Latest / The b.reathe Blueprint Podcast / Caregiving, Boundaries and Sustainable Performance
Transcript
- Katie Harvey: Welcome to the b.reathe Conversations. This series explores how people operate as responsibility, ambition and pressure grow over time. They're not burnout stories and they're not about fixing anything. They're calm, honest conversations about awareness, capacity and what helps performance last. Today is a slightly different episode and I'm welcoming a very special fellow podcaster to b.reathe Conversations. Today I'm joined by Natalie. Thank you so much for being here. How are you? The Dementia Dialogues: I am good. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me on. Katie Harvey: We're very happy that you agree to it. Why don't we start with a little bit about you and your background on what you're doing now. The Dementia Dialogues: Yes, sure. So I am Natalie Carter. Firstly, a mum of two boys that are quickly growing up scarily. I'm 19 and 14. Wife and a business owner. So we have a property portfolio. And also I am a podcast host, as you mentioned, on the Dementia Dialogues, which is my passion project. Yeah. Katie Harvey: And you've been through many different phases of life now and you're kind of at a point where you are getting to do the thing that you're passionate about and the thing that really does mean the most to you. But let's rewind back to starting the businesses. did that all come about? The Dementia Dialogues: Right, so, ooh right, so that far back, okay. So Anthony has his own business, so that's probably where the businesses first started and I was predominantly stay-at-home mum with some part-time that worked around the family and ⁓ Anthony's business. then, ⁓ as I the boys are older now, so as they've got a little bit older and we started to acquire properties and became landlords, we made the decision that I would take a bigger role in the property business and started doing some refurbishments and such. that was back in 2023, 24. And then in the past two years, as we've systemized the property business and Anthony's taken sort of a bit of a step back in his construction business, meaning is more time for the property. I've been able then to follow my passion, which is to do something in the world of dementia, because that's personal to me. My nan had dementia, she passed away 10 years ago, ⁓ that was a really difficult time for all of us as an extended family. ⁓ I've always known that I wanted to do something in that area. yeah, into the property side. We sort of were thinking about possibly doing something like a dementia village. They have one in Holland. So yeah, it was sort of, well, how do I navigate that? How do I, you know, create that? How do I take that vision and make it reality? And it was suggested by one of the trainers on Property Entrepreneur, which I am a member, to start a podcast. And that was started in 2024 and he's absolutely doing amazing. back in July last year, I just thought at the moment, this is where I'm meant to be. giving a voice that are ⁓ starting that dementia journey or part way through it as a caregiver or a professional. And letting know what services are out there and letting other caregivers their story for caregivers to hear to make them feel less alone. ⁓ yeah, at the moment that's me in a nutshell and where I'm meant to be. ⁓ Katie Harvey: I love that and I've seen your sort of development of Brave over the dementia dialogues as well and where it started to where it is now. think it's incredible how much you've put into it and the passion that you can clearly see come through it as well. I know people close to me that have featured on it and they have honestly felt so seen and heard for the first time probably ever and you've made a real difference to that community. And we're gonna come back to that later on, because I do wanna talk about that a lot more. But you mentioned that you were a full-time mum for a while, and that you said you had some part-time jobs. I think that a full-time mum is a full-time job as well. And I can imagine that was quite difficult in fun, loving, wouldn't change for the world, but probably quite difficult at moments. And actually I haven't had anyone yet speak about how they... The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, it is. really is. ⁓ Katie Harvey: sort of managed that and how they dealt with that sort of life and it can be quite lonely as well. The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, absolutely. think the completely staying at home, I am a people person naturally anyway. So, yeah, totally agree with that. Staying at home for, like you say, not changing it for the world. And I gladly take those days back now because trying get a conversation at a teenager's is very difficult. ⁓ But yeah, it can be quite isolating. And as I say, like as a people person anyway. Katie Harvey: You The Dementia Dialogues: It probably hits you double whammy. coming home and not to talk about work ⁓ naturally. not wanting to talk about business because that's his cut off and let's leave work behind sort of thing. And me not having any company as such apart from a babbling baby all day, want to have that conversation. That's quite difficult. You've got to find that balance, you know. But then having the part-time work as ⁓ Like Oliver started going to nursery and I got some time back. That was really good for me. Good for my mental health, for sure. Just to have that adult interaction. and I think that comes through actually in the podcast as well. When I talked to caregivers about not them, not just focusing on being a caregiver, get out and have some time for yourself as well. It's important for everybody, everybody, whatever aspect. If you're a business owner, like don't just surround yourself with your business. Make sure you have something. else for yourself you know sport or crocheting going to the pub for a beer whatever that might be you need something else for sure. Katie Harvey: Yeah, absolutely. did you, obviously there's no handbook for parenting. There's no sort of like guide. You kind of get thrown into it and you're there working it out. You have people support, but was there a moment that you sort of realised I need to get back out there or was it something that you knew from the start? How did that journey progress? The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, I think I knew, I probably knew from the beginning that I was like, I'm not built just to stay at home. Like I say, I'm a people person, I need to be out and about. So that was always going to happen, but I didn't know what job that would be, what I'd do. Because it was predominantly like it needed to fit around what Anthony was doing with the business. Cause the business was in very much in the early stages at that point. And the children, like everything had to work around them. it's. school holidays, you know, that's that's a big factor for people. yeah, I had to work around something like that, but I knew that I had to get back and do something. So for me, going and working in a school was amazing, like the best thing ever. And I ended up actually at the boys school. So that was that was ⁓ a great thing to be to be part of as well, really. Katie Harvey: Amazing, I'm glad that you got to have the sort of social interaction that you needed as a mum as well. And then obviously as they started getting older and didn't need to lean on you as much, you started getting more involved with the business. did that come around? Because I can't imagine it just like one day you were like, yep, I'm in the business, we're doing this. ⁓ imagine it was kind of accidental in ways. ⁓ The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah. Yeah. You know what? It's actually, it was actually quite frightening as in the realization that you've been there for the boys all that time and they need you for everything to start letting go a little bit and figure out where you can let go, where you want to let go. And it's sort of when that was happening, when I was realizing that, that, you know, They don't want to do as much with you anymore and you're not the cool mum anymore. They don't want to hold your hand and things like that. They want to walk to school themselves. had the conversation with Anthony and went, actually, there's this realisation of what ⁓ I going to do ⁓ they go? They're my whole life. Everything I do ⁓ for them. Don't get wrong, I probably do too much still now, as in putting the things out for breakfast in the morning before Morgan goes to work. ⁓ making sure his towel's nice and warm before he goes in the shower. Yes, I am that mother. But having that conversation with Anthony and going, I need to be open and honest here. I'm a bit frightened about where I fit because that's always been my role. That's the main hat that I've always had on. And it was sort of Anthony's suggestion of, why don't you take a look at coming on property entrepreneur? Because he'd done... a year with property entrepreneur at that point. And not being business minded at all at that point. was like, absolutely not for me. No, not business minded. That's your department. I'm a mum. I don't do things like that, you know. But reluctantly went for the three days for one of the summer retreats and absolutely loved it. Like the community, like I said, being a people person as well actually was probably the best place for me to be thrown in a room full of people like that. The only downside was that imposter syndrome of being around business people. But actually I thought, no, hang on, I can do this. ⁓ I do something here and let's just learn as we go. And I sort of took that mentality then of, I'm just going to go in with an open mind and I don't have to know it all sort of thing. I don't have to have all the answers. Yeah. And just said, right, no, okay, we'll do this. We'll buy some more properties and... I'll take control and I'll, you know, take control of the refurb and deal with the trades, et cetera. Being the people person, great, great role for me to be in, doing the management of it and stuff. So yeah, that's, that's how that came about really. And here we are. ⁓ Katie Harvey: We were on that three days together and we didn't even realise until a year later. The Dementia Dialogues: ⁓ we didn't realise we were in the same room at all. And now look at us. Katie Harvey: I know. Obviously, that was quite a shift from what you were used to. And ⁓ mentioned the imposter syndrome there, which is a very common feeling for lot of people. You are naturally quite open-minded and well, ⁓ seen you as naturally open-minded. I don't know if that's developed over time. I don't know if that's always been with you. But was there any ⁓ where you really had to kind of like... lock in and think, okay, no, I can do this, I really need to believe in myself and where you were really struggling. The Dementia Dialogues: Blinking out, that is a good question. I imposter syndrome from that point actually being on the three days was really difficult to shift. And ⁓ taken work with a life coach to work on me for that. And ⁓ I've got know because I think it's amazing to work on yourself. It's definitely still a work in progress. but I'm definitely a more confident person now and I'm more of the mindset of, why couldn't I do that? know, why thinking about the negative? ⁓ than what could go wrong, let's look at what actually what could go right. Like when the thought, when it was suggested about doing the podcast, you might remember it was like, I can't do that. I can't be a podcast host. And then it was like, hang on. Why not? Let's just try it and see what's the worst that could happen. And probably the best thing I've ever done. And that's probably where I've locked in actually with the podcast and ⁓ gone for leather with it. Having the along the way is absolutely crucial. think ⁓ someone just you, know, shouting for you in your corner. Telling that it can do it is a big thing. ⁓ But yeah, I think that's where I've locked in and gone, no, right, come on, we can do it. Yeah, that's a big one. Katie Harvey: And do you think part of that is being a people person and knowing what you personally went through, you want to be able to support others and that drives you more to be able to go, no, I can do this because I'm not just doing this for me, I'm doing this for other people as well. The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, I'm definitely a person of service. I'm definitely a giver in that way. And yeah, that's the whole purpose behind the podcast is I don't want people, we didn't know any or three quarters of what I know now. And every conversation that have on the podcast, I'm learning all the time and I wouldn't want anybody to go through what we went through knowing. what services are out there, how you can better communicate with somebody with dementia about different behaviors, you know, that it's just an unmet need. There's just so much, it's a minefield. And if we can just, we, I, just reach one person that it makes a difference for, gives them confidence, them with the service that they actually need so they're not at, you know, crisis point and then trying to search for help, then ⁓ That's job done. So yeah, think you're right. I think that's what it is. It's the fact that it's not for me personally, it's for others that sort of push that imposter syndrome and that difficult mindset to one side. Katie Harvey: I'm so glad it has as well, because you really have made a huge impact on people's lives. Something you mentioned there though, being a person of service. I see myself as a person of service as well, but often you can get in a bit of a hole with that, and sometimes you end up taking other people's responsibilities and needs more, they come at a higher level than your own. The Dementia Dialogues: Hmm. Katie Harvey: Have you ever felt like you've maybe said yes to too many things or helped someone to the extent that you've sort of let go of yourself a little bit and how have you kind of pulled that back? Or if you haven't, how have you stopped yourself from doing that? Because as a person, it's quite difficult. The Dementia Dialogues: See me smile? Yes. Yeah, yeah, probably a lot. Over the years, definitely, I think you, you sometimes don't put a cap on your own capacity. And you say, you're the one that ends up suffering then. And that's definitely been like affected my health by doing that. because I wouldn't say no, would jump. If anybody wants my help, I would jump. I would say probably in the past six months, I've really, really worked on boundaries and no and practicing saying no to the where it feels now comfortable and I'm realizing that I'm not actually letting somebody down. I'm protecting myself and they're more than likely. going to go and find that help or whatever they need elsewhere. Unless I knew it was a situation where they have nobody else, that's a different story. But your favourite saying, you can't pour from an empty cup and yeah, boundaries is a massive thing for me. That's part of my goals for the year rest is not a reward, it's a necessity. the saying and the boundaries align with that because I need to say no sometimes just so that I can... rest guilt free. Yeah. Katie Harvey: 100 % and I speak to so many people who I say to them. You can say no, you don't have to say yes to everything and my new favourite phrase that I'm sort of, I guess, teaching people, I don't know if I would put it like that, is saying, yes but not yet. I will do that, but I'm going to do that towards the end of the year. I've had people who have asked to be guests on the podcast who just don't have the capacity right now and their response is yes but not yet and that The Dementia Dialogues: Mm-hmm. Katie Harvey: inspired me quite a lot actually because I don't like saying no to everything because some of the stuff I do want to do still and I'm sure you feel the same but I just can't do it right now so it's okay to say no not yet I'll do it in the future The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, yeah, it is really difficult, isn't it? I really like that actually, yes, but not yet. Because especially when you, you know, you're working on something new. like say with the podcast, I really want to keep building and pushing and getting visibility and the credibility. So you don't want to say no to opportunities that come your way. You've just got to be picky and choosy, but yes, but not yet is a great way to respond. Great way. I love that. I'm having that. Thank you. Katie Harvey: like it as well because it ⁓ of reframes it because sometimes to me when I say no I feel guilty, I feel a bit negative whereas if I say yes but not yet I'm essentially saying the same thing but it just sounds a bit more positive, it doesn't sound like I'm almost rejecting them. I guess the rejection thing comes in a little bit, I don't want to sound like I've rejected someone so that really helped me when I learnt that little phrase so hopefully that will come into play now. The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, I'll put that in my pocket. Thank you very much. I might be throwing it back at you soon, so just remember that, won't you? Katie Harvey: You're welcome. then with the podcast, you're often having quite sensitive conversations. It's not always easy. I imagine there's quite an emotional weight to it as well. I know that in like the therapy world and in the counseling world, every therapist has a therapist. How you find the emotional weight of some of the conversations that you have and how do you personally... ⁓ give yourself space and time to process conversations because it also takes you back to the time when you were dealing and coping with it as well. The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, so there's two parts to that really. So firstly being it's been a learning curve as you say, ⁓ is emotional weight from it. And when I first started, think I was doing, I'd offer, ⁓ I wanted guests and I was panicking about not having guests, et cetera. And it was, my diary was open. So goes back to that boundaries conversation. My diary was open. I'll do it anytime, whenever you want. And ⁓ think for two weeks I've done two days where I've done three conversations back to back. And as much as I knew background of each guest, didn't, wasn't prepared for what was coming on that day. We can have as many conversations before we record and everything's fine. But on that day, they could just take you something emotional. And yeah, it's really heavy. So going, ⁓ I a day of three recordings. And it just completely, the second conversation was really, really emotional. And I felt then that I'd let the third guest down because I just, hadn't time to decompress from that previous conversation. So again, now boundaries are in place. I do two recordings a week. And that's, that's my limit so that I can fully commit to that guest and also take the time for myself afterwards. decompress, to take notes and go right well actually what's the learning from that, we have done anything differently. From the you know I've been there perspective I think that's quite calming for some guests especially the caregivers, that it's relatable to me. I'm not sort of somebody that's not been down a similar path and being able to resonate with them ⁓ a lot to them and to me so I know or have a better understanding, not necessarily know all the time when they need that space in that conversation to just be, you know. So I've got a live interview at Birmingham NEC with a lady who is a professional in the dementia world, but actually going through it with her mum as well. So we've had an initial chat last week because she said, I just want to get all my emotion out now. And I've said exactly the same to her. We can do that. But on that day, something could hit you it could just all come flooding. But I'd equally said, don't worry, because I will probably cry as well, because I am an emotional soul. So just let it be, you know? Yeah. Katie Harvey: it's going to be on stage now we know you have a you have a common theme of crying on stage. now I'm gonna on the guests ⁓ a little bit. ⁓ And you speak to different people that have gone through variations of experiences of dementia from the caregivers to the people who are side by side with their parents or family members that going through it. How do you think it affects them, ⁓ not just the kind of... The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah. Katie Harvey: grieving state that they go through, but the emotional state and having that balance in their lives and dealing with all of that at the same time. The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, there's quite a big, what the class is the sandwich generation now, where of ⁓ similar age to myself, I'm 46, are caring for their parents and yet they also have young children as well. So they are juggling a heck of a lot. And there's a lot of pressure there. There's a lot of stress. trying to earn their own money whilst caregiving and, ⁓ you running a family and a household, et cetera. And it's hard. It's really hard. don't think a lot of them realize that they have become a caregiver, that they've stepped into that role. And actually once they realize that, that can shift a lot of their mindset. They can get a lot more help for a start off, but it's really difficult for them to navigate that without realizing that they've become a caregiver. a lot of people, excuse me, don't ask for help until they're at crisis point either. So there's a lot of, as much as this might seem a lot of effort to go into planning and thinking ahead, actually there's a lot of importance on that because it's a lot worse if you get to crisis point and you need to be thinking about getting somebody in to help you at home the person that you're caring for and it at crisis point is far too late. You need to be thinking about it sooner, you know. They carry lot of weight, a lot of weight and it's really, really difficult. really difficult there's definitely just not enough support for them out there at all. Katie Harvey: And obviously that's what you're trying to bring more of. And I think you're doing an amazing job just raising awareness as well. I know the amount of people that I've connected with since you started and the amount of people that all of a sudden I know have been affected by it. And you just didn't realize before because people keep it quiet and not comparable to burnout, but it's comparable in the sense that The Dementia Dialogues: Hmm. Katie Harvey: People often don't realise they've become a carer, don't realise they've become a caregiver, they don't realise they've become burnt out in that process and like you say, they hit crisis point and it takes almost someone else to say that but because you're raising awareness of it and people are listening to the podcast and they're listening to the dementia dialogues and all of a sudden they're going, that kind of sounds like me. The Dementia Dialogues: Exactly that, Which is why I wanted the caregivers on as guests, you know, because they can, they're going through it or they've been through it and sharing their stories of, you know, yes, I've got to crisis point before X, Y, O, Z then other guests that ⁓ ⁓ in it and ⁓ just talking about the struggles that they're finding about trying to find respite care or... ⁓ feeling guilty about going away on holiday when actually they need the break themselves. But then having those guests back on as well later in the year and recapping over how their 12 months have gone once they've voiced what they're going through, once they've asked for help has been amazing. That's a real, yeah, that's really rewarding for me to see how far they've come and for them to share again the changes that they've made. because of, since having that initial conversation is really good, really good. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and I bet there's been quite a few guests where they haven't really realised at the point that they're at until they've been on and are speaking about it because there's so many that don't talk about it at all because they don't want to seem like a burden or they don't want to sound like all I talk about is my mum that's got dementia at the moment and I feel like everyone's bored of hearing about it but actually I think we always say it don't we? I'd rather my friend cry on me for hours on end than feel like they're alone. The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, I think there's two parts to that. think it's a, if people are coming and listening to the podcast, they're there for the same reason. So yeah, it's a great place to share. lot. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of caregivers, if I reach out to them or ask them to come on the podcast, they're like, yeah, I don't really think I've got anything worth saying. But then I always, always, if I get any feedback about their episode, go back to them and say, look, this person's been in touch and said this about your episode. this is the value that you've given by sharing your story. It gives them that confidence and that uplift as well. But equally, I guess on that have said, they don't wanna talk about it. They don't wanna talk about it to the friends because they want that step away from the world of dementia. They want to just go out and be themselves. They don't want to keep being asked about whether they are coping or whatever. They just want to live their lives as... Katie Harvey: Mm-hmm. The Dementia Dialogues: Katie or Natalie, you know, but coming on the podcast, can still do that in a safe space where everybody gets it. We are over explaining. Katie Harvey: Yeah. I love that. And you really have created that safe space for these people. know obviously, Aunty Rachel, she's been on a couple of times. And the first time when I mentioned it to her, she was like, me going on a podcast? She's like, absolutely not. And then when you guys actually connected and spoke, I just remember her afterwards. She was like, I'm so glad I did it. She was like, I haven't spoken like that or any of it. The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah. Yeah, and she said from that, so many people have approached her that she didn't know were going through it either for advice in a sense to ⁓ her story, which is amazing. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and It is, and it just, don't know who's ⁓ through what. And I think that one of my biggest eye-openers was, we a few things going on this year and I asked a room how many people in the room had been affected by dementia, either directly or indirectly. And I asked them to stand up and there was probably about 65 to 70 people in the room and every single person stood up. And I think that was I kind of wish I didn't ask the question because it was quite overwhelming to actually see that many people and that's not a lot compared to how many people are actually being affected by it but to see it physically everyone stand up it was like ⁓ my god like that's a lot everyone is going through something in their own way and you just don't realise sometimes The Dementia Dialogues: No, absolutely not. I agree with that as well. there's, I was talking to a gentleman a few, a good few months ago, and he was talking to me about his mum and his mum had been in hospital and she's got this thing. And I thought, I know exactly what you're going to say, because I had this thing in my head that I was, people were drawn to you, maybe that had dementia. I was convinced I was like this magic woman that just knew when people were suffering in that way or, you know, struggling. And he said that his mom had dementia. And I'm walking away and I thought, not got this magic pole at all. It's just that there's that many people now affected by it one way or another, whether they are, like said, the spouse, the daughter, the granddaughter. ⁓ There's somebody within your circle that will have that connection with dementia. So you case Bigger's Killer. Now, so ⁓ you know somebody with it. Yeah. And it's looking and just reaching out to those people that are caregivers or people that don't even realise that the caregivers and just touching base and just checking in that they are okay. Asking how they are. Yeah, not don't ask about the situation, just checking on them as a person. Yeah, yeah. Even if they might not need the help right there and then just keep offering it just keeps saying you know where I am when you know if you need me for space for you know, whatever chat, shopping. Katie Harvey: Yeah. The Dementia Dialogues: But yeah, they just need to know that they've got a support network around them because it's such a difficult journey. Katie Harvey: the support is absolutely key and if you were to offer maybe three top tips to people that are going through their own process with dementia whether as a caregiver or someone that's going through the grief process or recently passed away from dementia because there's a lot of feelings involved with that as well because obviously there's a partly relief. The Dementia Dialogues: Mm-hmm. Katie Harvey: because you don't like seeing the person that you love that way, but you've still been aggrieved because it's someone that you loved, what would you say for them to do for themselves? The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah. Firstly, if you're starting on that journey, make sure you've got that support network. That might be one person or two, it doesn't matter, but just make sure that you have got someone that you can lean on. There are people out there if you haven't, because I realize that some people are only children, no children of the raw, you know, quite keep themselves to themselves. There are charities out there and the website, Dementia Dialogues website has got charities on there that you can reach out to different communities that you can lean into to share what your struggles, your grief, whatever that might be. And thirdly, I think if you are, if you're going through it, the grief process because a loved one has passed away, don't feel guilty for that relief. You've been and done the best. of your ability with the knowledge that you have to make them comfortable and feel loved and seen. And they are now at peace. I know you need to give yourself that time back. Give yourself time to breathe and to grieve and don't put a time limit on that either because that comes in waves still 10 years down the line it still comes in waves. But just accept it. Just accept it. But be kind to yourself. Definitely be kind to yourself. Katie Harvey: I love that. It definitely shouldn't be, I should have done this or I should have done that or I could have done this because everyone just does the best that they can at the time. And there's no playbook around this. There's no, everyone affected is affected differently in terms of symptoms and their reaction. And there's many different types of sort of emotion that people with dementia have as well. And it's, The Dementia Dialogues: No. Katie Harvey: You don't know how to deal with that. No one knows how to deal with that. You very much have to turn up on the day and do what you can do. The Dementia Dialogues: Exactly that. And I do say that a lot, actually, as in, I know, every guest that comes on, probably go, oh, gosh, I wish I'd have known that. If we'd have done that, that would have been so much different. And I can't change it. And I always say whatever we did for Nan did come from a place of love. Probably weren't the best decisions in hindsight, knowing what I know now, but that's why the podcast exists so that people can make better decisions and better choices. But yeah. Katie Harvey: Exactly. And you're opening up that world for so many people of resources that they didn't know were there. And I think that's so important. think that the accessibility that, even if they don't choose to use it, but just knowing it's there is 10 times more important than being completely in the dark. So what you're doing is incredible. And hopefully someone today listening will ⁓ The Dementia Dialogues: Hmm. Yeah. I'm sorry. Katie Harvey: not feel alone in any of journey, whether that's being a mum, whether it's being a business owner or whether it's someone that's helping or caring for someone with dementia as well. The Dementia Dialogues: Thank ⁓ Yeah, and I've said the boys and Anthony have been fully supportive of the podcast as well. Morgan does the social media and all it helps out when I can't work cap cut out to figure something out. Because they know how much it means, you know, and they know that it's like I said, it's a passion project. It's not a money earner or anything like that. But it does take a lot of time and effort, doesn't it podcasting? We know that we both been saying both there. they're helping me not burn out on that front. Katie Harvey: Hahaha! The Dementia Dialogues: helping out as much as they can with different things. So I've even got all of his friends, like 14 year olds listening to the podcast in the gym. I'm like, why? But you know, it's education, so I'll take it. Yeah, it's good. Good. Katie Harvey: Yeah, yeah. And was so grateful when a member of our family got diagnosed that this was already set up because I felt like I immediately had somewhere to go. And don't think many people felt like that when they've gone through the same process. So the fact that I had someone ⁓ to to immediately was such a relief to kind of go, okay, I don't know anything about this right now. And The Dementia Dialogues: and Katie Harvey: this is what I can do. I'm just going to go and listen to some podcasts, see what people are saying and then kind of go with the flow with it. And yeah. The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, that's exactly it. We didn't have that at all. You know, my mum and her sister were primary caregivers for Nan and I was sort of the... I would go and visit Nan because obviously I loved her very deeply, but I was emotional support for mum and my auntie. But outside of that, they could have done with some external support, but we didn't have anything or know where to go for that, you know. So you literally had each other and all of us not really knowing a lot. So everybody was probably... burning out and not wanting to let the other one down, you know, like let Auntie have a break because she needs, I don't want her burning out and being ill and vice versa for mum and it's just a vicious circle, which is why you need that support network. You can't do everything on your own. Katie Harvey: there any final sentiments that you would like to leave today? The Dementia Dialogues: yeah, I ⁓ say just put yourself first in whatever capacity you are, whatever reason you are listening to this today, whether that is as a caregiver, as a business owner, a full-time mom, ⁓ capacity that is, you need to put yourself first. Katie Harvey: love that. It's always put your own oxygen mask on first because you cannot help other people around you unless you're at your best. And I often say, I've said it on a few of the pods, is the best gift that you can give someone else is the best version of you. ⁓ believe that deeply because in reality, when someone isn't feeling their best, you don't want to be around them. So ⁓ the best version of you and look after yourself. The Dementia Dialogues: Absolutely. ⁓ Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there was something said last week in a training that I did for mental health was just check on your battery today. Is it a hundred percent? Is it 50 %? What can you give and just be honest with yourself? So I've tracking that now just to check in in the morning. Like, where's my battery level at today? You know, so do that. Yeah. Katie Harvey: Yeah, I do something similar actually, a little bit different. I wake up and say, this is how many spoons I have today. And each task requires a certain amount of spoons. And once I've run out of spoons, no more tasks are being done. But it helps me, what's word like? ⁓ understand how much I can give that day in terms of like okay I'm gonna have just a content heavy day editing stuff because I don't have the social battery today the social side takes too many spoons and I don't have enough for that. Did it work? The Dementia Dialogues: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It gives you that visual. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Katie Harvey: Well, thank you so much for sharing your perspective so openly. Conversations like this exist to normalise experiences that many people go through quietly as life and responsibility grow. If anything we've spoken about feels familiar, that doesn't mean that something is wrong. It just means that you're starting to pay attention. And you can find more conversations like this through b.reathe And if you want to understand where you are currently operating, you can take the b.reathe score card at www.breatheblueprint.com. And that, if anyone wants to reach out and listen to the podcast, where can they find it and where can they find you? The Dementia Dialogues: They can find the podcast on Apple and Spotify or wherever else you listen to your podcasts. We've got the website, is www.ddpodcast.com and you can email me at natalie at ddpodcast.com too. Katie Harvey: Amazing, thank you for joining me today. The Dementia Dialogues: you for having me on.