Latest / InvestBetter.™ Podcast / Is marketing an investment or just an expense?

Transcript

Is marketing an investment or just an expense? · InvestBetter.™ Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: At the time we met, I would have told you I had some level of understanding of marketing, and then you came in, and I realized I had no idea what I was talking about.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing is more about building relationships than it is about forcing someone to buy my product.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Entrepreneurs run out of time well before they run out of money.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: How does marketing become a good investment?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: People don't buy things, people buy people and momentum.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've done strategy with Dr.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oz and I've done strategy with Dr.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Axe.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: When I first come in, if they're not sure what they're doing, I say, What are the people that are best doing?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: The things I'm talking about, this has been the same way for the last 2,000 years.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you wanted to get buy a cow or I was selling cows that had great milk, what would I do?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I would go around and be like, bro, try my milk.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this is true for you.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: My first engagement, you sat me down.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't ask me, you didn't charge me anything.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, I sat in your office and you whiteboarded for me and you showed me all this stuff.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I was like, that was probably the most valuable financial session I've had in my life.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: My encouragement to you is it's time to sit down, like slow down and be strategic about it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Dude, thanks for being here.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's good to be here, brother.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so we met years ago outside of business world, became good buddies.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then I found out your superpower was marketing strategy.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and really a lot of strategy.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: You worked with a lot of really big names, a lot of big companies.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: At the time we met, I would have told you I had some level of understanding of marketing, and then you came in, and I realized I had no idea what I was talking about.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Help explain to everybody when you met me, we'll just use me as an example, what you saw we were doing to some degree, what marketing was to us.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: And let's in this episode together, like redefine how do you sp how does marketing become a good investment where you actually get a return as opposed to like I'm just throwing money on something.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I I'm gonna start this off by saying I have no formal marketing experience other than I'm one of ten kids.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're one of ten kids, you kind of have to, you know, to get your food, you kind of have to market.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're and I was number nine, so I was bottom of the totem pole to so to be fed, you know, I had to market.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: But um, no, I think this is a really good question.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a good way to start this.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that most people look at marketing as, you know, that marketing 101 class you took in college.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, and marketing as this thing that is kind of hands-off, you know, that we're gonna hire someone to do, or I gotta find a marketer to do, you know.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm a doctor, you know, I'm not a marketer.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um not a marketer, you know.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I know how to build relationships.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, marketing is more about building relationships than it is about forcing someone to buy my product, right?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh marketing for me is about you know, it's it's actually biblical.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for me, it's about I give to receive, right?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, where can I provide value to people versus having to start from you know, almost like a cold conversation and trying to convince them to be like, buy my product, buy my product, versus you're you're very you're very smart when it comes to to to finance and to all this stuff.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like show them.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that you know, to start this off, I think that the biggest shift, mind shift that people need to have is that marketing is not about selling people something.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: People don't buy things, people buy people and momentum, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: If they believe that you're going to help them, and the I believe that the only way to do that is to start serving them, you know.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I could go into a host of different businesses that I've worked on where we try, we tried, we tried, and then we're like, well, why don't we just help them become, you know, become the best that they could possibly be?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe in the process they'll buy from us.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think like right off the bat, I mean that's a big mind shift that everybody needs to have around marketing, is that like marketing is not Facebook ads, marketing is not social media.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if your Facebook ads are your social media, marketing is not email unless all of those things are actually driving someone to have success.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I like to say your free membership are the emails you send, the phone calls you have, the text messages you send.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's your free membership, right?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's how can I use those different tools to be able to help like actually help someone, not create a funnel to convince them to buy a product.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: I I do experience I think most people are frustrated about marketing, yet willing to keep trying something.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I know in the past I would outsource it and then people would create things, but it wasn't really measurable.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, and and they didn't really want to be held accountable to the results of it.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: It was like marketing was more just like activity, and if we do enough of it over enough time, something will probably come from it.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like something is better than nothing.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: But if you look at it from like an investment standpoint, if you can't measure the return on it, like there's a good chance a lot of people listening right now are spending money on marketing and have no idea if it's a good investment.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: How would you, when you go into these businesses, and as practical as you can get with some of these real examples, is step one you just saying stop doing what you're doing?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Let's evaluate what you're doing.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think step one is model.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Step one is who not how.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So unless you already have a lot of experience in marketing and you've learned, you know, you've learned stuff in other businesses, if you have no clue, whenever I go into a new business, or even if I get a phone, because I do strategy with everywhere, I've done strategy with Dr.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oz and I've done strategy with Dr.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Axe, I've done like in the doctor space, but then I've done strategy outside of the doctor space.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when I first come in, if they're not sure what they're doing, I say, what are the people that are best doing?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to have a business like Sten, sorry to, you know, but like, and you want to know what ads Sten is running, or you want to know how his funnel works or how his emails work, follow him, engage with him.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then another level, like I I was starting a news company several years ago, um, and like I didn't know anything about running a news company.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I called, I I we I ended up, I got on the phone with as many people as I knew that worked in news companies and I learned about it, you know.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say step one is don't guess to start.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like start where someone left off, right?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Someone else has done already done the work for you.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you're in a business where you're trying to figure out, well, what ads should I run for this, right?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I have an investment in a gym right now, uh or a group of gyms right now.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And when we were trying to figure out what ads to run, I was like, let's figure out.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you know this, but you can go to facebook.com backslash or forward slash, no, it's backslash ads, backslash library, and you can type in any business and it'll show you every ad that they're running.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so and that's free.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, it's part of the deal, is that you should they have to have their ads public.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the first thing that I would do.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't, I wouldn't try to just like start throwing things at the wall.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what people do.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: You just it's just a lot of pain that someone else has already taken for you.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's modeling, looking at what other people are doing.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can get if you want to figure out how to send out great emails and you're a financial advisor, I'm sure Sten sends out great emails.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Get on his list, maybe even just reach out to him and say, Hey, I do you mind if I get on your client email list just to learn about what you're doing?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: He'd probably say yes, you know, and so I've been shocked by how many people want to help as well.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so just calling and getting on the phone with somebody and saying, you know, if you're a a chiropractor, call another chiropractor and that you know is doing well and say, What are you doing?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then call somebody else and call somebody else.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you are an HVAC company, right?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's other HVAC companies, maybe not in your town, but in the world that do a great job with doing H with HVAC marketing, you know.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd say that step one always for me is model.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who can I model so I can get start from a good baseline?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because everybody else that's not modeling, if you're not modeling, you're starting eight steps back, but the people that are modeling, they could be new to the marketplace, but they're starting right here because you does that make sense.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So modeling is is by far the the most important.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: I find that in a lot of things.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: I know some of the trainings we do or when I work with a client, like so many people feel like they're starting over from the beginning and wasting so much time because somebody has already figured out some version of that path that you can just borrow from or replicate.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: As I was hearing you talk there when I think about marketing, uh everyone's marketing, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're marketing yourself to some degree if you were knocking on people's for better or for worse.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: For better or worse.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then I've seen some of the stuff you guys have done where it's like, man, you seem like you cracked a code.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then the question is like, how much money can we throw at this?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because we know it's going to work.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like some of the ad spend, I don't know, some of the companies, like what would be a monthly ad spend for some companies?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that the highest is probably like 60 to 70 million uh in ad spend.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um to do that, you had to have known it was gonna work.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's funny though, because it there was a point where it didn't work, you know what I'm saying?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's I mean, I like to work with businesses that are at the, you know, I would say 10, 5 to 20 million dollar range that are growing, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because they've already proven that their product works, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's a good question.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: Is your product even good?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, is your product good?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like it are we in a there's uh blue ocean strategies, and I think you we both know that book really well.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like there's blue oceans and there's red oceans.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Red oceans is where there's sharks and everybody's feeding and there's so much competition.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Blue ocean is where it's a blue ocean, there's no sharks, it's a wide open space, right?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the challenge with blue oceans is that you got to educate people on how your product works because it's not around, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I was involved in a collagen company.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: We were one of the first companies to sell ground bones, or we called collagen powder, right?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was a blue ocean, but nobody knew what collagen powder was, right?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to educate the the client on collagen powder.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: So your marketing at that time was less get them through the funnel fast.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was more like we have to even let them know who we are.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, who we are, and also like there's a difference between growing and scaling marketing, right?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Growing marketing requires, especially if you're a small business, it requires the founder to be very, very involved, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't hire someone to scale a system that you haven't even proven yet and you haven't even figured out yet.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I think it's very important that um yeah, that before you decide to scale marketing, step one is like get 10 people to get good results.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then get 20 people to get good results, right?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that that's that that's kind of where people miss more often than than others than not, is they're trying to scale a product that they haven't figured out the tweaks.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it's a bad product, but they're trying to scale something.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have a doc that I'm working with, he's a cardiologist, and he's got this product that's kind of like a it's a great product for everybody, but it's for everybody.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So nobody knows if it's actually for them.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I you've probably heard this before, but it's like okay, I have a um I have a specific defect in my heart because of an accident that I had six years ago that's called this defect, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I want to find a doctor.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I found a doctor that says he's a cardiologist.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, he might be helpful.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, then I have a cardiologist, then then let's let's narrow down a little bit more.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a cardiologist that focuses on defects.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's very I'm a cardiologist that focuses on early birth defects that are from this, this, and this, and I have a 90% success rate with these specific things.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Which one is more would you want to buy from?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I'm saying?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think from a marketing side, it's the product, but it's also like defining who our audience is and what that pain point is, and actually going after that pain point and not just general.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how do you go after that pain point?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't start with ads.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't start running ads and trying to guess with ads.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, get on the phone, talk to people, go meet with people.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like try to sell it to someone in front of you.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and we can talk about this a little bit more later, but I think it's just a critical thing is be get close to your customer.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we're always trying to scale digitally, ads, this, this, and this.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, get really close to your customer.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you have someone that opts out to your email, let's call them.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like it sounds crazy, but like get on the phone and be like, what was valuable?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: What was invaluable?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I kept getting this, this, and this, and I wish I was getting this.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they leave, but at least we learn something from that, you know?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's it's um the reason that people keep going in these circles and and and they're like, man, I feel like we're around it, circling the wagons again, and I'm back at the same spot again.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's because we're trying to scale before we actually like figure out how this model is going to work.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: How would you coach somebody up at times?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's difficult.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can't spend a dollar and expect every dollar of marketing to have like an immediate, quantifiable return.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I bet there's some stuff you've done before where it's like, we know it's kind of working or we're heading in a direction, but we're not getting an immediate return.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: How would you coach people up on like when you know your marketing spend is a good investment or you're just it's it's working you towards something that's gonna be a good investment versus stop doing that?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: You're just waiting for it.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just say something.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're an entrepreneur, you're giving up your time anyways.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Time is money.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what I'm saying?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I actually think that entrepreneurs run out of time well before they run out of money.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're just so busy doing all the things they don't know how to scale, you know, scale their time.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that, you know, a lot of the a lot of the businesses that I worked at, we have what we call a loss leader where you're losing money on the front end to gain the customer on the end.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Building trust costs money.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, back to what I was saying earlier, if you're at that place, chances are, now there's a variable, but chances are you tried to scale too fast, right?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because marketing costs at the beginning for most businesses is your time.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's knocking on doors.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even in e-commerce, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't need to you shouldn't be out running ads and doing all this stuff.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like your primary first thing that you launch.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and so you know, I had there was a business that I was working on, and we had spent probably about$200,000 on ads.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: We were trying to get the product off and going.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: We were uh at our last eight, ten thousand dollars, um and then the and then we figured and then the we figured out the funnel.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was a good story, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: But we were it was like the it was like what space was that in the it was like the Knicks in the playoffs.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: We just couldn't give up.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had to bring in the Knicks.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um what was that?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was the space.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well that was e-commerce space.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Got it, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, education courses, yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think that like I think the issue more often than not is people are so afraid to take the risk with the marketing, so they're not willing to spend the money.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that going back to what we said a few minutes ago with um, you know, modeling, learning your audience, learning what your product is, what's your angle, what's your positioning, what's your unique positioning?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: How do you learn unique positioning?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's modeling, but then when I'm on the phone with a customer, I'm learning what the positioning is.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and we have AI now, like record the calls.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm curious, uh, this question popped into my mind of knowing if your product's good.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: And there was this really cool clip I saw once of Gordon Ramsey going into a restaurant and one of the where he swoops in and he tries the food and he called somebody, I think the owner or the manager over, and they're like, What do you think the problem is?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And they just said, We just need more customers.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, No, what's the problem?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, we just need more customers.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, No, your food's terrible.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so, like, for them, it was like the idea, and I think maybe a lot of us business owners have been stuck in this.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if I just get more business, it'll solve a lot of my problems.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: But there's something before, like, to your point, like, Am I modeling?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Is the product good?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Am I getting success?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: For everyone listening right now, because every business owner listening is doing some form of marketing, what is what's like the first question they should ask themselves to know I have a problem that I need to solve before I talk about marketing, or no, truly, I'm I'm I have a great place in the marketplace right now with what we offer.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: It is figuring out the marketing and the spend in the format.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: How do you know the difference?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, again, I I I think marketing is simple.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if I keep saying some of the same things over and over again, you know, um, but you need to start with you need to start with like how do I know that the marketing works?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the David Molnar thing, because this is a good answer to that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: David Molnar thing is he all of his ad copy is are words that his clients said explicitly to him.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So all of his copy, his landing pages, his headers, all that stuff, it's not what he thought they said or a translation of what he said.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: He writes down exactly what his clients are saying.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Is he quoting them or is he just using the words?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, yes, he's quoting them, but I'm just saying, like, he's using like even the hero, like the headline on his website is exactly what a client says.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And there's it's definitely not in quotes.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's just exactly what the client said.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to know my customer.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, like if you're not able to convert on the phone with you hands-on, like at the beginning, you should be very hands-on in the whole process, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm calling people, I'm texting.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm first bringing on clients or working on a new business, I am very involved in all that, all of that process, the delivery of the product, the marketing itself, the marketing, all that stuff, because marketing is going to be manual to start.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for almost every, especially if you're a brick and mortar business, I would not rec, I mean, yes, you could run some ads, but I would recommend like your launch be actually going to people and talking about your product, getting people bought into your product, you know?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we overcomplicate it, guys.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is I the things I'm talking about, this has been the same way for the last 2,000 years, right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you wanted to buy a cow, you know, I probably even talked about this in the past.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you wanted to get buy a cow or I was selling cows that had great milk, what would I do?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would go around and be like, bro, try my milk.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I would talk to people.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: What are your needs?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: What are your needs for the cow?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't have enough space.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, maybe maybe I shouldn't go hang out with those people over there because they don't have enough space.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: These people over here have space.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's like marketing is, and and I don't know if we're gonna get in the flywheel today, but like the flywheel is the business model.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the marketing model.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I I thought I was a marketer at to start, even though again, I haven't taken well, I took one class in college on marketing.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um I realized that was it a required class?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you know?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Required, required marketing class, my one.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was I I graduated uh degree in biochemistry.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh but does that make sense?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like like that's what leads to it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually understanding that like what's going on, the flywheel, and again, I don't know if you don't get into that now, but the flywheel is I thought it was about marketing, it's about growing the business, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And business is not marketing, is not like this separate function, especially if you're not a large business.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like a separate thing that like someone has, it's everybody's thing.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, everybody's in charge of marketing, right?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's in charge of helping to figure out what is this product that we want to give to them and how do we sell it to them, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So like I'll just say like with my team, like I have a I have a um a strategy company where I work with mid-stage businesses.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: My team is coming to meet with stuff on a regular basis in our meeting and our conversations.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, John said this.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, we should do, you know, we got this type of person, and they said this this is the reason why they wanted to come in.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: It like all of that, and we're writing all that down, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's going into our our block for marketing copy.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I'll be honest with you, we have a consulting company that does very well, and this is gonna sound crazy.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have social media, I don't have a website, I don't have an email list.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have an email list, that's not true.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have an email list.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: But outside of that, I don't have all those fancy things that you're like, oh, maybe I should go do social media or go do ads or go do this.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, and again, it's a unique business.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're high ticket, but like, no, this entire business has been developed and built on relationships.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, at some point, I will figure out how to scale it and then I'll pour the fire, you know, pour money onto it, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: But like, does that make sense?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's almost we got to reframe the way that we're looking at marketing as something that we've got to figure this out.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and to figure this out, I've got to be involved.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a terrible marketer, well, you're probably not an entrepreneur, you know.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm saying if you're terrible, if you're like, I don't I I'm not excited about my product, I don't want to talk about it to other people, it's probably not you're probably in a business that you're in just because you want to try to make a lot of money, which I'm not saying as again, but you got to be passionate about it because the passion, like if you can feel the passion when you're I'm talking right now, that is what comes across to the customer.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and we want to get to a point where I can get all these messaging down, and yes, I could run ads or I could do this, this, and this.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: But right now, I got to show them that like I'm the person, I'm I have the momentum.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna help you get the momentum.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: You need to work with me.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: So let's jump into the flywheel.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: So this was a new concept for me.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: I had heard funnel, uh, I remember reading reading that book.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was like jab jab hook, you know, and the idea of like what you mentioned earlier, like give people something, like give them an experience first.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Versus, I think this is true in my business at times.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Advisors will kind of hold their best stuff back until someone says, okay, I'll be a client, and then it unlocks for you.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: I remember seeing your stuff back in the day where I was like, it feels like you guys are giving way too much away.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: And there was one time he told me, I think we were golfing, and you're like, oh no, we'll take a course that's paid, we'll break it up into different pieces and give it all away for free.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like people could get the course for free, but they would have to piece it all together, and people will still pay for the course packaged up.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: So that that was kind of my intro into like flywheel of like what's the first step?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then you're trying to move them to the next step.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not, hey, my name is Sten, Dave, be my client.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: That feels like I'm gonna hit you over the head.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: And hopefully you just say yes.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: So let's for everybody listening, if they haven't heard the term flywheel or they have, let's walk them through it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to say that this is not my formula.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have my this is my take on the flywheel.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: This has been going again.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think this has been going on since like ancient BC.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying the flywheel has been going on.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not like a fad marketing strategy that no, this is just like human, you know, how humans work.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so the flywheel is all about building relationships.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe Wendell can put up a graphic of this so you guys can see this as you're watching this.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: But the flywheel is about building relationships.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So and and there's there's kind of levels to the flywheel.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna give you guys level one.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we'll break into some of level two, which is spinning the flywheel twice, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because the spy flywheel is meant to spin.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So what you'll see here is we have attract, right?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Engage, convert, delight.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Attract, engage, convert, delight, right?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then it goes back, and then it goes back and starts with attract.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk through it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So step one is you gotta attract people gotta know who Sten Morgan is.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta know who Sten is, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta at least heard of him, you know what I'm saying?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so for attraction, um, you're thinking about ways, how can I attract, how can I get attention, right?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Early in business, you're building attraction by being like, hey, do you know anybody that does this, this, and this?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let me connect to my buddy Bob that you just attracted them in, right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Attraction, you know, at scale could be attract advertising, right?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Where I'm just getting someone to stop for a second just to look, you know.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, attraction could be um I'm giving uh this freebie away if you invite a you know, a this freebie away if you join my email list or whatever it is.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So attraction is I'm just trying to get their attention and say, Oh, I saw it.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: You can even, you even on social media, you ever have those videos?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: You it's somebody you've never seen before.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a great video, and you're like, huh, this attracted me over here.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're on my radar.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're on my radar, you know.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: You've worked with a lot of doctors in the past.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um I remember I see doctors with booths at events.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: Was that that was pretty much a good idea?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a form of attraction.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's a very kind of grassroots.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's don't know about me, now you know about me.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing, and again, these go like these flow together.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just like attraction, engagement, it's like attract and then degree.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, think about this when I'm going through this.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Think about if you're think about if you're married, think about you you building that relationship, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: The first step wasn't like, hey, it's nice to meet nice to meet you.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to get married?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's how a lot of our marketing feels like.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, it's nice, nice to meet you.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have a great thing.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to get married?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: The next phase after attract is engage, right?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have an engagement time, right?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Think about a relationship.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's that engagement time, it's getting to know them.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting what's the what's the goal of engage?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: The goal of engage is I want them to get in a win without any expectation of return.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you say, How can you do this?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: What if you have an e-commerce company?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when we were, I was talking about that collagen.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to make sure that they knew exactly how their gut functioned and all the things that they could do to improve their gut, even including things that didn't include my product.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: So water, food, sleep, all those different things.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: So engage, you attract people, they get your attention.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: I hear about Sten.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then my first engagement with Sten is like, and this was true for you, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I someone told me about it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: My first engagement, you sat me down, and I remember you like you didn't ask me, you didn't charge me anything.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I sat in your office and you whiteboarded for me and you showed me all this stuff.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I was like, I remember leaving there, I'd be like, that was probably the most valuable financial session I've had in my life.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you didn't, it wasn't, am I gonna buy or not?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was that wasn't even on the table when I walked in there.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, obviously, I knew that like you know that if I'm gonna go into this person's, but truly, like, I was like, I think he he just wants to help me.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, and then after it, but you ever been to a place where, like, remember I was at a dentist one time, and like be before I even like saw the doctor, I'm like, I'm working with these people.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter how much they charge me, I'm working with these people.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: The lady at the front desk was just so nice.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: She looked me in the eyes, they gave me got me water.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it was just, I can think the same, like there was a uh a barber shop in Nashville.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I first came to Nashville, I walked in there and it was just like, they were like, Do you want some bourbon?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, yeah, I do.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was like Friday afternoon.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah, I'll have a little bit of bourbon.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: The guy was so nice.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was like, you you know, when you're in a business and you're just you're already convinced before they even give you the offer.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's what good engagement looks like, right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um what I've seen in some of the really big companies, you like heavy education.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like we are gonna make it so obvious that the solution we have is like a gift to you, not even like a sell, because we've taken something you weren't aware of or slightly aware of, a lot of in the health space.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you've created this urgency based on education.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's where some of these formulas, like the PS path, you know, like problem solution, problem solution, problem solution.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think all those things are good as long as they're like organic and not just like, no, I had to create this funnel.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I did this email, this email, this email.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like that doesn't feel organic, you know?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and going back to just real quickly on engage, going back to what you said earlier about like the course, like breaking up a course and giving it to somebody.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why that works so well was because, and that's why what actually those courses are what really built the email list in that company is because when we're building a course, we're thinking about what destination do we want to take people to?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then we build content around that.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So once we started just giving that to people, it was taking still taking them to that destination, you know?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if I give away, I I would say the rule of thumb is give away 90% of your stuff for free.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, not all in one package, ready to go.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you sell.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: But like you can give away 90 to 95% of your stuff away for free.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And 5% of people actually get the results because that's not what it's not the information that they need, it's the accountability or it's the product.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's in the course space, right?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and again, and I could we could go into e-commerce and different things, but engage is all about getting them a free win without any expectation of return.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And people might say, Well, Dave, how are we gonna make money?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: You start building up a lot of people that have respect, you've attracted them, you've engaged with them, you've really helped them.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we've had several of these, even just in the past couple weeks of like you engage with another partner of mine, you know what I'm saying?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And afterwards, he was like, dude, that was really freaking good.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you didn't have any expectation of return.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: You just came, you have and again, I am I saying just give everything away for free.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Probably kind of, yes.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just kidding.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, not my time, but like I have, you have we have I have tons of playbooks, I have all these different resources.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm on this podcast, right?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is part of my free content.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is part of your free content.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is the free membership, right?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully, people listening to this podcast are like, this is really valuable, right?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Now you should think about the next step, which is any any thoughts on that before I'm trying to go back in time as I've for for me, I think there was a level of awareness first, like when we started hanging out together.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you gave me some very brutal truth, which good friends tell you.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, honest things.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd be like, oh, what I thought was okay was not okay, was not effective.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so the attract piece.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then as as we moved into engage, it was heavy.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: Educate people, be generous, where my industry can be like, hold your stuff back, because what if you give it to them and then they go and do it on their own?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's just more fear-based.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, it's in every industry.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a sports chiropractor, every chiropractor thinks the same way.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't want to dust them on the first visit or too fast, because what if they what if they feel better?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like but like no give now.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm thankful for this, and you were a big part of this.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, give your best stuff, like be a generous advisor, because then people think like, man, whenever Sten is in the room, good things happen.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's what I want people to think.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um so for so for me, the engage piece, I feel like made a lot of strides in that, mainly because like the generosity mindset shift of if somebody does want to take this and do it on their own, great, but that's just not everybody.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so as soon as you help convince me of that, it just kind of opened me up to be less restrictive, which I think people feel when you're like, Well, that's just a generous professional that doesn't have to sell me every time, and therefore it draws them in more.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it builds trust.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean again, if you're if you're in a relationship with someone and there's always a quid there's always some sort of, you know, I think it's called a quick pro quo or whatever, where it's like, hey, I I there's something that's on the other side of everything.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give you this, but it's like, again, I'm not against MLMs.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying I have some MLM friends that are like, come over to dinner, we're gonna play, we're gonna have a game night.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I get there, and it's like they're in a suit.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, all right, we're gonna um have you ever heard of this company?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, or we get the free Wi-Fi code.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's a saying in marketing is if this is what the paid stuff is, I can't imagine what or the free stuff is, I can't imagine what the paid stuff is.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's get let's keep going through this flywheel.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you have a tract, we talked about a tract just getting their attention engaged.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: You have at some point you're converting them.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't want to go too complex on this, but I want you to understand this concept.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna go through the flywheel multiple times, right?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: The goal is that they keep going through the flywheel because as you'll hear in a second, it's actually what drives more people in.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: So this first engage, this first conversion, right?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you attracted someone, you engaged with them, they saw your some of your social media, your content, whatever it is.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: This first conversion could be they give you your email.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now, once they give you your email, that was that they paid you, is their email, right?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they're in their place in their inbox.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: The next step is, and the final step is delight.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, delight has two parts.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: The first part of delight is if they if they got into your email list, give them what you said you were gonna give them by coming on your email list.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Actually get them the result, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like we were talking about.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: The second part of delight is educating them why it works, right?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's education, right?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because when think about this, and I and I'll go back to the collagen company as an example.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: When you have someone that they take collagen, maybe they have crow's feet on their eyes, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and they take collagen and their crow's feet, I'm thinking, I have seven sisters.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: One of my sisters, crow's feet goes away, right?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, this stuff works.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And now, and then they're being educated on why.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: When they're at the gym or with their with their friends, now they have all the ammo of you need to take this collagen, and here's why.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's because your skin is actually made up of collagen, and we don't eat collagen very much anymore.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you're having bone broth, we usually eat the breast meat of the animal.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: We don't eat the bones and the ligaments.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so this that's why it works, right?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: So delight actually then attracts more people in because a delight, if you've ever been delighted by a restaurant or by a by a product, it's like you're gonna, you're gonna tell everybody else to go there.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is the place to go.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love Giovanni's for Italian and in in Nashville.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have probably gotten 200 people to go to Giovanni's because I'm just like, I love this place, right?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of going back to the beginning, it's attract, engage, convert, delight.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And once you delight someone, they will go out and attract more people in, engage with them, convert, delight, right?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it, the marketing, the business grows, like as this it spins, the business in the center is your clients, the business grows, but it's not growing because you you are able to figure out or finigal a savvy marketing technique.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's growing because you're building relationships, right?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you should be able to look at your business and be like, how many people are for attraction?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: How many people are aware of us?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, then how many people are we engaging with right in a regular base?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not just talking about like views on social media, but actually engaging with do we have a good conversion process?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then when people come through, are they actually getting a good product?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then for our raving fans, this is kind of the final thing, and Hermosy talks about this a lot.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: We spend so much time on the people that are off track, can't figure out, and we spend such little time on our raving fans, the people that are obsessive about us.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Those people are the people that are great for innovation, great for going out and getting people.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you're high ticket, if you're an advisor, like you should be focusing on your top clients and giving them extra, going above and beyond for your top clients, right?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: The top 4%.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because those are the people that are gonna be delighted and go out and tell other people about it, right?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that's a whole other aspect, like referrals and all of that stuff.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: But when someone is delighted, they will go and champion the business for you.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: What are, as you say that, what are the things that do distract people?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes our noisiest clients, which maybe aren't our most profitable, which aren't our ideal clients, distract us because maybe the people pleaser in us wants to be like, no, we want everyone to be happy all the time.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: What are some other elements in the marketing space that can be distracting?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: Consultants or people are in there just trying to.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is the thing.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: You got to understand that every every marketer is marketing to you, right?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you're in someone's flywheel.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're in you're in about 16 people's flywheel right now.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that the biggest thing that people run into is um is shiny object syndrome.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I I just told you, if you're if you're listening to this, I just told you how to do it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you do it that way, and again, I'm not saying, but if you follow that model, it's worked for for millennia, right?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: That model's worked for millennia.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing is like people start, if people follow fads, and again, some fad are good.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you got in onto Facebook in 2008, man, you were crushing it.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody who crushed it, 2008 to 2011, the people were crushing with Facebook ads, right?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: And even, you know, up until recently, fate there's so many changes there and all that stuff.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like your core marketing needs to be rooted in principles.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can have things outside of that, Facebook ads, social media, all that stuff that's gonna come and it's gonna go, right?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the biggest issue that people run into is they offboard it too soon.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: They just try to bring on an agency and have the agency handle it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then and their conversation with the agency goes like this Hey, where are my results this week?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Versus agencies, if you're gonna bring on one, it needs to be a partnership, right?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're building this together.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Treat them like another team member, you know, and with the accountability of another team member.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and again, I mean, I just see people another thing is like people give up too soon.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have this idea, they have this model, they have this angle, and they like instead of getting close to the customer, figuring out, figuring out messaging, getting on it, they just go on to the next thing and the next thing or the next thing, or I'm gonna keep adding products until I find the product that people are gonna like, you know?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, and we've believe me, I have done that many times.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've lost a lot of money doing that, trying to add products, or make it's like it's really important that like if you're like if you're looking at the at your business, and again, there's layers to this, so maybe we can do you know more of these, but if you're looking at your business and you have a good product and you have a good job of attracting people, and you have a good job of engaging people and building a relationship with people.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And guys, as I'm going through this, don't be like, Dave, you just gave me like 18 things to do.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, you need to have a way to attract people, a way to engage people, a way to convert people, and a way to make sure that they get the results.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: All that can happen with one person, technically.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like for a small business, it could be one person.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: You could be the person that's attracting, engaging, converting to light them, right?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea of scale, like beyond that, is doing that, but better.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of having one way that we attract people, we have two or three ways to attract people.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of one, instead of just email as our way of engaging people or a phone conversation, we had an email, we had text, you know?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that distraction is the biggest issue that people run into.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you start to have a success or you try something, and it's like, man, like you were so close.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like just that little tweak.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: But you had this, your, your headline on your page was so off-putting that everybody bounced.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, but everything else was great.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, where does it come in?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: So my mind's going to every business owner listening, get in a room on a whiteboard, draw this flywheel out and self-assess.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: Is is is your flywheel complete?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Which area is is lagging the rest?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: But this is, you know, who not how?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: We've talked about this a lot.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what would it look like to have somebody speak into that for them?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: Is there enough content online to for somebody to audit this and coach you through it?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, AI might be able to help you be an accountability partner versus them trying to recreate it on their own, just listen to this podcast and do it.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: How do we help them accelerate?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I think that there is a level, a lot of this can be done.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on how much self-discipline and motivation you have, right?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you really believe in your product, this fault model this and go figure it out.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Call people, talk to people.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to encourage you to call people.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm on the phone with four or five people a week that have nothing to do with business.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about problems.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: We had a conversation the other week where I was just like, Stend's my boy, I gotta get on the phone, I gotta get on the phone with him and figure out this thing.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: He knows this, I don't know this.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you call me and say, I don't know this.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can you help me with this?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um so I would say um to ask for help is part of it.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like you don't have to do it alone.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, ask for help.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I I I think also there's a um there's a lack, there, there's a lot of coaches out there, you know what I'm saying?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of coaches out there that don't know what they're doing.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like that again, they have really good marketing to catch if you heard of NLP, but there was this whole fate, it's like neurolinguistic program where you're literally like training people to say yes to you, whether they eat whether they they want to say yes or no, and all of a sudden it's like, where am I?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: How did I get here?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's called, you know.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think that um, yeah, I think that that finding someone that you can talk strategy with is very important.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like someone that you can think with and whiteboard with.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is a shameless plug for me, although I don't really take, I'm not really taking on clients, but like that's what we do.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: We I'm not a coach, although sometimes the strategy requires me to, you know, coach you to get your head out of your you know what, but I want I I'm just there to be on the whiteboard.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm there as a strategist.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you do.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're there as a strategist.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that um it it's it's important to have thinking partners and not just having it all in your own head.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Can you do it on your own for sure?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that you're you're you're you need to make sure that you have, you know, you have it or you and your your partner or you and your team have what it takes.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think like hiring a marketing person on your team is the best right next step for most people, um, especially if the model has not been figured out.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I'm gonna hire a junior person that doesn't really know what they're doing to try to figure out how to market my company.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Not a good idea.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's if you're a small business, it's you and you who not how and calling.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a larger business, um finding a strategist, finding someone that has scaled businesses just like you very similarly.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean that, hey, I'm gonna go work with them, but uh that that's who I would be getting on the phone with and say, hey, what do you think?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, I like this one, I like this one.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that's good.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'd say.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, think about it.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: I remember when I was young growing up uh and thinking about investing, there's an element that like real estate is always a good investment.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then I get into my business and I start working with people, and I was like, oh no, real estate done the right way is a good investment.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think marketing, in my experience, is the same way.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like marketing for the sake of marketing is not always a good thing.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like marketing done wrong is expensive and distracting.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: Marketing done right is necessary.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think that entrepreneurs, not all entrepreneurs, again, like I said, not entrepreneurs entrepreneurs, all entrepreneurs have that that, you know, that skill, you know, but or that, you know, kind of natural skill to be able to drive it forward.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the things that we we talked about, I mean, I think that you know, if you're not doing who not how, if you're not modeling and follow these are principles that have been around forever.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not doing those things, then yes, that's wasted money on marketing.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like, oh, let's market, and you just, hey, here's a good odd idea.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: The chances of you land, I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's less than 1% of you landing just some some messaging that you had, sure, and that's gonna drive people in, you know.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why what we talked, like what I talked to you, what we talked about today is like these are all principles that you follow.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're not fads or hopeful things, right?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I would just, you know, remember that marketing is about building relationships.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing is not about some sort of thing that some guy has the secret sauce for something.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: There is some, there is stuff like that out there.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've just never seen a business that's been sustained, like sustainable on those things, even with the funnels and different things that we've talked about.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying not to do that stuff, but people that like their main strategy is I'm gonna find a digital marketer that's gonna take my business to the moon.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very, very rarely.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: To be honest with you, I don't even know if I can think of anybody that's had long-term success where they're just like, I'm going to offload it to somebody else.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: You are the person.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you are the entrepreneur, the person that owns this business, and you don't have anybody else in your team and you believe in your product, you are the first, you are the marketing team.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's your role to model, to ask for help.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, and I'm not saying don't take risks.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying take calculated risks, you know.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I do feel like entrepreneurs generally are risk takers.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think at times it's like the I'm willing to throw money at this because I believe in it.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: You can get away with that.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: When I get in a room with somebody and then someone starts asking questions like, why are you spending money on that?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: When you introduce accountability, I think that's when a lot of business owners are like, I can't defend this.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just trying.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: And the good news is I make enough money to get away with it.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the challenge for me is like, I just don't want to get away with it.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like I want to be responsible in my business, therefore accountable to certain things.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think for me, marketing was a big challenge you brought into my life because I was like, no, I'm just doing the stuff I've saw other people do, and it kind of works eventually.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, no, I don't want to operate in that average world.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I want to do something where it's like this turns into this, whether it's now or eventually.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be able to look back and say, that was, those were good, wise decisions, intentional decisions, and not just guessing.
• 45:10
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's why part of the reason about the reason why I have a job is because I look at businesses and I say, Wow, you're doing this, this, and this really well.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: But this is, and most of the time, it's growth, right?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's their growth process, is not, it's not that it's not working, you know.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a this is a message to everybody.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, Dave, I'm listening to you.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have a our business is actually successful, but I'm not doing any of these things and I'm seeing the problem.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's your job as a business leader, and and and and this is leadership and for another day, but like as a business leader, your job is to solve those issues.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, scale.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's why when I cut people look at me and they're like, Dave, how did you you have a perfect track record, like or a pretty dang good track record?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I just chose wisely and I looked at these businesses and I said, Hey, they're doing all these different things well.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a massive gap here, here, here, and here.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: That if we just brought attention to those gaps, and if you're like, Dave, what do you do?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: What's your secret sauce?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: Who not how, and modeling, you know what I'm saying?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm looking at what are other people doing in that area.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that um for the for those of you that are listening to this that are like, man, my business is successful, but I don't have any time because it's all spent on this, this, and this.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: My encouragement to you is it's time to sit down, like slow down and be strategic about it.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is a lot of lemon.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: What I found in a lot of these businesses, especially if you have success, you've already proven your product, there is a lemon and there is a lot of juice to squeeze out of that.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: But because you're so busy doing all this stuff, you're not, you're not seeing that opportunity, especially with marketing, right?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because marketing requires time.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be spend time with the customer.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: You got to spend time thinking, throwing things at the wall, figuring it out, you know?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, my encouragement to you, my final encouragement to you is look at your calendar.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have a block on your calendar that is like not 15 minutes or an hour, but several hours multiple times a week where you're just focused on growth and you're wondering why you're not growing, it's because you're not even thinking about it.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when you think about it, it's always about how can I delegate to somebody else to take care of it.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: This might be hard to listen.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: You have to figure it out.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta be the catalyst to figure it out.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, who not how, model other people, but you need to be the catalyst to figure it out.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no one else is gonna come in.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, very rarely.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've never really seen that where someone else randomly came in and they the product wasn't good because the product is the marketing is the product, right?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you're the person, you're the entrepreneur that you got to create that product.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen someone come in and just absolutely transform business that just wasn't working, right?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen people come in and, you know, scale a business that's always already functioning, um, but a business that's just not working, like that's for you to figure it out.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you get to a point where you're like, this really works, I got the mesheding down, great, you can bring somebody on and you can go into scale.