Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / Small Steps, Hard Days, and Asking for Help | Episode 11 (Midweek Q&A)
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar: Have you ever had a question you were almost afraid to ask? Not because it was bad question, but because you wondered if you were the only one thinking it. That's exactly why we're starting to do these midweek Q &A episodes, because sometimes one person is brave enough to ask the question, but a whole lot of people need the answer. Welcome back to Rebuild and Fulfill. I'm Kelsey Dunbar, co-founder of Suffer to Tougher. Marc Rogala: And I'm Marc Rogala Kelsey Dunbar: And this is our first midweek Q &A episode. The idea behind these is pretty simple. Throughout the week, Marc and I are having conversations with people in different places. Sometimes Marc is speaking at a facility. Sometimes I'm coaching someone or messaging with someone or hearing from someone who watched or listened to an episode and had a follow-up question. And every once in a while, a question comes up that we know other people are probably wondering too. They may not feel comfortable asking it. So these episodes are going to be shorter, more direct and built around real life questions. We'll keep them anonymous, but if the question can help someone else, we want to talk about it. Today, we're going to start with three questions. So the first question that came in that I want to talk about is, what if I know what I need to do, but I still don't do it? The first question is one we hear all the time. ⁓ And I think this one hits a lot of people because most people don't have an information problem. They know they should move more. They know they should eat more. They know they should communicate sooner. They know they should stop avoiding the thing that keeps creating stress. But knowing isn't the same as doing. And that's where people start beating themselves up. They think, what's wrong with me? Why can't I just do what I know I need to do? But most of the time, the issue isn't that they don't know. It's that the step feels too big or too emotional or too uncomfortable or too disconnected from who they believe they are. That's why we talk so much about structure, because when you rely only on motivation, you're going to be inconsistent. Motivation is emotional. Structure is repeatable. So if you know what to do, but you're not doing it, I would simply ask, what's the smallest version of that action? Not the perfect version, but the smallest version, that next right step. If you know you need to exercise, maybe it's not a full workout day. Maybe it's just a 10 minute walk. We use that example a lot. If you know you need to eat better, Maybe it's adding protein to one meal. Maybe it's just not eating as much of the potatoes or the pasta or the rice, ⁓ something like that, or stopping, two or three bites away from finishing your plate, that type of thing. If you know you need to have a conversation, but you know, you feel uncomfortable, maybe it's not like a full conversation where you want to get into everything. Maybe it's just ⁓ sending text message and starting some dialogue. So ⁓ those just some examples, but Marc, when someone knows they need to do, but they keep avoiding it, what do you usually see underneath that? Marc Rogala: Well, I mean, usually they're still dealing with shame. They're still dealing with guilt. And ⁓ maybe they're doing some soul searching and they're looking at, you know, what changes need to be made. And it's the fear of the unknown and the fear of the fact that there might need to be a major overhaul. And, you know, when you're told that you got to make a lot of changes in your life. your brain tends to make it look like it's all scary and daunting and it's almost impossible to make those changes. ⁓ But the truth is, is we're not trying to make all those changes and make that overhaul at once. know, I mean, the biggest thing is just take, you know, one little area that you can make a change at, run with that for a bit and just build on it. ⁓ But your brain looks at the totality of things, okay, as opposed to breaking it down into increments. I mean, that's what it was for me. That's what it was for a lot of the people that I work with out in the community. You know, it's just a fear of change. You know, we like comfort. You know, we like going back to ways that we feel comfortable in. Change takes us out of that comfort zone, but your greatest opportunity to grow is going to be with that change. It's going to make you a more sound human being when it comes to your mental health. It might help you get sober if you're dealing with some alcohol and substances. But it's scary, man. mean, that's really what it comes down to. It's scary. And you don't know where to begin a lot of times because you know that you got to make all these changes like, OK, where do I start? You now with some guidance and some proper coaching. Now you know where to start. One area, one thing and maybe a couple different areas and then build on that over period of time. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I mean, that's why we always come back to this simple idea. The next step has to be small enough that you'll actually take it. Right? Pretty simple. So because the goal isn't to prove how tough you are, the goal is to build trust with yourself again. And you do that by keeping small promises to yourself. And I just want to mention that this question is actually going to go into a, much kind of deeper dive and our full podcast that's going to be coming up ⁓ weekend is going to be about this very same thing. So it's going to really take a deep dive into this question. question two, how do I support someone who is struggling without trying to fix them? So the second question came from someone who had listened to one of our podcasts and said, they want to help, but they're, they're not sure how to help someone without it seeming like. they're trying to big brother them too much or say like, I've got all the answers or, you know, but like, how do you start having that conversation? Right? So, that's a really good question because when care about someone, your instinct is to fix. Ok, you want to say the right thing. You want to help them solve the problem. You want to maybe give some advice, ⁓ but sometimes don't need a solution first. They need that safety first. They need to feel like they can say what's really going on, but without being judged or corrected or, you know, even like rushed to try to figure out how to solve the problem. Right now they're, just comfortable enough to start talking about it. Okay. Which is good. But one of the biggest mistakes we make when supporting someone is trying to move too quickly into advice mode. You know, we might say things like, well, you just need to. Right. Or, have you tried? Okay. Or, well, at least it's not, right? Okay. That's how we start a lot of those types of sentences, right? And even if we mean well, that can make somebody shut down. It almost kind of sounds like judgment or like, why haven't you tried this or whatever. A better place to start is, man, I am so glad you told me. Or, That sounds really heavy. You know, or, you know, I don't have a fix for this right now, I'm here with you. Those kinds of responses create room. Once someone feels safe, then you can ask, do you want advice or my thoughts or do you just want me to listen for now? I don't want to overstep. That question alone can change the whole conversation. So Marc, someone's trying to support another person, where do you see people accidentally get it wrong? Marc Rogala: Well, here's interesting, okay? That first question, what if I know what I need to do, but I still don't do it? Yeah, I hear that from individuals that are struggling. But the truth is, I hear that more from family members. They know what they need to do, but they just don't do it. They don't want it bad enough. They don't want to get out of the rut. They don't want to get sober, whatever it might be. And the issue with that, okay, is if you're the relative and you're using that particular verbiage, You're talking to somebody that already has a lot of shame, a lot of guilt, a lot of self-worth issues, right? And talking to them like that is just going to make them feel smaller. So the biggest thing from a relative's perspective or a family perspective is to listen, to listen and not give advice. You you can support by asking them, okay, well, what's one thing that you can do to drive your recovery? or what's two things that you can do to drive your recovery, maybe one from a mindset perspective and two, maybe go into support groups or maybe making a dietary change. And you can ask them if it's okay if we hold you accountable for that and let them give that answer. But if you're gonna come down on them and be like, well, you need to do this, you need to do that, you don't want that, they're gonna run. and they're probably going to get more into crisis. And if they're dealing with some type of drug of choice, they're probably going to get more active in their addictions. I mean, I'm just keeping it real there. I mean, that's just how it is. The individual that's struggling is looking for safety. They're looking for validation. They're looking for a safe zone or safe place. They're looking for somebody that they can trust, that they can share their feelings with. They don't want advice. You know, let them give their goals let them say it's okay if I can , I or somebody who can hold them accountable. But it's all about their recovery plan. That's the biggest thing. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I mean, as a, as a fitness coach, would say some of most common questions that I use in situations where people come to me and I want to ask the question, what have you tried? What's worked? What hasn't worked? So that way they're actually right from the jump, a part of the solution, a part of trying to figure out where they want to go. So it seems like they're almost giving the advice to themselves rather than. they're waiting for me to give the advice or they're afraid that I'm going to tell them everything that they're doing wrong or something like that. And it's allowing them to say, well, I mean, I did this in the past and it worked, but it stopped working because, okay, cool. Then we can take some of the things that they did that worked and try and be proactive to work with the things that worked without falling into the pitfall that eventually made it not work so much. All right. So, you know, Supporting someone doesn't mean that you have to carry everything for them and it doesn't mean you have to become their therapist. It just means that you become someone that they can be honest with. Sometimes the best support is not the perfect answer. It's just a steady presence. So, yeah. Marc Rogala: Yeah, and Kelsey, just so you know, like those questions right there that you just gave are perfect, because it's about them. I mean, you're not telling them what they need to do. You're not giving them advice saying you should try this. You know, you're asking an honest question and hopefully they're going to give you an honest response. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, and then it seems more conversational and not so much like you're trying to take over their problems, make them yours, make it about you, make it about what you think or what you feel or what you advise them on. It literally is all about them. That's perfectly said. So. Marc Rogala: it's not. or people are judging them. I think that's the reason why people keep their secrets as long as they keep their secrets, because they're afraid of judgment, whether it's from a friend or a relative or a colleague at work, whatever it might be. They just need that safe zone, and they just want to be heard. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. Yeah, one of the greatest things, you know, and we talked about it, you know, a little earlier is that you can tell someone is like, man, I'm so sorry to hear that you're going through that. You start with that. I think you're going to be on easy street when it comes to trying to support someone, because all of a sudden that whole judgment thing and that shame and that guilt. mean, I don't want to say it completely goes away, but man, does it help. When someone just says, I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. It's almost like it addresses all of those situations in one statement. So I generally like to start there and just say, you know, that, that sounds really tough. I'm, sorry to hear that. You know, is there anything I can do or, know, you want to tell me more about that? Those follow-up questions get so much easier when you start with that. So anyway, so let's go ahead and dive into question number three. how I know I need help instead of just trying harder to just work through it or, you know, get around it, that sort of thing. So that I know Marc and I get all the time. And it's something a lot of people wrestle with quietly. so I love question ⁓ because we definitely live in a that celebrates pushing through. Like ⁓ I can just get through this, know, if I can. just move forward. I don't have to worry about it. I'll just get past it. Right. So I'm going to just going to try harder. I'm going to do more. I'm going to just, you know, especially the whole macho guy, I'm just going to be tougher. Um, but sometimes trying harder really isn't the answer. Sometimes trying harder with the same broken system just keeps you stuck longer or it just comes back or it becomes a pattern. You know, when we talk about patterns to just keep doing that with the next thing and the next thing. So here are a few signs that it might be time to ask for help. If the same pattern keeps repeating, as I just talked about, if you keep starting over but never building consistency, if you feel like you understand the problem but you can't seem to change the behavior. So if your emotions are always affecting your relationships, your health, your work, or your ability to function, or if you're isolating more, or you're consistently overwhelmed and you keep saying, I should be able to figure this out, ⁓ but, changing. That doesn't mean you're weak. Okay. We don't like that word. Okay. Well, ⁓ we it a lot. ⁓ You're weak. Okay. It just means that the current system that you're trying to use isn't working. ⁓ And where support matters. Right. So sometimes you don't need more willpower, you need a better structure, or you need accountability. You need someone who can help you see the pattern while you're still inside of it. So Marc, when do you think someone should stop trying to just muscle their way through it alone and actually start asking for help? Marc Rogala: Well, I mean, that's a loaded question right there. I mean, obviously in general, people should be asking for help sooner. We've talked about this before. mean, the timeframe from when somebody first exhibits a symptom to the time people actually ask for help. And I learned this at the beginning of mental health awareness month is 12 years. And that's just a scary stat to me. But really it's, you know, when you start seeing the same repeated patterns, you know, you start to isolate from friends and family. You're dealing with shame and guilt. You're dealing with some consequences. You know, there's some chaos in your life. You know, you're relying on alcohol, substances, gambling, or what have you. And there's also some consequences associated with that, you know, where you just can't get by without, you know, going a couple of days without drinking or gambling or whatever it might be. You're having a problem being honest with somebody, know, your spouse, your parent, whatever it might be, or you're keeping a lot of secrets on the inside. There's no outrunning this. You can't do this by yourself. And they say that a lot of this disease is ego-driven because we do have that mentality that if we just work harder or push through, can get through anything, right? ⁓ I've seen people try doing that and eventually, and I was one of them, you know, perfectly honest, I was one of them. And it just gets to the point where like, literally you just throw your arms up in the air and be like, okay, this is enough, enough. You know, I need help. need support. I need somebody to help me create the structure. And I'm willing to do anything and listen and be very coachable. because I can't keep living like this because if I keep living like this, you know, I might end up dead. You know, but the problem is, is, know, because of that ego, years go by and the addictions get worse. The depression gets worse. The anxiety gets worse. The flashbacks get worse if you're dealing with, with PTSD. And now, know, by not asking for help sooner, ⁓ hole you kind of dug yourself into. is a lot deeper and now it's going to take even more work to get out of it. And that in itself kind of, excuse the language, fucks with your brain a little bit. You know, going back to that first question, it's scary and it's daunting because there needs to be major overhaul. That's why you just have to break it down into increments, make one small change, have accountability through somebody, you know, like, like us, you know, coach like us. and just build on that change. You don't have it become a habit to have it becomes a lifestyle and you know sooner and then add more changes into the mix. And before you know it, you wake up a couple years into it and your lifestyle is completely changing. You don't think that you're doing anything special because that's what's now been ingrained in your head is this is how I'm supposed to live my life. but it just doesn't happen overnight and most people can't find it on themselves. I really don't know anybody that's found it on themselves. To be perfectly honest with you, I don't even know what the numbers are as far as how many people I've met at hospitals or NAMI events or AA meetings, you know, or... the crisis center, you know, it's just, it's, it's, I see it over and over and over and over and over again. And I think that's the reason why we're doing this stuff is to provide this awareness so that way people have those conversations and people seek out to meet those changes sooner. So they don't have to hit quote unquote rock bottom because you don't have to hit rock bottom to get, to, get sober and get your mental health and check. People hit rock bottom because they're doing exactly what we just said in this question. They're trying to push through, they're trying to work harder, they're trying to figure it out on themselves. That's why people hit rock bottom. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I mean, it's funny anytime now when I hear you use the words rock bottom. mean, obviously the name of our book suffered a tougher from rock bottom to real strength. So, uh, sorry, a little self plug there. Um, what, what, what isn't a self plug though is the fact that I don't want to give people the idea that you have to have a coach. You have to have a therapist when we're talking about getting support and getting structure. Marc Rogala: Thank Kelsey Dunbar: mean, that could be a f be a teacher, that could that could be just, kn or a family member that y anything wrong with coache because we work with the time and you don't have t and judgment and guilt wh a coach because we hear And we've worked with people and helped them that have gone through it all. So I just want to make that point where I'm not necessarily saying you have to have professional help. We're very passionate about what we do and we love to help people. But we do want to encourage you that if you don't think that you're ready for that, then just find that really supportive person that you can trust in and that you feel good about telling stuff to and. unloading that stuff and not trying to just power through. So I want to make that distinction. ⁓ but you know, this is, people need to hear ⁓ in this And that's just that asking for help is not the opposite of strength. It shows strength ⁓ to be ⁓ And, know, it's the first strong decision someone has made in a long time. And that's really important. So, we really want to continue helping people to stop starting over. Okay. ⁓ As talk about all the time, you know, doing a reset rather than a start over because start over feels like failure. So I like to drive that point home too. ⁓ We just want to help people build structure and help people move forward without that shame and guilt. ⁓ So think that that's, that's ⁓ a lot for three questions, right? So I think, We're gonna kind of end it there tonight. so, you know, if you want to ask yourself, what if I know what to do, but I still don't do it? Or how do I support someone without trying to fix them? Or how do I know when I need help instead of just trying harder? If any of those questions hit home for you, there's probably a reason. And if you have a question and you want an answer to it, Definitely send it to us. ⁓ It will probably make it into a future midweek &A episode. ⁓ I like that we're doing this. It gives us a chance to really ⁓ use questions to help so many people. ⁓ And so we're really excited these midweek episodes. ⁓ And as I said before, we'll definitely keep it ⁓ But if it can help someone else, You know, we definitely want to use it. and if you're listening and thinking, I'm tired of trying to figure this out by myself, reach out to us at Suffer2Tougher, ⁓ Nation, suffer2tougher.org or an email at ⁓ at Gmail. ⁓ this is the kind of work we do. ⁓ help people walk through these issues, ⁓ know, not with shame, not with pressure, but with structure, support, compassion, and a way forward. And as always, you're not broken. You may just be overloaded, but you don't have to stay stuck and you don't have to be alone.