Latest / The Inner Well Podcast / The Dopamine Disaster Vs. The Inner Well: “I Want” Vs. “I Have”
Transcript
- The Inner Well Podcast: We all contain a space within that when enlivened and nourished will support us with unwavering stability, expansion, and peace of mind. Join us each week as we dive into honest, grounded conversations about transcendental meditation, consciousness, and growth, and what it means to live an integrated life supported by a foundation of creativity and calm. This is the inner world. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Inner Well. I'm Megan. I'm Danielle. I'm Emily. So today we're gonna tackle a topic that I think is really prevalent to what's going on in society. And we've kind of touched on addiction in general in some of our past episodes. But what we're diving into specifically today is what we're calling the dopamine disaster. And so such a great term. And it really is disastrous. It's a disaster. One of the things that I think is interesting, just to kick us off, is there is a societal misperception of what dopamine actually is. So many people think it's a reward-based chemical. It's not. It's the pleasure seeking, the wanting, the anticipation. It's the chase, not the reward. Enter social media, online dating apps. So I'm gonna start us out with a few stats that are pretty alarming and then we'll kind of move on from there. The average American spends four to five hours a day on their smartphone. They check their phone an average of two hundred and five times per day. Approximately more than 200 million people worldwide suffer from severe social media and internet addiction. And experts estimate that a minimum of 10% of Americans now meet the clinical criteria for social media addiction equating to over 33 million individuals. And those are just some basic stats. So I think this is a topic worthy of discussion. To talk talk about this whole reward-seeking addiction that we have and what are the things that we can do to help combat that. Yeah. So important. So you briefly mentioned social media and the online dating apps, which I think is such a relevant thing because let's be honest, we're all finding ourselves opening up our phones and on those apps. ⁓ sometimes even unconsciously and it's not that we're you know there's anything wrong with us they've been intentionally engineered. The tech companies know the psychology of this, the variable reward loop, and they've intentionally exploited that, or basically intentionally exploiting us to keep us hooked, to keep us in this endless scroll because you're not, you know, you might maybe you'll get something interesting on the next one. You get nothing, nothing, nothing, boring, nothing, not interested. Ooh, that catches your attention and that gives you that hit and then you're wanting more of it. And so or whether that's on the dating app, like nope, nope, nope, nope, maybe. And then but then you know, you go through fifty nos in that hope of that hit of like, ⁓ maybe. Totally. and I've seen that firsthand at times when I have decided to delete social media apps from my phone that I will be unconsciously opening up my phone. opening whatever app fell into that spot on my home screen and be like, why am I looking at this? This isn't something I would ever go and open up regularly. And so it is just, you know, fascinating and scary to see what a real loop we are stuck in with this. It's so wild. And yeah, that that different angle, you know, because I've sort of Always thought about dopamine as like, yeah, you're getting this reward, it's like a pleasure seeking, but that's not what it is. It's this experience of regulating. And so we find ourselves, you know, that experience that comes to mind is like, I mean, I've had this, I reach for the phone, and in that moment of reaching for the phone, there's something that spikes in the brain that, like, ooh, I'm gonna get something, I'm gonna have some experience. But what happens actually is I I look at the phone, I scroll, I do whatever. And then there's just simply a relief from that feeling of craving. And there's a really great book called Dopamine Nation. I don't know if you guys have read it. I'm like partway through. It's fascinating. But it's written by Dr. Anna Lemke. And she talks about this sort of spiking and craving, this sort of seesaw that we're on, that we're constantly in this state of trying to balance our levels of dopamine in our nervous system through these external. sources. So whether that's again what we're using is like the social media, because that's probably the most prevalent for us and we can identify with that. But it happens with a lot of different areas that it's not just that we're pleasure seeking, but when we don't have that reward or we don't reach for that thing or get that hit, we actually dip into sort of a pain threshold. So actually over time We have less access to dopamine. We crave more. We need more just to stave off the negative feeling that we're now feeling as a result of that depletion of the dopamine. So it's this vicious cycle. And what would normally satisfy our desires are, you know, some people play music, some people go walking. All of these activities start to register to our brain as. boring because it's not giving that same kind of hit. Because it's the, you know, one of the things that I think is just so fascinating about this. And, you know, I've seen it a lot in my own version of of relationships is this idea of intermittent reinforcement. It's kind of like what you were talking about with the loop, right? And this is part of what makes attachment theory so fascinating. We talked about this in one of our last podcasts, but When it comes to this whole idea of you know getting into relationship, especially, you know, with people that are on the spectrum of maybe they tend towards avoidance, right? And they are not necessarily ready of readily available for connection on the same capacity that others are who are on the anxious side of the spectrum where they're like. We want to connect all the time and let's talk and let's text. You know, that can be overwhelming for some nervous systems. And so when you pair these two together, it creates this intermittent reinforcement loop. And there are few things that are more addictive than that intermittent intermittent reinforcement. It's what Vegas runs off. It's like the slot machines. You know, you pull the slot, you pull, you pull the lever, you pull the lever, nothing's happening, nothing's happening. All of a sudden all these quarters come out and ⁓ my gosh, your brain just lights up. And it's the same kind of thing with these, you know, attachment styles, right? It's like all of a sudden you haven't heard from this person, you've texted, they haven't texted back. And then, you know, three or four days go by and you hear from them, and then your brain lights up in that same way. And so that's what creates so much of this addictive tendency is the thrill of the chase. And I think one of the fascinating things that We can really dive deeper into because we've talked about, you know, how this natural evolutionary principle of our mind is always to gravitate towards more. And, you know, I remember when I went to my first TM intro and I heard someone explain this. And even when I was giving intros myself, in the back of my mind, I was like, I don't know if I understand this because my mind doesn't always seek towards Pleasure. Like I get stuck in loops of ⁓ why me? Why this, ruminating on why it didn't work out this way and it could have been better and victimizing and all the things. That in and of itself is a dopamine addiction, which I did not realize. This whole experience we have of just running through the loop in our head of. Okay, well, maybe if I say it this way, maybe if it works out this way, or if A, B, and C happened, this could be the potential future. That's that chase that the brain gets addicted to, is the maybe if, right? And so where I think some of these techniques that regulate our nervous system come into play that create such, you know. A relief from this addictive stretch is, you know, the the brain in that addictive cycle is in this loop of I want, I need, I want, I need. And then when you can have some kind of technique that allows for the mind to feel satiated, all of a sudden you move into I have. Mm-hmm. Beautiful. And I think that's really, you know, you mentioned techniques. TM, so much of the research on TM is around what happens to the brain and the whole physiology when we practice TM. But because of this technique's ability to allow the brain to settle and the body to follow the mind and this whole experience, it creates this natural coherence in the brain. And so our prefrontal cortex, which is that, you know, CEO of the brain, it becomes enlivened. And it starts to regulate, it starts to balance, and all the hemispheres of the brain start to become in balance, which creates this global EEG coherence, which leads to more clear thinking and also a more regulated nervous system. So we get out of the fight or flight response. So there's so many things we can do, right? We've talked a lot on this podcast about all of us have this nice connection with nature that when we walk in nature, when we're around nature, it settles our nervous system. And that for me, it's it's sort of This beautiful thing I can do. I can go walk in the woods and ⁓ settles you down. But we don't have access to woods, or you're in the middle of your work day and you're sitting at your desk and you just got called into a meeting in 15 minutes. What an amazing thing that you can do. Okay, I can sit down and practice my TM technique anywhere, anytime. And it has that same beautiful settling effect. So it gets us out of that dopamine loop. And then the best part is over time, these neural pathways consistently start to wire in the brain. So that we are less likely to fall into the trap of the dopamine reward loop or these sort of very toxic cycles. Yeah, I think there's really something to that. I mean, one of the ways that I intentionally practice rewiring my brain to stay out of that dopamine loop is ⁓ when I go walking, like I'll I live in Austin and I walk town lake almost every single day. And I intentionally will not take my phone, I will not have my earbuds in, I will not be listening to podcasts, I will not be listening to music, I will just hold that space internally on my own and allow myself to notice the beauty in nature. It's one of the ways that I think our natural surroundings just show up to support us. One of the reasons why nature is so regulating to the nervous system is because. Nature in and of itself knows no resistance. You know, the trees aren't resisting the way the wind blows them, right? I mean, the flowers aren't resisting when the petals fall. There's something in that non resistance that regulates the nervous system and it gets you out of that seeking loop because you're able to sustain an experience of satiation. In your present moment, just being content with where you are and just taking that cue from you know just your atmosphere around you. And it it can be such a connected, regulating experience, you know, even beyond just the TM. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I have that in my garden. That's one of the things that I love most about it, aside from growing delicious food, which I love to eat and cook. But cooking is one of those things for me too. It just slows me down enough that, you know, and when I'm in the garden and my hands are dirty or I'm cooking and I'm doing something with my hands, I can't be on my phone. I'm not on my phone. And, you know, that's such a great practice of actually leaving it and le not having headphones, not even listening to anything. ⁓ that I think I'm gonna take and try to implement. I I went through a phase at the beginning of the year where it was so good and I was so intentional about it and I was locking myself out of social media for the majority of the day. And I noticed a huge difference. I was plugging my phone in in the other room overnight. And then life happens, things get, you know, routines get disrupted. We had this big ice storm here in Nashville. And I just found myself back in it because especially in that time where there was I was in this state of heightened stress and survival and uncertainty and That was the comfort thing I found myself going to. And it got me right back into that loop. I love that. I I too, I find that, you know, I take my walk and I instantly put the podcast on and I know and I have this little voice of like, ⁓ maybe you should just be quiet. And of course, the times that I do, I notice and I pay attention and I have these beautiful experiences just having that natural connection. But I think these are really good things to talk about because, you know, life comes up and You can always start a new habit and a new routine. I find that. You know, we can start fresh anytime and like make that little recommitment. And, you know, I want to take that challenge on to do more walks without my phone. That's gonna be my that's gonna be my I think we're all doing that. We're all doing that. I love that. Well, and I think too that there's this really interesting paradox about this because when you reach for, you know, your phone and you wanna scroll social media or you wanna look at the dating apps, right? It It actually removes and disrupts your sense of agency, right? Because you don't know what you're gonna get. And you're just at the mercy of the algorithms. Versus if you're cooking, right? And you're you're making conscious choices. I want to use these ingredients. I want to put this much, a dab, a pinch, right? Or you're like, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go walk. By the lake and not just around it. I'm gonna go sit and just notice the water as it ripples. You know, there's there's an element of choice point, being able to actually influence your reality intentionally that really pacifies the anxiety, you know, because you feel like you're in control of your destiny at that point. Whereas when you're at the mercy of the algorithms or you're depending on some external factor to bring you some sort of satisfaction and to, you know, finally pacify that I need, I need, I need, then it's anxiety provoking. Cause you don't know when you're going to get it or how. Wasn't ⁓ you'll use this great term when we first started talking about this. Dumpster diving for dopamine. I love that so much. It made me laugh. And I think it just nails it. But what we start doing. What's it's what we do. And it actually came to me like in meditation because of, you know, j I've spent the last year on the dating apps, and I've had my own personal challenges with it. And you know, I was just thinking about it in meditation and I thought, ⁓ wow, well, we should do a podcast episode on this. And You know, you had said, I think when we were on one of our calls, one of the meetings we were on, and the last few weeks before that, you said something about, ⁓ yeah, I got on, you know, the online dating app and you know was on there that dumpster fire for two weeks and then got off or something like that. And so I had kind of dumpster fire in my head. And then I was like, It's like dumpster diving for dopamine, you know, it r and it it so is, you know. I think that, you know, all of this that we're describing, right, is just the state of the world that we find ourselves in, the state of life where it's constant busyness and filling the gaps and filling the moments of silence. And that's the thing that we're really missing is that moment of silence or that return to the times we didn't have our phones, you know, and I I'm always reading articles about these days people a lot of nostalgia for the nineties, right? Or, you know, like, ⁓ when we could just go out and get on our bike and ride out into the sunset and not be home before. You know, these moments where we were bored sometimes. Yeah. ⁓ what I keep hearing, like bring back analog culture. Totally. Yeah. People are craving it. And I I mean I think it's a great sign that more and more of that is in the kind of cultural collective conversation. Yes. And you know that there is that move back to it. But I every day am so grateful I have this practice because we're not immune to it. Even though we're TM teachers and have this practice, we're not immune to it. We're in this world. We're absolutely deal you know, dealing with the hijacking of our dopamine systems by the technology companies. Like and if I didn't have this technique ⁓ my gosh, you know, I can't imagine what life would be like. I often find myself saying, I don't know how people get through their days without it. Yeah. Like especially that afternoon meditation. It is such, it's like a hard reset. And I have a whole other day ahead of me where I'm able to be present and productive if I need to be and enjoy, you know, my evening. Whereas I think without it would start to crash out after four or five PM. Yeah. I'd hit the wall at three. ⁓ Yeah. I mean and we all have that natural rhythm and needing to regulate. And again, you know, nervous system regulation, we've talked so much about it in these episodes, but it's such an important thing. It's such a buzzword right now. But that's where this technique really comes into play, like using it as a foundation. And as I always like to say, we say it's a foundational tool. So, you know, when I have those opportunities where I meditate and then I go out on a walk. I'm like maximizing that experience I'm having in nature because now I'm so present and I'm so open and it's effortless. It's natural, right? There's a lot of unnatural. I as this conversation was going, I was thinking about the people who kind of go to extremes. Have you heard of like raw dogging on the airplanes? Okay, I have not heard, please enlighten me. It's this weird viral trend where especially men are going on an airplane, ⁓ particularly a long haul flight, so like six, eight, ten, twelve hours, and not bringing a book, not bringing their phone, not listening to music, and not turning on the movie on the plane, but just staring at the seat for the entire ride, not sleeping, nothing. Wow. And that's a direction that I don't think is necessary to go in. But you know, what I think it's showing is there is this craving for something else. And people take it to the extreme, but that craving for nothing to get in the way of just our raw experience of life. Yeah. Just being. Just being. Yeah. Right. I that kinda reminds me of this ⁓ person that I taught when I was working in a program with veterans and first responders who he was a very senior leader. I could tell that he really got the simplicity and the ease of TM. When we were sitting in class, it was I think on the third Fourth day of our class, he said, So basically you're telling me that I can sit here and do nothing for 20 minutes and it's good for me. I'm in. And saw the profound effects that it had in the rest of his day and his life and his productivity and his leadership. ⁓ and you know, not that TM is doing nothing, but it is, it's the technique itself is so effortless that it doesn't require. that strain, it doesn't require, you know, anything external or focusing or trying or, you know, it's kind of the opposite of this achievement culture and this chasing culture. ⁓ when we allow ourselves through this tete technique to naturally settle into that silence, that stillness, that peace that's already there. Already there. But it happens when we don't try. It's all about getting out of our own way. Well, and it's a settled experience of silence, right? I mean, so many people, when they don't have stimuli, they contract around the fact that they have nothing to distract them from their reality, right? And this whole idea of being able to actually just settle in to something that is still, that is silent, and that is actually a pleasant experience of nothing. that lack of stimulation actually becomes something that you start to crave. And when you expose your nervous system to that enough, you know, then the neuroplastic plasticity kicks in and then you can Rawdog it on a flight and not have all of the contraction and just the buzz in your nervous system, feeling like you need to be placing your attention on something. Yes out here. I wanna underscore that because again, like meditation, this idea a lot of people think, well, that sounds miserable. Sitting with my eyes closed in myself, that sounds if we maybe haven't experienced it or we've tried something. That's gonna be an incredibly contracting experience where I'm just gonna be kind of trapped in my mind. And in fact, it is 100% the opposite. You find unlimited possibility within. It's a completely expanded sense. And you know, sometimes I think we throw these words around and it sounds poetic or metaphorical, like expansion, unbounded. No, you literally feel the lack of boundaries. And what that lack of boundaries feels like is complete freedom and joy and expansion and all possibilities. And then again, the best part is you come out of meditation retaining that lack of boundaries. So I love this topic, and it's a good reminder. I think we've come up with some interesting ways to analog our way through life a little bit more. And you know. As you all are listening, I encourage you to think about what are ways that you could turn down the dial on that dopamine response and you know, do something that adds a little bit more stillness, a little more presence and connection in cheer life. That's a wrap on today's episode of The Inner Well. Please subscribe and leave a review. Your support means the world and helps others find us. And if this conversation added something to your day, don't be shy. 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