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How to Have Hard Conversations With Your Children · #BeMoreLobster

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Poor communication destroys relationships.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when those relationships are in your own home, the effects can be devastating.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sharing something quite personal with you today because my experience of this is very real.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: In 2021, the relationship with my eldest daughter completely broke down, and I actually had to ask her to leave our home.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: She was always a highly sensitive child and probably potentially very much ADHD.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of volatility around her emotions.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she had a love of marijuana as she got a little bit older.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And all of those things just came to a crescendo, which actually left me avoiding my own home.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: If her car was outside, I wouldn't even go into my own house.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So in this episode today, I'm going to just share a little bit of that story with her permission.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm going to tell you where we are now.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to give you some tips on how to navigate difficult conversations with your young adults.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're ready, you're going to need a brew for this one.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Grab it, let's dive right in.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want to preface this by saying that whilst I'm talking specifically here about our relationships and our conversations with our young adults, our children, this framework that I'm going to teach you today is a framework that comes from a high performance coaching.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the Persuasion Formula.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it will transform every relationship you have if you use it.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: What makes it more difficult to use it in your own home is emotions.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's very difficult sometimes to distance ourselves when it's our partner or our children or something that we love, where we've got history and there's so you know this is the turbulent emotions and all of that can make it very difficult to be dissociated with that.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to talk about that just for a little bit.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let me just give you a very short version of the story.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I say, my daughter has always been a very sensitive child.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And looking back now, the way that me and my family navigated that may have been more harmful than helpful because we kept reinforcing it because we didn't know any better at the time.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: As she got older, she left school.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: She actually moved out of home and went to college when she was 16, and she lived in college.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and she's always been very courageous and very brave in that respect because she's always been the one leading.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So she went to secondary school and didn't know anybody, she went to college and didn't know anybody.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So she's she's very good at that, but she's also always been very volatile with a very short fuse.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought it was conditioning.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Her dad was or is a very um volatile person, and I thought it was just conditioning.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Anywho, let's go down to when she's sort of like 16 or 17, and she gets involved with a couple of people, and then marijuana comes on the scene.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um, in full confession, there were times in my younger years when I may have partook myself, uh, but when we could when we started smelling in our house all the time, she wasn't smoking in the house, but she was clearly storing it in the house.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: My husband is very, very anti-drugs, and we were saying to her, right, this is unacceptable.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it kept happening, it kept happening.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: There were other things that happened, and like I say, it got to the stage where there were so many times I came home and her car was there, and I thought, I just can't do it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can't be in this house with her.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like walking at Ed Shells, it's too hard.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't want to be in the same room as her.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there were compounding factors here because I was then not knowing at the time, I was then very much um on the at the start of perimenopause.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So my hormones were all over the place.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my dad was dying of cancer, and um we it was just a very, very challenging time.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I we so what had happened was the pair of us were meeting each other at us in a space of anger and frustration and uncertainty in our own lives, and we were bringing it together, and it was like fuel to the fire.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: There was also some triggers on my part because her behavior very much reminded me of her dad, and and that was a trigger that I hadn't dealt with very well.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we were bringing all these things to the boiling pot, and it was really a recipe for disaster.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: The it was the week before her 25th birthday, her 21st birthday on the 25th of March.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a week before that, and I remember coming home, and we'd had it had been one thing after another, like for the last few months, and I was at the end of the line, and me and my husband were thinking, we just don't know where to go with this relationship anymore.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everything we said was wrong, we couldn't help her in any way.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she kept starting jobs, quitting jobs, never had any money.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: She, you know, she went off and she left for a little bit and took the car, and all these kind of things went on.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure you recognize the stage as parents where you're like, I don't know what to do with this anymore.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, I thought I was bad as a new mum and I'd no idea what to do with this newborn, but now I had this fully grown child, and it was like dealing with something from another planet.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anywho, this particular day I'd come home and we'd gotten into another disagreement where I thought I was doing the right thing and I tried to meet, you know, to try to meet where she was at, but anyway, it didn't work.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I just saw red, and I can see it clear as day now.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: She was stood in the kitchen and she had a can open tuna in one hand and she had the can open in the other hand, and she basically just said to me, for about the tenth time in a very short period of time, oh my God, you're such an effing victim.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like this rage just came up from my toes and it burst out of my face and out of my mouth.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally just grabbed her and I threw the things out of her hands and I threw her onto the sofa.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I just let rip, vote, like verbally let rip, not physically, but verbally let rip.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: My throat was so sore afterwards, I can still remember having such a sore throat.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um that's that's as much as you need to know.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's enough, I think.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, anywho.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I at that point I said to her, right, you can't be here anymore.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have to go live with your dad.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just can't have you here.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that was that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: She did come visit for her 21st birthday because she shares her birthday with me and my twin sister, and it was a very brief visit, and that was okay.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess at the time, whilst I was hurting around all of it, I was more focused on my dad at the time.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we didn't know quite how bad he was, but it turned out he only had sort of about another six months to live.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there was other things competing with my interest, and I think I was just so depleted and so um just so lost with where to go with it that I just I guess maybe I just ignored it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we now, thank goodness, she's 25 now, and we have a much, much better relationship.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: She still struggles with her mental health, she still struggles with her volatility, but my child has really worked so hard on herself to raise an awareness, to try and amend some of the more challenging behaviors.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't smoke anymore.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, she's managed to keep some jobs and she's done development and she's just done incredibly, incredibly well.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what what I love most is that she rang me on Sunday and was like, Mum, have you got time to have a chat with me this week?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I've got stuff going on in my head and I need to sort it out.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, absolutely.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: That for me is the biggest gift that she can give because it tells me that we have reached a space where we can be mutually respective of each other and we can honour each other.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I hope that she now sort of sees me as somebody that she can look up to and have conversations with, and that is was all I ever wanted.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I share the depths of that conversation with you because I don't believe for one second that I'm alone.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there were times when I was like, oh my God, I'm a coach.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: How could I have this terrible relationship with my child?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: How can I be so bad at trying to sort it out?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't I help her?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: How have I let this get this far?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so much blame and judgment of myself.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't handle it the way I wanted it to, but I honestly believe I couldn't have handled it in a different way back then because I was dealing with my own stuff.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So any of you now that are beating yourself up, please stop.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: We do the best that we can with what we have at the time.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And my purpose of this episode is to give you something that you can practice that will help you manage your conversations, therefore, your relationships better.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing that I was that the first part of this framework that I really was not very good at is always meet the person where they are at.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: The foundation of these kind of relationships and this level of sort of persuasion and influence is in your ability to acknowledge them and to be able to really share how much you understand and appreciate what their reality is, not yours.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be able to acknowledge how they are struggling and what their challenges are, as well as recognizing their successes before you even start to think about asking them to change or do something that suits you.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And meeting someone where they're at when you are in a when you feel emotionally charged, when you feel challenged, when you feel unseen and unheard or hurt is incredibly freaking challenging.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when we talk about being a parent, it's so normal for us to become fully associated, meaning we're we're fully in the event, we are feeling all of the emotions, we are replaying all of the things that have come before it, we're feeling everything.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: But in order for us to meet them where they're at, we have to be able to take a step back.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: We must be able to for the for a moment, temporarily stop seeing through the eyes of a parent and see through the eyes of being a human being who is navigating a very harsh world.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where you're gonna want to be able to take a breath and to slow down your speech and to find ways to feel grounded in the moment rather than re-amplifying the emotion.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a time when you want to remember what it was like to be a teenager, a youngster.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also a time when you can ask yourself, well, actually, what happens when I have bad days right now?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know about you, but in what I am now calling middle essence instead of perimenopause, um, there are some seriously effed up days, right?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: There are days when you are gonna struggle emotionally, mentally, physically.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: How do you behave on your bad days?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you get help?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: How do you vent?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because our children are doing the same, only they have a lot less experience, they have a lot less wisdom, and they don't have the kind of a lot of us when we get to a certain age, I think we have we we gain a level of certainty in ourselves, and when we're younger, we just don't have that for the most part.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So this is really all about you being able to create the space where you can create distance, and your primary your primary job is to meet them where they're at and acknowledge them and gain an understanding, and you might have to ask some questions around that, right?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because maybe you don't know, maybe you've just been so busy seeing it from your point of view, you can't understand their point of view, and maybe they don't know their point of view.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So this is why this is this is you know, taking this time out is so important.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the next part is do not start telling them what you think is best or what would have happened in your day.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: How many of you have said that?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in my day, if it were my parents, I've totally done that myself.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not a good idea.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, it's a very, very bad idea.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Step number two is all about creating a vision for them.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: So this ambition, oh this sorry, this vision is we call it a stoking ambition for a better future.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's very simple in the fact that what we want to do is to find a way to describe to them how if they do things differently, there is a reward for them basically.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: It might bring them more meaning, it might, it might make them, it might make them feel happier, it might make them have more space in their brain, it might improve their relationships at school.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like what's in it for them personally?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But also, is there an extrinsic reward?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is there some recognition?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is there, do they, you know, is it well sorry, will they get more popularity at school?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Will they be appreciated more?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is it are they gonna win an award?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've got this in intrinsic and extrinsic um uh rewards that we can have.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this can be a little bit challenging, I'm not gonna lie, when you're we're talking to our children.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got to bring it down to their level, whatever kind of age they're at.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking young adults.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the problems with my daughter started really when she was about 16.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I totally did not speak to her like a 16-year-old, so I'm taking full responsibility for that.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: But we want to be able to let them see for themselves, let them understand and feel and make sense of a world that we're offering them if they change their behavior or if something changes or they take on something that we're saying.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's gonna be about just delivering some options for them.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know for my daughter, one of the things that she struggles with is that every option gets presented to her, and it's like they are, it's like they're living on her, you know, like an alien.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're like sucking the life out of her, and she can't see the space.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes our conversations are just about like picking off those aliens that are suffocating her, putting them like 200 meters away so that she's got a space to breathe, and then we go through the options so that she feels calmer and more grounded.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's all she needs, and she struggles to do that for herself.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: You might want to think about like, you know, what is it if is it advice that they want, but they just don't know how to ask for that advice, and so they kind of kick back at a different way.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're thinking about delivering this vision, this isn't just about what you want, they have to be on board, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember when your kids were really, really small and they got to the age where they realized that going to bed wasn't that much fun?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe you started to say, but if you come to bed, like we can have a nice little story, we can have a hot milk and maybe a cookie in bed, and mummy's gonna lay down with you, like, and they're like, Yeah, yeah, that sounds so much better than you plonking me into bed and you coming back downstairs to watch TV.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that, and I can say this works in every conversation you want to have.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to be able to stoke their ambition or create a different vision for them or more options for them where they can see it's of benefit to them and they just don't feel like it's a parent telling them what's best because it doesn't usually land very well.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: The third part of this formula is delivering it with effect.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: This does not mean yelling loudly or stomping around the house or saying this is just the way it's gonna be.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I know from experience that that does not work, nor does throwing things.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Delivering with effect means utilizing your voice effectively, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Don't sound sarcastic by slowing everything down and going, do you understand what I'm saying?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know anybody that responds well to sarcasm.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's about being able, this is we call this matching and mirroring in NLP, and I don't want to go into too much detail here, but you know, if they're when you slow down your voice and you soften it, you invite them to do the same.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you match their volatility, that's not gonna work, right?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're just adding fuel to the fire.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So utilize your tone, think about your pace.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're thinking about now, oh my god, this is complicated, it is, but it's far less painful than losing the relationship with your child.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a practice.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is why people don't have great relationships often the time, because we've never been taught this.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the other thing we can do is we can share stories so we can use metaphors.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to my daughter yesterday when we had this chat, and I was saying, and I was talking about how we can reinforce beliefs that don't serve us.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I said it's like when you're going on the motorway, because she does a lot of driving, when you're going on the motorway and where the really heavy lorries have gone over and over the same place, and they leave like these their tires leave a dent in the in the tarmac.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And how easy it is for us to fall into that dent, but it's a lot harder to get out because it makes our car wobble, so it's safer to stay in the dent and just follow the the tracks of the of the truck, but then we stay stuck and we can't get out, right?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also know from experience that sometimes stories don't work because when I used to try and meet my daughter with that and say, yeah, but I remember when this happened and that happened and I did that, and that was a real trigger for her.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: It might not be a trigger for your young person.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter, for whatever reason, just didn't appreciate that.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think she didn't want to be like me.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole other story.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't want to be like me, she didn't want to have that association.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, and it it's only taken me looking back, actually saying this to you now on this recording.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I've just had a realization.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: For whatever reason, she so desperately didn't want to be like me that she didn't want to take on my stories.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that interesting?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so but you some some of your children will resonate if you share stories, if you share metaphors and analogies and things like that.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they can see it from a different perspective.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And like I say, matching and mirroring.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if they are, you know, if they're if they're bobbing their legs or they're tapping their feet, you could do the same, but you could do it much slower.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can, if they are, you know, leaning in on their hands, you could do the same thing, but do it subtly.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's not essential, but your vo your tone of voice, the emotion that you deliver it with, and your ability to remain calm and powerful is is so a such a big part of the efficacy of your conversation.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: So there's the three steps again, it's acknowledging them where they're at first, their challenges, their situation, their reality, their struggles, and and sharing in in explicitly, like how you understand their appre and appreciate their reality.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, then you need to ask them and get a bit more clarity on that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: The second step is stoking that ambition for a different future, different options, that kind of stuff that benefits them with reward in some capacity, and then delivering that with affect, with emotion, with tonality, with compassion.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a few things that I want to just offer that will make this even more uh effective for you.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is spend some time curating ahead of time.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is something I never did, but think about them, not you.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Think about them ahead of time.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Think about how you want the conversation to go.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe even practice it.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you have some questions that you want to ask or some things that you want to say and practice it.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Please, for the love of God, set the intention and the energy of collaboration and not that you're going to war.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not helpful.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: See if you can find out if they want some advice or if they're looking for generating options, or maybe they just feel that they want to have some safety with these cray cray emotions that are going on, these thoughts that are going on in their head.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know for me, perimenopause has often made me feel like I'm absolutely losing my mind.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I might rant at my husband, but thankfully, because we use these conversations, because we use this conversation and we use this formula, he'll know that sometimes I'm just venting because I'm I'm frustrated or I'm angry or actually I don't even know what's going on.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he knows how to respond and not react.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Please breathe and create space before you start the conversation and through the conversation, and not like this.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Try and take your deep breath in a way that your young adult doesn't think, oh my god, she's had enough, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to trigger them.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Please do your best not to raise your voice.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's hard, and this is something that I still really have to manage.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And by God, do not be triggered by the eye rolling.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I still get the eye rolling.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: It still makes my blood boil.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I have learned, I might breathe a little bit too loudly, but I have learned not to respond.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Fundamentally, I think what's at the bottom of this conversation I'm having you with you today is that when we when we extend compassion for somebody else's model of the world that you will never have a personal experience of because you are not them and you never will be them, we can extend greater awareness and we can become different people because of that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing I want to say is this does not mean that your young adult gets to be an ass.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I when we asked my daughter to move out, whilst it was the hardest thing I've ever done, at that point in time, it was the only thing that I could do.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have let a friend or another family member speak to me or treat me in that way.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, that's the only option that I had.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this isn't about letting them, you know, sort of um overstep boundaries.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about letting them rule the ruse.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've still got rules, we've still got parental things that are important to us.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, but this is just about how do we have more meaningful, more effective communication.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the other side of that is I have totally not nailed this completely yet.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a practice, it really is a practice.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that you can take something from that.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Even if for some of you it's like I can't go there yet, but I'm just glad that somebody else is having this experience because it is heartbreaking as a mother when your communication with your children breaks down and you struggle to find a way back.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there is a way back.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: There really, really is a way back.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you love this episode, please do just take 60 seconds to pop over to Apple and leave me a review.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: It would mean so much to me.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, please do share it on social media with your other mamas who might need this help too.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: As always, you're invited to come join me in the Seeking Simplicity uh Facebook group and join our free book club, which is basically like a girls' night every Wednesday at 7 p.m.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: where we just chew the card and have great conversations and connect.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I will speak to you in the next episode of the Seeking Simplicity podcast.