Latest / The Third Thing / S2E20: Weddings Make People Weird - Navigating Traditions, Money, & Drama

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S2E20: Weddings Make People Weird - Navigating Traditions, Money, & Drama · The Third Thing

• 0:00
  Danyelle: Welcome to the Third Thing, a podcast about friendship in all its fullness.
• 0:04
  Danyelle: The conflict worth repairing, the evolution worth honoring, and sometimes the letting go.
• 0:10
  Michelle: Think of it as a kitchen table conversation with honesty, laughter, validation, and plenty of tea.
• 0:17
  Danyelle: I'm Danielle, a therapist, healer, and Hudo practitioner who's been thinking about the way we love each other for most of my life.
• 0:25
  Michelle: And I'm Michelle, a life coach, facilitator, and a spaceholder at my core.
• 0:30
  Michelle: I've spent a lifetime helping people communicate better and more honestly.
• 0:34
  Danyelle: We've been best friends for 26 years and we've got the first.
• 0:39
  Danyelle: We've done the work and we want to share what we've learned.
• 0:41
  Danyelle: The tools, the hard parts, the things nobody taught us.
• 0:45
  Michelle: There are a lot of people figuring out their friendships without a roadmap.
• 0:48
  Michelle: So we're pulling up a chair.
• 0:50
  Michelle: Hi Dee.
• 0:52
  Michelle: Welcome back.
• 0:53
  Michelle: How are you?
• 0:54
  Michelle: I'm excited to get into.
• 0:57
  Michelle: I mean, the topics are never light per se with us, but I'm excited to get into kind of the cultural moment of weddings today.
• 1:09
  Michelle: Yeah, how are you?
• 1:10
  Michelle: I'm doing really well.
• 1:12
  Danyelle: Um I'm excited for this topic.
• 1:17
  Danyelle: It's a layered one.
• 1:19
  Danyelle: Yeah, it is.
• 1:19
  Danyelle: And you're right.
• 1:20
  Danyelle: It's uh it's lighter in the sense of I think we'll laugh more.
• 1:25
  Danyelle: Sure.
• 1:27
  Danyelle: Um share some antidotes that might feel a little less emotionally charred.
• 1:33
  Danyelle: Sure.
• 1:33
  Danyelle: However, weddings like most life events make people weird.
• 1:42
  Michelle: That's real.
• 1:43
  Michelle: There's so many dynamics at play from money to time to family to expectations, especially when you think about as life moments go, you've got your birthdays, you've got your graduations, you've got your funerals, and weddings are like one of the big momentous life stages.
• 2:07
  Michelle: Not only that you get to plan if you choose to get married in a more public way or in a party kind of way, but as someone who is showing up as a guest or a bridesmaid.
• 2:23
  Michelle: Or a part of the wedding party, I guess I should say.
• 2:27
  Danyelle: So many, so yeah, like so many different roles that can be played, or so many different um, yeah.
• 2:38
  Danyelle: To me, it's it's like these roles that you maybe labels.
• 2:43
  Danyelle: So I'm I'm excited.
• 2:45
  Michelle: Okay, well, I'm just gonna come out and say it and you know, feel free to disagree.
• 2:51
  Michelle: But weddings are drama.
• 2:52
  Danyelle: There's so much drama.
• 2:54
  Michelle: And again, I know we try to be like really inclusive in our language and allow for things not to live in a binary, but I'm also gonna go ahead and say when you get large gaggles of women together, it's drama.
• 3:08
  Michelle: You know, I'm not saying there can't be drama with men or you know, with mixed folks, but like specifically when the when the gals get together.
• 3:16
  Michelle: It can be a lot, yeah.
• 3:18
  Danyelle: Yeah, I think what you're speaking to as well is this layer of yeah, you're speaking to are you struggling with what I said?
• 3:32
  Danyelle: No, no, but I wanted to bring the layer in of queerness.
• 3:35
  Danyelle: Sure.
• 3:36
  Danyelle: Like maybe it wouldn't have been as much drama if it wasn't this like love is a pie.
• 3:44
  Danyelle: Anyways.
• 3:45
  Michelle: Well, let's go ahead and kick it right off with what roles have what meaningful roles have you played in weddings with friends?
• 3:55
  Michelle: And do you have a story to share of what came up?
• 3:58
  Michelle: Because it can run the gamut.
• 4:01
  Danyelle: Oh, yeah.
• 4:02
  Danyelle: Yeah, there were seven weddings.
• 4:05
  Danyelle: Okay.
• 4:06
  Danyelle: Seven that year.
• 4:08
  Danyelle: Um starting, I want to say maybe May, all the way to November.
• 4:15
  Danyelle: Um, everybody.
• 4:19
  Danyelle: And yeah, I played a lot of different roles.
• 4:22
  Danyelle: Um, my brother and his wife got married.
• 4:25
  Danyelle: Um, I walked him down the aisle, which was really that suits.
• 4:29
  Danyelle: It was good.
• 4:30
  Danyelle: It was good.
• 4:31
  Danyelle: We'll we'll we'll put it in the show notes.
• 4:33
  Michelle: Yeah, because it's fun.
• 4:34
  Michelle: Wine a moment for the suit.
• 4:36
  Michelle: That was a really quick pause, must be said.
• 4:39
  Michelle: We went shopping for something to wear, and it was the Cinderella moment of all Cinderella moments.
• 4:47
  Michelle: Like it fit you perfectly, it was the right color, it hugged all the curves.
• 4:52
  Michelle: It was like one and done.
• 4:54
  Michelle: Shout out to Sophie, who has that suit now who rocks it.
• 4:59
  Michelle: Nice.
• 4:59
  Michelle: I love that.
• 5:00
  Michelle: Yes, yeah, but that was such a Cinderella moment of like the sun was shining on us.
• 5:07
  Michelle: Because when do you ever go into one store and find what you're looking for?
• 5:10
  Michelle: First store, and that it fits you perfect.
• 5:13
  Michelle: I didn't have anything I needed to change.
• 5:15
  Michelle: Yeah, anyway, I had to say that because that was a real special moment.
• 5:19
  Michelle: All right, brother got married, yeah.
• 5:21
  Danyelle: And then there was a few other weddings that I was just a guest.
• 5:24
  Danyelle: I just could like go and show up, which was very sweet and very lovely.
• 5:29
  Danyelle: We love an open bar.
• 5:30
  unknown: Love an open bar.
• 5:31
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 5:32
  Michelle: I know I was very drunk.
• 5:33
  Michelle: I love a canopy, I love a past item.
• 5:39
  Danyelle: The roles that I played.
• 5:41
  Danyelle: Um, I was then at a bridesmaid in your wedding.
• 5:45
  Danyelle: I played like a um a strong bridesmaid.
• 5:50
  Danyelle: I don't know.
• 5:51
  Michelle: It was a strong supporting role, yes.
• 5:53
  Danyelle: Brides bridesmaid with with bowl.
• 5:56
  Michelle: Well, you're like family, and my baby sisters were there to help run things, but also like need support because they're younger, and um as we'll get into it, weddings have a lot of traditions that require some like easing into you sort of learn over time what the expectations are of a role of maid of honor bridesmaid.
• 6:22
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 6:23
  Danyelle: And most recently, I was the maid of honor for Sarah, my good friend Sarah.
• 6:29
  Danyelle: And yeah, so like I feel like weddings have been around, like, you know, people be getting married and doing the thing.
• 6:37
  Danyelle: I'm not married, just in case anyone didn't know.
• 6:40
  Danyelle: Um, I'm the last one standing.
• 6:43
  Michelle: Okay, but actually quickly, how does that feel?
• 6:46
  Michelle: Like, how does that play a role for you in both as a guest, as a person in the wedding party?
• 6:54
  Michelle: Complicated.
• 6:55
  Danyelle: Yeah, it feels very complicated.
• 6:57
  Danyelle: Um, it's also been like eight years now.
• 7:01
  Danyelle: So there are these layers of like maybe it just won't ever happen.
• 7:07
  Michelle: Um or like, thank God that's not me.
• 7:11
  Danyelle: I mean, you know, it depends on the day, it depends on the couple.
• 7:14
  Michelle: Sure.
• 7:15
  Danyelle: Um, but yeah, I I think it is.
• 7:17
  Danyelle: I think it's maybe neutral at this point, you know.
• 7:21
  Danyelle: Like I was always in a relationship and probably thought I would be the first one to get married.
• 7:28
  Danyelle: Um, and you know, 20 years later.
• 7:32
  Michelle: I was gonna say same.
• 7:33
  Michelle: Like you and I were friends for 10 years before I ever dated anyone.
• 7:38
  Danyelle: So yeah, so yeah, yeah, neutral at this point.
• 7:42
  Danyelle: Okay, that's fair.
• 7:43
  Danyelle: Okay, so the story I want to share is actually about Sarah's wedding.
• 7:48
  Danyelle: And I love Sarah so much because she is just very like, yeah, it's all good.
• 7:57
  Danyelle: And I remember arriving, she got married in Moab, Utah.
• 8:03
  Danyelle: And so, like, yeah, I think the drive was like three hours from Salt Lake City, and I remember talking to her, and she's like, Okay, when you get to this place, it's like the last place with things, you know, like an Ulta.
• 8:16
  Danyelle: So it like stopped and like, you know, was like, I'll get some setting spray, some boob tape, like the last minute items one might need.
• 8:26
  Danyelle: Yes, on your wedding day.
• 8:28
  Danyelle: The welcome party was the evening before, and it was at this like really beautiful outdoor venue, and her now husband's sister and I were the ones who arrived first, and the place was oh so not ready.
• 8:50
  Danyelle: You know, dirt on the cushions and like cobwebs, and I remember just being like, Oh no, I feel very stressed.
• 9:01
  Danyelle: And Sarah's like, it's totally fine.
• 9:03
  Danyelle: Like, I I did a walkthrough, it's fine.
• 9:06
  Danyelle: And I was like, This is not fine.
• 9:09
  Danyelle: And you know, when my voice goes really high, it's it's very bad.
• 9:14
  Danyelle: But shout out to Kelsey, her husband's sister, who really just I wonder what her sign is.
• 9:25
  Danyelle: Yeah, um, like really like kicked it into gear and was like, you do this, and we're like sending people to like the general store.
• 9:35
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 9:36
  Danyelle: And we're like, just get whatever.
• 9:38
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 9:38
  Danyelle: And I just remember being like from my perspective, if I had walked in and that was the state as the bride of just like how it would have made me feel inside and really wanting to like make it better for Sarah.
• 9:56
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 9:57
  Danyelle: And she was just like, just happy you're here.
• 10:00
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 10:01
  Danyelle: You know, and so like the thing about weddings, as I said, is it does make people weird.
• 10:07
  Danyelle: And it was my stuff that was coming up around like the venue not being nice enough.
• 10:14
  Danyelle: Um, and she would, you know, she like came a couple hours later and was just like, do to do.
• 10:20
  Danyelle: Yeah, like, oh yay, okay, yeah, it's all good.
• 10:23
  Danyelle: And it was yeah, it was a beautiful time when I'm over here running around like a wild chicken.
• 10:31
  Michelle: Like, clean this and move this, and who can we call?
• 10:35
  Michelle: Before you continue with the story, I feel like part of what you're naming here though is a being a good friend, you want to make things nice for your friend.
• 10:44
  Michelle: You're thinking about what you would want in that position.
• 10:46
  Michelle: But also when you are named maid of honor, it is many of us consider it to be a job.
• 10:52
  Michelle: Like, I have a role to play, I'm your eyes when you can't be there.
• 10:56
  Michelle: Because when you are the center of the celebration, ideally, at least the way that I look at a wedding or a big party that you're hosting, you want to take care of people.
• 11:06
  Michelle: You want them to feel welcome, you want them to feel greeted.
• 11:09
  Michelle: And it's a lot to put on a couple or on one person.
• 11:13
  Michelle: And so you're sort of, you know, yes, it's a I don't want to say a referendum on friendship.
• 11:21
  Michelle: You like sometimes you do feel like ranked in the process, but you are saying you're someone who's close to me, that I want close to me on the day, that I trust to be my eyes and ears out there.
• 11:30
  Michelle: But yeah, to think about what I might like or what might feel good and just to help me get this thing over the line.
• 11:36
  Michelle: Because I can't help but think of like the Bridgerton times of hosting these big parties and galas where you have all of what you need at your house and you have a team of people executing, and most of us don't have that.
• 11:51
  Michelle: And so our bridesmaids and maid of honors or wedding party in general end up like picking up the slack there.
• 11:57
  Danyelle: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:58
  Danyelle: I mean, exactly that.
• 12:00
  Danyelle: And you know, in this case, in the middle of nowhere, yeah, where there, you know, it's a it's like people do outdoorsy things.
• 12:07
  Danyelle: It there's not, you know.
• 12:09
  Danyelle: Yeah, but we're all in like gowns.
• 12:11
  Danyelle: Yes, yeah.
• 12:12
  Danyelle: Um, so yeah, that's when prepping for this, I was like, oh yeah, this felt like a moment of am I doing it wrong as a friend?
• 12:21
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 12:22
  Danyelle: Am I am I missing something as the mane of honor?
• 12:25
  Danyelle: I want it to be good for her.
• 12:27
  Danyelle: Yeah, of course.
• 12:28
  Michelle: And I was like, this is not good.
• 12:30
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 12:31
  Michelle: Well, and like when it comes to weddings, you might think like, okay, there's gonna be a bachelorette party, there's gonna be a wedding, I maybe I have to give a speech, there'll be a dress.
• 12:40
  Michelle: But what you don't necessarily think about, especially like starting with Pinterest, and now all the way through to like there people are creating reels on their wedding day, like there are these layers of like, and we have matching robes and there's gift bags, and now we're traveling for multiple days, and it's not just the speech, it's like you're coming up with special games to play.
• 13:02
  Michelle: And I do think that it's a big ask not only of your time, of your finances, or it can be, but then also you're like wanting to show that you're doing it right and how much you care through this process.
• 13:19
  Michelle: And that's I think where the drama comes in.
• 13:21
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 13:22
  Danyelle: Well, and as you were speaking, I was just thinking about this idea of when you're invited to be in a wedding, you do kind of think like it's very exciting, it's such an honor, and it's such a beautiful way to express your love for your friend and your friend to say, like, I want you standing next to me.
• 13:47
  Danyelle: And like it does come with so many different uh ways.
• 13:56
  Danyelle: There are just so many things that need to happen.
• 13:59
  Danyelle: It comes with the layers of, like you said, the dress, the the traveling, but also the mixing of friends, the mixing of people who love you.
• 14:09
  Danyelle: For your wedding, there were some people that I hadn't ever met before.
• 14:13
  Danyelle: You know, we were meeting for the first time at the Bachelorette.
• 14:17
  Danyelle: And so there's also just the layers of what happens when you bring all of these people together who deeply love you and maybe are used to seeing you in a really specific way, and now you're here kind of the center of attention, and maybe you show up differently with those people.
• 14:39
  Michelle: For sure.
• 14:39
  Michelle: And I I'm I want to like kick off the story and then hear your perspective because you were getting a whole side of things that like I was really largely protected from.
• 14:49
  Michelle: But Ashley and I had a joint bachelorette in New Orleans, and we decided to do it joint, not because we can't be away from each other, but because we have mutual friends.
• 15:00
  Michelle: And so instead of asking people to either choose between us or to have to do both, we're like, let's do it together and we'll create some moments where we can each do our own thing and then come back together.
• 15:10
  Michelle: But it did mean that there were 26 people all up, I think, mostly women.
• 15:15
  Michelle: I think her cousin was there, Danny.
• 15:18
  Michelle: But from the get, it was a struggle because we had booked the Airbnb six or seven months in advance.
• 15:23
  Michelle: And then the day before, they were like, oh, there was some flooding and it's canceled.
• 15:27
  Michelle: And we were like, but we can't just find a house that will hold 26 people comfortably on demand.
• 15:34
  Michelle: Anyway, I digress, it worked out.
• 15:36
  Michelle: But the gals had planned everything from a second-line parade, uh, a burlesque dancer.
• 15:44
  Michelle: There was gonna be a chef to come and cook for us.
• 15:48
  Michelle: We had a night out where we're all wearing wigs.
• 15:50
  Michelle: There was a beautiful brunch that was hosted with like pictures everywhere and beautiful sunflowers.
• 15:56
  Michelle: There was a game that we all played.
• 15:57
  Michelle: I mean, you name it.
• 15:59
  Michelle: It's not that every second was planned for, but there were these really thoughtful events put together for us by our friends, but it did mean that 26 gals had to come together and like collaborate on who was doing what.
• 16:15
  Michelle: So, like I said, Ash and I were largely not a part of the planning, you know, except for a certain decision making.
• 16:21
  Michelle: Um, so I want to hear about that.
• 16:23
  Michelle: And I also wanted to say that I told Ashley, I'm like, she's like, oh my God, it's gonna be so great.
• 16:28
  Michelle: I was like, it's gonna be drama.
• 16:30
  Michelle: She was like, why would there be drama?
• 16:32
  Michelle: Like, because I've been in a wedding party before.
• 16:34
  Michelle: And like, to your point, your sisters know you in one way, and your friend from high school knows you in another way, your friend from college, it's like they they're getting to know different people.
• 16:45
  Michelle: And I am so guilty of maybe guilty is not the right word, but I'm very consistent in my friendships, are mostly one-on-one.
• 16:54
  Michelle: My idea of a good time, of course, I love a night out, a group, dinner as much as the next person, but I really love sitting and having a one-on-one conversation.
• 17:02
  Michelle: So to take my friendships who are used to that one-on-one undivided attention and then throw them into like this party scene where everyone's vying for you, it's awkward.
• 17:13
  Michelle: So, how what was it like being on the other end of that?
• 17:16
  Michelle: I'm like, I I never want to see that email throw.
• 17:19
  Michelle: There is so much drama.
• 17:20
  Michelle: Oh my goodness.
• 17:22
  Danyelle: I think you know, it's really it's it's really funny, it's very funny looking back.
• 17:31
  Danyelle: And I love that we collectively as the bridal party can look back and laugh.
• 17:38
  Danyelle: I hope everybody can.
• 17:39
  Michelle: I think we can.
• 17:40
  Michelle: Um motion for my chin.
• 17:47
  Danyelle: Um, no, but like, yeah, wow.
• 17:51
  Danyelle: And I think it was really interesting the dynamics of Ashley's closest friend and me being the people who were there to lead the group.
• 18:03
  Danyelle: And we did not get along in the beginning.
• 18:06
  Danyelle: It was it was violent.
• 18:08
  Danyelle: It was violent with the words.
• 18:10
  Danyelle: Um, and actually, no, it was so it was it was violent with the passive aggressive, um, you know, like one-word responses, or like that doesn't seem like something we which we should do.
• 18:22
  Danyelle: You know, it was a lot of there was a lot of like trying to fit in, right?
• 18:30
  Danyelle: Like trying to get your voice and your idea and your love for this person um to show it, to to be the one who is like, I thought of this thing.
• 18:42
  Michelle: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:43
  Michelle: And like, yeah, we're all kind of like wanting that gold star too.
• 18:48
  Michelle: And what is so important as you were talking about like passive aggressive or the layers of responses is like these are people who maybe you don't know, have never met, andor don't have at least a relationship with.
• 19:01
  Michelle: And so now you're primarily texting and emailing and having to decipher what is this person like?
• 19:07
  Michelle: What's their tone?
• 19:08
  Michelle: What do they mean?
• 19:09
  Michelle: I'm gonna go ahead and shout her out because I don't think she would mind.
• 19:12
  Michelle: Like somebody was really offended by our friend Lindsay, who is the silliest, most playful, like just wants to have a good time person.
• 19:21
  Michelle: And I was like, Lindsay, like what happened?
• 19:24
  Michelle: But I think she's a little short on message, not because she's being mean, but just off, no problem, because she's not thinking those extra layers of how is someone gonna receive this.
• 19:34
  Michelle: But yeah, it was like a little cringy after the fact to be like, oh my God, I had no idea, which bless y'all's hearts that you kept it from us because we had a great time.
• 19:42
  Michelle: Yeah, it was a great time.
• 19:44
  Danyelle: Yeah, it was so much fun.
• 19:46
  Danyelle: And you know, I think one of the things that I'm you know, even just reflecting on this moment is not about us.
• 19:56
  Danyelle: Like, sit down.
• 19:58
  Danyelle: I I said that at one point.
• 19:59
  Danyelle: You go girl in the middle of the second line parade.
• 20:02
  Danyelle: It's not about us.
• 20:05
  Danyelle: Can we enjoy the parade?
• 20:08
  Danyelle: And shout out to Ange because that us.
• 20:12
  Danyelle: Oh my gosh.
• 20:14
  Danyelle: Um, maybe serendipitous, I don't know, but a few of us stayed an extra night um after.
• 20:21
  Danyelle: So most everybody went home, and a handful of us stayed, and we went out to dinner.
• 20:27
  Danyelle: And it was every single thing that we needed to release that tension of like, oh, we just really love our friends.
• 20:36
  Danyelle: Um, there were way too many people trying to coordinate and again, right?
• 20:41
  Danyelle: Like trying to love on y'all.
• 20:43
  Danyelle: We started out a little rocky, a little unsure.
• 20:47
  Danyelle: Sure.
• 20:47
  Danyelle: A little unsure.
• 20:48
  Danyelle: Um, and you know, I think that is the beautiful thing about kind of bringing people together because once we got to really know each other and we both put down our armor, we were able to be like, oh, of course she's your bestie.
• 21:05
  Danyelle: Like, I love her one.
• 21:07
  Danyelle: Of course I'm gonna love you.
• 21:09
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Danyelle: Um and so yeah, I I'm deeply appreciative of our fierce love.
• 21:17
  Michelle: Well, I don't think it's attainable every time, but there are times and you know how good it feels when your friends become friends with each other.
• 21:25
  Michelle: And I think when through this process, depending on how long the engagement is and how long you're working together, you can make new friendships out of it.
• 21:36
  Michelle: But at a minimum, if you're open to it, you just get to see another part of your friend's life or how they show up with others or even family members.
• 21:45
  Michelle: And that part of the reason as queer women that Ash and I decided to get married because we were like, well, we don't need to.
• 21:55
  Michelle: It's not like a religious necessity.
• 21:58
  Michelle: We may not have all the family members.
• 22:00
  Michelle: Numbers there that we would want.
• 22:01
  Michelle: Like, why are we doing this?
• 22:03
  Michelle: And our decision was really about creating this shared moment, this memory with the people that we love that we can all look back on and laugh about.
• 22:13
  Michelle: And that felt really important to us.
• 22:15
  Michelle: And so now when I do bring up any one of Ashley's friends or family, you've met them all and have shared experiences with them, which when we talk about why we do this for our loved ones, it is sort of the selfless giving of your time to create these memories and to be more invested in that person's life.
• 22:35
  Michelle: But likewise, obviously, we're a special example.
• 22:38
  Michelle: But like you also don't have to do that for somebody.
• 22:42
  Michelle: I have turned down an offer to be a bridesmaid before.
• 22:45
  Michelle: Um, and I found out later that it it genuinely hurt her feelings, but I felt like I was letting her off the hook.
• 22:54
  Michelle: I do feel like sometimes you have this feeling of where do I draw the line?
• 22:58
  Michelle: Or if it's this girl group, it has to include everyone.
• 23:00
  Michelle: And I was like, you know, I truly love and adore you, but like I'm not the person you would call if you were you would have eight other people and they're the ones that are gonna be next to you.
• 23:10
  Michelle: You would call first.
• 23:11
  Michelle: So let me just attend and let me take pictures while I'm there, and or I can help with makeup, like I can still participate, but not one of your people like that, you know?
• 23:21
  Michelle: And um I felt really empowered in that because I know what it entails and I know how much I give, and like you have your people, and I want you guys to have that special moment.
• 23:32
  Michelle: Now, do I sometimes regret like I like I love a party, but let's be honest with where we're at.
• 23:39
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 23:41
  Danyelle: This is we don't have to put this on, but this is totally reminding me of how you're just not a people pleaser, and you've really done the work.
• 23:49
  Danyelle: I just want to highlight that.
• 23:51
  Michelle: No, I will not be your bridesmain.
• 23:53
  Michelle: I know like kind of me and now that I think about it, but I mean gorgeous real.
• 23:58
  Michelle: Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, I love that.
• 24:01
  Michelle: One thing I want to like quickly tap in here is that you're my best friend and have been since we were 15, 15, 16, and my little sisters are both my best friends too, and have known me my entire life.
• 24:19
  Michelle: And so there's also it wasn't so much me saying I love this person more than you, and it could feel like that, or like I don't know, like how that landed for you, or if you have or had feelings about that.
• 24:39
  Michelle: I feel awkward.
• 24:40
  Michelle: You don't have to answer, we can skip that.
• 24:42
  Michelle: But I maybe that I mean, if I'm being honest, I think let's be real.
• 24:47
  Michelle: Like I mean, this is why we're here doing the work.
• 24:52
  Danyelle: Um, yeah.
• 24:53
  Danyelle: So you asked me to be your bridesmaid at Serpentine, it's no longer there.
• 25:01
  Danyelle: Um, and it was so cute.
• 25:02
  Danyelle: It was like this fox, and it like things came out, and it was like so sweet.
• 25:08
  Danyelle: Um, and I was like super devastated that uh you didn't ask me to be your maid of honor.
• 25:14
  Danyelle: And I think there was this like, oh yes, of course.
• 25:23
  Danyelle: Yeah, but like, and I because I went in my head after that, I was like, oh, did she know that I was feeling very sad?
• 25:31
  Danyelle: I hope not.
• 25:32
  Danyelle: Um, and yeah, you know, eight years later, nine years later, maybe because well, but oh yeah, nine but yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:41
  Danyelle: Nine years later, um, you know, we get to talk about things that I avoided.
• 25:46
  Michelle: Oh no, I'm not ready.
• 25:49
  Michelle: No, I am.
• 25:49
  Michelle: I asked.
• 25:50
  Michelle: I asked, I'm ready.
• 25:51
  Michelle: I'm like gripping the mic.
• 25:53
  Michelle: Go ahead, it's fine.
• 25:54
  Danyelle: Well, I was like, never mind.
• 25:58
  Danyelle: Um I don't know if there's like more to it, you know, at this point.
• 26:04
  Danyelle: I think when I look back at the ways in which I showed up, like of course I was, you know, core.
• 26:14
  Danyelle: A pro a core, yes, exactly.
• 26:15
  Danyelle: Like I was there, I picked up your dress.
• 26:18
  Danyelle: There were things that allowed me to be close and and involved.
• 26:22
  Danyelle: It was the moment you asked versus the outcome.
• 26:26
  Danyelle: I couldn't predict that.
• 26:28
  Danyelle: And so in hindsight, I was like, yeah, like that actually felt really good and it made sense to me.
• 26:33
  Danyelle: And yeah, it was so much fun.
• 26:35
  Danyelle: And like everything about the wedding and the bachelorette party, like uh dreamy, um, goals.
• 26:43
  Michelle: Um and that version of myself sitting at the bar, yeah, was like, yeah, like just like oh yeah, feeling like it does, it feels like a referendum on your friendship or like the MySpace top eight of it all, right?
• 27:02
  Michelle: Yes.
• 27:03
  Michelle: For my fellow millennials.
• 27:05
  Michelle: Um absolutely.
• 27:07
  Michelle: Yeah, and you know, we were just talking about people pleasing, but like as someone who has to make those calls, you're thinking about the people that you love and the job to be done, and there's not often like a right way, and sometimes and maybe I like it's like sometimes you're like, this person can handle it.
• 27:28
  Michelle: Yeah, you know, like she knows where she stands in my life, and like and I know she'll still show up for me, so it's a little selfish in that way, right?
• 27:37
  Michelle: I was not people pleasing you, yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Totally, yeah.
• 27:41
  Michelle: And I think because I felt safe to do so, but imagine if I thought I would lose you, yeah, and the like balance of all of that, yeah.
• 27:50
  Danyelle: Yeah, and I yeah, like that feels so real, you know, like and this is why we constantly are like, and yeah, this is the quintessential both and yeah, you are a thousand percent right.
• 28:07
  Danyelle: I had my feelings, I did with them as I do, and kept it pushing and showed up and did the things, and like I held it in the ways that I needed to, and I absolutely was like, this doesn't actually mean what society means for yeah, my younger self, society, the ad lib being, the stories I'm telling myself, like it it is separate.
• 28:35
  Danyelle: And so I I love that you're saying that in this moment too, because it's like when you can feel that connection and that safety, there is room to be like you get to decide what it means, you get to have a more expansive way of looking at it, that it isn't just what's on the surface, it isn't what society says it means.
• 29:02
  Danyelle: It gets to be deeper.
• 29:03
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 29:04
  Michelle: And I think even just that we are two women getting married means that immediately there are going to be certain traditions that don't fit or work.
• 29:13
  Michelle: And we have this beautiful community, and there are three women whose weddings I was in as a maid of honor or bridesmaid who weren't in my bridal party.
• 29:23
  Michelle: Doesn't mean that I don't love them dearly.
• 29:25
  Michelle: It's just that the phases of our life had moved in different directions.
• 29:29
  Michelle: But it's never a definition of how much I love you or whether or not I want you in my life.
• 29:35
  Michelle: It might literally just be we live in the same city and this is gonna work better, or you know what I mean?
• 29:42
  Michelle: It's so it's so interesting, the things that you think about not to mention.
• 29:48
  Michelle: Ashley and I paid for the wedding ourselves in cash.
• 29:52
  Michelle: Oof, what a feat.
• 29:53
  Michelle: We had a roommate for many, many years to save, but we made some weird decisions in our wedding too.
• 30:02
  Michelle: Like on your early 30s, you just yeah, you make some weird, like you're like, I can't afford that one extra invite, you know.
• 30:12
  Michelle: When looking back on it, I probably could have, and it would have been fine.
• 30:15
  Michelle: So it's not perfect, but I do want to kind of like jump back to the beginning of one of my stories, my first time being a maid of honor.
• 30:23
  Michelle: I was in my early 20s, and I think I've mentioned this before, but just in a tough place financially, I did have time.
• 30:31
  Michelle: So I was able to go to the dress fittings and the dress tryings on and help her go pick out decor and visit the venue.
• 30:39
  Michelle: And so I got to really give her that gift of my presence and decision making and just all that.
• 30:46
  Michelle: But when it came to the Bachelorette party, I had never been to one before.
• 30:50
  Michelle: And I wasn't as versed in the tradition of it all.
• 30:55
  Michelle: And so I had planned to have it start at my apartment and I had games there, I had decorated, and then unbeknownst to me, there was a second bridemaid who she had grown up with who was like pretty wealthy, like via her family and lifestyle.
• 31:13
  Michelle: And without telling me on that night, they had decided to move it to a hotel downtown.
• 31:19
  Michelle: And I was mortified and I had to suck it up and because it wasn't about me, and pack up the decorations and pack up all the stuff I had planned and get on the bus and take it downtown.
• 31:31
  Michelle: Kids, this is before Uber existed, andor the money to afford an Uber.
• 31:37
  Michelle: And so many I so much here.
• 31:42
  Michelle: One is I'm glad that she got to have more of the bachelorette that maybe she wanted, but felt like she couldn't share with me.
• 31:49
  Michelle: Knowing what I know now, I might have either asked for help.
• 31:54
  Michelle: I felt like because I was the maid of honor, it was my job and I had to do it alone, also not necessarily knowing how important it was.
• 32:02
  Michelle: And also, if they had had better tools, they might have communicated differently with me so that I wasn't so embarrassed.
• 32:08
  Michelle: Um, yeah, so that's a that was an interesting one.
• 32:11
  Michelle: And that same bridesmaid like really wanted a certain kind of shoe, and they were$250.
• 32:18
  Michelle: And I was like, no.
• 32:19
  Michelle: And I really held my ground.
• 32:21
  Michelle: Having said that, the bridesmaid dress that was picked out didn't come in my size.
• 32:25
  Michelle: So I lost 25 pounds to fit into it because I couldn't afford alterations.
• 32:30
  Michelle: So, you know, we all go through it and decide there's something about the way that we uphold this tradition that feels so important to show up in this very specific way.
• 32:44
  Michelle: But on the other end of it, as both having been a bride and a mean of honor and a guest and all the things, it's like none of that really matters.
• 32:53
  Danyelle: Yeah, I'm just holding very tender space for and I maybe because I'm I've matured, so I can give grace.
• 33:06
  Danyelle: Sure.
• 33:06
  Danyelle: And as your best friend, I'm like, huh.
• 33:10
  Michelle: But I think I think I was able to quickly accept it because we grew up on the outside of wealth.
• 33:18
  Michelle: And so it was a very quick snap of like, oh, I misunderstood this.
• 33:23
  Michelle: Like I knew that we would have fun and we would make it a party and we would head out to the club after and have a great time.
• 33:30
  Michelle: Um, but it's also I lived in San Francisco, no one else did, and so it's hard to communicate like I have a vision for this, but also it was like, oh, the wealthy people will step in and fix this.
• 33:42
  Michelle: Like, okay, got it, know my place.
• 33:44
  Danyelle: Well, and like not new.
• 33:48
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 33:49
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 33:49
  Danyelle: I know.
• 33:50
  Michelle: Feeling that in my chest.
• 33:53
  Michelle: Really fun wedding, though.
• 33:56
  Michelle: Really fun.
• 33:56
  Michelle: I will say had a great time.
• 33:58
  Danyelle: They typically are.
• 34:00
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 34:01
  Danyelle: Um, you know, thinking back to all of the weddings I went to in 2018, they all had their things, but they were all so much fun.
• 34:11
  Michelle: I love a wedding that feels kind of like summer camp, like you're there for the weekend and maybe you're like in close proximity to each other, and you just get to like play and somebody else is hosting you and telling you where to go.
• 34:23
  Michelle: The best.
• 34:24
  Michelle: It is really, it can be really fun.
• 34:26
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 34:26
  Michelle: If you let yourself enjoy it and like release from how am I being seen?
• 34:34
  Michelle: How am I showing up?
• 34:35
  Michelle: What do I mean to this person?
• 34:37
  Michelle: Are they gonna like pay attention to me?
• 34:39
  Michelle: Because it is you're like famous for that day, right?
• 34:43
  Michelle: You're like in the spotlight, and then it feels really special when that gets like shined on you and it like acknowledge that you're special in this person's life in front of everyone that matters to them, you know.
• 34:56
  Michelle: Wow, yes.
• 34:58
  Michelle: I didn't think about it in that way, but you are like famous.
• 35:02
  Michelle: I'm glad on our wedding we had the night before we forced everyone to make their own bouquets.
• 35:08
  Michelle: That was really fun.
• 35:09
  Michelle: That was fun.
• 35:09
  Michelle: Well, that was fun.
• 35:12
  Michelle: There were moments that were stressful, but we we love words of affirmation and partying with our friends, and so having an open mic so that it wasn't like during the wedding when everyone just wants to get to the dance floor and move on.
• 35:31
  Michelle: But that like with our closest family and friends, we got to sit there and have some speeches and like shoot the shit together in a way that was like we created moments to be like you're all of our people, even if you're not the man of honor.
• 35:48
  Michelle: Yeah, that was really fun.
• 35:50
  Michelle: That was fun.
• 35:51
  Michelle: I mean, I loved it selfishly.
• 35:52
  Michelle: I was like, everybody loves me.
• 35:55
  Michelle: Who's your famous?
• 35:55
  Michelle: Yeah, I'm famous.
• 35:58
  Danyelle: Um yeah, I that I think you know what it's interesting as we're like moving through the episode and naming the layers of friendship, the layers of expectations, the layers of, you know, what is right, what is, you know, the most, the what is the best, the hotel versus your apartment.
• 36:22
  Danyelle: Yeah, right.
• 36:23
  Danyelle: I'm really sitting with, but they were all fun, you know, and there is something about how do we release the need to have it be a certain way.
• 36:36
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 36:36
  Danyelle: And we as the bridal party, as the bride, as the as the you know, people getting married, the the guests, all of it.
• 36:44
  Danyelle: Just like, how do we what could it be?
• 36:47
  Danyelle: Yeah, if it wasn't all of the elbowing and trying to get to the front of the famous person.
• 36:58
  Michelle: One of the weddings that I was in was interesting because she ended up not naming a maid of honor.
• 37:04
  Michelle: And I think that that actually was a bit of people pleasing.
• 37:07
  Michelle: If I had to guess or sort of reflect back on it, it was like not wanting to rank her friends.
• 37:14
  Michelle: But I remember feeling like there was something missing.
• 37:18
  Michelle: Like we all then, the girls that some of them knew each other, but I didn't because I was her friend from college.
• 37:25
  Michelle: And we then had to navigate and negotiate like who was in charge of what.
• 37:30
  Michelle: Whereas normally it's like you're the maid of honor and you will be throwing the bachelorette when you can assign tasks from there.
• 37:36
  Michelle: And even on the day of when stuff came up, there just wasn't that go-to.
• 37:41
  Michelle: And then none of us really wanted to overstep.
• 37:44
  Michelle: And I do remember feeling a little lost in it.
• 37:47
  Michelle: Like, am I like, am I the maid of honor?
• 37:50
  Michelle: Really?
• 37:51
  Michelle: You know, like ever we were all still sort of like wondering what what our place was.
• 37:56
  Michelle: So just to say that too, if you are a person who's navigating a wedding, if it truly is your decision to keep the level playing field, I would go out on a limb and assign people their jobs because then it takes the guesswork out of it for them.
• 38:11
  Michelle: But also that to what we said here, like looking at us, and you maybe you're tuning in for the first time, but if you followed us, you know how close we are and that we are best friends.
• 38:22
  Michelle: Me not naming you as my maid of honor was not saying anything about our closeness.
• 38:28
  Michelle: And so if you can let go of what it means, make someone your maid of honor, have or co-maids of honor, have somebody that can stand by you and yeah, just be your eyes and ears.
• 38:42
  Michelle: And like I feel like I'm lucky because I had so many of those.
• 38:45
  Michelle: But food for thought and jealousy may come up, and like trusting that your friends can navigate it, trusting that you can navigate it, and how beautiful that you have been one of the people that they've collected along the way and along their tapestry of where life has taken them.
• 39:06
  Michelle: I know weddings get put on a pedestal of like, do not ruin the special day, but to the extent that you can be along for the ride.
• 39:13
  Michelle: And when I look at all the weddings and how different they looked for each of my friends, it's so fun.
• 39:20
  Michelle: It's it's just cool to have been a part of it.
• 39:24
  Danyelle: Yeah, I I feel so similar as you are speaking.
• 39:29
  Danyelle: That thing that's coming up for me is something that does feel like the thread of this season of the internal work.
• 39:36
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 39:37
  Danyelle: And is this really about you, or is this really about ensuring that there is safety for the person getting married, for your friend?
• 39:50
  Danyelle: Is there space to say, we can let this go?
• 39:54
  Danyelle: We can be present, I'm gonna check in with my body, I'm gonna regulate, I'm gonna use my tools, and I'm gonna still show up.
• 40:02
  Danyelle: What we've said is there have been varying degrees of drama, of discomfort, of disappointment.
• 40:09
  Danyelle: And it was still so much fun.
• 40:12
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 40:12
  Danyelle: You know, a love day, that's that's how I talk about weddings.
• 40:15
  Danyelle: Like a love day, yes.
• 40:17
  Danyelle: Like, I do want to put it on a pedestal because that's what we need more of.
• 40:22
  Danyelle: Love each other.
• 40:23
  Danyelle: Show us the the ways in which your relationship has bloomed and blossomed and continues to grow.
• 40:30
  Danyelle: All the other stuff is for the birds.
• 40:32
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 40:33
  Michelle: I'm gonna like put a little wrench in things, but I think I can wrap it up quickly.
• 40:38
  Michelle: But it's like really coming in hot in my mind.
• 40:43
  Michelle: Before I even dive in, I'm gonna just say, like, go back to that boundaries episode if you need to, either as the bride or as a person in the wedding party, bride or groom, et cetera, or a person in the wedding party.
• 40:58
  Michelle: You are allowed to say no.
• 41:00
  Michelle: You're allowed to decide how much money you're willing to spend or put out if you can go on that trip.
• 41:05
  Michelle: And likewise, as the person getting married, you are allowed to say this is a stipulation of you being in my party.
• 41:12
  Michelle: And so I think for both of those things to work and to still navigate friendship through that, you have to allow the other person to have that boundary and decide to still maintain that friendship.
• 41:24
  Michelle: Because when I think about the drama, not just within the wedding party and each other, but with the wedding party and the bride or groom, is this like, well, you didn't do what my expectation was, and therefore you've let me down.
• 41:37
  Michelle: And this is that internal work that you were talking about where it's like, I know what my capacity is, physically, emotionally, financially, otherwise, and I've stated it, and then I can live with the consequences.
• 41:50
  Michelle: Can you?
• 41:52
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 41:53
  Michelle: Can you hold it?
• 41:59
  Michelle: Anything else bubble to the surface for you this episode?
• 42:03
  Danyelle: Um Yeah, I mean, it was really fun eight years later, admitting that I felt very sad that you didn't ask me to be.
• 42:13
  Danyelle: You're made a body.
• 42:14
  Danyelle: I know, I know.
• 42:15
  Danyelle: Yeah, well, of course you did.
• 42:17
  Danyelle: I know.
• 42:17
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 42:17
  Danyelle: I but did I I did I did I make it obvious in the moment?
• 42:21
  Danyelle: Okay, great.
• 42:21
  Michelle: No, you did really good.
• 42:23
  Michelle: Um, but of course coming to you in with real life things.
• 42:27
  Michelle: I actually don't think I would handle it as gracefully.
• 42:31
  Danyelle: You wouldn't.
• 42:32
  Michelle: No.
• 42:32
  Michelle: And I would be like, who do I need to fight?
• 42:35
  Michelle: Because I'm ready and I'll win.
• 42:39
  Michelle: And it's not even about like being a better friend because obviously, but also I would do a better job.
• 42:44
  Michelle: So, like, what mistake are you making?
• 42:47
  Michelle: If all of these things are true, all these things are true.
• 42:50
  Michelle: I'm not fully healed.
• 42:52
  Michelle: That's what we're learning.
• 42:54
  Danyelle: Well, but I I that's this is what I think has bubbled up, and maybe this entire season.
• 43:00
  Danyelle: But yeah, there's still work to be done.
• 43:03
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 43:04
  Danyelle: And you know, we we get to do that work, we get to be messy, we get to try again, we get to, you know, I get to not stop being avoidant.
• 43:18
  Danyelle: I'm here eight years later.
• 43:20
  Danyelle: I can hear it.
• 43:21
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 43:21
  Danyelle: Um, I mean, you did.
• 43:23
  Danyelle: He did.
• 43:23
  Danyelle: I was like, oh no, oh no.
• 43:26
  Michelle: I can say it.
• 43:26
  Michelle: I probably already know.
• 43:28
  Michelle: Should we tell me?
• 43:31
  Michelle: Um, what about for you?
• 43:34
  Michelle: I'm feeling young, like revisiting all these memories.
• 43:38
  Michelle: Like, I think I had a year with Ash and I between the two of us because we love to collect our friends.
• 43:42
  Michelle: I think we had 13 weddings and we've traveled and done all the things.
• 43:48
  Michelle: Um, so that season feels past in some ways.
• 43:52
  Michelle: That's not to say we don't have the pleasure of getting to go to a wedding every now and then, but that season of being that invested and emotional feels.
• 44:00
  Michelle: Behind us, but it's been fun to relive it through this lens of healing and tools, and like what would I have done differently, and how can I look at it through both sides of it all, and and also be in a place to hear what it was like to be a member of my wedding party when we made 26 people stay together in New Orleans.
• 44:24
  Michelle: Yeah, but it it feels fun, and it feels like because we all came out of it alive, it's easy to sort of like laugh at the the craziness that happened along the way.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:37
  Michelle: I'm also feeling excited to post some of the pictures and videos from from these events.
• 44:44
  Michelle: I'm sorry, I'm gonna be an Aries about it, but my favorite picture from my wedding is well, okay, second favorite.
• 44:53
  Michelle: Uh there's a picture of Ashley and I walking down the aisle after we got married with confetti, which is truly beautiful.
• 44:58
  Michelle: But second to that, and it's a tight second, is me with my bridesmaids.
• 45:03
  Michelle: Everyone's wearing their own dress and their own version of Emerald Green, but I mean it's like out of vogue.
• 45:09
  Michelle: We just like everybody looks so beautiful, and I feel so surrounded by love in that photo.
• 45:17
  Michelle: I love it, I love that picture.
• 45:20
  Michelle: Get ready.
• 45:20
  Michelle: It's coming in.
• 45:22
  Michelle: It is.
• 45:23
  Danyelle: I remember when your pictures came out, and I was just like, Yes, again and again.
• 45:28
  Michelle: I that was like next to the venue.
• 45:30
  Michelle: The second most amount of money we spent was on the photographers, and it was so worth it.
• 45:34
  Michelle: That was in person, yeah.
• 45:35
  Michelle: Gorgeous.
• 45:37
  Michelle: Um, will you pull us a card?
• 45:39
  Michelle: I will, my love, for the wedding episode.
• 45:44
  Michelle: Such a like girlhood um milestone is to be in someone's wedding and to experience that.
• 45:53
  Michelle: Oh, we got a jumper.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the queen of cups.
• 45:58
  Michelle: Yeah, that's perfect.
• 46:00
  Danyelle: Yeah, this feels very aligned.
• 46:04
  Danyelle: Um, cups is connected to the element water, and queen is the most expansive energy in the tarot.
• 46:13
  Danyelle: And I'm thinking about this as just like what is the mastery of getting through these milestones, these benchmarks?
• 46:24
  Danyelle: How do you collectively show up and be there to hold all of it, to hold the feelings, the emotions, the hurts, the jealousy?
• 46:34
  Danyelle: The Queen of Cups is very like cancer energy, very moon energy, like nurturing.
• 46:41
  Danyelle: And and I I oftentimes do this because it's like you can hold it all emotions.
• 46:46
  Danyelle: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:46
  Danyelle: You can hold it all.
• 46:47
  Danyelle: You can stand at the edge of the ocean and it can wave over you over and over and over again, and you never fall off of your throne.
• 46:56
  Danyelle: And so I think the invitation here is to anchor yourself.
• 47:01
  Danyelle: Anchor yourself into what you know to be true, anchor yourself into the present and not the outcome.
• 47:09
  Danyelle: Ooh, I like that.
• 47:10
  Danyelle: Allow yourself to just be here and flow.
• 47:14
  Danyelle: Let the water come over you, but don't allow it to become you.
• 47:20
  Michelle: Okay, I'm gonna sneak in a little bonus memory that just arose in my mind with the Queen of Cups, my maid of honor, my little sister Stephanie, and my best friend Danielle the night before my wedding, both had to go and bail out my wedding planner who got a DUI the night before my wedding.
• 47:43
  Michelle: That did happen.
• 47:44
  Michelle: So if ever there was a job to be done, you were there.
• 47:49
  Michelle: I was there.
• 47:50
  Michelle: Thank you.
• 47:50
  Danyelle: Anytime.
• 47:51
  Michelle: I mean, and and and just those things that feel so dramatic at the moment end up being like the funny stories you tell.
• 47:59
  Michelle: Hilarious.
• 48:00
  Michelle: I love telling this story.
• 48:01
  Michelle: Oof, this was a fun one.
• 48:03
  Michelle: All right.
• 48:03
  Michelle: See you next week.
• 48:05
  Michelle: Bye.
• 48:06
  Michelle: If today's episode meant something to you, share it with a friend.
• 48:10
  Michelle: Find us on Instagram at the Third Thing Pod, and everything we're building lives at www.thethirdthingpod.com.
• 48:18
  Michelle: Episode notes, our workbooks, all of it.
• 48:21
  Danyelle: And if you're ready to go deeper, real community, monthly events, early access, and to join the group chat, we're on Patreon.
• 48:29
  Michelle: The link is in the show notes.
• 48:31
  Michelle: If you're loving the show, a rating and review genuinely helps more people find us.
• 48:36
  Michelle: It takes two minutes and it means everything.