Latest / The b.reathe Blueprint Podcast / I Could Be Here Today, Gone Tomorrow
Transcript
- Katie: Welcome to the b.reathe Conversations. This The Tolicious Brand: I think it's Katie: series explores how people operate as responsibility, ambition and pressure grow over time. These are not burnout stories and they're not about fixing anything. They're calm, honest conversations about awareness, capacity and what actually helps performance last. Today I'm joined by Cass. Thank you so much for being here. How are you? The Tolicious Brand: All right, Katie, and you? Katie: I'm good, thank you. Why don't we start with telling me and the audience a little bit about yourself and what you do? The Tolicious Brand: No. Well, I'm Cass UK and I well I was I'm gonna start from the beginning by the way, so we're not missing out anything at all. I was born in Nigeria, in a small town in the southeast part of Nigeria. So my mom she is a midwife, so she had like a small maternity and she would like help him and deliver babies and then it was much more than that because they would come with the family problems and she would help with all of that. So I grew up in that area. And what happened is like when I finished high school, I wasn't sure of what I wanted to do. In terms of like, do I wanna go into entrepreneurship? Do I wanna do nursing? What is it I wanted to do? I wasn't sure. But one thing is like I wanted to be able to help people. So I remember at the time my mom was living in the Caribbean in Dominica and she was working as a midwife, you know, and then she called me one day and she's like, What do you wanna do? I I I And she said anyway, you know what? I've got two options for you. It's either you come to Dominica to do nursing because you're taking nursing students at the moment, or you can go into medicine in Nigeria. Whichever one you choose, you're gonna have that foundation to be able to help people in the future. And you can also go ahead and do what you wanna do, but this is the foundation I'm offering to you at the moment. So I chose the option that got me to travel to Dominica. So that's how I ended up in the Caribbean island. So I lived there for almost ten years. I did my bachelor's degree in nursing. I worked at the hospital for for about a year and then I moved to London. So I lived in London for for two years or so. So I worked in care home, private hospital. My first job in a care home was like a a team manager, so I would I was a team manager, but I wanted more. I wanted to progress. And I ended up in NHS in Newcastle. So what happened is like when I was at the hospital, I realized like a lot of people would come in at a crisis point and there wasn't enough education out there to let people know how they can be able to take care of themselves at home before ending up in that crisis point. And I realised, you know, why don't we do something about this? And that's how Tolitios came about. So with Tolitios as well, it's a lot of preventative information about how to put yourself first, how to self-care of for yourself as well. Especially as women, 'cause most of the times we neglect ourselves, we put everyone else before us as well. which is what I saw first time in our patients and in my colleague as well. And that's how Tolisha started. So we are based in Gateshead and we're scaling at the moment and this is who I am. That's the story. Katie: Wow, it's an incredible story and it sounds like you've gone on quite a journey to end up where you have. Obviously you walked away from quite a secure career as an NHS nurse and you pursued entrepreneurship, which isn't always easy. It's definitely got its own challenges. But what was the tipping point where that load of the nursing career actually caused you to move over to entrepreneurship? Was it a person that you met? Was it just the build-up of things? The Tolicious Brand: So I started Tolitios alongside working as a nurse. So I was doing both at the same time. But obviously it comes with these challenges. Like I'll finish work and then I'll come home, pack others. And so it wasn't a full time, it was like a side hustle for me with Tolitios. And what happened is like, but that's I knew that that's what I want to go do full time. But obviously I've got the job security with with nursing and NHS and I also passed my anchors. I got offered a job to move to the US. but what happened is like I had a life changing moment almost two years ago. on the sixteenth of August, I almost lost my life and my my newborn's life as well. So I was I had to be rushed to the emergency section, had my baby, had blood gushing out of me, and I think that was the moment when I realized, you know what, life is too short. Why don't you just go for what you want to do? And that that was it. That was it. So I after giving birth I was off maternity leave and I went back for fuel shift and then came back and that was it. I went into Tony Shows full time. So that was the tipping point for me. I knew I wanted to go into the entrepreneurship, but also it's like it this this is it. There's a lot of women out there or men out there, people out there are also stuck in a job where they're not happy. But because of the job security, because of all of that, this is why it was difficult also for me to live. But when I realized, you know what, life is short. I could just be here today, gone tomorrow. I just decided to go for all in for what I wanna do and that's I haven't looked back. I'm all in full time with Tony Shores at the moment. Katie: Wow, what a life changing moment. And I I hope you're doing well now. The Tolicious Brand: I am, of course I'm doing well. I actually wrote a book about it. I've you know, my son is you know, his he's one hundred percent okay, so yeah, definitely. Katie: Amazing. And I bet that taught you about resilience and overcoming challenges as well. It sounds like quite an ordeal. And then you were obviously being relied on by a a young newborn as well. that must have been quite an ordeal to go through. The Tolicious Brand: It is, it is. And also it's like people don't realise how much your life changes after you have you've had a baby. You also have the postpartum journey as well, which post badom depression, your life just changed. You have this newborn, you have this new human being you have to take care of as well. Plus I've just come up from a traumatic experience of childbirth and all of that. But it is something that literally was a light bulb moment for me and I realized, you know what, I need to just go all in and be able to help people with my brand if that's what I wanna do. And it is amazing. Katie: Absolutely. And you mentioned that you actually started Tilicious while you were still working full-time and that requires quite a lot of energy. How did you manage the pressure of building a business and working full-time without actually burning out yourself? The Tolicious Brand: Well, I'm not gonna lie to you, I had burnout. I had Katie: Okay. The Tolicious Brand: a burnout at some point, I did. But I think the burnout came mostly from my full time job and I experienced burnout mostly when I started working with NHS. most of the time people think like burnout is like burnout doesn't come because you're doing too much of things, by the way. Burnout comes mostly because you are doing something and you expect a result and you're not seeing that result. And that is something that I noticed like wise working with NHS because I had this expectation of like what taking care of people should be, and coming from a private sector to a national health service, and also having you know that goal of I want to build a wellness brand, I want to be able to do this with you know helping people. I wasn't seeing that within the national health service. I think that is what where my most burnout came from. So that that is it. And yeah, so that's what that's that that that was it. That is where I got my most bono out from. Katie: It it can be tough, especially starting a business. I I mean I've been there myself. I've I've done it myself as well. And you learn a lot of lessons as you go through there. And your tagline is self-care is not selfish, it's survival. And I I really like that. in the brief community we talk a lot about women holding everything together until their health actually pays the price. And I can imagine you saw quite a lot of that as a nurse. So How did that shape your understanding for the preventative wellness for ambitious women like yourself? The Tolicious Brand: Yes, yeah. So the thing is like self care is not selfish, it's survival. This was coined from not just the women around me, not just from me, but from my mother's experience, from my grandmother's experience. And I see this quite a lot where we women we're like, you know, we can do it all. We're like the superwoman as well. We don't wanna ask for help. And sometimes is is not o is we don't have the option to ask for help. Don't don't get that wrong. But I think like at some point our health comes back to pay for it. And I think like if you can take a a brief step back to to say, you know what, today I'm just gonna take care of myself and that's what it is. I'm just gonna be me. It's gonna be all about me. We can be able to to do much more better. We can be able to, you know, pour more because we keep on trying to pour from an empty cup and we cannot be able to get a more out of it. We can never be able to squeeze more out of it. And a good example is like my mom, Well, my parents have seven seven of those, like six boys, and I'm the only girl as well. And I say this as well with my mom's generation where this is what it is they get into the marriage, the key for to the marriage, the keyboard, they have kids, the key for my mom was a working mom as well. She's she's got a mid you know, her her own midway free practice in Nigeria well when I was growing up as well. So she gave all of this, her children, her marriage, she gave to the women that was coming to deliver babies. She so she was giving and giving and giving and I could see Right now in reflection as an adult, like I could see that frustration, but she was h h holding it all in because she kept on giving and giving to everyone else but herself. So I I think we need to take a step back as women and be able to put ourselves first at some point so we can be able to to thrive. Katie: Definitely. And I think that the someone said this to me once is the best gift that you can give someone else is the best version of you. And it's one of my favourite things. Is it's true, like when we're not in a good mood and we are tired and we're drained, we become snappy. We're not the best people to hang around. I know I'm not. I'm definitely not a good person to hang around when I'm tired. So The Tolicious Brand: Yes. Katie: it is it's such an important message, especially for the women out there who carry that invisible load and they are carrying a family, they're carrying the home, they're carrying everything around them, but there's no one carrying them. So it can be The Tolicious Brand: Yeah. Katie: very difficult. what's the most common misconception that you see women make when they try to balance everything? The Tolicious Brand: Ooh misconception. I think we we think like this is this is who we are. That's what it is, you know. This is this is my role. I I I I I'm I'm supposed to do it. You know, that's what it is. For a a good example, I I always have examples. For example, it's like I had I had my baby, I came back home, I'm a I'm a new mom, right? I'm a mom. I made a decision to have kids. But I realized you know what, I still need help. So I asked for help. So my mother-in-law got involved, my mom got involved, even my dad got involved as well. Everyone came around to support. I didn't have to bear it all alone and say, you know what, it's my responsibility now. I'm the I'm the one that had this child. I have to be able to, you know, do everything and carry it and all of that. So we we we need to ask for help. We also need to also go look outward as well and look at other communities. There are a lot of supporting supportive communities around where we are or or you know, to to be able to ask for help. There are mom communities out there as well. We can lean towards and be able to to ask for help. That's what it is. Don't ever feel like you you know what it's my it's me, it's me that brought this baby to the water. I have to be responsible, I have to do everything, ask for help. Ask for help. That's what it is. Katie: I love that. Yeah. I just r recently recorded a podcast with a lovely lady called Ailey, and she had a very similar message is that like ask for help. There's no shame in in asking for help. And it it's one of the most powerful things because we're meant to have communities as humans, but society has managed to push us all away and cause The Tolicious Brand: Yeah. Katie: cause issues. And yeah, asking for help really brings those communities back together. It's very powerful. Now, both of us, we've both used our stories to create our brands and create these businesses, and that obviously means that we're much more passionate about it as well. I know that you're helping other ladies turn their challenges and their struggles into businesses as well. So what how can someone's story become their biggest business advantage rather than something that you have to feel that you're hiding or ashamed about? The Tolicious Brand: I love that question. I love that. I love that. Because what happens like most of the times we go through things in life and we'll think, you know what? That is it. I'm broken. I cannot be able to get out out of this. But there is there's the light at the end of the tunnel where you can look at it from a positive light and say, you know what? I can be able to use this to inspire someone else. But most of the times we don't know how to do it. This is where the challenge comes in. We don't know how to do it. A good example could be You know, someone like me that is in nursing where I was burnt out, I I wanted to see change and what did I do? I decided to create a wellness brand to be able to to bring about the change that I want to see in the world. That is number one. number two as well could be someone like we had a an interview with a police officer as well. She was in the force for almost thirty years and she picked up a lot of resilience, a lot of things, you know. the during the the you know, the period where she was working. In the police force, she also lost a child. So she's been through a lot of traumatic experience in her life. And what is she doing now? She's doing coaching. She's coaching other people that are going through the same thing to be able to come out from the other side. So there are different ways we can look at it as well, using your pain to empower other people after you've heard from it. Katie: Wow, very powerful. Is there anything that you miss about being a n an active nurse or are you fully in the business now, kind of no regrets, or is there parts of it that you do miss? The Tolicious Brand: they're a part of it, but they are part of fit I do miss. Yes. I I mean like with my last job in the NHS, I loved the the ladies I worked with. It was amazing. It was it was a good group of ladies. And moving from London to Newcastle where we didn't know anyone. So my husband and I we literally moved from London to Newcastle. So they became my family, they became my community. So definitely I missed that part. But what I don't miss is the system. I think most of the things that's happening is the system, the way things are structured and all of that as well. So that's what it is. And I also miss like, you know, having this one-to-one, because the type of nothing I did was like I love having a chat with my patients. I love you know going through that process as well. So I miss that part, but I'm doing that with Tolitians, by the So with Tolitians, I go on live stream, I speak to my customers, I speak to my clients as well. But the most important thing I miss is having that community with the ladies, nonsense that I used to work. Katie: It does make a difference, doesn't it? When you're suddenly working for yourself, you kind of miss that group of people that you hang around with all of the time and like you're not in an office with a load of people anymore either. So what was the hardest part of the shift going from an employee to a founder? And did you have any like imposter syndrome? Was there a fear of stepping into your own power? How did that go? And what What type of ladies do you tend to attract and work with now with your background? The Tolicious Brand: Yeah. I think it's a mindset as well. So having that shift, going from nine to five to C O mindset, because you can have imposter syndrome, everyone has imposter syndrome. sometimes people see me face to face, like, my gosh, you've got so much confidence. But I do have imposter syndrome where I walk into rooms and I'm like, you know what, are you sure I I I I fit into this room? But the thing is like I think about you know what, I think I deserve it because I've worked hard, I want I know what I want to also achieve. So therefore, whatever whichever room I step into, I feel like I deserve to be in that room, especially if I have something to bring. And the shift, the shift is also like I said, like the the CEO mindset, where I have to turn off, like, okay, you know what? I'm no longer working as a nurse. Now I'm also on my own. I'm also the CEO. I have to make the decision. I have to be I don't have to escalate to any doctor or to any senior nurse or to anyone's sister. I'm the management. And this as well, and also other people have to rely on me to be able to make that decision to be able to move the company forward. So it it it comes with its own challenge, that's what it is. But definitely it's something that I love doing. And they say, do what you enjoy. How they say it, do what you love and you will never work for a day. That's what it is. Do what you love and you will never for work for a day. So I'm doing what I love, so I don't look at it as job or work. I look at it as something that I'm doing. It's a purpose. I'm fulfilling my purpose in life, and that's what it is. And to answer the other question, what type of women am I attracting at the moment? I'm I'm attracting mostly women, you know, which is good as well. So, and also women that are at the stage where they are stuck, they are trying to make a change. They are trying to also move from the nine to five to build something for themselves. They are trying to also like scale their brand, they've started their brand, but they don't know like what else can I do? How can I be able to make more money with this? How can I be able to refine it as well? For example, the last consultation I had a few days ago was a lady, she's a tricologist, and she also rents chairs in different saloons to do people's hair. She also has her own hair bonnet brand, but she's trying to get into a space where she can be able to compatize everything and be able to go into coaching and teach people and bring her knowledge of tricology instead of like just being a hairdresser. So I was I was that that's the kind of conversation I love to have. I was like, that's amazing what you do. So these are the type of women I tried as well. And then I and that lady as well I was speaking to a few days ago, she is also a cosmetics consultant for a a sweet company, a s company in Switzerland, but she realized her job is nine to five and five to nine. So there's no rest in between. She's doing everything and she's trying to use the knowledge she's got already. to be able to use it to build her own company. And she actually she saw me speak on the stage and she walked up to me after and she said, I want you to mentor me. Like I was like, how do you know? I actually have a mentorship you know, group where I mentor women. So so this is a kind of these are kind of women I'm attracting at the moment and being able to support them and I love it. I love it. Katie: It sounds very empowering and very rewarding as well. That helping someone into the next stage of their journey is always such an inc incredible journey to witness. And when you do see that transition finally happen, it's like you're just their biggest cheerleader, right? The Tolicious Brand: Yeah. Yes, that's what it says. Yeah. Katie: Now, obviously, helping other people in their journey can also be quite difficult. There's often challenges they have to overcome, and the emotional load that that can put on you can also be quite high. Coaching isn't something that just kind of happens overnight. It's a it's a long term thing. How do you deal with the load that others kind of put on you? Like it's a I always believe coaches are quite empathetic. They feel quite deeply, and that's how they help people. progress. The Tolicious Brand: Yes. Katie: So how do you deal with the the emotional load that people bring? The Tolicious Brand: I mean like f that is not that is not new to me. I worked as a nurse for almost ten years. So I it's like I say I ha I stopped working as a nurse in the hospital, but that doesn't mean the mission has changed. The mission hasn't changed. I'm still helping people. So I understand the emotional aspect that comes with it. And also it's just like you know, like everything, I I pick and choose the people I work with, you know. So if I feel like I cannot be able to help you move forward in your business There's no need to tell you, okay, sign up and come and work with me. So I that's why we do we have like an assessment, just like in nursing, we'll do our assessment and stuff. So we'll do assessment and then realize you know what, that's the person I can be able to work with and help you in your business. So therefore, it also doesn't feel like a job or work for me. So because of this, I enjoy doing it, so therefore, I can be able to manage the emotions and all the baggage that comes with it. Everything comes with baggage, no matter whatever job or work or stuff you find yourself, it comes in the baggage. But if you enjoy doing it, then it's no longer work. It just it just flows. That's what it says. Katie: Absolutely. And entrepreneurship is often sold as a path to income and replacing your income, getting out of the day job, but I know that you focus quite significantly on impact and legacy. So how does focusing on legacy change the way that you carry the responsibilities of running the businesses? The Tolicious Brand: Amazing, that's a very beautiful question. So this is where we go deep dive in and be very, very honest. Okay. Entrepreneurship is not for everyone. And sometimes people you know, make it look so fancy, so nice. You get in and you make all this money and all of that, but it's much more than that. And some people go into business, they never make make the money. They it can even keep on losing and losing and losing until they lose their business, they sold their business, they go into liquidation. So They the the di the part to look at it as well, which is where I focus on is like, is this something that is gonna transform another person's life? Is this purpose? Does it have any purpose behind it? Is this something that I would be proud to leave for my children, for my grandchildren? That's where the legacy comes in. So if it's something that I can yeah, and that's where Toliticious comes in and most of the businesses I coach with and mentors well, businesses like that that I see, you know what, that is something. For example, there's a lady with turned down the other day, she We realize the business she's trying to get us to mentor her in is like a pyramid scheme kind of business. But I was like, no, that that's not something I want to get into, you know. So that's what it is. So entrepreneurship can come with its up and down, but it's about finding the purpose. And once you have the purpose, the money can come after. That's what it is. Because again, people are buying from people. People are no longer that the the market is saturated. There is a lot of people there selling skincare, hair care, you know. What makes yours different is like what what is it? What is it about you? What is the purpose behind what you're doing? And that's the businesses that are gonna stand the test of time. That's what it is. Katie: Definitely and it all it all comes back to people's morals and values as well, doesn't it? I'm very similar to you in that I'm quite picky and choosy with who I work with and I wanna make sure that what I'm doing for them is gonna benefit other people as well. And it doesn't just all come back. I'm a big believer in karma as well. I don't know about you, but the I definitely don't want any bad karma coming my way. The Tolicious Brand: Yes. Yes, I do. Yes, yes. I wanna be on the good side of Kama, on the good side of the law book. So this is this is it. Katie: Definitely, definitely. So if you could look back at the version of yourself who was working full-time in the NHS while building Tilicious, what is the three things that you would tell her to put down? The Tolicious Brand: I'm gonna t tell her to put down overthinking. I'm gonna also tell her to put down fear. Okay. I'm gonna also tell her to trust more in her instinct because I realized as well you know also it's like I I didn't study business I went into business I just wanted to do something or just I started looking for people that could help me do this as well. And instinct is very very powerful and big in business as well because it tells you like if you listen to your instinct if you've if you've got that's people that don't have big instincts by the way but then if you up I no I'm not gonna say that. Everyone have their instinct, but there are people that don't listen to their instinct, they just jump right into it. That's what it is. So everyone have that little voice in their head, I telling No, don't do that. That's not good. So it's either you listen to it and tune into it and lean into it, or you don't, and this is where things go wrong. So I realize as well that most of the it's one of my instinct tell me, no, don't do that, don't do that. But then there's this other voice that says, just go ahead, just do it, just do it, just do it. And I listen to that voice, and things always go wrong. So after having Toledo for almost five years now, I have that better insight and I'm leaning towards it as well and I'm making less and less mistakes. You know, and I'm picking and choosing who I collaborate with as well in terms of like working with my business, and that is very, very powerful as well. That means I have less trouble, less sleepless night, and that my business can scale and grow in peace. Yeah. Katie: Definitely. And gut instinct is is real. Like I I know a lot of people that don't trust their gut all the time, but it it's a real thing and like serotonium, one of your happy hormones, it's all produced in the gut. So there's so much power in just trusting your intuition. what do the overthinking and fear mean to you? The Tolicious Brand: I think the overthinking is like, that's where it comes like, okay, you know, or if you leave your NHS job and you're going to do this, what if it doesn't work? What's gonna happen? people are gonna say you tried and you failed and all of that. But at the moment, who cares? Who cares? I still I have my license to practice in America, I have my pra license to practice in the UK. If I fell, I fell and I go back to my job, which I don't want to because I wanna be able to do much more than that. But I at least I tried. That's what it is. And also the fear, the fear of of failure. The fear of you know, my gosh. You know, all of that. That's what it is. But you just have to try. You just have to try. And I'm so happy that I tried. And we recently got funded, by the way, to scale the tools. So recently got funded. And also I was speaking about that on the podcast where I you know, I was speaking about how I got funded. I walked into this room and they were talking about funding and all of that. And I went directly to the main person that was, you know, speaking on the stage after and I spoke to him. I was shaking, you know, my hands were sweating, you know. And I went to him and said, By the way, I'm a nurse, but I no longer work as a nurse. And I started my Tolicious brand, which is what we're doing, and we have a lot of stock, and we're trying to pump money into marketing and all of that, and this is what I need. And people can see when you try it, people can see the passion behind what you're doing. And then he took out his phone and said, This is my personal contact. Send me a message and I'll put you through. a lot of people message me on LinkedIn, but you're gonna get lost on LinkedIn. So message me directly. And within within a few weeks, everything went in and we got the funding and we started selling the brand. So also the imposter syndrome comes with the fear as well. Where, you know, I was in that room and I was like, my gosh, am I even gonna get the funding? Are they even gonna listen to me? Are they even gonna What are they even gonna think? Are they even gonna think like, my god, she even serious? She's lo she left a nursing job to come and do this business. But I I overcome those imposter syndrome versus and I just went straight to the person and this is what it is. So fear. Katie: Definitely. Someone someone once said to me, fear stands for false expectations appearing real. And I think that that's one of the most powerful things I ever heard. Because nine times out of ten, what you think is going to happen or what you fear is going to happen doesn't actually happen. And it does make a massive difference when I've got that fear. But yeah, well done and congratulations for securing your funding because that's no small feat in business for sure. So big congratulations. I've got one final question. And that is for people that are maybe in a similar position to where you started, what top three tips would you give them to firstly scale, start and systemise their business, but also to actually stop themselves from burning out and putting everything else in front of them rather than themselves first? The Tolicious Brand: I say that's scale systemized, done burn out. So I'm gonna tell them to put in a system, you know. So the thing about business, like it's gotten easier to run businesses now than ever. And some people don't realize that, but I say this all the time because I grew up around business. My mom started a business and stuff like that. So it's easier to actually start scale a business now if you understand what you're doing. So for example, There is an automation out there that could like chase your clients, email them and follow up with them without you not being on the system there every day and emailing them and saying, Are you coming? Are you buying? So have these systems in place. And if you don't know how to do it, find an expert to help you to do it. It's gonna save you time, it's gonna save you money, and it's gonna save you from burning out. So that is the number one tip. Number two, as well, is like try to try to not overstock. Just not overstock. Try not to get no don't get carried away with the flashy things about business and stuff like that. Because something I see people do as well. It's like they start a business and they think think about okay, you know what? I'm gonna put this nice packaging in place. I'm gonna make it look so nice. So like compete with the big brands out there. Some of those big brands have been running for like 50 years. And you look at their history when they started, they don't have all those fancy packaging at the beginning. So try to simplify things as simple as possible. And it's gonna cost you less as well. And it's also gonna give you time to understand what is it that the market is looking for so you can be able to evolve and evolve and evolve. For example, when I started my brand as well with Tolishos, the tea, the tea, so you look at a lot of the tea brands I saw at the market at the at the moment. It's like they've got the tea, some of them are in a fancy box, in this as well, in a pop. And I realized, you know what, if I have to go that route, I'm just first of all, I'm gonna burn out my cash. And number two, I don't even know if my customers can be able to afford to buy. That at that price point for a brand that is just starting off. So it's how do I make it simple? But how do I bring it, bring it to the market, bring the quality to the market? Because again, if we have to do a deep dive into business, most of the times you're paying for the packaging, not the product. Okay. And if you have a good product, you bring that product to the market as well as a starter. You you bring a good product to the market, people use it, they love it, they're gonna come back for more and more. But if you have if you invest more money in the packaging and your product is rubbish, you've already killed a business. That's what it is. So I invested in the quality of the product I would bring into the market, but not so much on the packaging, but also a good standard package that people would see and would they would buy. And I found that that literally helped me in business. So my packaging is not that expensive, but my product was a good product. And we are now, after almost five years, we are now trying to bring a very standard beautiful package of of product we're gonna launch in in the next few months that's gonna cut called selfish a selfish box so this is gonna be like a premium packaging but I was just designing that the other day and I was looking at the design discussing it and I realized you know what I think it's time for us to bring out something like this something that people can call them their own you know like the Apple the Apple box you buy the Apple product you want to keep the box because of the packaging and stuff like that. So this is also the the thing, the psychology behind it. But at the beginning of starting your business, don't go right into that. Don't go right into bringing those nice packages. But almost five years. That's what we're trying to aim for at the moment. I hope I've answered all the questions, but this is what it is. Make sure that you are not overbuying. Make sure that you're not spending money in trying to make everything look so nice and fancy. And also make sure that you put six them in place so you don't get burnt out. Katie: I love that. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story so openly. Conversations The Tolicious Brand: Yeah. Katie: like this exist to normalise experiences that many people go through quietly as life and responsibility grow. If people want to reach out to you, how can they do so? The Tolicious Brand: Well Cass UK Online Cass with double S UK Online dot com. That's my website and we are on social media on LinkedIn, on Instagram, Facebook, and if you wanna check out the brand Tolicious, Tolicious with TO in the beginning, it's like delicious, but then T O at the front, Katie: Amazing. If anything in this episode landed, I'd love for you to do one of two things. Firstly, take the Success Hangover check-in using the link in the show notes. It takes a couple of minutes and it will show you exactly where your performance is costing you or grab a copy of my book or Cass's book. Mine is the Success Hangover, which you can find on Amazon. It is an Amazon UK number one bestseller. And where can they find your book? The Tolicious Brand: It's all also on Amazon as well, the Tolicious Way, the talk to body and live is available on Amazon. Katie: Brilliant. And if you found this useful, leave a review, share it with someone who needs to hear it. That is how we grow. I will see you next week and thank you very much, Cass. The Tolicious Brand: Thank you so much for having me, Katie. Thank you.