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In Conversation: Kait Fenwick · She's On The Money

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Speaker 1: Just before we head into today's episode, we'd like to
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Speaker 1: acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait
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Speaker 1: Islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the
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Speaker 1: waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you
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Speaker 1: for sharing and for caring for the land on which
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Speaker 1: we are able to learn. We pay respects to elders
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Speaker 1: past and present, and we share our friendship and our kindness.
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Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:45
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
0:48
Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back. We're celebrating
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Speaker 3: International Women's Week because International Women's Stages simply was not
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Speaker 3: enough for us here in this office.
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Speaker 1: And we've just made it up. We've just decided International
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Speaker 1: women is going to be a thing because International Women's
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Speaker 1: Day just doesn't encompass enough for us one hundred percent.
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Speaker 3: So we've been chatting to some incredible people this week
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Speaker 3: and today we have Kate Fenwick, who is a transgender
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Speaker 3: Diversity and Inclusions specialist and a public health student. Last year,
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Speaker 3: Kate was announced as one of out for Australia's thirty
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Speaker 3: under thirty spotlighting young LGBTQIA plus people that make tremendous
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Speaker 3: contributions to bettering the lives of this community here in Australia.
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Speaker 3: We are so thrilled to be joined by them the
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Speaker 3: International Women's Week. Kate, Hello, how are you a team?
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Speaker 4: How are we doing today?
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Speaker 1: I am so excited to have wrangled you into a podcast.
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Speaker 1: This is going to be a banger, my friend.
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Speaker 4: Happy to be here, Happy to be here, Kate.
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Speaker 1: Before we get on with the very first question, I
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Speaker 1: know your pronouns. I've been using them for a farewell now,
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Speaker 1: but for everybody listening along that might not have met
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Speaker 1: you before, what are your pronouns and how do we
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Speaker 1: use them appropriately?
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Speaker 4: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: For sure.
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Speaker 4: So my preferred pronouns and preferred is such a bad
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Speaker 4: habit to get into, because it's just your personal pronoun right,
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Speaker 4: They're not preferred, their mandatory They them or he him.
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Speaker 4: You can use them interchangeably. The reason why they're both
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Speaker 4: there is because you can use them as you see fit.
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Speaker 4: I just don't don't subscribe to the she's and the hertz.
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Speaker 4: So that's why there's there's many options for folk whatever
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Speaker 4: they like.
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Speaker 1: Kate. One of the caveats of winning THEFA thirty under
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Speaker 1: thirty is that a person is quote living with authenticity,
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Speaker 1: courage and resilience, demonstrating the qualities of a role model. Honestly,
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Speaker 1: what an incredible thing to be recognized for at any age,
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Speaker 1: let alone under the age of thirty. Kate, tell us
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Speaker 1: what was your path to getting there?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, so thirty on to thirty was a big piece.
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Speaker 4: Took off a lot of time last year in terms
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Speaker 4: of different events and preparing proposals, and my incredible mentor
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Speaker 4: GEM actually nominated me for that award, which was really
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Speaker 4: a special moment, and I think it was a calm Nasi.
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Speaker 4: I wear a lot of hats, I guess, in terms
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Speaker 4: of being a student in the work that I do,
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Speaker 4: in terms of like community advocacy type staff and pieces
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Speaker 4: in across the creative industries. So trying to pick, I
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Speaker 4: guess the category that felt most authentic was challenging, But
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Speaker 4: I think we went with student in the end because
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Speaker 4: studying public health feedbacks off a lot of the equity
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Speaker 4: and inclusion stuff that I do at work, and I
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Speaker 4: think that in order for folk to show up as
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Speaker 4: their authentic selves and have a really incredible life. The
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Speaker 4: access and equitable experiences in terms of healthcare for trans,
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Speaker 4: intersex and gender diverse folk is integral to that. So yeah,
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Speaker 4: it was an honor to be part of it. There
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Speaker 4: was so many incredible folk that got the opportunity to
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Speaker 4: share their stories and the way that OUT for Australia
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Speaker 4: curates the award that recipients like the goodie bags that
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Speaker 4: we received, like all of the businesses that they purchased
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Speaker 4: the gifts from, you know, really invested in championing lgbt
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Speaker 4: QUI A plus inclusion and you know, it was just
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Speaker 4: incredible to be able to try, you know, use some
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Speaker 4: of those products and businesses that are really centering our experiences.
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Speaker 1: How cool. So for those of us who haven't heard
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Speaker 1: of out for Australia before, who are they? What do
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Speaker 1: they do?
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Speaker 4: So out for Australia has many different arms to what
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Speaker 4: they do. The thirty under thirty awards annually is you
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Speaker 4: know a big one, but they also have like a
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Speaker 4: mentoring section so that folk from you know, intergenerationally, like
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Speaker 4: across the community can get involved and that can be
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Speaker 4: you know through study like mental support, or it might
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Speaker 4: be with career or you know social media creativity, like
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Speaker 4: you know, things that you do outside of work too,
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Speaker 4: and then they also have, you know, the opportunity for
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Speaker 4: Lgbtquia folk in business to lend their skills and do
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Speaker 4: some volunteering as well. And then they do events throughout
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Speaker 4: the year like on different equity inclusion issues for LGBTQI
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Speaker 4: plus folk. So really they're doing a lot.
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Speaker 1: They are very cool and I feel like I want
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Speaker 1: to use this space as well to promote them and
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Speaker 1: go go check them out. But Kate, something I love
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Speaker 1: about you is that you are wildly passionate about dismantling
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Speaker 1: exclusive organizational culture and you really center the lived experience
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Speaker 1: of underrepresented people within workplaces and within healthcare. I want
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Speaker 1: to know from your experiences, what are some of the
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Speaker 1: things that you've encountered as a change maker in the
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Speaker 1: business world, whether that be positive, negative or neutral.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: So, I suppose in Australia diversity, equity inclusion is probably
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Speaker 4: more of an emerging discipline than perhaps some of our
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Speaker 4: neighbors in the UK, Europe and the US. So I
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Speaker 4: think that Australia, as a cohort, we have a bit
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Speaker 4: of a collective mindset of everyone has a fair go
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Speaker 4: and we talk a lot about how our sort of
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Speaker 4: national identity is built on that idea of mate of
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Speaker 4: an inclusion, and I guess systemically we know that that's
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Speaker 4: not true based on the lived experiences of particularly our
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Speaker 4: First Nations communities of the lgbt QUI a plus community
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Speaker 4: of women and folk living with accessibility requirements or disability.
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Speaker 4: So I think spelling it out and sort of reframing
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Speaker 4: that that's seen across the business world in terms of
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Speaker 4: inclusion and really understanding that it's a systemic problem as
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Speaker 4: opposed to individual concerns has been really refreshing. And I
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Speaker 4: can see that, you know a lot of the organizations
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Speaker 4: that work without for Australia, you know, are really putting
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Speaker 4: that ownership back onto to the systems that you know
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Speaker 4: are the cause of these inequities as opposed to the
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Speaker 4: individuals themselves. And I think continuing that conversation is really important,
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Speaker 4: particularly as we head into you know, it's Martographs Seas
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Speaker 4: at the moment, you've just had Midsummer, you know, and
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Speaker 4: of course IWD all about those those systems that are
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Speaker 4: the problem, not the people.
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Speaker 3: I'm really interested to know because obviously there's two really
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Speaker 3: amazing aspects to you in your journey. You've got your
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Speaker 3: personal side, but you also obviously work in this space professionally,
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Speaker 3: and you've worked historically as a diversity and inclusion specialist
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Speaker 3: with a number of businesses. Can you tell us a
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Speaker 3: little bit about why it's important for businesses to be
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Speaker 3: considering this, why they should be bringing in specialists such
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Speaker 3: as yourself, and a little bit about maybe the strategies
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Speaker 3: or things that you often come across when you're working
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Speaker 3: with them. Yeah.
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Speaker 4: I think for contemporary businesses it's integral to have equity
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Speaker 4: and inclusion diversity specialists working with you. I mean, it's
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Speaker 4: an ASX listed requirement for folk to have policy and
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Speaker 4: procedure in place that relates to diversity and inclusion. And
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Speaker 4: I guess historically those policies in businesses have probably been
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Speaker 4: compiled by folk that might not necessarily have lived experience
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Speaker 4: or you know, the background or understanding of what themplication
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Speaker 4: of having those policies that don't speak to the communities
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Speaker 4: in which they're looking to serve hit the mark. So
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Speaker 4: I think it is really vital that there are specialist
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Speaker 4: people or even dedicated teams. And I guess allowing those
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Speaker 4: people and their teams to reach out and you know,
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Speaker 4: collaborate with other folk in their industry or whether that's
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Speaker 4: you know, lived experienced consultants. Because no matter how grand
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Speaker 4: you know your diversity inclusion team is, there's always going
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Speaker 4: to be intersections that aren't covered off, if you like,
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Speaker 4: So there's always going to be people that don't have
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Speaker 4: lived experience in one of the facets that you might
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Speaker 4: be looking to make some change in. And you know,
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Speaker 4: collaborating with community members for meaningful employment is one thing
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Speaker 4: from a sustainability perspective, but it also just means that
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Speaker 4: folk have the opportunity to, you know, look outside their
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Speaker 4: immediate teams and understand more from those the communities in
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Speaker 4: which they operate.
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Speaker 3: And that's so important, isn't it Just to having a
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Speaker 3: diverse group of people. I feel like you don't get
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Speaker 3: the range of ideas or perspectives. You can't really offer
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Speaker 3: a product or a service if it's not inclusive by
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Speaker 3: nature by your team.
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Speaker 4: Right, that's exactly right, And I think you know yourself.
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Speaker 4: Jess and Victoria and the Sheets on the Money crew
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Speaker 4: are very keen to understand more and more about particularly
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Speaker 4: what millennials are looking for in terms of you know,
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Speaker 4: employment and talent acquisition and retention within businesses. And I
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Speaker 4: think that Forbes and HBr and all the big sort
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Speaker 4: of organizations that create articles and write on this stuff.
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Speaker 4: You know, as a generation, it's that's why we're staying
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Speaker 4: with businesses or why we're leaving them if that equity
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Speaker 4: and inclusion piece isn't up to par, because people don't
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Speaker 4: want to offer products and services to individuals that might
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Speaker 4: I guess be excluded by nature of who they are
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Speaker 4: from you know, fully optimizing their experience with that service
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Speaker 4: or product offering.
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Speaker 1: Are you seeing pushback from organizations and I know that
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Speaker 1: you know, you work in this space a fair bit,
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Speaker 1: so you might, but are you seeing pushback from organizations
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Speaker 1: to really embrace this diversity and inclusion piece? Because I
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Speaker 1: just feel like from my perspective, and I know from
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Speaker 1: justice perspective, it's a no brainer to be making sure
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Speaker 1: that you are open and accessible and embracing diversity and
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Speaker 1: making sure that every single person in your team feels
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Speaker 1: respected and honored and comfortable and welcomed. But why would
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Speaker 1: people be I guess opposed to embracing the idea of
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Speaker 1: having a diversity and inclusion specialists come into their business.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that it's a big area of explanation, right.
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Speaker 4: And I think once you start, irrespective of the size
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Speaker 4: of your business or where you work or who you
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Speaker 4: work for, I think once you unravel one maybe opportunity
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Speaker 4: that you have when it comes to equity and inclusion,
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Speaker 4: it's a domino effect, right. And when we back to
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Speaker 4: those intersections of folks, age, gender, sexuality, lived experienced, you know, disability,
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Speaker 4: or whatever market you're looking at when it comes to
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Speaker 4: diversity and inclusion. Once you open that cane of word
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Speaker 4: and so to speak, it can take the capacity of
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Speaker 4: whole teams. Particularly when you're looking at operational guidance and
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Speaker 4: systems and reinventing different parts of the way that you
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Speaker 4: do business or your daily operations. It can be really
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Speaker 4: really challenging. You know, off the back of COVID nineteen
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Speaker 4: and the changes that businesses have had to make in
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Speaker 4: terms of their structure and way that they do things,
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Speaker 4: there can be capacity constraints. And I think that you know,
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Speaker 4: a good equity and inclusion specialist will recognize and work
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Speaker 4: with businesses to understand that where those capacity constraints lie
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Speaker 4: and how to best mend and move forward so that
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Speaker 4: those tasks can be completed in a way that feels
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Speaker 4: really authentic for communities.
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Speaker 1: I feel like it can be seen as being really
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Speaker 1: inauthentic when bigger companies start to embrace it, and you
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Speaker 1: just go, oh, my gosh, this feels really tokenistic or
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Speaker 1: it just feels like they're doing it for the brownie
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Speaker 1: points when that should not ever be the driver. How
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Speaker 1: can organizations and people embrace that without you know, having
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Speaker 1: that layer of tokenism put over the top of it.
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Speaker 1: I just feel like, especially for bigger organizations, and I
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Speaker 1: don't want to name names, but sometimes you see it
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Speaker 1: and you just go, are you serious? Like that's not
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Speaker 1: how it should have been approached, Like is this them
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Speaker 1: getting advice from people like you? Or is this then
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Speaker 1: maybe just diy ing it and doing what they think
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Speaker 1: the world wants to hear from them.
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Speaker 4: I have like a lot of mixed feelings when it
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Speaker 4: comes to the idea of the pink dollar around things
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Speaker 4: like IWD, Mardi Gras pick a diversity Data of significance
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Speaker 4: that sort of corporates or organizations of any kind spending
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Speaker 4: money on these kind of things, and I think, you know,
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Speaker 4: there's a lot of pushback from members of the LGBTQIA
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Speaker 4: plus community in relation to you know, corporate floats or
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Speaker 4: different bits and pieces for days of significance. And I
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Speaker 4: think that at the end of the day, like queen
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Speaker 4: people use bank, they use health services, they use all
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Speaker 4: of the different tools or mechanisms that a lot of
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Speaker 4: these big organizations provide communities. So if you know, I
13:10
Speaker 4: guess rolling down a straight on a float or having
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Speaker 4: an IWD type poster in their window or something of
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Speaker 4: that nature, is you know where they're looking to create
13:20
Speaker 4: stepping stones to engage communities. I think that that is
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Speaker 4: an inherently good thing too. I think sometimes there's a
13:29
Speaker 4: lot of hypercriticism on these different pieces. Everything should be
13:33
Speaker 4: approached with a really genuine place type activity. But if
13:38
Speaker 4: we keep relegating folk to ideas of cancel culture or
13:42
Speaker 4: folk being so afraid of saying or doing or implementing
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Speaker 4: the right thing, change won't occur. People won't put themselves
13:50
Speaker 4: out there and attempt to change things because at least
13:53
Speaker 4: by doing the first step, and perhaps if they are
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Speaker 4: wrong and it does come across as tokenistic, well, isn't
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Speaker 4: that feeback for next time? Where they could potentially employ
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Speaker 4: a consultant or have a look at how they could
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Speaker 4: do things better next time. But if they don't start
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Speaker 4: in the first place, you'd never know what the opportunities
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Speaker 4: could be.
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Speaker 1: I adore that take, and I adore it for a
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Speaker 1: couple of reasons, and the first is earlier this week,
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Speaker 1: we spoke to Jess Quinn, who is a very big
14:20
Speaker 1: advocate of the differently abled space, and she said pretty
14:24
Speaker 1: much exactly what you said. She's like, I don't care
14:27
Speaker 1: if I end up being the token model on a
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Speaker 1: wrong way and everybody else is a tall, thin model,
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Speaker 1: and then it's me in there for inclusion purposes, because
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Speaker 1: they could be one person in the audience that really
14:39
Speaker 1: feels heard and seen because of that. And I just
14:42
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes we have these conversations and people jump
14:45
Speaker 1: down each other's throats before going have we actually put
14:48
Speaker 1: ourselves in the position of these people that we can't
14:52
Speaker 1: ever put ourselves in the position of and ask them
14:55
Speaker 1: how do you feel about this? Because I think so
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Speaker 1: often and we see this, you know, in our face
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Speaker 1: book group, we see it online in a million different
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Speaker 1: places of people. I guess promoting that cancel culture of
15:06
Speaker 1: like you can't say that you can't do that. That
15:08
Speaker 1: was a token thing to say or do, whereas we
15:11
Speaker 1: should really be going, hey, kay, you're in this space,
15:14
Speaker 1: what do you think about that? And you go, oh,
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Speaker 1: I think it's great. Any steps a step in the
15:18
Speaker 1: right direction. From my perspective, you know, there might have
15:21
Speaker 1: been better if they'd used a different color or I
15:23
Speaker 1: don't really like that font, but it's one of those
15:26
Speaker 1: things where from your perspective, I just don't think it's
15:30
Speaker 1: how do I say this as sensitive as a lot
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Speaker 1: of people seem to take it when companies start to
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Speaker 1: embrace this community, because embracing the community is what we've
15:38
Speaker 1: been asking for, and I feel like we are so
15:41
Speaker 1: happy that that's now happening.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: I think that the tokenism pace is a really multifaceted,
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Speaker 4: privilege ridden ideal, right, Like I feel like there's no
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Speaker 4: guidelines or structure of what you know, tokenism isn't an
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Speaker 4: like if there are those guidelines or structures in place.
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Speaker 4: It's different for every intersection of the community. And I
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Speaker 4: think that people basically just need to have a go.
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Speaker 4: And you know, obviously it's an organizational or a corporate
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Speaker 4: sort of sentiment to want to have all your ducks
16:16
Speaker 4: in a row before going to market with certain bits
16:19
Speaker 4: and pieces. But I think more and more back to
16:22
Speaker 4: that millennial's piece about where they choose to spend their
16:26
Speaker 4: time or which organizations they elect to work for when
16:29
Speaker 4: there's a choice involved, I think that there is that
16:33
Speaker 4: sentiment of like, we just want to see folk having
16:34
Speaker 4: a go, because it really does getting the way of
16:37
Speaker 4: progress when people aren't, you know, taking a leap to
16:41
Speaker 4: begin with, it's never too late.
16:43
Speaker 1: I would hope not to go into I guess the
16:46
Speaker 1: meaning of why we've got you here this week? We
16:49
Speaker 1: obviously have had earlier this week International Women's Day, and
16:53
Speaker 1: I really wanted to talk about the meaning of International
16:56
Speaker 1: Women's Day and their lgbt QIA plus communities view on
17:00
Speaker 1: what that is and whether they embrace it or push
17:03
Speaker 1: it away. How do we make sure that on a
17:05
Speaker 1: day where it's so about, you know, quote women, how
17:09
Speaker 1: do we make sure that we aren't up here saying okay,
17:12
Speaker 1: well this is what's most important?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. And I guess, you know, as a caveat,
17:18
Speaker 4: I guess my perspective doesn't eclipse you know, of course,
17:22
Speaker 4: not all of you know, our rainbow acronym if you like.
17:25
Speaker 4: But I think that what we can all commit to
17:28
Speaker 4: for International Women's Day is ensuring that you know, there's
17:33
Speaker 4: diverse representation of the folk that we know consume content
17:37
Speaker 4: of of the events that we attend. I'm not really
17:40
Speaker 4: interested in an International Women's Day that you know, isn't
17:44
Speaker 4: sharing the experiences of trans women or women who have
17:48
Speaker 4: lived experience of disability, or First Nations women and sister girls,
17:52
Speaker 4: or those that are incarcerated or you know, might be
17:55
Speaker 4: a sex worker or use drugs. I think that there's
17:58
Speaker 4: a lot of women are consistently left behind, and I
18:02
Speaker 4: think that it's really important too to remember that whilst
18:07
Speaker 4: many folk in the LGBTQIA plus community might you know,
18:12
Speaker 4: they may not identify as female, many of us have
18:15
Speaker 4: a lived experience of walking through the world as female
18:20
Speaker 4: or woman or being perceived as such, even if that's incorrect. So,
18:25
Speaker 4: you know, making sure that your spaces are inclusive of
18:28
Speaker 4: gender diverse folk and folk that are non binary or
18:31
Speaker 4: intersex is really really important because I don't ever want
18:36
Speaker 4: the community to feel as if that day is not
18:38
Speaker 4: for them, because it most certainly is.
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Speaker 1: No absolutely, I'm going to go to a really quick
18:44
Speaker 1: break here and then when we come back, I've got
18:46
Speaker 1: even more questions about International Women's Day. But then also
18:50
Speaker 1: I want to deep dive when they need a gritty
18:51
Speaker 1: of your mental health and how you have such a
18:54
Speaker 1: good bloody mindset. We'll be back in a hot minute,
18:57
Speaker 1: all right. We are having a lovely conversation with my
19:01
Speaker 1: friend and she's on the Money community member Kate Fenwick.
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Speaker 1: Kate is a transgender diversity and inclusion specialist and public
19:08
Speaker 1: health student and as we said earlier in the episode,
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Speaker 1: last year, Kate was announced is one of the out
19:13
Speaker 1: for Australia's thirty under thirty, spotlighting young Lgbtquia plus people
19:19
Speaker 1: who are making a tremendous contribution towards bettering the lives
19:23
Speaker 1: of their community in Australia. Kate, before we went to
19:26
Speaker 1: a break, we were talking about what International Women's Day
19:28
Speaker 1: means to the as you called it, rainbow acronym community,
19:33
Speaker 1: which I thought was rather cute. But I want to
19:36
Speaker 1: know what it means for you. What does International Women's
19:39
Speaker 1: Day mean for you as someone who was presumed female
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Speaker 1: at birth?
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Speaker 4: That's great one. I think International Women's Day, you know,
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Speaker 4: is all about celebrating you know, the musicians and the
19:50
Speaker 4: artists and the folk that have had an inherent impact
19:54
Speaker 4: on may about you know, communicating and learning and understanding
19:59
Speaker 4: more with like my own mother, who has been so
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Speaker 4: central to my understanding and early interest in you know,
20:07
Speaker 4: diversity and inclusion. Definitely wasn't called that back then, but
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Speaker 4: that's what it was to her teachings as a primary
20:13
Speaker 4: school educator, about reflecting and thinking about the contributions that
20:17
Speaker 4: my grandmothers have made on my life who are no
20:19
Speaker 4: longer with us, and you know, thinking about, you know,
20:22
Speaker 4: how they'd interpret the world now if they were, and
20:25
Speaker 4: what our relationship would look like now. I think that's
20:28
Speaker 4: always a really nice thing to engage with, thinking about
20:31
Speaker 4: the incredible women that I work with. Diversity and inclusion
20:35
Speaker 4: often in Australia sits within human resources spaces, which are
20:40
Speaker 4: you know, typically or have been historically female dominated, I suppose,
20:46
Speaker 4: and it's really interesting. I haven't previously worked in spaces that,
20:51
Speaker 4: you know, we're quite female dominated, and it's a really
20:54
Speaker 4: refreshing experience to understand and learn more about what those
20:58
Speaker 4: spaces look like. And you know, having those mentors around
21:02
Speaker 4: you every day is incredible LinkedIn has been a really
21:05
Speaker 4: good one in terms of IWD and thinking about the
21:09
Speaker 4: mentorship and support that I've received from folk over there. Yeah,
21:13
Speaker 4: I feel like it's such a hard question to answer
21:15
Speaker 4: because it is so multifaceted, and I think break the
21:18
Speaker 4: bias this year allows you to really consider as the
21:22
Speaker 4: theme allows you to really consider those varying perspectives, and
21:27
Speaker 4: you know, understand more about you know where to from
21:30
Speaker 4: here and what your personal responsibility is and what our
21:32
Speaker 4: responsibility is as part of the communities in which we reside.
21:36
Speaker 3: In one hundred percent, and I want to talk a
21:39
Speaker 3: little bit about what you were saying with how diversity
21:41
Speaker 3: inclusion today looks very different from how it did. It
21:44
Speaker 3: didn't even really exist the way we know of it,
21:47
Speaker 3: you know, when your mum was young, or when your
21:48
Speaker 3: grandma was young. And I think now we have to
21:51
Speaker 3: recognize that as much as it's International Women's Day, our
21:55
Speaker 3: understanding of what a woman is now is vastly different
21:59
Speaker 3: from the very black and white perspective that we may
22:02
Speaker 3: be viewed it from a couple of decades ago. And
22:04
Speaker 3: now there may be people who are somewhere along their
22:08
Speaker 3: journey and maybe they're transitioning from male to female, female
22:11
Speaker 3: to male. Maybe they're still learning to understand their pronouns
22:14
Speaker 3: and how they feel comfortable. How can we best support
22:18
Speaker 3: or best be allies to those people who maybe don't
22:22
Speaker 3: present in a way that we would traditionally consider them
22:25
Speaker 3: a woman. How do we make sure that we're not
22:27
Speaker 3: excluding people from these conversations who absolutely deserve to be
22:31
Speaker 3: there and deserve to be a part of it. Because,
22:34
Speaker 3: you know, going back to that thing with cancel culture,
22:36
Speaker 3: I think that people are really quick to want to
22:38
Speaker 3: make this about women, and there is, as you said,
22:41
Speaker 3: kind of a traditional view of what that woman is.
22:44
Speaker 3: And breaking the bias, I think to me really means
22:47
Speaker 3: taking a step back from that and going, hey, like,
22:49
Speaker 3: it's actually much broader than you might think it is,
22:53
Speaker 3: and it's important. I think that we're welcoming everybody. How
22:56
Speaker 3: can we do that and how can we avoid falling
22:58
Speaker 3: into that trap of saying, oh, you're a man, you
23:00
Speaker 3: shouldn't be celebrating international women's Say this one's for the women.
23:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good one. And I think that breaking
23:05
Speaker 4: down stereotypes and understanding of the gender binary as being
23:09
Speaker 4: you know, so black and white is inherently good for everyone.
23:13
Speaker 4: It doesn't just benefit trans intersex, gender diverse people, sister girls,
23:18
Speaker 4: brother boys. It benefits all because it removes arbitrary pressures
23:23
Speaker 4: that aren't real. So I think in terms of, you know,
23:27
Speaker 4: similar to what Victoria does in terms of sharing more
23:30
Speaker 4: about She's on the money and who's it for? And
23:33
Speaker 4: what it does is whilst you know, the title might
23:36
Speaker 4: be She's on the Money, or the title might be
23:38
Speaker 4: International Women's Day, really reinforcing that you know, your event
23:41
Speaker 4: is for everyone to attend. You know that you really want,
23:45
Speaker 4: you know, even a little note down the bottom, like
23:47
Speaker 4: we really hope that you know, trans and gender diverse
23:50
Speaker 4: women feel really empowered to take up space as part
23:53
Speaker 4: of our event, you know, listening to our stories, sharing
23:57
Speaker 4: in that lived experience. And I think that when you
24:00
Speaker 4: walk through the world of someone who has presumed female
24:02
Speaker 4: at birth and is now perhaps more interested in centering
24:08
Speaker 4: you know, personal masculinity or whatever, I think it's a
24:11
Speaker 4: really rich thing that the transgender diverse community brings to
24:15
Speaker 4: the world. I mean, you know, for employers, for people
24:18
Speaker 4: that are you know, in community, it's like this person
24:21
Speaker 4: has got a really broad perspective that they can bring
24:25
Speaker 4: to the table based on their lived experiences, and therefore,
24:28
Speaker 4: you know, why wouldn't you want to send to that
24:30
Speaker 4: person's ways of being, doing, and knowing at an event
24:34
Speaker 4: that's aligned with International Women's Day. It's an opportunity for
24:37
Speaker 4: all of us to share and understand more about one another.
24:41
Speaker 4: And what can be done to break the bias.
24:44
Speaker 1: I suppose good good wrap into the theme of today.
24:48
Speaker 1: But I have another question, and it's kind of like
24:50
Speaker 1: flipping the narrative of what you've been saying, because I
24:52
Speaker 1: would hate to think that anyone in our community doesn't
24:56
Speaker 1: feel welcome because as you know, Kate that she and
24:59
Speaker 1: she's on the money, as you alluded to before, it's
25:02
Speaker 1: actually me, it's not it's not the community, it's not
25:05
Speaker 1: women only. It is whoever feels like they want to
25:08
Speaker 1: come and hang out with us, They are welcome. I
25:10
Speaker 1: don't care what you wear, I don't care who you are,
25:12
Speaker 1: don't care what you identify as. I just want to
25:15
Speaker 1: make sure that we are surrounded by kind humans. And
25:18
Speaker 1: I feel like that's ound non negotiable, right. You've got
25:21
Speaker 1: to be a kind, open human to be part of
25:23
Speaker 1: our community. But what are your greatest concerns for the
25:29
Speaker 1: LGBTQIA plus community in twenty twenty two. I feel like
25:32
Speaker 1: we've made some progress, but it's from my perspective, not
25:36
Speaker 1: nearly enough. What are your biggest concerns?
25:39
Speaker 4: Gosh, And like, you know, don't have the stats in
25:43
Speaker 4: front of me, but I think, you know, in terms
25:45
Speaker 4: of housing, health equity, like finances. Our community grew up
25:50
Speaker 4: off the back of generations that came before us, of
25:52
Speaker 4: people who things like retirement, they didn't get there. You know.
25:57
Speaker 4: We think about our siblings that went through the AIDS epidemic,
26:01
Speaker 4: They went through systematic erasia, through you know, all different channels,
26:06
Speaker 4: and you know, unfortunately they didn't live long enough to
26:09
Speaker 4: think about what retirement potentially could look like. And I
26:13
Speaker 4: think that there's been a societal change of realizing that
26:16
Speaker 4: we are still here, you know, as a community, and
26:20
Speaker 4: you know, we need to put mechanisms and pieces in
26:22
Speaker 4: place to ensure that our futures are bright so that
26:26
Speaker 4: we can access the health care that we're required. People
26:29
Speaker 4: forget to realize that transigender diverse people and intersex folk
26:33
Speaker 4: in our community is when it comes to healthcare in
26:36
Speaker 4: a lot of respects are still guinea picks. You know,
26:38
Speaker 4: there's so much that we don't know about the long
26:41
Speaker 4: term impacts of things like HRT, of different procedures that
26:45
Speaker 4: folk might go through in order to actualize as their
26:48
Speaker 4: true self. And we would hate to ever, you know,
26:51
Speaker 4: steer people away from living that authentic life. But you know,
26:55
Speaker 4: there's so much unknown, and we see that these conversations
26:59
Speaker 4: are centered on the existence of trans children, those different
27:03
Speaker 4: things that might be done to enable those kids to
27:05
Speaker 4: be their true selves. We talk about that in isolation.
27:09
Speaker 4: The media does anyway, and it's like funding an investment
27:12
Speaker 4: in our health and our care is vital in order
27:15
Speaker 4: for our community to be able to thrive and to
27:19
Speaker 4: understand and know more. And the same can be said
27:21
Speaker 4: of women's health and of folk with disability in terms
27:24
Speaker 4: of you know, we know all the stories, and we
27:26
Speaker 4: have friends and family members and loved ones that deal
27:29
Speaker 4: with you know, gnological type concerns that you know don't
27:32
Speaker 4: get unraveled for years, and that's purely because the money
27:35
Speaker 4: and the study and the investment hasn't been placed on
27:38
Speaker 4: understanding more about those issues that seemingly impact half the population. Right. So, yeah,
27:44
Speaker 4: I think a lot of the concerns for the LGBTQIA
27:46
Speaker 4: plus community are not dissimilar to other intersections of our communities,
27:52
Speaker 4: and it's just about understanding more about through conversations like
27:55
Speaker 4: this and storytelling of you know, making people aware of
27:58
Speaker 4: what those those gaps can so that we can actually
28:01
Speaker 4: make some tangible change.
28:02
Speaker 1: That's something that She's on the Money is trying very
28:05
Speaker 1: hard to make space for. I think with the podcast
28:09
Speaker 1: and with the community that we've built. We now have
28:11
Speaker 1: more than a million people in this community. We've obviously
28:14
Speaker 1: got quite a big Facebook group, but the podcast is
28:17
Speaker 1: arguably so much bigger. But as we grow, I feel
28:21
Speaker 1: this overwhelming sense of responsibility to make even more space
28:25
Speaker 1: for the minorities in my community, to make their voices
28:28
Speaker 1: feel heard and then use our power in She's on
28:31
Speaker 1: the Money to make sure that they are lifted up
28:34
Speaker 1: and celebrated and also supported through the journeys that they
28:38
Speaker 1: go through. To be honest, this is a bit of
28:40
Speaker 1: a selfish question, Kate. How can She's on the Money
28:44
Speaker 1: better support our community? How can we do better?
28:47
Speaker 2: Yeah?
28:47
Speaker 4: I mean historically, like She's on the Money, He's partnered
28:50
Speaker 4: with some great sponsors and I think, you know, moving forward,
28:55
Speaker 4: are there the opportunities of partnerships and sponsorships from continuing
28:59
Speaker 4: on the threads of you know, female founded or First
29:02
Speaker 4: Nations owned or LGBTQIA owned, to share with the community
29:05
Speaker 4: more products and resources that might be aligned to them.
29:09
Speaker 4: I noted that continuing the good work for the She's
29:11
Speaker 4: on the money events that are coming up with things
29:14
Speaker 4: like and ensuring accessibility for folk to be able to
29:16
Speaker 4: enjoy and attend those events and not feel compromised, that's
29:20
Speaker 4: a great one. Continuing doing what you're doing is a
29:24
Speaker 4: great start. But just yeah, more ways to incorporate resources
29:27
Speaker 4: and partnerships with historically underrepresented folk and platforming their services and.
29:34
Speaker 3: Offerings incredible, Kate, I just wanted to touch on obviously,
29:39
Speaker 3: you've gone through your own journey and you've been pretty
29:42
Speaker 3: open about sharing that on your social media, which I
29:45
Speaker 3: think has been incredible, And there's a very good chance
29:47
Speaker 3: that there's going to be some people listening today who
29:49
Speaker 3: identify with that and who maybe are not quite as
29:52
Speaker 3: far along as you are and maybe having a little
29:55
Speaker 3: bit of an internal struggle coming to terms with themselves
29:57
Speaker 3: and who they feel like they truly are and who
29:59
Speaker 3: they true you want to be. If someone is having
30:02
Speaker 3: a tough time, what would you say to them? Is
30:04
Speaker 3: there any resources out there that you can recommend? How
30:07
Speaker 3: has your own journey gone? What wisdom can you give
30:09
Speaker 3: someone now looking back having come so far?
30:12
Speaker 4: Yeah? So, I mean when I was sort of nineteen
30:15
Speaker 4: twenty heading down this path to understand more about what
30:19
Speaker 4: my gender identity is, this resource certainly didn't exist, and
30:23
Speaker 4: I'm so glad it does for folk embarking on this
30:25
Speaker 4: journey now, or even folks that have been part of
30:27
Speaker 4: this journey for a really long time but are just
30:30
Speaker 4: seeking more or their allies. Is trans Hub. So it's
30:33
Speaker 4: developed by Acorns. They have a whole team of folk
30:36
Speaker 4: who identify as trans or having a lived experience of
30:40
Speaker 4: gender diversity, by the Boys Sister Girls. They've created this
30:43
Speaker 4: resource and it's sort of broken into three sections and
30:46
Speaker 4: it's like social legal and the other component has escaped
30:53
Speaker 4: me right now, but it's basically breaking down into really
30:57
Speaker 4: like actionable steps for folk to take in terms of
31:00
Speaker 4: seeking out a gender affirming doctor or a surgeon, or
31:05
Speaker 4: you know, resources for templates to provide your employer if
31:09
Speaker 4: you've got to ask for certain accommodations to be made.
31:12
Speaker 4: And this Hub, you know, really breaks down the sister
31:16
Speaker 4: girl and brother boy experience, as well as providing services
31:19
Speaker 4: like trans Vitality and social well bases for building resilience
31:25
Speaker 4: in a world isn't necessarily always accommodating for folks that
31:29
Speaker 4: identify as transorgendered over so, I love that trans Hub
31:33
Speaker 4: is you one stop shop really for everyone, for allies too.
31:37
Speaker 4: There's a whole ally section. If you need to know
31:39
Speaker 4: more about how to support a loved one or even
31:42
Speaker 4: an employee or community member, that's great.
31:44
Speaker 1: I think everybody should take a couple of minutes and
31:47
Speaker 1: visit the website, regardless of whether you have a friend
31:50
Speaker 1: or a family member who is going through that, because
31:53
Speaker 1: if you're in the She's on the Money community, we
31:55
Speaker 1: have community members going through that, and the more supported
31:58
Speaker 1: they are. It's not just about having that outward support,
32:01
Speaker 1: it's actually about education, and the more education that is
32:04
Speaker 1: going around and the more knowledge about this space, the better.
32:08
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're experiencing it or not. Education is, honestly,
32:12
Speaker 1: from my perspective, the key to things like this and
32:15
Speaker 1: understanding what others are going through. You're never going to
32:18
Speaker 1: be able to put yourself in their shoes, but at
32:20
Speaker 1: least you'll know how to support them in the best
32:22
Speaker 1: possible way.
32:24
Speaker 3: One thousand percent. And I'm sure that there are definitely
32:27
Speaker 3: we know that there are small business owners in our community,
32:29
Speaker 3: and we would really encourage you. If it's something you're
32:31
Speaker 3: thinking about or want to learn more about, to engage
32:34
Speaker 3: a specialist in this area.
32:36
Speaker 1: You can just go to Kate. Kate will do it.
32:38
Speaker 3: I was going to say, Kate, do you have a website?
32:40
Speaker 3: Do you have is there anywhere that you can recommend
32:42
Speaker 3: people go if they are looking for someone to provide
32:44
Speaker 3: this kind of educational resource to their team to ensure
32:48
Speaker 3: that they're putting their best foot forward in this space
32:49
Speaker 3: and being as open and welcoming as a business as
32:52
Speaker 3: they possibly can be.
32:53
Speaker 4: Look, clearly, I'm Acorn's number one fanboy, so you've got
32:57
Speaker 4: trans hard. But then for folk that are working, working
33:00
Speaker 4: in organizations or looking to have further support, there's also
33:04
Speaker 4: pride in diversity, which is a different of what Acorn
33:08
Speaker 4: does to provide support. And you know, perhaps I can
33:12
Speaker 4: send some through to v to pop in the show
33:14
Speaker 4: notes for different states around Australia as well, because obviously
33:18
Speaker 4: my frame of reference is definitely a monup on a
33:20
Speaker 4: warbicle country in Newcastle in New South Wales. So yeah,
33:24
Speaker 4: get those resources specific to the areas that you're in.
33:28
Speaker 1: That would be so helpful. I really appreciate you doing
33:31
Speaker 1: the work for us, even though you definitely don't have to, Kate,
33:35
Speaker 1: we have taken up more than enough of your time
33:37
Speaker 1: and we're incredibly grateful for it. But just before we go,
33:40
Speaker 1: I want to ask one question that we have asked
33:42
Speaker 1: all of the change makers that have been on the
33:44
Speaker 1: podcast this week, and that is how have you celebrated
33:47
Speaker 1: International Women's Day.
33:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good one. Keeping it pretty pretty low key.
33:52
Speaker 4: Prepping for a surgery at the end of this month,
33:55
Speaker 4: so keeping things a bit quiet, which is exciting. Yes,
34:00
Speaker 4: we love to see it. What I want to do
34:02
Speaker 4: is make a donation to Sisters Inside. So Sister is
34:05
Speaker 4: Inside is it's an independent like community organization. It's based
34:09
Speaker 4: off in Queensland and they basically like assist folk who
34:13
Speaker 4: are entering or returning from prison to have like a
34:16
Speaker 4: better integration I suppose, either back into society or if
34:20
Speaker 4: they are stepping into the prison system, how they can
34:23
Speaker 4: best be supported, whether it be for health issues or
34:26
Speaker 4: you know substance use. A big portion of their community
34:31
Speaker 4: is First Nations women and they provide different resources and
34:35
Speaker 4: opportunities for those folk trans women as well. To know,
34:39
Speaker 4: I guess have a better relationship or interaction I guess
34:42
Speaker 4: with a system that maybe historically hasn't been very supportive
34:47
Speaker 4: of them.
34:47
Speaker 1: They sound like legends. We will make sure link to
34:49
Speaker 1: them is in our show notes. But Kate, as always, unfortunately,
34:53
Speaker 1: that is all we have time for today.
34:58
Speaker 3: And remember the I sheared on. She's on the money
35:01
Speaker 3: is generally nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
35:04
Speaker 3: Shees on the money exists purely for educational purposes and
35:07
Speaker 3: should not be relied upon to make an investment or
35:09
Speaker 3: a financial decision. And we promised. Victoria Divine is an
35:12
Speaker 3: authorized representative of Infocused Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN four
35:17
Speaker 3: seven oh nine seven seven ninety seven O four nine
35:19
Speaker 3: AFSL two three six five two three See you next week.
35:23
Speaker 3: Why