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The 4 Pillars of Trust Every Leader Needs · Not All Business

• 0:00
  Welcome to Not All Business, a podcast by two former CEO's who
• 0:04
  went from competitors to friends.
• 0:06
  I'm Blakely Graham and my Co host is Heather Cooper, and
• 0:09
  we're joined by our producer, Clay Cornell, who we trust
• 0:12
  weekly to keep us from going off the rails.
• 0:15
  And today, Speaking of, we're talking about trust, the
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  invisible force that's either building your team or quietly
• 0:23
  destroying it. So it was my birthday this week.
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  OK, so we got some beautiful flowers from some friends.
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  Don't you love a fresh flower? Always.
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  Yeah, and so my sweet husband, who, by the way, ever since we
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  started dating, has totally nailed every gift ever that he's
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  given me. He's so, so good at it.
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  And so my expectations over the years have gotten pretty high,
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  right? So we sit down with three gifts
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  open. The first one, beautiful, second
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  one, beautiful, perfect. Nailed it.
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  This really cool picture frame, this really cool vase, each
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  thing from a different place we went in Italy on our honeymoon.
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  So very thoughtful, very sweet. The next we open up, it looks
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  like this really cool picture. And I love art and I love that.
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  And I'm like, oh, it's going to be like a really cool piece of
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  art. So open it up.
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  I see the word craft and already I'm getting nervous.
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  The heart rates rising. I am horrible craft person.
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  I am the worst and like oh is this a craft?
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  And then a latch kit. It's worse.
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  Then I peeled back the paper paint by number and I'm like oh
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  he he doesn't know me at all. Like 2 years.
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  Like doesn't know me at all. Flip it over.
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  It is a painting of Lake Como. Like big with the paint by
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  number down to the tiniest little numbers in the tiny.
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  I mean thing is so detailed and so intense.
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  And this is the aspirational part.
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  He's like, I just thought, you know, you have a stressful life,
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  you have stressful job, all the stuff like it'd be really nice.
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  You just bring it out, kind of meditate and paint.
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  And I was like, oh boy, this is like the opposite of like stress
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  relief for me. This is like, I can't even go to
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  those fucking Pinot's palette things where it's like you're
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  supposed to be following and drinking wine.
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  We're having fun. Yeah.
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  And there's no right, the paint and sips and there's no, there's
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  no lines I even have to follow. Like it's a blank canvas as you
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  really can't screw it up. Like you can just.
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  And this is like very detailed, clearly out of the lines.
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  And I tried so hard to be sweet about it.
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  I was like, I love you and I love that that's where you're
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  thinking. I'm like, I'm just a little
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  worried it's not going to be quite stress free for me.
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  I'm worried this is going to put me into like performance mode.
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  And I'm like, there's a good chance it ends up in the garbage
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  like within the first two hours. Like I hope you didn't spend too
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  much on this. OK, first, like let's break it
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  down. That is the sweetest gets ever
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  because it's from your wedding, which just happened this year.
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  It's super recent and he's worried about your stress,
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  right? It is.
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  Yeah, it doesn't know me enough to know but it.
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  Doesn't. Know.
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  You this is not. Going to workout.
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  I know I'm nervous about it, no. Thank goodness we have a husband
• 3:21
  episode. Really.
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  We're going to have to talk about it.
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  It was very sweet and I was like, OK, here's the deal.
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  So I did. I like, try it.
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  I pulled out the stuff and being a good sport.
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  Oh my gosh. You opened it.
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  Oh, totally. Wait.
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  What is she going to do? Like try to put it on eBay.
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  Opened it and I was like, OK, you know what maybe you're right
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  like I was still very positive at this point and I got it out
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  and I'm like there's big letters at the bottom that say Lake Como
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  like a toddler could get it right and I already at the first
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  like line all of a sudden it's like I have like what's the
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  shaking like Parkinson's. It's like I can't too much
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  pressure, my can't start shaking.
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  I'm outside of the lines. He goes, but then there's white
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  where you could cover up like the black and then you put white
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  on top of it and I'm like, then I'm going to get white on the
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  black. Like it was just the whole
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  thing. And he goes, how about this?
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  And this is the really sweet part because I trusted him with
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  being honest about it because I could have lied.
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  And then they had this pressure to carry around and I was like,
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  you know, I can't build this marriage.
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  It's the trust foundation had to do it.
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  So I was like, OK, here's the deal.
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  This is really stressing me out. I gave it a 10 minute try and he
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  goes, what if I what if I painted it for you?
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  And I'm like, now you're talking that's romantic.
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  So he's going to paint it, he's going to de stress himself.
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  And then I hang it on my wall. And then my husband painted me a
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  picture of like Como and I said, sometimes maybe I'll pick it up
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  and like paint white on the side or something.
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  And you know, not get in there, but so that's the plan.
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  Sweet. That's really nice.
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  Is it nice or should I have sucked it up?
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  Like did I do that OK or does that mean should I have just
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  been like this is beautiful. Thank you for the thought.
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  Yes, I'll try it and went on. Or should I have been honest and
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  do you? I don't know.
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  Sorry. Go ahead, Blakely.
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  No, you go ahead, Clay. OK, so my first question is, do
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  you feel like he got the idea that like, hey, this kind of
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  gift actually isn't the kind of gift that I want?
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  Yeah. Or is he learning that right
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  now? He's learning it.
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  Oh no. Like while he's listening to the
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  show? Yes.
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  No, we, no, I mean it, it I, it, I'm not that good of an actress.
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  Like he definitely, Yeah, like he got it.
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  He's like, well, they can't all be winners.
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  I was like, no, I just, I love the thought.
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  But then I was like, what an asshole.
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  Like, should I have just been really nice and grateful about
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  it 'cause the intention was so good, but then I felt like I
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  wanted to be honest. I mean, I think you could
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  address all the sweet things like all the thought like you
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  just did, and then be honest in a maybe a comical kind of way,
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  which you, I'm sure you did so. I don't know if we're.
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  Starting that stuff. You guys are newlyweds.
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  You don't know, like I would not know if I'm trying to think
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  would I know if Scott would enjoy a paint by number?
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  I don't, you know, we've been married for 20 years.
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  I I say one way to find out, one way to find out, buy one for.
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  Christmas, Yeah. We'll see how he reacts.
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  No. And I just want to say shout out
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  to Nick for buying a gift where he was like, hey, I want to like
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  Blakely had said. I want to address the fact that
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  I know your job is really stressful.
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  And of course, like Blakely said again, you can't win them all.
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  But I really like that. He at the very end was like, I
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  am gonna paint this for you. I am gonna take this into my own
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  hands. He's gonna be painting with it.
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  And then like you said, you're gonna join him for whatever
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  little bit you want. And then right, keep going.
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  And it'll be like, it'll be like actually this kind of gift of
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  love that keeps happening like in.
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  Your house, the relationship building over it.
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  Yeah, I love it. Mm.
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  Hmm. Or that was a great thing.
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  Or he'll halfway through be like, hey, I can't do this.
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  And you'll be like, that's okay. Let's give it to Blakely.
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  Let's give it to Blakely. I will say one thing.
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  I will say I I did feel a little bit bad and because I know as
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  art was in the right place, but I did feel like it was important
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  to be vulnerable, to build that trust and to just say, you know
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  what? This isn't going to be like any
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  other relationship I've had. And we're going to continue to
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  get to know each other and we're going to make it fun because
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  it's so, so important. Trust foundation of any
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  relationship, not just marital, but friends and Co workers.
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  And so we have a expert today on the show who's going to teach us
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  all about the importance of trust in leadership and at work.
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  Yeah, likely. You want to introduce our guest.
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  Our guest today is Carolyn Keyes, a former C-Suite
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  executive turned thought partner and executive coach.
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  With a deep understanding of human behavior and leadership
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  dynamics. She works with executives,
• 8:08
  founders and creative industry professionals to navigate
• 8:11
  complexity, scale their organizations, and achieve
• 8:14
  lasting personal and professional growth.
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  But here's the full circle moment.
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  In our very first episode of Not All Business, we interviewed
• 8:23
  Jamie Cole, who began a life changing journey prompted by the
• 8:27
  words of her executive coach. And that coach was also my life
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  changing coach, and that is Carolyn Keyes.
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  She's here to talk about trust, not as a soft skill, but as the
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  invisible currency that fuels collaboration, creativity and
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  human connection. Carolyn, welcome to Not All
• 8:47
  Business. Everyone is looking for an
• 8:52
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• 8:56
  fun format. Well, there's one podcast I want
• 8:59
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• 9:02
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• 9:04
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• 9:08
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• 9:12
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• 9:15
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• 9:30
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• 9:32
  Real frameworks, real ROI Clay, that's return on investment.
• 9:38
  So if you're leading a business and you want to grow, go
• 9:41
  subscribe to your Audience's Waiting wherever you listen to
• 9:44
  podcasts. Back to the show.
• 9:51
  Hi. Hi.
• 9:54
  Finally, all of the all of the hype and we have you in the
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  flesh. Thank you so much for being
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  here. I'm excited to be here.
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  I've been watching every show, so there you go.
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  It's nice to be on the other side now.
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  Yeah, exactly. How would you rate Heather and
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  her husband and the story that her just shared?
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  Like was that like good trust building or did she like you can
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  knock him down? Is that like good for human
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  connection? Are they going to make it,
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  Carolyn? Are they going to make?
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  It. Okay, I'll put my crystal ball.
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  Yes, I would say so because you did it in a very loving way.
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  And like he said every time he's, you know, made it great.
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  But I think the most telling thing is when he offered to
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  paint it that you said, how amazing would that be to be able
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  to look at a painting that he actually created for me that's
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  representative of like Como and where we spent time, you know, I
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  think on your honeymoon, correct?
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  Yeah. Marriage.
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  Yeah, we got married there and then honeymoon.
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  Yeah. Which is fantastic.
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  So it wasn't just like, oh, I hate it, get rid of it, that's a
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  bigger problem. Yeah.
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  So. To kick it off, I kind of want
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  to go back to that intro where I was quoting you.
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  Like you call trust the invisible currency of human
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  connection. And I know we do often think of
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  trust as, I don't know if I would call it a soft skill, but
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  it's like this. It's like this thing that just
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  kind of sits there. And I didn't even actually maybe
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  necessarily think of it as a skill.
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  I just know it's something that can be made or broken, but you
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  actually say it's strategic. And so I'm just curious what you
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  mean by that. Yeah, I mean, trust is really
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  fundamental to everything in life.
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  If you think about it, if you have high trust, you have high
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  creativity, innovation, you feel very safe.
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  When you have low trust, you have very low innovation,
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  creativity, you don't feel safe. And so to me, and it's the
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  foundational principle for everything, whether it's
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  relationships, work, you know, our Co workers, friends, family,
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  whomever. And you know, I, I have to ask
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  the question because usually people say I either trust you or
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  don't trust you or I trust situation or I don't.
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  So if I were to ask each of you, what would be your definition of
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  trust? Like what would be your
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  definition? For me, trust is, oh, there's so
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  many ways I could define it, but the most important kind of trust
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  to me is the one where I feel like I can I go last.
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  This is the most high pressure question I've ever had.
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  OK, Heather, a hot seat. I've never been asked to define
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  trust. And it's OK to say Pat.
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  It is really feeling right. I can't pass.
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  I can't pass. I feel so defeating.
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  No, I, I, it's, it's for me. It's complete and total
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  vulnerability. Putting my feelings, my success,
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  whatever in the hands of someone else.
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  Like trusting that. Like handing over the control,
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  Handing over power, I think. I think for me it's like
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  reliable more on the reliability side.
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  Like I I have a picture of you and you when I put something in
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  your sorry, clay, I hit the mic. But when I put something in your
• 13:39
  hands, I kind of trust that you will fit that picture I have of
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  you. Like you will reliably deliver
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  whatever it could be, love back to me.
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  It could be a deliverable back to me.
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  But it it's like I trust that you fit my picture, which is
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  actually a really weird way to say it.
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  Maybe that doesn't even make sense.
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  Clay let's Clay is a millennial and I feel like they're very in
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  tune to these soft skills. They lot of pressure now them
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  they the whole generation. The whole generation.
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  And I speak for every millennial.
• 14:15
  Yeah. Oh.
• 14:16
  Come on. OK, I got it.
• 14:19
  I guess I would the idea that I have is if when I close my eyes,
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  I trust that the same thing is happening when my eyes are open
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  and when I turn my back, if I have there's if I have like an
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  example of like a person and I turn away, I trust that the same
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  I can idealize. I feel safe.
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  I understand what is happening behind me as I do in front of
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  me. Like I have some sense of like
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  safety or like understanding or faith or belief that it's a good
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  way to what can what is happening in the relationships
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  that I have that I trust, you know, I trust people.
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  I have some type of understanding that what I see in
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  front of me and when I turn away, I know what's happening.
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  I feel safe or like I feel like I can actually turn around.
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  I can close my eyes. Does that make sense?
• 15:14
  Yeah, I mean, This is why trust is so tricky.
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  Though if you think about it, every person has a little bit
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  different definition, which is true for them, right?
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  So if I if I give you a definition that's very kind of
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  boiled down, it's really choosing to risk making
• 15:31
  something you value vulnerable to another person's actions.
• 15:36
  Yeah, choosing. Can you?
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  Say that what? You all touched on it.
• 15:40
  Yeah. So trust is choosing to make
• 15:43
  something you value vulnerable to another person's actions.
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  It's that vulnerability of allowing someone in because if
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  you think of distrust, it's protecting that which you value
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  because you assess it's not safe with the other person.
• 16:02
  That's a great definition it. Is I feel like it's was closest
• 16:05
  to mine. I feel like I won that round.
• 16:07
  Next question, I'm just kidding. I'm totally joking.
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  We're only going to do AQ and A today.
• 16:15
  I I don't know. No, it feels right.
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  It helped when you said too. If you look at the opposite,
• 16:20
  like mistrust, it helps define it too.
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  But there has to be. And I go back to, like you said,
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  different definitions. But and I and I remember from
• 16:32
  our training, what was that 10 years ago?
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  Like the pillars of trust. Like I think about my
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  relationships with my children and I trust them to do certain
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  things and I don't trust them to do other things.
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  And it's a really weird concept because I'm like, OK, but we
• 16:49
  have trust, but we don't have like all the trust.
• 16:54
  So is that do I have trust with my kids or do I not have trust?
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  Or is it situational trust? Or is there different kinds of
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  trust? I don't know.
• 17:04
  That, that's a great question. Because again, if, if I think if
• 17:07
  I break down trust and I'll get to what you just said in a
• 17:10
  minute, Blakely, there are really 4 distinctions.
• 17:13
  Because again, if you say I either trust you or I don't
• 17:16
  trust you, that you're talking about a continuum.
• 17:19
  You may trust your kids to do certain things.
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  You don't trust them to do other things.
• 17:25
  And that doesn't mean you don't inherently trust them.
• 17:28
  So there's four ways you can look at it.
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  If there's sincerity, you know, it's, it's kind of what Clay was
• 17:35
  talking about. If I, if I do, I tell you
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  something and then tell something a little different,
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  somebody else a little different version and then tell somebody
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  else something a little different.
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  If those three get together, they're going to assess that I'm
• 17:47
  not sincere because I've got a different version for everybody
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  and there's reliability. In other words, if you make a
• 17:55
  request and I say, yes, I'm going to do it, I've made a
• 17:58
  promise. And therefore if I don't follow
• 18:01
  through, it can be assessed as not being reliable.
• 18:04
  And so the third one, that is competence.
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  And how many times have you in your career maybe met somebody
• 18:11
  said, Oh yeah, you know, I'm totally trained on this or I can
• 18:14
  do this. They really want the job, right?
• 18:16
  I have no problem. And then they get in the
• 18:18
  position and all of a sudden you're like, well, they should.
• 18:21
  They said they knew how to do this and they don't.
• 18:23
  There's a training issue there where they may be over promised
• 18:27
  or had a little bit more in their ego about how great they
• 18:31
  were doing this and they actually need training on it
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  because they never truly, they're not competent.
• 18:36
  They have the standards you've set or not the standards they
• 18:39
  can achieve. And then there's care, you know,
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  do I take into consideration what I need along with what
• 18:47
  others need? And sometimes people push back
• 18:50
  on that and say, well, if I have to do a riff or layoffs,
• 18:53
  whatever, you know, obviously I have to do it.
• 18:58
  And I just have to tell them that, you know, they're going to
• 19:01
  be let go. And to me, the care means that,
• 19:04
  yes, that's going to happen. But how you show up and how you
• 19:07
  do it can demonstrate care and can actually enhance trust.
• 19:12
  I love that because then it's you don't have to throw the baby
• 19:15
  out with the bathwater. It's it's OK to trust someone on
• 19:18
  one level but not another. Instead of just being like,
• 19:21
  Nope, I don't trust this person off.
• 19:23
  You know, in writing it off completely.
• 19:25
  Sorry, likely. What we're going to say, I would
• 19:27
  also say I think it also really depends on the individual.
• 19:30
  Like I might value certain pillars of trust more than other
• 19:35
  pillars of trust, like reliability and competence.
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  To me, are I, they outweigh maybe the sincerity pillar a
• 19:45
  little bit. And so I can see how I might
• 19:48
  have friction with some employees versus other employees
• 19:52
  or colleagues based on what kind of trust we've built and maybe
• 19:56
  kind of what is, is not there. And Carolyn, I have to tell you,
• 20:01
  so we have sticky situations that our listeners write in
• 20:05
  about and for us to talk about and.
• 20:09
  I did not send you any ahead of time.
• 20:12
  They didn't actually think we were going to necessarily get
• 20:14
  into sticky situations today. But you just literally, I had
• 20:19
  one that I thought might apply and you you just actually used
• 20:23
  it as your example. So I have to read it because I'm
• 20:25
  I'm dying. It's, it's here.
• 20:29
  It is actually have two. I hired someone who interviewed
• 20:33
  incredibly well, but they can't actually do what they said they
• 20:37
  could do. So like, work isn't getting
• 20:39
  done, clients are noticing and I'm covering for them constantly
• 20:42
  and they genuinely seem to believe they're capable.
• 20:46
  How do I address this without destroying their confidence or
• 20:49
  creating like a toxic dynamic? Yeah, it's this is great because
• 20:54
  I love these. Sticky situations.
• 20:57
  It's great because honestly, you can, I mean, the person could
• 21:01
  just say, the leader could just say, hey, I'm, you know, I, I
• 21:04
  don't trust them. They're out and, and you know,
• 21:06
  next thing they know they're on a PIP.
• 21:08
  And what I look at is, OK, what I'm hearing is the person may
• 21:12
  care, they may very much be enthusiastic and care about what
• 21:16
  they're doing, but they've got a competence issue.
• 21:19
  They probably have a reliability issue if they're not contacting
• 21:22
  clients or are falling down on that and sincerity.
• 21:27
  Because obviously they told that person who had hired them that
• 21:31
  they could do it. And then they may have said to
• 21:33
  somebody else, you know, they're not walking their talk.
• 21:37
  And so for me as a leader, what I would do is sit that person
• 21:40
  down and say, you know, I wouldn't say, hey, I don't trust
• 21:45
  you in these three domains. In this one, you're OK because,
• 21:47
  of course, they have no distinctions, right?
• 21:50
  But what I would do is start with actual examples from each
• 21:55
  area and to say, you know, this is what you promised in the
• 21:59
  interview. This is how you showed up.
• 22:01
  And here are the things that I'm noticing.
• 22:03
  And competence is probably the easiest one to rebuild because
• 22:08
  maybe the person needs training. Maybe the person came into the
• 22:11
  company and they're were hardly trained at all, right?
• 22:14
  They just threw them in. And maybe there's a certain
• 22:17
  system that they do. So maybe it's a competence
• 22:20
  issue. They need a little more time
• 22:21
  with that, the reliability. If they're missing deadlines,
• 22:25
  they're saying yes to things and they're not following through.
• 22:28
  They need examples and then you need to let them know how are we
• 22:31
  going to, you know, I want to hear from you how you're going
• 22:35
  to adjust and fix this because this is something that is not
• 22:39
  acceptable. But also it's it's not people
• 22:43
  are not going to trust you because they're going to you
• 22:46
  keep missing deadlines. And then how are you going to go
• 22:49
  about making sure that you get these deadlines handled?
• 22:53
  Or you say, no, I can't do that, but here's what I could do
• 22:57
  instead of just saying yes to everything because we are a
• 22:59
  society, especially in business, somebody makes a request for
• 23:03
  like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can do that without even looking at
• 23:06
  workloads or outside people, right.
• 23:08
  That maybe need to be a part of this whole thing.
• 23:11
  So that's another thing. And then the real sincerity
• 23:15
  part, you know, that's a little trickier because people a lot of
• 23:18
  times feel they're being sincere and then they, you know, you're
• 23:22
  finding that they're just not they're they're not being
• 23:25
  sincere. And you got to actually address
• 23:27
  it. You know, you say you do this,
• 23:29
  you didn't, you didn't do that. Sorry, I didn't mean interrupt.
• 23:32
  That train, no, I'm interrupting the, the training piece because
• 23:35
  I really got stuck on that because I think I've done a bad
• 23:38
  job of really engaging training at the level I need to because I
• 23:45
  just get frustrated because in my mind, I think you should know
• 23:47
  how to do this. I have sent you links to this
• 23:51
  training video. I have done this, but instead of
• 23:54
  really connecting to follow up and say, were you able to watch
• 23:56
  that video? Did you have any questions?
• 23:59
  Because I get so impatient and I'm like, why am I at this level
• 24:02
  still having to come down? And it feels like micromanaging,
• 24:04
  which I don't like to do. But then I just, I start to
• 24:08
  question the, the integrity. Like I switched to the fact that
• 24:11
  it's like, OK, they're saying they care.
• 24:13
  I've given them this opportunity.
• 24:14
  I'm still seeing mistakes. What's the problem?
• 24:17
  And so then I think, oh, they're scamming me or they don't really
• 24:19
  want to work or they don't really care.
• 24:20
  Instead of skipping over like, well, maybe this is new to them.
• 24:24
  The things that they do know how to do, are they doing that well?
• 24:27
  They see this gap. And I think I rushed to that too
• 24:29
  quickly. I think giving them that chance
• 24:32
  to say like and ask about the training, be a little more
• 24:34
  specific and maybe hand hold a little bit through it and say,
• 24:37
  hey, let's screen share for a minute.
• 24:38
  Let's walk you through any questions.
• 24:40
  And then if it's still not coming back, I'm skipping over
• 24:43
  the sincerity part. I'm judging.
• 24:46
  I'm starting to lose trust on that sincerity level because I'm
• 24:49
  going to the reliability or the competence issue and assuming
• 24:53
  they should know it because I've given them this.
• 24:54
  Why have they not responded? Well, and I would say too, I
• 24:59
  think it's to hold them. I believe in accountability and
• 25:03
  you're giving them the things they need and yet it's still not
• 25:06
  happening. So I do agree there is some
• 25:09
  maybe on your part that would be good to do check insurance.
• 25:12
  But on the other hand, maybe the request is to them that you want
• 25:15
  them to check in and what are they learning from this?
• 25:18
  What have they discovered? What do they find that's
• 25:21
  difficult that they may need more of an in person explanation
• 25:25
  versus a link and that kind of thing where it's not on you
• 25:29
  micromanaging them, but it's on them taking ownership and
• 25:33
  saying, you know, I, I need a little more help.
• 25:36
  You know, Heather, do you have time up, up, you know, put date
• 25:40
  in your calendar, that type of thing.
• 25:41
  Yeah, here's this link. Go do this talk.
• 25:45
  Let's talk next week. And you tell me any gaps in your
• 25:47
  understanding still? So it's like they're still
• 25:48
  running that because they do also run the risk of doing it
• 25:51
  feeling like I'm doing everything for everyone all the
• 25:53
  time kind of thing and so. Well, and that doesn't sit well
• 25:58
  because what happens is then people can sometimes get
• 26:01
  resigned. Like she'll do it.
• 26:02
  I don't have to worry about it, She'll just do it.
• 26:04
  She'll cover it. She'll catch my mistake.
• 26:06
  She'll fall through. You know what made me just break
• 26:09
  out in hives? It was when you said it's bad to
• 26:12
  say yes. Like I say yes to everything.
• 26:15
  And I think about just the podcast and we're in kind of
• 26:18
  startup mode, right? This is episode, I think this is
• 26:21
  episode 14/14/15 and we're learning so much new stuff.
• 26:28
  It's like a lot of creativity. I feel like we have a lot of
• 26:31
  trust with each other to like be safe and learn all this stuff
• 26:34
  and try on these things. Yet I'm like, yeah, I can do
• 26:37
  that, Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I can do that because I
• 26:39
  think I know intuitively I can't, I.
• 26:42
  Will I like I've? Got the grit to figure out
• 26:45
  figure it out, but I then. Are you about to confront me
• 26:51
  like live on air that I'm not doing enough?
• 26:53
  I can feel it. I know I'm not.
• 26:55
  Doing enough. This is about me.
• 26:56
  I'm saying yes to everything and I'm volunteering to everything.
• 27:00
  And then I deliver about 30% of what in my head I feel like I've
• 27:06
  promised to deliver and meet. So my inbox is getting more
• 27:10
  stressful, like more this is, this is therapy, but I never
• 27:14
  really thought about those yeses.
• 27:16
  I will do that. I will do that.
• 27:18
  And then even though I can do it, but I'm not doing it and I'm
• 27:21
  not delivering. It is actually potentially an
• 27:25
  erosion of trust. And now I'm scared.
• 27:27
  You guys, I, I'm just not going to say yes anymore.
• 27:32
  Well, we're fucked, all right. This will be our last.
• 27:34
  Episode of not all business no, but I just I've been it's been
• 27:39
  great. Yeah.
• 27:40
  So Clay has a like sorry to interrupt the show for one
• 27:44
  minute. We have a very important piece
• 27:46
  of business. Clay has this like need.
• 27:50
  I have a responsibility. Just responsibility.
• 27:54
  Maybe you should explain the responsibility, Clay.
• 27:56
  Yeah. So on our show, Carolyn, we have
• 27:59
  a no acronyms rule, but it's really a no acronyms without
• 28:03
  explaining what the acronyms is. The acronym.
• 28:06
  Is because we want to basically not gatekeep information and
• 28:10
  bring everybody along with us. So you used I noticed one
• 28:13
  acronym but. We had two.
• 28:15
  Blakely said. Okay, Blakely says that there's
• 28:17
  two. So the one that I noticed is
• 28:19
  Pip, which we have mentioned on the show because I've been
• 28:21
  threatened by. That one right now.
• 28:24
  Likely to be put on a PIP, which is a personal improvement plan.
• 28:29
  Performance improvement Performance.
• 28:32
  Improvement plan and Clay. What happens when you don't
• 28:37
  perform after being put on a pip is you might be a part of a riff
• 28:42
  and there you go. Riff is a reduction in force, so
• 28:47
  essentially A layoff. So just like, make sure you get
• 28:51
  your pip going so you're not part of the riff that's about to
• 28:53
  go. Yeah, we're about to have a riff
• 28:55
  because Blakely's going to stop working on the podcast, so.
• 28:58
  We're going to, I'm just, I'm just trying to maybe more
• 29:01
  importantly, maybe we need to get to the repair and the whole
• 29:04
  trust situation. But I say yes, too much and I
• 29:06
  know it and and I never thought about it as hurting other
• 29:11
  people. I always think of it as hurting
• 29:13
  me because I'm taking on too much and I'm like, Oh, I that's
• 29:17
  actually could be damaging your team too, right?
• 29:21
  So. You mean if you don't?
• 29:22
  Get to some degree. You mean if you don't get to it,
• 29:24
  it hurts the team? Or because you're not giving
• 29:26
  them an opportunity to contribute, it hurts them.
• 29:29
  Well, well, that's true. That's a little bit different, I
• 29:31
  think. I think that is also an issue,
• 29:33
  but I think. It's I'm good with it about.
• 29:36
  An erosion of trust and reliability, right?
• 29:39
  Like I'm eroding some reliability.
• 29:41
  Yeah. I think it's what I heard so.
• 29:44
  But listen, nowadays the greatest thing you'll hear from
• 29:49
  people is I'm overwhelmed, right?
• 29:51
  That's been going on for a while.
• 29:52
  I'm overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed.
• 29:54
  Overwhelmed is you're not setting boundaries, you're
• 29:58
  saying yes to too many things. And I would invite your
• 30:01
  listeners to look at if they're feeling overwhelmed, what are
• 30:05
  they saying yes to that Maybe they should say no or I can't do
• 30:09
  that. But here's what I could do or to
• 30:11
  just say, let me check my schedule before I give you a yes
• 30:15
  or no. I've got it, you know, because
• 30:17
  I've got 15 things on my plate. So when you're the auto, yes
• 30:22
  though is hard. Well, it's also, it's really
• 30:25
  easy to say yes in the moment because you are excited and
• 30:29
  you're energized and you're like, yes, I can do that.
• 30:30
  Yes, I'll, I'll do that. And then when it comes down to
• 30:34
  it, if you look back, you've said yes too much.
• 30:38
  But you want to keep trust. So the best thing you could do,
• 30:41
  if you say that and realize, you know, you say yes, I'm totally
• 30:45
  into it. Great.
• 30:46
  Then you get home and are like, oh, that's never going to
• 30:48
  happen. Then the best thing you could do
• 30:50
  to restore trust is go back to that person and say, look, I
• 30:53
  know I said yes, but I can't do it.
• 30:56
  Here's what I could do for you. Or I just can't do it.
• 30:59
  Or, you know, come back to me some other time.
• 31:02
  Again, the person might be taken aback for a second, but you will
• 31:07
  maintain trust because you're being sincere, you're being
• 31:09
  reliable with them. Like to say, I won't be able to
• 31:12
  accomplish this. And you care.
• 31:14
  You're showing care. And so those three things would
• 31:18
  be huge for somebody. So I'd much rather hear, oh, you
• 31:23
  were excited, but now you can't do it, or I expect you to do it
• 31:26
  and then you don't do it. Yeah, whenever you do it.
• 31:29
  Half assed, right? Yeah, and that's not.
• 31:33
  Cool. So that happens all the time
• 31:35
  with board work because you can be there.
• 31:37
  You're at the board meeting and you're excited and you believe
• 31:38
  in the cause and you want to do that.
• 31:40
  And then you leave that quarterly meeting and you've got
• 31:42
  these things on and then it's like the next one's coming up
• 31:44
  and you're like, oh, shit, I didn't do everything I need to
• 31:47
  do. And then you feel bad because
• 31:48
  you've dropped the ball in your heart or you're, you know, it's,
• 31:51
  it's something. And then saying no to that kind
• 31:55
  of stuff is hard. Like Blakely, you did that
• 31:56
  recently, like just before we kind of got started, you stepped
• 32:00
  back from a major volunteer position that you.
• 32:03
  Were having. But that was a really good thing
• 32:06
  for your health to like go. And I know it was really hard
• 32:09
  for you, but you're like, I just can't do all of this anymore.
• 32:13
  It was taking a toll on my family.
• 32:16
  And what I love about this whole conversation is I really loathe
• 32:23
  personally feeling like the victim in something.
• 32:27
  And I realize, I mean, I don't even think I've ever had this
• 32:31
  aha moment by every time I'm like, I'm too busy.
• 32:34
  I'm so busy. I'm so stressed out.
• 32:36
  I'm so overwhelmed. I am basically playing a a
• 32:39
  victim role in that situation. What I heard, Carolyn, is like,
• 32:43
  you need to take ownership of that.
• 32:46
  Like you have the power to build boundaries and create trust with
• 32:51
  maybe a little bit more difficult conversation because
• 32:54
  maybe there's some nose in there, but there's also some
• 32:57
  hush nose with myself and owning up to the fact that I am only
• 33:01
  busy because I choose to be busy.
• 33:03
  And it is eroding relationships and trust with my kids, with my
• 33:08
  colleagues, with my friends. And I've, I've never flipped it
• 33:12
  like that. And now I'm just going to hear
• 33:16
  everyone say busy and I'm going to be like, no, that's a choice.
• 33:20
  That's a choice. So love it.
• 33:25
  It it is a choice. And also I always, you know,
• 33:28
  going back, I remember on the first episode with Jamie when
• 33:33
  you were talking and saying, yeah, we had this jargon stuff.
• 33:37
  But I'm going to give you 1 because I, yes, for those of us
• 33:42
  that have yes, as an auto response then and you, you know,
• 33:47
  maybe don't want to go back and have to, you know, reframe
• 33:50
  everything and etcetera. Just remember this.
• 33:53
  If anything, just say I can't tell you right now, but I can
• 33:58
  get back to you by tomorrow at 5:00 PM or I can get back to you
• 34:03
  in 1/2 hour or I can get back to you.
• 34:06
  And if it's a big enough thing a week from now at, you know, next
• 34:10
  Friday at 5:00 PM mountain time or whatever.
• 34:14
  So the whole point is it's a commit to commit.
• 34:17
  And that way it's not an auto yes.
• 34:19
  It's kind of the practice of training yourself to take a step
• 34:23
  back and just say, I can't tell you yes, in this moment, but I
• 34:26
  can let you know my answer, you know, 10 minutes a week, a
• 34:30
  month, depending on the project. But it comes with the date and
• 34:33
  time when you will get back to that person.
• 34:35
  And in order to keep trust, you have to get back to that person
• 34:39
  by that time with an answer. I love that.
• 34:43
  And I also heard earlier you say something like the the way to
• 34:49
  say no gracefully. And it was like you get back on
• 34:53
  your commit to your commit and you know the answer has to be
• 34:56
  no. You hate to be that person that
• 34:58
  says no, but you have to start having some better boundaries of
• 35:02
  protecting your time. So I heard you say something
• 35:06
  like, I would be so excited to do that, but it's not right now.
• 35:12
  It's not possible right now. And should we just not over
• 35:16
  explain? Like do you have a graceful way
• 35:18
  to say that? But not be like, it's because I
• 35:22
  have to do these 50 things or these things and my aunt is sick
• 35:26
  and this is happening. Like can we just say no?
• 35:30
  Like how do we say no, Carolyn, after we commit to commit?
• 35:35
  Well, let me ask, let me ask you have who has ever heard a best
• 35:41
  know from somebody? Have any of you ever heard a
• 35:44
  know from somebody that you were like, OK, And it was it was good
• 35:49
  because I, I have a way to say it, but I'd like to hear I.
• 35:52
  My, my father's best friend is this remarkable woman in town.
• 35:58
  Like she's just, she does everything, charity, service,
• 36:01
  work. She was there for my father like
• 36:04
  every week while he was battling cancer.
• 36:08
  She got me a like, she's just this incredible woman and she's
• 36:11
  so talented. I, I hope she's not listening.
• 36:14
  I don't know if she'll think this is, she'll think it's
• 36:16
  funny. She's so talented at connecting
• 36:20
  people, being part of every organization, but not walking
• 36:25
  away with one single action item.
• 36:28
  And she's the most beloved woman in this town.
• 36:30
  And to me, she is saying no somehow, but we don't know how
• 36:36
  she's saying no. And so I hope whatever you say,
• 36:39
  like I've always wanted to be her.
• 36:40
  I don't want any action items. The problem is the most beloved
• 36:43
  person I can tell you exactly what she's saying.
• 36:45
  She's saying, you know who would be really good at that?
• 36:48
  Yes, that's what she. He's.
• 36:49
  Doing Blakely Graham, like I've never seen anybody better at
• 36:53
  executing that than Blakely. You know who's actually the top
• 36:56
  person? You know who I need to put you
• 36:57
  in contact with this Clay Carnell, He is whatever.
• 37:00
  And like she's like the connector.
• 37:02
  She's the delegate. She's the let's figure out,
• 37:05
  let's have the vision of who can do what.
• 37:07
  And there that also takes work, by the way, it does take work to
• 37:11
  understand the best flow of things.
• 37:13
  And it can be a mistake to jump in and say you're going to do it
• 37:16
  because often you aren't the very best person to do it.
• 37:18
  You're willing, but you might might not be the most competent
• 37:20
  person. I think the best to answer your
• 37:23
  question, Carolyn, a really good no.
• 37:26
  I've heard from an employee was I'm happy to tackle that.
• 37:31
  I do have these five other things that are currently on my
• 37:35
  plate. Is there, what's the priority?
• 37:38
  Like do you see this as something that needs to take
• 37:40
  precedence or is this something that we can put out 2-3 weeks?
• 37:43
  Like what's your timeline and when I can get that back to you?
• 37:45
  So it's not a hard no. It's just a, hey, you need to
• 37:48
  understand where this request is coming from.
• 37:50
  And with a priority, which I think is really helpful because
• 37:53
  as a boss, we can assume that we know what's on their plate, but
• 37:57
  we're not, we're not living that life every day.
• 37:59
  So it's important for employees to communicate the request,
• 38:02
  their willingness, but also set it in the context of their
• 38:05
  current. Due date.
• 38:07
  Something's got to. Give that's key, that's a that's
• 38:09
  a beautiful way to do it. So that's that absolutely gives
• 38:14
  you the example of everything on their plate and what's a
• 38:18
  priority, what's not, because it may be that that is not the top
• 38:21
  priority when you remember all the OR you hear all the other
• 38:24
  things and, and the other way too, to say no.
• 38:28
  And again, I get this pushback all the time with people like,
• 38:31
  well, I can't say no to my boss. I can never say no to my boss.
• 38:35
  And I'm like, well, right there is a good start because
• 38:38
  sometimes you have to say no. What if they're asking you to do
• 38:43
  something that's out of your competence or out of out of
• 38:47
  sincerity, let's say? What if they ask you to do
• 38:49
  something illegal? I mean, it can happen sometimes.
• 38:53
  Are you going to say yes because you're afraid to say no if you
• 38:56
  have that kind of fear? And that's a driver.
• 38:58
  Our our moods are drivers and emotions for how we show up and
• 39:03
  what actions we take. So for me, I always say it's
• 39:06
  better to say no in shorter, sweeter.
• 39:07
  You're not going to go no, absolutely not.
• 39:09
  I'm not going to do it. But like my sister the other day
• 39:13
  said no to her boss about something.
• 39:16
  And but what she said was no. That's something that I don't
• 39:21
  feel that I would be the best at kind of going back to what you,
• 39:24
  you know, said Blakely about that person.
• 39:27
  But you know, I would be the best at that.
• 39:29
  And I I just it's a no for me, you know, and she took it well.
• 39:36
  But you guys were ex CE OS like what if somebody came in and
• 39:40
  said no to you on a project? I mean, they must have over the
• 39:43
  course of your time. How did you respond to it?
• 39:47
  Fired him. You don't.
• 39:50
  Give a shit about this company. Terminated for what other?
• 39:53
  Three letter acronym. No, Unravelist.
• 39:57
  Yeah, I think. Oh, let me think.
• 40:00
  I don't know. That I got Nos as much as people
• 40:03
  not they'll be like, uh huh, and then you get shit delivery
• 40:08
  right. And so if I've ever gotten the
• 40:11
  hard no. I've got a hard no.
• 40:13
  Once I got a hard no once from a woman who said, I'll be honest,
• 40:19
  this just feels like it's outside of my job description of
• 40:22
  why I was hired. And I feel like I'm being asked
• 40:25
  to do this because I can do it, but not because I'm supposed to
• 40:28
  are being compensated to do it. So if there's like a special
• 40:32
  project with compensation attached to it or you want me to
• 40:36
  spend time doing that, but it really feels over and above what
• 40:39
  I was hired for. I had a ton of respect for that
• 40:41
  because it was true. It was one of those, hey, this
• 40:44
  person can do it all. Let's just keep throwing stuff
• 40:46
  at them. And it got away from their
• 40:48
  initial hiring role and the compensation that was
• 40:52
  commensurate with that. So I had respect for the way
• 40:55
  they handled that. Yeah, and that's huge.
• 40:58
  Can I ask though a follow up which is was there a short term
• 41:01
  consequence for that person because they said no that they
• 41:05
  had to endure before you got to the good trust?
• 41:09
  It was that's a good question. It was a frustration because it
• 41:12
  was urgent and I just really needed them to.
• 41:15
  I was looking at it like, can you just help me out here?
• 41:18
  Can we just be a team player? Yes, I know that's not your job
• 41:20
  description, but I need this done by Friday and you're the
• 41:22
  person I trust to do it. Can you just?
• 41:25
  But they had reached their limit because I had probably done that
• 41:27
  to them one too many times. And it was like, look enough
• 41:31
  with this. And so it was frustrating and I
• 41:33
  didn't like it, but it did force me to take a step back, take a
• 41:37
  breath. And we did end up kind of
• 41:39
  maneuvering the role over the next month to include to be more
• 41:43
  aligned with what was actually being done.
• 41:45
  So, yeah, and you use trust. I trust this person to do that
• 41:48
  because you probably trusted them in all four domains, right?
• 41:52
  You trusted their reliability, sincerity, their competence and
• 41:55
  their care. So.
• 41:57
  But it got to a better place. It did because then I trusted
• 42:02
  their sincerity to be honest with moving forward if we ever
• 42:06
  were getting out of whack again or out of line like they had
• 42:09
  every little time. You can show that both ways.
• 42:12
  By the way, I think more than I could respect it because I if I
• 42:15
  respond bonded with too bad, do this or you're fired, then that
• 42:18
  breaks down the trust. But because I said, I hear you,
• 42:22
  I receive that. Let me step back, think about it
• 42:24
  for a minute and then came back with a plan.
• 42:26
  Then she had trust with me next time to be able to voice that
• 42:29
  opinion and not and be in a safe space.
• 42:31
  Just like, OK, I'm going to say how I really feel and Heather's
• 42:33
  not going to fly off the handle and fire me.
• 42:35
  She's going to actually listen. And so it really builds that for
• 42:39
  several years after. Yeah, so that's a huge, that's a
• 42:44
  huge gift actually in a lot of ways.
• 42:47
  But but people hate to say no because they hate conflict.
• 42:50
  They hate it. They really chew their arms off.
• 42:53
  And and so but but to me, I mean, that's one of the things,
• 42:58
  you know, we talk about all the time is how do you handle
• 43:02
  conflict? How do you get comfortable?
• 43:04
  Not that you're going to love it ever, but get comfortable.
• 43:07
  And because it falls in the trust anytime you know it has to
• 43:11
  be, you want to maintain that ability for people to trust you.
• 43:15
  Part of that means being involved in conflict, sometimes
• 43:17
  when that goes against one of these distinctions.
• 43:21
  So what do you think about you said trust fall into trust.
• 43:23
  It made me think of the trust falls that you see on like TV
• 43:26
  and stuff. Thank.
• 43:27
  You. I don't trust anyone for a trust
• 43:30
  fall. Have you ever done it?
• 43:32
  No, because it's ridiculous. So you don't trust anyone?
• 43:36
  No, I haven't either. No, I'm AI worry about their
• 43:39
  safety. It's like Trixie in the bathtub.
• 43:42
  I do not need to worry about a hair dryer falling into the
• 43:45
  bathtub. I do not need to worry about my
• 43:47
  150 lbs breaking someone's wrist.
• 43:50
  No. Trust Fall No.
• 43:54
  But I want to know Carolyn. I want to know if Carolyn thinks
• 43:58
  there's any value in those types of team.
• 44:00
  Building. I no, it a trust fall.
• 44:06
  I am antitrust fall. A lot of that reason because
• 44:11
  also people don't pay attention and they're like, yeah, yeah,
• 44:15
  I'm ready. And then they're looking over
• 44:16
  here and the person like now we're going to the hospital.
• 44:19
  It's ruining the whole training. And I think there was a video I
• 44:23
  used for one of my trainings where they were making fun of
• 44:25
  trust falls and the person was like, OK, just climb up there on
• 44:28
  top of the desk and I'll catch you.
• 44:30
  And you know, the whole thing's a disaster.
• 44:32
  But I think there's a lot of things you can't do to build
• 44:35
  trust and with colleagues and you know, even family, etcetera.
• 44:39
  And part of that is conversation, communication.
• 44:43
  The other part is I do think that sometimes when we do these
• 44:47
  type of outdoor things together, where we're having to work
• 44:50
  together as a team, team, we're going to have to have
• 44:52
  conversation. We're going to have to trust
• 44:55
  that this person's really competent in this and this
• 44:57
  person's this that gets people together and talking.
• 45:01
  But to do a trust fall, I think wasn't that like a 2000s thing?
• 45:04
  Yeah, it's. Like at the office, I think I
• 45:06
  saw like every person had to do that.
• 45:11
  We did an escape room once. It wasn't great.
• 45:13
  This game is stressful and you're in a very small area.
• 45:17
  I think the time clock is tough to build trust.
• 45:21
  Like if you've got a ticking time bomb in an escape room, I
• 45:24
  think it actually kind of erodes some trust.
• 45:28
  Well, but that's a great point though, because how long does it
• 45:30
  take to build trust? Is there a?
• 45:33
  Is there research about that? I think it's an individual
• 45:36
  thing, but there also is how how you're wired.
• 45:39
  Like for me, I trust until you show me you, I can't trust you.
• 45:44
  For other people, they don't trust until you prove that
• 45:50
  you're trustworthy. And I think part of that is, is
• 45:53
  part of that is how you're wired.
• 45:55
  You know, the self-awareness piece of who you are and how
• 45:59
  you're wired. So if I were to ask you,
• 46:00
  Heather, do you trust 1st until somebody?
• 46:04
  Yeah. I trust until you until you show
• 46:06
  me you can't be trusted. Right.
• 46:08
  How about you, Blakely? That's exactly right.
• 46:10
  I'm very trust, like I trust everyone, give everyone the
• 46:14
  benefit of the doubt. But when it's gone, I it's
• 46:17
  probably a little slower for me to get it back.
• 46:20
  I hold on to some stuff, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 46:25
  And how about you, Clay? Oh I love that I'm being asked
• 46:28
  every question. This is fun.
• 46:30
  It's very situational for me. I think in general with people I
• 46:34
  meet I'm pretty trustworthy, but I noticed that in certain
• 46:38
  situations I can be the complete opposite where I need people to
• 46:42
  prove it. They're trustworthy, yeah.
• 46:45
  I think that's linked to childhood stuff too, like trauma
• 46:48
  or if you were burned one time and then your body kind of
• 46:50
  remembers that and you're you don't have that trust.
• 46:53
  Yeah, because I know quite a few people that say I would not
• 46:55
  trust, I don't trust. Somebody has to earn my trust.
• 46:58
  And that's a much longer process because again, everybody's
• 47:02
  different. You know, you do one thing and
• 47:05
  you know, you break trust. So it's a longer process.
• 47:07
  But if you know that about yourself, that helps them to be
• 47:10
  able to say maybe it's OK to let it go a little, a little bit.
• 47:14
  If this person the the first two months proves that you know so
• 47:18
  far they're reliable, maybe I can go ahead and let them trust
• 47:21
  them a bit more than I would normally do in my time frame of.
• 47:24
  Trust, right? It's like Blakely.
• 47:27
  You can go below eight mile. You can.
• 47:30
  I don't, I don't even know what that is.
• 47:33
  I know. Yeah.
• 47:34
  Yeah. OK.
• 47:35
  OK. So this is one of those
• 47:37
  conversations that I, I could literally have a master class on
• 47:43
  and not get enough. Like I need more and more and
• 47:45
  more. But I know we are running out of
• 47:47
  time. But I did say that I had one
• 47:50
  sticky situation. Oh, no, I have 2.
• 47:52
  And so I do actually have a second and do love them so much,
• 47:55
  Carolyn. And this one is about maybe not
• 47:58
  as much about trust, but about the conversation that needs to
• 48:02
  happen that you just touched on. And I think that's going to be a
• 48:04
  different episode, but I'm going to let you answer it, and then
• 48:07
  we'll make a decision if we need to have another episode.
• 48:10
  My teammate goes completely silent, No responses to Slack
• 48:15
  emails unanswered for days, sometimes misses deadlines with
• 48:18
  no explanation. And when I finally confront
• 48:21
  them, they act like everything's fine.
• 48:23
  I'm totally overreacting. That sounds like like
• 48:25
  gaslighting to me, right? This has happened before.
• 48:28
  I'm not sure how to prevent it from happening again or even
• 48:32
  what the issue is. And so this is not a boss
• 48:35
  employee situation. This is like a peer-to-peer.
• 48:38
  It sounds to me like this person's pissed off at this
• 48:40
  person. Like how do you get that out in
• 48:43
  the air? What's what's the answer here?
• 48:46
  Well, this is not a Slack conversation.
• 48:49
  This is an actual in person conversation and whether it's
• 48:53
  Zoom or even better if you can meet in person, but that's not
• 48:56
  always doable because people work across the globe sometimes.
• 48:59
  So to me, it requires sitting down and having some examples
• 49:04
  again because the first thing somebody says is what are you
• 49:07
  talking about? That never happens, right?
• 49:09
  But if you have clear things, here's what I'm noticing.
• 49:12
  I sent out, you know, 14 emails over the last two weeks and I
• 49:16
  got zero response. Here are, you know, here's some
• 49:20
  3 examples of it. I would like to hear from you
• 49:24
  what is going on for you. The fact that you're not
• 49:27
  answering Slack, you're not answering my emails and you,
• 49:32
  every time I bring it up, you keep saying everything's OK, but
• 49:36
  what you're saying is not what's showing up.
• 49:39
  So it's out of sincerity, right? OK.
• 49:44
  What I'm hearing is we have a lot more to learn.
• 49:46
  We kind of picked away a little bit about trust and how that
• 49:49
  goes into communication. Sounds like we have another
• 49:52
  topic in our future for difficult conversations and I
• 49:55
  will never we can't let this episode.
• 49:59
  End. Without my favorite Carolyn
• 50:03
  quote, and you're going to have to fix me if I use it at home
• 50:06
  all the time. I'm like right conversation,
• 50:09
  wrong time or wrong time, right conversation.
• 50:12
  And it's been so helpful for me over the years to be like, we're
• 50:17
  saying the right things. It's the wrong time.
• 50:19
  Like reading the room. And I just want to thank you for
• 50:22
  that bit of wisdom, Carolyn. It has been so helpful to me.
• 50:27
  The right conversation in the wrong mood is the wrong
• 50:29
  conversation, and I just used that a few hours ago.
• 50:34
  Somebody quote. I knew I wasn't getting it
• 50:36
  right. Works for family, friends, you
• 50:39
  know, colleagues, leaders you got to remember.
• 50:42
  And that, again, moods are such huge drivers for how we take
• 50:46
  action anything we do. Yeah, that.
• 50:49
  That's why I always go back to the right conversation.
• 50:51
  Wrong mood is the wrong conversation.
• 50:53
  It's so good. I love if I know there's a
• 50:55
  difficult conversation. I love the hey, let's go grab a
• 50:57
  coffee. Like we'll get out of the
• 50:59
  office, switch the mood, switch the thing like sit down, just
• 51:02
  let's have the conversation we need to have without all the
• 51:04
  extra. Things.
• 51:06
  Yeah, that's the. Absolutely.
• 51:09
  This is wonderful, and did you want to say anything else,
• 51:11
  Blakely? No, no.
• 51:12
  I'm going to let you take us home, Heather.
• 51:14
  Can I say one thing though? Sure.
• 51:16
  OK, so there's a book called The Thin Book of Trust by Charles
• 51:20
  Feldman. It's a fantastic book for any of
• 51:22
  your listeners that are interested in learning more
• 51:24
  about trust. He's he wrote a great book, but
• 51:27
  The Thin Book of Trust by Charles Feldman, awesome thin
• 51:30
  book. Of trust by trust, yeah.
• 51:32
  In the. Show now it's for.
• 51:34
  Sure. By Charles Feldman.
• 51:36
  Thin book of trust? Is it a thin book?
• 51:38
  It's a thin book. Yeah, good.
• 51:40
  I like thin Book though. OK, I didn't know if it was.
• 51:46
  I don't know. No, it's 500 trees.
• 51:47
  It's war and peace of trust. The thin book of trust.
• 51:50
  Right, All right, well, it's just been even better than I
• 51:56
  expected. And then I knew it was going to
• 51:58
  be awesome. So thank you for being here,
• 51:59
  Carolyn. Thank you.
• 52:01
  Wrote down 4 pillars of trust, sincerity, reliability,
• 52:05
  competence, care. Completely changed the whole
• 52:09
  framework for trust for me because it's multi dimensional
• 52:13
  and I never really thought about it like that.
• 52:15
  But there's several layers to it and it's not all all in one
• 52:20
  thing to either have or not have.
• 52:23
  You can have it in layers. So tons to think about.
• 52:26
  Thank you so much for sharing with us.
• 52:28
  Before we let you go today, we ask all of our guests to answer
• 52:32
  one question and we answer it to ourselves, which is what brought
• 52:36
  a smile to your face this week. So I'll, I'll start the smiles
• 52:39
  of the week. OK.
• 52:41
  Yeah, Smiles of the week. So my smile of the week actually
• 52:44
  happened at 5:52 this morning. I get these texts before 6:00 AM
• 52:51
  always from my close friend in Texas.
• 52:54
  So I kind of hear him hear them in her like accent and she, her
• 52:58
  text was something I'm going to paraphrase because I don't have
• 53:00
  it in front of me right now. Please paraphrase.
• 53:02
  It in the accent, yeah. And yeah, well, I don't know
• 53:04
  that I got a good text. Is that?
• 53:06
  Is that a text you do? She said, Girl, I've been
• 53:10
  catching up on your Not All Business podcast and I was
• 53:13
  laughing so hard. The fact that you didn't know
• 53:15
  what See you next Tuesday meant, Oh my gosh, she's like, I failed
• 53:20
  you as a friend failed you. And I'm like, I just appreciate
• 53:26
  it that she took responsibility for teaching me.
• 53:28
  What? See you next Tuesday night.
• 53:30
  Oh. I love it.
• 53:32
  It was good. And that's how she sounds.
• 53:33
  She actually sounds a lot different and she's going to
• 53:35
  listen to this and I'm going to get a text tomorrow morning at
• 53:38
  5:31 AM and she's going to be, I don't sound like that.
• 53:42
  No, you sound like Reese Witherspoon.
• 53:44
  That was good. That was really good.
• 53:46
  That was really good. I like it.
• 53:48
  All right, who's next? I'll go, I had last night a fun.
• 53:52
  So I have several friends that have November 18th birthdays and
• 53:56
  I think it's because it's like 9 months from Valentine's.
• 54:00
  Day in the world. Well, it's like, what's wrong
• 54:02
  with Scorpio in the world? What?
• 54:03
  What is that? What's wrong with Scorpios?
• 54:06
  Well, my son is a Scorpio, my brother's a Scorpio.
• 54:09
  They're hard relationships. I love them so much, but they're
• 54:12
  intense and I love you, Heather. Do you realize what you're just
• 54:15
  saying? Right now, yes I am.
• 54:17
  I love all you Scorpios. Yeah, sounds like it.
• 54:20
  We're going to have issues. OK.
• 54:22
  Anyway, they brought flesh flowers.
• 54:25
  We had this dinner. So we had three of us that were
• 54:28
  birthdays, November 18th. So we try to get together there
• 54:30
  every year for our birthday. And we just laughed.
• 54:32
  We sat at a dinner table, laughed for three hours.
• 54:36
  Just like guttural laughing, kind of the laughter through
• 54:39
  tears thing. It was why my soul needed that.
• 54:42
  It was really good. And they like me even though I'm
• 54:45
  a Scorpio, so. I I love Scorpios.
• 54:48
  I'm sorry I got I would cut that if clay.
• 54:51
  Clay never cuts anything. I asked to cut whatever.
• 54:55
  Because it's clickbait. God no.
• 54:58
  Come on, we're trying to get people to listen and watch this
• 55:00
  show. Whatever you say is a goldmine.
• 55:03
  Come on. Yeah, it is.
• 55:05
  Just put my foot in it. I'll get, I'll get out of the
• 55:08
  way so that we can end on Carolyn's, which I'm sure will
• 55:11
  be amazing. Mine's really simple.
• 55:13
  I got together with two friends. We sat in the corner of this
• 55:16
  like old German bar and we drank beer and ate potato pancakes.
• 55:22
  Well, I had vegetarian Schnitzel, which was honestly
• 55:26
  never good. So don't order that.
• 55:30
  What I say about the Tofurkey Don't try to eat fake meat meant
• 55:35
  to be like meat. But it didn't matter what I ate
• 55:38
  or what I drank because I was having just the best time with
• 55:40
  my friends. And yeah, for a few hours we
• 55:42
  just basically, I just had the best time laughing.
• 55:47
  This is awesome, so fun. So good.
• 55:49
  It was much needed. Yeah, it's all about connection,
• 55:52
  right? Yeah.
• 55:54
  Two people I trust, yeah. Yes, to people you trust.
• 55:57
  Right. Exactly.
• 55:59
  Well, mine is very simple. I love this time of year.
• 56:03
  And so I actually came home after a trip and went nuts and
• 56:09
  took out all my holiday stuff. And I put my tree off at
• 56:14
  everything. And as I was taking the
• 56:17
  ornaments out, I remembered I've got actually porcelain trees.
• 56:22
  A porcelain tree that is 41 years old and, and some of my
• 56:28
  ornaments I've had since I was a kid and some were my parents.
• 56:32
  So as I was pulling these ornaments out, it just brought
• 56:34
  back so many memories, which I know Christmas can be very or
• 56:38
  holidays can be stressful for people, but for me there's a lot
• 56:41
  of happy memories and it brought a smile to my face like
• 56:43
  everything because it just really lifted my spirits so.
• 56:48
  That's beautiful. I love that you've held onto
• 56:50
  those ornaments for so long. Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
• 56:54
  I've got my little paint by number, actually horse, but I
• 56:59
  painted by numbers when I was six years old.
• 57:02
  I have it on my tree. I was going to say the ornaments
• 57:05
  I've held onto from my parents are like the roll out cookies
• 57:09
  that tasted like salt. Like the and then you painted
• 57:12
  them and shellacked them. I have so many of those they
• 57:16
  don't even make it on my tree anymore.
• 57:17
  I have a special box first. Like my little handprint?
• 57:20
  Did you have one with your little handprint?
• 57:21
  In it I. Think we have Eldon's handprint,
• 57:24
  but our we have a couple things for Eldon like first Christmas
• 57:28
  and then Lula's like where's mine?
• 57:29
  I'm like second child, we love you too.
• 57:33
  Sorry. Yeah, second child.
• 57:37
  My mom did this wonderful thing every year.
• 57:39
  She had each of the kids record from like they were babies where
• 57:43
  it was just gurgle, gurgle like those recording ornaments and
• 57:47
  then up through they were 18 years old and they had to give
• 57:50
  an order. Yes.
• 57:51
  So I have like 36 of these. Well, she has all of them, most
• 57:54
  of them, but I have some of them.
• 57:56
  And it's like, hi, Mama. Merry Christmas.
• 57:59
  That's Kate. I'm, you know, 2 years old.
• 58:01
  And then I have like, yeah, whatever.
• 58:03
  Merry Christmas. I got to go see your grandma
• 58:05
  with my friends, you know? But it's just like every stage
• 58:07
  of their life recorded super few.
• 58:10
  That's a gift. Wow, that's so cool.
• 58:13
  So. It's it's like a little
• 58:15
  recording device and you just. Yeah, it's an ornament.
• 58:18
  And then you just press play and they're like record.
• 58:21
  And then you record on it and then you cover it back up and.
• 58:24
  That's so cool. You should do it.
• 58:27
  It really is. It's a gift, so.
• 58:30
  Well, Carolyn, thank you so much for coming on.
• 58:33
  This was one of the most educational shows we have had
• 58:36
  and I just appreciate you so much, so much.
• 58:40
  Me too. Well, thank you for inviting me.
• 58:42
  It's been great and I loved it and I'm very passionate about
• 58:45
  the topic, so it's fun for me, yeah.
• 58:49
  So where can people get a hold of you?
• 58:51
  Let's make sure that we attack that in the show notes as well.
• 58:54
  Oh yeah, I'm at they can do Carolyn at velocity dot plus.
• 58:59
  OK. Or my website velocity dot plus.
• 59:03
  Awesome. So thank you.
• 59:05
  I appreciate it and I appreciate all of you and your
• 59:07
  conversations. They're great.
• 59:09
  Thank you. Thanks.
• 59:10
  See you next Tuesday, OK. And Thursday still works OK.
• 59:17
  And also if you are not a subscriber yet, please hit
• 59:20
  subscribe on YouTube. It helps us reach more people.
• 59:23
  We really appreciate your following.