Latest / Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce / 335. Why Can’t I Let Him Go? …It’s Not What You Think | Divorce Identity & Grief

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335. Why Can’t I Let Him Go? …It’s Not What You Think | Divorce Identity & Grief · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

0:49
SPEAKER_02: So this is what I suddenly became aware of in the session this week, right?
0:53
SPEAKER_02: Is what if it's not him at all?
0:57
SPEAKER_02: What if it's the version of us that could only exist in that relationship, in that dynamic?
1:05
SPEAKER_02: And we call it, we really get hung up on it.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: We know that our listeners do, because so many of the episodes that are like takeoff episodes are around struggling to let go, struggling to let go, struggling to let go, right?
1:18
SPEAKER_02: But what if we are so confused about what we're actually struggling to let go of?
1:24
SPEAKER_02: It's not him, it's this certainty we derive from who we were because we hadn't done the work of becoming.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: Hi, love.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Don Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorce day.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: Today's episode is ridiculously powerful because it's based on an actual session that happened with one of our actual listeners this week.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: We start the top of the episode where we unpack the session because she said she was struggling with letting go of him.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: And about 10 minutes into the session, I had this moment where I was like, wait, this has nothing to do with him.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: So this is what we unpack in this episode.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: About midway in today's episode, we have this moment where we talk about why so many women feel like they're going backwards in their divorce recovery journey when they've actually been doing really good work.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: This moment where the grief gets heavier, the exhaustion hits, and you're thinking about him again.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: And this is where we teach you what's actually happening in that moment in your divorce recovery journey.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: And by the end of the episode, we hit this question that honestly kind of changes how we look at the whole recovery process as you're moving through divorce.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: And it's identifying that this might not be a letting go problem at all, and that many of you have been mislabeling what you're actually struggling with.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Because if that's true, then what you think you're stuck on isn't actually the thing keeping you stuck.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: Let's dig in.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: Ladies, I would like to tell you a story.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: We would love to hear this story.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: And it's like layered, it's like a gold mine of a story.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: And I happen to know that this story is about one of our listeners who's listening right now.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, what's that movie?
3:45
SPEAKER_02: Oh, the never-ending story where where the kid is reading the book and talking to the princess.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: The princess is talking to, and she's like, No, it's the never-ending story.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, and he is listening to us even right now.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: Can you hear the princess saying it?
4:03
SPEAKER_02: No?
4:04
SPEAKER_02: No?
4:04
SPEAKER_02: I've never seen that movie.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: What?
4:09
SPEAKER_03: I haven't.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: I I've never seen that movie.
4:12
SPEAKER_03: So I apologize.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: All right.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: Here is my story.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: So it was working with one of our women in a different D-word this last week.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: And she came into session.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: I think so many of our listeners are going to relate to this.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: She came into session feeling shut down, flat, heavy, like griefy, right?
4:39
SPEAKER_02: And and I don't even know if she recognized it as grief.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Maybe she did.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: And she was very frustrated with herself that this was happening.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: Sort of that thing that many of us do, like I should be further along, right?
4:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, why is this happening?
4:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what this is, but whatever it is, it shouldn't be happening like this because it felt like a backslide to her.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, well, I I don't know what it is yet either, but by the end of the session, we'll definitely know.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: And so she started talking about how she can't let go of him.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: And she's angry with him, all the things, like I'm not worried about her actually going backwards, but there's some level of rumination or, you know, about him.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: Some some lazy boy he's taken up in her mind, right?
5:25
SPEAKER_02: And she's telling me how she can't let go of him, and suddenly I was struck.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: This is nothing to do with she can't let go of him.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: And as soon as that clicked, that she thinks this is about letting go of him, but it's so clearly not what it was.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: I knew this had to be an episode.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: So that is my story with a freaking cliffhanger.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And now I'm gonna ask I'm gonna ask y'all to like unpack this with me.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: You ready to go on the adventure?
5:54
SPEAKER_02: Together?
5:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's do it.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: So my take is that it's not about him she can't let go of.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: It's the version of her where she knew who she was at that moment in time when she was with him.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: Because it because we we talk so much on this podcast about identity rupture.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: Identity rupture.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: And so this moment that I perceive she was in that I think so many of us have been in is I am relating this moment to this grief about him when it's really grief about who I was because I don't know who I'm becoming.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: I feel lost, I feel uncertain, I feel unsure about what's grounding my life or what's defining it, or maybe my purpose, or maybe my path.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: And and in the in the uncertainty and the discomfort in that uncertainty, we sort of circle back to I miss him.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: No, babe, it's you miss you when you knew who the fuck you were.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: Right?
7:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that so here's what I want to ask you ladies what version of her, me, you, right?
7:17
SPEAKER_02: Them that exists inside that past marriage that doesn't exist outside of it.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: For me, I think it's feeling like I woke up every day knowing what my life was, I knew what my job was, I knew who I was to everybody, the role in my family, the role in his family, in our little family.
7:42
SPEAKER_03: I just got up and I knew what my role was.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna add to that that I knew I belonged, I knew I belonged somewhere.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: And and outside of that, I didn't know I belonged, which is a problem, right?
7:57
SPEAKER_02: That's a huge problem.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: That it I only know that I belong if I'm in this marriage, right?
8:01
SPEAKER_02: And outside of this marriage, I don't know that I belong.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: That's a problem.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: Carry on.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: And I feel like I grew up in a place and and I loved the town that I grew up in, but I can always remember we had these great big mountains.
8:14
SPEAKER_03: And I always remember just having these visualizations, like as an older teen of like escaping, right?
8:20
SPEAKER_03: And just getting out, breaking free, getting over the mountains.
8:23
SPEAKER_03: And so I almost felt like I didn't belong in my town.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: It was very small.
8:27
SPEAKER_03: So I I had a really hard time with that.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: So then when I finally was able to bust out of it, even though it wasn't authentic to the core of who I was, if that makes sense, I felt like I belonged in something yes for the first time in a very long time because I was part of a military community, part of something bigger than me.
8:47
SPEAKER_03: You know, I had responsibilities and friendships, and we had things that were expected of us.
8:53
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it it was for the first time I felt like I would wake up and I knew without a doubt what the assignment was.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that this boils down differently for different women because at the time I got divorced, I didn't have kids.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: And so one of the things that really missed for me outside of the relationship that I got to do inside of the relationship was caretake.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: So, like the first guy dated, like I was so obsessed with buying his favorite flavor of Gatorade because caretaking was part of how I got my sense of belonging or whatever.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: So I think for moms who get divorced, they still get to caretake their kids, but then on the days they don't have their kids, they don't get to caretake.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: So it's like that's yeah.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: That was definitely my experience where like I don't I didn't know who I was in my marriage.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Like my my marriage was my role was his wife, making him happy, serving him, taking care of him.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
9:57
SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't I made these meals because that's what he liked.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Whether I liked them or not didn't really matter.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
10:04
SPEAKER_01: And so, but when we when everything happened, I still had my kids and I still got to cook their meals and take care of them and clean the house and do like I still had my role.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: I I maintained the house, I maintained our life, our friends, that role.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: But when they weren't with me, it was a full system sweaty pits, nervous clean.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: When the kids weren't with you, I could not when the kids were not with me, right?
10:37
SPEAKER_01: I could not function.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: I could not do it.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: So there's this piece, right, about our identity.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: Be we don't realize this is happening, but our identity accidentally gets built on roles rather than really knowing ourselves or understanding ourselves, right?
10:55
SPEAKER_02: So then when the relationship ends, then we lose things about ourselves because it was all tied up in our roles, right?
11:02
SPEAKER_02: So of um secret keeper, right?
11:05
SPEAKER_02: Or like last call kind of thing, or like what are all the roles, right?
11:10
SPEAKER_02: That when the relationship ends, maybe we didn't even realize are ending, but what are the roles that are ending, the versions of ourselves that are ending when the relationship ends?
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Like the role of knowing all of your favorite beers and the role of knowing all of your family drama.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: Like all of these things that we secretly derive our unconsciously, right?
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Derive our purpose and our identity.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: And then we don't realize we were holding all these things, or this is the scaffolding that we were using to, I don't know, mark who we are in time and space.
12:37
SPEAKER_03: Like even fast-forwarding 20 years later, post-divorce, I can still tell you what his favorite foods are.
12:44
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you what I used to buy him in his packages that I would ship overseas because they were his favorite foods and his favorite drinks, his favorite meals.
12:52
SPEAKER_03: Like I still remember all of that because yeah, but I couldn't tell you back then what my favorite meal is or any hobbies that I had or anything that resonated with me.
13:01
SPEAKER_03: Everything about my marriage was about him and yes, building a life around what he needed.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And my identity was so wrapped up on being the good Christian wife, like being the woman who brought him lunch at work and being the woman who protected him.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Like nobody really knew my my marriage.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: Like I was, it was very much surface identity and in um, you know, like his family events or or my family events or friends events or or whatever the event it was, it was very much, isn't he amazing?
13:40
SPEAKER_01: Isn't he wonderful?
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm just so he just loves me so well.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: I just am so you know what I mean?
13:45
SPEAKER_01: Like I just built him up constantly because I relished the role, my identity as his wife.
13:56
SPEAKER_03: So if we can make him look shiny and new, right?
13:58
SPEAKER_03: Then we feel shiny all the time.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: Does that make us shiny and new?
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: And so when, yeah, that's I mean, when it fell apart, it like shattered into like there was no gluing this mess back together because there were like everybody in our circle was like, what just happened?
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Because you guys were, you know what I mean?
14:18
SPEAKER_01: But that was my identity as being his wife and being this facade of a person.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: So this is what I suddenly became aware of in the session this week, right?
14:31
SPEAKER_02: Is what if it's not him at all?
14:34
SPEAKER_02: What if it's the version of us that could only exist in that relationship, in that dynamic?
14:43
SPEAKER_02: And we call it, we really get hung up on it.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: We know that our listeners do, because so many of the episodes that are like takeoff episodes are around struggling to let go, struggling to let go, struggling to let go, right?
14:55
SPEAKER_02: But what if we are so confused about what we're actually struggling to let go of?
15:01
SPEAKER_02: It's not him, it's this certainty we derive from who we were because we hadn't done the work of becoming.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: And so why does it make it so hard to move on in this spot?
15:21
SPEAKER_02: And why does letting go of him feel like losing yourself?
15:26
SPEAKER_01: For someone who isn't seated in self, someone who hasn't true to themselves, it's a lot of lot of scary because how do I like my eggs?
15:38
SPEAKER_01: It's such a simple question.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: That's a like a runaway bride reference, but like when you are I I was almost 40 and all of a sudden I didn't know who I was.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know, I kept on asking myself, how did I get here?
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Because as a you know, teenager, early adult, I was so I was so proud of who I was and kind of um uh uh obtuse about fighting for like you know, like um standards.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: I had high standards, right?
16:13
SPEAKER_01: And so you fast forward your marriage until it's not a marriage anymore, and you kind of have to figure out who how did I get here?
16:25
SPEAKER_01: How did I get here?
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: How did this drama build, you know, woman who is fierce in her feminism become a single mom at almost 40 of three small children and don't know how to know her eggs.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, like how did I become this person?
16:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's you know, we all know it's a lot of it's a lot of no's that lead up to the, you know, you it's it's a lot of I don't know, but like self-sacrificing, right?
17:01
SPEAKER_02: So I grew up, I would say, really codependent, right?
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Having to self-sacrifice, having to have too much responsibility at too young of an age, right?
17:08
SPEAKER_02: And I think many of the women we work with have that very similar story, like overfunctioning as teenagers and young adults, over-parentified children, like all of that, right?
17:19
SPEAKER_02: Where we're already learning to to like surrender our identity, uh, you know, to the family dynamic.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: And so there's that, right?
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Taking like we we start to derive an identity around being overly responsible, that caretaking piece.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: And then everything we've shared about how we organized ourselves around the role of wife, like I believed in him more than I believed in myself.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: I believed in him way more than I believed in myself.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to say I didn't believe in myself at all, but I definitely was sure I needed to be rescued by somebody.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: I needed to feel chosen, I needed to, like, I wasn't in an integrated way, in an embodied way, confident in myself.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: I knew I was smart, I knew I could move through academics, I knew I could pass a test, I knew I could get hired, I knew I could hustle, but I didn't have confidence.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that by outsourcing that confidence, right, then once I was single, I lost confidence.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: I didn't have it, but like I lost the confidence I borrowed from his achievements or whatever.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:35
unknown: Yeah.
18:36
SPEAKER_03: So I resonate with what Joy said because if you would ask anybody in high school or even like college for me, like to describe me like my friend group, I was confident as fuck.
18:51
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, I dated very assertively.
18:54
SPEAKER_03: I didn't put up with anybody's bullshit.
18:56
SPEAKER_03: Like I just, I don't know.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: Um and then all of that was an ego state.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: We were in ego state.
19:02
SPEAKER_03: It was correct, right?
19:04
SPEAKER_03: Because I always felt like I was online, if that made sense.
19:06
SPEAKER_03: Like my my system was always buzzing.
19:09
SPEAKER_03: So it was like when I got to the other side of that afterwards, I was so embarrassed by the fact that I had allowed this shit to happen to me and that I ignored all the red flags and I stayed in it when I was the one that always preached to my friends never to do that, you know?
19:22
SPEAKER_03: So for me, it was like shocking to the system.
19:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that I had literally dealt with this and this was what my life was.
19:29
SPEAKER_03: And I remember Joy.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: Joy, when you said that, it resonated with me because I built him up so much.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: Because again, yes, if he was okay and I could make him look like a rock star, then I get to be the rock star's wife.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: And that is codependency right there.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: If he's okay, then I'm okay.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: If he succeeds in his career, I mean I'm the trophy wife.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: If he gets right, like he gets all these accolades, I get the accolades.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: It's like um, we're a team.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: We're at um Yeah.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: Every promotion, every military medal, everything that ever happened with him award-wise that I could be by his side.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, right.
20:11
SPEAKER_03: Like I was fine as long as all those things were happening.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so here's the next sort of thing that, you know, is blowing my mind about uncovering this pattern or this dynamic, is women at this point in the healing journey feel like they're going backwards because all of a sudden they're back sort of smacked with grief, right?
20:35
SPEAKER_02: Or like frozen or heavy or exhausted, right?
20:39
SPEAKER_02: So many of the women in our program, like literally these last few weeks, have been working through parts of them that feel exhausted and it's all part of this.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: It's all part of their internal family system, right?
20:49
SPEAKER_02: Parts that feel overwhelmed with responsibility or overwhelmed with fears around rising into the fullness of who they are, right?
20:59
SPEAKER_02: And so women at this stage feel like they're going backwards in their healing.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm so curious to hear what you two perceive is happening in that moment.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: I see it like, well, wow, you actually did a good job grieving him and recovering from the issues around the betrayal or the him moving out or moving on, or whatever, you know what I mean?
21:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, wow, they've done such a powerful job of grieving the marriage, the person.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: And then it's like, oh shit, we're not distracted with that anymore.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: Now it's not about him.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: Now it's about you.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: But we have to tease this awareness apart because otherwise you still are, you know, it's still somewhat being identified as why can't I let him go?
21:43
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, no.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: But what are you two perceiving or seeing at this moment where women are afraid they're going backwards and really it's just they got to focus on themselves now?
21:52
SPEAKER_03: I say this a lot in the 12-month program.
21:55
SPEAKER_03: It starts, the program starts with us talking about divorce and it's all about him and it's all about the marriage.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: And then everybody reaches a point where it becomes about them and their childhood and their trauma.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: And that's when I tend to see women quote unquote backslide, right?
22:11
SPEAKER_03: And they're not backsliding.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: They're not when I see them trying to reach for the familiar because they're like, like it feels a little bit too raw for me, a little bit too close.
22:20
SPEAKER_03: So it would be, wouldn't it be much easier if I could slide back into that role and not have to deal with my own shit, right?
22:27
SPEAKER_05: Right.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: So for me, it's a very natural normal part.
22:29
SPEAKER_03: And for me, it's inspiring when I see that because then I know that they're on the brink of something.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: We're in the big work.
22:37
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: We're dealing in a whole different box.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: So I get inspired by it.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: So if she's not that version of herself anymore, what's the fear underneath that?
22:53
SPEAKER_01: The fear underneath that is like um it's so scary to kind of step into your truth, into your worth because it's familiar.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, the past is familiar.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: You knew what to expect, you knew what to do, you knew you knew, but now making decisions is exhausting.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: Decision fatigue is real, right?
23:19
SPEAKER_01: So like now you're making decisions on who you are, who you want to be, who you want to be in six months, the micro decisions, the micro movement, but it's a lot of, you know, I it you reach a moment like I had I had a cardiologist, like I my body because I was remembered that.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: I my body got so overwhelmed by right by the downshifting because I was so used to the drama and addicted to the drama and looked for the drama and looked for the things because I'm on alert all the time, keeping him happy, keeping my kids alive, keeping the appointments going, keeping the house da da da, right?
24:01
SPEAKER_01: So my I was I was so flooded as my body started shifting downwards.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Then it became harder because then I couldn't unsee it.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Once you see it as the pattern, the matrix, right?
24:13
SPEAKER_01: Then you you can't unsee it.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: And then you're stuck in this moment of like, I can't go back.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: Can't escape to being that person, that small little woman who hide.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: I can't go back.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: But also walking through the mire.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: I've been using that word a lot lately.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Like walking through the muck is so hard.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: It's so exhausting.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: It's your feet are heavy, you're sleeping.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: I was so exhausted all the time because I was doing so much mental work on figuring out what was true in that moment, who I wanted to be, and who was the programmed piece of me.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's exhausting, right?
25:00
SPEAKER_02: The body is recovering because it's been um so depleted.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: I also think it feels like a raw nerve to step forward into a process of becoming like a raw nerve.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: There's something about that vulnerability and that exposure that like every step I take forward feels like a risk in the world, right?
25:21
SPEAKER_02: To make a choice, to make new relationships or try new hobbies or get a new job or say things I've never said before, show up differently than who than the way that I showed up.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: It's like this constant vulnerability that is, I think, I don't know if does raw nerve land?
25:38
SPEAKER_01: Like Yeah.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: And ladies, I just want to say the three of us did this without homeopathy.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: So like zero stars.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: Do not remember.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, can you imagine if we'd had that tool at our disposal?
25:51
SPEAKER_01: No.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Zero stars.
25:52
SPEAKER_03: Homeopathy and IFS, I would have loved to have during that time.
25:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I did it without EMDR, without IFS, without homeopathy.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: Like, but did I do it?
26:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know.
26:01
SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
26:02
SPEAKER_03: I had vodka and a dance floor.
26:04
SPEAKER_03: That was my shit right there.
26:05
SPEAKER_03: Like, that's how I handled my shit.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: The vodka and a dance floor, and I was a party all night.
26:10
SPEAKER_03: Like that was great.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: I had yoga and group therapy and the beach.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: Big fat podcast therapy question.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: For our ladies, what would change if she realized she's not trying to get over him?
26:29
SPEAKER_02: She's trying to meet a new version of herself.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: What would change?
26:34
SPEAKER_03: Everything.
26:35
SPEAKER_03: Everything.
26:36
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I think that that's, you know, what we do in our programs so well is, you know, we send out those reflection prompts, but then I've got these little challenges.
26:45
SPEAKER_03: And the challenges, while they seem silly and small, they're the things that start retraining the brain to start making choices very small.
26:51
SPEAKER_03: And we're very we're stepping out of the box, right?
26:54
SPEAKER_03: Just a step at a time.
26:55
SPEAKER_03: Like, and and that is the huge thing.
26:58
SPEAKER_03: Those all those little small little decisions and actions lead to the really big decisions and actions.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: And it builds capacity to tolerate being uncomfortable, you know, being out of your comfort zone.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: Like, my God, I I knew how to do it.
27:12
SPEAKER_03: The way that I had learned how to deal with my issues my whole life was again to get under a man and drink.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: And that's pretty much what I used a majority of my life, you know?
27:23
SPEAKER_03: So it was like for me to actually sit with myself and learn to take those little challenges of like, hey, I'm gonna stay in tonight, just me all by myself and not distract and not self-medicate or soothe.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: That shit was scary for a while.
27:37
SPEAKER_03: And it took me a while to build capacity to be able to do that.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: But my God, was it a game changer on creating my life?
27:44
unknown: Yeah.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think that that advice is sound.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: To get over someone, you get under someone else.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: That's reasonable.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: But I think what we're defining in this episode is we don't have a letting go problem.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: That's not the problem.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: We have a becoming problem, right?
28:02
SPEAKER_02: We have a becoming problem, right?
28:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying we don't have a letting go problem.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: I think that for a period of time there's a letting go problem.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: But then there comes a point in the journey where we are erroneously labeling this as a letting go problem when it's really a becoming problem.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: And we have to help women better identify that moment in their journey.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: Cause it keeps them looking back when it's really the struggle, the avoidance is looking forward or being pr just being present.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Like I want, I want them to see the matrix and see what's happening in their lives and get so excited because like what if?
28:42
SPEAKER_01: Like what next?
28:43
SPEAKER_01: What's happening?
28:44
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know.
28:48
SPEAKER_03: I had two clients in the past two weeks that took trips by themselves for the first time ever.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:55
SPEAKER_03: Without kids, without anything, right?
28:57
SPEAKER_03: Like that is some magical shit.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
29:01
unknown: Yeah.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: And it's not the deep break.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say I got proud of myself for going to the next city over by myself.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: The next city over, yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:15
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm not sure.
29:15
SPEAKER_03: That's how I mean the small things, right?
29:17
SPEAKER_03: That that set the landing for huge things, you know?
29:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: I said that to Joy this week.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: I was like, because she was shopping in a couple cities over, right?
29:28
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, you remember when this would have been hard for you?
29:30
SPEAKER_02: Right?
29:31
SPEAKER_02: Like being away from the kids and all the things.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: So to our ladies, I do feel like I'm quoting Hamilton.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: Like I have a Hamilton soundtrack playing in the back of my head this morning.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: If if the ladies listening right now feel like they're still stuck on their ex, what do you want them to take away from this episode and understand about themselves that they are just starting to understand from hearing us talk today?
29:56
SPEAKER_03: I want women to start getting very curious about what their life could be like.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: If there were no fears, no limitations, no judgments, no people pleasing.
30:10
SPEAKER_03: What the fuck would you do to no responsibilities?
30:13
SPEAKER_02: No responsibilities.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: If you had no responsibilities, what would you do next?
30:17
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
30:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: And start small, but do something.
30:22
SPEAKER_03: Take a small step forward towards something that feels good.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: I want them to do it scared.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Like do it.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to be scared.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Just do it.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Because do it scared.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Because join, you know, meet us over in Cocoon.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Like it's free.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Like come over.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Just come see.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Because there's women and that are doing it scared.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: And it it it is empowering.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: And so it's a gift.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: It's a God-given gift to do it in community.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Do it scared.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: Do it in community.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: And it's free.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Over in Cocoon.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Just come on over.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: I do not believe that it can be done solo.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: And when I like you could do anything solo.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, Lord knows Tom Hanks did it on the island with uh what was that volume?
31:18
SPEAKER_02: He had Wilson.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Nope.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: He had Wilson.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: He even he had Wilson, right?
31:21
SPEAKER_02: But that's the point.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: He had Wilson.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh but you cannot recover your s your brain map from your attachment style solo.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: Can't be done.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Can't be done in your therapist's office just with your therapist once a one hour a week or every other week either, right?
31:34
SPEAKER_02: Like that's can't be done like that.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna add.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: And this is sort of a teaser from our Thursday VIP episode we're gonna we're gonna have on Thursday.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: If you're not in Cocoon VIP, you're gonna wanna be there.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: It's the room where it happens.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: It's the bridge to the deeper work.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: But the becoming problem really is tied to a belief in oneself problem.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: It's like if we believed in ourselves, if we believed we could have the things we wanted, if we believed we could do the things we dreamed of, or if we believed that we could shed ourselves of the burdens that hold us down, whatever it is, or we could step into the things we dream about.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: If we believed we we could do it, right?
32:19
SPEAKER_02: So it's a believing in ourselves problem.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: And that's part of the power of community, right?
32:26
SPEAKER_02: Because the way that we believed in our husbands more than we believed in ourselves, we also tend to believe in each other more than we believe in ourselves, right?
32:34
SPEAKER_02: But can you imagine a room full of women believing in each other?
32:38
SPEAKER_02: Like that shit is powerful.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: Like I need you two to believe in me when I don't believe in myself, and vice versa, you know?
32:47
SPEAKER_02: And so this is the piece.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: This is a huge chunk of the becoming peace, is cultivating a belief in yourself, which cannot be done without taking risks and um making choices and moving through that decision fatigue and being vulnerable and all of that shit.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: Like it's building a belief in yourself that it doesn't matter how many self-help books you read, it doesn't matter how many podcast episodes you listen to, it's a learn by doing thing.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: And I hear Esther Hicks talk about this all the time when studying the law of attraction.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: We do not learn in this context.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: We think we learn from podcasts.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: All right.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: We gather information from podcasts.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: We learn from doing.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: And so that's the piece in the becoming, right?
33:39
SPEAKER_02: We have to do.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: And that means that does mean it means leaning in, it means joining, it means doing the hard things, it means feeling the exposed nerve, it means being vulnerable, it means you can't build confidence without becoming vulnerable.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: Like that those two things go hand in hand.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: Courage and vulnerability.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: Brene Brown's, I think her um HBO, because she had a Netflix thing, but she also had an HBO thing, right?
34:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think her whole HBO thing was on how courage is like the core trait of vulnerability.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: I just got, I just opened a whole nother podcast episode right there.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: So Thursday's episode this week, right?
34:20
SPEAKER_02: The cocoon VIP episode is going to touch on this, is going to touch on the downfall of women who do not believe in themselves enough.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: And um, so stay tuned, meet us on Thursday.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: If you are not in Cocoon already, you are missing it.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: That's the one thing, right?
34:39
SPEAKER_02: We we talk to women and sometimes they say, like, oh my goodness, this podcast is changing my life, but I don't know what to do next, right?
34:45
SPEAKER_02: We want you to join Cocoon.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: That's what to do next.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: If you are not in Cocoon, please, please, please meet us there.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: It is one of the single most important next step you can take is meet us in Cocoon.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: In Cocoon, we have live workshops, we have connect calls, we have magic drops where we give away merch uh that will assist you in your healing journey.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: We have raw conversations, we connect, we have each other's backs, we believe in each other.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: So join us in Cocoon.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: We want to see you there.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: We love you so much.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Peace.