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Radical Acceptance: Grief’s Final Lesson · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
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  Speaker B: Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host Michael DiIorio, and joining me today is Matt Lensitl. This is our final episode in our four part series on grief and we are wrapping it up by talking about radical acceptance. We'll be covering what it is, exactly why it's more challenging than it sounds, and we'll be sharing some ways to practice it. What we want you to leave this episode with is a greater sense of peace, one that comes with accepting what is, even when life doesn't go as planned. If you're new here, please subscribe to the channel on YouTube and if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and leave us a review which helps us get into the ears of the people who need us. This podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported, so if you enjoy what we're creating here, you can support us by making a donation to the show using the link in the show notes. Or if you're watching us on YouTube, you can tap thanks to show us some love. All right, as I said, this is our final episode in our four part series on grief. Don't worry if you missed the last three episodes. I'll give you a recap, but I do recommend you go back and listen to them when we're done. Grief that we've talked about was not specifically about death and dying. Grief is more than just death and dying. So in these three episodes we explored some of the often ignored tender corners of grief, such as grieving who we used to be, or grieving who we wanted to be but never were. Grieving the friendships and relationships that faded or fell apart, and finally, the heartbreak of watching our parents age and change before our eyes. If you have been with us through the last three episodes, you've come to realize that grief isn't always obvious or loud. And as I said, it's not always about death and dying. In fact, grief is quite subtle. It's living in the background of our lives and shows up as feelings that we can't always quite name. But it's a heaviness that's there and I'm hoping that through these three episodes you can now name it and identify it. A lot of us feel grief even though no one has died. It's kind of like shame in that it's there and heavy, but hard to pinpoint and hard to name and, and also easy to get lost in. But today we are arriving at the light at the end of the tunnel. I know it's been heavy, and I want to just acknowledge that. And thank you guys for sticking with us through these three episodes. But today, you know, it is the light at the end of the tunnel. Not because the pain goes away, necessarily, but more so because we learn how to accept a new normal, a new life, a new version of things, even if it's one we didn't ask for or didn't. So, yes, this episode is about radical acceptance, and that is what allows us to stop fighting reality. It doesn't have to be used in grief. This concept can be used with many things in anything in your life. It's what allows you to stop fighting reality and start living in it. It's the transformation of grief, as I said earlier, into peace. And that's what we want here. Notice how the goal isn't happiness. The goal is peace. So radical acceptance helps us hold our past with compassion. It helps us to release old relationships that didn't work out and relate to our aging parents with grace. For those of you who like hard and fast definitions, I took to the Googles and here's what it says. Radical acceptance means fully acknowledging reality exactly as it is, without denial, resistance, or avoidance, even when it's painful. Now, if you're like me, I asked, well, why add the word radical and not just acceptance? What's the difference? So. So I'm going to share with you the difference. Acceptance often implies a begrudging tolerance. It's kind of like a fine, I guess this is what it is. It's this defeated resignation, and there's an aura of hopelessness about it. Radical acceptance is different. Radical acceptance says, I may not like this, I certainly did not choose this, but I no longer want to use my energy wishing that it was different. And so a metaphor I love is the. We've used this on the podcast before is the waves of the ocean. So I want you to imagine grief is like the waves of an ocean. Resisting grief is like trying to hold back the waves, trying to stop them. You're going to exhaust yourself, and it never works. Accepting grief is letting the waves hit you, but you're kind of stiff and resentful that they're there. Radical acceptance is learning how to float. It's completely surrendering your body to the waves, learning to move with it, even if you're crying, even if you're hurting. But what you're not doing is tiring yourself out or drowning in it. Okay, that's how I want you to imagine acceptance versus radical acceptance. All right, let's jump into it. So, Matt, can you share with us an example of when you've had to practice this radical acceptance and what was the most challenging aspect for you?
• 5:10
  Speaker C: That might have been my favorite intro that you've ever done.
• 5:12
  Speaker B: Oh, yay.
• 5:13
  Speaker C: That one was really good.
• 5:14
  Speaker A: I loved it.
• 5:15
  Speaker C: I like what you said. This is what I took away. It was all brilliant. But I no longer want to use my energy wishing things were different. That has been my lesson. So it is through the suffering, the things that I've been through, that I got opportunity to practice radical acceptance, that I got opportunity to practice surrendering, that I got opportunity to practice trusting. And 40 years later, here I am, and I'm in a place where I'm learned, I've learned, and I'm continuing to learn and be humbled by the waves, right? That they're gonna. They're gonna knock me over, they're gonna hit me. Some days I'm gonna be rigid to them. Some days I'm gonna learn how to flow with them. Some days I'm gonna be surfing on them. And that's really been my journey with. With a lot of this. And I think people that have been through a lot of things, a lot of trauma in their lives, I think there's. You know, you have to go through that. You have to go through learning how to accept, radically accept your past, the limitations, the. The abuse, the. Whatever it might be. And I. I want to really highlight that acceptance is not approval. To accept something is not to say you're approving of what happened to you. It's just simply accepting that this did happen to me, and I can continue to choose to fight the waves, or I can flow with it, right? So, yeah, suffering for me, and my suffering has come in many forms, I think. You know, not having the childhood that I wanted to have was a big thing. And I've had to learn, I've had to grieve that, and then I've had to radically accept that. That's the childhood that I had. And there was some really beautiful things to it, but there was also a lot of suffering and struggle. Depression. Depression is the vehicle that has taught me how to radically accept and surrender. Because I was so tired and so hopeless. And so everything when I was in the. The bowels of my depression is like, there's no other option than to just radically accept where you are and just know that you have to go through this and that your nervous system is repairing and healing. The more I tried to fight and claw my way out of depression, the worse it got, the more resistance I brought into it, the worse that it got. I'm not saying this is going to be for everybody because some people you need to claw your way out, especially if you're having suicidal ideation and these sorts of things. You got it. There's a fight that you have to have, but it's, it's, it's not about resistance. The fight can't be resistance. And putting resistance constantly up to the thing that, that I'm, that I was, that I was dealing with because it just made it worse. Having chronic nerve pain in my neck. So for a two year window, it was the most excruciating thing. No pain medication would work. And I had horrible nerve because I had two bulge discs, one on each side. So both of my arms had bad nerve pain going down into my hands. And it literally led me to feeling suicidal. That's how brutal it was. And I had to, I had to learn how to radically accept my pain and I had to learn how to befriend my pain and be with it. And that was one of the hardest things I think I've ever had to accept is chronic pain. Because there's nothing you can do about it. You can't push it away. You can't. You literally have to meditate on it. That's the only thing that worked for me is learning how to meditate. Because the more that I would resist it and say, fuck you, pain. You're so painful.
• 8:32
  Speaker B: Painful.
• 8:32
  Speaker C: This sucks, right? My ego would experience it as the most terrible thing in the world and it would make it worse, right? So learning how to, to cozy up to my pain and accept it and, and just know that this is a part of my life right now and I'm learning something from it. That's. That was big. And then being gay, this, this a big kahuna. I think we can all relate to this. If you're gay and you're listening to this, being gay is something we have to radically accept because I didn't choose it, I didn't want to be gay. And here I am liking men jerking off to gay porn. Like this is, this is a desire, a sexual desire that I have that my ego did not want to have.
• 9:12
  Speaker D: Right.
• 9:13
  Speaker C: So there's a major dissonance in that. And having to reconcile that dissonance with acceptance has really been. Been profound. And the most challenging aspect for me of all this is the duality because like I Said, like, I. I have a lot of consciousness, but my ego sometimes comes in too, and it's, like, you know, creates more suffering. This is unfair, Right? Like, why do I have to go through this? And, like, you know, going into this. This thing, I think made it. Made it worse. Even worse for me.
• 9:43
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 9:43
  Speaker C: And I did a lot of this suffering on my own, to be honest. I did it in silence, and I didn't tell a lot of people about it. So that also kind of made it hard for me as well.
• 9:54
  Speaker B: Beautiful answers. Do you find that we don't. It's interesting, at least for me. Acceptance is, like, the last. The last one on my list because it's the one that works. That's why it's the last one. I don't keep trying. But, like, what other phases do you go through? Like, what does resistance look like for you? Or is it anger? Like, how. What phases do you go through before you land on acceptance?
• 10:16
  Speaker C: Well, I think denial, probably. So being gay, it was like, I pretended like I wasn't or these sorts of things. But when it comes to, like, depression, suffering. Yeah, anger. I think anger's a big one for me. And resistance shows up in. This is unfair. Like, why is this happening to me? Comparing myself to other people that appear to not have suffering and being like, this is ridiculous.
• 10:41
  Speaker A: Why.
• 10:41
  Speaker C: Why do I have this karma? Or why is this dharma, you know, mine? Like, these sorts of things. So it's very victim mindset. And then I think depression. Depression taught me so much and is teaching me still, like, I still have it. It's not like I, you know, cured myself of it. I think it's something I'm. I'm always gonna be negotiating with and to a certain degree. And it's through that. That depression that I've really learned acceptance.
• 11:10
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 11:11
  Speaker B: Thank you for sharing.
• 11:12
  Speaker C: And to stop fighting myself. That's the biggest thing. Stop fighting myself. Because radical acceptance is literally just waving the white flag and saying, like, I'm done fighting myself.
• 11:23
  Speaker B: Like, surrender. Beautifully said. I think the example I have that's so obvious to me is being gay. I. I had no choice.
• 11:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 11:35
  Speaker B: The only option was.
• 11:37
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 11:38
  Speaker B: To accept it. And for me, that meant accepting myself, coming out to my family and friends and really just being gay. Like, the gay version of me, and, like, what does that look like? And try to find the best that that might be. And it's. It's always happening. It's a question I ask every day. But as a kid, as a teenager, it was doom, it was death. It was my Life is over. Oh, my God, I can't. What's. Like, how's am I gonna live? And it was the worst thing. So I tried to hide it. Hide it. That was the resisting for me, just to hide it, mask it, don't look at it, don't let other people see it. And then eventually, you know, we've talked about, in previous episodes about coming out. There's a tipping point. I reached that tipping point. I couldn't do it. I was exhausted. And I probably would have had either a very short life or a very miserable life if I didn't finally just say, I can't do this. I'm gay. And I just need to start telling people whatever that might look like. So I think that that is the most obvious example for me. And in general, I'll say the most challenging part, but even for that example is this. This letting go of control. And this ego, this, my very strong ego, who constantly telling me what the best way is and that everything else is wrong. And we say this all the time. We have no idea what the best way is. And control is such an illusion anyway. So for me, giving up control, it's just a constant lesson. Constant. The universe is always reminding me I have no control. You have no control. You have no control because things don't go my way, clearly. And when that happens, I can either get angry, blame, get mad at myself, I did something wrong, get mad at the world, get mad at other people, or, yeah, this. This is the way it is. And yes, sometimes I have to go through that, like, resignation, defeating acceptance before I get to radical acceptance. And I give myself that space to kind of feel a bit resigned and defeated for a little bit before recognizing, okay, this, like, it might not be something I want, but it is where I am. And I have two choices here. One, to keep being miserable, or two, to live my life and do the best I can. And you have to choose option two. At least I. I do most of the time.
• 13:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:45
  Speaker C: What do you. What do you do to resist accepting? Yeah, what do you do to resist accepting? Like, what is. How does that show up for you when you're resisting accepting something? What do you. How does your ego negotiate with.
• 13:58
  Speaker B: Continues to try to control? Like, it's so funny. It's like, you know, this doesn't work, but you keep trying. So, you know, trying another way, trying to make it better, try to make it fix just this fixed mentality, resisting it in that way. And then I think, for me, as I said, blaming either others or Myself or the world. That's how I know that I am in dire need of a little acceptance. Medicine is when I'm looking at everything else, including myself, saying I've done something wrong or something has gone wrong. It's not, it's not supposed to be this way. That's the word, that's the phrasing in my mind. So I resist it by trying to, like, regain control. Like, no, no, no. Okay. Wa to do this instead. And, like, let me try to, like, it's just this constant energy that gets exhausting of trying to fix and control. That's probably the number one way. And I'm really good at it. So that's, that's the hard thing is, like, I can do a pretty damn good job and I have a high tolerance for, for pain, so I'll do it for a while. Or if I find, like, I can't just give up. It's ego. It really is ego. Yeah.
• 15:04
  Speaker C: Yeah. And what's the point that you get to, when you get to, like, start accepting? Like, is it fatigue or exhaustion or, like, where you're just like, I can't control anymore. I can't keep fighting. Like, what's the, what's your waving of the white flag for you?
• 15:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think for me it's a fatigue moment where, like, I'm just miserable and, like, I just, I don't want to be miserable anymore. I don't want to keep trying. I don't want to tire myself out. It's what I said at the beginning. Like, I don't want to be using my energy to fight this. Yeah, I have energy, and I would rather be doing many other things with it. This is not how I want to be using my valuable energy.
• 15:40
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 15:41
  Speaker C: I'm curious because I, I, I, you know, with sexuality, do you think that sexuality is something that is inherent? Like, we like what we're aroused by? I more so mean so, like, for example, whether you're gay or whether you're, you're top, bottom into fisting or whatever, these sort of things. Do you think that we, we, like, have a template of things that we're attracted to and that are, that create arousal based off of whatever it could be genetics or, or do you think that it's something that we're constantly pulling things into our library and, and our, it's, it's always changing and shifting?
• 16:16
  Speaker B: I think it's both. I think there's a biological aspect of it, for sure. Like, I think being gay, I don't think anyone gets to choose it like being attracted to men, rather. But then there's like, all the different little subtleties of it that I think are very much socially or culturally imprinted in us. Like, this is what is an attractive man. This is what, like. And then we kind of get that fed to us at the beginning. And then, you know, we might be just naturally curious about other things. So maybe some people are naturally curious about dominance and submission, and you can either, like, don through that door, or you can say, oh, what's through the store? And approach that. And maybe it. Maybe it's something that you like, and maybe it's something that you don't. But to answer your question, I do think it's a little bit of both. I think we're given like a. Maybe a framework or a blueprint that doesn't really change, but then that it can be influenced by culture, social life, and by your life in general, even by experiences we know we've talked about before that. That happen in, like, adolescence and even childhood. I still find myself very much attracted to the kind of guys that I was attracted to when I was a teenager.
• 17:25
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, same. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's. I think we do come in with a template of things that were. And then we can, you know, have little nuances. It's like we have the Sunday, and then the toppings are the things that get to kind. But the ice cream is going to be like, I'm gay. I like to bottom more than I like to top, or whatever it might be. And then I think we can sprinkle things on.
• 17:46
  Speaker A: But.
• 17:46
  Speaker C: And I think that's where radical acceptance can also come into play, too, is it's like we have to radically accept who. Who we are as sexual beings, because we do have that. From my perspective, the initial template that we have to practice acceptance around, and for some people, they might not want to be gay, or they might not want to be a lesbian or whatever it might be that they.
• 18:05
  Speaker D: Right.
• 18:06
  Speaker C: But our authentic desires will be satiated when we do practice radically accepting that about ourselves. So we can therefore play in the play in the playground of whatever it is that we authentically desire, even if there might be shame around it.
• 18:20
  Speaker D: Right?
• 18:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And that's why conversion therapy doesn't work.
• 18:24
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 18:24
  Speaker B: That's the blueprint that you were born with and. Yeah, I love that analogy of the Sundays.
• 18:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:32
  Speaker B: All right, let's check in with our audience. Why don't you guys share with us in the comments what is the most challenging aspect of Radical acceptance for you. And by the way, if you have some experience with this, if you've managed to to figure out how to practice radical acceptance, please share with us some of your own tips. Let's make our comment section here a beautiful place to learn from and support each other. And if you're enjoying the conversation we're having here today, we invite you to join our weekly events in the Gay Men's Brotherhood. We have virtual sharing circles where you'll have a chance to share your own experiences on the topics we discuss here. And we also have connection circles, which are smaller, more intimate breakout rooms where you can discuss the topics here with other members of the community in little breakout rooms of three. We run these every Thursday, so go to gaymensbrotherhood.com and check out our events section to RSVP. If you don't have Facebook, that's okay. Just make sure you get on our email list and we will email you all the details. All right. What helps you move into acceptance while you're still hurting?
• 19:36
  Speaker A: Hmm.
• 19:38
  Speaker C: The while it's still hurting, I think piece, it requires us to be with our emotions, right? Because it's hard to move into acceptance if you haven't gone through grief and anger and denial and, you know, all the feels. So I do think the primary focus of this question would need to be being present with your emotions, or I'll just speak for myself. Being present with my emotions. It's so, so important because I know for me, like when I get triggered or something happens and I start to go into the ego and I want to control, if I am able to just chill, take 15 minutes, go lay down and process the emotion, let it move through my body. Acceptance is on the other of that. Okay. But when it comes to bigger things, I think it's, it's, it's layers of that process. You don't just do it once. You got to move through the layers of all the things that that thing you're trying to accept are interconnected into, right. If it's smaller, it's going to just be that one incident. But if it's bigger, then it's going to have to be. How does this thing I've been through influence so many areas of my life? And I'm going to have to grieve and get angry and process emotions in each of these zones. So I think that's, that would be the foundation for me. And then, and then moving more into like the, the intellectual self because I do think it's a mindset shift as well, as it is a process of somatically moving emotion and moving energy through the body. And I. I just wrote down the belief that everything happens for a reason, and it's for my highest spiritual evolution. Like, that is something I've fallen back on since I started my spiritual path. Probably. Honestly, I didn't even know it. But that time, we're probably around 15 years old, I started grappling with concepts, you know, greater than myself and finding solace in them because I needed to.
• 21:21
  Speaker D: Right.
• 21:21
  Speaker C: And then I also choosing to meet life as it is and not how I wish it to be, because that, for me is a big thing. And, you know, this whole notion of, like, life is unfair. I know that's going to be the thing that. That traps me. That's my trap as soon as I'm stuck in that. That area. And it's. It means I'm in ego, if I'm looking at life is unfair because what I'm doing when I'm saying that is I'm comparing myself to other people. The ego loves some comparison. So as soon as I start comparing, I'm like, well, why is this person getting off scotch free and I have all this suffering again, I don't know. I don't know somebody and what they're actually having to deal with. So that's a big one. And then I love this notion of. I describe myself as a spiritual warrior, and that suffering is my initiation into my. Whatever you want to call it, my shaman hood, my mystic hood, my. These. These things that I'm evolving into. I need this stuff. Like, I'm a wounded healer, and I. I couldn't be a healer if I didn't have wound. And my wound is the thing that gives me the. The currency of. It's my substance. You know what I mean? So without all the things I've been through, I wouldn't have substance do. Am I ready for it to be complete? And in a way, yeah. I don't want to be having so much intense suffering in order to learn my lessons, but. So there's a part of me that I'm ready for this next chapter. I really have a feeling like I'm entering something really special. And.
• 22:45
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:45
  Speaker C: So I say bring it on.
• 22:47
  Speaker B: Matt, in one of the previous episodes in the series, you had talked about the stages of grief. Do you remember that?
• 22:53
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:54
  Speaker B: What was. What was the last one?
• 22:58
  Speaker C: So denial. So Dabda. Denial, Anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
• 23:05
  Speaker B: There we go.
• 23:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 23:07
  Speaker C: So you got to go through those. Those five stages or those four Stages to get to the fifth one, which is acceptance.
• 23:13
  Speaker B: Yeah. I'm so happy you mentioned that because I can see people wanting to, like, listen to this. Like, oh, yeah, get me out of my grief. Like, let me take my acceptance, Bill. But no, I'm so happy that you had said you have to process it. You have to go through it, go through the stages and. And go back to that episode because Matt did a really good job explaining how they're not necessarily siloed like that.
• 23:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:34
  Speaker C: Thank you.
• 23:35
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I. I love that part. The. The qualifier of while you're still hurting, that's. That's really important. And I think my answer to this is one word, which is faith.
• 23:46
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:47
  Speaker B: And that's where I'm so happy. I have a faith spiritual practice. I don't necessarily belong to any kind of specific faith, denomination, or anything like that, but I have a spiritual side, an aspect of me that just knows I don't need to understand everything or agree with it. And going back to my control, ego, self, the antidote is humility.
• 24:10
  Speaker D: Right.
• 24:10
  Speaker B: And it's just like, I don't. I don't know anything. Who am I to control how things work? Who am I to know what's best? Who am I to figure this out?
• 24:19
  Speaker D: Right?
• 24:19
  Speaker B: Like, it's. It's that kind of mentality, which is humility, but it's also very relieving and liberating in a way. Like, I don't need to do this. Like, this is way above my pay grade. Let it go.
• 24:31
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:33
  Speaker C: In one of my astrology chart readings, it said the thing. I think it's the south node is where you're coming from. So the north node is where I'm. So something from my north node is to learn how to disengage. And that's been something I've been trying to master for the last two years. It's like, this is not my monkey, not my circus. Turn away and, like.
• 24:54
  Speaker D: Right.
• 24:55
  Speaker C: And just disengage from things that aren't in alignment. And it's been. It's been a savior for me.
• 25:00
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 25:00
  Speaker B: And that. It's. It's. It's the opposite of control. And it's so liberating. It. It sounds so simple and easy, but for me, sometimes it's not until I get to that point, the tipping point, and the reminders. Right. Like, life was never meant to be fair. You had talked about fair. That's not fair. And I'll say back to myself, like, who said fairness was ever part of Anything. Exactly what contract was that that I signed? I didn't. Same thing with easiness, right? I'll say often. Easy is not. We didn't come here for an easy life necessarily. And again, who am I to control things? So just giving myself a big dose of that humble pie in those ways and surrendering all that control to the universe. My spirituality says that there is something bigger than me, greater than me, all intelligent, something, energy, force, I don't know, out there that I have no concept of. And that's where the faith comes in. I can't see it, I can't prove it, and yet I completely, fully have faith that it exists. And so I can tell when I talk to people like you who have faith or have something, something that they believe in that is greater than themselves in all. All of these darkest moments, that is when it really comes into play versus those who don't. They can feel very lost, very directionless and very small. Not in a good way small, like a humility small, but very like I don't know what I'm doing out here. And faith, I think, helps that. I think anyone who has any kind of spiritual practice, you know, you. You know what it is for you. I'm kind of describing what it is for me, but I have noticed because for me, that only came online in my maybe early 30s when I started to have that. And it changed a lot for me when it comes to these kinds of things, like grief, it just reminds me I don't know what's going on here. And I don't have to know today. Maybe I'll never know, but maybe one day I will. And that's something else I'll say is when I look back at things in the past that I've grieved and that I thought were the worst thing ever, like coming out, when I've actually accepted it down the road, maybe it's years, maybe it's months. I'm like, oh, that makes so much sense that I went through that. Of course I went through that, that that was the curriculum for me to learn all of these other things. I just in that moment, in that little small version of me, in that moment, had no idea that that was the path.
• 27:21
  Speaker C: Yeah, a lot of what you're saying is bringing up one word and it's believing. I don't know why that word is coming through, but it's like believing. Maybe like believing that everything is going to work out, but there's something with, with belief that's required. It's like there's so many people in our world that are. You know, you just even use the word evidence based when it comes to anything, science and these sorts of things. But some things, they're. They can't be proven.
• 27:46
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:46
  Speaker D: Right.
• 27:46
  Speaker C: And there's still a way that you can use belief or faith as a way to surrender into an unknowing.
• 27:54
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:55
  Speaker C: And in that unknowing, we can accept that sometimes things just happen because they happen.
• 28:00
  Speaker D: Right.
• 28:01
  Speaker C: And that there might not be an explanation or evidence as to why.
• 28:06
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker C: How do you just, how do you describe or define like, surrender?
• 28:10
  Speaker B: The giving up of control of everything I said of like knowing. Knowing answers and control. I don't need answers. I don't need control. I don't need to like, I want the answers. I want to see the future. I want us, I want there. I want someone to tell me, michael, this is going to be fine, I promise. But like, that doesn't work. Like there's no crystal ball out there.
• 28:30
  Speaker A: Right.
• 28:30
  Speaker B: And so surrendering is kind of just letting go of the need for answers as well as the need to control everything. And that is really hard for me.
• 28:38
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:38
  Speaker B: How about for you?
• 28:41
  Speaker C: Surrender? I would say, yeah, it's for me, it's a visual of like, you know, when I'm. When I'm over controlling, both hands are on the wheel and I'm like, ain't nobody touching my wheel. I'm going in this direction. And I think surrender for me is just like loosening the grip.
• 28:56
  Speaker D: Right.
• 28:56
  Speaker C: Is the first step. And then like taking one hand off and letting the universe put a hand on. So I'm like co creating with the universe. Oftentimes people associate surrender with giving up. Like, I'm giving up. I'm giving up trying. No, it's giving up some control. It's giving up some spaciousness, some time, some energy so that other forces can come in and support. And it's been so amazing, like in doing that, like I met you, I met Callan, I met Reno, I met all these people through my own surrendering and just letting go. The brotherhood has evolved into what it is. Because, you know, I, you, Callan, we all practiced control. Surrender. Control, surrender.
• 29:38
  Speaker D: Right.
• 29:39
  Speaker C: Like constriction, expansion. I think so. It's. I think spiritually it's important to discern when to surrender versus when to take inspired action.
• 29:50
  Speaker D: Right.
• 29:50
  Speaker C: I think. And that's what makes somebody spiritually wise, in my opinion, is somebody that knows when to discern when to apply which spiritual practice, at what time.
• 29:59
  Speaker B: The, the giving up is Is the giving up the suffering and giving up the struggle. That's what you're giving up. Yeah.
• 30:09
  Speaker C: Making room for peace.
• 30:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And let's just go back to the fact that the question is, you know, what helps you move into acceptance while you're still hurting?
• 30:17
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 30:17
  Speaker B: I think in that moment, you're still hurting. You can't really see that there's a way out, and that's where the faith comes in. But once you've gone through those phases and it can take as long as it takes, then, you know, you. You start to develop that new normal already. Like, you start to learn to live without the person, or you start to learn to be this new version, whatever that means, or living this new life, whatever that looks like. So acceptance might be easier, I'm gonna say, once the pain subsides, but I just want everyone to know you can still find it, even while you're still hurting.
• 30:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I like that.
• 30:56
  Speaker B: I want to share with the audience out there five of my favorite coping statements. You can call it a mantra if you want. You guys know I love to share these with you. I have five for you to choose from. So five of my favorite coping statements on when things don't go my way or grief or anything is. Nothing lasts forever. This is temporary. And that, for me, has always proven to be true. None of my emotional states ever last forever, ever, ever, ever. They always change. So that gives me some relief. Number two, I can't change the past, and my only relief is to accept it. Like I said, I've only got two options. One is impossible. The other one is very possible. Number three, this will all make sense one day, but that day is not today.
• 31:40
  Speaker A: I love that one. Yeah.
• 31:41
  Speaker B: Again, also proven to be true. Things don't make sense to me for a long time, and then eventually they.
• 31:46
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:48
  Speaker B: Number four, this moment is the only moment that I actually have control over.
• 31:55
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 31:56
  Speaker B: Kind of reminds me to be more present with what? What am I doing now? Instead of, I find when I'm grieving, I'm very much in the past, living in the past.
• 32:05
  Speaker C: You could also say I am the only one in this moment that I have control over.
• 32:08
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 32:09
  Speaker C: Many of us are trying to control other people and how they're showing up and wishing they were different.
• 32:14
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:15
  Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
• 32:15
  Speaker B: I love that, too. And the last one, when things don't go my way, it was always meant to be this way. Nothing has gone wrong. And I like to think of the story was written this way from the beginning, and I'm the one. My story is the wrong one. The one where Michael has a happy ending. It's not the right story. I was off. I was off script. The script was always, michael has an unhappy ending. It was always meant to be this way. Nothing has gone wrong.
• 32:43
  Speaker C: Yeah, I like that. Maybe you can put those in the show notes for people.
• 32:46
  Speaker B: I will, by all means. What final tips do you have, Matt?
• 32:50
  Speaker C: Well, I like the thing that I came up with a while ago. Less force, more flow. I am ready to let go.
• 32:57
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:58
  Speaker C: That's my surrender mantra.
• 33:00
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, I use that still. I have that written down by my desk.
• 33:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:04
  Speaker B: And I need that trust.
• 33:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. Ditto. Ditto.
• 33:09
  Speaker B: All right. Anything you want to wrap up with our audience on this series on grief?
• 33:13
  Speaker C: Just to honor your tender heart. We all have tender hearts and I think we all have these protector parts we've built around our hearts to try and be calloused to this insensitive world and just find moments in your life where you can put your hand on your heart and just feel the tenderness of your heart and let it. Let your heart grieve.
• 33:33
  Speaker D: Right?
• 33:33
  Speaker C: Let your heart grieve. Your heart knows how to grieve. You have to let it grieve.
• 33:36
  Speaker A: I really like that.
• 33:37
  Speaker C: Get out of your own way.
• 33:39
  Speaker A: Yeah. Beautiful.
• 33:40
  Speaker B: Beautiful. Well, thank you, Matt, for all of your contributions on this episode and the last few. Thank you to our audience for listening. If this one's just your first one of this series, please do go back and listen to the other three. If you've been with with us from the beginning, I want to acknowledge that it's been. It's been a emotional, deep journey. But that's why we have this podcast and that's why we love all of our audience out there who listens to this stuff and is not afraid to go deep with us.
• 34:07
  Speaker C: Amen.
• 34:07
  Speaker A: We love you.
• 34:08
  Speaker B: We need more of that. And reminder, guys. This podcast and YouTube channel are supported by viewers and listeners like you. So if you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and tap that thanks button to show us some love. By the way, if you want to hear episodes before they are released the public, you can subscribe on Apple to the early access option to listen ad free and gain access about two, three weeks before they are released. All of your support helps us to continue making content and supporting our community. So we thank you and reminder to join one of our many events within the gay Men's Brotherhood. Check out gayman's brotherhood.com and go to the events section and we hope to see you there. Bye, guys.