Latest / Meet Me At The Deli / Gut Prep Before the Holiday with Shannon Sarna of The Nosher

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Gut Prep Before the Holiday with Shannon Sarna of The Nosher · Meet Me At The Deli

0:16
Welcome to Meet Me at the Deli, a food advice podcast where the
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Pickles and slaw are always free.
0:21
I'm Liz. And I'm Jeffrey, every episode
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we're answering your burning food and culinary questions, and
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we're sharing our stories and insights from years working in
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the industry and living in our self-made dental.
0:34
All right, so, Jeffrey, Friday, you were supposed to join me at
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our friend's house, and you, you couldn't go last minute, but I
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need to tell you, you really missed out.
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You missed out on a treat, a culinary delight.
0:48
Oh, wow. Yeah.
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So our friend Irene, who is an elder of ours, a scholar, a
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she's originally from Australia, really, we know her from all of
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these professional circles we've been in.
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She had invited us over for tea and something called Marilyn
1:06
Canodal and what this was, which was in an e-mail that she sent
1:11
us, but I did not look it up. I didn't know what it was.
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OK, And went to her house. You've been to this beautiful
1:17
home, beautiful day in. Years on the Upper West Side
1:20
paint the. Picture.
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Yeah, you know, beautiful. Beautiful.
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And she's preparing this dish and this dish was essentially
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these this dough, and it can be either made of cheese or potato
1:36
and like flour, like a dumpling. Yep, Yep, Yep.
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And then what you do is you wrap it around apricot, an apricot
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and then and it could also be plum if it's plum season.
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Dried or fresh? A fresh upper.
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Well, she had used ones that she had canned, so there's no
1:55
obviously, but she had used ones that they're canned like it's
1:56
wet, it's not a it's not dried. So it could be fresh or it could
2:00
be the one that, you know, she had canned it from last season
2:04
and you and OK, so that's not it.
2:06
You're not just like, oh, here's a dumpling with a apricot.
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You boil it like a like a matzo ball or, you know, like a
2:14
dumpling really. And then you roll it in bread
2:19
crumbs cooked in butter and brown sugar, and it comes out
2:24
and it's hot and you cut it open and it's like this apricot, just
2:28
like oozing out. And I had really never had
2:32
anything quite like it. And I want to show you a picture
2:35
of what it looks like here. Look at that.
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Oh, that's beautiful. So you can see we've got this,
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this beautiful dumpling, like it almost looks like a matzo ball,
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you know, But then it's a sweet. It's sweet because you can tell
2:47
that it's covered in sugar and these and these bread crumbs.
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And there's a beautiful orange center.
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It almost, it looks almost like a like a Scotch of eggish, but
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like a sweet version of a like of a Scotch of egg.
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Yes, and I will tell you that we spent the better half, the
3:04
better 3/4 of an hour talking about how to make this dish.
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So that's what you missed on Friday and I will make it for
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you soon. The funny thing about this is,
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like Canoodle, the German dumpling, it's Canadel the
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Canadelo, which is the Yiddish name for matzo balls.
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Yeah, matzo balls are just a matzo version of canoodle.
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And it's just something that I, I, it annoys me that like we
3:27
weren't taught this growing up. I'm like when I went to Germany
3:30
and ate all these amazing different types of, of
3:33
dumplings, I kept on being like, wait, I'm just eating matzo
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balls, but they're potato. But and, or they're, they're
3:37
sweet and they're in sugar. And so I just kind of feel like
3:40
we were robbed of the potential for so many wonderful dumplings.
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Well, I've got amazing news. You don't need to be deprived
3:48
anymore. You are an adult man and you
3:51
will make these dumplings however you.
3:54
Want so I can get over my? Yeah, maybe like it's time to
3:57
change the script, but I'm really excited and I think also
4:00
we can make them together. I like really really paid
4:03
attention to how to do. It I'm excited.
4:05
I'm excited. OK, Well, I wanted to share with
4:06
you, I've been thinking about this experience I had.
4:10
So I was at a restaurant in California.
4:12
I was at Rustic Canyon, which is like a really nice, very, very
4:16
seasonal farm to table restaurant.
4:19
And do you know this experience when you are sort of known for
4:22
something, you're an expert. So for example, you are known
4:25
for, for example, so gefilte fish, right?
4:27
And then someone serves A gefilte fish and tells you a
4:30
very specific thing about gefilte fish.
4:32
And you're expected to know like they expect that you know that.
4:35
So so I was at this restaurant and someone the waiters brings
4:39
this pickle plate and says these are Pickles in the Ohio style
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and leaves and everyone turns to me.
4:47
Like the state? Yeah, the state.
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Everyone turns to me and and and like and we're all.
4:53
And you're in Calabria. And we're all just like, yeah,
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Ohio style. And then like then like 5
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minutes in. And you, being a pickle expert,
5:00
are the one that should be like Ohio style.
5:03
Like that extra dash of cumin that makes it fresh from Ohio.
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Yeah, So I do the nod of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But then like 5 minutes in, I kind of turn to everyone.
5:11
They bring these Pickles. I'm eating them.
5:13
I'm like, and these are just like, they're kind of like a
5:15
standard, like maybe like almost like a Giardiniera, like it's
5:18
like, but. You're sure it's not like a word
5:20
in another language? I'm pretty sure cuz I
5:22
specifically once I talked to the table and I said to
5:25
everyone. Does anyone else know Ohio
5:28
style? And everyone acknowledged that
5:30
they do not. And I was like, OK, we need to
5:31
find out more. So bring the waiter over.
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And I was like, can you speak to this Ohio style pickle?
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And then he's like, well, the chef, you know, it's he, he
5:40
brought it over and, and I'm going to find out more details.
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He goes to the back, comes back and then he's like, you know,
5:45
it's, it's there's oil on the brine.
5:47
It's like part oil, part vinegar brine, 1/2 and half.
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And so I'm like, you know, and so I, I've been sitting with
5:55
this. And then we have a friend, Chef
5:58
Jeremy Umansky in Ohio, who's a Pickler.
6:02
And so I wrote to him. I was like, Jeremy, do you know
6:04
what this is? Yeah, yeah.
6:05
And that was a good thing to do. And he said, I've never heard of
6:08
Ohio style Pickles. And he happened to know the chef
6:12
of this restaurant or who used to work there.
6:14
Nice. And he's like, he's like, he
6:15
spent like 5, like maybe a few years or like some months in
6:19
Ohio maybe. He's not even from.
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Ohio. But I described what I what I
6:22
had eaten, this pickle that had it was vinegar, a little bit of
6:25
oil in it. It was kind of a medley of
6:27
vegetables, of cauliflower and carrots.
6:30
And it tasted kind of like a standard Mediterranean pickle,
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you know? And he said he thinks it's
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actually an Amish pickle and he think the chef was just
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referencing. His.
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Ohio this Ohio Ness, but it was just one of those experiences
6:44
where I had where I was like I really like it's just such a
6:46
funny. It doesn't really exist in Ohio
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style pickle, but I was led to believe like that I missed some
6:52
critical pickle information. Yeah.
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And I was sort of on this hunt to find it out.
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So I thought you might appreciate this journey that I
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went. On I do I do I, I, I do
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appreciate that I also love the sort of like moment of
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embarrassment that you had to experience because we we've all
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been there, you know, where there's like an assumption that
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you know something and you don't know the thing.
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And I also appreciate that Jeremy was the perfect person to
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to call about this because, you know, sometimes you need to
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phone a friend, which is what we do here on our show it.
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Was a fantastic segue. Hey, we've got an amazing guest
7:26
coming in today. We'll bring her on in just a
7:29
second. Shannon Sarna, celebrated
7:31
cookbook, author of multiple cookbooks, amazing cooking
7:35
teacher. She is the What is her official
7:38
title? She's the chief of staff at
7:41
Raza, which is one of the best pizza places, I'd say, in the
7:44
country. Oh my God, the last time we went
7:46
there, we were treated to a real feast.
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It was so good. I would also say Shannon is
7:53
funny, you know, no pressure and very knowledgeable about Jewish
7:56
cooking. So I'm excited to have her on to
7:59
handle some of the questions that we are facing today.
8:04
But in the meantime, I wanted to just shout out another show that
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They bring on their funniest comedian friends, rabbis and
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Love you, Yenta. All right.
9:01
Okay. Are we ready to do it?
9:03
Let's bring Shannon on. Okay, so Shannon, get on here.
9:06
Come on in. Hi, you're here flushing from
9:11
that intro. That was just lovely and true,
9:14
right? Well, Shannon, something that I
9:17
you shared with us in preparation for this show was
9:20
that you once got kicked out of Harold's Deli in Edison, NJ.
9:27
Now I'd like to take a minute to talk about Harold's in Edison
9:31
because it really feels worthy of this broadcast as we're all
9:34
laughing. We all know what Harold's is and
9:37
you're all about to know. And we'd love to hear why I got
9:40
kicked out. So I have theories.
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I I assumed, I had assumed that you had been to Harold.
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'S yes, we, we, we went to Harold's there.
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I'm so glad I the punch line. The best part of the story is
9:51
that I can claim that I got kicked out of a Jewish deli,
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which feels really on brand. It's it's a little bit of a sad
9:57
story really. But basically, early on when I
10:00
was editor of the Nosher, I came across Harold's right, which is
10:06
like gargantuan proportions of of Jelly food, right?
10:10
Like the sandwiches are this big and they're the size of your
10:13
head. It's like, it's like, it's like
10:15
the Disneyland of Jewish. Like they want you to have that
10:18
experience. Like you eggs are like 13,
10:21
omelets are 13. Egg.
10:22
Omelet. Meant to be shared like it
10:25
really leans into the communal aspect of deli eating.
10:28
And there's an entire pickle bar, yes, right.
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Which is like, it's really famous for that.
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So good. So I I find out about Harold's
10:35
and I was like, well, this feels like like fantastic visual
10:39
storytelling and we were really leaning into like videos at the
10:43
at the time and I was the nosher at the nosher.
10:46
What? What is the nosher?
10:47
Can we explain? Sure, sure.
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So the Nosher was my first baby. It's a website that dedicated
10:52
entirely to telling the story of Jewish food.
10:54
It was started about, I want to say 1415 years.
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Ago, it really was your first baby.
10:59
It was my first baby. Yeah, I was pregnant with my
11:02
oldest daughter when we when we started it.
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Wow. And it's part of the 70 Faces
11:07
Media Group. So we were, it was like Facebook
11:12
Prime at that time. We're putting out a lot of
11:14
videos. I was like, well, this feels
11:15
like like video, right? Like absolutely.
11:18
Big sandwiches, huge matzo soup, total bark.
11:20
Totally. So I've just started making some
11:23
phone calls, trying to, you know, get on the phone with the
11:26
owner Harold, to say I want to come and make a video about your
11:30
your deli. And he hung up the phone on me.
11:33
So I tried again. And like, I don't know, like, I
11:36
must kind of like have a sweet, nice, slightly annoying Jewish
11:40
lady voice. But I was like, OK, I'm going to
11:41
get back on the phone with him, right?
11:42
I'm going to convince him hangs up again on me.
11:43
OK. It's only 30 minutes away from
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where I'm living in Jersey City at the time.
11:47
I was like, I'm not going to get in the car.
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Who was going to say no to this face, right?
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Like when you're when you're 4 foot 10 and like a cute little
11:54
Jewish lady, you, you get said yes a lot too.
11:56
So I was like, they're not gonna say no.
11:58
I'm just gonna show up. Long story short, not only did
12:02
he say no, but he told the woman at the front desk that if I kept
12:05
staying there, that they were gonna call the police on me.
12:08
And I got kicked out of Harolds. And I was really worried about
12:13
going back, but I did. I did go back.
12:15
And you didn't video, I didn't video they.
12:17
Didn't recognize you figured like they didn't have your photo
12:20
at the front that said do not serve you.
12:22
Know he did look but also like short Jewish ladies with dark
12:26
hair also all kind of look the same right so I think.
12:28
There's a bunch of a bunch of New Jersey.
12:30
There's a bunch of. New Jersey, right?
12:31
Totally. We do have these fantastic
12:33
photos of my middle daughter Billy on the table laying next
12:37
to the matzo ball suit. Because as big as she was as a
12:39
baby at like 4 months is as big as the matzo balls, right?
12:43
Wow. So and Harold died last year.
12:47
Wow, we. Got another thank you for
12:48
telling us. So it means I can show my face
12:50
again at Harold's I guess. OK.
12:51
Yeah, well, I don't know if either of you know this, but I
12:55
have been kicked out of a deli also but.
12:58
Is your, but your story is probably better than mine.
13:00
I can't say than mine do you know, but I don't know if I ever
13:02
showed this. Yeah, I know.
13:03
What deli? You.
13:06
Gonna say it. Should I say it?
13:07
No. Just.
13:08
Say it. OK, well, it was the Pastrami
13:10
Queen on the Upper East Side. What were you doing on the Upper
13:13
East Side? That's that's the.
13:15
Question. Why were you?
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On the Upper East Side, I. Don't know eight years ago and
13:20
you know it's a very small deli there's only it's four top four
13:24
top deli OK and so there's. Like nothing, there's no seats.
13:27
And I was there and I was there and I had friends with me from
13:30
Montreal who had just desperately wanted to go to a
13:33
Jewish deli because they're not Jewish.
13:34
But I've talked about Jewish deli a lot.
13:36
I visited Montreal. They were so excited.
13:39
And we take them and there's four seats, all empty, and we go
13:42
and sit in one seat and there is the person who worked there.
13:46
I've seen him a bunch. I don't know, I don't think he's
13:48
connected to ownership. He probably doesn't work there
13:50
anymore. He was just a manager.
13:52
And we sat at this one seat because there was ATV showing a
13:55
hockey game on like, you know, right behind another one.
13:58
And the other ones were like, you know, the less ideal.
14:01
This was the only good seat. And they're Canadians.
14:03
They watch hockey. They were not interested in
14:05
hockey actually. They just had no interest.
14:07
So I sit there and then this guy comes over and he just says move
14:10
there and, and points to the other table right behind right
14:15
at the TV. And then there's no one else in
14:18
the restaurant. It's just us.
14:19
And he was just so rude. And then I say, excuse me, can
14:23
you tell us why you'd like us to move?
14:25
And he's like, he just said it again.
14:26
Move there. I was just like, excuse me,
14:31
could you, you know, maybe be a bit more respectful when you ask
14:33
us? And then he's like, and he just
14:36
kind of got very upset and he's just like, get out.
14:39
And then we're just like this is.
14:40
A Seinfeld. Episode yeah.
14:41
And we're just like, I was like shocked.
14:43
I'm like in in. You're like bro, I'm literally
14:46
I'm in. It's so hot, man.
14:48
I'm in my, I'm in the, but I'm in synagogue here.
14:51
I'm in the secular synagogue. I'm at like home and here's this
14:54
guy and it was like, what are you OK?
14:57
And then and then we like are walking in.
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As we're walking out, I'm like, excuse me.
15:00
Like I, I, I work in food and hospitality.
15:02
This is no way to treat people. And then he lunges at me as if
15:05
he's like wants to hit me. And I'm just like, I, we like
15:08
walk out. I'm like, I, I have never
15:10
experienced that at a restaurant in my life.
15:13
And then and my friends were shell shocked as Canadians were
15:17
so nice. You know, right, They're like,
15:19
what just happened? And you're like, I don't even
15:20
know. And, and delis are known for bad
15:22
service, but this was like a different kind of bad.
15:24
It's like, Oh my God. And so, and they were so
15:27
distraught. And I was like, how are we going
15:28
to say this? But we were on the Upper East
15:30
Side and guess what was not far away?
15:32
The 2nd Ave. Delhi.
15:34
So I took them to the second Ave.
15:35
Delhi on like Sept 79th and, and, and 1st over there.
15:40
And then we sat down and there were the kindest waitstaff and
15:44
they took such good care of us and it was so cathartic to be
15:47
there. But I I was shocked by how bad
15:50
that that experience was so. That's like, that's like trauma.
15:53
It was. Trauma trauma was having a bad
15:55
day, though, you know, that's clearly what was going on.
15:57
But like in all the years I've not nothing like that is.
16:00
Ever. Me neither, you know.
16:01
You know what I love at the 2nd Ave.
16:02
Deli? The wallpaper in the bathroom.
16:06
Like if I could like wallpaper anything in my house, like I
16:08
think that would be, I would choose that.
16:10
It's just this, it's like a twal.
16:12
It's like a Jewish deli twal. I probably have AI mean like 12
16:17
is like a it's it's like a like an old school kind of like fancy
16:24
repeating pattern, right, that you might see in like a like a
16:27
Victorian home or something. And artists have had a lot of
16:31
real fun with these, I would say over the last decade.
16:33
There's like a Brooklyn one with like different landmarks in it,
16:37
but I'm I'm pretty sure what the 2nd every Jelly one.
16:39
Maybe we can find a picture of it is like newspaper and just
16:43
like it's like it's like Jewish in your face.
16:45
I probably have one on my phone too if I if I bring it up, but
16:47
it's like Jewish deli 12. I don't know what's the best way
16:51
I would describe. It OK, very cool.
16:53
Well, we want to get into questions and I think it's worth
16:55
noting we wanted you here because these are questions that
16:57
are very relevant to home cooking and you are the author
16:59
of Modern Jewish Baker and of Jewish Comfort Food, Jewish
17:03
Comfort Foods. Yes, modern Jewish.
17:05
Modern Jewish cup of foods. And so we wanted you on to help
17:09
us answer these. So let's get into the first
17:11
question. I will read this first one.
17:13
OK OK. A few years, a few years back I
17:16
used the hodgepodge of leftovers to make brisket for the high
17:19
holidays and my husband said it was the best brisket he ever had
17:23
and has been asking me to remake it ever since.
17:26
Can you help me try to recreate it with a basic recipe with tips
17:29
on what I could add or subtract to try to reverse engineer it?
17:32
I imagine it had things like ketchup, onions, carrots, and
17:35
other random condiments on hand. Leora in Berlin.
17:42
So this feels like a, to me, this feels like the kind of
17:45
question that we do get regularly where it's like, hey,
17:49
like let me give you a minimal amount of information and then
17:52
go. But the good news is we are
17:55
people who are uniquely qualified, I think, to talk
17:57
about brisket formulas. I will just kick it off by
18:02
saying not so long ago I advised a an acquaintance on brisket and
18:12
I was like, you know, at the end of the day, it's like if you're
18:15
low and slow, it's gonna be OK. You know what I mean?
18:18
Like like I was like the the key thing is like plan ahead, give
18:22
yourself the time you need, make it the day before, cool it like
18:25
like there is 1000 formulations. But I was sort of like that is
18:28
fundamental to making a good Jewish brisket to me.
18:32
So that's my first thought that is not that relevant to the
18:35
question. Can we just go into what makes a
18:37
Jewish brisket versus like a Texas brisket or like like this
18:40
is a particular unique, you know, American Jewish concept
18:45
here? So I just like maybe Shannon,
18:46
you have any insights into that? I mean, I think my, what I think
18:51
of as the formula for like a Jewish American brisket, right,
18:53
is that it has like aromatics and that it's sort of braised in
18:57
some sort of liquid. And I think on one hand I'm
19:01
like. Right, as opposed to like a
19:03
barbecued brisket. Or something, right?
19:05
Yep, you're like, you're not, this is not like a dry brine.
19:08
You're not smoking it. You're you're doing it probably
19:10
in the oven at a low temperature with with breathing liquid of
19:14
your choice. And this is a traditionally
19:16
tough cut and you need to slow cook it to make sure that it may
19:20
be nice and tender if you it's not like a nice choice steak.
19:23
This was not like the this was not the meat at the butcher that
19:27
you know, you're spending top dollar on at least back and then
19:30
now. But briskets are kind of
19:31
expensive right now. But this used to be, and this is
19:34
sort of that shared commonality with like that Texas brisket.
19:37
It's like this is that cheaper cut, but you have to do all
19:40
these things to bring out that texture and bring those flavors
19:43
out. But then The thing is, if you do
19:45
it really well, it's it's a phenomenal experience.
19:49
I feel like there's like a, there's sort of like a, a
19:53
rubric, right, for brisket, right?
19:55
Like you're, you're searing it, you're removing it, you're
19:57
adding your aromatics, whatever that is, herbs, whatever.
20:02
Doctor Pepper. Coca-Cola.
20:04
I'm a I'm a soda person myself. I love, I love a good Coca-Cola
20:07
brisket. My husband's very tomato forward
20:09
in his that's where I recipe. I'm more there on the forward
20:12
and then you're adding some, some combination of whatever
20:15
you're braising in, right, Which is like the soda, the tomatoes,
20:18
but maybe it's broth, wine, beer.
20:21
One of my uncles is kind of like a combination of everything.
20:24
So I feel like if you, my initial reaction to this
20:26
question is sort of like, what did you have in your fridge at
20:31
the time? Yeah, but like carrots.
20:33
Yes. Was it like a packet of onion
20:36
soup May? Well, yours in Berlin.
20:39
Good point. So let's so maybe what, what do
20:42
we know about about German, German refrigerators?
20:46
Well, probably. Not buy some beer.
20:47
Buy some beer, Yeah. Beer, right?
20:50
Probably not ketchup. Ketchup's pretty universal.
20:54
I don't know. I don't know, just feels so
20:56
American to me. But she's sad Ketch.
20:58
But she did. She did.
20:59
She did. Yeah, nice jams.
21:01
I'm like, you know, I'm thinking about like German.
21:03
I we have a friend who's been really obsessed with using
21:06
apricot jam in the brisket and using apricot flavors.
21:08
And so I kind of like, maybe there was like some nice, you
21:11
know, jams from the previous season, the German, you know,
21:14
Germans are very kind. Of feel like this, you went like
21:16
sweet, savory and like acid. I feel like those are the three
21:20
things that I think about, yeah. For a brisket, right?
21:23
And I feel like the American version looks like sometimes
21:26
like the chili sauce and the onion soup mix or the soda right
21:28
of some combination or like soy sauce or right like that
21:33
savoriness. Yep, and obviously we need
21:36
onions. We obviously need onions and
21:38
garlic. She said that.
21:38
But I'm just saying like, let's make sure we recognize that
21:42
that's an ingredient that feels critical.
21:45
And what about a potato? Mean she's putting a potato in
21:49
there. I'm not saying for flavor, but
21:51
to cook with it. Can I kind?
21:52
Of hope not. Can I challenge the premise
21:56
because, you know, this is Leora is trying to do what a lot of
21:59
people are trying to do, which is recreate something that they
22:02
liked once. But I think that what I love
22:05
about foods like brisket or some of these foods is that, you
22:08
know, it is what you have on hand.
22:09
And every time it can and should be different.
22:12
And maybe it won't. You won't get that same magic.
22:14
But you never know by looking around and looking in your
22:17
fridge and finding, you know, and throwing in flavor.
22:19
It's just putting what you described as just putting flavor
22:21
in. So what are the flavor inputs?
22:23
And each time, each year can be marked each holiday by a really
22:29
exciting new flavor. You had leftover, you had a
22:31
party and you had all these leftover license.
22:33
Here I am in this German mode here.
22:36
Or you had your pilsners or then you, you know, you had doctor
22:39
brown cell ways leftover you didn't know what to do with and
22:41
you put through them. I just kind of feel like there's
22:43
something exciting about that. And so I know this desire to
22:46
recreate, but like maybe there was like maybe it was also, that
22:49
was a particularly wonderful year and time that you had, you
22:53
know, with your loved one and you're trying to recreate that
22:55
memory, you know? So super beautiful.
22:59
Super beautiful. I think the one thing I'll say
23:03
is like a briskets, a big expensive cut.
23:07
So, you know, not everybody feels as free to just throw it
23:12
in. However, I think Shannon laid it
23:14
out like you sear the thing, you put the aromatics, you put the
23:17
liquid and like, let's go. Sounds to me, Leora, like you
23:21
kind of already know what you did.
23:23
Like I kind of think, you know, and I think maybe what's missing
23:27
is us just saying just do that again and write it down.
23:30
Write it down. Write it down and.
23:32
Look around because there's probably something like that.
23:35
Yeah. Let's get to the next question.
23:37
This is something that I thought would be relevant for you.
23:41
Shannon, you have traveled the country doing Jewish food.
23:46
I know you love connecting with Jewish communities across the
23:48
country. I know that's like something
23:50
that is very meaningful to you. It's very meaningful to us.
23:53
We too have travelled to communities small and large.
23:56
So this question comes from Bonnie in Denver.
23:59
What Jewish delis slash deli inspired restaurants would you
24:04
recommend outside of major urban centers?
24:08
Any in the mid or southwest that you can recommend It would we
24:13
would be remiss if we didn't mention Zingerman's in Ann Arbor
24:18
now in Arbor, Michigan. Now Zingerman's is the world
24:24
world famous institution also has an incredible catalog of
24:29
ship goods that they ship all over the country.
24:32
Bakeshop event space. It's a it's a network of
24:34
businesses, but it is it's a place that celebrates
24:41
craftsmanship and it is not relying on it doesn't feel old
24:45
school. Yeah, you know what I mean.
24:47
Zinger is funny because I, you know, it calls it started as a
24:49
deli and grew into this community and, you know, love me
24:54
Zingermans. It feels more like like what Zay
24:56
bars kind of is, which is more like a gourmet place where you
24:59
can also get sandwiches. I think that's I think that's
25:01
like a gourmet shop now. Fair.
25:03
But they, you know, one of the things they're famous for is
25:05
their their bakery. They also have their own, their
25:07
bake house. And then they make that really
25:09
amazing double crusted rye. Yeah.
25:11
And then you can get these sandwiches and but then you kind
25:13
of eat them outside or now in the kind of cafe.
25:17
So yeah, it doesn't. It's like one of those places it
25:18
doesn't feel deli, but like it definitely has like real deli
25:22
bona fide. Yeah, and you can get a great
25:24
sandwich there, you know. Yeah, and and and Detroit area
25:27
is corned beef focused more than.
25:28
Pastrami. Yes, yes, I didn't know that.
25:30
Yeah. I got another one.
25:33
Wait, no, we gotta go. Around all.
25:36
Right go around. I'm gonna shout out in Houston,
25:38
Yeah. No, you can't take that one.
25:41
That's my favorite. OK.
25:43
Go for it, Shannon. Shannon, you're the guest.
25:45
You're the guest. I mean, to me, the Holy Grail,
25:48
if we can call it Jewish deli. The Holy Grail to me is Kenny
25:51
and Ziggy's right. Is that what you're gonna say?
25:53
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:54
No, I'm gonna say the other one. First of all, I love him so
25:58
much. Ziggy Gruber, we really want to
26:00
get you on this show and we are going to find a way to the next
26:03
time you're in New York, no matter what happens, you're on
26:06
the show. Ziggy Gruber, a legend and the
26:09
deli man himself. And the protagonist from the
26:11
movie Deli Man, which the documentary which was that that
26:13
was 2010 or so. It was a while ago.
26:15
Yeah, yeah. Wait, So any other, well, some
26:18
new, new places, I'm going to say Cleveland.
26:20
I'm thinking one of my new favorite delis and the pickle
26:24
man himself. The one I messaged about the
26:27
Ohio Pickles is Jeremy Umansky's Larder in Cleveland.
26:31
And what really makes larder special is he is a fermentation
26:38
expert. So he's like we're brothers in
26:40
fermentation and he specializes in Koji.
26:43
He even wrote a book called Koji Alchemy, a fantastic book about
26:47
using the mold spore on, you know, rice or barley that's used
26:51
to make misos. These are amino pastes.
26:54
He essentially uses Koji, which is a real, you know, a critical
26:59
piece of Japanese food culture. But he uses that and applies it
27:03
to all the meats and vegetables and every single thing that his
27:06
he serves. And when you add Koji to meats,
27:10
it actually helps them cure faster and he dry ages them much
27:14
quicker. And it brings out all these
27:16
flavors in this extra layer of umami.
27:19
And he's just and he's really, he's kind of a mad scientist.
27:22
And it's more of a sandwich shop.
27:23
It's not quite a deli, but but he his pastrami is unbelievable.
27:28
He serves it on some, some really wonderful.
27:32
I'm pretty sure it is a rye bread.
27:34
I'm trying to reflect back with this homemade fermented
27:39
sauerkraut on it and it's just, and then everything else, every
27:41
pickle his his sour pickle is actually a sour pickled carrot
27:45
lacto fermented. And it's just like everything.
27:48
It's really inventive and it subverts what we think of as
27:50
deli and but everything is a flavor bomb.
27:54
All right, I have one last one, and then we should move on.
27:56
We could talk about this all day.
27:58
My I did not get to go here, but recently my beloved partner
28:02
Shira went to Columbia, Missouri for one night and one night
28:06
only. I have never been to the state
28:08
of Missouri. Can't wait to go one day.
28:11
And the IT was for a Shabbat thing.
28:14
And the caterer for the Shabbat dinner was a new bagel shop in
28:18
town in Columbia called Goldie's Bagels.
28:22
And apparently the catering was outrageously good.
28:25
I do not know what the menu was, but it was very good.
28:27
Jewish, all the traditional this and that.
28:29
That's what I got reported. Whatever that means to you.
28:33
But then the next morning, so Shira met the owner of Goldie's
28:38
and said, you know, I'm married to Gefilteria, whatever.
28:41
Now they knew who we were, which was very cute.
28:44
And then she insisted that she'll go the next day to make
28:48
sure to bring back some bagels for me.
28:50
So I did get to have some bagels and apparently it was a.
28:54
Spot. That's awesome.
28:55
If you can't find a Dolly, look for a good bagel.
28:58
I'm sure it's not that far away. And there's plenty of places we
29:00
have not been to in the Midwest and the Southwest.
29:02
Absolutely. I'm definitely feeling like,
29:04
yeah, a little embarrassed that we didn't have a Southwest.
29:06
So if we miss Southwest, if we miss something, e-mail us
29:09
podcast Ika Filteria Calm. Let us know what we missed, what
29:12
we need to try when we're traveling, when we're taking the
29:15
show on the road. Or invite Jeffrey and Liz to
29:17
come out to your community. You will not regret it.
29:19
Or send us like angry letters that we don't know about, like
29:23
the best deli in Phoenix, you know, because we should know
29:25
that and we don't. So let us know we all all mail
29:29
is good mail so. Let's move on to our third
29:31
question. Third and last.
29:33
This is from Becca in Los Angeles.
29:35
It feels like lactose intolerance is pretty standard
29:39
among American Jews, at least in my experience.
29:42
With the holiday of Shavuot coming up, it feels particularly
29:45
cruel to be focused on dairy foods.
29:48
It just doesn't make sense. Please enlighten me.
29:51
Any tips besides lactate to make it through the holiday?
29:53
Let me just give a little more context to your, which is that
29:56
the the tradition for Shavuot is that you stay up all night
30:00
learning, studying Torah because you are you.
30:04
We received the Torah and the other tradition is eating dairy
30:08
foods, seemingly disconnected traditions.
30:12
I would say. So, Jeffrey, let's just give us
30:16
the dairy ramp we've all been waiting for.
30:18
Well, First off, so one of the things that when I was growing
30:20
up in Jewish day school, as Shannon's kids are now
30:23
experiencing, is you learn all of these explanations for why we
30:26
eat the foods, the dairy foods. I'm not sure.
30:28
Do you know these explanations that your kids are learning?
30:31
I mean, I mean. Do you help them with their
30:33
homework? Do I?
30:36
Yeah, yes. But this has not come up.
30:38
OK. So one of them is like it says
30:40
that what are? They judgmental generally like
30:42
you feel like, are you? Even paying attention, I am.
30:45
OK. You're a great mom fan.
30:48
I swear, yes, don't mean to challenge your your motherhood.
30:54
So we learned that it says, it says in the Torah, the land of
30:57
milk and honey. And so therefore we eat, we have
31:00
the milk because we're getting the Torah, we have milk during
31:02
the holiday. Logical, right?
31:04
Makes sense. And there was another, another
31:07
line like that, that like there's some connection like.
31:09
Like a text reference to dairy that has sparked this tradition
31:15
of eating dairy. Yes, and.
31:18
So they say. So and so one of the things that
31:20
like my, my rant is that I grew up always being given these
31:24
religious explanations for why we do things when almost every
31:29
food tradition comes from a place of there's an abundance of
31:32
something and then you make a holiday around it.
31:34
So Hanukkah, for example, there's an abundance of olive
31:39
oil because it's right around the time when you're first
31:41
pressing the olives. And then you have Olio Nova
31:44
festivals throughout Italy, still the new olive harvest, the
31:48
pressing of the olives. And then, of course, what do you
31:50
do when you have an abundance of things that aren't yet bottled?
31:52
You have a festival where you're lighting oil menorahs and you're
31:56
frying things in oil. So shop a vote.
31:59
I only learned this when I lived and worked on a farm and right
32:03
around Passover time. I actually didn't live on the
32:05
farm at the time, but I was very connected to the farm.
32:07
I'd visit right around Passover time is when the mother, when
32:12
they gave birth, like the, the, the I was working with goats.
32:16
Yeah, goats and the goat. They gave birth to these kids.
32:19
And about six weeks later, which I is around the time Shavuot,
32:23
it's like what, 49 days after you count literally count from
32:26
the beginning of Passover. So around six weeks or so later,
32:29
they wean the kids off the mother's milk so that you can
32:32
start, you know, milking the mothers and starting to make
32:35
cheeses and things like that. And so you have an abundance of
32:38
milk. And so I finally put it
32:41
together. I was like, oh, this is just a
32:44
life cycle of milk production. So of course we'd have a holiday
32:47
centered around cheese. So that would that's why I
32:50
learned, that's how I learned why we do this.
32:52
Wow. OK.
32:56
Yeah. No, no.
32:56
I mean, we've done a lot on this topic so that.
32:59
Was I mean that was amazing. It was great.
33:01
I'm also. You need to answer there the
33:03
question. Now let's get to Becca's
33:04
question. OK, so then what do we do?
33:06
So, so, so Becca is pointing out that lactose intolerance feels
33:11
standard. So it's ironic that there is
33:13
this tradition of eating dairy tips around this other than
33:20
lactate. I feel like this is an easy one.
33:23
I, I don't know, maybe disagree with me.
33:25
Yeah. I feel like just because it's
33:28
dairy, really, it's like there's those juice.
33:31
My husband's one of them are. It's like, it's not a meal if
33:33
there's not meat, right? We're like, just because it's
33:35
dairy doesn't mean everything has to be like a heavy noodle
33:38
Coco, right? With like the sour cream and the
33:40
cottage cheese and the butter. And it doesn't have to be
33:43
blintzes laden with farmer cheese, as much as I like farmer
33:45
cheese. Like I think you could lean into
33:47
it being a vegetable forward meal that has healthier gut
33:53
friendly dairy as part of it without it feeling so right,
33:59
like heavy and burdensome for your digestive tract, right?
34:01
So like if this was me, I'd be like, oh, I want to steer clear
34:04
what I would do, like roasted vegetables over lab nut, right?
34:07
Like lab nut or like Greek yogurt, like like so people who
34:11
are lactose intolerant can handle certain kinds of dairy
34:15
better than others, right? Like like a Greek yogurt, like a
34:19
Parmesan cheese. I don't know the science behind
34:22
it. No, no, no, lactose intolerant,
34:24
of course, like even goat milk. Goat cheese is more friendly for
34:28
your gut than than cow, right? So I wouldn't like make.
34:35
Right. It's like the standard thing is
34:36
like a slice of cheesecake. Yeah.
34:38
And you're like, maybe. Just doesn't feel good.
34:40
That doesn't feel good. I'm not even lactose intolerant,
34:43
I can barely eat cheese. I ate cheesecake a few weeks
34:45
ago. I felt terrible.
34:46
Yeah, I just. It's not the thing.
34:47
Also the American cheesecake. It's so it's all cream cheese,
34:51
like Philadelphia cream cheese. Cheesecake now, so.
34:53
Have AI would say have a European, you know, more of a
34:56
German style cheesecake with the Kevark, you know where like the
34:58
yeah, you know, so it's like it's a little bit lighter or
35:02
with a farmer's cheese, it's much airier.
35:04
It doesn't feel as bad. There's an Israeli style
35:06
cheesecake also made with labna that I've seen, and you can also
35:11
make blintzes without cheese like you can write.
35:14
You can put a little, put a little sour cream on top to
35:16
honor the dairy, but. Or for like a fruit blend spray.
35:22
And dare I say there are many vegans and the people who are
35:26
allergic to dairy and who would now enjoy so many dairy
35:32
alternatives, you know, And you have like all these in at least
35:36
in New York City, we have multiple plant based cheese
35:39
shops where you can get just plant based cheeses.
35:41
Such good plant based. Cheese honestly, I I like, I
35:44
don't love some of the plant based cheeses, but I find like
35:46
the homemade cashew ricotta to be fantastic.
35:50
Make a little ricotta cheesecake.
35:52
So I think that there are some interesting options.
35:53
And I think the rant you expected me to make was that
35:56
because we as American Jews started eating, you know, only
36:01
pasteurized dairy. We stopped eating all that
36:04
cultured dairy that you referenced, Shannon.
36:06
We, we kind of changed our microbiomes, stopped eating all
36:10
these fermented foods. And then therefore we do
36:13
struggle to digest dairy. In fact, I thought that I was
36:16
lactose intolerant for my entire childhood until I moved on to
36:18
that farm and was eating fresh goat dairy that was raw and I
36:21
was, you know, eating non-stop Pickles and sauerkraut and I
36:26
felt great my gut. And so I think some of that
36:29
might also just be like spend some time prepping your your
36:32
microbiome, start drinking kombucha, you know, but.
36:36
Also like how do you work that into the meal, right?
36:38
Like like that, I was like, how can you add some of those lacto
36:42
fermented foods like into the into the menu for that time so
36:47
that it's just like a natural part of it like.
36:50
See that's short term I'm talking.
36:51
I'm here talking like 6 week prep program.
36:55
OK, a pickle. 2nd Passover you start counting the Omer you get
36:59
on a microthyreal. Sorry.
37:01
A pickle a day. Yeah.
37:03
OK, and then get your stomach ready for this.
37:06
I don't know what I was thinking.
37:07
Yeah, no, that's crazy. I love that.
37:09
I also just think, yeah, in general, like one of the lessons
37:13
I think that we've all learned as we have become adult people
37:16
who are as deeply in Jewish food as we are, is that like, we can
37:20
make whatever choices we need to make.
37:22
So we can be in a like in a holiday that is dairy, but it
37:25
doesn't mean we need to like, do the formula of the cheesecake
37:29
and the blintzes and the sour cream.
37:31
Like we can. We can do it how we want to do
37:34
it, like the menus that you're suggesting.
37:36
And that that's great. It doesn't make you less Jewish.
37:39
It doesn't make you, like, not celebrating Shavuot.
37:44
I mean, you, you know, celebrate however you want.
37:47
Study all night. I don't know.
37:49
And eat, like, milk chocolate. I don't know.
37:52
You know what I mean? Like, it's like, whatever I
37:54
happen to chips and guac. Yeah, I don't know how.
37:57
Yeah. I happen to personally love milk
37:59
chocolate. So it's.
38:00
Interesting. OK, we'll ignore that one.
38:02
So that's why, that's why I went there, yeah.
38:04
OK. Well, so Becca, thank you for
38:06
the question and really appreciate that.
38:10
OK, So I do think it's time we've made it to the our kvetch
38:14
kvell share segment. Yeah, our final segment here
38:17
where we were sliding into the final seats at the deli booth.
38:22
So we each get the chance to kvell or fetch about food.
38:26
We've been thinking about something that maybe we ate or
38:28
something we brought to share with each other and we're going
38:30
to set a timer because we can go for too long on this, so for 5
38:33
minutes. And and actually Shannon, we
38:36
also want to invite you if you have anything to share or
38:39
Patrick fell about. I mean, like, have we even met?
38:42
Yeah, of course. We've got something that Patrick
38:44
fell about. Absolutely.
38:45
Yeah. OK, great.
38:46
OK, I'd love to kick it off if I could because I've brought us
38:49
something to eat and maybe we could all use a snack, you know
38:52
what I mean? OK so this is brief.
38:55
I do not need my full time. I brought two really UN really
39:00
unrelated to each other at all foods that I saw and I thought I
39:06
just want to share these on the podcast.
39:08
So the first item I have brought is this bag of matzo granola
39:13
from the farmers market that I saw.
39:16
And I have never seen this before.
39:18
I've heard of making this, but I've certainly never seen it for
39:21
sale, let alone at the Union Square Farmers Market.
39:25
I saw it and I was like, well, I must bring this to Jeffrey on
39:28
the podcast. It was just a couple days ago.
39:30
We are not in Passover season right now, so I was intrigued
39:35
that it's still around, but I was excited to share this and I
39:40
also was like, is this going to be good?
39:42
So we've got a bag. It looks like the matzo has
39:45
really risen to the top here and there are raisins.
39:48
Fold it up to the. Cabot Yep, you can really see
39:52
those pieces of. The chunky pieces, there's also
39:55
some definite flax seeds going on, have sort of gone to the
39:58
bottom. If I was a guessing person I
40:00
would be like someone saw. Some leftover boxes, the matzo
40:04
that someone donated to a food pantry or something and was
40:06
like, we can do something with it.
40:08
Yeah, right. Yeah.
40:09
And I respect that. I do too.
40:11
What's the nut situation? There, there.
40:13
Oh, Jeffrey, no, I cashew. I can do cashew.
40:16
OK. You can do cashews.
40:17
Some nut allergies I. Can't do cashews?
40:19
Oh no. It's OK shit that's why I bought
40:22
2 snacks. I can't do pistachios and me
40:24
need. Hazelnuts.
40:25
I can't do Pistachios. Oh my God, guys.
40:27
All right. That's so sad.
40:28
That's a lot of nuts. That's a lot of some good ones.
40:30
Matzo, Almond, Walnut, Coke, coconut, flaxseed, cashew, olive
40:37
oil, Maple syrup, Raisin, cinnamon, ginger so.
40:41
I can eat around. I can.
40:43
Let's not go into anaphylaxis over the matzo.
40:46
But I will say I agree that this was clearly a like we have extra
40:50
matzo and if it's good, I'm going to use the leftover matzo.
40:53
I still have it mine. I'll try to pass over and do
40:55
this too. Don't.
40:58
Don't mess with yourself there. I mean.
41:03
It's really giving matcha. It did.
41:06
It's very matzo Ford. There's a lot of matcha.
41:09
Listen, I would say this is lovely, but I don't think you
41:13
need to go out of your way to make this.
41:16
I feel like, yeah, I ain't a palate cleanser.
41:19
Well, don't worry, I got it. The other item I brought,
41:23
actually someone brought it to me.
41:25
I've seen these but I haven't chased them.
41:27
These are sour power straws, pickle flavor, gummy sour
41:34
straws, pickle flavor. They were a gift from someone
41:38
else who was like, I saw these and I just really needed you to
41:43
have them. And I was like, well, obviously
41:44
I'm saving them tomorrow. They're bringing to a podcast.
41:47
So I don't know if you know, but I'm a sucker for sour gummy
41:52
things and I actually you put you may not know this because I
41:55
often avoid them because my teeth always hurts so much from
41:58
them, but I love these. These are really pungently
42:01
pickle pickly. They're really pickly.
42:07
What are the yellow? They say wow so we've got green
42:11
and yellow straws, what with like this, you know, crystal
42:14
powder there. What is the are they the same
42:17
flavor? Just.
42:17
Different colors. I don't know.
42:18
I'm trying to figure out. I feel like this.
42:21
Smell is more pickly than the taste, yeah.
42:23
Yeah, it tastes like the Apple ones.
42:25
But it's not pickly. Yeah, I want it to be more
42:31
pickly. I'm not mad about this.
42:33
There's a dill. There's a dill after taste which
42:35
I'm getting which I am liking. Yeah, they're pretty good.
42:38
I am liking the dill after taste.
42:40
Dill is really one of my favorite smells too.
42:41
So yeah, well, in case you're wondering if there's any dill in
42:44
the ingredients list, there's not.
42:46
I'm sure there's natural flavors.
42:48
Yeah, natural flavors. Yeah, there's also wheat in
42:51
here. So anyway, these were made in
42:53
the Netherlands. These are.
42:55
Good, I would buy these. I think these are really good.
42:57
We can eat them all, and these were just my little snacks that
43:01
felt relevant to this community. So that's all I got folks.
43:06
Enjoy. And this was good.
43:08
I'm a fan. OK, I'm gonna go.
43:11
And so I wanted to shake things up.
43:15
I have a Cavill, so I'm usually a fetcher myself, Shannon, But I
43:20
wanted to bring a Cavill, so I wanted to bring a little bit of
43:22
appraisal nod. So you know, family, you know,
43:27
springs with it, layers of complexity and all all of these
43:30
different things. And yet I had like a few like a
43:32
few really sweet family things all related to to deli and
43:37
Jewish food stuff that I just like wanted to share.
43:40
So yesterday, how unusual taking up my phone because yesterday my
43:44
father sent me sorry Sunday, my father sends me a text.
43:48
I took screenshots and he just sent me a picture of a knish
43:54
stand in at a Florida farmers market.
43:58
He lives in Florida. No Brooklyn knish.
44:00
It's a sign at like a little pop up booth at the farmers market.
44:04
So I want to see like what is? What are the?
44:06
Yeah, Shannon wants to zoom in. I'm.
44:08
Like what? But what's the shape?
44:09
Is it round the square? What?
44:10
Happens it says it says Brooklyn Knish and I happen to have been
44:14
in his area of West Coast Florida near he lives near
44:19
Sarasota, Saint Pete's and I had been to the Saint Pete's farmers
44:23
market where I saw the Brooklyn Knish and I wrote, I wrote Saint
44:27
Pete's farmers market. He just sent me that photo and
44:29
then I said I saw the booth there.
44:31
He said Lakewood Ranch so that they go to multiple farmers
44:34
markets, a Brooklyn Knish place and he said, did you try one?
44:37
I said, no, they didn't look that exciting.
44:39
I wasn't like looking for Knish experience on my like 1 Florida
44:43
morning, you know, and he's like agreed.
44:46
And then I asked if you tried 1. He said, and then he wrote to me
44:49
that they looked overcooked and he said my favorite is still
44:52
cherry cheese. Do they still have them in New
44:54
York? And so I told them they have it
44:56
at Yonah Schimmel still. But, and most places are really
44:58
into like the the most Yonah Schimmel's is the classic
45:01
Knishiri knish bakery on the Lower East Side on, on Houston,
45:05
right near the Russian daughters and Katz's.
45:07
And it's been around for over 100 years.
45:09
And and so I said that they still have them there, and he
45:12
wrote. I remember them at Yonah's too.
45:14
The cherry cheese connection was a classic favorite of mine.
45:16
I had them there too, he said. After Katz's lunch, off to Yonah
45:19
Schimmel's for dessert. My gosh.
45:21
He said perfect lunch, corned beef on top, tongue less fat.
45:26
What is this? This is a real boomer dad text.
45:28
Yeah, that's funny. That's my dad's deli order also.
45:31
Really corned. Beef and tongue, yeah.
45:34
Yeah, and, you know, it was just like sweet thing and like that,
45:37
you know, sweet and of him sharing.
45:39
And then he wrote, yeah, so perfect lunch.
45:41
Corned beef or top tongue less fat on seedless rye.
45:45
I disagree with him on that. And a Doctor Browns and then
45:49
when and he wrote top tip, it's not top Tip tongue.
45:53
And then he wrote New York coleslaw and half sours.
45:56
And what's funny about this is that when we posted our episode
46:00
and there was the whole Doctor Brown stuff, my father like
46:02
chimed in and it was just like, his favorites are cream soda and
46:05
black cherry. And I'm like, and I had this
46:08
memory of my dad, Are you kidding me?
46:11
I got into the biggest fight with him once because he came
46:13
home and didn't bring when I was a kid, I liked cream soda and
46:16
root beer. He only came home with two 2
46:19
liters, 2, two liter bottles of Doctor Brown celery.
46:22
And I'm like a 10 year old. I'm like celery soda, this is
46:25
all you brought inside any of the other flavors.
46:28
I was. So I yelled at him.
46:30
And only years later when I finally was introduced to Doctor
46:33
Brown's celery seed soda celery did I, I literally called him up
46:37
and I apologized. I said, dad, I'm so sorry.
46:39
I didn't know. And so he revealed to me and I
46:42
disagree with his order. And it speaks to some of the
46:45
ways we disagree. 1/2 sour pickle.
46:47
No. A full sour pickle, A tongue
46:49
sandwich, A pastrami sandwich. Seedless, right?
46:51
No. Give me the seeds, you know.
46:53
And yet I I owe. Wait, was this a Keller fetch?
46:56
Right now we're. Is life just a mix of Keller
47:01
Fetch? But the point is what I
47:03
appreciate with this he introduced to me not just the
47:06
deli, but strong deli preferences.
47:09
Yeah and I so much of my interest in in all of this stuff
47:14
that we do and talk about comes from like his passion for this
47:17
like this is the text you just sends me a photo of a Brooklyn
47:20
Kinnish stand at the farmers market in Florida and and we
47:23
have a deli back and forth So and so I thought you'd
47:27
appreciate that. So I wanted, I wanted to bring a
47:29
little moment of. Appreciation.
47:31
I love it. And you know what?
47:32
I know having cooked with you for so many years and worked
47:34
with you for so many years that the seeds that your dad planted
47:38
in you have truly grown your, your love for deli sprouts from
47:43
those experiences you had with him.
47:44
So it's nice to reconnect with that.
47:46
Thank you. Thank you.
47:48
So Shannon, what do you got? I had a very.
47:54
I had a. Very nice food thing happened
47:55
today. I went, I drove down to Monmouth
47:58
County, New Jersey to meet with my boss, which sometimes happen
48:02
when it's better place for us to connect.
48:04
And after we're done meeting, I needed to grab some lunch before
48:08
I popped back to pick up my kids and of course, eventually make
48:11
my way here. And I went to this place called
48:14
I don't even remember bell bell something.
48:17
And it's like a big space that's like Co working and just shops
48:21
and restaurants and I'm walking and I want to just find
48:23
something to eat and I some of the cross that means known.
48:26
And I was like, I'm sorry, what? What is Miz known?
48:28
Miz Known is an Israeli pita shop started by chef Adel Shani,
48:34
and they're known for their like, stuffed pita sandwiches.
48:37
It's like very fluffy pita and sort of like kind of innovative
48:42
fillings inside. There's one here in New York
48:44
City in Chelsea Market, and it's also the place where sort of
48:48
like a whole roasted cauliflower was kind of pioneer, right?
48:52
Ayo Shani is known for his very vegetable forward cooking.
48:56
So this was like a meat restaurant.
48:59
The one in New York City is a mix.
49:01
Cuz they're kosher. So some of them are meat
49:03
restaurants and some have, some are not kosher.
49:07
Yeah, there's both non kosher outposts and kosher location.
49:11
So I've eaten at a variety of them, including I've eaten at
49:15
the kosher one in Paris. I've eaten at a number of other
49:17
locations. I've eaten in the one in Chelsea
49:19
Market. And I stumbled upon this kosher
49:20
one and this random kind of like Co working mall weird space in
49:25
New Jersey. And it was actually the best
49:27
Mizzou and I've ever I've ever had.
49:29
And I had a really great like rotisserie chicken, Tatrina
49:33
Zatar pita today just in the middle of my day.
49:36
Very nice. Beautiful Lavikville.
49:38
Love all the positivity today everybody.
49:41
Very unlike me SO. Tell me about it.
49:45
OK. Well, Liz, I think we did it.
49:47
I think we did it. So we want to remind everybody
49:50
again to send your emails to the Gefilteria Instagram or e-mail
49:54
podcast at gefilteria.com or use the form in this episode
49:59
description. We want your questions.
50:03
Thank you so much, Shannon, for joining us.
50:05
Shannon Sarna, what a treat to spend time with you and talk
50:08
Jewish food. We could do it all day.
50:11
This show was produced by Felicia Reich Who?
50:13
It's true. It's from Florida.
50:15
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50:18
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50:22
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50:53
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50:56
This has been a Heed Media podcast.
50:59
Hey listeners, Liz here, so excited to invite you to a
51:02
festival at the Museum of Jewish Heritage in New York City on
51:06
Sunday, May 31st. It's an all day festival called
51:09
Mishbaka Festival, which means family and I will be giving a
51:13
talk all about Eastern European Jewish food ways at 11 AM.
51:18
Tickets to the festival are totally free.
51:21
There's also art exhibits, films, activities, crafts.
51:25
So much going on all day so hope to see you there.
51:28
Join us at the Museum of Jewish Heritage on May 31st.
51:31
You can get tickets at gafilteria.com.