and probably six, because I would have been 13, yeah, 2006.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember getting to the final and I'd had a really good day, and we'd been working so hard, like so hard, training multiple times a week and everything.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember just pulling out the bag, this spectacular judo throw, one of my actual favourites that have got me won me big medals as I went later on in my career, and I scored an IPON, which is a knockout in judo, so it'd be the equivalent of just you know punching someone flooring them, and you know, the fight's finished.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, in boxing, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so did this big technique, pulled off an Ippon, and that was it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: The fight was over, I'd won gold.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: And the first thing I did was cheered, and I looked up into the stands at my coach that was sat in the stands, my my male coach, and I just remember that feeling of being like, I did it, like he's happy, he's proud, he nearly jumped over the barriers.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it was that moment of like I've worked really hard for this and it's paid off.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, I thought I could be good at this, I think.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was only 13, you know, you're still so young, but it was that moment where it was just like, okay, I'm not just a contender, I'm not just here to make up the numbers or to be somewhere on the podium, but I'm at the top, and that was probably the turning point for me of like this winning stuff feels good.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I could do more of this.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great, and it is often at that time, but you know, it's interesting, roughly that age where you start to feel yourself as maybe maybe I can go somewhere here, maybe this could lead into something else.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting for you, it happened there, and catching your coach's eye and feeling well, it seems like pride for what you'd done for for him or for them as as your coaches as well.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, where did you start to dream?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: What did you start to think you'd want to become?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I could call it like imposter syndrome, but I guess because of my upbringing, we didn't have much opportunities.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to do a lot of things, I wanted to do different sports, I wanted to, you know, and my mum just couldn't afford it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: So judo was the only thing really that we stuck at long term.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, Nicoda, what why is that?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is is judo a cheaper sport to do than something else?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it still is to be fair.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: It still is one of the cheapest sports out there.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um far cheaper than jiu-jitsu and MMA right now.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it's still one of the cheaper sports out there, and at the time it was as well.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why I remember, I don't know.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: I've got three pounds in my head, but I think sessions used to be three pounds.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and we just stuck at judo.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: I tried different things, but we just my mum couldn't afford to do everything, but she just made sure that she worked hard so that we could keep doing judo.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so I don't know whether I just because I'd never seen like people around me, I didn't grow up with loads, I didn't grow up with family, it was just me and my brother.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't see I didn't see people that went to uni, I didn't see people that were having big jobs, I didn't see people that drove cars, you know, or lived in houses that had nice things in or whatever.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I just never ever believed that it was possible for me to achieve anything big in life.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: I just always thought I'd do my best in the cards I've been dealt, and that's it.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I never had a dream.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so weird because when I talk to loads of other Olympians, loads of other people that have achieved big things in sport, they have this Olympic dream from really young, and I didn't have that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: And although I knew about it, I just never thought I would be I it could even be possible for me.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just didn't think it'd be possible.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got to ask, what why didn't you think it'd be possible for for you, for someone like you?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: We were poor, and I was just like a little black kid growing up on council estate in London.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's just thought why I thought my life would be.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: I never ever dreamed that I would drive a car or own my own house or have a husband or have, you know, I never saw that, so I just never believed it was possible, and I never had people around me where I believed it was possible.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I just didn't never had that dream.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's almost like I have a little bit of a pessimistic mindset in the sense of like, if you don't ever dream or think that these things can happen, then you can never be disappointed if they don't.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's yeah, I think that's where I was, even at a younger, I was very self-aware at a very young age.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was my mindset from a very young age.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Realistic, be realistic.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about, oh, you mentioned before how judo shaped some of the decisions that you made.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious then when that started to happen because at this point, you're just doing it, you're competing, you're playing, and you're clearly being successful.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think you know, 16 GCSEs, starting to think about what did you do?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: How did judo start to shape your decisions around that time in terms of where you could compete in the short term, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So not this long dream to Olympics is everything, I'm going to make it, but how did it start to shape the way you approached your life and how you used your time?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: As from that point where I kind of switched on that thing in my head that said, look, this is something that you could do and be good at, I started taking it, I guess, more seriously and caring more.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: And as I started working through like the cadet ranks and stuff, I quickly became number one over a period of a few years, probably one of the most consistent, always in the weight category, always on the British team.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so the big kind of first milestone was going to be the cadet Europeans and the youth Olympic championships.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: But there was a huge hurdle.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was the daughter of an immigrant parent and I didn't have British citizenship.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: My mum never really had the money or resources to go through the process of applying for it for us, so we never had passports or anything like that.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was like, okay, I'm at a point where the team want to take me away, they want me to travel and represent Great Britain, but I physically cannot go until I get this sorted.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Then that was the first hurdle we had to overcome.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I got my passport two weeks before I left for the Cadet Europeans, and my coach was amazing.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: She managed to convince them to still select me on the basis that I would get my passport and citizenship just in time.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess that first international trip really then shaped my future because I was 16, going on a plane for the first time, representing Great Britain at the Cadet European Championships.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the biggest events were a cadet.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was dealing with all the firsts, all the feelings, the nerves, the fears, and all the rest of it, but also the excitement of a new adventure.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: And also that thought of like another door had just opened for me that I never thought was possible.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: I never thought I'd go on a plane, never thought I'd have a passport.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't think I'd be even in this position where I'm wearing the flag on my chest and representing the country.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: So a massive new door opened for me.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then when that door opened, it then decided it started to shape everything.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it started to shape school.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, now it wasn't just about getting my GCSEs, it was about also excelling in sport as well and in judo.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so then I became very much dedicated to doing both.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: And uh obviously that juggle was very, very hard, very difficult at that age.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine it was because you are striving to achieve academically and athletically when you think, and that and that's 16, so this is quite a young age, big exams, like we were saying.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how did you navigate that?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: What was the support structure to help you get through that that period?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: My coach was really good at having a good relationship with my mum and making sure that like you know everyone was on the same page.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: My school understood and was very supportive as well.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess from my point of view, not only am I going through that, but I'm also a teenager as well.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm navigating boyfriends, friends, you know, hanging out with people, doing you know, naughty things, stealing from shops and things like that, and trying not to get myself into trouble at the same time, you know, navigating all of that.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it was not easy.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was not easy.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: I missed proms.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't go to loads of things that other people went to.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't get to do that.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: I was always on the away on the weekends competing, I was always travelling, so a lot of sacrifice as well.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but my coach and my mum, again, two very strong females who did not hold back to tell me when I needed to hear some words, and also just encouraged me as well, constantly encouraging me, constantly encouraging me, constantly proud of me.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I would go off straight off the path a few times and it'd grab me, pull me back, and be like, look, don't mess up your life, you've got an opportunity here.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I never went too far or never got myself too deep into something that I couldn't get myself out of.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: That is how I navigated that messy, messily.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think everyone, every teenager, it's messy.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's not neat and tidy.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is a messy time, and you know, you have in in some respects, it sounds like the judo helped keep you on the straight and narrow at that time as well.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: You were reminded of there being an opportunity.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: How did that opportunity start to play out in those early years?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: What decisions did you make?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hit six form?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Were you thinking, right, I've got to do university?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because judo, whilst it can be full-time training, isn't necessarily a professional sport.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So how were you thinking, hey, opportunity here, but how are you gonna do your career there?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: That was the dilemma.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Once I got to college and I was still juggling both judo and my academic, I actually really struggled towards the last year of my A levels.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think I took tricky A levels, I took chemistry and maths, and I also took further maths in second year, and the I just couldn't manage the workload, and I and I fell short, I think a little bit on both sides.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't get the grades I probably should have.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um I call them my compromise grades.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: I got my compromise grades, and then I took, I ended up taking two months out of the sport as well around exam time.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I kind of left college feeling like I failed a little bit on both sides.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Judo was going okay.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I was still pretty much number one junior at that time, um, getting selected for various, you know, events and championships and navigating injury a little bit as well.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: But as I was leaving college, I knew I didn't want to go to university.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: I was so burnt out from that period.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I can't possibly look at another textbook for a while.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I just need a break and I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I just said I want to start to provide for myself.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: And at 17, 17, 18, probably 18, I moved out from home and I started renting a room in a house, got myself several jobs.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I had three jobs whilst trying to still train in the evenings and then pick up extra training.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I hadn't really done weights before or anything, so I started trying to work with a weights coach and I started trying to basically build some sort of full-time training environment, but I wasn't in a training full-time training environment.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was just trying to do it with my coach.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And is that typical?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is that normal?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you're British number one coming into the senior ranks, I guess.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is that typical of a judoka?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what I've got the right phrase?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of a judoka.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is that typical where it is?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's that's that's the way how it is for amateur sports, it's the way it is for the sports that don't have money.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't even have a kind of solid and stable centralized system at that point.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: But that is kind of where the next big jump came in because after doing that for two years, so from 18 to 20, I was literally rubbing coins together to pay my bills and to survive.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Plus, I was absolutely exhausted from working all the jobs and trying to train constantly.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, sometimes I'd get home from my I worked in a sushi shop selling sushi and rolling sushi and stuff, and uh, I'd get home in the evening sometimes in my uniform and I'd go, I'll sit down on my bed just for a bit and have a rest.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd fall asleep and I'd wake up in the morning and I'd be like, Oh my gosh, I've got a shift in half an hour, and I'm still in my work uniform from yesterday's last evening shift, and that is how it was, it just became overwhelming at a point, and I said, you know what, I can't carry on like this, and at that point, I think something amazing happened.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: We had a national centre that opened up in 2013, and it was right at that point where it was sort of breaking point for me, and I said, you know what, I'm gonna have to do it, I'm gonna have to move from London to the Midlands.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's in Warsaw, um just north of Birmingham in the country, and basically you go there, you get a funding wage.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was 10 grand for the year that I started on, and you get your coaching support, yeah, 10,000 pounds for the year.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was like 633 pounds a month or something I remember getting.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um no, that it might be the bit, it might have been 800 something, yeah.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then you get your physio support, you get your medical cover, you get your competitions paid for, you know, you're now not having to self-fund everything, you're getting it all paid for, and you're getting a little bit of pocket money as well.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And living in the Midlands a lot cheaper than living in London.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: So it meant that I could come out of a house share and actually rent a flat with my boyfriend at the time who was also doing judo.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so it just was just an amazing opportunity to come away from what had been a struggling life all up until this point, and to actually get some stability, and that is exactly what it gave me.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Stability, the ability as well to focus on sport.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: How did that change your approach to judo?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Judo now became not just a sport to me or just another thing I was doing alongside everything else, it became everything, it became my career path now.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: And at 20, I knew looking at how my life was gonna continue forwards, that I was probably gonna spend most of my 20s doing this.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember going, oh gosh, I'm gonna spend all my best years here, like doing this as a career and as a job.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's probably gonna be, you know, you work it out in Olympic cycles, and I go, Well, I'll probably be at least late 20s, early 30s before I finish.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's a big life choice, and not only that, I was leaving my coach who was my rock, my comfort, my everything, you know, my family basically, because I didn't grow up with loads of family.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I was leaving my family, all my family, my judo family, and moving and starting with new coaches, and it it was tough, it was tough, but I couldn't have continued on as I had been, and it was the right choice for me at that time.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that change, you know.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I always talk about these career transitions, but there's also the social, the psychosocial, you've got your financial changes, all of these shifts that happened throughout a career really important.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And for you, that move from London up to Warsaw was, I guess it it brought a lot of that with it.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: It made that social circle had to shift, the financial situation had to shift.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious though, had that not happened, had you not made that move, it sounds like were you prepared to walk away from judo?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what what were you going to do?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think I would have hit a really low place, I think I would have hit a really low depression.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think I would have just I wasn't good at, wasn't very good at knowing where my limits were, and so I would just keep going.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I've ever seen my mum do, you know.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: My mum would just keep going, she had no choice, you didn't have anyone to pass us off to, so and I think I just had that, you know, push yourself mentality, and I would do that, and I would go and I'd go and I'd go, and then I would just burn out, and I had gotten to that point, and so for me, I think I would have either that would have either manus manifested itself through an injury and I and that would have been devastating, or I would have just mentally had not been able to do it anymore, and so that the the centre came at a really crucial point for me, and honestly, that stability, even though it didn't have all the elements that I think I needed to really maximise my full potential, I never quite had the coaching relationships that I needed, and the structure wasn't always great.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but if you look at how quickly my trajectory was from that point, it was huge.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the year later in 2014, I became Commonwealth champion at age 21, and then I was qualifying for the games as someone who'd just come out of juniors in 2016.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: So even though it wasn't perfect, I didn't come from the background of some of the other kids that went there at that time who had stability, who had they were coming straight from home, didn't know how to boil an egg, you know.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was living on my own, I knew how to do everything for myself, I knew how to pay bills and and tax and you know, clean my own house and all these things and cook for myself.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it just gave me stability, and I think that was enough for me to free up my mind enough to.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Just do what I do best and just do judo.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: It was amazing.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think your achievements, your achievements are clearly fantastic, right?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Commonwealth, World, Olympic, and you know, never mind nationals, which in itself is absolutely amazing.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness me.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Winning county, but you know.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think in terms of that career, it's absolutely fantastic.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it does sound like it, you know, it was a great launch pad for you.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: During that period, during those the highs and and lows, but the highs of your career as you went through, was there any sort of work done with regards to what you do outside of judo, what the next step looks like?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: How was that supported in, I guess, in that that British judo camp?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was something that developed while I was there.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Over the 10 years that I was there, I got to witness a lot of things that wasn't great, a lot of mistakes, and then also them kind of learning from those and progressing and moving forwards and going through this process of understanding that there's there's an afterlife after this.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time there was quite a huge dropout rate of people not making or not reaching their their standards at a certain point, leaving and then not actually having any prospects, um, and then almost carrying this realization that look, we're not setting up these young people for life, and so that shifted while I was there, and I was lucky in a sense, because I peaked earlier than everybody else and never really had to battle that straight away.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: But being the higher achiever and that that mindset that I have, I was already one step ahead.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: So although I then still didn't decide to go to university, I was really caught up with judo, but I started then making a brand for myself and I set myself up a business and I started just sharing my expertise within the sport.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: I started going into schools and working with different organizations and just saying yes to opportunities.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Look like public speaking, it looked like going to events where you would, you know, give inspirational talks and talk about resilience to even if it was just a law firm and corporate people, you know, wave a shiny medal around and tell them that yeah, tell them that you were, you know, you won this by being resilient and all the rest of it.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess just people are moved by stories, aren't they?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: I just got better at sharing my story, I got better at inspiring others, and so, you know, inspiring young children as well.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of quickly realised that my other calling was to transform young people's life in the way that my life had been transformed by the sport.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so I felt very much like it was my duty, and I just I just started doing that while I was still an athlete, and it wasn't hard for me because I was passionate about it.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I then was like, okay, you know, this judo thing, it's not gonna get me a you're live enough funding, you don't get paid to do the sport.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: So as far as they're concerned, the tax man looks at you and you go, Well, you've not done anything for 10 years, you know, you haven't, you haven't.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, right, I've got to set myself up as self-employed, I've got to, you know, make sure that I'm earning and make sure that I can afford a house at some point soon, you know, I can get finance on a car or whatever it is.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I've got to look like I'm still progressing as an adult, even though I'm doing this amazing thing.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: What made you think that was important?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're a national champion, you're a hero.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: What made you think you had to set that those types of structures up?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues, and unfortunately.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's time every year we see thousands of factories and reach a point where they need to consider their life factories.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the founder of the Second Wind Academy.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to help those around me find their career second wind.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Find me on Insta or to my new Facebook group, Second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, I think it came from the pit the fear of being poor, and I think it came from the fear of like watching my mum struggle with us, and knowing that one day I always knew from very young that I wanted to be a mum, and I knew that I wanted to give my child the best upbringing and the best life possible.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: You're not going to be a perfect parent, but I wanted to make sure that I could afford electricity and gas and food, and you know, if she wants to try something, I can afford for her to go and try that sport, try that instrument or whatever it is.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that was my honestly, I think deep down, when I get to the core of it, that is my driving force into why if someone said, I know it's your weekend off and you've been doing, you've been traveling to Dubai and to China and Japan, you must be tired, but will you come this weekend and do this?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Will you come midweek after training and come and do this event?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I would just go, yeah, even if there was no money attached, I'd just say yes, because I just knew that I might open a door that might one day open another door that might mean even once this elite career is over, I'm not gonna be poor.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm gonna be able to earn myself a living, I'm gonna be able to use myself and brand myself and make some money somehow.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned uh this desire to have children, and you know, it's probably off camera now, but you have this beautiful Wendy House as well there.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in the background, yeah, yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Surely, as an elite athlete, as an elite female athlete, do you have time for children?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's a whole whirlwind.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we probably need another hour to dissect that, but I'll I'll say in short that I just had a plan.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: And my plan was to go to two games.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't meddle at my first games, it wasn't the fairy tale games.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: I got injured 10 weeks before, the whole sob story of picking up an injury at the worst time possible in your career, right?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't mean I would have still won if I hadn't of, but I would have had more of a chance, yeah.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's okay.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was young, I was only 23 when I went to the games.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: I knew I had at least another one in me.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: 27, Tokyo was going to be my peak games, and everything was heading in that direction.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so my plan was peak games, get on the podium, you know, even if it's not a gold and you fall a little bit short, and you get on the podium, it's an Olympic medal, and then you retire.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: You retire, you ha you have your baby.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't consider I'd still have a partner or anything, I didn't consider all that, you know.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I had it planned out.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna go to Tokyo, get get pregnant straight after, yeah, and just start my life as a mum, and in all the other various things I'd been building up up until that point.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that was my plan.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: And uh life doesn't always go to plan though, does it?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess not.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've got COVID, we've got things shifting around and and all sorts that kick in that that make make that happen.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: When you look at your career, all right, yeah as uh judoka.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: What are the highlights for you?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Road trips.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: Even in the early days, before I got my passport and I could travel on planes, we used to drive up and down everywhere, up and down the country, and we'd always be in a people carrier, so there'd be like eight of us all in one car, and it's just banter, just banter the whole way there, banter the whole way back.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: You've got this sort of like sibling relationship with everyone from the club, and you wind each other up, but you root for each other when you get there at the comp, you're just like this force of children to be reckoned with, and so highlight moments for me are those special moments that I guess at the time you take for granted, but they're special, and then all the moments where I was able to show my hard work through the achievements.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think I always bang on about it's not all about the medals because it isn't, but those medal moments, all your hard work wrapped into one on that one day, because it's just that one day where everything aligns, and you achieve something great.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, Michael Moff Gold Medal, my two world medals, um I got a junior European medal as well.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: And although I always felt like I could have achieved more, those days were enough for me to be like, you were enough.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: You you did it, you made something of yourself when you probably never ever thought it was possible.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's the people, it's those moments where you're able to when everything's able to align on the day, and you have that special euphoric moment where you win.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I guess it's just the life lessons that the sport has taught me as well.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, resilience is not because you just have resilience, like you have to have resilience, you build resilience over time.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had to be resilient when I got injured 10 weeks before the games, and it was my first big injury, and I get told you can't do any judo before the games in preparation.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how can you not be resilient?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: You have to be.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: So people think that you're either resilient or you're not, but it's not true.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think you build resilience based off the things that you go through, and so we shouldn't despise going through hard things because that's how you build resilience.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm almost grateful for those moments as well.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because yeah, I wouldn't be resilient.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, it's it's everything, it's there's not one thing that you could pick out, there's so many little things, but yeah, it's the memories and the people and those really special moments.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: At what point did you start to realize it it was gonna be over?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's it, I'm done.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um maybe I cheated this point because I actually had it three years.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, I actually had that four years prior, or five years prior almost.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had it around COVID time because I had had a concussion injury that had taken me out just before COVID hit, and I was trying to make my way back, and COVID stunted that.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: And after COVID, I tried to get back again and I couldn't get back.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'd lost all my tolerance to this to do the sport.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: And when I tell people I couldn't even do a forward roll, if you've seen judo, if you can't do a forward roll, you're gonna struggle to do judo.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean you lost your tolerance for the sport?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I had like a post-concussion syndrome where I had prolonged symptoms.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: So dizziness, vertigo, I was imbalanced, I had like an issue with one ear, issue with vision on all my left side.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I just would get headaches or migraines.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: If I tried to train, I'd get dizzy, I'd get vertigo.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it was just it was hellish.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so I could not do judo, I just couldn't train, um, and I couldn't do forward rolls.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that was where I was forced to stop.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I made the really hard decision um the year of the rescheduled games in 2021 um to not push myself to try and go.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: I had already qualified, which was a fortunate position to be in that far out, because I'd had such a I'd had my two world medals in that period, so I'd I was already top 10 in the world, top five in the world.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so all I had to do was heal and get better, and I could have competed, but I had been trying for over a year, and I it took its toll on me mentally, and at that point where you can't even walk the dog, I went through a three-month three-month of like I call it the blackout because I couldn't actually be in light places, I couldn't be anywhere where there was noise.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, nothing is worth your health, like no sport, no Olympics, nothing is worth your health.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: And knowing that I still had like my life ahead of me as a mum, as a career woman, and all these other things, I was like, you know what?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Could I be satisfied if I stopped now?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think I could.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so I just made that decision to not put my health at risk, and I decided to just let the time pass between you know, it was like a seven-month period before the games, and uh, once I made the decision, I was at peace with it, and I just focused on then rehabbing and getting better, and then I literally fell pregnant straight away with my daughter.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I was eight months pregnant when the games actually happened, and it was funny because I saw my name on the qualifying sheet thing, and then they had to take me out, and it was weird, but um yeah, that I guess prepared me in some sense for retirement.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: In in what way did it prepare you for retirement?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was just that like reality.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, like you're up in the clouds when you're an athlete.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's being an athlete is everything, it is life and death.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: It is literally life and death.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it nothing is more important, nothing that's going on in the world is important.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: It is literally life and death, and then you realize that things can be taken away from you like that, and it just gives you perspective.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: And now it wasn't all about sport and judo and Olympics and life and death.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: It was actually like, do you know what?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't have your health, if you don't have your mental health, you don't really have anything.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, there are people out there that struggle with both those things and don't have the opportunities, so actually let me just focus on getting my mental health and my physical health back to a point where I can actually live my life and be happy, whether that's in sport or out of sport, and so it just gave me huge perspective, and uh yeah, I was just like, you know what, it is what it is, let's move on.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: I guess wasn't the final, that wasn't the end in no, it wasn't its entirety, yes, thankfully.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um when you came back, come back into the sport, and that's great.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: At this occasion, as you realized, okay, I'm going to be going out now, I'm going to stop competing.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: What was the first thing you did to prepare yourself?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: To stop competing like the second time round.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um oh my gosh.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Processing.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't actually the reason I didn't retire until 2025, but I actually stopped competing a year before.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: So some would say, Didn't you know you were retired from May 2024 when you didn't get the selection for the games?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Didn't you know then?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, No, I didn't.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even force myself to think about it.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just literally took that time because it wasn't about anybody else, it wasn't about other people knowing, oh my god, like what's going on with you?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: Are you retiring?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's going on?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like at that point, I didn't care about anybody else.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was about me processing my whole career, and so the reason I say I felt like I did it well was because I just took my time and I went on my own terms.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't I didn't feel very rushed by the system or by the national, national governing body who wanted answers.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: I just took my time and I probably had a bit of a shut-in for about six months.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um shut in.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: I just did what I wanted to do.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't you live such a con like you feel like you're in control when you're in the athlete, but you're not, you're almost controlled by the sport and you're controlled by the requirements.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so all I did in those six months was I took control of my life and I just did the things that I wanted to do.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: I went to the places that I wanted to go to.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: I saw the people I wanted to see.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: And if I wanted to train, I did, and if I didn't, I didn't.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, it was very healing for me.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: Now I still didn't know I wanted to retire.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: I just thought I'd take a break and I'd use that time to process how I felt about not making the games because I was I was literally millimetres from going, like it was so close, and real close.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: I got picked at the last tournament in in the two-year cycle, and so I just said, you know what, I'm just gonna take time to process, and I'm not gonna feel rushed or pushed by anyone to make any decisions at this moment in time, and then coming into the turn of the year in the new year, uh, you know, six months had already passed by that point, and I needed to get surgery on my wrist.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then as soon as I had my surgery and it was like rehab time, I realized that I didn't have the motivation to rehab like I had done before, and I started losing motivation for training, and then other opportunities started coming up work-wise, some commentating, some coaching, and I was like, you know, this doesn't feel too bad.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: I could I could slowly slip out here, yeah, yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it wasn't until my my actual birthday, so my birthday is the 22nd of April.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: I woke up, and I don't know if it what it's like for other people that have retired, but I just had that moment.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: I literally got up, looked in the mirror, and I went, I'm done.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that was it.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I just knew I was ready to retire and I was at peace with it.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: But it took me a whole like nearly a whole year of processing.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't know it would take me a whole year, and I didn't take a whole year on purpose, it just that's how long it took.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: When you say processing, so you say taking time out for yourself, how people are probably listening as well, and you know, like me or watching and thinking, how do you process?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you mean?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Did you were you with others?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have a counselor?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Was it with your coaches?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Was it with your partner?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: How did you navigate that that that year towards waking up on your birthday um to process how you were feeling and in order for you to be ready?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Can you can you put words to that?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: I can, and it's maybe a little unorthodox with people who you know don't have a faith background or don't believe in God, but it wasn't with my partner, it wasn't with physical people.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'd been to therapy before, but it wasn't even through therapy, it was literally just me and God just shut in, and I was processing my whole life, and there was tears, there was a lot of hurt, there was a lot of navigating a lot of things because the end was messy and I was angry, and so I had to work through all of that, and you know, the biggest thing was I just remember there being a moment where it was just like you know, the whole notion of faith is like if you want to be forgiven for the things that you've done wrong, you have to forgive others, and so I went through this huge forgiveness section of that period where I was angry at a lot of people for different things, and I had to forgive them one by one, and in doing that, it literally set me free.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: And in doing that, I could then just redefine my identity, and I took off the Nakoda the judo girl, and I put on the new identity, and my standard is now not a medal standard, it's not Nakoda the World Silver Medalist, that's the standard.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the standard is who am I as a person?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: Can I forgive others?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: Can I, you know, can I admit when I'm wrong?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, can I admit my faults in the situation?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my standard is now the standard I hold myself to in my faith.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the new me, that is the new standard.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I realized also in that period that we don't just get given one thing in life that we're good at.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: We we get a few things, we get a few opportunities.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it was in that time that I kind of realized and birthed my new thing that I was gonna be that was gonna make me tick, you know, because the sport makes you tick, it makes you it's exhilarating, it's it's electric, it's fast-paced, and it's like, okay, how do you match that afterwards?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: How do you match that high?
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm not gonna smoke weed, you know, I'm not gonna do all these things, I'm not gonna turn to alcohol and partying and all these things.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, how do you get that feeling of that euphoric feeling?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I realized that I'd had it all along, that I knew I had this huge calling to um coach others and to inspire young people, I just started throwing myself into that, and that has been honestly the best like therapy and the best next step for me.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Five months in of shaping and discovering your identity, right?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Which has always been there.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you always wore the the cloak of uh of the judo girl, as you say, and it's more taking that off to to be able to reveal you, uh the the real you.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: How's it going?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: I honestly can't complain.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm so blessed, you know.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: So many things got released when I took off that identity that was shackled a little bit.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was shackled because it it didn't have much else, it just had judo.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so then now you you look at it that you you didn't do university whilst you were uh competing, right?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um you've now stepped into so what what is it that you are doing?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: So right, and and and how'd you get into it?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you wouldn't believe me.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: You generally wouldn't believe me how I got into all the work I'm doing at the beginning.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, my life's just so there's just you know, glimp like little star moments.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I was due my surgery on the 8th of Jan at the start of this year, and then I got chest infection when all these horrible bugs were going around, and I called them up and I said, Hey, I've got chest infection on antibiotics, can I still come?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: They were like, No, we're gonna have to postpone the surgery six weeks.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was in limbo, and that's the worst place to start.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: Start of the year, you don't know what you're doing.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: I had no jobs lined up, I hadn't fully retired yet, but I didn't, I wasn't going back to the sport, I was about to have surgery.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, what am I doing?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I have no prospects right now.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then it was literally the day after I got three separate phone calls from three separate people offering me jobs, and they all were in the line of work that I've wanted to do or or have been interested in or have already done, and I just found it so weird because it was almost like answered prayers because I hadn't had a call for like six months from anyone, like it almost felt like I'd been forgotten about, and then all of a sudden, all on the same day, not related to each other, I got three separate calls with three different people offering me jobs.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so, were these people who you had interacted with previously, were they part of your network?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were people that I knew, essentially, someone like one of them, once someone had said they were looking for someone to run a series of events, someone put my name in the hat, and so that's why I got a call.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the other one, it's very similar.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: My commentating job, they were looking for someone, and someone put my name in the hat.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: So there's this divine intervention of people putting your name in places where your name might have not been, and so that's really for me why it felt like answered prayers, because that's all I wanted.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to do something that was authentically me and something that wasn't jumping into a nine to five because I know I'm smart enough to go and get a nine to five.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: I know I knew people in the corporate world in London and stuff, ex-athletes and other things, but that's not where I wanted to go, and I know it didn't align with me being a mother and me doing the things I wanted to do.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so when these opportunities came up and I could see them all slotting in and aligning, it just literally felt like answered prayers.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_03: And and so at that point, it was just for me to say yes and to try.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the nice thing is, none of most of them wasn't really kicking off until about the middle of the year, so I had time to have my surgery and recover, yeah, start all this work, and then at the end of January, my husband proposed, my husband now husband proposed, and and then before I knew it, we were two and a half months preparing to have the wedding in April, and so then I was married before everything kicked off.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was recovering from my surgery and just setting myself up to to have a really good summer and um back end of this year.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, very lucky.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, these things come together.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting though, those those individuals who reached out reached out because you you had put yourself out in the market.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: You were there.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: People started to know, oh, if you're looking for someone like this, then you would be that right person.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like you were literally just competing and you didn't do anything else, but you you had been out as you mentioned earlier, um, doing the talks, taking the medals, speaking at corporate or speaking with schools, and and so it's this natural thing that that therefore that happened, that came for you.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly that.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so what I said before, I always encourage all athletes, make sure you have something else that you're doing alongside, you know, don't leave yourself just athlete, athlete mentality and just everything's about being an athlete, and I can't give my any more time to anything else, you know.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: Really try and set yourself up to have something after you finish.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Nicoda, what's next for you?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: What's next?
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, I just love dramatic stories and life, my life is never simple.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm currently pregnant, 14 weeks pregnant with my second child.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: In the midst of everything.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, was a surprise, it came as a surprise as well.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which is hard for me because I'm normally like the planner, I like to plan everything, and I had planned, it just wasn't for right this second.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: A lot has happened this year, so I wanted a bit more time, but it's fine, it's fine.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we're we're preparing, and I've recently set up my own judo club, so it's called the Beacon Judo Qui.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: And we're not on socials yet, but I am in the process of doing my website, and people can contact us at beaconjudohotmail.com and they can all find me through my personal Instagram, my judo Instagram, Nakota Judo underscore 93, I think it is.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, so I'm just sort of birthing that now, and we've got like 20 members so far, so we're we're working, we're building.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I just see myself pushing that forwards.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I'm gonna work as much as I can while I'm kind of pregnant and not too big, and then when the baby comes next year in March, I'll take a little bit of time and then I'll just dip my toe back in slowly when it when it comes to work and stuff.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: The blessing is is that my husband is supporting us, so there isn't that pressure there to you know leave baby straight away and and get back in out there, but he knows what I'm like to sit at home.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was an athlete mum for two years, we kind of glossed over that, but I was an athlete mum for two years, so that is the definition of I can't sit down.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, that in itself does bring lots of challenges, I think.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, I would guess having never given birth myself, not during my playing career.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: But for you, then you know, you talk about then this great this next chapter, and you know, you set yourself up, or you're setting yourself up with the the club and and things are working well, I think that's absolutely fantastic.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you gave a little hint of it there, but when you think as young athletes, as young judokers come to you and you know seek your advice on how to perhaps best set themselves up for the life after sport, what advice do you give to them?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_03: First thing I tell them is that medals aren't everything, and the biggest thing, and I think the one thing I mentioned mention I meant to mention earlier is that the thing my mum always used to say to me, my mum never cared about the medals.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: She always just said to me, if you go out there and you are your best, that's all you can ask of yourself.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what I say, that's what I will say to anyone who walks through my door, just come and be the best version of yourself in all areas of your life, not just in the sport, and that's what we work on, and that's how my coach was with me.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't just about being the best at judo, it was about being the best version of myself and um you know, showing up in all areas of my life um to be the best that I can be.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I would probably say to them, you know, make sure you've got something else, something else that you love doing, another passion.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm already there now, and I'm thinking about the guys that I'm like, I know that they'd love.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: To be a coach, maybe later I'm gonna get them on a coaching course at some point, you know, as they grade, they can then you know, and I'm already thinking ahead of how we can just make every person a rounded person and not just a one-dimensional person with one thing that they're good at in life.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: Nicole, I want to say thanks for just taking a bit of time out to share your journey, uh, how you've uh you know processed things and sort of some of the thoughts that you've had to go through to transition out of the game.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh look, there was so much more we could have covered about you and what you've gone through.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, we'll just clearly have to keep talking and um maybe get the next edition uh in three years' time and and do something like that.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you spoke earlier about how people who want to get in touch are follow your story.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um just run us through some of those contact details again.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Someone wants to reach out to you, get in touch.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my Instagram is probably where I'm most active.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's Nicoda Judo underscore 93.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, probably most active there.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: I share various parts of my life on there, mainly judo and sport, and obviously now coaching, but a lot about motherhood as well on there.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'll eventually link where we get our own club page and stuff, and I'll link it all there.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then directly for the club, we're based in Birmingham.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we're in King Standing, um, we're at the King Standing Leisure Centre.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if people are in the area, come by.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's a free free trial session, just come and have a try.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: We do all ages.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: I have a really budding adults class at the minute, and we've got you know four-year-olds on the map that haven't moved their body in years and are absolutely enjoying it and loving it.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, we're just building community, we're we're building friendship as well.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, really pushing that kind of positive mental health through exercise and stuff.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, that's the main places to find me.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Nicoda, thanks very much for bringing your journey to Evan on Second Wind.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks very much.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a pleasure.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Second Wind Podcast.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwind.io for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions, and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's all from me.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: Take it easy until next time.