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A Case Study in the Customer Journey Experience · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
0:04
the real estate agents is essential for success.
0:06
However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
0:11
With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
0:15
can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
0:20
Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
0:25
Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
0:31
And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
0:34
with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
0:39
To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
0:45
of the case study today.
0:47
You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
0:52
in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
0:56
Don't miss out.
0:57
Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
1:03
Hey, Listers, what's up, Jeff?
1:11
Zimfer.
1:12
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast.
1:15
Hey, we recently lost the milestone.
1:21
Yeah, it's podcast.
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And I want to just take a moment because we're going to be doing something special around
1:25
that coming up.
1:26
But the truth of the matter is I've just been too busy to do something or involved in
1:32
more, you know, or elaborate, if you will.
1:34
But we a couple episodes ago, I don't know if you noticed it, but we passed 200 episodes.
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It's right, 200 episodes.
1:46
That's amazing.
1:47
Amazing, if I dare say so myself, it's funny.
1:51
The time has gone by pretty fast.
1:53
And if any of you are ever stalker thinking about, you know, starting something, starting
1:58
a project in initiative, you know, whether it's a marketing related activity, starting
2:03
with video, getting started with a YouTube channel, whatever it is, right?
2:09
The point is just get started because, you know, obviously when I started this podcast,
2:15
it's the fifth year now, I didn't necessarily look forward and think, oh, one day I'll have
2:20
200 episodes.
2:21
I was simply putting one foot in front of the other, taking one step at a time.
2:26
Right?
2:27
Here's the key, you keep moving forward, you keep moving forward, even when it sucked the
2:33
early days of the podcast, even when I was trying to figure it out, even when I wasn't
2:37
thrilled with results, even when I wasn't sure where it was going on and on and on, right?
2:46
So thank you.
2:49
If you've been here for any point during the journey, whether you're new here, welcome,
2:53
I'm thrilled to have you, whether you've been here for a period of time or since the beginning,
2:58
since episode one, where's my Star Wars music?
3:05
We're going to do a prequel?
3:06
I don't know.
3:07
Maybe we should do a prequel.
3:09
All right.
3:10
So listen, before I get into this week's special guest, I want to go out and bring back for
3:15
a second time, I believe, it'll be up there coming five years, you know?
3:20
The other thing that we're going to be doing more of is talking about helping you achieve
3:30
the goal around your purchase business, and because I'm hearing a lot of people, right,
3:35
we're coming out of this refinance situation here, which is, of course, taking a lot of
3:41
our attention, time and resources, the purchase market is strong, a stronger than the Reef
3:46
High Market.
3:47
Yes, we've got issues with inventory, inventory, and buyers offers accepted.
3:51
But once again, in my Facebook group, right, for mortgage marketing radio, which if you're
3:55
not a member of, go check it out on Facebook, mortgage marketing radio, you know, one of
4:00
the questions that is asked when you come into join, which you have to ask, answer the
4:05
questions to join.
4:06
Don't be one of those people who just blow by the questions and submit and think you're
4:10
going to get in.
4:12
You're not used to go back and message people and say, hey, Bill, you know what, you forgot
4:18
to answer the questions coming in.
4:21
Well, now I don't even do that anymore.
4:23
I'm like, if you can't take 30 seconds to answer three questions, that's not the group
4:27
for you.
4:28
Okay.
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But go for it, check it out and complete the questions.
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But my point in that little high rate is the 80% of the time, when I ask in those questions,
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what's your number one challenge, 80% of the time people share, hey, how do I get more
4:46
realtor relationships?
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How do I go deeper?
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How do I get more consistent referrals, right, with realtor relationships?
4:56
And well, that's not the only thing we do, we talk about in that group or in the other
5:00
things that I do.
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Obviously, I'm big on digital marketing and so forth and if you haven't picked up the
5:03
book yet, you know, make sure you do that, disrupt or die, you can find that on Amazon.
5:09
But are you one of those law officers who's looking for more effective means of contacting
5:14
realtors, reaching realtors, adding value to realtors, differentiating and earning referrals,
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building real relationships and meeting flow relationships?
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If you are, we would encourage you to listen closely to the next 60 seconds because I'm
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going to share with you a story from somebody who was on the podcast as well last year.
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His name is Chris Apagil and he's with Movement Mortgage out of Carolinas and he is a big
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believer in teaching agent classes and has done so for a number of years.
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He leverages the classes that provided by me to him and what he told me was of the last
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class that he did, which was we have a class that's turnkey and ready to go.
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It's called how to get your buyers off or accepted.
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We also have another one that's called 10 ways to get more listings in a low inventory
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market.
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He's showing up in his market over Zoom and we're showing, we teach people how to do
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it over Zoom virtually and all that stuff and how to virtually invite people of the last
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class that he did a week ago.
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He got six apps, six referrals that led to six apps following that class.
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He does the class pretty consistently because he looks at the class as a cold call.
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For those of you that might be cold calling agents or you don't want to call agents, well,
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what you could do is what Chris does, which is host a free educational class that puts
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him in front of agents at scale and is the top of the funnel for him, the wide net strategy
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through.
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Then he follows a process that's laid out about sifting and sorting, driving conversations
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where agents just book time on your calendar via the link, you give them.
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Now what you've got over the course of 30 days is you have a system to deliver you agent
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conversations every single month like clockwork.
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My question is, if you're one of the 80% who wants better, more effective process for
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realtor engagement and conversation and conversion, what are you doing?
7:27
What do you lead with?
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Find me out, you'll lead with, you know, we close in six days, where do you lead with
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something that's different and that changes the dynamic and puts you in a positive light
7:38
and actually puts you in a position of control, right?
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Maybe you'd want to check that out further.
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You like Chris, get six apps from one class.
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I know last year his business was approximately $90 billion and I'm going source of purchase
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business for him is through agent classes.
8:00
So if you want to learn more, you can go check out mortgagemarketing.pro.
8:03
There's a brief video we've put up there.
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The thing is pretty for Zoom, virtual delivery, right?
8:11
Walk you through, show you how to do that, the PowerPoint, speaker notes, handouts, any
8:16
additional freebies and downloads and checklists and social media images and all that
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goes with creating awareness, helping you become known and changing the conversation with
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your local real estate agents, mortgagemarketing.pro, check it out.
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All right, that's the transition over to my special guest on this episode is a good friend
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from way back in the day.
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I don't know, 15 plus years ago we've we met each other.
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As a matter of fact, speaking of classes, that was one of the early things to do with her
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and I did when she was originating is we helped her put on a class in her local area.
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We had 85 agents show up in person and by the way, folks, as we come out of COVID more,
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the in person classes are coming back, right?
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And it's not that it's not one or the other.
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It's both.
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It's a hybrid.
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There will be people who attend the classes, there will be people who attend the Zooms.
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We can even get into, right, multi-streaming from your live in person class.
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But back to Sue.
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Sue's an amazing woman, right?
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She brings 30 years of financial services and mortgage industry experience.
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She is a strategic visionary.
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She's an incredible leader for many of us in this industry and I've just been a big fan
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of her for years.
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She is, she recently did something that I find incredibly interesting.
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She is the chief customer officer for total expert and they recently inducted a kind
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of a consumer experience study, case study, if you will, where she, her, her and her team
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at total expert basically took on the role of being a consumer and went through the process
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of purchasing house and completing the paperwork when I say purchasing house, what I mean
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is this is going through the initial paperwork process, right, of contacting a lender and
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experiencing what their customer journey is like.
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So and they did it with three different age groups, three different organizations, financial
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institutions and this discussion we have here on the podcast is us is talking about
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what they learned, what was good, what was bad, what was ugly and and also what does the
10:23
consumer really want from the customer journey and how can you take the ideas from this
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episode, this podcast today and you know, fly it to your customer journey because look,
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if you don't architect, if you don't design your customer experience, if you're leaving
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it to, you know, default or you know, it'll take care of itself, trust me.
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What you think is happening in your customer journey, probably isn't, you haven't checked
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in and audit it in some time.
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So I encourage you to check out this episode and make sure you follow Sue, we'll put a
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link to her, you know, profile on LinkedIn, we'll put a link to total expert in there,
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total expert students and amazing things in this industry as well.
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So without further ado, let's get into this week's show.
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Sue Woodard, welcome to the show.
11:08
Hey, I'm so glad to be here, Jeff.
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Good to connect again as we were talking previously on a, on a, on a conversation.
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Man, go back like 10, 15 years or so.
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Be going way way back back to the day for sure.
11:23
Yeah, and obviously I've been following you for obviously since then, but hey, listen,
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I didn't know this, but just in prepping for this 2018 woman of influence by housing
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wire, right?
11:34
Yes.
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Yes.
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Yes indeed.
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Yes indeed.
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Thank you.
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It was a great honor.
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And interestingly, 2018 is actually when I joined total expert as well.
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And this was the very first podcast I did after coming on board of total expert with
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Mania.
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That's crazy.
11:49
That's right.
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Look at this.
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It all comes full circle.
11:52
That does exactly.
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Circle of life.
11:54
Yeah.
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So obviously with your experience of total expert, you get to see a nice cross section
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of companies and processes and things like that.
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And I wanted to have you on because you recently did this thing called the experience experiment.
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Is that right?
12:06
Yes, it is.
12:07
Yeah.
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What is that all about?
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What did you do?
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It was pretty cool.
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You know, I mean, it was what we wanted to do was really, you know, find out what is
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the experience like for someone who is going out and inquiring about a mortgage and, you
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know, kind of, and especially if it was with an institution that they already had a relationship
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with, right?
12:26
Mm-hmm.
12:27
To see if they could tie the pieces together.
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A lot of different elements to it, but what we did is we actually got four employees inside
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of total expert.
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We got a Z, a boomer, a millennial, and an ex, and gave each of them a set of assignments
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and they reached out to three different lenders and, you know, kind of went through this experience
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with them and a bit of an experiment to see what the, what it would be like.
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What was the customer journey like?
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How did they feel?
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Did they feel like it was tailored to them?
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Did they all get the exact same experience, regardless, if they were Z or boomer, regardless
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of their interactions with this institution prior to that point, and it was a really interesting
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body of work that we took away from this because I think by and large, the takeaways were
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not shocking, and I'll never tell you the names of the institutions that we did this with.
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But the, the, the takeaways really were that there are a lot of gaps in that customer journey
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and in that customer experience.
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For somebody coming in new and inquiring and actually actively reaching out and saying,
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hey, I'm looking for information to see what happens next or maybe more importantly, Jeff,
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what didn't happen next was remarkable.
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And so it was a very interesting experiment.
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That's that's pretty neat how you did that with different age groups, you know, and so
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forth, just to see if there was an adjustment base.
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What are some of the key findings from that?
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Let's just start there.
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Like what stands out as like bright lights, like, oh my gosh, this is happening or not
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happening.
13:56
Yeah.
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A couple of things.
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I mean, one of the first ones was that even if it was an institution that someone had
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had a prior relationship with, there didn't seem to be any recollection that this is
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someone you should know that this is somebody who's already seen your system somewhere.
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Those dots did not get connected, which right away starts to make somebody feel aggravated
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in a little bit of a lack of trust of saying like, really, I've given you a bunch of information
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before, but you suddenly don't know who I am, okay?
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So that was a big one.
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The length of time that it took for the initial follow up was stunning to me because it's
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one of like kind of the basics of marketing, as you know, is generally the person that's
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going to respond fastest has a like 70 times higher rate of actually being the one who gets
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that, get that transaction and sometimes just the length of time that it took to have
14:44
somebody get back to them.
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And I will tell you that we actually did this at the end of 2019.
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This was not during 2020 when it was like, oh my gosh, you know, volume chaos, you know,
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COVID, it was actually before that.
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And so again, thinking about why is that?
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Why would it be such a slow response?
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And I would say beyond that, just as kind of the conversations progressed, there was actually
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one of the individuals who literally was looking for a mortgage.
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But somebody, they weren't just shopping, they actually were shopping for real.
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And they, you know, somebody could have gotten a transaction out of it.
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And just the gaps in, you know, the communications with them was again, rather stunning to me.
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And finally, I would say the content that was coming out to these folks who had inquired
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not very educational, not asking any, you know, questions, I mean, it was just again kind
15:39
of the content seems to be off, let alone, that it wasn't necessarily, you know, forget
15:44
about being tailored for the age group that it was, it didn't even feel like it was engaging
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educational content to try to learn a little bit more.
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But where are you at in your life?
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Why is this important?
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Is this your first time or 10th time?
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So a lot of really interesting takeaways that probably everybody listening could go, hmm,
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you know, could that have been us, you know?
16:03
Exactly.
16:04
Hey, yeah.
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And that's why I wanted to have this conversation in part is, is, you know, the takeaway is
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number one, you know, to audit your own customer experience.
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Like you had suggested on our, our earlier call is, um, do you have, you don't have somebody
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audit, right?
16:19
Your process, like a friend or relative or whatever, it's just like sit in and pretend you're
16:23
a customer and unbeknownst to your team and see what the, you know, the experiences
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like.
16:28
Yep.
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Yep.
16:30
Yep.
16:31
And I'll tell you, Jeff, that sometimes people complicate that, that process of auditing
16:34
the experience, you can audit your own experience and your own journey.
16:40
We actually did this at Total Expert where we said, what is it like for our customers?
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You know, once they're coming on board, why, you know, what does it feel like after that?
16:46
We mapped it out for each of the personas that we worked with and literally we used
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a huge wall and a bunch of post-it notes.
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And that's how we mapped out our customer journey and identified a lot of gaps.
16:57
It doesn't have to be complex.
16:59
Yeah.
17:00
For sure.
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And I think that's why I love talking about this is, you know, I use the word architect,
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you know, architect your customer experience because as you've already illustrated and
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you know, so well, is you have to actually map it out.
17:12
You actually actually have to give it some thought and process.
17:16
And visually, I think that makes sense.
17:17
Like you described to map that out on a visual thing, whether it's a whiteboard or sticky
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notes, whatever it is.
17:22
But yeah, when a call comes in, when a lead comes in, what happens from that point on,
17:27
right?
17:29
The other thing I would say is that you touched on this just a second ago, is whether
17:33
it's a friend or family member, what have you?
17:35
What about even just grabbing two of your leads that are coming in and saying, hey, you
17:39
know what, I would really like to use you as, you know, a sounding board for me, you
17:45
know, because I'm hoping we get the chance to work together through this whole process
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and take it all the way through.
17:49
But I would love to get your unvarnished feedback on, you know, where did you feel like
17:55
there should have been a communication that there wasn't one?
17:57
Where did you feel like the content that we were providing you wasn't quite on point?
18:01
Where did you feel like we kind of disappeared and you didn't know why?
18:04
And I think, man, you can just grab a couple actual customers, it wouldn't be a secret
18:09
shop.
18:10
But it would be, you know, and you don't even necessarily have to tell the whole rest
18:12
of your team.
18:13
But grab somebody and say, hey, let me learn from you.
18:17
Yeah, it's probably best that you don't tell your team, you know, it's like when the
18:21
big boss comes down, you know what I mean?
18:24
And kind of visits the, you don't know who it is, you know, the whole undercover billionaire
18:28
that whole thing.
18:29
Undercover boss, yeah.
18:30
Undercover boss.
18:31
Yeah, that's what it is.
18:32
You know, it's funny.
18:33
Earlier this morning, this is so timely as I did this post on LinkedIn that says a premium
18:37
price requires a premium story and sales process.
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And you know, people are always like, you know, LLs are like, oh my God, you know, I get
18:48
so price sensitive and, and, and, you know, the opening question is, what about, what's
18:52
your rates and all this kind of stuff?
18:54
And I know you, you know, you and I and, you know, being in the mortgage-coach community
18:56
with, you know, shout out to Dave Savage and all those people, you know, using education
19:01
as a process.
19:02
I think the word that came up when I heard you describe what you experienced during your
19:08
experience experiment is lack of humanness, lack of human touch, like my friend Mark
19:15
Schaefer, his book, Marketing Rebellion, his tagline is the most human company we'll
19:19
win.
19:20
Even with technology and automation, that's what's missing from that is the human element.
19:25
No, that's right.
19:26
It's, you know, I will tell you, we say a lot of times of total expert that the companies
19:29
and the brands that are going to win are the ones that can successfully combine technology
19:35
and that human, human interaction, the real human interaction to build those experiences
19:39
that, that really promote that, that trust in relationship that is spot on.
19:44
So do you think there's enough people thinking about this consciously right now or just, hey,
19:48
we're just so damn busy, we're trying to survive?
19:49
I think, exactly.
19:52
You know, it was, it was interesting, one of the things, it was a study that came up
19:55
from Stratmore recently and it was showing the NPS or the Net Promotors for people during
20:00
2020 that had gone through a purchase versus a refinance and how satisfied they were.
20:05
Very interesting that the people that were purchased or excuse me refinance had a much
20:11
higher NPS than the purchase transactions, right?
20:15
So that tells you that, you know, the purchase where there's emotions are a little higher,
20:20
a life event is happening, not just a financial one, that they weren't getting enough, okay?
20:26
So I thought that was a very interesting take away.
20:28
The refinance, again, tends to, you know, can make a massive difference in the life-changing
20:32
for someone.
20:33
We just have this cool story, one of our customers, and this is one of thousands, you
20:36
know, somebody were saving $600 a month, life-changing, was able to make, you know, do totally
20:41
different things in their life because of this.
20:43
And it tends to be generally less emotional.
20:45
It's a financial transaction versus a home purchase typically means, you know, something
20:50
in your life is happening.
20:51
There's a life experience.
20:52
Somebody's getting married.
20:53
Somebody's getting divorced.
20:54
Somebody died.
20:55
Somebody was born and like, there's something going on, right?
20:57
And we're not paying enough attention to it.
20:59
So I do think as we head into, you know, the year ahead, 2021, I'm sure we've all seen
21:05
the numbers from the Mortgage Bankers Association, but really saying volume overall is going
21:09
to drop.
21:10
But purchase volume is going to come up and we have to reevaluate that because right
21:15
now, customers are telling us they didn't get, they didn't get enough love from us last
21:20
year.
21:21
And they were going through that purchase transaction.
21:23
Hmm.
21:24
What do you think people are looking for most then?
21:26
Let's take purchases.
21:27
What are they looking for most in that transaction?
21:31
You know, I think there's a couple of different things.
21:33
And again, it's a little, and some, you know, some institutions do certain parts of it
21:37
better than others, right?
21:38
But I think all of us, everybody, you know, always up our game in terms of what our, what
21:43
our journey is.
21:44
But I think, you know, when you think about the purchase, you know, the purchase transaction
21:48
and knowing that something emotional is going on, first of all, I would just encourage
21:51
people to remember that something really emotional is probably going on.
21:55
We are in a business of stories, right?
21:57
I mean, everything you purchase, let's say as well, like with the, with the low inventory
22:02
and the multiple bids and all that, like talk about even more emotions, right?
22:05
That's right.
22:06
That's right.
22:07
The entry to the wind, I lose, I'm devastated, oh my God, right?
22:11
So all of that just to get an offer accepted.
22:14
And then beyond that, you know, layer in the uncertainty that everybody is feeling just
22:19
about the world and life right now.
22:22
People are uncertain in the best of situations about, you know, we forget, I think sometimes
22:26
the mortgage industry that most of America has a lot of concerns about their jobs, unless
22:30
you're in the mortgage industry or work presume, you know, there's, there's maybe some
22:34
concerns, right?
22:35
So there's people that are one degree away from the folks we're talking to.
22:39
There are a lot of pain, you know, their friends and family members.
22:41
So there's uncertainty.
22:42
There's a massive lack of just trust.
22:44
And I think a lot of, I don't know, just maybe combativeness is the best way to say it
22:50
in the country right now, right?
22:51
It's where we're very divided.
22:53
So there's this whole other layer of emotions going on where people are, they're tired,
22:59
they're sick of being locked up there.
23:01
You know, I mean, so there's all that going on.
23:03
So, you know, what I would say, Jeff, is that there's a big part of it that really is
23:08
what you said earlier.
23:09
It's finding the right ways.
23:10
Using technology to automate all the things you can, but to make the time and to create
23:16
those opportunities for the human being to show up and reach out with that hand for
23:20
somebody who actually is really looking for that human voice in the midst of their, their
23:25
transaction.
23:26
Hmm.
23:27
Yeah, I love what you said in terms of taking a couple of clients or leads in and doing
23:32
the audit process with them.
23:35
You know, I think about like there's so many issues in play here that the emotional,
23:39
the things, people have thin skin based on, you know, all these stuff that's going on
23:44
in the world right now.
23:45
What about, what about the process with referral partners?
23:49
That might be a little bit of a pivot from our conversation, but I know you have a lot
23:52
of experience.
23:53
Yeah.
23:54
So should we also architect a process there?
23:57
Totally.
23:58
It should be, in my opinion, if you're mapping this out on your wall, whether you're using
24:02
the post at notes, or if you want to be a little bit more techy, whatever, map it out
24:06
for all the people that you're working with, not just the consumers, but absolutely your
24:10
referral partners.
24:11
I would even say your internal team is another group of people that, you know, we're working
24:16
with our operations team differently.
24:17
I mean, you know, originators think they, they have it tough, my goodness.
24:21
I mean, the operations kind of the house.
24:23
Right.
24:24
And we've later been in situations before where you can swing by their office and buy
24:27
them lunch, you know, on a Friday, and show your appreciation, well, how are you showing
24:30
your appreciation now?
24:32
What does it look like to be part of your operations staff?
24:34
And I would map out that journey as well, or that experience, right?
24:38
But to get back to your question in terms of referral partners, I think the same thing.
24:43
I bet if we took an NPS of all of our real estate agent partners out there, I don't know if
24:48
it would be that awesome.
24:49
You know, again, some companies and some individuals, you know, certainly always do better than
24:53
others.
24:54
But you can't help it when you're standing in the money machine of refinances.
24:57
You can't help that some of those other things are going to slip.
25:01
But now is the time to really set aside time and even just carve out a chunk in your day.
25:07
I'm always such a big fan of time blocking, but time block out some time to make those
25:12
outreaches to the existing partners that you work with.
25:15
Because if you're not somebody else's, there's someone off the corner that's coming at
25:19
them.
25:21
But I think it's remembering, you know, thinking about what tools do you have in your
25:24
arsenal to be able to really help support and build their business?
25:28
And also how can you reach out to them on a personal and a human level?
25:32
Because again, sometimes we, I think a lot of us, I always had very close, you know,
25:36
personal, professional relationships with the real estate agents I worked with.
25:40
But just also remembering their human, their living in this world too.
25:46
It is not just, you know, everybody's in a weird state and being really sensitive to what
25:50
they might be going through and asking open-ended questions and finding out where they're
25:54
at.
25:56
And it's not about saying, oh, we got the best rates and products and, you know, whatever.
26:00
It's like, you know, where are you at and how can I meet you where you're at and actually
26:04
help you with what you might need?
26:06
Yeah, I try and, you know, it's difficult because it's easy for us, me, I guess, to sit
26:15
here and pontificate.
26:16
And then on coaching calls with L.O.'s and stuff like that and talk about, you know,
26:20
architecting and designing your process and it's kind of like, you know, doing it while
26:24
the plane's flying and you're also serving drinks and you're also, you know what I mean?
26:28
Yeah.
26:29
Like, doing, like, all this stuff at once and now it's like, and I have to also like architect
26:34
this incredible customer experience process, I mean, it sounds, I guess the, the motion
26:41
that comes up comes up for me as like, I talk about it a lot, but I don't see a lot
26:44
of people do it.
26:45
Yeah.
26:46
Well, what I would say is I break it almost into three parts and in some cases you do
26:51
just have to block out time for this, but I would say it is, you know, first of all,
26:55
you have to define it like we're talking about what is, what do you want that journey
26:59
and experience to look like, whether you are a consumer coming to work with me, you
27:02
are a referral partner and find and whether you're a prospective consumer that I'd like
27:07
to come work with me, whether you are a prospective real estate agent, whether you're
27:11
one of my operations staff.
27:12
I mean, it doesn't take quite honestly that much time.
27:14
You start putting it up and it maps itself up pretty quickly, but you have to define what
27:19
is the ideal experience that you'd like to have happen, right?
27:23
Then you have to operationalize it, you know, you just have to decide, okay, you know,
27:27
which pieces am I going to do first and how do I operationalize it?
27:29
You know, when I, yeah, yes, exactly right.
27:33
And you know, when I was originating, you know, I mean, I was a single mom and, you know,
27:39
running my business and doing these things, you know, I mean, it's like in lots of people
27:41
listening, you're probably in that same situation and I'm very aware that everybody listening
27:45
to this, you know, if you're in the mortgage industry, you're buried, you're exhausted,
27:49
you're dealing with all of the same things I'm talking about.
27:52
You're sick of being, you know, probably inside and all of the, you know, drama going
27:56
on in the world, right?
27:57
So you've got that human element with it for yourself and your family as well.
28:03
But you can operationalize it and sometimes you just have to chunk it down, you know,
28:06
the third piece is really just to take the action, prioritize it and take those small actions.
28:12
It does not, it does not have to be overwhelming.
28:16
You see the gaps pretty quickly and easily when you start to map it out or if you do that
28:21
exercise, or maybe you have a not so secret shopper going through your experience, finding
28:26
up where you can level up the game and then just literally saying, you know, what can I
28:30
use?
28:31
And I'm obviously a huge advocate of utilizing technology everywhere that you can.
28:35
Back when I was originating, the only thing that was available was apps, I like, I know,
28:40
I know I'm dating myself horribly, but that's what was available.
28:44
So that's what I used and listen, listen, we're cut from the cloth there.
28:48
If you survived it before Facebook and texting and all that kind of stuff, right?
28:53
I know.
28:54
I know exactly.
28:55
Like, remember the bag falls or like we first got our first back machine.
28:57
And now when somebody's like, let me fact, she's something you're like, what?
29:00
So yes, exactly, it's a new world, but that's my point is that it's not about you have
29:07
to do all these things, you know, on your own and it's all like you have to manually do
29:12
all these things.
29:13
There's amazing technology out there for yourself and your partners to be able to automate
29:19
all of these things to elevate you.
29:21
So it's your highest and best use of your time is if you do something in fact repeatedly,
29:26
if you do something more than three times, you know, it's probably something that can
29:30
be automated.
29:31
I would just guess it's only an app for it, right?
29:33
Automate all you can to free up your time to make those really important human connections.
29:37
Yeah, I agree with you.
29:39
And at the same time, I want to put a little caveat in there and some people have heard
29:43
me tell this story before of my personal mortgage experience when I moved here to Vegas
29:47
about three years ago, it's just the awareness of don't expect technology to replace everything,
29:57
like don't expect technology to replace the A, the human connection and then B, where
30:01
people rely too heavily, they want to automate everything, you know what I mean?
30:05
And they want to just remove themselves completely from the process.
30:08
I mean, my quick story for those who haven't heard it before is like, when I came here,
30:12
we were looking about, it was a classic situation and we're like, oh, we're looking at houses.
30:16
We're out on a Saturday.
30:17
We find the house we love.
30:18
You know, wife wants to make an offer, boom, on the spot.
30:20
I'm like, well, wait a minute, I'm not pre-approved or anything, you know?
30:24
And I'm like, well, dammit, I've got to get a pre-approval today.
30:28
It's Saturday.
30:29
So I, you know, interviewing the realtor in a club course, I know a bunch of lenders,
30:34
but you know, I was like, all right, let's play the game.
30:37
Who do you know?
30:38
Because I didn't really know anybody locally.
30:40
Who do you know for a lender?
30:41
There's a game of three names.
30:42
I don't have to tell you that the experience for me was, was dismal.
30:46
I just give you the one highlight from it of the one place that I did complete a complete
30:51
application, meaning assets, connected bank accounts and everything.
30:54
It looked like two hours, you know, one of those mobile apps.
30:59
Here's the thing.
31:00
I mean, I filled out that thing on Saturday, made it clear that we need a pre-approval to
31:04
make an offer.
31:05
Monday comes.
31:06
First of all, I didn't hear it from anybody on Saturday.
31:08
Oh my gosh.
31:09
See?
31:10
Right.
31:12
I don't have it, but I have this and nothing.
31:19
Who's day comes?
31:20
I get a call from the assistant who I don't even know who she is in her name, right?
31:25
And an email.
31:26
And then I get this automated video email that says, welcome to the so and so team.
31:31
The next step in your loan process is, and I'm like, loan process, what are you talking
31:36
about?
31:37
I haven't even spoken to anybody yet.
31:39
So for all you peeps wanting to automate everything, heads up, I'm not a believer in
31:44
automating everything.
31:45
No, and I absolutely am in alignment with you.
31:49
I believe that there's been talk, you and I both been around the block here in the
31:54
mortgage industry, but since I've been in, I've been in 30 years now.
31:58
And I remember early on, people are like, oh, you know, technology is going to take over
32:02
the loan officer and we're like, come on.
32:03
And I still believe to this day, and I'm telling you this from, you know, I work in a technology
32:08
company.
32:09
So there's no bigger fan than me.
32:10
But I'm here to tell you that technology is not here to replace the loan officer.
32:15
I do, however, believe that the loan officers leveraging technology to free up their time
32:21
to do exactly what you just described to pick up that phone and be there for you at the
32:24
human time when you needed it to be automated, all the other stuff so that can happen.
32:29
Those loan officers will replace the ones who aren't using any technology at all.
32:33
I do believe that.
32:34
No, 100%.
32:35
Yeah, and that goes back to kind of like, I'm curious if there was other, or other findings
32:39
or awareness you have about different age groups, Gen X, Z Y, whatever, you know what I mean,
32:44
in terms of preference, because I was just pulling up some, just to confirm on the internet
32:48
here is, and you know this, but of the biggest frustrations people have in buying a house,
32:54
one of those is understanding the process.
32:56
Yep.
32:57
Yep.
32:58
You know, so any findings that differ across age groups or totally?
33:00
Yes.
33:01
So I would tell you a couple of different things.
33:03
What you just said was exactly spot on education is key.
33:08
It is absolutely critical, and even if it is somebody who's been through the process
33:11
a few times, particularly if they're purchasing, they want to know what's going on.
33:15
How does it work?
33:16
But, you know, so there is a level of just, as I said, there's a level of education that
33:20
I feel like sometimes, again, when you're in this industry, you almost forget, I think
33:25
sometimes, because like, well, everybody must know this.
33:27
It's DTI.
33:28
Doesn't everybody know that?
33:29
Exactly.
33:30
Exactly.
33:32
So there's a lot of things that even think about the terms we throw around, like, you
33:36
know, home and money and approval.
33:39
These are massively emotionally loaded words for most human beings, and we're just like,
33:43
you know, throwing them around like whatever.
33:45
And we forget sometimes what it's like on the other side of that table.
33:49
And I think it's so fascinating you were talking about your own experience, right?
33:52
And I will tell you, I actually closed yesterday on a mortgage.
33:58
And it was a beautiful combination and orchestration between human, human at the time I needed
34:06
a human and digital and giving me the education and constant information of I knew exactly what
34:11
was going on at all times.
34:14
And I won't name them.
34:16
It was one of our customers at Total Expert, but I won't say the other, the other couple
34:19
hundred would be mad at me.
34:21
But, what they're leveraging your technology, right?
34:24
Totally.
34:25
Yeah.
34:26
It was a beautiful thing.
34:27
It was a beautiful experience.
34:28
But I do think part of it is, as you just said, it is education and not losing sight of
34:33
the fact that it's better to overeducate and to undereducate and just, you know, realizing
34:40
that most people, just because they are a doctor, a lawyer, an architect, you know, whatever
34:45
they are, amazing thing in their life, it doesn't mean that they know anything about,
34:49
you know, their finances might be a wreck and tack lots of them actually are.
34:53
We've all seen.
34:54
Oh, yeah.
34:55
For sure.
34:56
Yeah.
34:57
So I do think that education is a really, really key part of it.
35:01
And so that's part of, I think, looking at your experience is taking a step back, looking
35:05
at all of your content and saying, is this, is this educational, you know, and is it
35:10
helping?
35:11
Yeah.
35:12
So speaking of technology, here's what I've seen some L.O.s do is on the educational
35:15
piece.
35:16
Like you said earlier, like if you're repeating the same thing three times or if you're
35:20
getting the same questions over and over again, I've seen L.O.'s set up an FAQ page on
35:24
their website, which is this perhaps a series of short videos.
35:26
It's you or somebody else, they could even be animated videos on just right.
35:30
Here's the process of buying a home.
35:32
It's a journey, you know, the whole infographic thing, all that kind of stuff to whatever degree,
35:38
this is where I think you could leverage technology is you're doing a relationship building
35:41
the human connection piece, you're educating your obviously establishing is why I should
35:45
choose you and build trust with you.
35:47
But then when it comes to like, you know, well, what about, what is that scroll and what
35:49
about, uh, impounds and this and, you know what I mean, all that stuff, I think, could
35:53
be automated.
35:54
You know, Ben?
35:55
Yeah.
35:56
Absolutely.
35:57
And, you know, the other thing that you asked is if it was different kind of by generation.
36:01
So interestingly, I think there was a feeling for a long time in the industry that the,
36:07
you know, the millennials and now the C's don't want to talk to people, right?
36:11
They want to make a hands-off.
36:12
Right.
36:13
And it's not true.
36:14
It's not true.
36:15
Interestingly, the millennials and I don't know all the studies are in on Z's yet, but
36:19
they tend to, you know, absolutely want to talk to a human being, you know, partly because
36:25
many of them, you know, the younger millennials and the Z's haven't done this before, right?
36:30
They haven't done it before and they definitely want to talk to a human being and they want
36:33
to get that information.
36:34
It's a generation of people that interestingly have, unlike probably my generation X and
36:39
the boomers, we tend to maybe sometimes not go to our parents or what have you and say
36:45
we can figure, you know, the stuff out.
36:47
The millennials are closer to their parents, right?
36:49
Some of them are still living in their basement and so they tend to be more likely to reach
36:55
up for counsel, reach up for guidance, reach up for advice.
36:58
And so it was interesting.
36:59
It's been interesting to watch that data over time saying that the human interaction is
37:04
still critically important.
37:06
However, where it is different and this won't be a surprise to anybody is the, you know,
37:12
the channel via what you're communicating and being sensitive to how does someone want
37:16
to communicate with you?
37:17
Do they want to communicate via, you know, do they want to be a text?
37:20
Do they want to be an email?
37:21
Do they want to be a, you know, do they want to get phone calls?
37:25
Do they, and there's, there's only so many, I think, permutations you can have.
37:29
But this is why I think like really investing in a technology, for example, that allows
37:34
you to be intelligent with your, you know, how you create your journey and have somebody
37:38
that they're like, you know, text is best to switch them to a text-based journey.
37:42
And if they say, hey, email is really right on so that we're, you know, I'm able to
37:46
forward this easily to so it's great.
37:49
Then you can shift to that, you know, the, the channel is important and the channel does
37:53
tend to be a little bit different by, by demographic, probably in unsurprising ways.
37:58
Everything is text, you know, when on, on definitely the, you know, the millennial and Z side,
38:03
whereas, you know, XM boomers tend to want, you know, the emails and, you know, interspersed
38:11
with those phone calls.
38:12
And so it's just being, but being aware of the, the channels that you're communicating
38:16
to and being able to keep those channels tied together, I think is, it's another important
38:21
element to consider.
38:23
Oh, 100%.
38:24
You know what's interesting to me as I, as I interview a bunch of LOs, it's always interesting
38:29
to me how diverse it is in terms of how people build their business.
38:33
Like, like one woman on clubhouse the other day, this is one woman on clubhouse and she's
38:38
been in the business 15 years and she says, I have never met a client face to face ever
38:43
in 15 years.
38:44
I was like, wow.
38:45
And then the other end of this background, people who build these practices, where you
38:48
come in and you sit down and you've got your name placard and, you know, all that kind
38:53
of stuff.
38:54
And we love to do the face to face.
38:55
And there's people who still, who still ask to meet face to face.
38:59
And now we've got COVID that we're dealing with that and you couldn't meet face to face.
39:02
And it's like, it's like, how's this all going to spill out?
39:05
You know, what, I think that's the point, I guess, that I would want to reiterate for
39:08
people listening is ask, like, how do you prefer, however, like, if that, if that doesn't
39:14
fit your model, let's say you're that woman who's like, I never meet people face to face.
39:18
Like, how do you, how do you work through that?
39:20
You know?
39:21
Yeah.
39:22
No.
39:23
And I, you're so smart.
39:24
Ask.
39:25
You know, I just was talking to somebody recently where we were talking about data and
39:28
just how important data is and the ability to get at data, you know, so that you don't
39:32
have, you're not asking people the same questions that you should know, if they've been your
39:35
customer before.
39:36
So we're talking about data and, you know, going down this conversation about all of the,
39:41
you know, artificial intelligence and all of the things that you can learn over data
39:45
and all these things.
39:46
But there is a huge benefit in simply asking people a question.
39:50
I think sometimes we've gotten so far down this road of saying, how do we forecast and
39:54
predict out of, you know, all these things?
39:56
How can we know these things about people?
39:57
And it's like, hey, you could just ask those people, where are you at right now?
40:01
You know, which most describes you?
40:02
Are you, you know, thinking about, you know, a second home, are you thinking about starting
40:07
a family?
40:08
Are you thinking about, you know, opening your own business, like, ask those questions?
40:11
We don't have, because we don't ask.
40:13
So it's a simple but brilliant.
40:16
And speaking of asking, this reminds me of, like, in working with referral partners, you
40:19
know, I've been doing a lot of coaching on, like, um, all those two, all listing agents.
40:25
You know, uh, when you have the buyer, even buyer offer, let alone buyer contract.
40:29
Um, and it's interesting how many people still don't do that, uh, and again, I'm a believer
40:34
in automation and let's, you know, automated updates and status updates and stuff like
40:38
that.
40:39
Yeah.
40:40
But I think let's, let's pivot and based on also on the relationship, like, with that
40:42
listing agent situation, look, that's a future referral opportunity there.
40:46
Okay.
40:47
There's a lot of different peripherals from that.
40:49
But, you know, I'll often ask law officers, hey, do you do status updates, right?
40:53
And I'd say seven out of 10 times, they're like, oh, yeah, you know, those automated things
40:57
go out.
40:58
You know what I mean?
40:59
And I'm like, no, no, no, that's not what I'm talking about.
41:02
Yeah.
41:03
The old school traditional right, Tuesday, what's up?
41:05
This is Sue.
41:06
Just want to give you an update on the Smith, right?
41:08
All that stuff.
41:09
Yeah.
41:10
Yeah.
41:11
You know, it's interesting.
41:12
I remember, so something I read and won a time Duncan's books, um, you know, years and
41:16
years ago.
41:17
But I remember he was talking about, about this topic, you know, asking, you know, kind
41:20
of asking.
41:22
And it was about, you know, typically people do a post-closing survey.
41:26
How did we do?
41:27
Where could we have done better?
41:28
And I remember talking to the point of saying, why are we waiting until it's over?
41:33
And we can't change course to ask how people are doing.
41:36
And he was talking about the brilliance of having a midstream survey of asking the middle,
41:41
you know, whether it is certain, you know, automated where people may be more honest than
41:45
they might be to, but ask the question, how's it going with the realtor?
41:48
How's it going with us?
41:50
You know, what do you need from us?
41:51
Where are we missing?
41:52
And you have the chance to course correct, rather than somebody leaving salty at the end,
41:57
and it's too late to fix anything.
41:59
Yeah.
42:00
And my point about the listening agent thing was, um, elbows should be asking the listening
42:05
agent, which your preferred method of getting updates, because maybe they don't want the
42:08
call, right?
42:09
And maybe they're not ever going to answer their phone.
42:12
Maybe they're just happy with text or maybe I'm cool with the email that's fun.
42:16
But this goes through our point earlier about ask, right?
42:18
People have different ways they like to, you know, experience something.
42:21
So I don't think we can do, you know, um, the same recipe for everybody.
42:26
And you learn a lot because it may be that kind of to your point earlier, if you, if you're
42:30
a, a loan officer that you never get together with people, it's not like you're going to
42:34
say, well, let me ask.
42:35
And then they say, well, I want to get together with you and go, oh, my chain, my whole
42:38
business.
42:39
But it might just inform you of, you know, what, I've got to be a machine and it's got
42:42
to look, you know, kind of like this, but I need to know, does this work for this person
42:46
because I may not be able to, you know, if you're not utilizing a technology that allows
42:51
you to kind of have a more custom experience with channel, you might just, it might just
42:54
tell you, this may not be a good, you know, good fit.
42:58
And, you know, if you're at a point in your business where you say, I do not meet people
43:01
face to face, you know, forgetting about, you know, COVID, but it's just not a part of
43:03
your, your deal.
43:05
Then it kind of informs saying, we're probably not a good fit for each other.
43:08
And I can probably refer you to one of my colleagues who loves to sit down with people
43:11
and meet face to face because that's their business model.
43:14
There's no one absolute right way to do it because part of it is, yes, it's about productivity,
43:20
it's about efficiency, it's about creating a great experience, but it's just like I can
43:25
have a great experience at Chipotle if that's what I'm looking for, but I can also have
43:29
a great experience at, you know, ocean air, you know, or somewhere where it's like, you
43:34
know, it depends on kind of what you're looking for for that, what suits your needs.
43:39
And it's not one size fits all.
43:40
And that's okay.
43:42
Yeah, and I think if you're going to be virtual, so to speak.
43:44
And of course, right through COVID, we've had changes in expectations, meaning, well,
43:50
okay, maybe people don't need to meet face to face as much anymore, right?
43:54
Maybe now we're doing our buyer consults over Zoom and stuff like that.
43:57
And that's cool, but I think let's not forget what we're saying here.
44:01
What we started about talking about was the experience, right?
44:04
What's the customer experience and architecting that?
44:06
Because if you are exclusively only virtual, then I personally think you've got to add
44:12
some moments of surprise or delight in there, right?
44:16
Especially if we're talking about like getting approvals on a home purchase, you know,
44:20
you've seen this as well, where people, you know, do these little congratulations on
44:24
approval.
44:25
They'll send whatever.
44:26
So I'm kind of gift or balloons or whatever the heck it is.
44:28
Yeah.
44:29
I mean, just to create that special, because listen, we're talking about building a career.
44:33
We're talking about building future and referral and repeat business and stuff like that.
44:37
And if an average, I don't think, here's what I always say, I think it's easy to win today.
44:43
Be honest with you.
44:44
Now, what do I mean by that?
44:45
Do I mean that there's no competition or no?
44:47
I just mean that most people are still just doing the basics that all if all you do is
44:51
10 or 20% more, you're going to stand out.
44:54
Yeah.
44:55
Yeah.
44:56
And I do think you can automate the wow, I would say.
45:02
Just like you just said, maybe there's some cool, special thing that you, you know, that
45:05
you want to send out that's going to be a real wow.
45:07
You craft out your journey and you say, that's part of it.
45:10
Make that part of your process.
45:11
No make it a one off, you know, thing, they'll make that like operationalize it.
45:15
Make it part of your process where that you know every single time, it just, that was
45:19
a huge thing for me when I was originating is I wanted to know every single time I wasn't
45:23
leaving anything to fate.
45:24
And so when I found those gaps, like you said, somebody keeps asking the same question,
45:28
all my customers asked this question, hey, you know what?
45:30
There's a communication that needs to be popped in there, right?
45:33
But you craft this experience, automate those walls in there, surprising the light.
45:40
And then utilize the efficiency that that gains you for those times that you really need
45:44
that human interaction with the real estate agents as well as with those, those customers.
45:48
Yeah.
45:49
For instance, I know a loan officer who has send out cards integrated into her CRM and
45:55
upon approval or whatever it is, right?
45:57
It'll fire off in the system to send out a card, right?
46:00
And it's a handwritten card, right?
46:02
Kind of cool.
46:03
Automated, there's technology.
46:06
Other quick ideas in terms of like finding those moments where you can create impact or
46:09
finding where it's broken, like you're doing the architect your process.
46:13
One loan officer had a great idea what she does is she gives her team, she gives her
46:18
team a nice little journal, right?
46:20
And all that kind of stuff and talks about it's, you know, really cool and people really
46:23
want to start using it.
46:24
It could be a Google Docs.
46:25
It could be a Trello.
46:26
But any time in your process throughout the week, if you, if you, your team comes across
46:31
something that's broken or has friction or could be better, write it down, right?
46:37
And then we're on our weekly meeting, we're going to pick one of those ideas and say, do
46:40
we want to change this?
46:41
Yep.
46:42
Absolutely.
46:43
Find where those rubs are and don't just go like, ah, God, that's aggravating for the
46:47
thousand time.
46:48
Let's actually go in and fix that.
46:50
And again, you said it earlier and it's so true that I think when volume is so high,
46:56
it just feels a little bit like, oh, you know, I don't have time for this and I've got
46:59
enough business anyways.
47:00
But most people listening have probably been in the business a little bit, right?
47:05
There's probably some, you know, I know there's some newer folks coming in, but we have
47:09
been here before and we have come out of this before and we have wished that we'd done
47:13
different things during the time that we had to actually really make sure that our foundations
47:19
were strong.
47:20
Even though we're swimming in business, there's probably something kind of nagging
47:23
at you right now that you know, would say, I know I need to fix this because in a year
47:28
I'm going to be wishing I would have done this, do it, like do it, like I sometimes I'll
47:32
tell people like, you know, what if you were, you know, what if you got the flu and you're
47:36
sick for a day?
47:37
You would be out of pocket, right?
47:38
So pretend that you're sick for a day and take a day and just like make it a sick day
47:43
but make it a day that you're actually working on your business, not just doing your business,
47:47
right?
47:48
Car of all that time because it just pays such huge dividends into the future of your
47:52
business and your success.
47:54
Well, I mean, look, one way to win is your reputation, you know, like what's your reputation
48:02
with your customers, with your referral partners and all that when people, word of mouth is still
48:05
a real thing, right?
48:06
It's just on social now.
48:08
So if people can talk about what is your competitive advantage?
48:12
Let's face it, Sue, we've heard this for a thousand years.
48:15
It's not interest rate, okay?
48:18
You're not going to win on rate really, okay?
48:20
I know you might have a slightly better, but that's not going to be enough and you know
48:24
this as well as anybody, but this is really for those listening.
48:26
So if you're not going to win on rate and you're not going to win on cost and fees and
48:30
all that kind of stuff, what are you going to win on?
48:33
All right?
48:34
You're shining personality, right?
48:35
You're, you know what I mean?
48:36
No, you're going to win on how you make somebody feel during the process.
48:41
Yep.
48:42
That's right.
48:43
And you know, you and I've talked about this.
48:46
We forget, I think sometimes in all businesses do, that there's really only one hero in
48:51
a story and the hero is not us.
48:54
It's our customer, right?
48:55
The customer is the hero and whether it's, you know, making them feel that way or even
49:00
raising up some of those stories, I think that's the best and most compelling marketing that
49:04
I ever see is when you're hearing a story and you can see yourself in that story and
49:10
say, oh, that person had a problem, I got that problem.
49:12
That person, you know, did this and now here's their end result.
49:17
Those are compelling things as human beings were hardwired like this.
49:20
We love stories.
49:21
This is how, you know, history was, you know, kind of transferred from individual to individual
49:26
over, you know, thousands of years is by stories, right?
49:30
And so think about that.
49:31
Your customer is the hero of the story, not you.
49:34
And how can you not only make them feel like a hero but raise up those hero stories, you
49:39
know, to, to help another person see them as wanting to be the next person in your story.
49:44
Yeah.
49:45
Well, I mean, speaking of story, that's why I kind of referenced that quote posted
49:49
Instagram a few moments ago, premium price requires a premium story and sales process.
49:53
I think most L.O.s miss an opportunity to tell a story when that call comes in and
49:59
to tell you what's your rate, you know, I'm trying to get people to say, listen,
50:04
rates important, but, you know, would it be okay if we take a moment to tell you why
50:07
we're different?
50:08
You know what I mean?
50:09
Yeah.
50:10
There's the story.
50:11
You know, whether it's leading with education, whether it's, there's something there
50:15
you can do to differentiate.
50:16
Yep.
50:17
Well, and one of the, the responses I would have to that when I was an originator is I
50:19
would just say, man, I would be super irresponsible if I just quoted you a rate.
50:23
You know, there's so many things that I don't even know yet, you know, and for me to not
50:27
be completely irresponsible, you know, I need to know like, you know, how long are you planning
50:32
on staying in this house?
50:33
You know, what's your goal?
50:34
You know, why are you making this move now?
50:36
You know, how, you know, and you start asking all of those questions, those consultative
50:40
questions.
50:41
But you also kind of position as, and not necessarily professional or responsible, the
50:47
next person who's like, you know, two and a half and just as a rate, right?
50:52
You know, because it is irresponsible and unprofessional to just fly out a rate, you
50:55
know, without knowing anything else about that person.
50:57
Well, and that is part of the process, part of your customer experience is from the
51:03
first words that come out of your mouth, you know what I mean?
51:05
That's right.
51:06
If you're just going to like fall down and what's your, well, rates today are, there's
51:11
no process there.
51:14
So without like, it's the old thing within the absence of value, right, meaning a premium
51:19
process.
51:20
The story, price is the only comparable.
51:23
That's right.
51:24
So if you're not taking charge of the conversation, like you said, and let me just take a pause,
51:27
I'd be, you know, remiss, I'd be unprofessional if I just quoted your rate, you know, obviously
51:32
what we do differently here at ABC mortgages, right?
51:35
We invest in knowing about our clients and blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, you guys need
51:39
to do something there.
51:40
That's what I'm saying.
51:42
What do you see?
51:43
All right.
51:44
We only got a couple of minutes left.
51:45
What do you see?
51:46
I was going to throw this question at you completely off topic.
51:48
What do you see as the biggest threat to the loan officer population moving forward?
51:54
These threats to the loan officer population.
51:57
I don't know, I would say them, you know, ourselves, you know, I'll put myself in the population
52:04
for minutes.
52:05
I grew up as a loan officer.
52:07
As I said earlier, it's not technology.
52:10
I don't see technology replacing the loan officer, but the loan officers who choose not
52:15
to embrace technology will be replaced by the ones who have.
52:20
And so I do think that that's something that, and I don't say that because I'm standing
52:24
in the walls of a technology company, but I just, I saw that even, you know, again,
52:29
when I was originating, you have to find ways to be more efficient to providing a better
52:34
experience because of the, you know, what you gain with technology, because what enables
52:40
you to do then is to be there to get that real estate agent's relationship or to be there
52:44
for that person who really needs to hear your human voice, not because you're busy doing
52:49
stuff that technology could be doing, right?
52:52
So I would just tend to say that I, you know, again, right now there is an opportunity
52:58
as, and I know we're busy.
52:59
I get it.
53:01
But to carve out the time to really, you know, foundational, he set the stage for where
53:06
you want your business and your practice to be in the future, not doing that will, you
53:13
know, I think put your future at peril.
53:16
And I know it doesn't feel like it right now because again, in the money machine and,
53:19
you know, I get it, but it is a time that people have to make really, have the discipline
53:26
to make really good foundational decisions about making sure their process is the best it
53:31
can possibly be, and how are they going to level it up and what shifts do they need to
53:36
make to adopt whether it is a new technology, whether it's working on new partnerships,
53:40
whether it's, you know, bringing in new team members, whatever that looks like, when
53:45
you feel like you don't have the time, you have to take the time.
53:47
So I wouldn't, you know, I would just say the biggest threat against anybody, you know,
53:51
on this call is themselves.
53:53
Yeah.
53:54
Yeah.
53:55
I don't just agree with that because you're evolving, you're green and growing or ripe
53:58
and rotting.
53:59
And there's always external market forces and pressures on us to continue to evolve and
54:04
be relevant.
54:05
And one of those things is a process, which your sales process, you know, because we've
54:09
been spoiled.
54:10
Josh ain't redemption, right?
54:11
Get busy living or get busy dying, right?
54:14
That is like one of my favorite sayings and movies of all time.
54:18
I'm so unbelievable.
54:20
Unbelievable.
54:21
Like when people ask you, what's your favorite movie?
54:22
That's always on my top 10.
54:23
Yeah.
54:24
I think I washed that like easily 10 times.
54:26
So many lessons about life in that movie.
54:28
So if you haven't watched it, you're welcome.
54:30
Absolutely.
54:31
All right.
54:32
So final closing parting words, Sue Woodard, total expert.
54:36
What's going on at total expert?
54:38
What's on the horizon for you guys?
54:39
What's coming?
54:40
You know, just we've got a lot of good, exciting things happening in a year ahead.
54:44
I mean, I think one of our big initiatives this year is really surrounding our integration
54:48
strategy and really just up leveling that, putting an awesome API in place so that every
54:53
single lender out there, everybody's got their own kind of secret sauce, mix of things
54:59
that go into their tech stack, but being a hub at the center of that and really tying
55:03
together sales and marketing and compliance and having all of the integrations to all
55:08
of the other, you know, that the LOS, the product and pricing, you know, all of the different
55:12
partners out there that are an incredibly important part of that ecosystem in providing
55:17
a great customer experience.
55:19
You know, we just want to level that up so that everybody's got the ability to easily
55:24
have their data flowing, you know, throughout and have no data silos, have their data flowing
55:28
and keep it all in one hub.
55:29
So, but we're excited.
55:31
We've got just an amazing, amazing customer family.
55:34
It's as I said earlier, we're not the heroes.
55:36
Our customers are the heroes and it's exciting to see the differences that they're making
55:41
in the lives of their customers, of their communities by being able to communicate just
55:46
in a better and more efficient way.
55:48
It's as I said, we hear a hero stories every single day and it's just exciting to be
55:53
a part of it.
55:54
Yeah.
55:55
Well, I know you guys are leading the charge out there and there are a handful of LOS.
55:58
I've spoken to that.
55:59
I've listening to this podcast that I know used total experts.
56:01
So, if anybody wants to reach out to you, just to connect, whatever, what do you say?
56:05
How would they reach out to you?
56:06
Yeah.
56:07
Hit me on LinkedIn is probably the best way.
56:09
My daughter tells me I'm really missing about by not being on TikTok and Instagram, everything
56:13
else.
56:14
But I got to try to limit my channels.
56:16
So reach out to me on LinkedIn.
56:18
I'd love to connect.
56:19
And yeah, if you're part of your customer family, but you need a little help, let us know.
56:23
We've got an army of people here that are ready to help you.
56:26
And if you're not part of the total expert family, we'd like to learn more.
56:30
Nudge your sales and marketing leadership and ask them to reach out.
56:33
And we'd be happy to get that conversation started.
56:36
You bet.
56:37
Awesome.
56:38
We'll put links to your LinkedIn and the show notes as well.
56:40
Connect directly to you over there.
56:42
Sue, always good to catch up with you and I know you're busy, so thank you for making
56:44
time.
56:45
Oh, thank you.
56:46
You're busy as well.
56:47
We're all busy right now.
56:48
But that's a high class problem, right?
56:50
Absolutely.
56:51
So remember, the takeaway folks is audit your customer experience.
56:55
Take some time.
56:56
Take a day off, right?
56:57
And kind of map that out.
56:58
Work with your team to do that.
56:59
And just, you know, just ask yourself, like, how awesome of a customer experience could
57:02
you create?
57:03
I think of Ritz Carlton, you know, whenever I think of these parallels, it's like,
57:06
we want a Ritz Carlton experience, I think.
57:08
If you're looking for a premium price, it's got to be that premium process.
57:12
So all right.
57:13
Sue, good to catch up with you.
57:14
Everybody listening.
57:15
Thanks for tuning in.
57:16
And you know what to do.
57:17
If you like this episode or others, leave us a review.
57:18
Appreciate you tuning in.
57:19
And we'll see you on the next one.
57:20
Bye for now.
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