Latest / Dishing with Stephanie's Dish / Maggie Hoffman is a Host of the Podcast and Substack, "The Dinner Plan"

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Maggie Hoffman is a Host of the Podcast and Substack, "The Dinner Plan" · Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hello,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: everybody,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish,
• 0:06
  the podcast where we talk to people that are obsessed with food
• 0:10
  and they come
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: across their obsessions through cookbooks,
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: podcasts,
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: content writers.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're talking with Maggie Hoffman.
• 0:19
  And I was excited because I said I don't get to talk to fellow
• 0:22
  podcasters very often.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations on your podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is the Dinner Plan podcast.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maggie is the former digital director of Epicurious.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: She also has many newsletters.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to talk to you about that.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: The Dinner Plan plus what to drink plus the vintage table.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: You are my person.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe too many newsletters.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure it's a lot.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So where should we jump in first?
• 0:48
  Let's just let's talk about your newsletters because you
• 0:51
  already commented on my background.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of vintage pieces in the background.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: How did you start the vintage table or what was your first newsletter?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: it's a little bit complicated,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: but I actually started with what to drink in sort of a previous life.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was mostly a cocktail writer.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I used to review bars for the San Francisco Chronicle,
• 1:11
  and I've written two books about cocktails that were published
• 1:14
  by 10 Speed.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's like a whole side of my life.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was running a drinks newsletter for Epicurious when I was there.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when I left, that was sort of the going independent.
• 1:27
  I was able to send one newsletter to that audience and say,
• 1:30
  this is where I'll be.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I don't update that one as often, but I do have
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to talk about what I'm drinking,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:37
  when I'm trying new non-alcoholic beers or sometimes I'll share
• 1:40
  cocktail recipes
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: from new books I'm reading.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that one was actually first.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: My main gig is The Dinner Plan, which is a podcast and substack.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of a living, breathing system.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the podcast goes every week.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I interview a cookbook author every week.
• 1:59
  We talk about inspiration and where they find dinner ideas and
• 2:03
  the books they love.
• 2:05
  And then at the end of every show,
• 2:07
  someone calls in and shares what's in their fridge.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the cookbook author guest comes up with a dinner idea for them.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And usually these folks are people with cookbooks, often new cookbooks.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so in the Substack each week,
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: we share all of the links to all the recipes that they have talked about.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So people don't have to like take notes, anything they've recommended.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's all there in the newsletter.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then we reprint a recipe from their books.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can get a little preview of the book.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why you should sign up for the newsletter.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Someone told me they were taking notes on the show.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, no, no, no.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to do that.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: You have such good notes on the episodes.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I listen to these things over and over.
• 2:49
  You have like attached and linked every single recipe idea
• 2:55
  anyone's ever discussed in the pod.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's extensive, you guys.
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  SPEAKER_00: You got to follow.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have a big list,
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: which I think is really fun,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: of every book that has gotten recommended.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So each person comes with like two or three ideas.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that has become a very big list.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting close to 50 episodes in each person.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you do the math.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's the main project.
• 3:16
  And then the vintage table is a little side project and maybe
• 3:19
  they'll get merged at
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: some point,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: but I just cannot buy every piece of vintage tableware that I love.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought I should probably start sharing the links so that I get,
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: maybe other people will take them off the market.
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  That is smart because once you start like in that Facebook
• 3:36
  marketplace or Etsy
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  SPEAKER_00: channel of looking for vintage things,
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: they find you.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there's usually like a theme,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: sort of beachy things for summer or,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: whatever is the thing that I'm sort of obsessing over.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just for fun.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a lot of fun.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I find it very fun.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: When you were so how long were you the digital director at Epicurious?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was there a total of four years.
• 4:08
  I started as the senior editor under David Tamarkin,
• 4:12
  who's at King Arthur Flower now.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I took over running it when he left.
• 4:16
  And we're probably better off now because we have so many
• 4:19
  different avenues for
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: creators,
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Substack has really like democratized the creating world from podcasting.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Did you find like,
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: when you work for a big company,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: there's resources and podcast studios,
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  and then all of a sudden you're on your own and you have to
• 4:36
  figure it all out.
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  SPEAKER_00: Substack makes it so easy.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: Substack and all the other ways, you know, I think everyone's,
• 4:43
  ability to sort of launch their own independent media is truly
• 4:46
  exciting and people
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  SPEAKER_01: are doing it in all sorts of,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: not just Substack,
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  SPEAKER_01: but also their own websites and Patreon and,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: people have huge success.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that that is, I mean, I feel sad about that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is cutting into traditional magazine resources,
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  SPEAKER_00: digital resources,
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: digital archives,
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  SPEAKER_00: because people don't necessarily need that to be seen anymore.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: They can create their own engines.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I also like every time I get a magazine, it's a little bit thinner.
• 5:21
  I think like,
• 5:22
  oh,
• 5:22
  don't wait,
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  because I still love some of those traditional printed forms.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I love linear television.
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  And I also like terrestrial radio still like I want there to be
• 5:35
  all those things
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: and not have it be just one thing.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little more complicated.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't blame independent creators for
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: the shrinking of food media.
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  I think that has a lot more to do with everything moving to
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  digital and then sort
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: of being flooded with ads and then search changing so much.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's just so many things that have shaped that.
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  And I think it's incredibly sad to see so much of both book
• 6:11
  publishing and magazine
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  SPEAKER_01: publishing struggle
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  SPEAKER_01: It has to do with ad dollars.
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  SPEAKER_01: And,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  those are places where there are the resources for everything
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  to be tested and
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  SPEAKER_01: tested again.
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  SPEAKER_01: And,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  I think there's going to have to be a question of how many
• 6:32
  independent creators
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  SPEAKER_01: people can support.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think advertising is over.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think that is a way to fund some of this as well.
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  You know,
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  if an advertiser wants to support an independent creator,
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  I think that's great.
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  The budgets are going to be smaller than what they were paying
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  for something else,
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  SPEAKER_01: and maybe it can all coexist.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping because I think it ultimately if it raises all boats.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I mean,
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  we are consolidating in a pretty rapid clip with the top seven
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  media companies and
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  SPEAKER_00: social influencers.
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  But when you think about your podcast and when you conceived it
• 7:14
  and knew who you
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: wanted to talk to,
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  SPEAKER_00: what did that look like?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, did you know right away what you were going to zero in on?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh,
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  did I know I was at the beach and was taking a long walk with
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  my husband and sort
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  SPEAKER_01: of saying,
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  SPEAKER_01: if I were to do this thing,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: what would it be?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
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  SPEAKER_01: I had gone through the process of pitching a show to Condé,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: which they decided they didn't want.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I was pretty heartbroken and kind of had lost confidence.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been in food media
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  SPEAKER_01: about 15 years now, a really long time.
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  I actually worked in book publishing before that and blogging
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  and I was at Serious
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  SPEAKER_01: Eats in very early exciting years.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I love being a part of that community.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love being able to see what's coming soon.
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  Like one of the biggest joys when I first started at Epicurious
• 8:09
  was I showed up and
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  SPEAKER_01: there was this stack of cookbooks
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  SPEAKER_01: sitting on one of the file cabinets and people would sort of say,
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  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: does anybody have a copy of this?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Does anybody have a copy of that?
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  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is where I'm supposed to be.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I mean, you can see the stacks of cookbooks continue.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so I sort of was like, what will,
• 8:31
  feel like it sort of captures some of that excitement that I
• 8:34
  could do independently?
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  SPEAKER_01: And what would it take to do independently?
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  SPEAKER_01: And who would I want to talk to?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: What new books am I excited about?
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  SPEAKER_01: And just what would that conversation be?
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  SPEAKER_01: And I knew I didn't want it to be a podcast really about feeding kids.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's really not what it is.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's really for all cooks.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it focuses a lot on that moment of inspiration.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I was really burnt out
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  SPEAKER_01: And it was affecting my cooking.
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  And I think everyone who works really hard can feel that
• 9:07
  affecting their cooking.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm just coming off a cookbook launch or getting ready to launch.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes the idea of what to eat,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like,
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  SPEAKER_00: all I've done is cook this week,
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  like a million places for a million people for a million things
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  documented at all.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I just want a piece of peanut butter toast.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's fine.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: But even if you don't work in food,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think if your job is stressful,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: the world is stressful,
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  SPEAKER_01: everything feels like it's on fire.
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  SPEAKER_01: Cooking can be really nourishing sort of mentally and spiritually,
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  SPEAKER_01: or it can be a thing that causes stress.
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  SPEAKER_01: And how do you get to a place where
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: where it feels like it is soothing,
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  SPEAKER_01: where it feels like it's a meditation,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: whatever it is you need from cooking.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get to a place where your dinners make you happy,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: where you're delighted by what you eat?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so we talk a lot about that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that came out of,
• 10:05
  I had written a story about cooking burnout during the days of
• 10:08
  the early pandemic,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: and it was crazy.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: something I kept getting notes about where people would be like,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: oh my gosh,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: this is totally me.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the thing I come back to.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And people's answers are very different.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I sort of wondered,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: if we kind of bring up this topic with so many different food people,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: is it going to start to get repetitive?
• 10:26
  But sometimes someone will just floor me with a totally
• 10:29
  different response to this problem.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's been really interesting.
• 10:34
  We,
• 10:34
  during the pandemic,
• 10:35
  I've had a radio show about food for,
• 10:38
  gosh,
• 10:38
  18 years,
• 10:39
  I think.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And during the pandemic, we did a lot of that, we called it pantry panic.
• 10:46
  Because you were going into the grocery store with your mask
• 10:50
  and your cart or your
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: bucket,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: whatever you were putting your groceries in.
• 10:54
  And you were just literally like throwing staples in just
• 10:57
  because you didn't want
• 10:58
  to run out of yeast or flour or sugar and beans and rice and
• 11:02
  whatever you had.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'd get home,
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: you'd be looking at your pantry and like,
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: oh my gosh,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: how am I going to actually turn this into a meal?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: For cooks and home cooks, that was what we do.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: But for a lot of people that were two working families,
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: had really relied on a lot of convenience type of foods,
• 11:20
  that was a really new experience for them to be staring at a
• 11:22
  bag of split peas and
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: figuring out how to get that to the table.
• 11:27
  That was such a great,
• 11:28
  for me as a cook,
• 11:30
  it was such a great reorienting of
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: how we look at our food systems and how to help people.
• 11:39
  And it reinvigorated my love of cooking and wanting to write
• 11:43
  cookbooks that would
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: be for everybody necessarily,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: not like,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm from the Midwest.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: We cook pretty basically.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have access to a lot of the fresh stuffs on either coast,
• 11:54
  but we do have these great grains and we have all these things
• 11:59
  that are in the
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: breadbasket of the United States.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: It,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: That pandemic silver lining for me was going back to actually cooking.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:10
  I also think we saw the rise of a lot of small businesses that
• 12:14
  are making things to make.
• 12:16
  life easier and to add flavor you know there's there's so many
• 12:20
  more companies
• 12:21
  selling various you know sauces and seasonings and things you
• 12:25
  know i think i was in
• 12:26
  a moment where i was like oh man like you had to replace
• 12:28
  restaurant food with
• 12:29
  home-cooked food and was i really going to do something
• 12:31
  complicated and that's
• 12:32
  where you know i just am really cheering for these small
• 12:35
  businesses because it can
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: be so amazing to have those on hand
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you can usually mail order them.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And just thinking about like the condiments,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: like Chili Crisp is a condiment that has been around for a long time,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: but just came into the zeitgeist in the last five years.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: obviously the proliferation of hot sauces,
• 12:52
  but also like sumac and za'atar and some of these more world
• 12:57
  spices that we weren't
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: familiar with necessarily.
• 13:00
  It's really brought a whole new way of looking at your basic
• 13:07
  home cooking.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, some people have been cooking with those things forever.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 13:12
  But I also think the cookbook publishing industry is very slow
• 13:18
  because it takes two
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: years for books to come out,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very slow process.
• 13:24
  And so I think you're finally seeing so many more books from so
• 13:28
  many more voices.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have a guide.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're not just blindly using something you've never seen before.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Along those lines,
• 13:36
  are there like a handful of books that have come across your
• 13:39
  desk recently that
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: you're like,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: yes.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so many.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's like my whole thing.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let me think.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: there's so many,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: of the recent ones,
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Zainab Isa's book,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: third culture cooking is really wonderful.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: She, uh, was a bon appetit and it's just incredibly talented with flavor.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: She, um,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: does a lot of development for NYT cooking now,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: and that's a good place to find her recipes,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: but that book's really lovely.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Norma Rod's book,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: she was at Odolenghi,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: and her book is called Lugma,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: and she's from Bahrain,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: and that book is just,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: you just wanna cook everything in it,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: just really,
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: really,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: the photography is stunning.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, what else?
• 14:27
  Rick Martinez's new salsa book is really fun,
• 14:31
  and really just like a smart,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: thing,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: if you are feeling bored with sort of,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: your rotation of like protein,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: like if you are doing rotisserie chicken,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: can of beans,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: pasta,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: like if you were doing that rotation,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: the answer,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: when I talked to Rick,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: he was talking about how when you make salsas,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: like so many of them,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: you could freeze.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so then you can mix and match.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can pull one from your freezer.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:56
  toss that rotisserie chicken with a green salsa one night and a
• 14:58
  different salsa the
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: other night.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that was just like so exciting to me.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you use your freezer a lot?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I find like cooks,
• 15:07
  I have two freezers and they're always loaded and I'm trying to
• 15:10
  eat out of the
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: freezer constantly with very little success.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's always the challenge.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: You really have to keep a list.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: You really have to put like a freezer night on your schedule.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: My husband travels a lot.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I try to eat from the freezer when he's gone.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, this is super easy when I'm juggling.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I use the freezer for all kinds of things.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I do try to put sauces in there,
• 15:33
  but he had that problem of like chucking half of the can of
• 15:36
  Chipotle is in the
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: freezer.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just never get to it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Never.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: One thing, I did have one sort of freezer epiphany recently.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Not so much of summer food, but I often make turkey chili.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of my favorites, really comforting.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I always put beans in it, which is how I grew up with it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was freezing a big,
• 16:04
  big batch and realized there was no way I was going to fit this
• 16:07
  batch in the
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: freezer.
• 16:08
  But I'm just,
• 16:09
  you know,
• 16:09
  putting a can of beans in it and letting it simmer for half an
• 16:12
  hour.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:12
  So I was like,
• 16:13
  oh,
• 16:13
  wait,
• 16:13
  I'm not going to include the beans in the frozen version.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to freeze the part that is less bulky.
• 16:20
  And then when I take it out of the freezer,
• 16:22
  I can add the can of beans,
• 16:24
  heat it all up.
• 16:25
  And that way I'm not taking something from the pantry where
• 16:27
  it's fine and using up
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: the space in my freezer.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh,
• 16:31
  that is kind of like weirdly groundbreaking because I'm using
• 16:35
  Ziploc bags and
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: freezing them flat.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm using super cubes, mason jars, quartz pints.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: It gets tight in there.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm just... And I wonder if there's other things like that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was just trying to think.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you just don't need to add something bulky before freezing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe even like just sauces,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: like adding the meats where you can just quickly saute the meats,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: throw in the sauce and,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: huh.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: You might be onto something.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is exciting.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and especially I use the Instant Pot a lot in the summer.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: My kitchen's really hot.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're making just like a basic,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: shredded chicken in an Instant Pot,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: any sauce could be the liquid.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I also find like I make a lot of soups and stewy and brazy things.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's only two of us.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I cook like for eight.
• 17:36
  So by the time I'm done,
• 17:38
  after making the initial meal,
• 17:40
  having a leftover meal...
• 17:42
  maybe a lunch I still have like four portions and by then I
• 17:45
  don't want to eat it
• 17:46
  anymore so I'm like oh okay how can I freeze this and how can I
• 17:51
  make it into a
• 17:52
  handy meal for the next I give away a lot of food probably
• 17:55
  because of that because
• 17:56
  I just don't want to deal with it anymore yeah if you're recipe
• 18:02
  testing if you're
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: working on books there's just you got to share
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you've made three of the same thing and it's very similar,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: maybe a little dash of this or dash of that.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like, oh, I don't want to look at it one more second.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about the vintage table,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: just going back to that a second,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: we're seeing a lot of vintage things come back in vogue.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: So like the sterling silver platters and the farm glass and
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned Dansk,
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Food 52 reinvested in that company and re-bought it out of bankruptcy.
• 18:38
  Are there trends that you're seeing like with linens or
• 18:41
  silverware or things that
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: you're excited about?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love weird silver.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of how this all started is that my favorite thing is,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: and they're not that expensive if you have just like a tiny little fork,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: but you know,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: there's forks for everything.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lemon fork and an olive fork and a sardine fork and
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that a berry spoon I had,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I found this beautiful berry spoon that kind of had,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: it was pierced so that if you had like,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: something that was a little wet,
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: the water would run off and it was just gorgeous.
• 19:12
  And I put it in the newsletter and a friend of mine reached out
• 19:16
  and said,
• 19:16
  I have that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I got it for my wedding, for my grandmother.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I've never seen a similar one.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And there it was on eBay.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's neat.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:28
  And so,
• 19:29
  yeah,
• 19:29
  I'm really into the strangest silver you can possibly find.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny because you don't think about how many pieces there are.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you were like the first time I ate at a French restaurant with my
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: mother-in-law,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: who was very proper.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was so intimidated.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: There was literally like 18 pieces of silverware on the place setting.
• 19:49
  And I mean,
• 19:50
  I knew like from the Joya cooking diagram that my mom showed
• 19:54
  me,
• 19:54
  like,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: But there were so many pieces of silver.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I just waited to eat.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: I ordered the same thing she did.
• 20:00
  And I waited to eat until she picked up something and then I
• 20:03
  would pick it up.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And years later, I kind of confessed and we laughed.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, I didn't know what half of that stuff was.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't eat like that now.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 20:13
  And I like to have these little things like to set out snacks
• 20:16
  for friends,
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: put out a bunch of bowls of things.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's just like that the little serving fork.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know, on the plate of charcuterie or whatever is old.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to tell people,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: if you have pieces that are real sterling or fancy crystal dishes,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: whatever it is,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: use them.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like, I think we wait for this special occasion that...
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Our lives are special occasions.
• 20:39
  You know,
• 20:40
  we are being inundated with a lot of information and a lot of
• 20:44
  weird news.
• 20:45
  And if you can just have that moment of feeling luxurious by
• 20:49
  yourself or in your
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: own home or with your friends,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it breaks down the barriers of entertaining.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like serve beans and rice on crystal dishes if you want to.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Who cares?
• 21:00
  And like anytime you're in real life with an actual human is a
• 21:04
  special occasion.
• 21:04
  Yes,
• 21:05
  like get out that vintage coupe glass and pour yourself a
• 21:08
  mocktail or a cocktail,
• 21:10
  whatever.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have these...
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: My husband grew up with these little cocktail.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're like cocktail picks.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're for like an olive in your martini.
• 21:21
  And they're little swords from Toledo,
• 21:24
  Spain,
• 21:24
  which is where like swords are made.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they're real little swords.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he and his cousins used to like sword fight with them.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they're absolutely dangerous.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a terrible idea.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: But they're really fun for olives or for like,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: that little tapa that's like pepper and an anchovy and an olive.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: What do they call those?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Pinchos.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Pinchos.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we do that sometimes.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we had the little swords.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And one time someone was clearing the plates and just threw one out.
• 21:52
  Oh,
• 21:53
  I have to be a little like,
• 21:54
  so in the end,
• 21:55
  I actually ended up finding another set.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're around.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're not expensive.
• 21:59
  And so now the ones that were his grandmothers are like on a
• 22:01
  shelf sort of and the
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: eBay ones are in rotation.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty great.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: When you are looking for guests, do you search the internet?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you spend a lot of time on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's your...
• 22:18
  I have known the book publicist from all the different
• 22:20
  publishing houses for a long time.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So often I get an email when a book's coming out.
• 22:24
  I also go on just like if you go on a bookstore website,
• 22:28
  you can go on Amazon and sort by date.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can see what's coming out.
• 22:32
  You know,
• 22:32
  like here are all the books coming out in August under cooking
• 22:35
  and food.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I often do that.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm planning several months in advance.
• 22:40
  So it's,
• 22:40
  it's really sort of trying to figure out when is the right time
• 22:43
  to talk to somebody.
• 22:44
  And often,
• 22:46
  you know,
• 22:46
  people are juggling like a European tour and an American tour.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I try to talk to them before things get really busy.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And in fall, fall's the big cookbook season.
• 22:56
  And so there's so many new releases and some of them are too
• 22:58
  busy to talk to me,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm talking to some really exciting people.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, nobody would be too busy.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I always think it's kind of shocking.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: The first time I reached out to Yodem Odelingi,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: and I just was like,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what he's doing,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: but I want to talk to him.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's fun.
• 23:15
  And so I just like sent him an Instagram message and he replied
• 23:20
  and we booked an
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: interview for the radio show.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he was so delightful that we recorded a video podcast of it, too.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he was just so great.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And people were like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you got him.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, maybe sometimes people just don't ask.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just think you always can ask.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: People can always say no.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not strict.
• 23:43
  I'd say almost all of my guests are people with like a book
• 23:45
  coming out that week.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: But then there's also just people I want to talk to.
• 23:48
  I talked to Hedy McKinnon and now that was last year and she
• 23:50
  has a new book coming
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: out this year and maybe we'll do it again.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: this challenge,
• 23:55
  it can be interesting to talk to people in different moments of
• 23:57
  their lives.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: People who have just finished a book sometimes are
• 24:03
  kind of overwhelmed and it's not the moment where they're like
• 24:07
  thinking about
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: cooking for themselves necessarily.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be useful sort of across the board.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: When you are booking a guest,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: do you think about like,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe this is a separate question too,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: but the monetization of the podcast,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: do you worry about that?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're a freelance person.
• 24:28
  Is this like,
• 24:30
  I'm kind of thinking about the Substack algorithm and wondering
• 24:33
  if it's peaked.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: for,
• 24:35
  because people feel like they're subscribing to lots of things
• 24:38
  and people are
• 24:38
  feeling kind of poor right now because the economy has not
• 24:41
  necessarily been great.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you worry about that or do you just?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you about my business a little bit.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I'm making it up as I go, but very early on, I felt like
• 24:59
  I wanted the newsletter to be visible to everyone because it's
• 25:02
  part of the service of the show.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I want everyone to get all those links.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: and I want people to listen and I want it to serve as a reminder,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hey,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: there's a new show up.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: and the day that I published the show every week,
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:15
  it's going to show up if you follow in Apple podcasts or
• 25:18
  Spotify or wherever you
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: listen,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: that's that thing.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: But, um, so I have paid subscriptions as an option on sub stack.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that is people who want to support the show.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: The show costs money.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I record at a studio.
• 25:35
  I don't record at home,
• 25:36
  mostly because there's a construction project going on next
• 25:38
  door.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I recorded a studio with an amazing engineer and his team.
• 25:43
  So I pay them for the space and for the help and everything
• 25:47
  else I do myself.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is my full time job.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So in order to pay for all those things, I have advertising.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I sell the advertising myself.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm reaching out to people and saying,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: look,
• 26:06
  this is this wonderful audience that loves to cook and is
• 26:09
  looking for things that
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: will make their cooking life better or easier,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: more delicious.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And people are interested.
• 26:16
  And so the people who are paid Substack subscribers are
• 26:22
  supporting the show and to
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: thank them for
• 26:26
  every week I give away a copy of the author's book and that
• 26:30
  goes to paid subscribers.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: So my hope is that people might sign up for an annual subscription,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: it's 30 bucks,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: and then they might win a book.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: That would be 30 bucks and it would all work out.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a super exciting,
• 26:42
  I'm doing like a big thank you to paid subscribers for the 50th
• 26:46
  episode of the
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: show,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: which is coming up.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it is
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: An unbelievable prize.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be so awesome.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: But so that's the most of my money is not being made by paid subscribers.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have like not very many.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And but I love Substack and I love the community.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Something I'm really into is the notes part of it,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: which I think some people hate because it's social media.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there is a cool food scene on there.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And something that I do is just post my like actual boring dinner.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: not a picture.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally just like, this is my plan.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: First thing in the morning, I'll say, this is what I'm doing tonight.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be fun.
• 27:22
  And so most of the money that pays for the production of the
• 27:27
  show and for my full
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: time work is coming from advertisers.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful for them.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think when I listen to a podcast and I hear
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: a recommendation in the host voice, I often consider buying those.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I believe in the power of it.
• 27:45
  And I work with advertisers who I think are cool and it's a fun
• 27:50
  part of the
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: business,
• 27:53
  which is that I get to talk to founders of food companies and
• 27:56
  cookware companies.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I actually wouldn't give that up.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really fun.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's very unique because I came from a sales background myself.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've owned a couple of companies and
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Food is my full-time life too, but it's freelance.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm freelance radio,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: freelance podcast,
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: freelance TV show,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: all the things,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: freelance cookbook,
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: write a cookbook.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you cobble together the pots of money.
• 28:20
  And at the end of the year,
• 28:21
  you have 15 W-9s and you pay your own insurance.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: But there is a little bit of freedom in that that's nice too.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm impressed that you're doing all that yourself.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, freelance writing, I...
• 28:37
  would say there's so many great writers out there and people
• 28:40
  who are writing
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: features for magazines and that's their like full-time gig.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like those are really amazing people.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am an editor at heart really.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been an editor and it's harder to put together editing gigs
• 28:54
  And so the writing,
• 28:55
  the things that I was being offered weren't that exciting.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what if I just invest in this?
• 29:00
  What if I take a couple of months and see what it's going to
• 29:02
  cost and what I can
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: raise in advertising?
• 29:06
  And I told myself I was going to take the leap and not evaluate
• 29:10
  whether it was a
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: good idea or not for six months.
• 29:13
  And it turned out,
• 29:14
  we sort of said,
• 29:15
  okay,
• 29:15
  I'm going to learn how to do it.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to get better at it and try to make it good.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Then I'm going to try to grow it.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: and increase the audience and then I'm gonna try to monetize it.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's turned out that I've sort of done all those things at once.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is the dinner plan,
• 29:30
  and I can really think of no better way than to end this
• 29:33
  podcast than those last
• 29:34
  three minutes of you describing what it's like and what it
• 29:38
  feels like to make this
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: a full-time endeavor and why people want to listen and support you.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed this chat.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're really doing some incredible work,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: and I just like everything you're doing,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: so congratulations on getting this all figured out.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to put links to all the newsletters and the pod.
• 29:58
  I'll work on getting this episode prepared and send you a proof
• 30:01
  before we release it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: But thanks, Maggie.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you being a guest today.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk soon.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.