Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / She sold 12,000 bottles in less than 3 months.. Here’s how Kasama Rum’s Alexandra Dorda did it and the key lessons to launching a spirits brand

Transcript

She sold 12,000 bottles in less than 3 months.. Here’s how Kasama Rum’s Alexandra Dorda did it and the key lessons to launching a spirits brand · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Alexandra Daughter for Female Startup Club. Hey everyone, it's Dune here, your host and hype girl. Today I'm chatting with Alexandra, the founder of Kusama Rum.
• 0:20
  As the daughter of the Belvedere and Chopin vodka co-founder, Alexandra brings the same level of quality and experience her family company was built on to her first solo venture. Kassama is distilled in the Philippines, bottled at her family's distillery in Poland, and enjoyed around the world.
• 0:39
  Leaving behind the typical tropes associated with old school rum brands like Sailors and Pirates, and absent of heavily spiced flavor profiles, Kusama brings a refreshing approach in both branding and palate to a category in need of a breath of fresh air.
• 0:56
  If you're in the alcohol industry or you're wanting to launch a spirits brand, this episode was a real eye-opener for me. We chat through how she sold out of her first batch of 12,000 bottles in less than three months, why she's not optimizing for profits, and what she learned from the family biz that she's been putting into action with Kusama.
• 1:17
  And oh my God, July 12, have you marked this date in your diary? July 12, July 12, July 12. I want to just say it so many times. I'm so excited. It is the launch date for our private network. And if you're a woman building a CPG brand slash e-com company, this is built with you in mind.
• 1:38
  You can pop your name on our waitlist, which is growing every day. And it makes me so happy to see it. Thank you so much to everyone who has already signed up. Go to femalestartupclub.com forward slash waitlist. And we're going to let you know the second it goes live, we have 50 spots available. So we're just starting small. And trust me, you're going to want to be part of this from the get go.
• 2:01
  If you want some more info, go to my Instagram at DoonRosheen, D-O-O-N-E-R-O-I-S-I-N for the full rundown. And I'm so excited. Let's jump into this episode. This is Alexandra for Female Startup Club. Alexandra, hi. Welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I've been a fan of your show for a while, so I'm so thrilled to be here myself. Oh, my God. That's so cool. Thanks. I love that.
• 2:31
  For those who don't know who you are, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what your business is? Sure. So my name is Alexandra. I'm the founder of Kasama Rum, which is a rum from the Philippines. We just soft launched in September of 2020, and our official launch was in February of this year. So we're very, very new, but I feel like this is a business that's really been in the making for my whole life.
• 2:54
  So I just turned 30, but I sort of like to joke that I have 28 years of experience in the alcohol sector. I was just two years old when my dad started his businesses. So he co-founded two of the leading premium vodka brands. So Chopin Vodka and Belvedere Vodka.
• 3:11
  And I really grew up shadowing him in his work. And when I mean I was young, I was like really young. I remember being five years old or, you know, very young. And he would take me to restaurants with him and say, come on, we have to go meet the bartender. We have to check the back bar. We have to shake his hand, like see what's on the menu.
• 3:30
  And so that's really how I got into this space. And I just sort of got more and more involved as I got older. And so Kassam was really a labor of love and sort of the culmination of all of my experience in the alcohol space.
• 3:44
  Hmm. That's so cool. And I love how you were able to leverage what you knew and the people around you to come to the table with something that you're actually really uniquely positioned to tackle in the industry, but put your spin on it. And I think that's a really important question that people should ask themselves is like, what am I uniquely positioned to tackle? What do I know that other people don't know? And like, what have I got at my fingertips? So
• 4:10
  Why rum? Why not vodka? That's a great question. So I think, first of all, I love rum always, and I love tropical cocktails, and I love sort of sour cocktails and things like that. But I never felt like there was a rum out there that was really speaking to me. So if you think about the rum category...
• 4:30
  I think it's very stuck in what I like to call the nautical rut. So there are lots of rums that have pirates on them or cartoon sailors on them or ships or, I don't know, old dead men. I think it's a category that should be really, really fun, but it's just really stuck in the past. And I always thought, like, where's the rum for me? Like, where's the rum that speaks to me as a millennial woman? And it didn't exist.
• 4:55
  And I actually set, when I first had the idea for a, because I set a Google, like a Google alert on my phone, a daily Google alert for rum. And I woke up every morning being like, someone's made this rum. It's so obvious. Like someone's got to do it and just nobody did it. But so I sort of saw this gap in the market, but like I said, we are vodka distillers. We own actually a distillery here in Poland where we distill all of our vodkas, but we don't have sugar cane in Poland.
• 5:20
  So while I saw this gap, I didn't think it was really my, I didn't know how to solve it. I just didn't think it was my problem. A couple of years ago, I actually learned that the Philippines is one of the largest rum producers in the world. And my mother is from the Philippines. And when I learned that I had, I literally had an aha moment, like a light bulb moment. And I thought, wow, I can create the rum that I wish existed. And I know that there's a need for it.
• 5:45
  and also make the branding all about this, you know, my Filipino culture and this country that I'm so passionate about and that has so much to bring the world. And so it was sort of like the perfect storm of seeing a gap in the market and realizing I had a story that I wanted to tell that really worked in that space. And so the rum is really about...
• 6:04
  First of all, modernizing the category, being young and relevant, being more than just a product, but really about the lifestyle of the tropical islands in the Philippines and the beach life. And we really just try to bring rum to a new consumer that maybe hasn't thought about rum in a really long time.
• 6:24
  And what's the industry like now? Like, are there many female founders in the rum space and have there been more brands coming out since you started this project a couple of years ago?
• 6:36
  I don't know that there are many female founders in the rum space or in alcohol in general. There are some, not a lot. I would say that there are more sort of female blenders and things like that or marketeers or brand managers. In terms of female founders, there aren't that many. But I would say that there are a couple of other rums that I can think of. I won't name them, but a couple of other rums that I can think of that are trying to modernize the category. But I would
• 7:01
  say that I think they're doing it in a way that's slightly different from the way that we are trying to do it. So Casamo, like I said, it's a celebration of the Philippines. You know, it's, I think, the most beautiful country in the world. We have over 7,000 islands that literally are like heaven on earth. And so it's a celebration of...
• 7:18
  of that lifestyle, but also sort of plays on this wonderlust that I think our generation really feels and the visuals that we find really compelling. And no, like so far, I literally don't know how, but nobody else is doing this in the rum space yet.
• 7:35
  Yeah, that's amazing. And I think like, again, that's one of those things where look to kind of male dominated products, but not even like being built by male founders, just like more masculine products. Like what you were saying, it was more nautical, it was more piratey and, you know, whatever, sailors and stuff. And then being like, where's the femme version of this? Where's the version for the millennial woman? It's a really cool way to approach like different industries. If you're thinking about what ideas you could go
• 8:06
  For a really like, you know, novice in terms of I've never created a spirits brand. I don't know anything about that side of the industry. How does one create a spirits brand? Like, are you shipping sugar cane from the Philippines to Poland? Are you like, how does it work? What are the steps to getting started?
• 8:25
  Sure. So in our specific case, we're actually sourcing the rum from a distillery in the Philippines. And we actually bring it to my family's distillery in Poland, where it's blended, bottled and packaged. And then we ship it off to primarily the United States right now. But we're also targeting many other international markets. So that's how we do it. But how do you go about creating a spirits brand? I mean, I think first and foremost, it's about having a really strong concept for,
• 8:50
  Different people do different ways. Some people actually go out and build a distillery or create the alcohol themselves. But there are also lots of third parties or white label distilleries or wineries, if you want to make a wine, that can actually create it for you and you can source what it is that you're looking for. So first and foremost, you start with the liquid and then you sort of work backwards from there on the branding, the packaging, and then all the regulatory aspects that come along with that.
• 9:21
  What are the kind of regulatory aspects that come along with it?
• 9:26
  I'm sure there's going to be a lot. Yes. So a lot of people come to me and tell me that they want to start a spirits brand. And I always tell them to just take a minute to really think about it because it is not like other industries. I'm often really sort of jealous of people who start, I don't know, clothing brands or jewelry brands or cosmetic brands. Not that that's hard, but you can sell direct to consumer. And that's a huge advantage in today's world where, you know, people want to click something and purchase.
• 9:55
  What makes the alcohol space really complicated is that it's highly regulated because it's a controlled substance. So specifically in the United States, there's something called the three-tier system. And this is a hangover from Prohibition, basically, where they were trying to make sure that nobody had too much control or power within the spirit sector. So there are producers, so like me, and we can only sell to a distributor.
• 10:20
  Only a distributor can sell to a retailer. So that might be a bar, a restaurant, or a store. And only a retailer can sell to a consumer. And so it does a couple of things. First of all, it means that the margins are not what they appear, because there are lots of people in this chain that...
• 10:38
  That's one thing. And the second thing is that the moment between when a consumer might see your brand, whether that be like on social media or on your website or something, and the moment that they can actually buy it, they're very far apart, both in terms of time and in physical space.
• 10:53
  And so it makes it really difficult to actually find consumers. You can get people interested, but you cannot sell. I cannot sell directly to somebody. People message me all the time on Instagram. They're like, hi, your rum looks cool. Can I buy it from you? And I'm like, no, no, you cannot, unfortunately. And that's a really, it's a really hard thing to try to navigate. So that's just one thing. I mean, in the United States, for example, there are something called control states. So there are states where the government actually sells alcohol.
• 11:23
  And they're the only ones who are allowed to sell alcohol in sort of government owned liquor stores. There are whole countries like that. Like Sweden is a good example. Canada is like that as well. So that makes it really hard because they're not sort of driven by market forces.
• 11:39
  There are lots of regulatory aspects like labeling. Every country has a different regulation on what needs to be on the label, where it needs to be on the label, how big the font needs to be. Does it need to be parallel to the bottom of the bottle? Can you make it vertical? I mean, down to the nitty gritty like that. It's super highly regulated and it makes it very difficult to navigate.
• 12:07
  Wow, that's so interesting on so many different points that you've just mentioned. Does that mean for you, like, if you're wanting to take a D2C approach, you basically have to come up with like RTD, you know, ready to drink, like mixed drinks kind of thing. Is that how you could basically reach your customer directly in a different way?
• 12:26
  That's one way, although RTDs are very different than spirits in many other ways. So, for example, in retail, that's typically a different buyer. So it doesn't necessarily have the synergies that you might think it has. What we've done, for example, is on our website,
• 12:44
  you can buy Kusama Rum. From the consumer standpoint, it feels like it's on our website. But in fact, it's routed through the distributor, a retailer, and this sort of technology platform that's enabling the sale. So from the consumer, they feel like they're on our website. They feel like they're buying it from us. But in fact...
• 13:03
  It's enabled through like this very, very long chain of people. That's why the shipping is painfully expensive. That's why I can't control what packaging it comes in, things like that. So that's the first thing we've done is enable sales through our website. And we're thinking about RTDs. But like I said, it's quite different to produce. And it's also quite different from a retail standpoint. So we're just not, we're not there yet. But certainly something that we're thinking about, you know, RTDs are obviously huge right now.
• 13:33
  Yeah, absolutely. And what about Amazon? Can you buy spirits on Amazon? Is that part of the mix or out of the mix? I don't want to say decisively no. I haven't checked, to be honest. So I'm not sure. I think in some places you can. So for example, in Germany, I know that you can sell through Amazon. In the US, I'm not sure. It's not a huge part of our business yet, although it probably should be. And I'll write that down to check after this,
• 14:02
  Yeah. Okay. Got it. So I read that you started with a small batch of around 12,000 bottles, which you sold out really, really quickly. That's amazing. Congratulations, by the way. How much money do you need to start a spirits brand? And like, what kind of capital did you need to invest in the beginning?
• 14:20
  Sure. So I invested my first investment when I came up with the idea for Kusama was in branding. So like many other people who listen to your podcast, I think I had had many, many business ideas before this and many ideas for spirits brands. But they all fizzled, you know, for various reasons, because life got in the way, because I had a job, because I sort of got maybe overwhelmed and never went through with it.
• 14:45
  So the first thing that I did was when I had this idea, I really wanted to make myself commit to it. So I said, okay, I'm going to hire a branding agency and I'm going to sort of create the packaging and the look and feel of the brand so I can feel more invested in it. So I hired an agency in Manila, Philippines called Sirius Studio. It was very important to me to work with locals who could sort of bring the brand to life in a very authentic way. That probably cost me around $10,000.
• 15:14
  And so it was an investment, but, you know, it felt like something that I was ready to take the risk on. And it really helped me because it meant that I, you know, was more committed to the idea and actually went through with it. And in terms of the first production run, which was, you know, 12,000 bottles might sound like a lot, but it's very small in the industry. And I just sort of took it as a proof of concept.
• 15:38
  You know, I thought of this brand, I made this brand up in my mind and I wondered, is there anybody else in the world who actually wants this thing? So I just made a very small production run to test that out. And that probably cost me around $50,000 that I took from my savings. But it did go well. I think there are other people in the world who want this run. And so from there, I became much more bullish and started to work on larger production runs.
• 16:04
  What's your kind of financial like approach to building this business? Are you bootstrapping, bootstrapping, bootstrapping, or are you kind of like, okay, now I've proven the concept. I read that you did another order of, I think 75,000 bottles or something like in that range. And are you thinking, yep, let's get funding like now that we've proven it?
• 16:22
  So for now, I'm still, it's a combination of bootstrapping. And then also I've been lucky to have help from my family business, which is a wonderful thing that I'm very grateful for. I used to work at, before, before Kassam, I worked at a private equity fund for four years and I worked there actually while developing because I'm a rum on the side. And to be honest, the experience made me very skeptical of taking on outside investors and
• 16:48
  I really think you should never take somebody into your business unless you absolutely have to. And so far, thankfully, I haven't needed to do that. But I'm not saying I would never do it. It's something that I'm open to. But I personally am very skeptical of funds or VC investors who are not super specialized in a specific field. So I would do it. But I think I'd be most open to investors or companies that have
• 17:16
  deep expertise within the spirits or CPG space, because I just think that capital is relatively easy to find in today's world. There are lots of investors who sort of reach out to me on LinkedIn and things like that. They're just kind of like looking for something to put their money in. And I would only do it if they could really bring deep expertise. So it's something that I'm open to, but I'm not quite there yet. Yeah, no, I totally get that. I totally get that.
• 17:42
  I'm wondering, before we get into talking about the launch of the brand and how you marketed it and like what the strategy is for launching a spirits brand with knowing all these challenges that you have to launch with. When we look back at your family's brand, your dad started Belvedere and he started Chopin. I never know how to say it because I don't have the accent, obviously. And, you know, I suck at saying those kind of words. Chopin. Being Australian. Chopin. Chopin.
• 18:07
  When you look back at his, you know, he did really well with the brand. I believe you sold Belvedere, you know, in 2008 or something like that. What do you think made the brand successful? Like everyone knows this brand. It was all over the world. Like we all know it. We can all picture it. What do you think it was about that that made the brand so successful that you're able to then take into your brand?
• 18:29
  That's an excellent question. I think it was a combination of timing and a lot of strategy. And I think every brand that gets built to that size, there's some element of magic involved in that too, just sort of luck and, you know, that contributed to it being so large. But I think it was the 90s. It was a moment of, you know, the dot-com world. Like there was, you know, people were getting rich quickly. And I think that they wanted to
• 18:57
  It was a very celebratory moment. And it was Belvedere, actually Chopin was the first luxury vodka in the world, which was created in 1992. And at the time, it was four times more expensive than any other vodka in the world. The most premium vodka in the world at the time was absolute vodka. And everybody said, you guys are crazy. Like, nobody's going to buy vodka for $35. Are you off your rockers, essentially?
• 19:23
  And the story goes is that they ordered 100,000 bottles in the beginning and they thought, okay, we're going to have this for years to come. Like, we're just going to sell it off slowly for several years. They put it in a wine type bottle. It was the first vodka to be in one of those, a tall sort of slender bottle that looks a bit like a wine to sort of signify the quality of it. And they sold out in three months.
• 19:48
  So I think it was a combination of just really high quality spirits, really unique packaging that spoke to the quality of the spirits.
• 19:58
  something unique and different, the right moment in time, and maybe some level of magic and luck, I think, as well. But what I took from that is, I think you cannot underestimate the power of packaging. I think a lot of people think the most important thing is the product inside, and absolutely that's super important. But the fact of the matter is, is that consumers buy with their eyes first.
• 20:25
  And in a sea of other products, I mean, if you imagine your local liquor store, there are thousands of bottles there. And how do you, first of all, get them to buy your product when they already have a shelf full of rums? And second of all, how do you get an end consumer to buy?
• 20:42
  of all things, pick up your bottle and actually buy it. And I think it speaks to the packaging. And so we really took a lot of time to design the brand, so the bottle itself, but also the secondary packaging. So for example, my shipper cases, I'm sort of looking at them over there. My shipper cases are really beautiful
• 21:01
  And the reason is that sometimes they get stacked in a store. And so if they're stacked in the store, I want it to be super eye-catching and exciting and really pull people's attention. And so that's what I took away from the experience was to sort of think about branding from start to finish, think about packaging in a level of detail that maybe some other brands don't think about and try to differentiate myself that way.
• 21:24
  And I think you're totally right. It's like, especially in today's world, the competition for good-looking products and great marketing is fierce. Like there are so many good-looking things. So if you're sitting, and whether this is in beauty or food or beverage, whatever, you
• 21:40
  If you're looking at two products side by side and one has better branding, you're going to go for that. And nine times out of 10, I actually think I'm the kind of girl who is a marketer's dream where like, even if I knew the product wasn't as good on the other one, I'd still probably go for the one that looks good because I'd want that to sit like on my shelf and I'd want to look at that. Definitely. Our generation is very visual in a way that I think is hard for older generations to understand. I remember having a conversation with someone recently and I said, you know, I'm not going
• 22:08
  Millennials think that everything that we buy is a representation of ourselves, whether that's our toothbrush or our suitcase or I don't know anything. We think it says something about ourselves. And so I think that's something that older generations don't understand very much. I think that's something that maybe men don't understand as much as women. Yeah.
• 22:31
  This is a very male-dominated space, and I'm actually happy about that because I think it means that there are lots of gaps that men, and I'm not mad, I'm not, you know, I think it's natural to create products that you relate to and that you want to buy. But...
• 22:46
  In reality, women are half the market. They often do most of the buying for the household. And there just aren't as many people creating alcohol brands for women. And I think it leaves lots of gaps wide open. So Kasama is my first foray, but I have lots of brands in my head that I'm working on. So this isn't the last you're going to hear from me.
• 23:09
  Yeah. And I think like in addition to that, why it's such an advantage to be a woman in that industry is like what comes to mind is, you know, speaking opportunities as if like, you know, if there's all guys on a panel, of course they need to have, you know, more women coming to the table and speaking on these topics that traditionally they haven't been
• 23:31
  you know, at the forefront of. And so that gives you a really cool advantage and opportunity to go. And like, you know, that's obviously one category, but like there would be so many opportunities like that where you can take the fact that it's male dominated and really use that to your advantage, which is awesome.
• 23:48
  Definitely. I mean, it's such a great time to be a woman in this space. I really think that, first of all, consumers are looking for something new, whether that's something owned by a person rather than a corporation or female owned or minority owned. I really think consumers are buying what their values are and retailers are really listening to.
• 24:09
  So in the case of Kassama, we have several really important American retailers. And the reason that we're there is because they had a specific initiative around female-owned spirits brands. So one is BevMo, which is, I think it's the second largest alcohol retailer in the United States, sort of alcohol specialty store in the United States. They had an initiative around female-owned spirits brands.
• 24:32
  And then there's a Midwest grocery chain called Meijer. I've never been to a Meijer, but they are my new favorite grocery store. They also had an initiative around that. And so it is a really good time. And I think for anybody who's listening, who has, who's trying to launch a brand, you know, look for retailers that.
• 24:52
  say what it is that they're looking for, because a lot of times they're being pushed by their customers to take a stand on certain things. And that means that there is space for, there is more space for female-owned brands and minority-owned brands in many cases. That's really interesting. A great time to be a woman launching a business.
• 25:12
  Let's talk about the launch. You sold out of 12,000 bottles within three months or very, very quickly. You ordered another 75,000 bottles. How did you do it? How were you selling those 12,000 bottles?
• 25:24
  Um, so it is a very grassroots operation. So as I explained, it's a very disjointed value chain in terms of how we get things to market and how consumers actually buy them. So it was a lot of hard work on my part. I also am partnered with the largest distributor in the United States, which is called Southern Glaciers Wine and Spirits. And they've been very supportive of my brand. But if you see Kassama,
• 25:49
  in a liquor store or a restaurant, it probably means that somebody, so either me or somebody from the distributor, probably physically went to that location, set up a meeting, you know, tasted the buyer and had to hand sell that product in. And so it's a lot of just pounding the pavement and literally going to all of these. That hand-to-hand combat strategy.
• 26:12
  That's what I say, exactly. Every single liquor store, every restaurant, every bar, every hotel, every grocery store is a battle. And it's a continuous battle because you can get it in one day and then sell out or not sell and then somebody else will take your spot. So it's a continuous battle in every single location, which is another thing that makes it really, really hard. But we have also had a lot of sort of grassroots support from the community, especially
• 26:41
  It's a Filipino brand, as I mentioned, and Filipinos are so supportive of their own. I think they're really excited to see a brand that represents their country and culture in a way that's modern and exciting to them. And it's also, this is key, not just for Filipinos. I think a lot of times we do a lot of talking to ourselves about how great
• 27:02
  you know, how great our country is, how great our food is, how great our culture is. But I think I really said, I want to be a brand that's loudly and proudly Filipino, but not just for Filipinos. And so we've gotten a lot of, you know, write-ups in mainstream press and things like that. But the Filipino community is certainly my base, and they've done an amazing job in being so supportive, but also sharing it with other people. And I would say that that's how we...
• 27:28
  that really contributes to our success so far and how we sold out of that first 12,000 bottles. Yeah, that's so cool. And I have read a few of your really cool pieces. You're in Vogue, you're in Forbes, you're in all the places. Was that a matter of you, you know, finding journalists and emailing them yourself? Or did you hire someone specifically to run your PR efforts?
• 27:50
  So one of the very first things I did was hire a PR agency. I knew that it wasn't a skill set that I had. I thought that we had a really cool story that people, I hoped, would want to write about. And so I hired an agency in New York in November of last year, and they're absolutely amazing. I love them.
• 28:09
  And they've done an amazing job of telling our story and getting it out there. But also we're helped by the fact that alcohol, thankfully, is a very high interest category. You know, people really are interested in it. They want to talk about it. They want to write about it. They have questions. And so I think it's been, I don't want to say easy. There are lots of alcohol brands. But I think it's easier than some other categories, which maybe aren't as newsworthy.
• 28:34
  Yeah, totally get that. And I think as well, you have a really great story. You have a great background story, you know, with your experience, with your family business and obviously merging these two cultures together and doing something so unique in an industry that's male dominated and has typically not been catered towards the millennial woman. So I can see why it's a great story and why Press would love to write about you. And again, for anyone listening, it's like,
• 28:59
  Make sure that you're crafting stories that are compelling, that other people would want to know about and read about that aren't just the same message that another brand is putting out into the media. Find what's unique about you and what's your point of difference and make sure that that story is told so that other people can get excited about the brand. Love that.
• 29:19
  When you think back in hindsight about building this brand, obviously you said you've had ideas around alcohol spirits brands for a really long time. And this is sort of on the newer side, I guess you would say. What was absolutely critical? Like what's the absolutely critical to do's and not to do's for anyone who wants to get into the beverage industry or specifically in alcohol and spirits?
• 29:44
  So a few things I think you really need to figure out why you're existing, what the gap is that you are filling. So as I mentioned before, I spoke a bit about sort of that nautical rut with rum, but there was a more specific gap even. So on the one end, there are...
• 30:01
  inexpensive rums that have cartoon pirates on them, cartoon sailors, parrots, things like that. And then there are actually a lot of really wonderful high-end rums. But again, they had sort of these old dead men on them or galleon ships and things like that. And there was sort of a gap both in terms of the branding, but also the price point. So we retail in the United States for around $30.
• 30:22
  There aren't that many rums at that price point. There are cheaper rums and there are a lot of more expensive rums, but there aren't that many in the middle. So that was more tactically the price point gap that we were filling. So that would be one. But you also, of course, have to have something that tastes good. I call it because I'm a crowd pleaser. It was really designed to be light, to be something that a lot of people would like to sip on, but also a great base for tropical cocktails. So we really tried to
• 30:49
  make something that a lot of people would enjoy. It's 40% alcohol, which is the lowest rum can be in terms of alcohol content to be considered a rum. But again, that was very tactical. There are lots of rums that are high. They're called overproof rums in the sort of 50 something range. I don't think that there are lots of people who want rums like that.
• 31:12
  I think that there are more people who want something that is pleasant to sip on its own or, you know, easy to mix into a cocktail. And so at every stage, we really thought, how can we make this something that will A, fill a gap and B, please a lot of people? And so that's something that's really worked out for us. And if you think about the flip side of that,
• 31:37
  what should people really not do? Like what's something that is like, maybe you've experienced where you've wasted time and you wasted money that other people could avoid by knowing from you? That's a great question. I mean, I think, first of all,
• 31:53
  I'm a perfectionist. And there's this quote from Mark Cuban that I love, which is like, perfectionism is the enemy of every entrepreneur. I think you just have to, sometimes you just got to suck it up. And even if you don't love it, you just need to say, okay, it's good enough. And I need to keep going. I think some people invest way too much money in branding up front.
• 32:11
  I think sometimes I hear, I was actually listening to one of your podcasts a couple of days ago, and one of the entrepreneurs had spent an eye-watering sum, in my opinion, on the branding. I just don't think that that's necessary anymore. And I think it's more important to prove the concept early on. So...
• 32:30
  One thing I recommend is, especially in the United States or, you know, maybe in the UK, branding can often be very expensive. So one of the ways that I save money is by turning to creatives who are outside those places. So like I said, I worked with a company in the Philippines. I do a lot of my content creation actually here in Poland. And so it ends up being a lot less expensive, but also really high quality. So what I would say is, you know, don't,
• 32:57
  Of course, everything needs to be really high quality, but don't overspend too early on, especially if you don't have to. Absolutely. I love the saying done is better than perfect. And I really operate by that. And I absolutely tell my team to operate by that because otherwise you can just waste so much time being really nitpicky.
• 33:19
  Yes, I had this moment yesterday. I was at our printing house and I was printing some boxes for Kassama Rum and it's quite a small run. So we had to do SMIC colors, they're called the digital colors instead of Pantone colors. And it didn't match exactly. And I just thought, okay, take a deep breath. Just get it out the door. You're going to spend way too much time trying to color match this thing that nobody else is going to notice except for you. Just keep going. And so it's something I keep telling myself.
• 33:49
  Yeah, absolutely. And I think just being like, is this really important? No, let's just get it out and move on. Yep.
• 33:57
  Something I'm always curious about, and I feel like I don't ask this enough on the show, but you're the first person I've spoken to in spirits and kind of in this side of the industry. So I'm interested. Now you were telling me about this three-tier system where, you know, people aren't able to buy directly from you, which obviously changes your margin significantly. If you were, you know, doing D2C versus a retail approach where there's this three-tier system.
• 34:21
  How does that work like for the economics? Like, do you aim to be profitable? Do you aim to make money from this only when you sell? Like, what's the financial side of building a business like this that has these challenges?
• 34:36
  That's an excellent question. So I do not aim to be profitable on a unit basis. I think it's very hard to be an independent spirits brand and actually to make money on it. So my goal is to break even, but then eventually to sell this or one of the other brands in my mind to a larger strategic. And I think that that's my entire investment thesis. It would be extraordinarily
• 35:06
  to make money on a unit by unit basis because the margins are so, despite how, what consumers think the margins are so thin in fact. So it's a long-term play for sure. It's, I am not making money selling individual bottles of rum, but hopefully in creating a brand, there's a lot of value there. And also, you know,
• 35:26
  in creating the distribution network. That's also something that's very important. When strategics are considering different companies to acquire, they look at how many cases, we call it cases. A case is typically a box of 12. How many cases did you do in the last year? And that's an indication of both how wide was your distribution and how large was the consumer demand. But very rarely do they actually look at profitability because it's nearly impossible to make money on a case-by-case basis. Yeah.
• 35:54
  And so in that kind of regard, essentially the plan would be, if your goal was, you know, I know you're thinking like whether it be this brand or another brand, just say it's this brand for argument's sake. Does that mean the strategy would be just grow at all costs, be as many places as possible, have a really loyal customer base who is buying through these stores or potentially through your website, but through these other stores and then aim for acquisition? Yeah.
• 36:20
  Yes, but I will say I'm still doing it in quite a conservative way. So if I really wanted to grow at all costs, I would raise as much money as possible, spend as much money as possible right now and try to get out as fast as possible. And it hasn't been what I've done so far.
• 36:36
  So right now I'm still trying to break even, trying to invest in things that I think make sense. I'm really using Kusama, which is a deeply personal brand for me, as I explained, as a, it's almost a sort of guinea pig to learn about what works, what doesn't work, and then take those learnings and keep doing the same thing again and again with other brands.
• 36:58
  Yeah, absolutely. And one last question while we're on this topic of, you know, exit and acquisitions and profit or not profit and this kind of thing. And I'm asking simply because, you know, as you know, I'm building a brand in the beverage industry. So all of this is super insightful to me.
• 37:15
  When you're building this at this stage early on, are you already thinking like, this is who I want to acquire me? Are you already going out and making those connections to be like, hey, what does it take to sell? What do you look for in a brand that you're going to buy? Or do you already know that because of your past experiences with your family? And what's the kind of approach to that that you're taking? So I definitely built it with
• 37:41
  the possibility of acquisition in mind. But there's still a lot to learn. I mean, some of it came from my background in the private equity space, but I am having those conversations. I've had several large alcohol brands, not brands, companies reach out to me and say, oh, we have venture arms now and we're looking for smaller brands to acquire. Let's have a conversation. I say, sure, I'm happy to have a conversation with anybody.
• 38:06
  But it's certainly useful to speak to them, to learn about what is it that they're looking for. Some will say, we love that you are, that it's a rum. We don't have a rum like this in our portfolio. Some of them will say, oh, well, we love that you're reaching this niche market. We like the price point. So...
• 38:24
  Definitely, I'm open to having those conversations, but it's something I'm still learning about. There are a few really obvious companies that may or may not be interested in acquiring me, but there are also lots of still very large, but perhaps not household names that could also be potential exits for the brand. And I'm very happy to speak to anyone, but I'm not interested in selling it just yet. It's still a long way to go.
• 38:49
  Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, that's so cool. Thank you for sharing that insight. Super useful for me to understand, you know, the landscape a little bit better and how it works for other industries.
• 38:59
  Would love to know what you can shout about the brand. Where is it today? How big is your team? What fun things are coming up in the future? All that kind of good stuff. Sure. So we are currently distributed in the US, Poland, and Lebanon, which is kind of a fun, unexpected market. In the US, we're nearly 2,000 stores in Australia.
• 39:20
  I think it's 34 states at last count. So we're still working on reaching all 50 states. Like I said, we're in some really big names like BevMo, Meijer, we're also in selected total wines, but we're certainly trying to build, constantly build our distribution
• 39:36
  In Poland, we're in some of the largest European retailers. So Oshon, Carrefour, as well as in Duty Free. It's a company called Le Gardere Travel Retail. They have lots of retail stores and airports around Europe and the rest of the world. So that's something we're very excited about, is to see that we have had traction in these very prestigious retailers.
• 40:00
  In terms of the team, so I am the only person who works full time on Kasama Rum, although I have a lot of support, which is really wonderful and I'm really grateful for. My mom is actually a huge help to me. She was an entrepreneur herself. She ran her own business for 25 years. And so she has lots and lots of expertise in this space.
• 40:24
  And lucky for me, she retired last year, but she's sort of a person who's filled with energy. So I am lucky to be able to divert her energy into helping me with Kusama and a lot of our daily tasks. So, for example, if you go to our website, she's the one who has diligently entered every single retailer, almost 2,000 stores into our website.
• 40:45
  Shout out to your mom. I know. That's so cool. I lovingly call her my unpaid intern. So I love her so much and I'm so grateful for her help. And then I have a PR team, as I mentioned, that helps me. I also have a company that helps me with social media management and content creation.
• 41:04
  But I actually, I need to build out our marketing capabilities. I know that that's something that we're lacking right now. I'm starting to think about hiring a marketing director to lead this full time. So if any of your listeners are interested or know somebody who might be, I'm very interested in hiring for that role. And my email is alexandra at kusamaram.com if you want to send something my way.
• 41:29
  I'll make sure it goes in our newsletter as well. I'll put a little job ad in there for you. Please do. And then, like I said, we're partnered with the largest retailer, sorry, distributor in the United States. And so they have something like 20,000 people who work for them across the country. And so that's another way that we actually get into individual stores.
• 41:50
  Got it. Wow. That blows my mind that you're the only full-time person working on this brand when you're in 2000 stores and you've already had such success really early on in the journey. That's just incredible. Gosh, testament to you and your hard work. Love that. What is your key piece of advice for women who are also on the entrepreneurial journey, but earlier on?
• 42:14
  Yeah, I think it really depends on where you are in your journey. So if you are quite early and you know you want to start a business one day, my advice is go work for a company that does something similar and just learn as much as you can.
• 42:28
  I always knew I wanted to get into the CPG space. And so when I graduated from university, I went to work for Giovanni Yogurt in New York. And for those of you who are familiar with Giovanni, I think it's arguably one of the greatest CPG success stories of the last 20 years. And so I went there and I started as an admin, which I was working.
• 42:50
  not happy about, but I just went there and I said, I want to learn everything a person could possibly learn in this company. And I would just volunteer for random jobs and eavesdrop on conversations and just try to get as much knowledge as I could while I was there. And I still keep in touch with lots of my colleagues and managers from Chobani and seek out their advice for certain things. So if you have time, try to do that.
• 43:14
  If you don't have that much time, what I would say is what really helped me was actually putting money behind the idea. So like I said, when I first had the idea, I said, I don't want to let this one fizzle out. I'm going to invest some money into this and it's going to keep me committed and make sure that I follow through. And so I think if you're a person who's always wanted to start a business, you know, just never kind of fully went through with it. That's what I would say.
• 43:43
  Invest your time, but also your capital. And then I think it really helps to make you feel committed to the idea. That's so true. That's so true. And an amount that's like...
• 43:56
  You know, if you lost it, it would be terrible, but it's not going to ruin you. And also an amount that's big enough that you're not, you know, if it's a small amount that you're just like, meh, I can move on from that. You know, it was a thousand dollars. I'm happy to lose it. No, I think exactly. It's about striking the right balance of something you can invest, but also something that would it would hurt if you if you lost it.
• 44:18
  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Gosh, that's so cool. Thank you for that advice. At the end of every episode, we ask a series of six quick questions, as I'm sure you know from listening to the show. So question number one is, what's your why? Why do you do what you do?
• 44:33
  So my why is that I absolutely love to create brands. And for me, it's not just about a product. It's about sort of dreaming up a world that I wish existed and that I wanted to live in and bringing more people to share in that with me. And I'm just really lucky to be able to do it in a space that I really love. You know, I don't think that...
• 44:56
  Alcohol is not a sector without its problems, but I think that at its very best, it's something that helps to bring people together. You know, it's something that people use to help mark major milestones in their lives. And I just feel really lucky to have a product that helps people celebrate special moments in their lives. I love that. Question number two is what has been the number one marketing moment so far that made the business pop?
• 45:24
  So we're very new, as I mentioned, we only officially launched in February of this year. So I don't think that we've quite had our pop yet, but for us, I think one of the best marketing things I've done so far is hire the PR agency that I work with. They're four fabulous women,
• 45:40
  based in New York. And we, you know, I still am waiting for my New York Times article, but we have had a lot of press since launch. And so for us, I think it hasn't been about our pop. I think our pop is still yet to come, but we've had a lot of smaller and continuous wins over time. And that's really helped to drive sales.
• 46:03
  So for example, in Hawaii, we had a lot of local press and it helped us sell out twice. And we've already exceeded our yearly goal by 4x in the first half of this year. So I think it's about sort of small and successive wins on the marketing front. That's awesome. Question number three is where do you hang out to get smarter? What are you reading or listening to or subscribing to that others would benefit from knowing about?
• 46:33
  So like every entrepreneur, I love the podcast, How I Built This. But I also really love your podcast. And I have been a genuine listener for a while now. I love that you interview women who are really in the thick of it. And I think they can give a really honest account of what it's actually like to build a business. For me, there are definitely a lot of newsletters that I subscribe to. There's one called The Brown Report, which is a daily alcohol-focused newsletter. So I get really topical news at the start of every day.
• 47:03
  But beyond, you know, books or podcasts, I really call on my network. Like I said, I'm still in touch with former colleagues from Chobani who give me a lot of advice. I sometimes just sort of cold message people on LinkedIn and ask them if they would give me some of their time. So I think the main place that I hang out to get smarter is with my network and asking people with much more expertise than I have for their advice.
• 47:31
  I love that. And I'm going to use this as an opportunity to plug our private network that we are launching on the 12th of July. It might actually be close to when this episode comes out. So hopefully it comes out before the 12th of July. But we would also love to obviously invite you in there and have you as part of the podcast.
• 47:50
  the initial cohort, helping other women who are on the journey looking for insights and additional learnings and things like that. But for anyone listening, if you're looking for community, if you're looking to build your network, if you're looking for mentorship, if you're looking for coaching, if you're looking for an extension of your team and people to help you, then I highly recommend joining as a founding member on the 12th of July. Love that.
• 48:15
  Very exciting. Question number four is how do you win the day? What are your AM or PM rituals and habits that keep you feeling happy and successful and motivated?
• 48:26
  So I got really into walking during the first lockdown. I would spend like two to three hours a day on walks to sort of keep me sane. And it's something that I've tried to keep up. Obviously, I don't have as much time anymore to spend doing that. But if I really want to have a good start to my day, I love to go on a long walk before I start work, listen to one of my favorite podcasts, which for me is like a very solitary activity and start the day that way.
• 48:56
  started trying to meditate. I certainly don't know how to do it yet, but the intention is there and I intend to keep practicing and getting better at it. Ditto. I'm in that same camp at the moment. Question number five is if you were given a thousand dollars of no strings attached grant money, where would you spend it in the business?
• 49:19
  That's an excellent question. I think I would spend it on trying to get the product into the hands of the right people who could help me grow the business further. So we do a lot of PR sampling, for example, or a lot of influencer sampling. So I think if I had...
• 49:35
  $1,000, I would probably spend it on trying to get the product into the hands of the right people. My mom is the one who's responsible for this at our company. And so I think I would also like strategize with her on how to make the package really memorable and stand out. You know, I know a lot of people get these sort of influencer packages these days, but that's what I would do with $1,000.
• 49:57
  Love it. And question number six, last question is how do you deal with failure? What's your mindset and approach when things don't go to plan?
• 50:06
  I genuinely believe that everything happens for a reason. And I can think of many moments in my life where I really wanted something to happen and I either failed at it or it didn't work out for some reason. And it pushed me in a different direction, which was the one that I was actually supposed to go in. So that's just what I think and try to focus on when something doesn't work out. There's something else that you're supposed to be doing with your time. There's something else that's hopefully bigger and better that's waiting for you.
• 50:33
  and don't get discouraged you know to be an entrepreneur is very difficult and I think you have to have a lot of perseverance but also some level of delusional optimism and so I think you need to combine those two when you when you experience failure I love that you really do need delusional optimism that is so true
• 50:57
  Oh, this was awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show today and share your learnings and the insights into this industry. It's been super fascinating and really helpful for me. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.
• 51:14
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 51:39
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 52:01
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that. Thank you.
• 52:17
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 52:42
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 53:04
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.