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Inside the System That Makes a Seafood Label Trustworthy · How To Protect The Ocean

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  Somewhere between a fishing vessel out on the water and a can of tuna
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  on your grocery cart, a whole hidden system decides whether you
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  should trust what's on the label.
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  It runs on audits vessel registries and a compliance reports, like a bunch
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  of compliance reports almost nobody outside the industry ever reads.
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  And it's actually the reason that the blue check mark means anything at all.
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  So all the stuff that goes through that, we're gonna be talking about on today's
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  episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast, because it's something that's
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  important for you to know, is all the stuff that goes in is why you should
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  trust that blue check mark or that seafood label that's really, really important.
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  And that's what we cover here on the podcast, not only this episode, but
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  we cover in all the others, is to give you the breakdown so that you
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  don't have that climate and ocean anxiety that a lot of us have.
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  I'm trying to give you the information that's happening around and why you should
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  trust certain things and give you the story behind it, because then you can
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  tell not only yourselves and kind of be good, but you can talk to other people
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  about it, your family, your friends, your colleagues, so that they can feel
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  the same way, where they don't have this apathy towards the ocean because
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  there's really nothing we can do to help.
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  Like, we can do lots, and there are lots being done.
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  And then on the other hand, though, it's not being communicated to you.
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  So this podcast is what we do to communicate that information to you.
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  There's a lot of other people doing it.
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  I try and do this on this podcast each and every day.
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  So, today we're gonna be talking about seafood labeling
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  and everything that goes in.
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  Now, we're gonna start talking about first is the RFMO.
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  And you're like, "Andrew, this is an acronym that I don't even know right
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  away. Like, tell me in plain language." So a Regional Fisheries Management
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  Organization, it's a treaty-based body where countries with a stake
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  in a fishery legally bind themselves to cooperate on how it's managed.
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  So the RFMO may manage a number of different fisheries, and certain
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  countries may be a part of it, and certain countries may not be
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  a part of it, depending on the fishery, like within the RFMO.
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  And so these RFMOs are not just within a specific border.
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  These are beyond those borders, but they have certain jurisdictions.
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  So certain countries will be managing along with other
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  countries that have this RFMO.
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  Because let's be honest, just like we said on Monday's episode, a lot of species
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  don't adhere to borders, like geographical borders or political borders.
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  They will adhere to the borders that are set by the ocean and where they can go.
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  A sea turtle can go a long way.
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  Tuna can go a long way.
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  And so we need to make sure that those are managed properly and effectively
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  so that if we're catching those fish, maybe not sea turtles, but it's
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  fish like tuna, we need to make sure that we are managing them properly.
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  So just think of these RFMOs as these management organizations it's a body
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  that manages a number of different fisheries, but it's certain countries
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  that are part of it and certain organizations that are a part of it.
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  So now they all meet in these windowless UN rooms that we've been
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  talking about in New York or FAO in Rome, and oftentimes they're like
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  very boring ballrooms around the world.
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  So a lot of the major conservation landmark deals and regulations and
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  treaties have been done in these boring, boring rooms in hotels and by people
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  who are not on the water, and have to be in these hotel rooms talking about
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  this and negotiating this kind of stuff.
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  But nearly the entire ocean is covered by these RFMO bodies.
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  There are 45-plus member countries that are part of some of these RFMOs.
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  And so the skill that matters most, like the fact that there's legal
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  expertise in the room, or there's certain scientific expertise, it's the fact
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  that there's like everybody's listening.
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  Hearing what a country means behind what it's saying.
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  So where you stand depends on where you sit.
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  So making sure that you can tell what a country wants by not only
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  what it's telling you, but how it acts before coming into the room.
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  And so, like the governance, it's not just paperwork.
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  The person we're talking to tomorrow has a background in anthropology,
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  compares governance to what civilization itself is built on.
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  The agreed rules and somewhere to go when something goes wrong.
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  It's a document that you can go to be like, "Okay, so if this happens, we
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  can take this type of measures," or, "You're not allowed to do this, and if
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  that is done, then we have measures to enforce that." The whole payoff of this
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  whole thing is governance decisions actually reach, like a dinner table,
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  like they get to where you are involved.
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  In the International Seafood Sustainability Foundation's transparency
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  and accountability model as an example, is participating seafood companies are
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  audited annually, compliance reports are public, and vessels, the actual
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  vessels are scored on public lists.
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  And, like, so having these audits are huge.
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  And then the market power of this whole thing is those eco labels, like the Marine
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  Stewardship Council, MSC certification.
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  It's not symbolic.
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  They carry real financial weight, which is why, like,
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  losing one forces a real change.
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  So the Marine Stewardship Council suspended the main lobster fisheries'
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  certification twice, first in August 2020, then in December 15, 2022.
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  They were both tied to concerns over North Atlantic right whale
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  protection under the Marine Mammal Protection Act and Endangered
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  Species Act in the United States.
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  So notably, the MSC's own auditors found limited evidence the fishery
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  itself was responsible for the entanglements, meaning the suspension
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  was as much about legal compliance status as about on-the-water risk.
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  So it's a matter of, like, are you actually figuring out what's going on?
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  Are you trying to make the efforts to stop this?
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  Now, a lot of these policies, like this policy, this example in particular for
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  the North Atlantic right whales, where MSC pulled I guess their preference for
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  it or their support for it was tied to, like the mechanism of where now a lot
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  of lobster pots and crab pots are now ropeless or moving towards ropeless,
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  and there's a lot of experimental fisheries that are going on to there.
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  And so not only with the fishers, but it also goes with
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  the consumer and the retailers.
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  So retailers like Costco and Walmart won't put something on the shelf that doesn't
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  meet their own sustainability commitments.
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  So transparency at the vessel level flows all the way up the supply chain.
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  So like as consumers, we are demanding that the fish and seafood that is
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  in front of us is sustainable, and that there is somebody looking
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  out for that, because we can't.
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  All we see is what's in the package in front of us.
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  Sometimes we don't even know what fish it is because the
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  package is just showing a filet.
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  And for those of us who don't really know what a fish looks like, it's
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  very difficult to tell whether this is the right fish, whether it was
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  caught sustainably, how it was caught.
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  We don't even know if it's right or not.
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  There's apps to tell us, but we have no idea, and the person behind the counter
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  a lot of times doesn't have an idea.
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  But you get that blue check mark from MSC, and you can say, "Well, they know how,
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  and I can go on their website and look it up, so I know exactly what's happening."
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  So I think the important thing is, is like the people who say
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  that they're selling, that are responsible for looking after tuna.
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  So an organization called the International Seafood Sustainability
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  Foundation, which we had the president of ISSF on a number of months ago,
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  Susan Jackson, who talked about how there was 97% of the tuna that was
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  fished last year was sustainable.
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  97%. And the only reason why they couldn't do the others was because there
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  was one fishery by the time they made the report, hadn't been tallied yet.
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  But, they're responsible for looking after everything.
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  They're not the ones that are actually do the certifying.
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  They're not the ones that do the certifying.
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  The certification is a MSC, the Marine Stewardship Council function.
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  They're like the third body auditors.
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  So the ISSF works with the tuna supply chain from vessel all the way
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  through, like the processors, the fishmongers, and even into the retailers.
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  And they make sure that everything will meet the MSC certification standard.
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  So they're like the behind the scenes, all this.
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  You don't even know about them if you're eating tuna because
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  they're not there to certify.
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  They're not there to say that everything's certified.
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  They are there to make sure that the supply chain for
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  tuna fishing is done right.
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  It has a clear science-based roadmap and timetable to get there.
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  And so that's what's really important when we look at this.
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  So you have organizations that are there to meet those audits.
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  And even within ISSF.
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  There's like independent third-party audits.
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  They're not ISSF grading its own homework, like its own things.
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  The assessments are conducted by an outside auditor.
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  So MRAG Americas is one of the auditors that they do.
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  And then there's the Proactive Vessel Register, one of four
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  public vessel lists ISSF maintains.
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  That publishes vessel-by-vessel compliance with specific conservation
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  measures using a plain color code, green check for implemented, red
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  check mark for not implemented, and a circle for pending verification.
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  And seafood buyers are named as a primary user group.
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  So this is all done behind the scenes.
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  In an annual compliance report as of November 2024 update, participating
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  companies scored a 99.1% compliance across 33 conservation measures covering
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  things like product traceability, catch data submitted to RFMOs, and
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  shark finning and bycatch policies.
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  That's 23 companies total, 17 of which met all 33 measures fully.
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  Now, this is all new, so the companies are starting to get on board.
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  But 17 out of 33 already met it fully, and then some of them were
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  just like a little bit off, like they just didn't meet all of those
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  requirements, but they met many of them.
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  So it's not perfect, but it's getting better.
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  As these vessels are going through, it's getting better.
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  And I think that's an important part of this whole system.
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  You have MSC that does a certification that gives the consumers and the
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  retailers the confidence to say, "This is sustainable." The MSC goes back
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  and looks at the different fisheries and they say, "We have to go through
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  the entire supply chain to make sure that this fishery could be certified."
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  So who's gonna give that to us?
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  There are organizations like ISSF that work with the fishers, that work with
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  everything within that supply chain, so fishmongers, the processors, and
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  all the way through, so that when they present the materials to the MSC they
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  can say, "Yes, it's great." Now, I'm gonna say there are some MSC-certified
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  fisheries that some people do not agree that should be certified, and
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  so there are conflicts within that.
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  It's not perfect, but a lot of them are good.
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  And so having this type of system allows us as consumers to be like, "I have more
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  confidence in buying this fish with that blue check mark than anything else." So
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  I think it's important that even though there's some stuff that is all done
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  behind the scenes, like what ISSF does,
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  the ongoing, like unglamorous, like granular work, auditing companies,
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  tracking individual vessels, publishing compliance numbers nobody
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  outside the industry is gonna read.
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  And then MSC turns that underlying evidence, plus its own independent
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  fishery-level science assessment into a single blue label a shopper
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  actually sees in the seafood aisle.
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  Neither of those pieces work well together.
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  Like the compliance data buried in a PDF doesn't reassure anyone
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  standing in a grocery store.
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  You're not gonna read that as you're standing in line buying the food.
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  And a label without credible verification behind it is just marketing.
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  It's just greenwash, blue washing.
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  But the both together, that trust and those systems together really make it
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  important, and I think that's really good.
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  So having the RFMO, the Regional Fisheries Management Organizations,
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  helps a lot of countries look after a single fishery or a number of different
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  fisheries within those organizations, and there could be up to 45 plus.
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  It's the mechanism that turns, "We should manage this fishery responsibly," into
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  an enforceable multi-country agreement.
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  And then you have the eco-labels that function as economic leverage,
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  so losing one can force a fishery to change practices even when the
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  science on actual risk is ambiguous.
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  Like just like the Maine lobster fishery.
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  And then you have the ISSF and the MSC that do two different
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  jobs that only work together.
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  It works well.
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  ISSF generates the audited ongoing evidence, and the MSC turns the
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  evidence into a single label a shopper can actually recognize and trust.
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  Neither one replaces the other.
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  They work combined.
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  It kind of goes towards like, hey, consumers, a lot of times we don't
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  trust what Seafood comes down to.
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  We don't trust the sustainability claim on its own.
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  This is why I'm telling you this story, is to kind of give you the background
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  of how the tuna fishing industry works and how the labels make sense.
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  The idea is like, you need, as a consumer, to feel confident.
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  Now, whether this episode helps you feel confident, that's on you, I'm not
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  here to convince you that you should feel confident for that blue check mark.
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  Like I said before, not all MSC-certified fisheries are agreed upon, and not all
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  RFMO fisheries are in perfect shape.
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  There's still some problems out there, many problems.
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  Even the tuna industry has some increase in compliance to do, as I
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  mentioned, just with the boats and the 76% compliance of all the different
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  measures, the conservation measures.
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  The point is, and this is like been the theme this whole week, is
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  that it's a step-by-step approach.
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  They're getting better.
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  Processes are being put into place to ensure that things are getting better.
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  Observer coverage, FAD management, all these different things.
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  FAD is a fish aggregating device, by the way.
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  So all these things happen.
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  They don't happen overnight, but they happen in time, and they're
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  happening pretty rapidly compared to what it was like two decades ago.
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  And so again, it's a step-by-step approach.
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  The sooner we start, the faster we get there, and we get there with a process.
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  So I kinda want to just go through all these different things this week
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  before we head into our interview tomorrow with an ISSF representative,
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  who is absolutely phenomenal.
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  You are going to love her, if any of you have seen me drop some of the hints.
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  She may not be very well known as in like a Sylvia Earle or a Jacques
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  Cousteau or Fabian Cousteau or anything like that, but she is very well known
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  within the public policy circles.
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  She's been around for a while working on some major negotiations
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  on some, landmark treaties and things like that and policies.
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  It's been an honor for me to be able to interview her, so I wanna give you that
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  same respect for tomorrow to be able to say, "Hey, you know what? I'm gonna
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  listen to this, 'cause this is gonna be amazing." She's a wonderful speaker.
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  You're gonna love her.
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  So check that out, tomorrow's episode.
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  If you don't wanna miss it, just hit that follow button
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  and you'll get a notification when that comes live tomorrow.
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  But I wanna thank you for joining me on today's episode of the How to
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  Protect the Ocean podcast, because this has been an important process.
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  And to be able to tell you what's been happening and giving you the stories
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  behind each of these policies, not to say, "Hey, there's a policy here," but
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  really giving you an understanding of how these policies work and how
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  difficult it is to manage, this has been an absolute honor for me to do.
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  And I'd love to hear your thought on this type of style.
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  Hit me up in the socials, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook.
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  All the links are in the show notes.
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  Or if you're on Spotify, you can comment, which is a great feature.
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  I wish other podcast apps could do that as well.
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  I'd love to hear your thoughts on this new, or you can hit me up on
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  LinkedIn as well under Andrew Lewin.
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  But other than that, I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode
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  of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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  Enjoy the interview tomorrow with an ISSF representative.
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  And until then, my name is Andrew Lewin, host of the How
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  to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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  Have a great day.
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  We'll talk to you next time.
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  And happy conservation.