Latest / From Sad Pick Me Girl to Alchemist / Episode 19 - The Lost Art of Desire: What Men & Women Need to Know About Intimacy & Attraction
Transcript
- Denise: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of From Sad Pick Me Girl to Alchemist. Today I am so excited to have Dennis here. I will let him touch a little bit more on what he does, but I want to preface by saying that I always like to connect with people who are either stepping into or have stepped into their purpose in life. And I think that what that looks like is different for all of us. What stood out to me in particular about Dennis was his content surrounding teaching men things that they didn't learn in school about intimacy. And I think that's so important in this day and age. I like to encourage healthy masculinity because I used to tell myself that it didn't exist. And I'm starting to see that more in my reality. So I'm very grateful that I came across this content. And with that, Dennis, I'll let you explain a little bit more about what you do and what led you to start doing that. Denis: Thanks, Denise. And what I actually do is I do intimacy and relationship coaching. And specifically what that means, because some people will be like, what what the hell is this, right? it's when we are young, we learn how to ride a bike. We learn how to write, we'll learn how to speak, but With intimacy specifically and relationships, everybody is different. They're just like, okay, I tried it once, now I know it, right? Men have this weird attitude that if I have something dangling between my feet, then I know how to do it. It's just like lots of ego and lots of all of that. The reality is it's a skill. Both having relationships, maintaining desire, having great intimacy and sex life, all of that is actually. skill that can be learned. It's not a hard skill. yet at the same time it actually needs for certain things to happen. Like you need to shed your ego and you need to actually acknowledge that you need to learn it. Then you need to actually focus on the partner, not on yourself. And yeah it's it's very rewarding to to transform whenever I actually get through and them thriving in the relationship because I don't know you probably heard this thing that a woman can ac either uplift you to absolute crazy heights Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: or she can destroy you. And this is so true. But I think man has much more power in creating that as It's used to belie it like we're let to be believed that it's actually like we're on a whim, whatever we are dealt in terms of a woman that we get and that's it. It is not. So shaping your reality without forcing the other person, this is what I'm focusing on. When you create desire when the actually other person wants to contribute, wants Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: to get involved and create the life and relationship and everything with you together, the the one that you actually want. Denise: Right. And now I also want to touch on because something that we have in common is we're both divorced, how did that shape the way that you view intimacy and what you do now? 'Cause if I remember correctly, you started doing this work af post divorce, correct? Denis: I started a little bit prior to divorce because I was trying to solve my own problems. And I think that's how all of us arrive at this in one form or another. Denise: Yeah. Denis: but after divorce, I really focused on honing my skills because I was trying to solve my problem. I also have Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: a son who is six right now, and I do not want in any way for him to go through this stuff. So he's my inspiration to create content that can eventually teach him all of the skills and also help other men. to do that. the way it shaped me is that I understand the issues that I had and one of the issues was I wasn't maintaining desire. Like I didn't know how, right? I didn't know what the hell desire was. Denise: Mm. Mm-hmm. Denis: how to properly create the dynamic, how to maintain it, how to maintain boundaries, how to work on myself, that I'm as a man I'm at the top of my game always. Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: You probably heard this somewhere, especially women know this. And whenever that is said, everybody's just like, yeah, I know this. Whenever a woman is asked, like, why did she leave? And other women would say, Well, she wanted a real man. And all Denise: Mm. Denis: of the women get it. Men would be like, What? What is she Denise: Yeah. Denis: talking about? Like, isn't he a man? But the reality, like, for women, is completely different. And I understood that part of the downfall of my relationship, I wasn't picking up my part. And Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: and this is like I I won't get into like who my partner was and everything because, you know, there is her side and there's my side. And I take responsibility Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: for not being the man that I should have been. And Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: that that led me to transformation, that led me to learning. And since then I had great relationships and I still have completely different, like entirely different. Denise: Yeah, and I think that that's one of the things that I've noticed about you and your content is accountability. Accountability for the role that we play in relationships that I want to say fail, and I hate to use the word fail, it's not fail because we take something and if we learn something from it, even if it's a marriage, sometimes they end, and to be able to step away and to learn to do better. So when men come to you, what is typically their biggest hurdle that they are currently undergoing or what is it that leads them to seek you as or for for guidance rather. Denis: Yeah. The main thing is well, there's a surface reason and there Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: is underlying reason. The surface reason is they're saying they're in some form or fashion of a dead bedroom because there's different varieties of it, right? Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: There is a classical one when they just kind of drifted apart and they're not having sex, but there is also sex without desire. That's also F in my book that's a dead bedroom because one of the people does not have desire. One is performing a d duty. For me it's just like an intimacy. What the hell? Like why are you but that's besides the point, right? but if you dig underneath all of that is about desire. How do you maintain desire? How do you create desire? and I think the there's There's responsibility on each side for certain things, Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: but for desire, primarily it's on men. I know it sounds weird coming from a guy, you know, especially, you know, in the internet, everybody is like she's the fault, she did this, she did it. Denise: Yeah. Denis: No. Like here, men are responsible for desire. They create it and they help maintain it. Denise: Okay, and can you elaborate on that? I'm so curious because I've not heard that I always I mean, we hear everything but it's it's interesting to see you saying that it's Denis: Mm-hmm. Denise: majority men. So yeah, if you can elaborate on what you mean by that'd be awesome. Denis: Yeah. so I I'll kind of come a little bit from afar and you understand why. when we there's certain things that for example, women say they like certain things. Denise: Mm. Denis: But the reality is a lot of times what they say is about I wanna I want a guy that I have desire for and I want him to have all of those things. Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: So they don't talk about the part like how how do you be the man that she actually wants? And Denise: Right. Denis: that's where I come in because I look at the at the data, at things that work, at Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: things that both in sex and pre sex, like in in the j just general relationship, and I look at things Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: that work. And this is where a guy so in a woman desire is something that is it's a feeling. It's not something that a woman can be like pinpointed. She c she can start naming things, but they will be logical. It's not about logic, it's about a feeling that she has, right? And Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: the feeling responds to biological impulses that we had for thousands of years that are ingrained in us. And so Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: men need to actually embody those. And most of them are actually they're behavioral. They're not ob obviously you need to look decent, you need to make sure you maintain your body, like all of those things, right? But most of it is behavioral. Denise: Right. Mm-hmm. Denis: Because that's how we communicate that we are somebody that are worthwhile to procreate with because that's our biological need underneath it all. Denise: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. And so I do have a question when it comes to desire, because keeping desire is something that even I myself I've done a lot of subconscious work because I was always I think f When you're wounded, it's you're drawn to people that are unavailable and that creates a desire, but that's a different and complicated layer. But I do find what I'm seeing now with men that I encounter is they fear that if they show too much affection, if they show too much attention, that women will run. What is your view on that? Because I think that that's a narrative that men tell themselves that's common. And I don't know if you hear that, but they're like, if I show too much interest, and maybe you're working with people who are already in committed relationships and you don't encounter this, but either way, I'm curious what your perspective on that mindset is. Okay. Denis: Mm-hmm. Denise: what I hear often now that I feel like I've worked on this wound of wanting people th the desire coming from the lack of availability. Now what I'm encountering is men who are afraid of showing too much attention we'll call it because they're afraid that that will decrease the desire on my end when I say, No, I want you to be open and vulnerable and so there's this disconnect that I'm seeing and I wanna get your take on what if you s work with men that are like that or what your view is on that because I think that's a common narrative. Denis: Yeah. Yeah. And I think so there is truth to that, the psychological side of it, but Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: it's misused and misplaced most of the time. So when men are taught that they shouldn't show affection too much and things like that, and they're like, I'm not gonna show too much affection, I'm like that is the end result of you being somebody, not the other way around. If you're just showing that behavior, but You don't occupy yourself with anything and your life is actually I'm sitting on the couch, but I'm showing this behavior and I'm calculating when should I respond to her and all of those things. It's just like you are trying to fake the behavior of somebody who's actually busy, who's actually building a life, who's actually has a mission and things like that. And I think that's Denise: Mm. Denis: where the distinction comes in. Denise: Yeah. Denis: So my first thing is like don't ever do that kind of calculation. Don't overshow your desire and things like that. Obviously, don't say, you know, I I and I've had that case when a person said I love you on the first date to a woman. Of course she ran. I'm like, you kidding me? No, it's like let her develop the feelings in the Yeah, exactly. Denise: Jeez. Yeah. Most of us would. Yeah. Denis: but but the reality is if you're building your life, the woman is a great amazing addition to your life, but she cannot be focus of your life. And this is actually one of the things is like women love to be with a man who's driven, who has a mission, and they constantly test him to make sure like, can I shift him away from that? Is he really that? Is he really strong in that? Or can I shift him away and he can focus on me? But because as soon as he focuses on her full on, she loses interest. Because like he's weak there. Like If he's weak and that actually I have a thing that I teach all of my students right in the beginning. woman is the best litmus test for how strong you are ever. If you can be with a woman and you can maintain your frame and you can do all of those things while loving her and she's still with you, you can beat any business deal, any man, any group of people, you can be like the top dog everywhere. Just easily. So women are amazing at that. And and and Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: this is I think what people r don't realize when they start this stupid blame game for no reason. It's just like take responsibility and accountability of who you are Denise: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Denis: or who you are not. Yeah. Like Denise: Thank you. Yes. No, it's so true. And I think that there's this as I talked to you when we we spoke last week, it's just there's this thing right now where men and women obviously want love, they want intimacy, they want a lot of us want long-term partnership and some of us don't want monogamy, but s most of us do, vast majority. And what's happening is there's this blame where women are like men are not real men anymore, and men are like, women don't provide anything. So I would really like to get your view on the disconnect too, because I think what it is on my end is there's a lack of self-focus. We're not f we should never center even women shouldn't center their life around finding a partner because it's not attractive. It's about focusing on what you want to do with your life and building your own life. And then when you find a partner, ideally that you guys help each other to grow, right? And I I would love to get your view on that too, because some men I think are still in this thing where women should be submissive and women should like their d goals should be secondary. And I'm saying this 'cause I get ripped apart as I mentioned to you on social media when I share anything about my independence. It's it's it's I get complimented and ripped apart equally so. But it it's been it's been interesting. So yeah, what is your take on that disconnect when it comes to men and women and f we'll say finding love? Denis: So I think it's similar issue that I mentioned in in the previous answer is that we are putting the cart before the ho or in front of the horse, right? Because Denise: Did say that. Yeah. Denis: women being submissive is the result, not the behavior you're trying to force in any way. It's the result. Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: So I'll I'll give you give you a very specific example. So when a man is exhibiting masculine trained. So like he he really is a man. He's taking care of everything and he's watch how the woman becomes. You you can even kind of backtrack and like just reminisce about how you behaved as well. I've heard comments so many times, like in my relationships and in others, women are just like, Where are we? What what are we even doing? She she just gets lost and spaced out entirely. And that reason is because she can finally relax fully. Because she feels that she's fully protected, she's safe, she's taken care of, she's loved, she's accepted, Denise: Yeah. Denis: like all of those things. And that's where, you know, she you know, it's a traits that are submissive. But nobody talks about it like this. They're just like, she's relaxed, she's safe, she's like all of those things. But the reality is, if you think about it, it's submissive traits, right? Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: But if man say, I want a submissive woman, but you you don't account to anything as a man, like what the hell are you talking about? Like you don't deserve any of it. And the thing is, Denise: Right. Mm-hmm. Denis: it's not about even the deserfer is probably a loaded word. we can't demand it. All of that Denise: Right. Denis: is freely given. And and this is actually in intimate relationships is the same thing. When you're taking care of the partner, none of it is forced. None of it is like I'm bearing through this. No, all of it is willfully given. And in in general, like when my philosophy about relationships is both sides willfully give. Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: without expecting without counting like, he gave me this and I gave him that or whatever. No. It's like both are giving. The giving on a deeper level is different. And to me, I think it's the worst thing because I've been in this situation when a woman is behaving like a child. So she's not, as you said, independent. She's not, and it doesn't mean that she's earning a lot. It's not about that. It just means that She is a capable adult and she's acting like a capable adult. For me, that's taking accountability, taking responsibility for certain things. Even like Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: I'm fine the woman not working if she doesn't want to. I'm totally fine with that. Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: But you still take accountability and responsibility for your feelings, for your emotions, for making sure that you can navigate in life in a certain way. Yes, when we Denise: Yeah. Denis: are together, I'm taking care of it, of course. But we're not together twenty four seven, right? Denise: Right. Denis: So yeah. Denise: Yeah, I think there's a healthy balance always of masculinity and femininity too. And I do think with women right now, and like I'm talking about myself in particular, I like tend to lean heavily towards masculinity because it's a defense mechanism. But like when you nurture the femininity, you bring that out more. But I do want to get also your take on To me, I think men are supposed to lead. That men are supposed to Denis: Mm-hmm. Denise: lead in every way. And so I don't know if women are not allowing men to lead because they feel unsafe or what it is. But do you find that to be true? Because I think that like somewhere Denis: yeah. Denise: along the lines, there's something that's not happening where I'm like, I want you to take the lead. I don't wanna have to ask you to do things like ask me how my day was. That should just be your thought. Like you know, like Denis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so the crazy thing here, I I absolutely agree with you. A hundred percent. Denise: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Denis: I think the crazy thing here is that we are like right now living in an age when people are they're demanding way too much without being not providing but being somebody who can actually even start to think about demanding. Denise: Hmm. Denis: So if I'll I'll talk about guys if they are they're not like look look at men, I don't know, fifty, forty years ago. Completely different. Denise: Yeah. Denis: Responsibility, accountability, the stuff that they talked Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: about, completely different. And look at men right now. Lots of complaining, lots of this. I I'm all about being psychologically healthy and talking through your issues and your feelings and Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: stuff like that, but I think we kinda leaned way too much into that. And Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: like he's a jerk, that's that's all he is. And he is like mm he's showing narcissistic traits, that's all he's doing. And now he's Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: demanding that everybody's supposed to be like, I'm a like healthy masculine figure. Like, no, you're not, you're a jerk. And like that that's yeah, Denise: Describing everybody I've dated at the post wars. Denis: but a lot a lot of times that that's what it is. And I think with women, it it's also there is a way for women to to lead and to take charge, but in a very feminine way. That men cannot replicate at all. Like for example, women in sales are freaking amazing. Have you have you ever, you know, experienced that? So much compassion in sales, yeah. Because they can Denise: Women in sales. Yeah. Your ability to connect. Denis: Yeah, they can talk about things that men can never talk about. They Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: can say things that men can never say, they can like be borderline offensive, but in such compassionate way. That people take it as, yeah, I really am feeling this. Men say that, you're like, dude, what are you even talking about? Like just get away from me. So, Denise: Yeah. Denis: like, like lots of those. Because I the thing is, my past is I've been in as a C level executive for past fifteen years prior to doing this. So I've seen lots and lots in corporate world when women are trying to behave like men, and they became this. Very aggressive, very like the same traits, the same everything. And everybody is just like, she's she's a bitch. Like she's horrible. She's just like, I I don't wanna deal with her. I don't wanna even come close to her, right? And everybody complains. But then there's other women that are going through compassion, through support and everything. You're just like, I wanna work for her. I wanna work with her, like in every which way, because she is Denise: Yeah. Denis: so amazing. And and before I didn't understand what the hell that was, but now I understand this is This is like true femininity in its like Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: truest form. So powerful. Extremely powerful. Both in the office and outside. But Denise: Right. Denis: I think we kind of lost it because we're trying to and we're trying to bring men the other way as well. Because women are just saying things like, Well, he needs to share his feelings, he needs to do this and stuff like that. When men starts to share their feelings, of course they are like, I'm now complaining, and that because that's how we do it, right? And Denise: Yeah. Denis: And and you guys are like, What a wuss? Like why the why the hell? What is happening? Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: Because there is a healthy manly way to open up about your feelings as well. Denise: Yeah. Denis: But that's not what men are doing most of the time. So yeah. Denise: Yeah, it's a the balance and I yeah, I've seen both ends where you know there there's a healthy balance when you express your feelings in a masculine way. But I think that for any man or woman, there's a balance of femininity and masculinity in all of us, right? Denis: Absolutely, yeah. Denise: And so tying this back to desire though, so when you coach people through desire, is it primarily because I'm curious how it's maintained in monogamous relationships because what right now what I find is very common is either people are in a monogamous relationship and like you said, one of them is just like a it's a duty, right? It's not like they're really driven and they're really attracted to their partner, or you have people that just have multiple partners because they don't know how to maintain that chemistry and connection for a long term. And so how do you maintain it monogamously? Is there a way? Like what is what is your viewpoint on that? Denis: There is a way and this is like major focus of what I actually do and my work. With men is when you're in a relationship, especially especially long term, it kinda erodes certain things. Denise: Yeah. Denis: novelty, for example, is not there anymore. Mystery Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: kinda goes out of the window just because of how we are sharing and how we tend to drift towards each other. and as a result, s primarily women, they start to lose desire. And that's why there is an epidemic of divorces when they say, like, okay, I got bored, I'm not interested, I wanna be happy, like all of those things. All valid things, but they're driven because men do not know how to maintain desire. Like women do. For women it's easy. I mean, just show a little bit of affection, a little bit of touch to to the man and sleep with him, feed him as as they joke. And that's it. Like we're we're simple creatures, right? With women it's Denise: Yeah. Great. Denis: completely different. Because with women, it's The primary thing about women is they want to feel something. They want to experience a feeling. If they cannot experience that feeling with a man that they are with, they will hold off for a bit, but eventually they will start looking elsewhere for those same emotions. So a man needs to provide them, he needs to generate them. And those emotions are both positive and they're negative as well. The positive ones are they are related. And and now I'm decoding, you know how people say, just date her. And I'm like, I hate this advice because it doesn't give any practical things. Okay, you go on a date once a week, it's scheduled, it's boring. Most of the time, she knows where the hell you're going, what the hell you're doing, and all of those things. It's like Denise: Yeah. Yeah. Denis: And and it's also it feels like very corporate even in a way, which is which is the word that you know exactly, exactly. So instead, Denise: Like a checklist. Yeah. Yeah. Denis: when you're decoding this, there's multiple theories on how to go around it. One of the theories is when you look at there's this concept of emotional spikes. So I'm giving you pretty much like everything right now. But a concept of emotional spikes. The emotional spikes are when you're spiking the emotion of a woman and with something that you do. And Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: those spikes, they are like a heartbeat of your relationship. If you do them too often, you can't do them too often. So like if you do it every day, that's not a good thing because it becomes new normal. Denise: Right. Denis: So so it needs to be every like a couple weeks or something like this. maybe maybe even once a month, depending on how the relationship is going. And the way you do them, it can be very, very simple. For example, you're leaving for work. Inside of a fridge or on the fridge, live a note. I love you. Denise: Hmm. Denis: Most of men don't even do that. Okay, that's that was a simple example. Maybe do it a little more sneakily. And when she opens something, like for example, she drinks coffee and she has like her box where their coffee is, hide that note inside of a coffee and draw a freaking flower or something like that. From a guy, from a very masculine guy to receive that, that'll be treated like this. Is like he expressed crazy emotions just now. Just insane. Denise: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Denis: So so that's one example. But another one is. When you're going on a date, say free up four hours, or I'm picking you up, let's say at four even if you are in a relationship, you can still I'm picking you up at five, dress such and such, and you do it like two, three days before. And that anticipation Denise: Yeah. Denis: in those two, three days, she's gonna go crazy. She's gonna be asking you so many times, like, where exactly are we going? What is gonna there? She tried to like every which way to figure out what it was. But the reality is that anticipation creates desire in her. Denise: Mm. Denis: Because there's a difference between so men desire, they see the desire, they go for it, right? Very simple. Women Denise: Yeah. Denis: create desire in their head because that's them. Trying to fantasize about what is possible. So when Denise: Yeah. Denis: men and women they go on a date, after the date, the man is just like, she's great, everything. The woman starts to fall in love after the date. When she goes over the things that happen, over the feelings Denise: Right. Denis: that she had and everything, and she starts to create that. So working with that imagination of a woman. Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: That's where the magic happens. That's how you create those spikes, is you need to give her the ability. So not ever like creates a mystery, create an adventure. And whenever you're taking her, you know where you're taking her. Even if something goes wrong, for you, you are taking lead, you're taking care of it. It's part of the plan. You're shifting, you're weaving, and things like that. For her, she loves to be, you know, so. Just as a side note, so men watch porn. This is like we're very visual, we are interested, that that's our porn. Women's Denise: Yeah. Denis: porn is audio books. Denise: Yeah. Yeah. Denis: So they listen because they wanna imagine. They wanna leave, create that world. And when Denise: Right. Denis: the analysis was done on, you know, what women actually listen to in terms of the, you know, the audio porn and everything, the way it's done is that she wants to connect with the main character. And she wants to be so he's evil and he is like conquering the world for everybody else, but he's nice only to her. So he's a very, very strong masculine figure that is a leader and everything, but he's nice only to her. And that was the biggest the biggest fantasy. So like, you know, that when they when they go like it's a surgeon, it's a vampire, it's a werewolf, and I can't remember what the fourth one, but is but but like all of them are very you'd think evil, but very strong, very Denise: Yeah. Denis: masculine, very leadership roles. They know their profession, they know what they're doing. But at the same time, she wants to be connected to him. And that's exactly the same. You're creating yourself as this figure that she wants to be connected to. She is the heroine to connected to a hero in that story. Denise: Right. Denis: And you're taking her on that adventure. You're going to slay the dragons and stuff like that. She's gonna be by your side. She's not necessarily gonna be fighting them, but she's gonna be by your side while you're doing that. And that's essentially how you create desire. there is like a lot of little tricks and tips and everything. And you do those emotional spikes. So, for example, you take her on that, or you say, you go, this is i a little more advanced, but nonetheless, you go to her work, you arrange that she has, you talk to her boss and everything, you arrange that she has a vacation for four days or five days or seven days. Denise: Cash. Denis: And you just take her on a trip without telling her. You just say you you even pack her suitcase, you talk to her friend, ask her friend, a girlfriend that knows what she wears, what she likes and things like that. You pack that in and you pick her up in the work clothes and everything, and you take off to, I don't know, Mexico or whatever. Easy. She'll remember that for the longest time. Denise: Yeah. Yes. Denis: So yeah. Denise: my gosh, this advice would save so many relationships. We need to get you to talk to every man ever. Denis: Yeah. Denise: But it's true because I know on my end too, there was this there's a disconnect, and also to your like I never want to fault where I I fell short too in my marriage. But one of the things that happens is there's almost like this force, like, well, you don't show me affection, and you need to show me affection. And then what does that do? It just doesn't you're like okay, you're right, I'm gonna show you more affection now. It it create it creates this like resistance and it just continues to increase, and that's especially difficult in long term relationships, and I haven't experienced that yet, but I because I haven't been In a long-term relationship since, but it's interesting to see how you can keep that alive because that's there's always a hurdle to overcome, right? Right now we're we're in this phase, or at least I am, where I'm trying to find somebody that's or not trying to find, I'm I should say waiting to attract somebody that has those qualities that I don't have to teach because I'm not in teacher mode. I nurture, yes, but not gonna teach somebody to have basic level of emotional intelligence. That's not where I think I am in my life. And so I guess my second question for you now and maybe we can end with this question because it's gonna kinda circle with everything, but the different phases of life With men right now, what I'm seeing is that they have the desire for intimacy, but as soon as a woman creates has any sort of difficulty, you know, they have emotions. We come with a fair share of emotions. We as women are very emotional beings. As soon as they have that, they kind of lose that interest in a woman. And I'm not just talking about myself. I see this with observations with other men, and then they they go on to the next. Do you see that? Where do you think that stems from? Because I think that there's something there. I just haven't quite been able to pinpoint why that happens and why it's so common. Denis: because we are in a in a society where we consume everything fast and like before for us certain friction or certain hardships in the moment, we were okay with it. Just like I grew up in the nineties, right? So for me it's just like, yeah, you don't have something, like you walk to it. you you you're like you bike right to there's something like I I don't know. you don't have TV or whatever, you don't have entertainment, we didn't have phones, we didn't have any of that stuff. So we're just like, okay, Denise: Yeah. Denis: let's take a stick and you know come up with something with having that stick. and right now we lack that. Right now, like we're bored on the phone, we get on the phone, we get on TikTok, and we just can swipe endlessly. We the same with like women if there's options you can swipe endlessly with with dating, you know, left, right, whatever. The problem is it's it's a lie. Like that that is a lie. You cannot build anything long term with that. And and this is s so I'm gonna tell you something that I think everybody, men and women, are very mistaken about one thing. They think that that initial sex, like first, first intimacy or first couple days, dates, they are the epitome of what can be achieved in the relationship in terms of feelings, in terms of novelty, in terms of everything. They have a no Freaking idea how amazing it can be in a long term relationship. That compared to what can be in a long term relationship is not even one tenth of the emotions you can experience. Not even. That novelty, that initial novelty, compare that to the trust a woman can have in the intimacy, like in the bedroom with you, when you are. She's on her like fifth or tenth orgasm with you, and you continue to stimulate, you continue to look it in her into her eyes, you continue to switch between different types of orgasms and everything, and you continue to give her push. That is like this is just I not even one tenth, it's uncomparable, it's so different, and Denise: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Denis: they're missing all of that that you can build. And this is I'm talking just in the just in the bedroom, outside of the bedroom. Denise: Yeah. Denis: The support, the like you're having both a friend and a partner and a woman that thinks differently, that feels differently inside, that perceives the world differently, and you have Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: that as your support, and and you're missing all of that whenever you're switching constantly back and forth between, you know, different partners and things like that. So Denise: Yeah. Denis: that fast consumption focused only on hedonic side of it. Denise: Yeah. Denis: I think this is so misled. Denise: Right. And I think that there is generally speaking at like at their core there's a sense of un lack of fulfillment in both women and and men when you do this. And so I think that th that's why this work is so important because the more that you connect with yourself and the more you connect with what really keeps that desire alive, then you can build something that's really meaningful. Because we all arguably most of us want a meaningful connection with somebody, right? We don't want a bunch of surface level. Sure, it's fun, but you also reach a certain point of maturity where it's not fun anymore. It's it's unfulfilling. Maybe most of us do anyway. So I think Denis: Yeah. Denise: Yeah. Denis: Yeah. so you you kind of brought me to another thought is that We tend to perceive the world when we are young, especially, a little more simplistically. we tend to think in terms of either or. So black and white. We either have this or we don't have this. we don't really subscribe to the notion that we can actually have things simultaneously and there's also shades of gray instead of just black and white. Once you get past that point and I think like to each is different when it happens, because to some people it never happens, so they kind of stay in that teenage perception of the world. But what I'm kinda leaning towards is whenever men are being have been told that go work first and then have relationships. Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: I think it's y you don't you shouldn't do that. I think you can combine the two, but as long as in your work you're actually growing, learning constantly. Same as in your your relationship, you're constantly growing, learning, and you're trying to push forward further and further. And you're educating yourself. Because as I mentioned before, woman is the best litmus test, right? So if you are f figure out and learn how to be successful with a woman, how to pass her tests in a healthy, positive way. how to maintain boundaries with a woman, how to maintain desire, and which is by the way, boundaries is one of the key one of the cornerstones of maintaining desire. Because if you have no boundaries, she has zero respect for you. If you are a pushover, you cannot say no to a woman and actually hold up to the emotions that it brings. Well, you got nothing. Like really, in Denise: Yeah. Denis: in just in general in life, everybody can bend you, you know, in every which Denise: Mm. Denis: way. So I think that's another piece piece of advice that's I give to younger men all the time is Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: Do not ever neglect your career and things like that, but learn how to maintain relationships first. Because relationships are more important than any career that you will ever have. We are humans, that's how we're built. Denise: Yeah. Yeah. Denis: And and as a as you mentioned in the very, very beginning, nobody really teaches about it, right? Nobody really goes like schools don't. Parents we don't really talk with parents about this. Like I talk to my kids all the time about this, but because I'm doing this. Denise: Yeah. Denis: So like I have a I have a daughter who's ten and we're constantly coined about relationships and how to maintain them and how to properly both like what is the male proper way of maintaining, what is the female proper way of maintaining, what's the dynamic, how to make sure that you don't lose yourself, how to like all of those things we're talking, and she's ten. She's interested by the way. She I I'm not bringing up. She's constantly bringing up because we're comfortable talking about this. But most of the Denise: Hm. Denis: parents, like I don't remember talking to mine, all of my friends, all of the clients that I had, they're all nobody talked with their fathers about how to they don't even know of the concept of the desire. Like I go as far as that. They're just like, Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: well, it just helping. It's like and and some of them Denise: Yeah. Denis: are very masculine men that can maintain the relationship, but they don't share that. Denise: Yeah. A as a final thought to this too, I one last piece I'd really love to get your take on to. So there's desire within a relationship, right? But I think it would be small minded to think that desire won't ever exist outside, like or attraction. So how do what is your take on a way a healthy masculine man manages that? Because I mean it it ig it exists, right? There's no I I don't think that there's any d denying that there's going to be attraction on some level towards somebody. And maybe you ag disagree, but either way I would love to get your insight on that. Denis: yeah, there's definitely gonna be some attraction. I think so it comes so there is a kind of positive self reinforcing loop, I guess, that is happening. If you're maintaining your masculinity and you're at at the top of it, you are your woman is feeling very feminine with you. So she can open up. Femininity is extremely attractive to men. Extremely. And we get hooked on it like a drug. So if your woman is maintaining maintaining those things, you will be like a drug addict, addicted to her. Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: So the fact that every man there will be like Visibly attractive? Sure. Can I get the same level of connection? Can I get the Denise: Mm. Denis: same level of openness? The same level of everything? No, I can't. Denise: Yeah. Denis: And that's when they go and choose. Yet at the same time, one of the key traits of maintaining desire, and this will may sound controversial, but it's for men to be attractive to other women as well. Like he needs to be at the top of his game so much that he's attractive to other women as well. If he's attractive only to his woman, that is great. But that's gonna be like, okay, you know, he's fine. But if he's attractive to other women but he chooses his woman all the time, that's extremely attractive. Because for the woman it's Denise: Yeah. Denis: just like everybody else desire it. That means the the the value of what I have is so much more. Because everybody else they validate that. Denise: Yeah. Denis: And we're social beings, and especially for women because of how the society was developed very early on, like way, way, way back when we have those in our subconscious that Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: if other women are approving, there must be something about it, about this particular Denise: Right. Denis: man. And so that needs to happen. But for a man to be like if he entertains that, that's a completely different story. Denise: Yeah. Denis: Because it shouldn't be entertaining. It's just like they express desire, but he's just like, I'm just looking at you. That's it. I'm Denise: Right. Denis: not looking at anybody I don't even see anybody else. And and this is like, as I said, like self-reinforcing loop is that the more femininity sh the more masculinity, let's start with a guy, the more masculinity he shows, the the healthy one, where he maintains himself, when he maintains the dynamic, the behavioral aspects and everything. The more feminine she is, the more addicted he is, the more he does for her. In terms of that, Denise: Yeah. Denis: and the more she is feminine, and it's just like it goes far. I've seen coup couples that are polygamous, the woman stops desiring other men entirely, even if she's Denise: Interesting. Denis: openly polygamous entirely. If her man starts to exude, like starts to work on this, the more he is, the Denise: Yeah. Denis: less desire she has anybody anywhere else. Denise: Yeah. Denis: It it's it's crazy because this this is like we're talking about how our deeper like subconscious works Denise: Mm-hmm. Denis: and apparently it doesn't like want anybody else because Denise: Right. Denis: so let me just like shift to and and say one more thing that when we're talking about relationships, women are trying to find two things, two men in one. And that man is usually a unicorn. Not a lot of men learn how to do this. One is the provider. They want to feel safe, they want to feel secure, they want all of that stuff. But they want to feel that with a man that they actually want. And that's where desire comes in. And so the Denise: Yeah. Yeah. Denis: like if as a man you can maintain desire and have the second part, you're a unicorn. There's not a Denise: Mm. Denis: lot of men like that. Because usually they do either this, the desire, that's gonna be a playboy. So he's gonna be like sleeping around, he doesn't care, you know. But he maintains desire just freaking fine. But he has no interest and no desire to do the second part. Or there is a lot of men, which is the majority, they do the second part really well. They maintain everything. But the desire that wanes. They get tired, Denise: Yeah. Denis: they get lazy, they get whatever, they're just like, just accept me as is, like all of those things. And yeah, you lose the edge. You lose all of that. So Denise: Yeah. Denis: Combining the two, that's the key. Denise: Yeah. Well that's why we need more of what you do in this world. I'm Denis: Yeah. Denise: confident it'll continue to spread, but it really is amazing work and I'm I'm really excited that I That more men are learning this, I think. It's a small I mean it takes it's a small scale, but the ones that are trying, it's it's good that they have somebody like you with the guidance because I think that we know on a conscious level that something's not working, but we don't always know what that is. And it takes somebody that has walked the walk to help lead us there. So thank you for what you do. I am going to link Dennis's information in the show notes and I really am so grateful that you took the time to be here. So thank you so so much for shedding some light on this Denis: Yeah. Denise: topic. Denis: Yeah, thank you Denise for having me and it was it was a pleasure talking about this subject. Because I am passionate about this and the more people I can reach, the more I can share and the more people I can help, the better it is for all of us. So Denise: Yeah, I'm confident it's gonna keep going. It's gonna keep growing. You're gonna keep reaching people's Yeah. All Denis: Mm-hmm. Denise: right. Thank you all so much for listening and I will see you all next week.