Latest / Sharp Strategies Sweet Success / #64 - Navigating the Legal Landscape: A Chat with James Abrenio | Business, AI & Politics

Transcript

#64 - Navigating the Legal Landscape: A Chat with James Abrenio | Business, AI & Politics · Sharp Strategies Sweet Success

0:00
And that's what a lot of private attorneys won't say to clients
0:02
and I tell them
0:03
SPEAKER_00: that all the time.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Because if you're competing for price with the public defender's office,
0:09
SPEAKER_00: you're probably running a volume shop and you just,
0:12
I hear a lot of people talking trash about the PD's office and
0:14
just wrong.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: I used to be a public defender.
0:16
So you can get good representation in Northern Virginia if you
0:21
can't afford a lawyer now.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Sharp Strategies, Sweet Success.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone, and welcome.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: This is Sharp Strategies,
0:39
SPEAKER_01: Sweet Success,
0:40
SPEAKER_01: and I'm Tiffany Swedensky,
0:42
SPEAKER_01: and today I am talking to James Abrinio.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: I worked with James Abrinio at Ben Glass Law a long time ago.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: We're getting old.
0:51
And he did the small criminal practice that we had there at the
0:55
firm and also the
0:56
SPEAKER_01: personal injury cases.
0:57
He was always super fun to work with and very,
1:00
very passionate about the law.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: And I really appreciated that about him.
1:04
I learned a lot of stuff from you in the process because I just
1:06
heard in the
1:07
SPEAKER_01: office,
1:08
you were actually one of the only attorneys like talking about
1:12
a bunch of the
1:12
SPEAKER_01: changes that are happening in politics.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: The rest of us just had our heads down and we're focused on Lee.
1:17
And so it was always like really nice to see you're kind of
1:21
like the attorney
1:22
SPEAKER_01: before I worked with attorneys.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: You are what I imagined attorneys would be like.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Except better looking, right?
1:29
So I guess I'll turn it over to you unless you finish out your
1:31
introduction.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, look, I appreciate it.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: Always a pleasure speaking with you.
1:36
You are my SEO marketing technical person that I would always
1:41
ask questions about.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: And it was fun working with you.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: And I left Ben's office 2019 right before COVID.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Perfect timing, of course.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: And I've been running a small firm in Fairfax for since then.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: So almost six years.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: We're actually coming up next week.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: It'll be a six year anniversary.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Last year, my wife, Linda, joined as a partner.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: We actually just changed the name of the firm to a Breenio Cho.
2:05
I'm very feminist and she kept her last name and we've added it
2:08
to the firm name.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: And so that's been cool.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: We have a five month old at home and a three and a half year old.
2:13
So I'm actually at my home office and I spend most of my time
2:16
working out of the
2:17
SPEAKER_00: office,
2:18
SPEAKER_00: still doing personal injury,
2:19
SPEAKER_00: still doing criminal defense and just living life.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's me.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: How is the caseload split these days?
2:27
Is it like mostly personal injury,
2:29
mostly criminal,
2:30
or is it down the middle?
2:31
Yeah,
2:32
it's usually 60,
2:36
40,
2:38
70,
2:38
30 split PI,
2:37
personal injury being the majority.
2:39
The criminal cases I do,
2:40
I mostly do because I just find them interesting.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: From a revenue standpoint, I'm probably technically losing money.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: In fact, that's part of the reason...
2:48
Ben and Brian and Charlie would get upset with me in the
2:51
criminal practice because
2:52
SPEAKER_00: it was not a huge moneymaker.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: But from a passion standpoint,
2:56
SPEAKER_00: also from just keeping my trial skills up to date,
3:00
SPEAKER_00: criminal was always – you're always in court a lot more often.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: You're doing very serious negotiations and then you're going to trial.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: So I just found it valuable from that perspective.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: And also we're talking about business.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: It was also a good business development.
3:13
I mean,
3:14
constantly interacting with other lawyers that don't do
3:16
personal injury.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I've got this case.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Can we talk about it?
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Hey, maybe you can help out a client, that kind of thing too.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: So I just found it,
3:23
SPEAKER_00: it rounded me out as a lawyer and also just my style,
3:26
SPEAKER_00: the way I do business and marketing,
3:28
SPEAKER_00: it just worked well with me and it still does to this day.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: I guess I haven't really, most of my clients are personal injury firms.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't have the opportunity to work with the criminal defense firms.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, maybe I shouldn't say that.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: So I want them to hire me.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: But so like with criminal,
3:47
are you having to like vet more leads to find the good cases
3:51
than you do as PI?
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
3:54
SPEAKER_00: so I actually,
3:56
SPEAKER_00: when I first started,
3:57
SPEAKER_00: I did a little bit with like AdWords and all that stuff.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: And I was getting a lot of calls
4:02
And the problem is I ended up just talking to people and then
4:06
we'd have this long conversation.
4:08
Then it became apparent they'd talked to four other attorneys
4:10
and it just became,
4:11
SPEAKER_00: hey,
4:11
SPEAKER_00: can you do it for less?
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Can you do it for less?
4:14
So now I don't really do,
4:17
I don't,
4:17
first of all,
4:17
I don't do any paid advertising anymore.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: And as far as the criminal cases,
4:23
SPEAKER_00: the potential client calls are definitely down,
4:25
SPEAKER_00: but they're more kind of targeted.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: And I'm very straight up forward saying,
4:30
SPEAKER_00: At the beginning of calls, hey, look, I'm a private attorney.
4:33
If you're looking just for cost,
4:35
if,
4:35
you know,
4:36
the cheapest guy,
4:37
I'm not going to be it.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm probably going to be charging more than most.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: And there are good attorneys that charge less than me.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: So if that's your number one priority, let's just get that off the top.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: And then that usually clarifies it pretty quickly.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: But still...
4:50
SPEAKER_00: Am I taking a majority of my case, potential cases on criminal?
4:54
Not usually just because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense
4:58
from a money standpoint.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if that answers the question.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: No, it does.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: So I guess like, do you feel like criminal defense is underserved?
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
5:08
I guess I just kind of imagine like you must get a bunch of
5:11
people who need help,
5:12
SPEAKER_01: but probably just can't afford it.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, so criminals is different than personal injuries.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: First of all, there's a public defender's office.
5:19
So if you're indigent,
5:20
if you can't afford a lawyer,
5:22
you will be appointed one by the court.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: We're in Fairfax County.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Fortunately, we have a very good public defender's office.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of those attorneys,
5:30
SPEAKER_00: frankly,
5:31
SPEAKER_00: have more experience than me or better trial attorneys than me.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: And that's what a lot of private attorneys won't say to clients.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: And I tell them that all the time.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Because if you're competing for price with the public defender's office,
5:44
SPEAKER_00: you're probably running a volume shop and you just,
5:47
I hear a lot of people talking trash about the PD's office and
5:49
just wrong.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: I used to be a public defender.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: So you can get good representation in Northern Virginia.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: And so there are a lot of lawyers I've noticed,
6:13
SPEAKER_00: and I'm not naming names,
6:14
but I noticed a lot of lawyers are kind of do the race to the
6:17
bottom where you have
6:19
SPEAKER_00: very relatively small fees and then they're stuck in the volume trap.
6:23
And I think that a lot of times hurts the clients because if
6:27
you're going to charge
6:28
SPEAKER_00: relatively low numbers,
6:31
you got to bring a bunch of cases on and then you're not
6:33
working up the cases as
6:34
SPEAKER_00: they should be.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: I think that can be very difficult.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: And I do think that there is a concern sometimes I have there.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of good lawyers,
6:44
SPEAKER_00: though,
6:44
a lot of excellent lawyers that charge reasonable prices and
6:50
sometimes will cut the
6:51
SPEAKER_00: fee just so they can get it.
6:52
And they have the ability because I think a lot of lawyers that
6:55
just do criminal
6:56
SPEAKER_00: defense,
6:56
SPEAKER_00: so that's their only business model.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: They can do a little bit more volume and still take those cases on,
7:02
SPEAKER_00: and then they're able to run with it.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Now,
7:04
SPEAKER_00: from a public standpoint,
7:07
SPEAKER_00: I think that you can find a good lawyer,
7:09
SPEAKER_00: first of all,
7:10
SPEAKER_00: if you can't afford it.
7:10
But if you're kind of on that just above poverty level,
7:13
you can still find a good lawyer.
7:14
I think you just should do your vetting well,
7:17
making sure you're looking them up.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, it's kind of like finding a doctor.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Talk to the lawyer.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: See if they give you enough time to actually ask questions.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: See if they're answered.
7:27
They don't have to be Johnny Cochran,
7:29
but answer questions in a way that you can understand it.
7:33
Because if the lawyer can't speak to you like you're a human
7:37
being and explain things simply,
7:40
It's probably not going to change over the course of that
7:42
representation.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Or if you can't get them on the phone,
7:44
SPEAKER_00: it's probably not going to change over the course of representation.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's just,
7:47
SPEAKER_00: I think that gap that you have very limited disposable income,
7:50
SPEAKER_00: you can be in a tough spot.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: But if you do your due diligence,
7:53
SPEAKER_00: you can find a good lawyer,
7:54
SPEAKER_00: especially here in Northern Virginia.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: So is there somewhat of a shortfall?
8:01
Yeah,
8:01
but I think you can find,
8:03
I think there are good lawyers able to do the job.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: So something that I'm not sure I ever talked about this,
8:10
SPEAKER_01: so people on my podcast won't be bored.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: But so around the time of this, when was Trump elected?
8:17
SPEAKER_01: 2016.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: 2016.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: And then 2024.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: So like, yeah.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, he would say 2020 as well, but okay.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, sorry.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Skip 2020.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm sorry.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: But like,
8:32
SPEAKER_01: so right around the time that like Doge was doing its whole thing,
8:37
SPEAKER_01: like its little purge,
8:38
one of my clients who has a social security disability arm saw
8:43
like a huge increase
8:45
in calls from people just worried about their benefits and like
8:50
what might happen
8:51
SPEAKER_01: to them and what all these changes mean.
8:53
Have you noticed a difference like in the types of calls you're
8:56
getting like in the
8:58
SPEAKER_01: whole like political climate,
9:00
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
9:01
SPEAKER_00: for the criminal?
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't think.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
9:03
SPEAKER_00: not so much criminal defense,
9:05
SPEAKER_00: but I will say like in the personal injury side,
9:06
SPEAKER_00: for instance,
9:07
SPEAKER_00: if you're if you've got a case pending,
9:11
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden your client has no income.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that puts pressure on them.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: And they say, well, you know, I'm not going to have any income.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Can we try to get this case resolved quicker?
9:20
SPEAKER_00: I've had a few of those discussions.
9:22
I've had a few discussions of potential clients that come on
9:27
and their accident
9:28
SPEAKER_00: affected their ability to work.
9:30
And then,
9:30
well,
9:30
is it really the purge that's the cause of the lost wages?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Or is it because you were going to be able to keep your job,
9:37
SPEAKER_00: but now you couldn't because of the crash?
9:39
Funny enough,
9:40
or not funny enough,
9:41
there's health insurance liens in personal injury cases.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: So for your viewers,
9:45
SPEAKER_00: they're not aware,
9:46
SPEAKER_00: if you get involved in an accident,
9:48
SPEAKER_00: and let's say TRICARE pays your medical bills,
9:51
SPEAKER_00: if you get money in that personal injury case,
9:54
SPEAKER_00: you have to reimburse TRICARE.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: So inherently in that,
9:57
I'm working with TRICARE or these other agencies to try to
10:01
reduce their lien,
10:02
and now I'm getting stuck because the shutdown had caused them
10:06
not be able to
10:06
SPEAKER_00: negotiate because they're not working.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: So,
10:09
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
10:09
everybody hasn't – not direct calls where they're concerned
10:13
about the purge,
10:14
SPEAKER_00: but it does – the shutdown has absolutely affected many – not many.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: It absolutely has affected the way I look at cases now.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:23
Man,
10:23
I – well,
10:24
and I hate to say I'm kind of removed from the government –
10:28
Like in our area in Northern Virginia,
10:30
there are just tons and tons of government employees.
10:34
And one of my friends is furloughed right now and just really
10:36
going through it.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: And I can't believe it's still going on.
10:39
And I feel like this is the longest government shutdown there's
10:42
been in my memory since.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, the longest is actually Trump's last administration.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: I think it was 30 days.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: I think we're at three weeks now.
10:49
And I don't know that we're going to – I think this is probably
10:53
going to be the longest one.
10:54
I feel like there's starting to be pressure because it's now
10:59
the Obama exchange has
11:01
SPEAKER_00: made it clear that your health insurance premiums are going to skyrocket.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: And I think now also is the last payments of the furloughed workers.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: So politically, I feel like there's going to be a lot more pressure.
11:13
On both parties,
11:14
I'm hoping the Republican Party,
11:15
but on both parties to end the shutdown.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: So hopefully things change.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: But then again, it's just such an unprecedented time.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: There's no way to predict what's going to happen.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: No, I remember one of the things I distinctly remember.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: I'd hopefully,
11:32
SPEAKER_01: well,
11:33
SPEAKER_01: anyway,
11:33
SPEAKER_01: like way back when,
11:35
SPEAKER_01: way back,
11:36
SPEAKER_01: like back when Trump was like,
11:38
SPEAKER_01: I kind of think it was like 2019.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: I think it was one of the Supreme Court justices.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was when Kavanaugh was appointed.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: You said that Roe v. Wade was in risk of being overturned.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: And me and Joe kind of made fun of you for it.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: We were just like, no way.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: No way it will be.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: He's overreacting.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: And you are totally right.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: And like every time I think like no way that's going to happen.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: There's no way I have to remember.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: I almost always think about that because it's just it surprises me,
12:11
like just the dramatic shift in politics and now with like AI
12:18
and all this AI
12:19
SPEAKER_01: stuff.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Just how much things are different,
12:22
SPEAKER_01: like now versus like when you and I started working together.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:26
I mean,
12:27
it's just unbelievable,
12:28
just unbelievable the pace of change and yeah,
12:32
it's crazy.
12:33
Well,
12:33
I mean,
12:33
as far as Roe v.
12:35
Wade,
12:36
I think it was pretty obvious that was the goal.
12:38
I think it was pretty obvious that was where the Republican
12:41
Party was going.
12:43
And that's the reason folks like me were so scared about what I
12:47
thought was a theft
12:48
SPEAKER_00: of the Supreme Court.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think same-sex marriage is probably next on the chopping block.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Voting Rights Act is going to be dead in the next term.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: I think opinion's coming down.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: I honestly—and I didn't mean this to be a political show, but—
13:02
SPEAKER_00: I worry about – I was on the redistricting commission here in Virginia.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've been paying attention to what's going on.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: But in the last six months,
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Trump pushed Texas to redistrict their congressional maps in order to,
13:17
SPEAKER_00: quote,
13:17
SPEAKER_00: find him more seats.
13:19
And now I actually wrote an op-ed to the Richmond Times saying
13:22
that we need to do
13:23
SPEAKER_00: something now in Virginia.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: So as we speak,
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Virginia is in special session to redistrict,
13:28
SPEAKER_00: to counter what Trump's doing,
13:30
because if Trump then stills the midterms and Democrats can't
13:34
take over the House,
13:36
SPEAKER_00: what's happening is going to go,
13:37
SPEAKER_00: we're at 100 miles now,
13:38
SPEAKER_00: we're going to go to 180.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: And that is where we're at.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And as far as the AI, nobody is talking about the impact that
13:45
SPEAKER_00: that that's going to have on all of us.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: I remember when you and I were working together,
13:49
SPEAKER_00: we were talking about,
13:50
SPEAKER_00: what about autonomous vehicles?
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Is that in the personal injury practice?
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Now we're like, are any of us going to have jobs?
13:57
SPEAKER_00: There's no point in shifting to a different practice area.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Who's going to work?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Well,
14:06
SPEAKER_01: an interesting fact for me,
14:08
SPEAKER_01: like something back of my mind is that I think 90,
14:13
some ridiculously high percent of the US economy is being
14:17
bolstered by the gamble
14:19
SPEAKER_01: on AI.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of companies went all in on AI.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: And then, oh, which publication was it?
14:28
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't Wired, but it was a really good one.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: It was a really notable publication.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Maybe somebody better than me can remember it.
14:37
But they basically put out a study that 90% of AI initiatives
14:42
of corporations and
14:43
SPEAKER_01: businesses have failed.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And so it's where the question is,
14:48
a lot of people think like we're in this like weird AI bubble
14:51
that's kind of
14:52
similar to the dot-com bubble where I guess people spent a lot
14:55
of money on,
14:56
SPEAKER_01: I was a kid then,
14:57
but like people spent a lot of money on domains and it just
15:00
like went crashing down
15:02
SPEAKER_01: and people lost money.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: That's all I really know about it.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: But I mean,
15:05
SPEAKER_01: people are wondering if like AI is kind of the same,
15:08
SPEAKER_01: like if we're in an AI bubble right now.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Well,
15:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
15:11
SPEAKER_00: I think when people,
15:12
SPEAKER_00: at least in my view,
15:13
SPEAKER_00: when people refer to about AI bubble,
15:15
SPEAKER_00: I think the way I see it is more of a investment bubble is is.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to start an AI company in order to get a huge IPO,
15:25
SPEAKER_00: and then I'm going to make much money,
15:26
SPEAKER_00: and then it's going to go bankrupt.
15:28
And I think that's what happened in the dot-com bubble was
15:30
there was a lot of
15:31
SPEAKER_00: companies that made a lot of money and took in a lot of investments,
15:34
SPEAKER_00: and then it popped,
15:36
SPEAKER_00: so you had a lot of companies go out of business.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: That being said, the underlying business did not die.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're sitting here.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Everything is based on the Internet.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: We are talking over Zoom.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: None of that's possible without the 90s tech boom.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: I think AI,
15:52
whether or not NVIDIA is going to ultimately be the company
15:55
that leads us through
15:56
SPEAKER_00: the generation 3000 or whatever,
15:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: But AI is definitely a transformative technology.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I use it in legal research.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: It allows me to kind of close the gap.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I'm a great legal researcher.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: It kind of helps me close the gap into that,
16:12
SPEAKER_00: where maybe I wouldn't ordinarily have hired an associate.
16:17
but I'm trying to run low cost overhead and I'm just doing it
16:20
myself and AI allows
16:21
SPEAKER_00: me to do a lot more comfortably.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: So I do think that whether or not it's a bubble or not,
16:27
SPEAKER_00: it's not really the question we're asking.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: The question we're asking is, what is the end game here?
16:34
We're seeing Tesla trying to create physical robots that take
16:38
over human jobs.
16:39
The goal there for the technocrats is to get rid of human
16:43
capital so they don't
16:44
SPEAKER_00: have to deal with them.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: They can just get their machines to do whatever, not pay them anything.
16:48
And then their money goes up because they're the ones investing
16:51
all this stuff.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't think what they've also thought about,
16:53
SPEAKER_00: though,
16:53
SPEAKER_00: is like when just the average class,
16:56
SPEAKER_00: the working people run out of money,
16:59
SPEAKER_00: nobody's going to spend money on Amazon if they don't have a fucking job.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: I think that for what that's worth.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: And sorry for the F-bomb.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: I do it all the time.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: I, if the FTC cares about my podcast, that's a good advertising.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: So like I had a story idea that I never actually wrote,
17:19
SPEAKER_01: but I think it's because some,
17:20
SPEAKER_01: I remember you were a writer too.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I still do.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: I run a legal marketing company so I can write more,
17:27
SPEAKER_01: but the irony is the business takes so much time.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: I know I actually have less time for writing.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: And then I write so much for Substack.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: I love Substack.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: But so I did have a short story idea once because the question of like,
17:39
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
17:40
SPEAKER_01: businesses can automate us out of jobs,
17:42
SPEAKER_01: but then who will be their consumers?
17:45
And I had a theory that we would all have our own personal
17:49
robots that would
17:50
SPEAKER_01: essentially go to work for you.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: And you would get paid for your robots' work.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: And people who had more money would be able to buy better robots.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: And I thought that would be an interesting concept.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: And like maybe that,
18:05
but also we'll probably all have our own personal AI assistants
18:09
who know like
18:10
SPEAKER_01: exactly what we're doing,
18:12
SPEAKER_01: what we're about to do,
18:13
SPEAKER_01: what we're forgetting and all that stuff.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: And AI is tremendously helpful to me.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: As an individual,
18:20
there are like about a dozen things that I've automated to make
18:24
my life easier and
18:26
SPEAKER_01: to make some of the stuff I do for my clients easier.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, like it's just like,
18:33
SPEAKER_01: There's still like a lot of hype there's there.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Well,
18:37
SPEAKER_01: it's hard to overhype something that is actually a remarkable tool,
18:40
SPEAKER_01: but it's,
18:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
18:42
There still is like some element of con a lot of content
18:45
marketing going on.
18:46
A lot of these AI companies telling us that this will take our
18:50
jobs at the same
18:52
SPEAKER_01: time,
18:52
SPEAKER_01: developing the thing that will take our jobs.
18:54
And Joe Rogan won't stop talking about AI and it's looking
18:58
annoying and he's being
19:00
SPEAKER_01: sponsored paid by perplexity.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: So like I,
19:03
SPEAKER_01: there,
19:03
there is a tremendous amount of like marketing going on behalf
19:06
of these AI
19:07
SPEAKER_01: companies to try to keep this,
19:08
SPEAKER_01: like this,
19:09
like fear cycle of AI is going to take over going because
19:13
that's how they make more
19:14
SPEAKER_01: money.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: They make more money when we're scared.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was watching some YouTube channel.
19:19
They were talking about how it's like the AI is making videos
19:23
about how AI is
19:24
SPEAKER_00: dangerous,
19:25
SPEAKER_00: and it's just this constant loop,
19:27
SPEAKER_00: and they're getting views based on their AI videos.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I don't know the answer.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: I do think that if we had somewhat rational government actors...
19:37
SPEAKER_00: that we're able to,
19:39
because what we should be doing is having our political leaders
19:42
envisioning in the
19:43
SPEAKER_00: future that we wanna live and then regulate,
19:46
SPEAKER_00: but we're not,
19:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
19:48
one thing that the last decade has taught me is I won't be
19:51
surprised if we end up
19:52
blowing ourselves up because we are a self-destructive body and
19:58
I just don't think
19:58
SPEAKER_00: we can get our shit together.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it's never,
20:00
SPEAKER_00: it's not gonna be because it's intentional behavior,
20:03
SPEAKER_00: it's gonna be because we just can't get our shit together.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Somebody pressed the wrong button and we're all done.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: So that's my sense of view.
20:13
Well,
20:13
and I always think about,
20:14
there's like a congressional hearing about TikTok.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: And I can't remember exactly what the congressman asked the TikTok guy,
20:22
SPEAKER_01: but it was some absolutely ridiculous question.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, can TikTok read my mind or does TikTok know something?
20:28
SPEAKER_01: And I don't understand how...
20:35
SPEAKER_01: somebody could be that stupid.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to figure out a nice way to put it,
20:38
SPEAKER_01: but like,
20:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't understand how somebody who is elected to politics,
20:43
who is smart enough to do that can ask such like a dumb
20:47
question about technology.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: And it's scary.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, do you even know?
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Being elected does not mean you're smart.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Being elected does not mean you can run government.
20:56
Being elected just means you're good at campaigning for your
21:00
particular constituents.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
21:02
SPEAKER_00: Marjorie Taylor Greene, perfect example, lunatic.
21:06
But she was the biggest fundraiser as a freshman congresswoman
21:12
in the history of
21:14
SPEAKER_00: the United States.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: And so the way that our system is set up,
21:19
SPEAKER_00: we're not even meant to elect the smartest people,
21:22
SPEAKER_00: the most thoughtful people.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: It's the ones that can speak the loudest,
21:25
especially now that we're on social media and that's how we
21:28
drive politics.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: It's and I mean,
21:32
SPEAKER_01: politics is the reason that social media and social media marketing got
21:37
SPEAKER_01: particularly like Facebook ads got so hard.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: It used to be like dangerously easy to get a ton of marketing data.
21:46
that you shouldn't have had access to using the Facebook
21:49
business platform back in the day.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: And all marketers were abusing it,
21:53
SPEAKER_01: but a political Cambridge Analytica,
21:55
SPEAKER_01: like a political organization doing,
21:58
SPEAKER_01: you abused it too hard and got caught for it.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:02
And I mean,
22:03
it's kind of a terrible,
22:04
terrible thing to say,
22:05
but I'm a marketer.
22:06
I really miss that data that we're no longer getting,
22:09
but yeah,
22:09
I mean,
22:10
it,
22:10
it,
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Then every time you're on an ad platform,
22:14
there are so many checks to make sure you're not running
22:17
political ads because that
22:19
SPEAKER_01: used to be,
22:20
SPEAKER_01: and probably still is like a real big problem.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: Anyone can start an ad account and run ads, promoting whatever.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: They wouldn't have any direct affiliation with a politician,
22:33
SPEAKER_01: but they're certainly promoting one particular viewpoint.
22:37
And it's just crazy how much social media has been leveraged
22:40
and continues to be
22:41
SPEAKER_01: leveraged like and something that's.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: super interesting to think about.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of outside my sphere of marketing,
22:49
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
22:50
but like meme culture and how like memes drive votes and
22:55
interest in certain things
22:56
SPEAKER_01: is really complex,
22:58
SPEAKER_01: like unbelievably complex.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And politicians have their own marketing teams.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: All they do is generate funny memes and it's crazy.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Like it's crazy and it's controlled, but it's still kind of run amok.
23:11
Well,
23:12
and what's interesting,
23:13
you say political ads are hard to get on Facebook or whatever.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: Now you have...
23:18
influencers that are essentially the political ads that they
23:22
get ad revenue from
23:24
SPEAKER_00: Bitcoin and all this other stuff.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of flipped it.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: And so you have folks like Joe Rogan.
23:30
I used to listen to Joe Rogan before he got political when he
23:33
just would say weird shit.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, he's kind of smart, had an interesting take.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: And then he got overtly political.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: And now you see even podcasts that I watch are just pure politics.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And then they're, by the way, let's...
23:47
SPEAKER_00: While you're listening to us, you should buy this product.
23:50
It's become a flip to where the advertisers want to get on the
23:54
political shows.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Of course, everybody has their viewpoint.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Then the influencers make a ton of money.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: They're making a lot of money doing this stuff.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: No,
24:03
SPEAKER_01: it's this kind of crazy intersection between like politics and marketing,
24:07
SPEAKER_01: because that's a huge part of politics.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, Google search, you know, is changing so much.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: Like AI is changing that space so much.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: Have you had any clients say they found you on ChatGPT yet?
24:21
SPEAKER_00: I've had a couple.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but not a ton.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: Are you seeing that a lot on your end?
24:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
24:28
SPEAKER_01: not in huge volume,
24:30
SPEAKER_01: like maybe two,
24:32
SPEAKER_01: three people a month on average,
24:34
SPEAKER_01: but like also the data is kind of muddy.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: And we had,
24:38
SPEAKER_01: like,
24:38
I had to be really specific about the kind of data we were
24:42
getting on our contact
24:43
SPEAKER_01: forms for,
24:44
to be able to even know that it was coming from chat GBT and
24:47
not somewhere else.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:48
and so like people will tell us they found us there or we'll
24:52
see it like in the
24:53
data and it's just like kind of slowly growing which i think is
24:56
really cool yeah
24:58
it's interesting and it just i mean for me from a marketing
25:03
standpoint it's like
25:03
does that mean like obviously the goal is how do you get on
25:07
chat with gbt's radar
25:09
SPEAKER_00: but i feel like
25:12
SPEAKER_00: that's just a race to the bottom.
25:14
Like you just got to pay more and write more and how you can
25:18
ever compete with a
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Morgan and Morgan kind of firm on something like that.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: So.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: See, I don't think AI ranking is about content.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: I think ranking in AI is about
25:30
like brand mentions which another story i think of really often
25:34
is the time you got
25:35
a rolling stone backlink that was like the coolest thing that
25:37
ever happened to me
25:39
and i mean i'm exaggerating obviously but i still remember i
25:42
was like oh my god he
25:43
did it like that was cool shit i'm not gonna lie it was when i
25:47
on my deathbed i'm
25:49
SPEAKER_00: gonna give my kids the rolling stone article so that was pretty cool yeah
25:53
SPEAKER_01: No, we even put that on the site as seen in the rolling stone.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: I have that on my current site.
26:00
But I think that like the brand mentions and like being written
26:04
about by an
26:05
SPEAKER_01: authoritative external source,
26:08
SPEAKER_01: not your website,
26:10
SPEAKER_01: is like actually the key to good SEO ranking right now.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: That reviews, you know, naturally.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: And so it's what should we be doing marketing wise to get that?
26:19
SPEAKER_01: It's like trying to get...
26:23
SPEAKER_01: mentioned in the Rolling Stone, trying to get a Wikipedia page.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: And actually,
26:27
SPEAKER_01: what I'm hearing a lot is like Reddit,
26:28
SPEAKER_01: like,
26:29
SPEAKER_01: one of my clients is an active Redditor.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: And he signed like, he signs like two or three cases a month from Reddit.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: And he's just like, on the boards.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And when somebody says like, I was in a car accident, he's talked to me.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: And he signs people that way as well.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, go ahead.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me, I find like I like YouTube the best.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: I just enjoy it the most.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: So I do a lot of like videos and commentary.
26:55
I also do my own little podcast,
26:57
interview people,
26:58
and I get cases from it.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: So my philosophy is there's a thousand ways to be heard.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: If you try to get everybody to hear you, you're never going to compete.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: So pick something you enjoy doing and then just do it the best you can.
27:12
And then I think firms you're working with are probably bigger
27:16
size than mine.
27:17
I also intentionally stay,
27:21
quote,
27:22
small because the lower overhead I have,
27:25
the lower overhead.
27:26
money the lower amount of money i need to make and then i get
27:29
to choose to do what
27:30
i want and so we're just very intentional about what we spend
27:34
money on both from
27:35
the business side and the personal side and then do great work
27:38
too i mean at the
27:38
end of the day just do great work as well it's fundamental so
27:41
for what it's worth
27:43
well and when you're passionate about what you do it doesn't
27:46
feel like work and
27:48
SPEAKER_01: just
27:50
I think the real struggle for a lot of people is finding
27:52
something they're like
27:53
SPEAKER_01: super passionate about.
27:54
And I get asked from time to time,
27:56
it's like,
27:56
oh,
27:57
like,
27:57
how do I do what you do?
27:58
And it's just like,
27:59
you have no idea,
28:00
like how much I live and breathe marketing.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: And if you live and breathe marketing, you can be like me too.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: And so that's like the missing ingredient for a lot of people.
28:09
And I think too many people like look around and say like,
28:12
what's making this person happy.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: That's making this person happy.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: Instead of just saying, I want to work.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: I want to do exactly the kind of work that I want to do.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: Like that's, that's great.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of, that's almost idealistic.
28:25
Yeah,
28:26
I mean,
28:26
any,
28:27
I really like the work that I do,
28:28
but 80% of it is bullshit grinding,
28:31
right?
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Do I want to run payroll in order to run my own firm?
28:34
Do I want to look at insurance contracts to make sure I get the
28:37
right thing?
28:38
SPEAKER_00: Do I want to look at the 401ks and stuff like that?
28:40
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't want to.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Even on the legal side,
28:42
SPEAKER_00: do I want to be helping share and get records and then working out liens?
28:46
SPEAKER_00: No, but like,
28:47
SPEAKER_00: in order to do the fundamental work and get the job done,
28:50
SPEAKER_00: in order to do the sexy stuff,
28:52
SPEAKER_00: you've got to do the other stuff.
28:54
And even basketball players that get to play in the NBA,
28:57
80% of their stuff is running sprints.
29:00
And so I think a lot of times people are so focused on that
29:06
Instagram platform
29:08
SPEAKER_00: settlement,
29:08
SPEAKER_00: whatever,
29:09
SPEAKER_00: advertisement where you get the $10 million settlement or whatever,
29:12
SPEAKER_00: they're not thinking about the work that went behind of that.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: And they don't really want to do that work.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that staying focused and then grinding is just...
29:24
SPEAKER_00: I've seen a lot of Instagram.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: You see Andrew Tate and all these assholes.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: You've got to grind.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: Not that kind of grinding where it's absurd, but just do the work.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: This isn't rocket science.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: We're not splitting the atom here.
29:36
We're just trying to answer people's business questions and
29:40
legal situations.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't want to start my morning routine at 4 a.m.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm happier if I sleep until 6.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: To be fair, you've got some kids.
29:52
Right now,
29:53
I have to get up at 5 just because I couldn't work out if I
29:55
didn't.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't plan on doing that long term.
29:58
Once they're a little bit older,
29:59
then I want to get up normal time and live normal hours.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Do you have an in-home gym or you go to like a gym somewhere?
30:08
SPEAKER_00: I have a gym that I'm a member of,
30:10
SPEAKER_00: but I set up my weights in the garage and sometimes I can't sleep.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: The day before yesterday, I couldn't sleep.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: I woke up at 3 a.m.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: and just worked out.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: This morning I woke up 530 and worked out and nothing sexy.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: It's just some dumbbells, a pull-down machine and a cycle machine.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: And you just, most of it's about diet anyway.
30:30
I mean,
30:30
it's just not eating junk food,
30:32
which I'm losing that battle right now.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: But I promise after Halloween, I'll get back on the thing.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: But it's more just a mental health thing.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: It's like, just get in, stay consistent.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's the way I think of it.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I lost a lot of weight dieting.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Counting calories,
30:49
SPEAKER_01: logging everything I ate,
30:51
SPEAKER_01: focusing on protein,
30:52
SPEAKER_01: nothing crazy,
30:53
SPEAKER_01: you know,
30:54
SPEAKER_01: calories in,
30:54
SPEAKER_01: calories out.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: And working out, I see it as more for mental health, just as you said.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: And also, like, I sit a terrible amount, so I have to.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: I have to get up and go.
31:06
Well,
31:07
is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to
31:10
go over?
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
31:12
SPEAKER_00: I think,
31:13
SPEAKER_00: cause I've been thinking about when we scheduled this,
31:16
we scheduled a few weeks ago and I've been thinking a lot about
31:18
like why I started
31:21
SPEAKER_00: a firm and like,
31:23
SPEAKER_00: what's the whole goal here?
31:25
SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
31:27
SPEAKER_00: I think I see a lot of build a business,
31:31
SPEAKER_00: expand,
31:32
SPEAKER_00: hire,
31:33
SPEAKER_00: get more office space,
31:36
SPEAKER_00: outsource,
31:36
SPEAKER_00: outsource,
31:37
SPEAKER_00: outsource,
31:37
SPEAKER_00: all those kinds of things.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: And that certainly works for a lot of people.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: But I really just wanted to talk about like...
31:44
SPEAKER_00: There's also another way to do it and to be kind of very low key,
31:51
keep overhead reasonable and be very intentional about like the
31:55
purpose of it.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Like the reason we started a firm was for flexibility.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: So my wife can stay, not work as long as she wants.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: She's with the firm, but she's not doing a lot of work right now.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'm able to work from the house.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: I've got an office, but I don't go in.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: I go to court when I need to.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: I meet clients when I need to, that kind of stuff.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: But
32:13
SPEAKER_00: None of that stuff's possible unless you're super focused.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: I do most of my own marketing,
32:18
SPEAKER_00: but I enjoy the marketing,
32:19
SPEAKER_00: and I'm trying to be consistent with it.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: I write articles.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: I do videos.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: I talk, all those kinds of things.
32:25
But I also don't overwhelm myself with things that are not
32:27
going to happen.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't overcommit myself.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And I take on cases, number one, that they're not assholes.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Like,
32:35
I don't care what you've done or been accused of done on the
32:38
criminal side so long
32:39
SPEAKER_00: as you respect myself and my teammates.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: And then just keep things simple.
32:44
Like,
32:45
I keep seeing all these ads for,
32:46
like,
32:47
new cars,
32:47
and I see my friends going out and...
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Spending all this money and like in 10 years,
32:53
SPEAKER_00: do you really,
32:54
SPEAKER_00: are you going to care about that car?
32:55
SPEAKER_00: No, you're not.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: But what we do see is an AI technology boom.
33:00
I don't know if it's a bubble,
33:02
but I will say like the market's doing really well right now.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: So be thinking about long term investing,
33:09
SPEAKER_00: things like that,
33:10
SPEAKER_00: because that goes hand in hand with the business.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Because for me,
33:12
I'm able to do cases that are more interesting and maybe not as
33:16
lucrative because
33:17
all the other stuff I've done my best to try to keep as simple
33:20
as possible.
33:21
So really,
33:22
you can have a successful business,
33:24
successful practice,
33:25
successful marketing.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do it the same way everybody else does it.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: You can just for me, my motto is keep it simple.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: So.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: No, I like that.
33:36
And I mean,
33:38
really,
33:39
like you're running,
33:40
I guess,
33:40
sort of a lifestyle business.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what I'm running.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't sure if you categorize it that way.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: So I was hesitant.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: And I had somebody else tell that to me,
33:49
SPEAKER_01: like the other day,
33:50
SPEAKER_01: it's like,
33:50
SPEAKER_01: I run a lifestyle business.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Oh, I don't.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: But that sounds real.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Well,
33:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't mean by lifestyle,
33:57
the things you see on Instagram where you just are at the beach
34:00
and all that kind
34:00
SPEAKER_00: of stuff.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about you can work, but also be there for your kids.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: I take my daughter to daycare every morning.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: I pick her up most of the days.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: I plan on being there for all the games.
34:10
I do not plan on missing important dates unless there's an
34:14
active trial actually happening.
34:17
I'm going to be there,
34:18
help out with tutoring and all that kind of stuff because
34:22
SPEAKER_00: And we're doing well financially.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: We're making money.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: I made more money this year than I ever thought I'd make.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not bragging.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying it's like we made real money this year,
34:32
SPEAKER_00: and it was because we were very intentional.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: And then,
34:35
SPEAKER_00: as you know,
34:36
SPEAKER_00: as we run a business,
34:37
SPEAKER_00: next year I may make less money than I've ever made.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: So you just save, invest, and be there for the important things.
34:45
And again,
34:46
talking about doing what you love,
34:48
we both are passionate about what we do.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: We don't love most of what we don't love,
34:53
SPEAKER_00: but we're passionate enough about it to where I keep thinking,
34:56
SPEAKER_00: people are like,
34:57
SPEAKER_00: are you going to take a lot of time off and all that kind of stuff?
35:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, I actually...
35:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't want to play video games.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: I like doing what I'm doing.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, let me talk about, let me research this case.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: I find that interesting for me,
35:10
SPEAKER_00: more interesting than I probably should take more vacation,
35:13
SPEAKER_00: but I find it more interesting than going to the beach.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
35:16
And this whole running my own business thing has really cut
35:20
into my video game time.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're a huge video gamer.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: I remember that too.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about this the other day and I'm like,
35:27
SPEAKER_01: man,
35:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't really play video games anymore because I don't have time.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: How do you want people to look you up?
35:32
SPEAKER_00: So you can always go to our website.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: It's abriniolaw.com.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: We've changed the firm name to Abrinio Cho.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: I also got abriniochow.com.
35:42
For some reason,
35:43
the redirecting keeps messing up,
35:44
so just use Abrinio Law.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: And then if you're interested in interesting legal stuff,
35:51
SPEAKER_00: our YouTube channel,
35:52
SPEAKER_00: just add Abrinio Cho.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: I talk about technical personal injury criminal law, but I also...
35:57
SPEAKER_00: talk a lot about like current stories.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Like I was actually getting ready to prep.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to do,
36:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you saw the story recently in Alexandria,
36:07
this family got scared to death because these people with masks
36:10
were going through
36:11
SPEAKER_00: the camera and on the,
36:13
SPEAKER_00: what is it?
36:13
SPEAKER_00: Rain camera and scared the hell out of everybody.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: It turned out to be family members.
36:16
So there was the police investigator gave a talk about why he
36:21
ended up not pursuing
36:22
SPEAKER_00: criminal charges.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to talk about that given Halloween.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: So I'll probably put that video tomorrow.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: So,
36:28
SPEAKER_01: I just saw that story.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: It's like literally right before we started recording.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of crazy.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: I'll have to look out for that.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of funny.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: But it's also got really interesting, serious legal implications.
36:41
Turns out like it was actually family members that were doing
36:44
it and the police got
36:45
SPEAKER_00: involved and they spent a lot of time and money investigating it.
36:48
And I think that somebody lied to law enforcement in order to
36:50
protect somebody.
36:51
So you got obstruction considerations and is it stalking that
36:55
there's a lot of
36:56
interesting legal implications long story short um don't lie to
37:00
cops just assert
37:01
the fifth and also don't scare the hell out of people just you
37:05
can do pranks but
37:06
make them more funny than scary so yeah so yeah the dangers of
37:12
pranking i guess wow
37:13
i wouldn't have thought of that i will watch that video because
37:15
that's that's kind
37:16
SPEAKER_01: of crazy yeah super interesting
37:19
SPEAKER_01: All right, guys.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for listening.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, James, for talking to me, coming back on the podcast.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: And we'll see everybody next time.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: All right.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Take care.