Latest / Callum Walker | Figuring It Out / [Special Guest Episode 54 - MJ Lennon] Are You Just Counting Reps? Here’s How to Become a Coach Who Transforms Lives

Transcript

[Special Guest Episode 54 - MJ Lennon] Are You Just Counting Reps? Here’s How to Become a Coach Who Transforms Lives · Callum Walker | Figuring It Out

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: If fear is the only thing stopping us from achieving our dreams and we only fear what we don't understand, then the antidote to fear is knowledge.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: All we have to do is find out who has the knowledge that we need to conquer our fears and achieve our entrepreneurial dreams. My name is Callum Walker, and welcome to the podcast that will help you figure it out and conquer this lonely entrepreneurial journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: You know, there's a clear difference between what a coach is and without being disrespectful to personal trainers, if we think about the term personal trainer and where that sort of came from, it's actually not a lot of people are aware of this but the fitness industry in itself is in quite its infancy. So what happened maybe around about forty years ago, just post bodybuilding revolution where Arnold and Lou Ferrigno and all these guys in Santa Monica, That all got really popular really quick, largely down to Arnold's popularity. And so celebrities there started investing in something called a trainer. Right? And then it became a personal trainer.
• 1:18
  Back then it was very much just, you know, like, bro sense, guys screaming at each other, kind of in each other's raps and everything else. And so without realizing it, the fitness industry has evolved way beyond that in the last forty years. But sometimes the term personal trainer can just be associated with that. As in, I've got this guy who watches over me or girl who just watches over me for the session and they make sure that I do my thing when in fact it's just gone way beyond that. And so I suppose the purpose of this conversation is, well, what has it evolved into?
• 1:59
  Here's a trend that I've seen throughout the years. You might have someone and they think to themselves, 'Alright, want to be a personal trainer and I want to show people exercise techniques and I want to make sure that doing things correctly and everything else. And I think it's always well intentioned. And then what happens is they get into the fitness industry and then they find themselves standing on the gym floor board, selling their time for money, counting someone's reps, losing the will to live. And it's like, okay, so we know that that's not sustainable.
• 2:29
  It's not sustainable for your clients because it's not creating independence, but it's also not sustainable for you because people are paying you not for your time, they're paying you for a result. And so that's largely what the industry has evolved towards. It's coaching. And so that's one side of it. But then the other side is just purely like the outside of the gym floor, which you're going to talk about as well.
• 2:53
  As in what are people doing with the rest of their week aside from the four and a bit hours that they're with you? How are you managing their lifestyle outside of that? Are you equipped to manage their lifestyle outside of that? Have you actually got the skills and tools required to inspire people, educate people, entertain people in a way that tells them stories that inspires them to stick with it? Despite And when they're feeling demotivated at times like this, the last quarter of the year, people start to fall off, stop adhering to the programme, what have you got in your skill set that keeps those people going, keeps those people turning up?
• 3:35
  And so this is what we try to get across as a company. There's more to it than just being a personal trainer I per actually think that term is gone. I really do. I think it's like people understand more and more what coaching is and I think they're trying to do better but they just haven't been prepared for it. At least that's what I see anyway.
• 3:58
  Do
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: you say as well in terms of cause I see you have personal trainer and coach are two completely different people.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: So you look at kinda like an identity of what a coach looks like. I immediately think of Martin Rooney with a fucking whistle. Like straight away. Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:19
  As a coach, whereas personal trainer, I think that you kinda for me, I look at the definition of a trainer, someone who is just training someone, who is just showing up and delivering an exercise session. Whereas wouldn't you say that kind of like the difference between a personal trainer or you know, of like, kind of sitting tight like this, a rep counter and a coach, is really centered around like the definition around a result. In terms of the, you look at the result that a personal trainer delivers, the result is an exercise session. Yep. Whereas the result that a coach delivers, well that's a completely different kind of ballgame.
• 4:57
  And again, look at like, I'm gonna simplify it down. I see a lot of things through films, through books and stories. You look at in films that whenever someone has a coach, they get them to that end result. Yeah, absolutely, but it's the transformation in the terms of the person that that individual then becomes off the back of working with a coach. So if you kind of look at like, for me anyway, that a personal trainer, like if someone feels that they are kind of stuck in that rut of being a personal trainer and wants to step into the identity of being a coach, I think it really does come down to, like you said there, having the tools and the skill set to be able to transform someone and actually take them from the place where they are to where they want to get to, but more importantly, equip them to then become the person that they need to become off the back of it.
• 5:53
  And I think that, I think the one thing I certainly underestimated when I first got into the fitness industry was the amount I had to learn about people. You know, I did a sports science degree first up and you know there was personal training qualifications within it. I got like biomechanics training in there. I had a shed ton of physiology and even psychology, like I did a sports psychology module. Even that, I was just kinda ladled with loads of terms that just I didn't really like imagery and visualization and I'm like, you try and get Karen to do some some imagery and visualization when she's, you know, kind of stressed the shit off the back of the fact that she's got five kids and three jobs.
• 6:36
  Like it just doesn't doesn't relate. You know, kind of, for me the one thing I really underestimated immensely and served as kind of a call to action of like, yeah, I really kind of need to change my approach here if I want to make this a career was really being able to understand people and then how I can take this knowledge that I have and apply that in a way that people can understand it. They can then take action and then also take action during times when they don't want to take action as well, which is like huge.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed, mate. Totally agreed. And I think even of the how I define a coach as a guide on the side. So it's very as a personal trainer, it's very reliant on a personal trainer, which again, I love PTs. Know, I get hundreds of them coming through our doors every year, but as soon as they walk through the door, I give them the definition of this, Hey, this might be what you came here for, but here's what you're going to evolve into.
• 7:40
  And so it's like, We're going to give you all of the things that you're going to need in order to evolve into that. Because, again, if it's not that like I say, I think the lines are very blurred now today in the sense of when people do get into the industry. So for example, years ago you just generally done this sort of standard, oh, you're a personal trainer now, you've done this PT course. And so what would happen very quickly is, as you just mentioned, people got into the industry and then they go through the sort of scenarios that I just mentioned where they find themselves on the gym floor, counting reps, selling their time for money and they think, Oh, there's got to be a little bit more to this. There's got to be better ways to do this.
• 8:27
  So very quickly the lines become blurred. Whereas there are people who get into the industry and they're like, I want to be a coach, I want be a strength conditioning coach, I want to coach athletes. But now, at least in my experience of late, your course should essentially set you up to do both and then let you make the decision as to what you think is going to be the best path for your future clients. Right? And that includes, you know, lifestyle changes, as you mentioned.
• 8:54
  That includes nutrition. Right? Because you'll know better than I will. I mean, I basically bypassed the nutrition on my PT course, but I mean, you know, what is courses out there setting people up for in that regard? Yeah.
• 9:10
  You know?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and wouldn't you say as well that then kinda like, you know, let's say that I'm someone who wants to get into the fitness industry. So I have this real bug for fitness. Like I really enjoy it myself. Maybe, you know, I've been in a job for a bit, I've been successful on paper, but just lacking that kind of fulfilment. You kind of see like an advertisement, for example, for like personal training course.
• 9:37
  Now wouldn't you say that kind of in terms of if we're talking about like becoming a coach versus a personal trainer, they're two very different destinations so to speak. Mhmm. So then if they're two very different destinations, then they're two very different kind of vehicles and routes that you can then sort of go. So in terms of like the personal training qualifications, I think the thing that kind of frustrates me and probably frustrates the hell out of you as well is that like, the ones that are prominently kind of available and easy accessible, really just kind of take you to the root of being able to kind of count reps. Yep.
• 10:13
  And that can then just leave someone kind of feeling like you said they're just wasting their time on the gym floor. Probably feel feeling incredibly unfulfilled. And then it kinda takes someone to have to kinda come around and be like, there is a different sort of way. But couldn't that be way too late? Yeah.
• 10:29
  For someone who's had their flame almost kind of like burnt out. So I think that the thing I love about you is almost like especially with the message within ECA and why you know, I'm so thrilled to be a part of it. It's almost being like, hey, like prevention is better than cure, you don't have to get to that place like the vehicle that we give you the route that we're going to take you down is actually about setting you up as a coach. So I can speak about the nutritional side of things. It's about giving you all of the skills.
• 10:55
  Yeah, we'll show you exactly what to do in the gym. But then also, you know, we're going to like bringing myself on board, for example, level you up from a nutritional point of view, give you all the skills that you need to help with your client in those 165 of the week outside of the gym. But yeah, I think that the point I'm kind of coming at there is that that if that has to kind of come down to you deciding what what you want your personal training career to to be or your career in the fitness industry to be and then choosing the right vehicle to get you there.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, mate. I suppose from staying on the nutrition side of things, what do you see as from a nutritional coaching standpoint versus, let's say, what someone receives on a basic bog standard course? Because I remember I said I bypassed the nutrition, and it was for a good reason. I was just like, I I ain't read nothing into no eat well plate. It's like, I'll figure it out myself.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: You know? Yeah. But that's the but that's the thing. Like, you look at a standard nutritional course, it'll cost you £700. Like, I could genuinely save you £700.
• 12:07
  Just go on www.nhs.co.uk/eatwell. You because I think the problem that because I went through PT course in my during my first degree. They had PT course on it. I remember the nutritional information education that was on there. And I remember this on my exam vividly, that there was a question which was multiple choice, which is how many portions of fruit and vegetable do the British government recommend every single day?
• 12:49
  And it was multiple choice. And I just remember sitting there going like, is this genuinely the level of education information that I need to go and put this on to my client? And I think the problem with with being a personal trainer or a fitness coach is that if you ask any person on the street, any person on the street, do you think your personal trainer knows or your fitness coach knows what you should be eating to get the result? And they'll go, well yeah, it's like expected. But you ask any any fitness coach who has been on any form of standard personal training qualification and ask them how much nutritional education information was available to them.
• 13:26
  It was one, bog standard and basic or two, it wasn't applicable. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, this is great, but what can I actually do with this information? So you know, and I've seen it come through social media through a lot of newly qualified coaches, where I'm sure you probably see it a lot. There's one classic post that everyone kind of puts out, which is if you're not losing weight, it's because you're not in a calorie deficit.
• 13:53
  That's like me and you saying, if you're not making money right now, it's because you have more money going out than you have coming in. And I'm like, okay, that's the fact, yeah, and I get it. But like what the fuck can I do with this? Like what can I actually do with this specific info? So I think it comes down to application more than anything.
• 14:12
  And I think the problem comes down to, it's interesting, go back to the school system. For me, it's interesting because me and my partner talking about this today. I remember for business studies, I did a level business studies and my teacher was 23 who had just come out of university. And I was like, how can I possibly be taught about business studies by someone who has only ever studied in higher education? So and I think that this kind of comes down to the problem and the challenge that you find that a lot of people are very quick to kind of get out of the I'm still coaching and they go right, I'm just gonna go and teach because it's easier.
• 14:48
  Well, they never really kind of liked it anymore. They acquired a load of info and then want to go and share it. And I think that especially in the nutritional industry, there's tons of it like and I know this could potentially kind of upset people, but I've met loads of nutritionists who are overweight. And I'm like, you can't you can't be like you can't.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: No.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: And that comes down to as well almost like you you might have all of the knowledge, but you obviously don't have the application, because if you did, you'd apply it to yourself. And that in all honesty is like I've coached coaches for quite a while now from nutritional point of view, the first thing I say to them is, I'm gonna teach you a load of facts, loads of information, but before you go and use this with any client, you apply it to yourself. You apply it to yourself, because then you have two things. There's a lot of impostor syndrome going around nutritionally, which I get. And I think first of all, does come down to a lack of education given to a coach from the first part.
• 15:45
  But then I think the other part comes down to that they're guessing about facts that are stored in their memory, Versus for me, I have absolutely zero imposter syndrome about my nutritional information, not because I'm smarter, not because I'm better, I've learned more. But every single nutritional strategy I've ever learned, I've applied to myself and understood exactly what happens. So for example, there's a supplement called beta alanine. You find it a lot in pre workouts. It's really quite funny, actually, because the professor who I did my master's degree under at university, he actually did all of the original research on beta alanine.
• 16:21
  And I'll never forget like there was this one kind of seminar I had with him, it was really cool. And he goes just type in on Twitter beta alanine and just watch what all these meatheads are saying. Because in a standard pre workout, you will see that there is always beta alanine. Because a side effect of beta alanine is tingles. So you get this like, it's almost like your skin's on fire.
• 16:45
  They load pre workout up with beta alanine, because it gives you the tingles. So you type in beta alanine on Twitter, and you just see all these mirrors going like beta alanine is kicking in. And they're like, but it's actually not doing anything. There's just like a standard sort of placebo effect. But what I'm coming at is that on paper, the supplementation guidelines for beta alanine is six point four grams per day.
• 17:10
  Now I honestly urge anyone to go and take six point four grams of beta alanine per day and watch your face melt. You will feel awful, like you feel atrocious. Like you go past two point four grams, which again like is huge. It's three like times the dose and you start to feel those side effects. So if I just simply just regurgitated the info that I got over to someone else, hey, my clients gonna be like, dude, what have you done?
• 17:39
  Like why have you given me this info? So I think the point I'm coming at is that it's the application. But the first application needs to be that yes, absolutely. Lots of you know, personal training courses, nutritional courses have failed the you know, the person who's going through the course in terms of not giving them the information, but then it's the application. And I just think that you have to be a walking advert for what you're selling, be a walking advert for the result your client can get, and be a walking advert for the person that they can then become.
• 18:10
  Because when you're doing that, you can then give them all of the practical strategies that they need. Because your client doesn't need to know about how the ketone beta hydroxybutyrate impacts mTOR. They just What need to do
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: they need to know about that? Explain that to us a bit.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, well basically, what my client needs to know is, Cal, I'm in a service station, I'm absolutely starving, I've been on this way of eating for the past two to three weeks. These are the options available to me. What do I need to do that fits in with the goal that we're trying to achieve? And I know for me, like you know, I've used ketogenic diets with certain clients previously. If I have a client call me up who's on a ketogenic diet and they go, Cal, we're on a ketogenic diet at the moment, I'm really hungry, what can I do?
• 18:55
  I'm in a service station. If I've never been on a ketogenic diet in a service station really hungry, how could I possibly expect myself to advise them? I can't. So I just think that that's where your confidence really starts to kind of build. So for me, a big thing I've always said to coaches is get away from sharing facts and start sharing your lessons.
• 19:15
  Because then you can't, there's no imposter syndrome there because you're not making anything
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: That is a good shout, my man. I would say on that as well is there's so many people who want to fast track the process, as in like, Just let me get qualified. Fuck the experience. I've just done this twelve week body transformation, I'm good to go. So then what happens is same scenario plays out.
• 19:38
  Client messages them and says, Oh, here, I've got this thing going on based on the information that you've given me. What do I do right now? I was like, Oh, shit. I don't know. I haven't experienced it.
• 19:49
  And, yes, okay, we try to lead in in regards to, you know, asking the right questions to clients. But sometimes you just do you have to give them a straight answer as in like, hey, here's what I've done in the past. Here's what you might wanna consider. And if you haven't done it, if you've no story to draw on, it's gonna be really fucking tricky for you.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you look at yourself. Think about how many nightmare clients have you had over your decade of coaching?
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Us. Yeah. Dozens.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: So now in terms of the the coaches, the guys that you now coach to become coaches who are coaches. Mhmm. How much can you draw from those experience with Karen, Sharon's, Dave's, you know, Ian's, all of them to then go and apply to those to your coaches? How much experience can you draw
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: from them? It's crazy, man. Someone and this still gets to me to this day, right? I had an ad running before and I can't remember exactly what was on the ad, but anyway, this guy wrote on the ad and he said something along the lines of As long as you know all of the exercises on the gym floor, you don't need to do a PT course or you don't need to do your course. And I was like Okay, cool.
• 21:02
  Well, prove it to me then. I was like, So I will give you the opportunity to come in and coach on my gym floor under the condition that you let me video it for when you shit the bed, because that's exactly what's going to happen. Right? I said, So this is an opportunity for you, by all means, if you're so confident in what it is that you're saying. And I wrote this on social media, I'm like, Here, prove me wrong.
• 21:26
  If that's the case, if this is what you believe, come in and show me. Don't just sit there and say this shit. Come in and show me that all you need to do to be a personal trainer or a coach is just know the exercises, because I promise you will get onto the gym floor with my clients who have been training with me, some of them a decade plus, and they would wipe the floor where you're at, you know what I'm saying? They would literally be like, Woah, what are you talking about here? You're way off the mark with this.
• 21:57
  And so even from a confidence standpoint, you talk about imposter syndrome, right? So it's like Donning Kruger, the more you know Sorry, the less you know, the more you think you know, the more know there is to know. And so what would happen is someone thinks Oh, I could do that, no problem, right? Until they're actually faced with the scenario where they have to do it and then they're like, Oh shit, alright, maybe there's a little bit more to this. And then that's where imposter syndrome creeps in.
• 22:30
  Because then they have to show that they can do it and then they realize, Oh, shit, there's more to this game than what I've seen. And I was like, you know what I want to say to people? If you could do it, you'd have done it already.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Right? Yeah. It's like, Oh, it's easy to be a personal trainer or it's easy to be a coach. Well, if that's the case, if you could have done it, you would have done it already. So therefore, you haven't done it, so it's not that fucking easy, is it?
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And and you know like Yeah. And do you know the thing I found as well? So I am I'm a big fan of a guy called Dan Sullivan. He's written some fantastic books like 10 x easy and two x, Who Not How.
• 23:10
  And and he he is kind of like instilled this one piece of information in my head that has been kind of a game changer for me really and also allowed me to kind of deal with failure, deal with those kind of oh shit moments so much better. Where he basically says that like, he's referring to in terms of a business, but I see in so many sort of ways in terms of like, as a coach or as a personal trainer. In that he almost kind talked about this fiftyfifty rule Let's say I'm starting a business up, my fitness business. I'm coming to market with 50% of the idea and then I allow everything else that happens, I. E.
• 23:49
  Market give me the remaining 50% of that idea. So it's almost like, you know, I look at it with my qualifications. You know, I've got a normal bachelor's degree, a master's degree in performance nutrition, I got accepted to do a PhD in performance nutrition as well. I saw that as the first 50%. And then when I don't put it into play, all of the stuff that can't be revealed to me here reveals itself and it reveals itself in those like, oh shit.
• 24:23
  But they're like hurdles that I have to overcome and they're lessons that I have to learn. And and that's the practical things that you're like, right, okay, if you're gonna take this, this is what it actually looks like in the real world. So my question for you is that let's say you've got someone who either wants to become a fitness coach and they want to be about a coach versus a personal trainer or maybe they've kind of slipped into, because I know a couple of guys who are watching this. I've seen a few guys come up and have had these sorts of conversations with them previously. Maybe slipped into almost like there must be more to this.
• 24:57
  Like there must there has to be more to this. What what are the benefits in terms of being more of a coach? Whether it's in internally in terms of your own fulfillment, whether it's from a business point of view. What are the benefits of going like right okay I'm not just going to be almost kind of like a you know off the conveyor belt personal trainer and I'm going to be almost kind of like a coach in a league of my own so to speak. Like what why would someone go and pursue that?
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Just before I go into that, I've got a PhD as well, but it's pig headed discipline. Yes. Too stupid to quit. Love that. Yeah, so while you were saying that, the first thing that was coming to my mind was that it's adult to adult.
• 25:50
  As in the relationships that you have with the people that you coach, their adult to adult relationships, whereas I find quite often because being a personal trainer, counting reps on the gym floor, it's very per child relationship orientated. It's not necessarily curating independence because the person is reliant on you standing there, counting the reps, correcting their form. And it's like, it can be very Transactional almost, isn't it? Yeah. Can be very of that nature.
• 26:28
  Right? And so I think that there's, at least for me personally, that worst thing. Know, it's like, I've bit of an aura of presence and focus with my kids and then I'm like, You're doing my hair. Go away. All jokes to say, though, but when you're talking to an adult and you're having to almost babysit an adult, I think that's the thing that can wear you down.
• 26:53
  And I think that's the thing because it's like you're answering silly questions that you've maybe answered before and you're definitely gonna question whether or not this is the way. But whenever you get into the coaching role, it very much prioritizes giving the person independence. And so then it becomes rather than a parent child relationship, it's an adult adult relationship and it's just a lot more fulfilling in that sense because then you feel like you're given some but also you're getting some back. Whereas I think sometimes being a personal trainer can be soul sucking in the sense that you're given some, but it's like there's nothing in return here because it's the same with kids. You don't expect kids to give you back, at least my kids.
• 27:34
  I live for them. I want nothing in return. And so I think that that relationship can largely be the same, albeit it's only an hour a day. But if you're doing that with six different people for six hours a day, then that's where the problems come into. Whereas in a coaching relationship, the differences are, from a practical standpoint, is that rather than coaching six different people as being their parent for six hours in a day, basically draining the life out of you for those six hours, Well, in a coaching scenario, you might be training all six people at the same time and it's just adult to adult conversations.
• 28:13
  It's like Hey, how's the nutrition going? How's the training going? Did you do this thing I told you to do outside? Awesome. What do you need to know?
• 28:20
  Any questions for me? So it's almost just like it's that type of relationship rather than the previous that I just mentioned. I think that's the biggest thing. And also, the time commitment to it. It's way less, way more fulfilling.
• 28:34
  And I just think it's a better business model as well above all else.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Know, it's interesting because as you're saying that, I literally kind of have I'm I'm almost kinda like re replaying, like, that exact feeling of you said soul sucking. It's almost that like for me I'm like, what am I doing here? Like, it's almost like I had this list of clients I'm like, I look at in terms of results and the progress that they made, I'm like what am I actually like?
• 29:08
  This is shit. This is so shit.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be that way either. It does not have to be that way. I know in my experience, some of our guys, because they're the same boat, you know? You don't know what you don't know. If you're only given which, by the way, on the ECA certification, we teach people fundamentally how to train someone on a one to one level.
• 29:32
  Right? But it's like even that is, you know, there's so much detail involved in that and sometimes I say to you guys, look, here's what like, think about all of the details involved in this. Now, there's a lot and quite frankly, it's quite tricky to get all that across. You can't unlearn something and so once you know it, then it's hard to disregard it. In a nutritionist, you can't unlearn shit when it comes to nutrition.
• 30:00
  One's going to say to you Oh, here, do know what? Steve, your client just follows a calorie deficit. Everything is good. But you can't unlearn all of the stuff that you already know, so it's impossible for you then to disregard it and not give it to your nutritional clients. And so it's the same when it comes to training.
• 30:17
  It's impossible to disregard what you already know and at least for me, not being given to our coaches. And when they get it, I'm gonna be like, Listen, it's gonna be hard to disregard all of this stuff. And so, what then happens is, sure, you can get this a one to one client, but where it would be more applicable is if you just go shotgun approach and just give it to a whole bunch of clients and educate their clients in the way that they need to be educated on this stuff. I mean, I was gonna let my boys in because they've just called to the door.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: That's right, dude. Piracies.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: You know, educate the clients on this stuff. And so, you know, they're gonna take much more away from the relationship rather than, you know, just the standard coming and going to the gym. And, yeah, I just think it's a much better process, mate.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you kind of mentioned business model there as well. That like when you I don't know, kind of when you're feeling that sort of like fulfillment and that like that that you're you're invested in your client as well. Because I know that like I got to so many, like so many situations where I just kinda checked out with this person and they probably kinda felt that.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Mhmm.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: And because I kinda checked out, they kinda checked out as well. And then naturally you're then kinda getting back onto the the treadmill of having to bring new people back in. And I think that it comes down to like, I know for myself that I remember I was procrastinating immensely at one point over trying to grow my business. Like I knew exactly everything that I needed to do, but I just couldn't almost kinda seem to do it. And I realized what the problem was within this.
• 31:58
  So I was really kinda kicking myself so much because like I don't understand like and again like I had this sort of internal dialogue for myself where it's just like, you know, is it me? Do I have what it takes? Like should I actually be running this business? But then I kind of I'm a huge Russell Brunson fan. Like I've read all of his books.
• 32:13
  I was in his coaching program. I've kind of like, yeah, I've almost kind of like been a bit of a disciple. I remember him saying that the most important thing is who do you want to work with and who do you wanna be a hero to?
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: Mhmm.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And I looked at the the problem was you kinda said that child, adult to child relationship. I looked at my clients and I almost kind of had like within these, like a list of children, but that was also my fault. Yep. Because the way in which I was coaching them, I wasn't coaching them, I was simply just saying here do this, and like here go and eat that, like that's it. I wasn't actually really kind of understanding them as an individual.
• 32:48
  So therefore, I was almost kind of operating like just a parent saying here, do this. So I realized that they were then causing me a nightmare, because they were never following what I was telling them to do. Then I kind of felt like I was relentlessly banging my head against the wall, just like not getting anywhere with these people. And I kind of realized that if I got more clients in, that meant more pain. And us as human beings don't do things for pain.
• 33:15
  So naturally, I would then procrastinate overgrowing my business because I was gonna have more and more of those types of people, but I didn't tackle the root cause, which was like, hey, actually you need to kind of change up the kind of coach that you are to these different types of people. So, and that's where I kind of find that, you know, if we kind of look at the nutritional side of things, it's about so much more than just giving someone a macro target. Because again, you look at all of this, it's about relationships that when do most people eat like they eat around other people, Like they eat with their friends and you have to be able to tackle that when you're educating someone because see so many coaches get pissed off with like their clients. Like you know, they're going out and they're just eating this and they're drinking that. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I I get it.
• 34:00
  It frustrates the hell out of me. But remember, like if you you have a client who's relentlessly in that situation, they're not following what you're doing when they're away. So let's say they're out with their friends and social occasions is a big thing and they're constantly having burger and chips as opposed to having a nice salad, yeah. The problem is that if I just keep saying like right, you know, we need to be in a calorie deficit, we need to go for the low carb option, go for the low calorie option. I'm just tackling the surface level of the problem.
• 34:32
  Whereas if I actually ask them, like, can I ask you a question? Like, why do you struggle? Because obviously you struggle because this is the sticking point. Why is it that you're actually struggling here? And if they then come back to me and say, well, I'm gonna be honest, like, know, all of my friends know that I've been on a diet for the past twenty five years.
• 34:52
  I'm constantly trying something. And, you know, I don't wanna be that person who is almost kind of like the fun vacuum. I'm sucking the fun out of the room by going, oh, they're all having burgers, they're all having drinks, and I'm just gonna go and have a salad. Like, that's gonna make me feel really kind of uncomfortable. And then I've got my friends going, oh, I'll do this, this, this, this, and this.
• 35:12
  How is me then saying, just be in a calorie deficit and have the low calorie option gonna help them? Like it's not because that's not the problem. The problem is actually that they need to address the relationship with their friends and have a conversation and say, hey guys, just so you know, like I really wanna make this work now. You all know that I've been trying for quite a long time to to make this happen and I really wanna make this work and you're not putting any pressure on me whatsoever, but I just need to kinda know that if we go out and for the next kind of six to eight weeks, I mean, I'm not gonna have a drink, then you're cool with that and that I don't wanna bring the party down and that I'm still having a good time and this is my thoughts. Is everyone okay with that?
• 35:50
  And I guarantee if they're their mates, they'll say yeah. And then you've tackled the real root cause of the of the problem. And that's and that's what the difference is for me in terms of someone who knows a load of nutrition facts versus someone who can actually go like, okay, right, you know what to do, but you can't seem to do what needs to be done. So let's tackle this part. And then and you know, the other thing is really sometimes the actual vehicle that they're being given is the thing that's stopping them from getting the results.
• 36:18
  And this is why you've got to expand your knowledge. Because I know for me, I had two clients. One was an absolute nightmare, and the other was a dream. Like one literally, I would just give him his nutritional plan and he would just nail it. Okay?
• 36:32
  The other, it was just like, I'm sure you can kind of think of the kind of person. He was literally like trying to squeeze blood out the stone. Prune in teeth. Literally. I would have better, I would have better success pulling my eyelashes out.
• 36:44
  And, and I remember going like, well I need to ask you a question here and I need to figure out why they're not adhering. And I went to my main client, name is Ewan, he was brilliant. Like he lost six stone in six months, type two diabetes went away. And I said, Ewan, you'd be so easy. Like why why is it that you just do everything that I tell you to do?
• 37:05
  He goes, well because whenever I do it, I get a result. So whatever you've told me to do has worked, so I'm just gonna keep doing it. So then I then go back to the other client who had been a nightmare and I asked her, I was like, I'm gonna be honest, like, why aren't you following it? She goes, well, to be honest, like I was following it to start with, but it wasn't really kind of working. And every time you gave me a new solution, it didn't really work.
• 37:29
  Either it didn't work in terms of the result or it didn't fit with my lifestyle. So there only kind of comes a point where it's like if you're running a business, and if you have a business coach, and you keep following everything that they're telling them to do, and then you're losing money, eventually you're gonna get to a point where you go, I'm gonna stop listening to this person. So I think it's a combination of making sure that you have a variety of options, and a variety of different solutions for different people that fit in with different lifestyles. And then you understand how to actually communicate that with people in a way that allows them to take action. And that's where again, that's in my opinion, what separates rep counter from a coach, from nutritional point of view.
• 38:06
  A rep counter is I've got 20 clients and I'm just gonna go on Google, get my free macro calculator out there, put my weight in, put their height in, put this like their energy expenditure in, or blah blah blah. Get that. Okay, right. Here's your macros and that's personalized. The personalized side of things.
• 38:26
  And I'll stick their name on as well because it's personalized. That's a rep counter. Whereas from nutritional point of view, you've got to understand about the person. Like you look at personalization, like you have to put the person into it, whether it's personalization in terms of their lifestyle, because they can have five kids. Like they can have loads of kids running a job, and that that simple macro split isn't going to work for them.
• 38:49
  But then also I think the other thing is personalization in terms of their personality as well. So I've been quite vocal for quite some time around just giving people macros and a calorie target in terms of like MyFitnessPal. And that's just all they need to do from nutritional point of view. Now for me, that your nutritional strategy has to be tied in with the personality of the person you're working with. So if I have an accountant, and let's say they're very, very data driven, okay?
• 39:15
  MyFitnessPal is absolutely perfect for me. It will get their nipples so hard if I go and say like, hey, go and plug all this data. When you come to someone like me with ADHD and the attention span of a gnat, the longest I've been able to track till is lunchtime. Like I can't do it. Like I'm spinning seven different plates at a time, trying to run a business, trying to be your friend, trying to do this, this, this.
• 39:35
  And then you're trying to ask me to take a photo of every single piece of food that I'm having, weigh it out, count it, I can't count, and and get that all together and then hit within a number. Does it fit in with my personality? Does it fit in my lifestyle? So I guess really then it kinda comes down to what is the caliber of coach you wanna be? Like, do you wanna be a rep counter?
• 39:53
  And and that's the same from nutritional point of view. Or do you wanna be someone who fully understands the person stood in front of them? Where they wanna go? Why they wanna get there? And then facilitate them.
• 40:03
  And facilitate them and allow you to that independence. Like a coach should be a facilitator in terms of and I remember having this conversation with Phil Brady and he said coaching is just about creating a space for someone to really kind of come to the idea themselves and then go and take action on it. Like the the the more you're talking and telling, that's not coaching. That's not coaching. That's telling.
• 40:25
  And it's the same as selling. Like selling, the best salespeople are the best listeners. And that the person then sells themselves onto it off the back of it. And again, I think that that's what is the difference between people who go through a certification that turns them into a personal trainer, that is a rep counter, versus someone who can have substance. Because I know for me, something had to change.
• 40:47
  So if someone's kind of watching this now, and they do have thoughts about a career in the fitness industry, the first question needs to be how long do you actually wanna be in there? Like how long do you wanna be doing this for? Because I promise you there is only so much time that you can tolerate almost like just telling people do this, this and this, because it loses its spark and it loses its excitement. And you have to you have to be all in with it with your soul. And there comes a point where it's like, right, okay, you know, if I just solely go down the route of qualifying as a personal trainer, I'm just gonna count reps.
• 41:22
  Do you honestly just want to be in a gym counting reps for the next twenty, twenty five years? Is that what you want to do? If you do fantastic, go and do that and just go on a standard course and you'll be able to do it. But I think that you know, I've been running a business specifically for eight years, and it's an emotional journey. I agree.
• 41:40
  And and you have to be you have to really really be in love with I think it's progress for me. That there is progress and that there's momentum and you're moving forward towards something. There's only so many reps you can count and there's no I can't get you can't get better at counting reps. No. Like maybe you have like AI count the reps for you.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or they can count on themselves.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: They can count on themselves. But I just think that the thing for me that keeps this journey exciting, which then increases my desire to grow it as a business and make it better, is that there is a never ending progression within it. There's a never ending progression in terms of my skill set, the people that I can meet, the way in which I can share that information and that education. And that's what makes it exciting and I think that that's what makes a successful fitness business off the back of it, which isn't that what you really want?
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Exactly, my man. Exactly. Couldn't have put it any better, brother. Have put it better. Someone starting off, what does all of this mean?
• 42:46
  Quite simply, you know, you hit the nail on the head. You have to ask yourself, like, what type of coach do you wanna be? What type of impact do you wanna have on the fitness industry? Me personally, I don't do things by halves. I think you you know me well enough by now.
• 43:03
  I do not do things by halves. The standard that I have for myself is if you're going to do something, do it right. Here's what I will say, and this is a little reframe for some of the people watching this, be it if you're just starting off or whatever it is, but imagine you own a gym or imagine, no matter what, you're hiring a coach. So it could be from a gym owner perspective or it could just be I want to hire a coach to look after every aspect of my life. Right?
• 43:43
  And so then if you put yourself in the shoes of that person, Jim Warner, and they're faced with two options. Option number one, they've got someone who is willing to invest heavily in themselves, who's invested in the process, who's in it for the long haul, who just wants to go to town, wants to learn, wants to get all of the experience. Or would they hire the person who's half arcing it, not really invested in themselves, trying to fast track things, not open minded, not willing to learn, not enthusiastic? Well, it's a no brainer. The gym owner is going to hire the coach who is balls to the wall.
• 44:28
  And it's the same for someone who's hiring a coach as well. They're processing it in the same way. And so one of the things that I always said was gold medals are never won by the person who'd done the least, they put that into your career, by doing the least, do you win the medal? Do champions do the least? It's like, no, they're the ones who've done preparation, the the most investment, the most time, energy, money, attention everything went into it.
• 45:00
  And so it's like, why would you try to fast track your way to a successful career in fitness? Why would you not invest more into yourself? Why would you not invest in coaches? Why would you not invest in people to give you feedback? People that are still doing it in the industry like you and I, from a nutritional standpoint, from a fitness standpoint, from a business standpoint.
• 45:19
  Why would you not seek people out that have done what you want to do? Okay. It might be longer. The process might take longer. Sometimes it might be more emotionally, shall we say, apart the fact that you're not always going to get what you want to hear.
• 45:41
  Right? They're not going to fucking blow smoke up your ass because I certainly would not do that with our students, but it's for their development, So yes, while it takes a lot more work to get there, it's just worth it because it builds a foundation upon something that is rock solid instead of something that will just it's just shaky and it's just on you like, get what I'm saying here, bro. It's like Yeah. I've got this thing you know what I mean?
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: I've got a story here which summarizes what you said there and it's something that I frequently remind myself of. So I'm I don't know whether you I've got it from Alex Formosie. So I'm gonna read it kind of here. I'm sure you might have heard it before, but two men set out to build a building. One lays the foundation for a 10 storey building and finishes the entire building in nine months.
• 46:33
  The other lays the foundation for a 100 storey building and it takes him the entire nine months just to build the first few floors. The first, being ahead, mocks the second guy for taking so long. He now decides he wants to build his building into a 100 storey building to prove how good of a builder he is. So he tries to add stories on top. He gets to fifteen, sixteen stories and then the foundation begins to crack.
• 47:00
  He starts reinforcing things, but no matter what, he feels he can't put any more on top. Over time, the second guy who took longer building his building now passes the first man. Two years later, the second man completes his 100 storey building, despite barely having his foundation finished by the time the first man had finished his first entire building. The first man then goes to a mentor to ask his advice on growing his building taller. The mentor tells him, you need to tear the building down or start another one anew.
• 47:33
  And he says, and waste all the time I spent building this one. Can't I just add it on top if I just knew how? The mentor replies with, there's a lesson here. The fastest way to build a 10 storey building isn't the fastest way to build a 100 storey building. Your desire to grow fast ruins your ability to grow big.
• 47:51
  And I just think that that the one thing that you said to me before was rite of passage. That like, I think for me that that getting to learn from the best people out there, That was amazing for me. I was like, I get to learn from these guys. You look at like, you know, Michael Jordan for example. It became amazing because he was coached by the best.
• 48:14
  Like he had the best coaches there. So you look at the, you know, you really want to be the best, you have to be coached by the best. And that takes longer and it's probably a bigger investment, whether it's financially or whether it's with your emotion, your energy. But again, what kind of coach do you wanna be? You know, and I think that, you know, I kind of think about, yeah, that in general, that is a question that has to consistently run through your mind.
• 48:43
  And I think the one thing for me is that this fitness industry may be scary potentially getting into because it's saturated. There's more coaches than ever, but it's not competitive because it's full of rep counters. Whereas if you can really kind of go like right, I'm gonna learn from the people who've been able to stand out, been able to carve out their own unique place in the industry but really off the back of delivering results in their own reputation, then I can do that too. And I think that that's the secret to be honest. Yeah,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one thing that I would urge and again, I don't think peer what your peers see you do is because again, there's this thing where people might behave in a way that is more appealing to their peers than appealing to their clients, right? So we've seen this before. But I think that's also helpful in a sense that if you do things in terms of your preparation that your peers cannot question. Right? So here's the thing, right?
• 49:56
  And I, people look to people in Birmingham, people in Belfast, they might look to you and I as being peers in the fitness industry. Right? And, you know, them, those guys trying to impress us is not going to serve them when it comes to marketing or anything like that, right? But what I would say is those guys trying to impress us in the sense of how they're educating themselves will serve them, right? Because then I can't question your journey.
• 50:27
  Whereas if someone comes to me and I'm like, Well, what was your journey into the industry? What did you do? And they're like, Well, I've done this twelve week transformation and then I've done this online course that took two weeks. I'm like, questionable. My face is gonna say, What was that about?
• 50:45
  So your peer is then questioning your journey, whereas if you operate in a way, let's say you are trying to impress your peers with your journey. Like that's only gonna serve you.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: Right? Now what like if it's for that reason like if you're trying to impress your peers with your marketing it's like stupid because we don't care. Right?
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: But in terms of the actions that you're taking that lead to that because you could impress us with the marketing but if you haven't done the thing that backs up what you're saying, well then now it's like what was the point?
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: It's the results you've produced.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I remember Matthew McConaughey actually when he won an Oscar. I remember his book is brilliant.
• 51:26
  It's called Green Lives. Green Lives. It's fantastic. Oh, love it. Just the way he writes it and yeah, so silky smoothie.
• 51:32
  But he said that his Oscar meant so much to him because his peers, that it was voted for by his peers and they had acknowledged him for such a high quality piece of work and they understood what must have gone into him being able to deliver that specific performance. And I think that that's the that's how you not say climb the ladder, but that's how you yeah, think that's how you grow and evolve within this and get the respect of your peers by someone going, if you've done that, I know what that takes. Which means I know what you're made of. Yeah. You're that kind of person, you've got that substance and you're gonna go and do that and I want to have a relationship with you.
• 52:20
  Yeah. And it says so much about them as a person. So again, like in terms of you know, that if I'm going into the industry earlier, if I'm in industry now, I think that again it comes down to like what are the results I want to actually produce? Like do I just wanna have like a big Instagram following? Like if that's what you wanna do, great.
• 52:41
  But your skill set really is gonna be the skill set of a content creator, as opposed to as an actual coach. Yeah. Whereas if you the results that you want to really produce for me, the thing I just want a budding community of like minded individuals who have their place, they have their people, and they're all on this meaningful pursuit becoming better and better and better, learning about the thing that they absolutely love and honing their craft and getting better and better and better at that. That is the result that I am obsessed with being able to deliver. So I think that again, as a coach, you have to ask that question, what is what's this about?
• 53:18
  Yeah. Like what what is the result I wanna deliver here? Because you know, if it is just solely the Instagram side of things, that's great, but focus your energy on becoming fantastic at social media, marketing, copywriting, that's what you really kinda need to go down. Whereas the other route is, yeah, and that comes down to what vehicles you're gonna use. Whether, you know, because to do that as a fitness influencer, just do a really quick online course.
• 53:42
  So you can say that I'm a qualified PT and then I can set up an online coaching program. But if if you wanna kinda like, you know, I remember you said to me, I've got clients who've been working with me for years still, but you have to know what you're on about from a coaching point of view to be able to have that type of relationship with someone.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: And yeah, you can be coached by either way, but that comes down to where you wanna go.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: Love it. Love man, man.