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How To Actually Become a CMO in B2B Marketing · The Crowded Market

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Lauren is the TMO of U Life, an insurance company that is doing things that the B2B marketing world has never seen before.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I've gotten to where I am by taking a very unconventional path, I would say.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think I never took the roles that clear to explain on paper.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it was always about like how do I push, like how do I push the role forward in a way that probably wasn't expected.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Lauren talks about what it takes to get to CMO level and exactly how you can use emotion-led marketing in order to get the best results for the business you work for.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like one of the hardest things to sell is advertising.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gritty, you don't have big budgets, and what does that mean?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're resourceful.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so he kind of saw that in my personality.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say at that moment took a chance on me.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is a serial entrepreneur.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I come from a traditional media background.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: That opportunity to sort of pivot and get into a new industry where someone takes a chance on you.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So to circle that back, you know, six years ago, I really took a chance on you life.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: You can watch this episode on YouTube and listen on all major podcast platforms.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get into the show.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for coming down to Bristol today, across to Bristol IFESC.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: From the big smoke.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Somewhere I spend a lot of time, actually.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: But um it's been nice to drag somebody to me for a change, actually, and drag everyone to me.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite nice when you run your own thing.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: You can kind of people will come to you and it's a it makes it uh a little bit of a change for me.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I am heading into London straight after this.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a pleasure.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Lo and behold, you know, I uh it happens.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I enjoyed the walk from the train station, I have to say.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever I Google map, I look for the route that's gonna be the most scenic.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Nice, good idea.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, very, very good idea.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you got to see Bristol in a good light.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, saw a bit of the water.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which I like.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um listen, this is another beautiful scenario where we've literally met on LinkedIn, we've exchanged a few messages, we've had a couple of uh you know virtual calls, and now here we are in person.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: And this is this is one of those moments where I feel um grateful for the internet, you know, as much as it is to our, you know, that people like to put down on it, and you know, it's the reason that a lot of us have jobs and it does provide a lot of value, hence, you know, nice kind of like relationships and friendships coming out of it and things like that.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: So um it's good.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now I approach you because you work for a company that I think are very, very cool.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um as you know, this is a B2B conversation, a B2B podcast.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: We're supposed to be here for B2B marketers, and the whole point is almost to kind of like talk about breaking the mold in marketing and stigma around it in B2B.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh U Life, which is the company that you work for, um, is incredible at that and fun at that, and a lot of that's down to you.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: And today I want to sit down and just talk a little bit about that uh and what you're doing and what's working and things like that.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe give me a little bit of a rundown.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to me about your career.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: What how have you got to where you are, first of all?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Take me from the start.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Marketing.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've gotten to where I am by taking a very unconventional path, I would say.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I never took the roles that were clear to explain on paper.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it was always about like how do I push, like, how do I push the role forward in a way that probably wasn't expected.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: We talk a lot in new life about surprise and delight, and I'll share a little bit what that means.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: But um I like unconventionality.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I also really I for some reason I've had this trend of like working for underdogs.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, and even though I moved here, I moved here from New York to work for the Wall Street Journal, and I wasn't working for them in the States.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what drew me to that, even that opportunity, was to work for the underdog because the journal was the underdog outside of the US.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very true.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I've taken this sort of entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial angle my entire career, and that's been like very evolutionary to the roles that I pursued in university.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think when we did our um pre-call, I was telling you like one of my first jobs was selling ads, advertising door to door.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I've just always like thrived on the thrill of the unknown.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: The same way that you know, walking here, I was like, I was thriving on the fact that I hadn't seen the path that I had taken.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of it is carving your own destiny, but also being very commercial in that process.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gotten me, interestingly, as I've kind of evolved, and even in New York, I was working for like private equity backed companies and media.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: I chose this entrepreneurial route.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of that came from the influence of my parents, too, are both business owners.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: But that idea of like building something, building something great, and that's what we're doing at Ulife was, you know, really drawn to me.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: But for marketing, um, I don't know, I don't think about it as like B2B versus B2C, but it's it's a bit of like an ethos of I think the best marketers are also great salespeople, but love the one to many.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, love that evangelizing, love that growth, love that, love that act of building that, you know, kind of transcends beyond just the deal.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's the it's a classic the beauty of the unknown.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: The unknown scares a lot of people.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and as marketers, it can scare them.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a beauty in that unknown too.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a there's a selfishly, there's a area for you to carve something out for yourself.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, having that entrepreneurial spirit within a business and knowing that that is something that you can turn into your own.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: And almost building your own case study out of that business, isn't it?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is where they were, and this is where we've taken them to, and this is now how people see them as a business.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's ultimately what your job is as a marketer.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Is how people see the business, you know, that you work for.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you eventually got to Ulife.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been there now?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Just over six years.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean Wow in um yeah, startup scale up, not wow in like traditional, I guess.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: So from where you started, where the business was and how it was perceived to where it is now, what is that?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: That must be such a difference in six years, right?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: If you like the way this podcast looks, then we can do this for you.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: LRB are a B2B podcast production agency that drive leads and sales for your business using the podcasting strategy.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Link in the description.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think you talk about like chances you take in your career, and there's been times when people have taken a chance on me, and then there's times when I've taken a chance on the business.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the the previous when I when I pivoted, so one of the hard things, and I'm sure like uh many people listening have experienced this about you know, you grow your career and then you're like, I want to do something different.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I apply my skills and my strengths to the best way to then pursue like another industry that I'm passionate about that will give me a new opportunity?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been in media for gosh, I mean, like over a decade.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it was at a time when like when I started magazines, newspapers were really hot, they were growing rapidly.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Good times.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Good times.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I still do re read the newspaper every Sunday.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you know, obviously times changed and then other industries grew.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, are you then in a position, not in a position of strength?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because are you not perceived as like relevant anymore?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it was how do I kind of package up my experience into a way that that could work for like any industry?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, like right before Ulife, I joined a business called LifeWorks, which is now part of a bigger health business called Telushealth.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the CEO there, Jamie True, he what I talk a lot about is he took a chance on me.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So he saw in my background that you know one of the hardest things to market, and many of you, I mean, you'll know this from uh from your experience, is advertising.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like one of the hardest things to sell is advertising and it's gritty, you don't have big budgets, and what does that mean?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're resourceful.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so he kind of saw that in my personality.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say at that moment took a chance on me.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is a serial entrepreneur.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'd come from a traditional media background.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, there was a digital, I mean, I grew a lot of the digital growth at the journal as well.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: But that opportunity to sort of pivot and get into a new industry where someone takes a chance on you.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So to circle that back, you know, six years ago, I really took a chance on you life.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I went in, I walked into, I reached out to one of the co-founders.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'd heard about the business, and I just really connected to the mission.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, these guys have something.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really small.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's about 30 people, and a big idea, insurance that inspires life.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, you go into the office, it's, you know, half of my interview was in what we call a treehouse.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if you ever come to our office in Old Street in the back of the, in the back of our headquarters, we have like a, we call it the treehouse.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's now a bit of a podcast studio hybrid, but very unconventional.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I was like just drawing that feeling when you walk into an office and and then you meet the founders and you not only like believe in the mission, and you need to know that there's a market for what you're gonna be selling, of which there is a massive total addressable market.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of it is like that kind of initial connection to what the business is all about, too.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: For people who don't know, then briefly explain what ULife do.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we effectively, for simplest terms, we're an employee benefit.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we sell ULife as an all-in-one wellness and insurance benefit.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if a business needs life insurance, health insurance, we then attach that to a very engaging app that rewards healthy behavior through game mechanics.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're familiar with like a Duolingo, we use those sort of game mechanics and that methodology to then get people healthy and active, which individuals love and enjoy because they're getting rewarded for you know anything that they can convert for like Amazon vouchers, Nike, et cetera.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So things they value, but then ultimately it drives that healthy behavior that de-risks the population.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's what this is one of those really rare occurrences of a business who do direct B2B marketing that is also just like could be B2C.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I taught, I mean, it's the ultimate flywheel.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's the ultimate flywheel.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like we um I've been doing a bit with Trustpilot recently, and recently had the privilege of meeting the CEO Adrian, and we were talking about the story of just because I don't think a lot of B2B brands put effort into that bottom-up.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, because we were entering a market that was very big, very price-driven, so much of the uniqueness is the actual fact that we are helping change people's lives.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you know that authentically is you need to use platforms to help demonstrate that.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we've relied a lot on that social proof that we get through those like everyday stories.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: People telling us, you know, I'm walking more or I lost this weight or I'm more engaged.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's any sort of like life, life story as a result of just being a little bit healthier.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of channels are you seeing success on for this kind of these marketing efforts then?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: And what kind of stuff are you doing on them?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because uh I mean, I know, but a lot of other people might not in terms of content output or marketing effort.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of campaigns are you and where are you running them?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I talk a lot about I mean multi-channel and multi-threading kind of go hand in hand.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So because we can afford, I mean, we're we're much smaller than a lot of the big, big Bohemut businesses who are running their channels in separate departments.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I look at it as, you know, how do you how do you drive that all like always on influence?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I can talk a little about that, but how do you also get the high intent?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there's natural channels you have to lean into, like paid search.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when someone's searching life insurance, like I want to capture that, when someone's looking for benefits, I want to capture that.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: But really, it's how do you give like value to your buyer before they even are thinking about buying your product?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're also an unconventional product.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: You have to think like we aren't, you know, people don't go to sleep at night and w and and and and dream about like I want an employee benefit that gamifies healthy behavior and it's tied to my insurance.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a it's a new, it's it's not a totally new category, like the budget is there, but it's a new approach to how you service and deliver value within your employee benefits.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the, a lot of the multi-threading and the multi-touch points is about, you know, whether that's events that we run, whether that's leveraging our all of our social proof.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just launched, we were talking about when we had a call, like I just launched a newsletter on LinkedIn, which is just about sharing perspectives of our customers.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: These are so there's a lot of free things that you can do that's complemented by paid activity as people are going down the funnel and as you're targeting more precisely.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I also talk a lot about like not boiling the ocean.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you don't need everyone to be your friend.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: So know who your buyer is, know who you want to target, and then like go, yeah, go for that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's for you, is it is it HR or is it yeah, it is HR, isn't it?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Really, that you're kind of trying to build that.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And do you do you kind of build a community around those people in that sense?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: In it as a marketing effort, it's that HR people know you.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, obviously as a as an employee benefit, but just it's a funny one because it's like there's this sort of obsession that happens on the employee level where I am out.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: This happens to me all the time, and people are like, we we make this weird connection that this individual has you life as a benefit, and they like go absolutely bonk.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm a celebrity.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they go absolutely bonk because they're like, oh my god, I love that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love it so much.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like proper affinity.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're not the buyer, but they're influencing the impact of the program, right?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then on an HR level, because we have we build we build quite a robust HR community.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: We get them all together once a year.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of champions within this community who, you know, and you don't have to be talking to them all the time.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're in the background, kind of, because you're cooking and you're delivering all this value on the product level.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the minute I reach out to them on Unplugged, like the CEO of Distology, which is an agency who who uses Ulife 50 people, we've driven a lot of value to them.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: When I reach out to the CEO, I get a response within half an hour.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's quite amazing.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when you are giving more than you take and when you're driving value, when you then ask for something in return, it's not as big of an ask.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: With every marketing effort, you know, when we are run when we run podcasts, so we run 20 odd podcasts all across different industries.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: And the main thing that I'm banging on the drum about is just be part of the community that you're selling to.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Stop pushing and pushing and pushing your product and your service all the time and just be part of that community.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Understand them, be with them, talk to them, and understand their role.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: For me, marketers, I love talking to marketers and other marketers.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in marketing, we work with marketers all the time.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: I need to understand what the struggles are in the industry, what you know, how LinkedIn, how content works for them, and things like that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's where I find the value.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not with an agenda.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's not with me going, one day I'll work with them and they'll buy my product.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's me just being integrated because it's about who they know and how they pass that on.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: They're not the necessarily the buyer, like you said, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: They pass that on because you're ingrained in their community and you understand them and you show that you hold the events like you say you do, you you and you're a known name in it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then when anybody ever thinks about needing that thing, that's the thing with B2B sales cycles, isn't it?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: Long sometimes, very long.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just click and buy.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Very long, yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, especially in insurance.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to be hitting those touch points every time.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: So when they do come to, they have to come to their own conclusion that they want it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: You're not going to just convince them on a LinkedIn ad.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: People aren't scrolling through LinkedIn clicking to buy like they are on TikTok.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an interesting one because I talk like it's not, it doesn't have to just be your buyer.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I get more intel from our investor communities, from other founders, from like I had, I mean, at the there are there are all these, it's so interesting in the world of HR, and this goes without like goes to say with any function.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's all these like sub-tribes, because you have to think, okay, where are your customers hanging out?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And granted, you can kind of transactionally target them on digital platforms, but what's really interesting is that there are these like subgroups and sub-communities because people are looking for that connection with peers.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I'm tapping more and more into those sub-communities that have like a thousand curated HR like change makers who are really focused on scaling up businesses.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is great.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think gone are the days of these sort of like generic pools of people.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, how do you find where they hang out, create that value to those targeted audiences, and have it real like multi-threaded through different ways.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: Where are you seeing value in content?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: You do a lot of content output, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: You're an active company on LinkedIn.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean a lot of video.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of a lot of storytelling.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: Is that and and kind of what what about when it comes to championing the people in the business?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do that a lot?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we so we are, I mean, we do a lot of video, a lot of more raw video.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've we've completely changed our case study formats.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting because I think where you probably used to traditionally what produ you you would have seen this produce three four-minute videos.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're now doing much more snackable pieces.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Where then I'm also thinking, okay, if if we're delivering a benefit into a company that's driving that company value, why do I just stop with the video?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually a disservice to the story.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, how do you magnify little bits, little stories within it?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: But then also like recently I had a customer um write an article on their site about how Ulife is helping elevate their employee val employee value proposition.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of, I'm always thinking about like how do you kind of multiply one moment into many, many more opportunities?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because oftentimes you're like there there can be a tendency to think more transactionally about those stories.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then they basically are one-hit wonders.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: They go out, get forgotten about.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: So UGC's powerful, like user-generated stuff, and you're talking about stripping it back.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, although I run a video agency, it's it's slightly controversial for me to say that I'm a big believer in it and it should exist and that that that businesses should be picking up their iPhones, you know, or and making those quick videos with their little handheld mics.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I I do part of me also fears for it because LinkedIn is a professional, it's meant to be a professional place, right?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: For for people to highlight careers.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I do get nervous that it's going down this short form y TikToky.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think totally.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So so when I say snackable, I don't mean I don't mean TikTok.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean uh don't just use don't just think that one format is the way to go.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Agreed.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's if you want to get real interviews, like do it in a beautiful space like this, uh take it seriously, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: But uh create it in a way that resonates with an audience uh and that doesn't lose their attention.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of it as well is about legitimacy.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: And when you make yeah, when you make higher end content, it does seal it creates a subconscious seal of approval in somebody's mind that you are legitimate, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: But then also the real stuff and the slightly more kind of rough and ready, like behind the scenes these things that people film with iPhones for the businesses are also element that human action.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you kind of you need both.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: You totally need both.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: The strategy works in both ways.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: So like something that you do is your present series, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Which is huge, which is something that I've not really spoken about on this podcast before because B2B normally, you know, people run webinars and things like that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: This is very different because you lean into some quite big names, don't you, to bring onto this show and have quite short conversations.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you tell me a little bit about that?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, this is a series.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, when did we start it?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Probably three years ago.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was, you know, recognizing, well, one, um, our customers aren't all in London, so you need a virtual way to give them value.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: People are sick of just talking heads up and slide presentations.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they have a time and place for like product releases and educational moments.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I totally get that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: But what was very clear to me, like early days, we brought on Rungan Chatterjee as a chief our chief well-being officer, so a real ambassador for Ulife.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And just working with him and understanding, okay, um, and granted, like his whole entire ethos is about microhabits and helping drive sustain behavior change through like little, little everyday nudges.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: So very aligned to Ulife.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, we did quite a, we did a few events with him, and I'm like, look, you know, we are very our our USP of like really the these sort of this like personal experience and that everyone has their own journey with ULife.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Need that is an opportunity to really like give our give our buyers more value by going a bit under the hood of these individuals because you want to drive leads anyway, but you want to be able to give something that's new, that's also not something you could go and search on YouTube, that is something that deeply resonates with your brand ethos and values.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So curated um ran, we've we've been running quarterly a U Life Presents series, which is around curating interesting, I would say like popular people, you know, but who have a bit of edge.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're all about like bringing color and unexpected joy into people's lives.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So even when we had Claudia Winkleman, it was about like I mean, it was so raw to her life.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it was take you bit, these are normal, these are individuals who are like totally normal people.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Human beings.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's just you know, going a bit raw and really talking about like what makes them thick, yeah.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like what makes them well for themselves, like what matters to them, what are their values?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of you know, we talk about our values at U Life or love being you.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if you underpin a series called U Life Presents, that is About why that person loves being themselves and what they what they kind of manifest to then be the best versions of themselves.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: That inspires, that's like a really nice top-of-the-funnel thing to do.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now what's been, I would say, instrumental in getting value from that is that there's a whole sales machine behind that and a whole nurture journey.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, you know, it's very programmatic.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we're bringing in VIP guests for the live filming at our offices.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like cool warehousey vibes like this.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: But this is better, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is actually much more.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit more chill.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um so and then we're yeah, so we have great vibes there, and then we also stream virtually.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a live stream, so we market it ahead of time and drive, you know, thousands of registrations, and then you nurture those.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the, you know, the number of deals influenced by the, you know, uh a touch point of one of these events is is instrumental.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what I mean?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's value-based content.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally value based on the basic value.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: You're just giving.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you're doing.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like we've managed to get these great people on who are gonna we're gonna get under the hood and have a look at who they are, and there's no agenda attached to it, um, apart from the association of you with it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then that is doing a lot because people respect it, and then they'll they'll they'll could they know a product when they know they want it, and that's the reality of it.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: That a lot of the time we're not gonna be able to convince B to be biased.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think like people do the more you force things, like the volume of um you probably get it too.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Emails I'm getting and LinkedIn sponsor messages I'm getting, the volume has probably like 20x'd.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: The golden age is gone.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and a lot of that's because content's easier to produce now, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's more generic.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm more skeptical.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So getting cut through is actually a lot harder.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you need a hook, you need relevance and you need value, and you know, you need to put effort into that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, you know, what we really work hard to do.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's um it doesn't go and like AI has driven things for us as a business because people have never craved human-created content more than they do now.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And when have you ever seen something that's AI created and gone, oh, it's cool that it can do that?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: You've never gone and been convinced and then bought something through AI generated content generated, uh written maybe, but yeah, content generation has never I just think you're not, you know, you can't you can't manufacture real stories.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: You can't.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it's driven our business because of that.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because people, you know, AI slop's a huge thing.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone's talking about that as a phrase.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that's because and then and then that goes back to people desiring the human-based content.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know what, and it just makes I just love how, you know, six years ago we really invested in um all these real reviews and really and put put effort behind making sure that we were capturing and encouraging our members, employees, to really share the impact that we were making to their lives.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what is now we are benefiting from that investment.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: You slop that on now, retrofit, you know, and you retrofit that, you won't get any results.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: No, not at all.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: So what what is LinkedIn working for you as a business really well?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say as a main Yeah, totally, but I would say like m multidimensional.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if you rely on, because I'm looking at it like how do I milk, is that the right say?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I get the most out of this platform?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the way that you get the most is getting your founders engaged in this platform all the time.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on it.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm authentically on it, telling stories and turn and and demonstrating my own values.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm naturally going to promote you life.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I also, you know, want to make sure that I have a personality.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's your platform too.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we promote, we just we just produced a benchmark report for like surveying all of our customers on what they care about.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: We promote that on LinkedIn.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: We put paid investment behind it.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's great for lead capture.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it can't just stop at a payment transaction to pump out, you know, ads to get some event attendees.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you gotta like, how do you make the platform work the best it can work for you?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that I love that we encourage is every time that someone brings you life on to their business, we get them to do a post on LinkedIn.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's all free marketing.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: We then is that like a requirement or is it No?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, you can't do it.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: That would be like, well, we do, we tie, I mean we we make it like sort of self-serve and we help.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: But what happens is that you get you get the the business posting about the celebration of bringing you life because it's good for them.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Then you get individuals at the companies who are sharing their stories.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: People sharing stories about the charities they they donated to.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: We had someone the other week sharing a personal account of the weather's nice.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited I can go earn my U coin by doing a walk in the farm.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's so you get individual stories, you get so I think LinkedIn um sorry, do you is it the requirement from for the business to create LinkedIn content, like the business page or the personal profiles within the business page?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: It can have the thing is, is like you can't force any of this.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So what we do, because like what's the win-win?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a win, if a business is investing in their people, which Ulife is demonstrating that that they are doing, it's in their best interest to share that they're that they're deploying this program.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's one of those unique so it makes them look great.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then if an individual is like, man, I really enjoy this, then it's in their bet they, you know, it feels natural to them.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's it's about you know giving that giving that product that people value that has a knock-on effect for a business B2B and also for the end user.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a B2B to C.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can use LinkedIn to amplify that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: We also then will like sponsor if if you know you have the ability when an HR person or a CEO or a founder celebrates ULife, like we can then sponsor those posts.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: So we do it quite tactically to basically like magnify the Yes those subtle things that don't take too much time, but then exposes you to a new audience.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: When after this, you're gonna be you'll get an email after this today, right?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Where I'm like, listen, I want a release strategy call because I want to make sure that you're talking about it as well as me, because this helps both of us, right?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: It gets more people to the episode, but also it it benefits you because you're highlighting your expertise, which is great on a personal building kind of level, but also for us, it exposes us to a new audience who are your who are your people and your community on LinkedIn, right?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's great.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it works both ways.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's an interesting one.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so much about like value exchange, right?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like uh you're giving me value, I'm giving you value back, then it's like we all got to be.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's just it's like an organic thing, it's just like an organic thing, the same way, and a human thing, the same way if a customer shares, then we give value back.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's all it's like a whole circular process.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: So kind of as we round off, yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: Your career has been multifaceted in terms of industry and from Wall Street Journal to here, and quite the change.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you've moved up through the ranks wonderfully and quickly, I would say.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: What are a few things that you could pass on to maybe a marketer now who is maybe at the early stages of their career, who is looking up to move to those higher levels of marketing, those more senior positions?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it really go goes back to curiosity.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ask the question.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Not enough people ask questions.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: It shocks me.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: I know like too scared.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean in this cheesy, like you're in a meeting, does anyone have any questions?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean like proactively showing you're inquisitive.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Don't stay in your lane.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't matter, just because you're a marketer doesn't mean you don't need to understand the PL.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the more just embrace curiosity, embrace the fact that it it actually actually doesn't show vulnerability.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: It shows that you actually want to learn and want to improve.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And senior people love that.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the same time, I think be prepared that this world is not the same ever.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Every day changes.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like it's especially now more than ever.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole um ability to adapt at speed, to adapt quickly to like what is needed and not feel like I talk about like I never felt like I rigidly need, I never wanted to follow a job description.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like them.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I actually just I actually am like opposed to job descriptions.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I know some people feel a lot of like peace with job descriptions.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important that you are respectful of the role that you are delivering and understand what you're accountable for, but also push it further and adapt so that you know, incur I just encourage all marketers just get out on the field, yeah, sell a deal.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like sit with operational people for a day.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And just really understand how the whole machine works because you'll be better for it in the end and you'll be more commercial for it in the end.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a great way to end it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: I a lot of marketers, I hope, listening have taken something away from this.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: I know I have.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you very much for coming on today.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for giving me the platform.