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Is There Free Will? · Life In Flow Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Life In Flow podcast.
• 0:03
  The three of us,
• 0:05
  Yulia,
• 0:05
  Polina and Irina,
• 0:07
  are exploring what Life In Flow and Flow In Life is.
• 0:12
  Join us as we experiment,
• 0:15
  test our diverse hypotheses and have fun in the process.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Will we find an answer?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
• 0:30
  We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that the
• 0:35
  conversation itself
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: becomes a group flow experience.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Go beyond the intellectual information.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Listen with your whole body.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
• 1:05
  Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind,
• 1:11
  body and energy flow together.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the new episode of Life In Flow podcast.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are again.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yulia, Polina and I, Irina, will be steering the flow today.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: And...
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: The question that we will be discussing is Is there a free will?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: To be honest,
• 1:42
  since the beginning of our project I have been avoiding this
• 1:47
  question because
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: honestly to me it feels like a rabbit hole and yet
• 1:57
  it emerged in one of our previous discussions and now nothing
• 2:02
  can be done we can't
• 2:04
  avoid it but talk about it so um let me remind you a little bit
• 2:13
  of the what was
• 2:15
  happening the previous episodes of the series so in several
• 2:22
  episodes back we were
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: discussing um
• 2:26
  the question of how we are making decisions because I was
• 2:30
  interested in how we can
• 2:33
  combine the functionality and necessity of the no with the
• 2:42
  principle of yes and
• 2:44
  that we have identified as one of the main principles that
• 2:49
  should rule our utopia
• 2:54
  And we haven't found the answer to the main question that I
• 2:59
  wanted to answer yet,
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: because on our way,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: while we were discussing how we are making decisions,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: while we were exploring it,
• 3:09
  some doubt was voiced out regarding whether we are making
• 3:17
  decisions at all.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so, now we need to discuss it.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Are we making decisions?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Does anything depend on us?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 3:28
  everything is predetermined and what are the frameworks that
• 3:35
  help us to decide or
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: not to decide and to find our position in life in regards with our
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Free will or the lack of it.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: So as usual, we will start with a game, a little warm up.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I want us to go back to our playful exploration of metaphors.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: There is a tiny comment I wanted to make before we continue.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that is that the episode that you were referring to
• 4:23
  the name is how do we converge generatively in case someone
• 4:28
  wants to yes thank you
• 4:31
  very much that is true that is the name of the episode I
• 4:36
  actually wanted to to do
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: the like
• 4:44
  to talk about the backlog of all the previous series before
• 4:48
  that episode because
• 4:49
  there is like sort of the whole series of the episodes that
• 4:53
  flow one from the other
• 4:55
  but okay let's let's refer our listeners to the episode about
• 5:00
  the how do we
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: converge generatively so the game the metaphors and
• 5:11
  Let's go right into the matter of the question I want us to
• 5:23
  express the metaphors
• 5:24
  that come to our mind regarding what it feels like to have a
• 5:30
  free will So we will
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: go
• 5:39
  I guess I will start then Yulia will follow and Polina will be
• 5:44
  the third one we
• 5:46
  will do two or maybe three rounds and the rule is simple you
• 5:51
  just need to complete
• 5:53
  the phrase having a free will is like and whatever comes to
• 6:00
  your mind whatever
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: metaphors comparisons whatever your imaginations
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: brings to you.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: I did not prepare.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have anything ready.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So let's connect together to our field,
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: to the field,
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: to the realm of imagination where everything is possible.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And having a free will
• 6:38
  is like knowing how to shoot an arrow and hit the target having
• 6:59
  it free will will will will is
• 7:07
  like a single leaf that is hanging somewhere in the air not
• 7:18
  even on a branch of a
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: tree just suspended in the air having free will is
• 7:33
  Like a very smart rat learning to eat and drink from a banana
• 7:40
  tree flower while all
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: its friends are scavenging the garbage cans.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Having a free will is like being a magician that
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: creates his or her own reality.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Having free will is like a wave that is far away from the ocean.
• 8:44
  Having free will is deciding which worm you're going to go for
• 8:51
  as you fly over them.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do the third round.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like to squeeze our creative juices.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Having a free will is like...
• 9:13
  Having a hammer with which you can break a door in the wall of
• 9:25
  the universe.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Having a free will is like
• 9:43
  Your one wing can fly but the rest of the body cannot Having
• 9:49
  free will is like
• 9:51
  being a bird and losing your leg and still being the bully on
• 9:57
  the beach Okay,
• 10:02
  thank you We can see that some patterns of the future
• 10:06
  conversation are emerging
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: already which is great but we're not done yet
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's turn around and explore the other side.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we do the other three rounds.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now exploring the metaphors for what it is like not having a free will.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: So the rules are the same.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Not having a free will is like and whatever image comes to our mind.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: The order is the same too.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: So let's continue.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: not having a free will is like making a jump into the
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: vast universe and trusting that it will support you.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Not having free will is
• 11:49
  A hand becoming a hand although it might have liked to become a
• 11:57
  head Not having
• 12:06
  free will is inheriting all of your family's patterns and the
• 12:15
  entire lineage worth
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: of stuff
• 12:23
  Not having free will is like being a passenger on a seat on a
• 12:46
  train that goes somewhere
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: and all you can do is just sit and look into the window,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: observe the other passengers and go where the train takes you.
• 13:07
  Not having free will is like a leaf that through the spring and
• 13:16
  the summer gets to enjoy.
• 13:22
  The energy provided by the tree and the schedule on the
• 13:28
  schedule decided by the
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: seasons and the climate.
• 13:38
  Not having free will is someone else deciding about how
• 13:44
  everything else is treated
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: and you just have to put up with it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Not having free will is like being a part of the complex mechanisms,
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: mechanism of,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: consisting of many,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: many different parts and details and other mechanisms,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: and they all
• 14:21
  working together and you even have no idea what is the purpose
• 14:33
  of the goal of the
• 14:33
  whole system all you can do is just do your part and work
• 14:43
  together with the other
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: details around you that you're connected to
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because otherwise if you don't do your part, everything will break.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Not having free will means you are being breathed at all times.
• 15:15
  Means your heart is heart-beaten Means your blood getting
• 15:23
  circulated Means your
• 15:28
  eyes being closed when it's time to rest Not having free will
• 15:38
  is being born
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow!
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much!
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think this game sets an interesting tone for our discussion.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I can see already the threads of what can be voiced out today.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have many questions for us to discuss.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Only a few ones, but they're fundamental.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go straight into the core of the matter.
• 16:25
  This whole question of the free will emerged because in our
• 16:29
  previous conversation
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: in that episode that I mentioned about the how to converge generatively,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: we finished with the...
• 16:41
  Reflection that whether we make decisions or not depends on the
• 16:47
  frameworks we use
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: in order to describe the world and ourselves in the world.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it all depends on the framework.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about our frameworks.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the question I want you to answer.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: So what frameworks regarding
• 17:11
  freewill or the lack of it you contemplate in your worldview
• 17:18
  and how these
• 17:22
  framework or these frameworks impact your decision making and
• 17:29
  generally like your
• 17:30
  being in the world and how you you're treating yourself and
• 17:35
  life itself because you
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: know like
• 17:43
  we can build multiple hypotheses about how it all works and we
• 17:49
  can say that you
• 17:50
  know it's all just an illusion it's a hallucination of a
• 17:56
  bacteria in the pool of a
• 17:59
  cosmic whale that floats somewhere in the cosmos and so nothing
• 18:05
  exists anyway but
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm a part of this hallucination,
• 18:14
  so how does thinking that it's just a hallucination help me in
• 18:21
  my being within this
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: hallucination?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: It might help,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
• 18:24
  maybe it helps me to take everything easier and not to take my
• 18:32
  problems too
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: seriously because it's all hallucination anyway.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: But if it doesn't change
• 18:40
  the way how I treat myself and the world how I act how I make
• 18:48
  decisions then like
• 18:52
  okay it's just an interesting hypothesis but it doesn't change
• 18:55
  anything that is why
• 18:57
  I'm asking you not just to share what frameworks you
• 19:03
  contemplate but how you how
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: they impact your being in this life
• 19:14
  I I want to start by saying that how I contemplated is by
• 19:22
  making a distinction and
• 19:24
  that distinction is free will versus agency okay and so how I
• 19:34
  see look at free will
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: is through um
• 19:43
  the feature that I consider foundational to all life and that
• 19:48
  feature is us being
• 19:50
  porous and we touched on this in one of the early episodes but
• 19:56
  basically there
• 19:58
  isn't there is hardly anything in this world which we come into
• 20:04
  contact with that
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: doesn't touches touch us in one way or another and
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I wake up, the type of weather impacts my mood.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: The type of,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:24
  dream that I saw majorly can impact my state and the thoughts
• 20:32
  that are there.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And dreams are, of course, in my worldview are
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know big subconscious that can come from a lot of sources including a
• 20:46
  collective or universal and then I sit on the chair and the
• 20:51
  chair actually has
• 20:52
  already shaped me and my posture and my butt and my back and as
• 21:00
  I sit on the chair
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know no one is sitting next to me because it's not
• 21:07
  the bench let's say it's not the floor so I feel that I'm kind
• 21:12
  of alone or separate
• 21:14
  or I'm an individual and then I'm far from the floor so it's as
• 21:19
  if I'm above and
• 21:22
  then I'm watching the screen or I read news and you know
• 21:28
  something clicks and takes
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: me on a journey that I myself am not aware of
• 21:35
  and so this is how well and then of course I go to the forest
• 21:42
  and I hug a tree and
• 21:44
  I you know receive some kind of message whether in words or in
• 21:48
  emotion and that is
• 21:50
  how I am that is how I see myself constantly being co-created
• 21:57
  by so many beings
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: things creatures
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: but at the same time,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: it doesn't mean that I don't have agency,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: meaning that I cannot somehow direct or also shape my experience.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I'm aware what I'm co-creating with, then I can choose
• 22:27
  For example,
• 22:28
  I know that me co-creating with screens or with the phone is a
• 22:32
  disaster for me.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know that me co-creating with some people is a disaster.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know what makes me co-create in the way that I really enjoy.
• 22:44
  And so the agency is navigating those experiences and creating
• 22:48
  spaces for myself
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: and co-creating opportunities where
• 22:56
  you know I moved somehow you know on the path that feels that
• 23:08
  feels like you know
• 23:10
  right that it's that feels like in the big scheme of things
• 23:18
  it's the path that is
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: mine
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: So in this distinction,
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: in your terminology,
• 23:30
  understand that having free will will be disregarding all this
• 23:37
  interconnectedness.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:41
  It's like a leaf without a tree being suspended in the air and
• 23:45
  not holding on to anything.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe in the space it was.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, can you clarify that one more time?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I got lost for a second.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Having free will is like a leaf that's not connected to a tree?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or the opposite?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: How is that free will?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because it,
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: for what I understand from Yulia Explorations,
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: in her view,
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: the free will gets you separated from
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: from the co-creation of the whole life system.
• 24:32
  But in this analogy or in this metaphor,
• 24:36
  the leaf had free will to disconnect from the branch?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: The leaf was nowhere.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when I imagine a leaf that is suspended in cosmos somehow,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how it got there.
• 24:50
  like it's not it's it's just basically in some vacuum where how
• 24:58
  was it created even
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: that is the image that I see okay
• 25:14
  But where where's the inflection point of free will in in
• 25:18
  because that leaf is on a
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: trajectory from a specific sequence of events.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: So where is the free will in in this trajectory?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because most likely no free will.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is no free will in
• 25:40
  you know and and that is what that image is for me that the
• 25:45
  will the the leaf has
• 25:49
  no no connection to anything and it's basically it it is yeah
• 25:58
  suspended in in in
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: vacuum or in space
• 26:08
  So the moments when we're no longer connected to whatever
• 26:11
  system we're part of,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: those are the moments of free will?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's not possible.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the picture is something that doesn't make any sense.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're trying to show that...
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: The opposite,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: like that actually the free will doesn't exist Exactly,
• 26:35
  this is what she's saying For you it would be like a leaf
• 26:39
  suspended I see Okay So
• 26:45
  like in this interconnectedness any decision any any decision
• 26:53
  you make any action
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: you take is always influenced by the rest of the system
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: You have the agency,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: but it's in none of the points,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: none of the moments,
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: it's just solely your decision.
• 27:13
  It's the emergence of all the factors interconnected within the
• 27:19
  life system.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm having a hard time with these metaphors today.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that makes sense now.
• 27:31
  And so...
• 27:40
  Yulia,
• 27:40
  how does it affect your decision making,
• 27:48
  this volume,
• 27:50
  this framework?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know that there are constraints.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Always in my decisions.
• 28:02
  I don't have an illusion that I just can make a decision that
• 28:05
  really I can invent in my head.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: We also discussed at some point that I'm looking for signs or signals.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that I
• 28:31
  have fallen in love recently is dream work as a way of
• 28:40
  orientation and it is well I
• 28:49
  mean like the the vastness of what is happening in the
• 28:53
  unconscious and how it in so
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: many unseen ways is
• 29:02
  like working on us is to me like incredible after that vision
• 29:09
  quest that I went on
• 29:11
  and I realized that being like in tune a little bit through my
• 29:19
  dreams of what is
• 29:20
  happening there is is also like you know it gives me some heads
• 29:27
  up or some like
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: or some intelligence.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: What is it really that's happening?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Am I liking this or not?
• 29:43
  Or am I convincing with my mental power myself and being really
• 29:48
  good at it that
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: this is the way that I should go?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it like what kind of conflicts are happening and things like that?
• 29:55
  So basically I'm looking for intelligence and I'm looking for
• 30:00
  partners that
• 30:03
  you know can can help me make those decisions and for what we
• 30:11
  know about you and
• 30:12
  from what i hear understand that intelligence that the partners
• 30:16
  they may come from
• 30:20
  like any inanimate world and the spiritual world even like the
• 30:26
  perception beyond
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: the normal things that we see
• 30:32
  I want to say this quote the world is not a collection of
• 30:37
  objects but a communion
• 30:40
  of subjects so to me the world is animate I love it and it is
• 30:48
  the quote by whom?
• 30:51
  I think it's Wendell Berry he's like a writer and philosopher I
• 31:01
  think if I'm not mistaken
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Communion of subjects.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me what that means for you?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Again,
• 31:14
  it's speaking to the fact that everything we come together with
• 31:19
  or in contact with,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: they have agency in that they co-shape us.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Communion means that... Everything is alive.
• 31:34
  Communion means coming together and co-shaping each other to a
• 31:43
  certain degree.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: But what about the subjects part?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Subject speaks to the agency.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: How?
• 31:56
  Well,
• 31:56
  object is something that we act on and subject is something
• 31:59
  that has its own agency.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's not necessarily true, I feel, but okay.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you feel that?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: A subject may or may not have agency.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: It depends how you're using that word and what's behind it.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Can you paint me a picture?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give me a sentence of how you're using a subject that has agency?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to connect to what you mean.
• 32:44
  Like this computer that I'm using now I can use it as an object
• 32:54
  as if I am a user
• 32:55
  and I'm using it and at the same time it's using me all the
• 33:01
  time and it's changing
• 33:02
  me all the time I mean it's like taking me on journeys it you
• 33:06
  know keeps me in a
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: certain shape it keeps me in a certain state of mind so
• 33:13
  that is I treat I think him I treat him as a subject and when
• 33:22
  we come into
• 33:23
  communion I recognize his agency and the fact that I'm being
• 33:32
  co-created and
• 33:33
  co-shaped by him ah from that perspective I can see that now
• 33:39
  thank you for for
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Paulina, what are your frameworks?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, can I be honest?
• 34:02
  Like I am feeling so trippy and also transy but also like
• 34:08
  mentally I'm so far away from
• 34:12
  How Much Brain Power Is Required To Talk About Frameworks
• 34:15
  Because I'm Just
• 34:17
  Recovering As The Two Of You Know From A Very Long Arduous
• 34:23
  Sickness And I Have Not
• 34:28
  Had To Use My Brain For A Long Time And It's Been Such A
• 34:31
  Wonderful Break Oh My God
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: It Was Just Beautiful And
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Frameworks Let me remind you that you brought this word into the table.
• 34:48
  We can use any other word that feels more generative for you at
• 34:52
  this moment.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: I brought frameworks in?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Today?
• 34:57
  Not today Not today Not today Oh I see you're picking up from
• 35:04
  something I said in
• 35:05
  the past Exactly That past Polina doesn't exist no more Okay
• 35:14
  Okay so like how do
• 35:18
  you describe the world in regarding to the existence or in
• 35:22
  existence of free will?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Does free will exist for you?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: What does it mean?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a very slippery word and concept.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I can make an argument for both sides and also for neither.
• 35:42
  I think it's one of those things did the chicken or the egg
• 35:46
  come first it's
• 35:47
  literally a pointless discussion it's in the realm of
• 35:50
  philosophy it cannot be
• 35:52
  proved there is absolutely it's a pointless question so we're
• 36:01
  done then we're done
• 36:04
  no we're not done we're not done because are you making
• 36:09
  decisions in your life
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: How do you answer this question to yourself?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: The best decisions I've made have been not decisions but like,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: there's energy for this and oh,
• 36:23
  I can imagine myself moving towards this energy so I will move
• 36:27
  towards this.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a decision?
• 36:30
  I mean,
• 36:33
  not if we look at the normal function of the world and what
• 36:39
  that word means.
• 36:43
  Okay,
• 36:44
  but I have agency sometimes to move my body or my mind towards
• 36:50
  a specific thing.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, is that free will?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, because where does this freaking energy come from?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where does my motivation come from?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: How does it all come together for this movement to even happen?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 37:03
  Apparently computers can have agency and they're shaping us and
• 37:07
  I can totally see that point.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: But like, what?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: So when your body moves,
• 37:19
  you have this energy and you let your energy express itself
• 37:23
  through the movement of
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: your body.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is it you who moves your body or is it something else or someone else?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: Does anything depend on you in this context?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I guess if I feel like
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: If I feel like taking movement or Well,
• 37:53
  I don't know because then we could also take this question back
• 37:56
  to There are
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: different parts in all of us from the IFS perspective so
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:37
  I want to feel like we have some freaking say and that we have
• 38:43
  some agency
• 38:49
  You want to feel like it but you're not sure that you feel it
• 38:53
  I'm really not sure
• 38:54
  well because if you break it down it doesn't make any sense
• 38:57
  like which ice cream
• 38:59
  will I choose really depends on how inflamed my body is how
• 39:05
  much access I have to
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: my taste buds uh is it sunny outside
• 39:11
  Has someone just broken my heart so I'm going to go for the
• 39:14
  chocolate but if I'm
• 39:15
  really happy because nothing shitty happened today I might go
• 39:18
  for the vanilla Is
• 39:20
  that me making that decision or this like this operating system
• 39:24
  that I am occupying
• 39:25
  you know I don't know Also what's available in the environment
• 39:32
  Is there an ice
• 39:33
  cream shop that actually cares about your health and they've
• 39:37
  actually gone out of
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: their way
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: to make a healthy ice cream.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: So how does it change your action?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: if there is an ice cream shop that's gone out of their way to do so,
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: that creates a choice point for me,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: a choice point of having ice cream.
• 39:57
  But if there isn't a vendor like that in the area,
• 40:02
  I'm not going to have ice cream.
• 40:03
  But is that my choice or the vendor's choice of not providing
• 40:07
  healthy ice cream?
• 40:12
  Well Okay Let's explore this situation If there is a vendor
• 40:23
  That provides you
• 40:24
  healthy choice of ice cream Then I feel like I have no choice I
• 40:29
  must have it So you
• 40:32
  have no choice in this case I feel like I have no choice
• 40:35
  Because there's ice cream
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: that's actually healthy What?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to go to get this ice cream Of course!
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay,
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 40:45
  okay So those best decisions you mentioned that you describe as
• 40:59
  no decision but
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: just following some energetic pull
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Did it feel like I have no choice, I just must have this ice cream?
• 41:16
  Well,
• 41:19
  it's not just the energetic pool,
• 41:20
  it's also what is this system that I'm in?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Signaling to me internally, right?
• 41:29
  And what is,
• 41:31
  like,
• 41:31
  the bacteria in my gut is signaling to my brain,
• 41:35
  let's go get ice cream.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is that my choice?
• 41:39
  If the bacteria in my gut that has nothing to do with who I am
• 41:43
  is signaling to my
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: brain,
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: because it knows how to do that,
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: that I must go get ice cream.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: I totally get this example that I totally must go ice cream.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can relate.
• 41:56
  But now I can imagine that not having ice cream is not one of
• 42:02
  those best decisions
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: you have made,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: you referred to previously.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or yes, I don't know.
• 42:10
  Maybe one of the best decisions of your world was letting you
• 42:14
  have a healthy ice cream.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's talk about something more concrete.
• 42:26
  As you know,
• 42:27
  my dad passed away recently and my body decided to get very
• 42:33
  sick.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Decided because I have no idea why this happened, right?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't make a decision about being sick.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was the decision point,
• 42:43
  decision needed to be made about whether I fly to New York for
• 42:48
  the funeral,
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 42:53
  This was a very complicated decision because A,
• 42:57
  there was no energy available.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: There was no pool.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't feel it.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 43:02
  did I feel or not feel the pool because the energy was there or
• 43:06
  because I was so
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: sick that I couldn't actually receive the signal?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I was sick.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: How can you fly for that many hours as you're sick?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not my decision.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Again,
• 43:19
  that's like my system deciding for me whether or not I'm
• 43:22
  physically healthy enough
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: to travel.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 43:27
  Then there were also other factors like family members that I'm
• 43:32
  having a hard time
• 43:33
  with right now that I didn't want to ruin their experience of
• 43:38
  the funeral by just
• 43:39
  physically being present nor did I want them to ruin my
• 43:43
  experience and you know my
• 43:44
  journey with the grief by also me being physically present but
• 43:49
  at the same time I
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: was aware that me not being there will also create an issue anyway
• 43:56
  because I'm part of the system of this unit and so me being not
• 43:59
  there still will
• 44:01
  create a question mark an empty space so at the end of the day
• 44:09
  there are lots of
• 44:10
  other factors to be considered right in all of this but at the
• 44:14
  end of the day I
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: couldn't even make the decision because I was sick and
• 44:25
  Because I didn't feel the pull of the energy So I ended up not
• 44:31
  going But I didn't
• 44:35
  feel like I actually have agency at this inflection point And
• 44:39
  that I was actually
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: making a decision It was more like I wasn't making any decision
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I can relate to this example too.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: But let's follow the same storyline.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, you got sick.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: There was nothing you can do about it.
• 45:12
  That was the decision of your body,
• 45:15
  of guts,
• 45:16
  of higher forces,
• 45:18
  of your bacteria,
• 45:19
  whatever.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: But then you got better.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually got better right before I would have flown to New York.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: It seemed like I was getting better.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: It seemed like it.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:41
  but as we know I actually went straight back down to the again
• 45:46
  to the worst
• 45:47
  sickness on the day of the funeral so if I would have flown I
• 45:51
  would have been
• 45:52
  screwed because I I literally like I probably would have gotten
• 45:55
  even more sick
• 45:56
  because of the flying but I couldn't have known this ahead of
• 45:59
  time so were you
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: decided were you may like were you decided on
• 46:09
  Right I was decided on Exactly I didn't decide I was decided on
• 46:19
  Also As I was
• 46:22
  feeling better I actually The night before I started
• 46:26
  frantically searching for
• 46:28
  flights Because I was like I think I'm getting better
• 46:31
  Frantically searching for
• 46:32
  flights And guess what No flights available So who's making the
• 46:36
  decision Who has
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: agency in this
• 46:39
  So do you contemplate in your worldview that actually the whole
• 46:46
  system was making
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: the decision for you and giving you the signs that you shouldn't go?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: It actually made it impossible for you to go because you felt better,
• 47:06
  you started contemplating the possibility of going and so this
• 47:12
  option was closed.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was closed.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was not available.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: But still, let's continue the storyline.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: Then you got better.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: And when you got better...
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: You finally wrote to us and you said,
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: girls,
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm better,
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to do some work on our project.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: You could have said, you know what, I still feel like I want to relax.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: You could have said, no, no, no, I don't have a choice of relaxing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: I have to because I have obligations.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: You could have filled the pool.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, I feel like I want to do something.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: Something that I have this energetic pool towards.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: What was the case?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Did you make any decision there?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, I felt better.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: I started feeling like I had actually access and energy and motivation.
• 48:30
  And then the parts of me that are very responsible and very
• 48:35
  responsible about
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: actual obligations and responsibilities,
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: especially when it comes to,
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: if other people are relying on me,
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: like it's not even a question.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a decision point.
• 48:46
  Of course I'm going to come back as soon as I actually have
• 48:50
  some energy and my mind
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: is starting to work.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't see that as a decision point.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: We already decided this a year ago when we started this.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: So this is not ever really a decision point.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is just like going with the flow of what we're doing.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like getting married and there is no way out of it.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: There is no possibility of a divorce.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: What a good example, eh?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: if I still want to be married,
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: which in this case I do,
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: I still want to be married to this project.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love this project.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, it makes me happy.
• 49:32
  So no,
• 49:33
  but that that is still not a decision point because nothing has
• 49:37
  shifted.
• 49:37
  There's no variables that have shifted other than I was just
• 49:40
  sick and now I'm feeling better.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: Can I bring something in?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, please.
• 49:50
  So if we go kind of like up and take a bird's eye view of the
• 49:57
  lives so what has
• 49:59
  been really present for me for the last year or so is you know
• 50:07
  like soul or you
• 50:09
  know what the soul is and what the soul wants and in this
• 50:13
  framework and model that
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: I am relying on and it is by
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Bill Plotkin,
• 50:18
  Animus Valley Institute It's this kind of like specific place
• 50:24
  in the web of life
• 50:26
  that like no one else you uniquely are capable to support so
• 50:34
  there's something like
• 50:36
  some kind of well let's say gift maybe something unique that
• 50:42
  you are here to give
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: to this world and
• 50:49
  Basically there is or in the past there used to be like a
• 50:53
  process of finding out
• 50:56
  what it is but you know actually people knew that you're not to
• 51:03
  play with your soul
• 51:04
  but by not responding to its calls because your life will be
• 51:10
  miserable the life of
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: others will be miserable because there is this like misfit
• 51:17
  but also because you are always like the whole life you are
• 51:22
  going against the grain
• 51:24
  of the of life itself of your life itself so it appears that
• 51:29
  you are making
• 51:31
  decisions but are you because the decisions had been the
• 51:36
  decision had been made for
• 51:37
  you you know like what kind of soul you are in inhabiting right
• 51:42
  that according to
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: beale you know it's
• 51:44
  The soul is something that kind of like keeps its skill set or
• 51:49
  whatever so it's not
• 51:50
  the ego and the self that you get but just the soul with its
• 51:54
  place and you like
• 51:55
  keep working on it and you know from this perspective what kind
• 52:05
  of like real well
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: it's not really free will it's you being um you know like
• 52:11
  given which is very I think which is very generous that you
• 52:17
  know everyone is given
• 52:18
  this unique place in in the web of life that is um you know he
• 52:23
  or she is capable to
• 52:25
  support and then everything that is happening around that can
• 52:31
  take a form of
• 52:34
  you know people making decisions to do this and to choose this
• 52:38
  as purpose and to
• 52:39
  choose that as purpose but actually their purpose has been has
• 52:43
  been chosen and
• 52:45
  again like we do have agency in how we navigate this but um I I
• 53:02
  can accept the
• 53:04
  like the distinction between the free will and agency i don't
• 53:09
  let's say i don't
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: mind separating these terms um i don't have do i have a special emotional
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: attachment to the concept of free will well
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe actually I do.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me share my frameworks.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: I do have frameworks.
• 53:39
  Because on one hand I can totally relate to everything that you
• 53:44
  have expressed and
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: how you described things.
• 53:49
  But in my worldview I actually have two frameworks that
• 53:55
  describe the existence of
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: an existence of free will
• 54:00
  Differently and actually it might seem they describe it in a
• 54:03
  totally opposite ways
• 54:07
  but i have found the way to reconcile and the first framework
• 54:14
  is the framework of
• 54:15
  human design that i came across about like 10 years ago and it
• 54:24
  was really in
• 54:28
  turning point in my life that split the life before and after
• 54:37
  and one of the key
• 54:40
  points of the human design system is exactly that there is no
• 54:46
  free will nothing
• 54:48
  depends on us it only seems it might seem to us that we might
• 54:54
  make decisions that
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: but in fact
• 54:58
  it's just like we are part of the life system of life mechanism
• 55:05
  it's all like its
• 55:07
  view is very mechanistic actually mechanistic and so we're just
• 55:12
  the parts in the
• 55:14
  system that is the wheels that are turning around and all we
• 55:21
  can do is just take a
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: seat and observe
• 55:25
  and accept that we can't do anything and coming across with
• 55:32
  this teaching at a
• 55:34
  certain point was really very important for me because at that
• 55:41
  period of my life I
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: think I was looking for the ways of learning how to trust life
• 55:54
  I think we talked about this concept of trust and trust in life
• 56:00
  and just learning
• 56:01
  how to release control and let myself just go with the flow of
• 56:05
  life because at that
• 56:10
  point really trying to exercise my free will that that moment
• 56:19
  was taking form of
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: okay like I'm setting up the goal
• 56:24
  and I'm taking actions and making plaques and executing on the
• 56:28
  plans to achieve my
• 56:30
  goals and all these goals achieving was really very energy
• 56:38
  draining and it did feel
• 56:41
  like I'm going against the whole world but at the same time
• 56:49
  because this is how we
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: are taught
• 56:54
  to be in the world that like either you set the goals and you
• 57:01
  go towards the goals
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: and you achieve that or if you don't then you are not worth anything so
• 57:14
  And one of the key principles that human design teaches is how
• 57:25
  you learn to pay
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: attention to different signals in your body to learn to discern
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: Where actually the whole system you're a part of is taking you.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like what is the most natural?
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: Where is this energetic pool that Paulina talks about?
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all about you.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: You are supposed to learn it from your body.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: It gets expressed.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: Life gets expressed its will through you, through your body.
• 58:06
  And so you just learn to trust it and to trust the signals and
• 58:11
  act upon them And I
• 58:14
  actually mentioned in one of our episodes previously this story
• 58:19
  So I started with
• 58:22
  enthusiasm and really like I felt very excited about trying
• 58:29
  this new way of being
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: in the world
• 58:33
  Like I'm not making a decision I'm just listening to my body
• 58:37
  what decisions it
• 58:38
  makes really what are the real decisions what is how what path
• 58:44
  corresponds to me in
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: all this global system and so what happened is one day
• 58:53
  I come across following this web of different signals that I
• 59:00
  receive from my body.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: I come across a magical school.
• 59:05
  Magical means that taught teachers magic,
• 59:09
  not the illusionist work,
• 59:11
  but the...
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: Magical school.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: Magic, magic.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like how you...
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: affect the world and your reality with nonlinear methods.
• 59:27
  And I got very clear system of a signal from my body that I
• 59:32
  need to go there.
• 59:34
  So I started taking the courses,
• 59:37
  I started studying there and everything what was
• 59:44
  Talked about that school was about that we need to train the
• 59:49
  free will we need to
• 59:50
  train the free will our free will so it's all about our will
• 59:55
  and how we impose it
• 59:56
  on our reality so like and I was like I don't understand it but
• 1:00:06
  I believe in human
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: design
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: I follow this teaching.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: I follow the signals of my body.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: Teaching design, human design says that there is no free will.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I follow the system, I follow the signals and it brings me to this.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, what is going on?
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: So what I realized then is that there are different
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go,
• 1:00:40
  there are different free wills There is the illusion of free
• 1:00:46
  will that the exercise
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: in majority of part of our lives and the majority of people Well,
• 1:00:54
  let's say it's like the majority of people don't have any free
• 1:00:58
  will because they
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: act on just following their automatisms
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is set up.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: Life is the way it is.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing can be done.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: I just follow the drill.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: But then some people start realizing, no, you know what?
• 1:01:22
  There is a goal setting and goal achieving and people on
• 1:01:26
  Instagram show that
• 1:01:28
  Like if you do XYZ then you can achieve this goal And actually
• 1:01:36
  many people start
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: following these advices and they discover that you know what?
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's true If I impose the discipline, self-discipline on myself
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Start doing deliberately certain things.
• 1:01:50
  It turns out that I can get out of what I thought was
• 1:01:55
  predetermined from me and I
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: can start proposing my better goals and achieving them,
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: etc.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: The thing is that it is true that in order to be able to do that,
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: we need to get disconnected from the rest of the world.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: So like in order to learn
• 1:02:16
  to train the illusion of free will that there is something that
• 1:02:24
  depends on me,
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_02: something that I can change in my life.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: We need to disconnect from many signals that would
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: Indicate that this is actually not your goal,
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: this is not your part,
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: this is not your true self,
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: this is something,
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: the program that you inherited from your family,
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: from your parents,
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: from the society,
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: etc.
• 1:02:54
  But it's an unavoidable phase because this is how this eager
• 1:03:02
  interface that allows us to
• 1:03:06
  to connect to interact with the world and to express our
• 1:03:10
  individuality this is how
• 1:03:13
  it gets framed let's say it so like you said unavoidable or
• 1:03:21
  avoidable it's
• 1:03:22
  unavoidable unavoidable okay yes we need to go through this
• 1:03:27
  phase but then at a
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: certain point there comes a moment when you
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: Realize that it stopped working.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't happen to everyone.
• 1:03:42
  When it happens,
• 1:03:43
  it happens at different moments of life,
• 1:03:46
  at different moments.
• 1:03:48
  Sometimes it may happen when you achieved all the goals and you
• 1:03:51
  realize,
• 1:03:51
  okay,
• 1:03:52
  now what?
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: What now?
• 1:03:55
  There is no meaning in all these achieving goals and to someone
• 1:04:00
  it happens at
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: different points of life.
• 1:04:03
  But then something awakens in you when you become more aware
• 1:04:10
  that the world around
• 1:04:12
  you is actually alive and it is saying something to you and you
• 1:04:19
  are part of it.
• 1:04:19
  So basically,
• 1:04:21
  these are the different level,
• 1:04:23
  we can call it different level of consciousness.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: So at the lowest level when we just follow our automatisms
• 1:04:35
  It's like I'm dead and the world is dead too Everything is
• 1:04:40
  inanimate because it's
• 1:04:42
  just everything pretty dormant I can't do anything The world is
• 1:04:47
  like it is,
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: life is what it is Nothing can be done
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: Then we get into the position that,
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: the world is dead,
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm alive,
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: I can impose my will on the world,
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: so I start exercising this muscle.
• 1:05:03
  And then you get to the point when you realize,
• 1:05:06
  okay,
• 1:05:06
  I'm alive,
• 1:05:08
  and the world is alive too.
• 1:05:11
  And then you need to start unlearning all this imposing of your
• 1:05:16
  free will on the world that
• 1:05:19
  Actually has its own free will too So now at this point we can
• 1:05:23
  change the word free
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_02: will into the agency if we want But then,
• 1:05:32
  and this is coming from all these esoteric magical teachings
• 1:05:38
  that I have been
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: consuming for the last 10 years
• 1:05:48
  Since human design that taught me that there is no free will
• 1:05:53
  led me to the school
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_02: that was teaching that we need to train free will.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: So there is this what some of the esoterics call the true will which is
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: Really like the intention,
• 1:06:16
  the desire that gets born not out of the intellectual mind that
• 1:06:24
  feels separated
• 1:06:25
  from the world but from some part of you that is in resonance
• 1:06:32
  with the world that
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: is around you and I believe that in this case your will,
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: this true will
• 1:06:42
  of yours is always in resonance with the will of the world so
• 1:06:47
  and this is where we
• 1:06:48
  get into this point of the co-creation and this agency that I
• 1:06:55
  have agency the other
• 1:06:57
  subjects also have agencies and so we somehow start dance yeah
• 1:07:10
  co-creating together
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: but
• 1:07:13
  I feel that I still have the the emotional attachment to the
• 1:07:27
  idea of the free will
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: because you like after
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: Being impregnated with all these esoteric teachings I realized,
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_02: being honest with myself,
• 1:07:51
  first of all I do have this syndrome of God that I want to feel
• 1:08:00
  that I am able to
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: create freely
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: my own reality.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not there yet.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't learned how to do that.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's possible at all.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I would like to have this ability.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder actually how old this debate is about free will.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because I would assume
• 1:08:35
  that it's not very old it's more like you know like a modernity
• 1:08:41
  or maybe like
• 1:08:43
  whatever 300 years or 200 years because before that the history
• 1:08:52
  i don't think
• 1:08:53
  humans had an illusion that they had free will because they not
• 1:09:02
  only recognized but
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: lived
• 1:09:05
  it as a thread of their whole lives that they're so
• 1:09:10
  interconnected well especially
• 1:09:11
  people before the industrial society right you know the
• 1:09:18
  measuring by the moons
• 1:09:22
  shamanism and things like that it has had been about how do we
• 1:09:30
  you know keep this
• 1:09:35
  or stay in this web of life so that it keeps us staying in us
• 1:09:40
  but for that we also
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: need to know our place in sustaining it and there is
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll stay here.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I was actually thinking the same thing.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: Please finish.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so,
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_01: the way that you were describing different levels of consciousness,
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think those ways of,
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: or I'm dead and the world is dead.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second I'm alive, but the world is dead.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're very young.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like, you know, we're talking about
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: a very recent creation of modernity.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was literally also feeling.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: wait,
• 1:10:28
  I think that the reason why we're talking about this topic the
• 1:10:32
  way we're talking
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: about it is because,
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't know if this is true,
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: but I think free will
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: came from a monotheistic culture.
• 1:10:43
  Like when we went from many gods to one god and then religion
• 1:10:47
  was indoctrinated,
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's when this question,
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: this even inflection point of us versus the world became a thing.
• 1:11:00
  Which is maybe why,
• 1:11:02
  this is just a hunch,
• 1:11:04
  which is maybe why there's such...
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I feel a disconnection from this word, this even concept.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I feel a lot of resistance.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's not true.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I would agree.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: It has this engineered industrial feel somehow.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: But still,
• 1:11:37
  let me remind you that we have all these discussions in order
• 1:11:41
  to have a certain
• 1:11:45
  position regarding the question whether we are making decisions
• 1:11:49
  or not because what
• 1:11:52
  I want to follow this conversation is the conversation about
• 1:11:58
  how do we say no to
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_02: things
• 1:12:03
  and is it necessary to say no to things so i still feel that
• 1:12:13
  even in all this
• 1:12:15
  interconnectedness the agency that we manifest um gives us the
• 1:12:26
  possibility at least
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_02: you like
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Going back to this question of the marriage,
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_02: we took the decision of making this project a year ago.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_02: I like this concept that many,
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_02: not many people,
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_02: but some people are applying to relationships,
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean like the marriage,
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_02: that every day you decide
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you stay with this person or not.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Which has been really exhausting.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_01: It would have not been possible to stay with someone more than a week.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_02: I do agree.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: I do agree that the total mindfulness requires a lot of energy.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's why it's not necessary.
• 1:13:24
  But this is what the awareness is about It's actually about the
• 1:13:33
  realization that
• 1:13:34
  I'm not just following some predetermined paths That when I'm
• 1:13:41
  taking the actions,
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_02: it's my action,
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have the responsibility That I'm taking it,
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_02: it's not something that happened to me I have the agency
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 1:13:51
  because in order to build anything that's long term and
• 1:13:55
  requires more than you,
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_00: actually requires a certain control of variables,
• 1:14:01
  which means that if you've married someone and you're building
• 1:14:04
  a life with them,
• 1:14:06
  you have to take that decision and that whole concept off the
• 1:14:10
  table in order to
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: continue building this thing that you have committed to building.
• 1:14:17
  If you were to live life fully free like in terms of like flow
• 1:14:21
  what's actually here
• 1:14:22
  now I don't even know how much would be buildable per se unless
• 1:14:27
  there's a bunch of
• 1:14:28
  other people that are on the same journey and some of them feel
• 1:14:33
  like continuing to
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: build this house that we will all occupy that day um
• 1:14:40
  The reason why we have to automate some decisions and take them
• 1:14:47
  out of our
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_00: consciousness is because of the building aspect.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we go to the concept of neuroplasticity,
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: that window of neuroplasticity in the adult age,
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: you have to apply really conscious effort for that window to be
• 1:15:11
  Activated Open Otherwise Open Exactly And the reason behind
• 1:15:15
  that is that you know
• 1:15:18
  when you reach a certain stage or you reach a certain age there
• 1:15:22
  is some mission
• 1:15:24
  that you are there to do because you know we live in a society
• 1:15:29
  we live in an
• 1:15:30
  interconnected world and so you actually are not supposed to be
• 1:15:35
  changing your
• 1:15:36
  Opinion right and left and to be like flowing you are supposed
• 1:15:40
  to be building and
• 1:15:42
  supporting some things exactly yeah you are supposed to but
• 1:15:47
  this is not the life in
• 1:15:48
  flow that we are learning to live in well but we're also not
• 1:15:54
  living in a wandering
• 1:15:55
  culture like you know the wanderers of the world I think are
• 1:16:01
  way more in the flow
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_00: of life because they don't have to build right they just like
• 1:16:07
  Maybe they temporarily built out their caravan But then they
• 1:16:14
  just like back up and
• 1:16:15
  go and travel the world based on whatever the pool is and their
• 1:16:19
  internal needs But
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_00: when you're born into the type of society we're born into
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: But we also talked about divergence and convergence, right?
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a stage, you know, you diverge and then you converge.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there are cycles for everything.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's also this concept that,
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_01: you may,
• 1:16:48
  let's say you do have a soul as something that you need to
• 1:16:53
  learn about your place
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_01: in the web of life.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, you know, it is, it lives
• 1:17:01
  in different times and different ages and different
• 1:17:06
  circumstances and different
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_01: cultures and different societies.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So how and what you do is actually,
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:17:15
  how you orient yourself and that interconnectedness going back
• 1:17:19
  to the agency,
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a way to flow in that as well.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, you have this, like,
• 1:17:32
  design that this is what you're uniquely suited to do yet how
• 1:17:39
  you arrive there and
• 1:17:41
  what it looks like this is not you know um predetermined so it
• 1:17:47
  is so we're still
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_01: making decisions you flow if you synchronize with that rhythm of that
• 1:17:55
  let's say design or soul and then like this is what flow is you
• 1:18:01
  synchronizing with
• 1:18:02
  the grand scheme of your life which is not you know which
• 1:18:11
  actually doesn't feel
• 1:18:12
  like it is tying you and it is forcing you but it feels like it
• 1:18:18
  is opening you up
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_01: and it is bringing out
• 1:18:24
  You know things that make you feel ecstatic in the world I
• 1:18:30
  agree and disagree with
• 1:18:31
  it because it does feel like liberation when you allow yourself
• 1:18:38
  to go in flow with
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_02: it but before you need to make this leap of faith
• 1:18:47
  And leave your previous patterns where you have learned that I
• 1:18:53
  can impose my will
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_02: on the world,
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_02: on my life,
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_02: and everything depends on me So to release the control,
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_02: it requires an effort,
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_02: the initial release of the control
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it requires a decision.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_02: not always,
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_02: because sometimes when you resist releasing the control for too long,
• 1:19:19
  the life may take the decision for you and then you end up in
• 1:19:22
  the hospital and you
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_02: can't do anything about it.
• 1:19:26
  But I remember,
• 1:19:28
  for example,
• 1:19:29
  from my experience,
• 1:19:32
  going with the flow of human design
• 1:19:37
  it was very exciting it did feel liberating but at the same
• 1:19:41
  time it did require
• 1:19:42
  effort it was my decision to try to follow this pattern instead
• 1:19:48
  of the patterns
• 1:19:49
  that i was used to i wasn't saying that it doesn't like require
• 1:19:55
  effort because in
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_01: the flow right flow is not about just you know just ecstatic
• 1:20:07
  being carried by the wave because you know life and flow
• 1:20:12
  actually means that there
• 1:20:13
  are things that don't feel easy at all actually and maybe it's
• 1:20:19
  even you know like
• 1:20:24
  they feel harder than when you are just going with the flow of
• 1:20:31
  life and society as
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_01: it is right now that is probably easier
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_02: My question is,
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_02: because the ultimate question that I want us to have an answer for is,
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_02: are we making decisions or are we not making decisions?
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, are we not past linear answers?
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, I am okay with the answer we are and we are not.
• 1:21:07
  I'm okay with that because in the answer we are making
• 1:21:13
  decisions and at the same
• 1:21:14
  time we are not making them there is still part when we are
• 1:21:17
  making decisions this
• 1:21:18
  part of the agency because if we're not making decisions at all
• 1:21:22
  the following
• 1:21:25
  question about the convergence doesn't make any sense because
• 1:21:28
  nothing depends on us
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think the problem is not decision I think the problem is we
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_00: That I make decisions What is I in that equation?
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_00: What are we referring to?
• 1:21:47
  It's like it could be a million different things That are
• 1:21:50
  actually that I That is
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_00: making the decision But the way we're approaching this question Is from a
• 1:21:56
  monotheistic type of framework Which is why there's a problem
• 1:22:00
  with it Okay I mean,
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_00: this is how it's coming together for me right now
• 1:22:08
  It's a good point and actually it's a good bridge for
• 1:22:15
  continuation of the conversation.
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so now we're not talking about are we making decisions or not.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now we need to discuss who within us is making decisions.
• 1:22:28
  I like it and it might not even be who within us like there
• 1:22:32
  could be my future self
• 1:22:34
  is coming through really strongly in this specific moment in
• 1:22:37
  time and is providing
• 1:22:40
  the inputs required for this system to be like oh yeah we're
• 1:22:44
  gonna do this now so
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_00: who's the I and then there are different you know like it provides
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_01: There are different morphic fields that come from your family,
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_01: some come from,
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_01: this and some come from that and they're actively evolving.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mycelium layer.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:23:05
  I'm not arguing about all the interconnected web we're part of
• 1:23:10
  and that influences
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_02: at every moment and everything that will emerge in me,
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_02: around me and in the whole system.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to clarify for our,
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 1:23:23
  common understanding I think you're doing a good job We are
• 1:23:27
  arguing everything
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you
• 1:23:32
  we're not resisting you there is resistance in the field that's
• 1:23:36
  true let's just
• 1:23:37
  name it I feel some resistance coming up I don't know about the
• 1:23:41
  two of you but the
• 1:23:42
  resistance is for me not about what you're saying it's about
• 1:23:48
  I'm feeling the
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_00: resistance come up
• 1:23:53
  in relation to some of the ways these things are framed or
• 1:23:57
  phrased and you know
• 1:23:58
  what I mean and I'm picking up on like wait where's this
• 1:24:01
  incoherence coming from
• 1:24:02
  why am I having this resistance to this to even like the
• 1:24:06
  question of are we making
• 1:24:08
  this do you know what I mean so it's not resistance to you at
• 1:24:12
  all if anything
• 1:24:12
  you've really helped us I feel like you've helped us get to
• 1:24:16
  this like new I have
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_00: never
• 1:24:19
  Consciously ask the question who's the we that's the making the
• 1:24:23
  decision this is a
• 1:24:24
  like a new crystallized clarity for me that I think was there
• 1:24:28
  already in my field
• 1:24:29
  but I didn't like clearly you know put the stake in it until
• 1:24:34
  now no I also think
• 1:24:37
  that it is very very good question I like it a lot who who is
• 1:24:43
  making our decisions
• 1:24:45
  Yulia Bogdanova yulia Bogdanova yulia Bogdanova yulia Bogdanova
• 1:24:51
  yulia Bogdanova
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_02: yulia Bogdanova yulia Bogdanova yulia Bogdanova
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pronouncing this word correctly.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yay, you did it!
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_02: I want to ask you the last question as a matter of conclusion.
• 1:25:35
  I think I might intuit the answer that Yulia might give I'm not
• 1:25:40
  sure about Paulina
• 1:25:42
  because she gave me certain like the contradictory vibes
• 1:25:47
  regarding how do you feel
• 1:25:51
  about like not having free will but having the agency how do
• 1:26:00
  you feel about it?
• 1:26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And which you are you asking?
• 1:26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Which you wants to answer right now?
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's one me that wants to say fuck this, I don't like it.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's another me that says
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:26:29
  we're just here to jive and flow and see how we can express
• 1:26:34
  this system in the best
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_00: possible way with the variables given at each moment in time.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the two primary voices, but the first one is stronger.
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_00: It really doesn't like it that it doesn't get to influence everything.
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can relate to it.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yulia,
• 1:27:00
  do you have any part that doesn't like not having a free will
• 1:27:03
  or you are happy with
• 1:27:05
  SPEAKER_02: all this co-creation process?
• 1:27:15
  Happy always is not my state ever and I think the one thing
• 1:27:25
  that makes me excited
• 1:27:28
  and it's like okay let you know let me be decided on but you
• 1:27:37
  know me collaborating
• 1:27:39
  with those agents some of them some of whom I think if we
• 1:27:49
  collaborate they put me
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_01: into a space where
• 1:27:58
  things are non-linear and where things happen that defy the
• 1:28:05
  time and scale of our
• 1:28:07
  waking world and this opportunity of you know okay this is what
• 1:28:19
  it is about about
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_01: like traveling to places I would not
• 1:28:26
  have traveled to alone or any part maybe of me wouldn't have
• 1:28:30
  traveled alone but now
• 1:28:32
  you know like I don't know like with the tree with dreams or
• 1:28:37
  with I don't like some
• 1:28:40
  non-corporeal entities you know we could travel together they
• 1:28:46
  could take me yeah
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_02: it's it's a very
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Enticing Like Carlson that carries the Malish to the roof Hi Malish
• 1:29:11
  Those of us that don't know Carlson is a fictional character He
• 1:29:17
  was a funny little
• 1:29:19
  dude Because I don't know if he was a man I don't know what age
• 1:29:22
  he was But he had a
• 1:29:24
  propeller on his back So he was able to fly around And Malish
• 1:29:32
  is a little child
• 1:29:34
  basically I think he had a relationship with a child That he
• 1:29:38
  would pick up and
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_00: propel around Yeah
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 1:29:42
  basically it's a book by Astrid Lindgren and for whatever
• 1:29:47
  reason it's very popular
• 1:29:48
  in Russia and not very known in other parts of the world I
• 1:29:53
  don't know why because
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_02: it's a brilliant book Well,
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_02: to conclude I must say that on one hand I also find it really interesting
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Exciting and magical, rediscovering it.
• 1:30:10
  Every moment there's like signs of the world as the communion
• 1:30:17
  of subjects and that
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_02: I am a part of it.
• 1:30:23
  SPEAKER_02: But as I mentioned already,
• 1:30:26
  I do want to have a free will I do want to be able to exercise
• 1:30:32
  it and to create the
• 1:30:34
  whole reality just like I wanted So I will continue exploring
• 1:30:42
  these possibilities
• 1:30:44
  SPEAKER_02: and how it could be done So thank you very much for this
• 1:30:51
  interesting and educative discussion we will continue because
• 1:30:57
  we still need to
• 1:30:59
  answer the question how to make decisions between no and yes
• 1:31:03
  and oh but that's a
• 1:31:06
  SPEAKER_02: different question it's a different question but it's a related question
• 1:31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Related, but not really, but okay.
• 1:31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes,
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_02: because you started,
• 1:31:18
  SPEAKER_02: like when we were discussing how we make decisions,
• 1:31:21
  SPEAKER_02: you said,
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_02: wait,
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_02: it all depends on the framework because are we making decisions at all?
• 1:31:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it had to be discussed.
• 1:31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, we know that there are no linear questions.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're not looking for linear questions.
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're exploring all the possibilities.
• 1:31:42
  The invitation to our listeners is please share what you think
• 1:31:48
  and feel in regards
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_02: of the question of the free will.
• 1:31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Does it exist in your world?
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_02: How do you feel about it?
• 1:31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Are you making decisions and who in you is making decisions?
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_02: But we will continue talking about that.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, before we wrap, can we just quickly answer one question?
• 1:32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where did we spend the most time today during this episode?
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_00: In the mental field?
• 1:32:15
  SPEAKER_00: In the energetic field?
• 1:32:17
  I just want to locate each one of us in terms of how we showed
• 1:32:26
  up in this episode
• 1:32:27
  SPEAKER_00: today,
• 1:32:27
  SPEAKER_00: if you don't mind.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that okay?
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_02: I would say I think I felt rather holistic.
• 1:32:35
  so it's like the mind and the body and the field felt rather
• 1:32:41
  connected cool and you Yul?
• 1:32:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I did spend some time in my thinking um
• 1:33:06
  but then actually was there was flow where things were thought
• 1:33:17
  of for me I think I was
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Further away from my mind than I usually am,
• 1:33:30
  SPEAKER_00: although I had to try to access it more at some point,
• 1:33:34
  SPEAKER_00: but it was really an effort.
• 1:33:37
  And the rest of the time,
• 1:33:39
  I was almost further away from all of it,
• 1:33:43
  my mind,
• 1:33:44
  my body.
• 1:33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was somewhere a little bit more on the outside of my system today,
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_00: maybe more in the energy layer.
• 1:33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And also...
• 1:33:53
  in the field and with the birds there was lots of things acting
• 1:33:57
  upon me today but
• 1:34:02
  there was I yeah the flow was available So it's also a good
• 1:34:13
  question for our
• 1:34:14
  listeners too like where did you feel while listening to this
• 1:34:18
  conversation did you
• 1:34:19
  SPEAKER_02: feel in the body in the energy in your mind
• 1:34:23
  SPEAKER_01: in your emotional body.
• 1:34:26
  SPEAKER_02: So please,
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_02: please share with us your thoughts,
• 1:34:29
  SPEAKER_02: your energy,
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_02: your insights,
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_02: and we will see you in the next episode of Flow.
• 1:34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 1:34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And bye.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 1:34:42
  SPEAKER_01: How was it for you?
• 1:34:44
  We believe that the more people experience group flow together,
• 1:34:48
  the better off we all are.
• 1:34:50
  SPEAKER_01: More connected, more creative, more alive,
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_02: So let's expand the field If this episode resonated with you,
• 1:35:00
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• 1:35:05
  leave a comment or give us a rating We love you Do subscribe so
• 1:35:11
  you'll know when
• 1:35:11
  the next experiment comes out You can also connect with us on
• 1:35:15
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• 1:35:16
  SPEAKER_00: groupSubstack We'd love to hear from you Let's keep flowing together