Latest / The Psychology of Relationships / Relationship Self-Sabotage: Why We Push Away the Love We Actually Want w/ Dr. Raquel Peel

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Relationship Self-Sabotage: Why We Push Away the Love We Actually Want w/ Dr. Raquel Peel · The Psychology of Relationships

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Julie Kraftcheck, and I'm U.A.
0:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Xu.
0:03
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the psychology of relationships.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Some relationship patterns are easy to recognize.
0:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Others are much quieter.
0:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Pulling away when things start to feel serious.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Expecting disappointment before it happens or convincing ourselves that staying guarded is the best way to avoid getting hurt.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What feels like self-protection can sometimes become the very thing keeping us from the connection we desire.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, we're joined by relationship researcher, TEDx speaker, educator, and psychologist Dr. Raquel Peel, who combines her professional expertise with her own experience as a recovering romantic self-sabotor.
0:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Together, we explore why we sometimes sabotage even healthy relationships, how patterns like criticism, defensiveness, contempt, it's don't walling, aka the forehorsemen, can slowly erode connection, and how we can recognize these behaviors before they become relationship and make habits.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We also discuss how building self-awareness can help us move away from reacting out of fear and towards responding with boring tension, vulnerability, and compassion, because creating the relationship we want often starts with understanding the patterns that may be standing in our way.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember to subscribe to the Psychology of Relationships on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.
1:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And if this episode shifted how you think about self-sabotage and vulnerability, we'd love a rating or review.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the Psychology of Relationships and you're listening to an episode that just might change the way you show up for love.
1:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Enjoy!
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: What is relationship sabotage and can you imagine having a career around researching what relationship sabotages?
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is who our guest is today.
1:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Her name is Raquel Peel.
1:52
[SPEAKER_00]: She was abandoned at birth and adopted by the nurse who looked after her.
1:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So at the end of your TED talk that went viral for so many reasons, but at the end you say, love will never be easy.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But without self sabotage, it is a lot more reachable.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: How would you define what self sabotage is in a relationship?
2:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for that.
2:11
[SPEAKER_02]: The way I've defined it is attitudes and behaviors that we employ in a relationship.
2:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes, knowingly, sometimes unknowingly, that inevitably helps us damage the relationship just to find the outcomes and withdraw from the relationship.
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So sometimes it's good that we can say, I knew it, that person wasn't good for me anyway, and now I can move on.
2:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's the type of attitude that damages the relationship.
2:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's being able to inevitably win.
2:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You win because you've damaged the relationship that you knew wasn't good for you or you win because despite all of the tricks and things that you
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we definitely have experienced that either ourselves, or through our listeners, this win-lose mentality, and a lot of it comes from ego, and not wanting to look sad, or that you did something wrong.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you help people kind of get over this piece of it?
3:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I see it as a self-protection mechanism, but ultimately it's not serving you.
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you advise people to move forward?
3:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the hardest part in your right.
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a self-protective mechanism, and as humans, we love being right.
3:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So at the end of the day, being able to say, I knew it, and I was right, is very rewarding.
3:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what keeps people stuck in the cycle of sabotage, because they've put it in their heads from previous experience that relationships don't work,
3:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever it is, they've sort of blocked in their mind.
3:44
[SPEAKER_02]: We ended up looking for it.
3:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So we look for that in the relationship.
3:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know I did it, so I looked for ways out because I wanted to be the first one to leave the relationship.
3:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew they were going to eventually get sick of me or not love me or not want me.
3:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So I looked for ways out.
4:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's that feeling of, I know this is going to happen.
4:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanna be right, it's rewarding, it's satisfying.
4:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the end of the day, even though we might be winning because we knew what was going to happen, we lose.
4:12
[SPEAKER_02]: We lose the chance of a good relationship.
4:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We lose emotionally.
4:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess where I want a little bit more clarity around is at what point do you notice that you're self sabotaging the relationship versus getting out of a bad or toxic relationship?
4:27
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can give us some examples of what self sabotaging behavior looks like, that would be great.
4:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a really good point.
4:33
[SPEAKER_02]: If it only happened once, I wouldn't call that a sabotage because you're exactly right.
4:38
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's not a good relationship, get out.
4:41
[SPEAKER_02]: the way I see it as defining as sabotage is the cycle so if you see yourself again and again getting into relationships and moving through them quite quickly and having that quick justification or it didn't work because this is not good for me because I got out of it because so it's having quick justifications for why relationships are not working it's putting the reason on the other person so they did that or they do that or
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: this is going to happen because day it's a very defensive attitude.
5:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So defensiveness is a big one.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's when we victimize ourselves and put the reason on the other person.
5:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So they are the reason because something happened to us.
5:19
[SPEAKER_02]: We are the victims.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: We are the one receiving the behavior.
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not being able to look at ourselves and go, wait a minute, I am the common denominator here.
5:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the one whose relationships don't work.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps it's me.
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where you get it's a bit
5:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, are you sure?
5:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, yeah, I'm sure you are the one who needs to look in the mirror and go, what am I doing?
5:40
[SPEAKER_02]: That is the same.
5:41
[SPEAKER_02]: What am I doing?
5:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That keeps me in this cycle.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's definitely easier not to look at yourself.
5:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think obviously that's when the change actually happens.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you know, I think we've all been there and hopefully a lot of us have come out of it but sometimes we can be in the thick of it too that we're in the cycle and a lot of it comes down to, you know, wanting to have the last word or yes, wanting to tell your friends that, you know, there's not like wrong with you that like people are breaking up with you.
6:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how can you start to, you know, get confidence that like the right thing will work out and it's actually better to give it a try than to run away.
6:20
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, it was, it gets hard.
6:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I leave.
6:23
[SPEAKER_02]: For some people, you might be, it gets hard or you get emotionally vulnerable, you cheat or you might be that you talk to your friends and get that opinion that you shouldn't be with that person.
6:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So everyone will have a trigger that will start that behavior off.
6:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait a minute, I'm going to sabotage.
6:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to move on.
6:40
[SPEAKER_02]: The part where it becomes complicated and that's where the healing starts.
6:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It's as I said, looking at ourselves, getting inside of what that trigger is what that behavior is and stopping yourself in that moment.
6:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and I know I still have to do it with my husband.
6:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we have a fight and I will say something like, well, maybe we'll be better if we're not together.
6:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And he'll look at me and say, well, you're doing that thing again.
7:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's much easier to think of divorce, of to think of living than to actually face with the problem.
7:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes the problem is we need to talk about this.
7:09
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to change the way we are dealing with this.
7:11
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem might be raising our newborn or it might be finances.
7:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And for me it's like if I leave everything will be fixed.
7:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it won't.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: right.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And in your research, did you find that there were couples that really had no issues?
7:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually things were going better than normal, but someone is thinking, okay, this is too good to be true.
7:31
[SPEAKER_00]: He's probably going to cheat on me, so I'm going to treat him like he's probably going to cheat on me and then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
7:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how prevalent is that kind of scenario?
7:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't believe that there will be relationships that are absolutely perfect with no issues, but I did hear people say, this person is nothing like any of my other partners, they are loving, they do this, but I am expecting they will cheat on me.
7:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Or some people deliberately looking for faults that weren't even there, things like superficial things like haircuts, how they dress, one person even talked about the type of belt that person selected.
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think when we start looking that closely at, you know, our partner's fashion choices, perhaps it says more about what we are trying to do.
8:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And I get it, I sometimes have argument with my husband about, I usually want to wear this, we are going here, we are going there.
8:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But in this case, it was looking for anything that could justify that train of thought, this person is going to cheat or leave me or they are no good or they are just like my previous partner.
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then in that kind of scenario, if someone's just nitpicking at something, and this kind of reminds me of the four horsemen of the apocalypse by Gottman that you brought up, can you actually go over what those four horsemen are and how they can really sabotage a relationship.
8:52
[SPEAKER_02]: sure.
8:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So Gottman talks about for behaviours that inevitably will lead to the end of the relationship if you keep on enacting them without trying to fix the relationship.
9:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So the fence of this is the big one that we already talked about that is also criticism so constantly attacking your partner.
9:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And that neat, neat picking that we're talking about here is criticism.
9:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, it's being able to say, you do this, you do that, but again, not looking at what you were doing yourself.
9:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Another one and this is a really dangerous one.
9:22
[SPEAKER_02]: this is one where you could be at the end of the tether in the relationship and that's when you need to actually think about, oh, I could end this relationship like you're going.
9:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's content.
9:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's helpful when you have content for someone.
9:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's someone talking to you, pouring their feelings out and you're sitting there rolling your eyes going, oh, here he goes again.
9:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to listen to this.
9:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that like the number one indicator?
9:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It's over.
9:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It is an indicator that caution is needed.
9:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You really need to start repairing your relationship here because it's hurt for it.
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's playing hurt for the receiving end of content.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think for me, content is a red flag.
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to do something now.
10:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to sit down and start healing.
10:03
[SPEAKER_02]: If you really care about that person.
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially if you don't mean it, a lot of the times couples will talk about loving each other and they don't mean to be hurtful to be disregarding their partner's feelings but that's what contempt does.
10:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You just regard their feelings.
10:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You just regard what they're talking about.
10:20
[SPEAKER_02]: The other behavior that Godman will talk about that again, it's towards the end of that cycle is stonewalling, is when you actually shut down.
10:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people will shut down emotionally.
10:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they will be physically there and they will shut down emotionally.
10:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So it looks like they're listening but they're not.
10:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people will physically leave.
10:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So they might leave the room, they might leave the house, they might leave the relationship.
10:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to break down some of these and like how do you get out of this?
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're in this situation, like how do you as either the person that's doing it or the person that's receiving it, move forward, maybe like the criticism one we can start with?
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what if, like, you feel like you're getting nitpicked, but your partner sees it as helping you improve?
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you get through that conversation that, like, continues to fester and bring things to a bad place?
11:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You're very right, Julie, because people will say exactly that.
11:12
[SPEAKER_02]: They will say, oh, no, I'm just helping.
11:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just giving, you know, advice on, I'm just expressing myself.
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You're exactly about people who defend their criticism as a good thing.
11:21
[SPEAKER_02]: The one thing the Gottman talks about is that for everyone,
11:25
[SPEAKER_02]: comment or interaction that you have with your partner.
11:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you criticize them, you will need five positive interactions.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess if we're going to break it down, you need to say five good things about your partner in order to be able to heal the interaction.
11:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So
11:40
[SPEAKER_02]: It goes a long way.
11:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, to get up and say a lot of you, thank you for making me coffee, thank you for helping me with the baby.
11:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever it is, it goes a long way.
11:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially if we think about the fact that it checks five times more good interactions to stick than that one bad criticism.
11:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But why do people criticize in relationships?
11:59
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the intention there?
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: What is that coming from?
12:02
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a really good question again.
12:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So the reason why we do it is because we want to attack first.
12:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a way to defend.
12:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So if we are striking, we are not getting hit ourselves.
12:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And goes back to that self-defensive mechanism.
12:15
[SPEAKER_02]: We are feeling hurt, we are thinking, well, they are going to leave us or whatever it is.
12:20
[SPEAKER_02]: If I strike first, they are the ones hurt.
12:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I am a volunteer in that whole situation for myself.
12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is that mentality.
12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's fear driven for the most.
12:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's absolutely fear driven.
12:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like to say that, you know, criticism and defensiveness, it says a lot more about us.
12:37
[SPEAKER_02]: if we are the ones doing it, then it says about the first and receiving it.
12:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And this all stems to wanting to protect ourselves.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there is that intention embedded in the root of all of this behavior is I want to be the first to strike because I want to protect my heart.
12:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be the first to do something negative so that I can defend myself.
12:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm putting up a wall here.
12:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And you say something in your talk where we do what we do to protect ourselves, but we get hurt anyway.
13:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, can you explain a little bit more what that means?
13:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a very counterintuitive.
13:10
[SPEAKER_02]: The most powerful instinct that we have as humans is connection.
13:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So as baby, we want to connect with our caregivers and we might do that through nursing, through just hugs and interaction.
13:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But if we at any moment feel fearful or doubtful, that that won't happen, we switch to self protection.
13:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And that becomes the most powerful instinct.
13:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you think about it that way, we will do anything and everything to protect ourselves.
13:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But the catch is, and that's what I talked about in my TED talk, is that it doesn't work.
13:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't work how we think it will.
13:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we need love, we need that hug, we need that nursing, that we're so desire.
13:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So in the end, despite all of the self-protected mechanisms that we might try, if we end up alone and we've got a partner, if we hurt our partner, we are hurting ourselves and it doesn't work because that's not all we have one of the first place, we have one of the attachment, we want a connection and we didn't get it.
14:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And how often does this like happen?
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I feel like what I've talked to people about this.
14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yep, this is kind of part of the course, probably once the honey moon period is over a bit, some of the stuff starts to come out.
14:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes, how would you answer that and how could people maybe not go down this path?
14:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this would happen to anyone in a relationship and once the honeymoon period is over as we put it here, I think that's where it gets exciting, you know, because you get to know your partner, deeply and in the day-to-day, you get to know them when they tire, you get to know them when they're grumpy.
14:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we can find ways to connect,
14:43
[SPEAKER_02]: through the difficult moments and being vulnerable in that, I think that's where the beauty comes in and inform that was the hardest part because I was very good at connecting superficially, being able to say a lot of you, do the big gestures, the dates, but when I was feeling vulnerable, tired, grumpy, ugly, whatever it was, I wasn't able to connect, I wasn't able to let someone hug me through the ugly.
15:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So perhaps that's my advice, let someone hug you when you're not feeling pretty.
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Let someone be with you when you're not feeling your best.
15:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That's to me the most powerful moments.
15:19
[SPEAKER_00]: What was your turning point?
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you talk about your story of being a band-in-eper, so of course you have these self-defense mechanisms of believing the people will leave you, right, in relationships, and how did you overcome that?
15:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Or are you still overcoming that?
15:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to think that it's a lifelong battle because it's my am I. I feel vulnerable and I want to leave.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was lucky enough to find a partner that saw through if you excuse my language, the bullshit.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he saw through it.
15:49
[SPEAKER_02]: He knew I wanted to be loved because that was the truth.
15:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to be loved.
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to be hugged.
15:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to be with someone for the rest of my life.
15:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Mary had kids.
15:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted it all.
15:59
[SPEAKER_02]: He saw through that and whenever he would see me start to get a little bit
16:05
[SPEAKER_02]: He would call me on him.
16:07
[SPEAKER_02]: He would call the behavior.
16:08
[SPEAKER_02]: He would call the action that I was doing.
16:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, it was, it was him.
16:12
[SPEAKER_02]: He was being able to face that mirror and go, oh, I am doing that.
16:16
[SPEAKER_02]: He's right.
16:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't easy.
16:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I just liked being called out, but it was very helpful.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do people, okay, like if they're in this moment of like, I want to run or I want to criticize or I want to just be stone wall or whatever it is that they're turning to like, how do they take that pause and say like,
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to be honest with yourself, you've got to pause and say, is this about you or is this about your partner?
16:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Because as you said, in the beginning, if it is not a good relationship, then yeah, you should leave.
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But if this is a good relationship and you were the one getting restless because you were afraid, then you've got to face yourself in that moment and it's going to be very scary.
16:56
[SPEAKER_02]: because in the end of the day, there is the potential still that you might get hurt.
17:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So we could be sitting here saying, give it a go, give it a try, and you might do that and still get hurt.
17:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the scary bit that is no guarantee.
17:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And in never gonna get hurt, free guarantee, this relationship will work for you.
17:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Deal, that doesn't exist.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be lovely, but that doesn't exist, so you might be that you do everything right that you try your hardest, that you are vulnerable, that you face your fears and still doesn't work because that person wasn't the right one.
17:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You could be the that happens.
17:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like anybody listening to this probably can relate to some of that behavior, probably can see themselves doing that in previous relationships or current relationships.
17:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's important to kind of mention your view on this as a self-fulfilling prophecy.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to get into that a little bit more as a red flag for people to flag this behavior because it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
17:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you explain that a little bit more?
17:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, I am a firm believer that we as human beings are very intelligent and we can make things happen if we believe they will.
18:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where the self-fulfilling prophecy comes in.
18:05
[SPEAKER_02]: If you go into a relationship, believing your partner will cheat on you or leave you, I actually think you will make that happen because we are smart enough to put things into place to make it so.
18:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've seen it with my own eyes, I would go into relationships and I would do everything so that would happen.
18:21
[SPEAKER_02]: You put things into place, you argue with them, you scream at them and you send them away because that's why you believe you would happen.
18:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's what we need to be careful of is that if we believe in something that will absolutely come true because you will be enacting that action.
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So perhaps we should believe that we deserve to be loved, that love is for us.
18:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that deserving bit for me was the hardest one to believe.
18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I deserve it will happen.
18:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It will happen with the right person and I can do it.
18:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's not such a thing that is no one for me or I don't believe in that side.
18:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we need to change what we believe in.
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one thing we see this in early dating, too.
19:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you think you're going to get ghost in.
19:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You're constantly on the lookout for someone that's going to ghost you.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course you get.
19:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, what about the people in early stages that tend to pick the wrong people all the time?
19:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we definitely know of people like that.
19:16
[SPEAKER_01]: That just person after person is just not someone that's, you know, interested in a relationship or emotionally available, whatever it may be.
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, it's easy to blame it on that other person.
19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Why things never seem to work out?
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What advice would you have for someone in that boat?
19:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I would start by asking why they are selecting those people to go on a date with.
19:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is it common about those people that they are selecting?
19:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So it might be people that have on their profile, for example, that they are carefree.
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we keep on selecting carefree people and then we keep questioning, oh, I don't like those types of carefree people.
19:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Like people who plan, I like people who have a career all laid out for them.
19:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then why are we going for carefree people?
19:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's nothing wrong with that.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: If that's what you like.
20:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then we are selecting wrong from the start.
20:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess that's what I'm trying to say is right.
20:06
[SPEAKER_02]: What is it that we are looking for?
20:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And are we going for that?
20:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Or are we going for the complete opposite to justify that failure?
20:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's very easy to do that.
20:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And no, you won't find a good match if you're not looking for the right chain.
20:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes even in the profile, they would say, I'm not looking for a relationship.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we select, oh, that's a good idea.
20:24
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
20:24
[SPEAKER_02]: believe what they put in their profile, and don't think you're going to change them, look for what you want, and be brave in selection that.
20:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We've just had this guest in the past that got on this podcast for over an hour and talked about how they were not in the place to have a relationship, and you would not believe how many people reached out to this guest.
20:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we had all these other people saying that they were perfectly ready.
20:46
[SPEAKER_01]: No one reached out to them.
20:48
[SPEAKER_00]: No one.
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So I am convinced people like don't know what they want a lot of times or just maybe aren't ready to face it because I know for me like when I wasn't in a place of really being ready, I was picking the wrong people and focusing on qualities that didn't matter.
21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a great example.
21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And why if I'm looking for a relationship why wouldn't I reach out?
21:08
[SPEAKER_02]: to someone who is talking about, wanting a family, having values or whatever it is.
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Or even when someone told you they didn't want a relationship almost feeling like you needed to like win and prove them wrong.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if it didn't work out, you're like, oh well, it's them, it's not me.
21:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they told me that from the beginning.
21:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's also like why were you spending all this time?
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so much easier to go for someone that's just willing to be at a relationship.
21:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, people definitely complicate dating more than they should, especially with this wind lose mentality of like, I'm going to win this person over.
21:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to change their mind.
21:41
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my project.
21:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really fascinating.
21:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But Raquel, you do give us some hope here because you talk about three ways to get out of this cycle of self sabotage, insight, expectation, and collaboration.
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go into those three.
21:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
21:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe we can do it.
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe we
22:00
[SPEAKER_02]: really getting to know who we are.
22:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Take that mirror out full length, look at yourself, look at the ugly, look at the pretty.
22:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I used to believe for a long time that I'm ugly, then I won't love me, but I have a funny accent that I'm quirky, whatever it is, I would pick at everything.
22:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would take that to relationships.
22:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I would just get with people and once they told me that I was pretty, I wouldn't believe them.
22:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I would think that it's something wrong with them.
22:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And we need to face that we need to ask ourselves, why is it that we are so hurtful to ourselves?
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it that we are so mean to ourselves?
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And having a loving partner that saw through those behaviors and those attitudes was helpful to me because he would help me with that process.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: He would point it out, he would call me out.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But it doesn't mean that you have to do it with someone, you could do it by yourself that could be step one towards getting to know yourself towards trying your relationships, be truthful, be who you are, if they don't like you, well they're lost.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are clarifying questions, when you said that he would call you out, like what did he say exactly, like what happened and what did he say exactly to?
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: He even gets angry with me now when I say things he would stop me and say that's not true That's not true.
23:11
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you want out of that behavior and sometimes we we want attention?
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I truly believe that sometimes we victimize ourselves because we want attention because we want someone to say Oh come on, you know, let me look after you and he gets to a point where it's damaging So he would point it out and say you're doing this to get out of the situation.
23:30
[SPEAKER_02]: He got hurt
23:32
[SPEAKER_02]: and you're doing this to get out.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And he continues to do that, and I have to admit, sometimes, I still do it because it's easier.
23:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's easier to victimize ourselves.
23:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's easier to point mistakes and ourselves than to face the fact that we need to deal with a financial issue.
23:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to deal with
23:49
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, something in our relationships that it's not working out great.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so that's I could see like if you're a victim of, but like what if you're actually, you know, doing one of the things that we talked about earlier, like criticizing him or stone walling him, like will he call you out on those behaviors also?
24:05
[SPEAKER_02]: criticism is a hard one because we are hurting the other person so that will be harder for him to call me out because I'm physically hurting him which I think that I'm saying so that one is one that was still a struggle I have to stop and go oh that was hurt for why did I say that and that took me a long time to to realize and and I started to realize in his reaction in seeing him said
24:31
[SPEAKER_02]: There was no need for that.
24:32
[SPEAKER_02]: The action is not even true.
24:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's how I deal with it now.
24:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Stonewalling is something that he can help me with still because he will say, no, you're not allowed to live the room.
24:42
[SPEAKER_02]: We are finishing this conversation and look, that's not a perfect recipe.
24:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how people are going to do it in their own relationships, but it's figuring out a way to be in the moment and realize the triggers.
24:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is triggering that behavior?
24:57
[SPEAKER_02]: How are you acting once that's
25:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And whatever it is that you find that works for you.
25:03
[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's working on yourself really.
25:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not easy.
25:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It will take many trials.
25:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you think you can just do it in one argument in one fight and that will be done.
25:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that some realistic you have to continue to do that throughout your relationship.
25:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I've been together with my husband now for 12 years.
25:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And we still do it.
25:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We still stop arguments to say, oh, okay.
25:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That was helpful.
25:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I'm sorry.
25:27
[SPEAKER_02]: That was more about me than it was about you.
25:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start again from the receiving end of the sabotaging behavior.
25:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Your partner sabotaging you.
25:36
[SPEAKER_00]: There's one way you can call them out.
25:38
[SPEAKER_00]: What are other ways that you can just like let your partner know that they're doing this?
25:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually that's how we started.
25:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So I told him about all my previous relationships.
25:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I told him about my traumas, my fears.
25:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So I laid it all out for him.
25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I explained why I would act the way I would.
25:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So he had all of the history, all of the baggage.
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So he knew what he was getting into.
25:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess for him it was the knowledge, the confidence that I loved to him and I wanted to really work on this relationship and I needed his help.
26:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why I talk about collaboration.
26:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually needed his help.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I needed him telling me that I was doing it in the moment So I could stop and think and sometimes it doesn't work sometimes.
26:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so dipping the moment that I will be like, yeah No, you can't tell me what I'm doing and you can't tell me how to feel I guess my answer here is
26:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I laid it all out.
26:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I was honest.
26:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I asked for his collaboration.
26:26
[SPEAKER_02]: He's able to now help me, but being on the receiving end of all this sabotage is not easy.
26:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I keep telling him that he needs to write a book himself on how to do that on the receiving end.
26:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the
26:39
[SPEAKER_01]: confidence, but I feel like sometimes that can be really hard, especially in the early stage of a relationship, right?
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: To not take things personally or to, yep, really be like, I want to be with someone that really wants to be with me.
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they're saying things, then you start to doubt all that.
26:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you look at all the other actions, maybe?
26:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, the bigger picture, and not just the moment that feels like the sabotage.
27:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't have a perfect chance of that because it takes confidence, it takes a belief that that person loves you and I think that came from that very truthful conversation with him because I don't know that we could have survived with all of my tricks and maneuvers to get out of the relationship if I wasn't honest with him that I loved him and I was just not very good at being together with someone.
27:28
[SPEAKER_02]: He talks about this and he gets hurt in the process.
27:31
[SPEAKER_02]: He gets rejected a lot and I have to acknowledge that.
27:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes I will acknowledge that and say, I'm sorry that I hurt you.
27:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry that I rejected you.
27:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not what I mean.
27:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
27:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like this is a whole new episode how to be on the receiving end.
27:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I was so able to.
27:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Can two people with self-sabotaging behavior have a healthy relationship or are they just doomed?
27:53
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
27:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't actually think any combination is doomed because it goes back to me honestly, it goes back to that point where you can be truthful and vulnerable because you have done some so searching, you have digged, you have insight into who you are and I believe it starts with that conversation, this is who I am, this is who I act.
28:12
[SPEAKER_02]: What can we put into place for when things are triggered and the fire is on and everything's haywire?
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So is there a way to collaborate like when you're not in a long-term relationship?
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say it's an early relationship under three months.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a way that someone can use these techniques if they're feeling like this fight or flight mode?
28:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe that is one thing that I've used very, very early in the relationship was asking him to always reply to my text messages because love that.
28:43
[SPEAKER_02]: In that very early stage, people tend to play games.
28:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
28:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You text, they take a long time to reply and then you think, oh, do they like me?
28:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Do they respond?
28:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was honest with him and I said, I need to reply.
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if it's just I'm at work, control now.
29:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Got your message, you'll get back to you later about
29:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever it is, I just needed to be acknowledged so I didn't go into a spiral of that person left me.
29:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, even just sharing fair of abandonment early on is helpful.
29:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
29:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So is that part of, we talked about collaboration.
29:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You also talk about insight and expectation.
29:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Is insight part of that just giving more information about yourself?
29:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so, look, you've got to measure yourself, right?
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't be on that first date and telling them everything.
29:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Because oversharing is a real issue.
29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess you just have to you know step by step as you get into know that person as you feel like the subject has come up So for me it was being honest.
29:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not very good at commit interrelationships, but I'm willing to take this You know step by step and then the text message being came up for me because he worked night shifts
29:50
[SPEAKER_02]: at the time.
29:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was all over the place.
29:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I would message him.
29:53
[SPEAKER_02]: He would be at work.
29:54
[SPEAKER_02]: He would message me.
29:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I would be sleeping.
29:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So I said to him, I said, look, when you get it, can you just acknowledge?
29:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Or when you're going on the ground and you don't have your fine, can you let me know?
30:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And that really worked for me.
30:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I became less anxious.
30:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you are less anxious, then you start acting a bit more rational.
30:09
[SPEAKER_02]: but expectations is another big one.
30:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you go into a relationship, marriage, kids, and the other person is not there with you, that's not a recipe for successful engagement.
30:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's again being able to have that conversation where are we at with this dating with this engagement.
30:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Your example really displayed all three so beautifully inside expectation and collaboration.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: The insight is I have the self-sapotaging behavior.
30:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I may do this X, Y, and Z.
30:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And the expectation is I expect that you to reply to my text messages as soon as you get them or just keep me updated.
30:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And the collaboration is I hope you will call me out on my behavior when you see it.
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Love it.
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: All three things beautifully wrapped up in exactly what you've been doing with your husband and I hope we can take that to our own relationships because I had to jot those down.
31:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I got to get the insight part down.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that though, though, because I feel like so often we're afraid to say.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: you know what's going on for us and it makes us look needy or it makes us look undesirable and I think the way you just said that was very vulnerable of anything so I think it's not what you say it's how you say it I mean that's clearly a theme that always persisted at our episodes but I think what you just said was living proof that you can say things in a way that can make you feel closer to someone absolutely my husband has a saying and I don't know if I can repeat it
31:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything can be taken two ways.
31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've talked about seem needy, right?
31:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you are with someone that perhaps is not into you and you do certain things, they might look at you and go your needy.
31:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But if they are into you, they might look at and say, Oh, this is loving.
31:53
[SPEAKER_02]: This is caring.
31:54
[SPEAKER_02]: This is so true.
31:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, true.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we need to get over.
31:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that feel seeming this or that because if we act with the right person, they're going to get it.
32:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that goes for date like three and three years in 30 years in.
32:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like that doesn't ever change.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the right person will meet you where you are and it's a filter it away to find that right person by being authentic and being true to yourself.
32:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so because I can look back at lots of things that I did in my first second and third that and go, that could have been very an idiot, very off-putting, but it wasn't to him.
32:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess that's finding the person who will get it, who will see where you're coming from.
32:39
[SPEAKER_00]: From all of your research with all these couples, what are some of the most surprising findings?
32:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's surprising, but it was very heartbreaking to read testimonies where people would feel very similar to how I felt just ugly, unaccepted, unloved.
32:56
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of testimonies from people who were questioning their identities, so they denied their gender, they didn't know their sexual preferences, but they knew who they liked and they were afraid of not being accepted
33:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I read countless testimonies of people saying, I feel I won't be accepted.
33:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not surprising, but it's really something that I believe we need to keep looking at.
33:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it goes back to that attachment that need to be with someone.
33:27
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we want in the end.
33:29
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to be with someone.
33:30
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to be accepted by that other person.
33:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And if that doesn't happen or if we think it won't happen, I'll protect myself then.
33:37
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the alternative.
33:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that if we look at that acceptance,
33:40
[SPEAKER_02]: before it becomes fear and self-protection, maybe we can change things.
33:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you've given us so many tidbits of ways to get through this, but if someone is in this position right this minute, what is kind of like the number one thing you would tell them if they're the one feeling like the sabotage are and then maybe the one that feels like their partner is being the sabotage are.
34:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
34:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if I go back to the example about the person feeling, or this one particular person feeling that they wouldn't be accepted, what was surprising, I guess, for me was that they hadn't had any interaction with that person yet.
34:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So they were questioning, you know, gender and sexual identity, and they knew the way involved with this particular person, but they hadn't told them.
34:23
[SPEAKER_02]: They hadn't had any interaction to suggest that they wouldn't be accepted by that one particular person.
34:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So it goes back to their previous experiences.
34:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We're telling them that that would happen.
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that's why they believed it.
34:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess my advice for that sub-tour is, I know your previous experiences are telling you something, but you don't have hard evidence that this will be repeated.
34:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the truth, isn't it?
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't always have that hard evidence, but we look at previous experience to tell us.
34:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And that might be helpful, but it might be very helpful as well.
34:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean that's great advice because I think that is how we like to justify what's gonna happen next but especially in relationships.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times your relationships don't last or the dates don't progress.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so if you're just always looking back on the past that's not really an indicator of the future so I totally I think that's a great piece of advice for people.
35:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe that if we were to ask the other person on the other end, they probably would be completely unaware of the whole situation.
35:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the truth of it.
35:22
[SPEAKER_02]: They probably didn't even know, perhaps they were into the person without knowing, but we assumed all these things and that can be very dangerous.
35:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they always say they're like four people on a date, right?
35:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's you in your physical body, them in their physical body and like who they think you are next to you and who you think they are next to them.
35:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree with that.
35:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little crowded.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, too many people all that day.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But also it's like you think about all your fears and anxieties and you don't think about whatever someone else is going through ever.
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And you'll probably find they've got the same fears, they want to work through them as well, they are feeling needy, they are feeling weird, they're feeling quirky.
36:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this has been such an enlightened conversation.
36:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully people that are listening that a viewer felt this way before or going through it current day can learn a lot.
36:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think my biggest takeaway, I mean, there's a few that would
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: come to mind.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But one, this just seems to be a recurring theme in a lot of episodes we've done in the last season of just how much fear gets in the way of everything.
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And it can take things that are really good in self-serving for you and convince you otherwise.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really important that we're having these conversations and helping people identify what's actually happening.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't let fair get the best of you.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's one thing that really stood out.
36:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And I loved what you said to about like, we choose what we believe in.
36:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's such a powerful statement because, you know, if we choose to believe that we're not worthy, we're unloved, then we're gonna act in ways that sabotage.
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: until we can make the decisions and choices that we do deserve it, then that will get less in our way.
37:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's really important for people to remember is, while there might be a thought in your mind that keeps popping up, it doesn't mean that it's accurate in any way, and it's your decision if you want to choose to believe that, or recognize that it's coming from somewhere else.
37:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a really challenging thing to do sometimes to separate.
37:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is this thought coming from?
37:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's my biggest takeaway is this idea of the self-fulfilling prophecy.
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Our minds are so powerful that if we believe one belief, then that feeds into our actions.
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: If we have to remember that, it's a one-two process.
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Our minds think of one thing and then that is what informs our action.
37:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So we believe this way about ourselves or about our partners.
37:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, our actions are going to follow suit, and that's a very dangerous place to be if your mind is not in the right place and it controls the wrong actions.
37:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, I feel like to be able to take control of your mind and really step back to think, do I truly believe this or is this from a previous relationship, a previous trauma that's feeding into this information?
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I always think about this idea of how you would act differently if you were given different information.
38:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, for example, for all of the data is out there, what if someone told you your person's right around the corner today, how would that feed into a different action for you today?
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Versus, I'm going to tell you now, the next person you're dating is going to cheat on you.
38:29
[SPEAKER_00]: How
38:29
[SPEAKER_00]: with that feed into your actions, treat them totally differently and then the worse you treat that person because of this preconceived notion, the worse the relationship gets and that's when you get into that cycle of the self-fulfilling prophecy.
38:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just have to keep that in mind that our brains are just so powerful.
38:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard.
38:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a hard thing to kind of come to terms with that it's you that could be sabotaging your relationships and your dating life.
38:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I think
38:56
[SPEAKER_01]: other people or the apps or your city or whatever you go to.
39:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's so much power of taking accountability, you know, owning it because ultimately we said this shows up for everyone and it's up to you to figure out how you're going to deal with it.
39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you going to be the couple that lets this continuously become a thing and stand in the way of happiness or you're going to get ahead of it when it starts to come up because now you know where it's coming from.
39:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And that word deserving, Raquel, when you said it, I mean, that it's just so powerful to think about because we all get in our own minds where we think we're not deserving of the love that we've been seeking.
39:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And that feeds again into our actions.
39:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I recently watched the stand up special with Taylor Tomlinson, who's an amazing comedian.
39:43
[SPEAKER_00]: She's in her 20s and going through all of this.
39:44
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a self-sabitor and she's sabotages all of her romantic relationships where she gives an example of a guy's like, oh, you're really beautiful.
39:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, you must use that line on all the ground.
39:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like that must be your thing.
39:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, she's like, we could be 80 years old on our death that's holding hands and I'm still thinking this guy's a fuck boy.
40:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is this thing.
40:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, well, if you think everyone's a fuck boy, right?
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
40:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all you see.
40:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I sometimes forget that we need to be accepting of all the good things that are happening.
40:15
[SPEAKER_00]: If someone treats you well, don't hold back and think, oh my gosh, this is different than every other relationship.
40:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to be like more open to that experience because there's a reason why this is different from your previous relationships because this one may actually work.
40:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love what you said too, is like, there's no guarantee that you're not going to go.
40:32
[SPEAKER_01]: No, there isn't, but there actually is a guarantee if you're the one that's doing it.
40:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You absolutely do rise.
40:38
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
40:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a guarantee.
40:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You are sabotaging it that you are going to destroy it.
40:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd rather roll the dice and see.
40:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully the other 50% makes it work.
40:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I do too.
40:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Rather than you driving it into the ground yourself.
40:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic.
40:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope this is a very empowering episode for people.
40:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
40:55
[SPEAKER_00]: That this is in our control.
40:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for caring for doing all the research and
41:00
[SPEAKER_00]: For people to, I see that you have a few more research opportunities coming up for people to get their hands on that or they want, maybe want to participate, where can they find you?
41:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Just go to my website, so recalepule.com and I'm often posting links to my researching there.
41:19
[SPEAKER_02]: There is also ways to contact me for researching interviews, so yeah, my website is the best place to go.
41:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful.
41:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, anything else, any last words for listeners, stop sabotaging.
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Give it a go.
41:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Stop sabotaging.
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I like having empathy for the sabotageers, too.
41:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to say that it, like, it should come from yourself.
41:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But have you a little more empathy of where it's coming from?
41:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It goes a lot way too.
41:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess just do it in the sense that
41:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't wait for the right moment to start looking at yourself.
41:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not changing yourself.
41:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Give it a try.
41:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't wait for that guarantee.
41:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Just do it.
41:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't need to be perfection overnight.
42:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Just one percent overnight.
42:02
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, one percent.
42:04
[SPEAKER_00]: One percent.
42:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, it's a lifetime of work.
42:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like everything gets resolved all of a sudden.
42:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We just keep working towards it.
42:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep working because you deserve the love that you want.
42:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
42:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We deserve the love.
42:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And we are so grateful for you.
42:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we deserve you, but we are very grateful for your time on our show.
42:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to the psychology of relationships today.
42:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't miss an episode.
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.