Latest / All The Right Movies / Star Wars (1977) | Ep. 1 - Part 1

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Star Wars (1977) | Ep. 1 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

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All right, movies. Luke Skywalker was just a farm
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boy until he received a mysterious message from a
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Princess. Help.
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Me, Obi Wan Kenobi. She's beautiful.
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Star Wars Starring Mark Hamill. I'm Luke Skywalker.
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I'm here to rescue you. It's a little short for a
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stormtrooper. Harrison Ford.
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Boring conversation. Anyway, I think we took a wrong
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turn. Carrie Fisher, Alec.
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Guinness you can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall
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become more powerful than you can possibly.
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Imagine 20th Century Fox presents the most extraordinary
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motion picture of all time, Star Wars.
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Get where the fun begins. No legendary adventure of the
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past could be as exciting as this romance of the future.
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May the Force be with you in Star Wars.
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In summer 1977, George Lucas Star Wars blasted in the cinemas
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and changed Hollywood forever, telling the fantastical tale of
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Luke Skywalker and his hero's journey from farm boy to Jedi.
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It was the highest grossing movie of all time, made
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household names of Lucas and his cast, and became the biggest
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phenomenon in Hollywood history. My name is John and I'm here
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with Westie. Pokey religions and ancient
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weapons are no batch for a good blaster at your sidekid.
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And Matt? Somebody.
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Get this walking carpet out of our way.
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This is the podcast you're looking for on the Blockbuster
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that changed everything. We may not look like much, but
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we got to where it counts, kid. Hello and welcome to All the
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Right Movies, a wretched hive of scum, villainy and podcasts on
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classic and hit films. Today, one year in, we finally
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arrived. We're talking Star Wars.
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Amazing. As usual, we're going to have
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laughs and opinions. It will be more powerful than
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you can possibly imagine as we bring you the story of one of
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the biggest and most influential movies ever made.
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Just before we start, we love going on about Patreon.
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All the right movies are on Patreon, so if you'd like to
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access all of our Patreon only podcasts, as well as our archive
2:43
of older episodes, please visit patreon.com/all the Right
2:47
Movies. So fellas, here we are.
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Yeah. Finally, why are we talking
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about Star Wars Westie? Because it's Star.
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Wars. It is.
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That's why we're talking about it.
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It's an absolute phenomenon. It still baffles me now why it
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works so well, but it does. It hits every single note for
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me. It's really special film for me.
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It's probably the one that I watched most when I was a kid.
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It was the one when it just came on.
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It's a whole different world and every part of it you buy into.
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It's just so exciting, It's so engaging.
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It was just something that ticked every single box for me
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when I very first saw it, and it's still excites us now.
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I'm dying. Dying.
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Talk about. Well, it's a familiar story for
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me. When I saw this as a kid,
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obviously I adored it. There's a lot of great things
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and we're going to talk about them all, but I think the area
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where Star Wars stands out the most to me still is.
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Like you touched on there, Westie, the world building the
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world look has created is second to none in popular culture for
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me. If you were a kid with a very
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active imagination like I was, I'm still AM.
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That. World feels so vast and is so
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vivid on the screen that seeing Star Wars for the first time
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it's just a mind blowing experience.
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To quote Willy Wonga, as I always try to, it is a world of
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pure imagination. As you always try to.
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And Matt, what about you? Why do you want to talk about
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Star Wars? It's like The Beatles have just
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always been there. I can't really remember the
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first time I heard about Star Wars.
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I've always known what it was and I've always thoroughly
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enjoyed it. And even if you're not a fan of
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Star Wars. You'll be a fan after this.
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Oh, you will. We'll convert you.
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But if you're not a fan, you still know what it is.
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You still know who your order is.
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You still know what a Jedi is. So we have to talk about it
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because it's such a cultural phenomenon.
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And if we're going to talk about it, let's go at the beginning.
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Why not? Because it's still an absolute
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blast. Yeah.
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Well, before we get into it, some of the key details on the
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film. Star Wars was produced by
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Lucasfilm, distributed by 20th Century Fox and released on May
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the 25th, 1977. Filmed in Tunisia, Guatemala,
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the UK and the US, the film was written and directed by George
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Lucas, produced by Gary Kurtz and the main cast Mark Hamill,
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Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, Alec Guinness, Peter Mayhew,
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Anthony Daniels, Kenny Baker, Peter Cushing, David Prowse and
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James Earl Jones. Long cast list?
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Yeah. Good though.
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There's a long crew list as well, even longer.
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So should we go all in on the film?
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Let's do it. No half metres.
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Here we go, then. Next up, it's the beginning of
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Star Wars. Open the blast doors.
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What do you think of the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the start
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of the film? Lucas loved the 20th Century Fox
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fanfare and won. It would run perfectly into the
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film from it. So Williams composed something
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to match, and he made sure it was in the same key.
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When I hear that Fox fanfare, the first thing I hear after it
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in my head is it is a period of civil war.
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Star Wars is pretty much famous scene after famous scene right
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from the off. And we've picked out two great
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sequences that we're going to talk about.
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The intro to Luke Skywalker and Tatooine is coming up, but first
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we're going to look at the first few moments of the film and the
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opening space battle between the Rebel Alliance and the evil
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Galactic Empire. So following that big orchestral
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play of music and opening crawl, we're dropped right into the
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middle of an ongoing battle where a small battered spaceship
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is on the run from an enormous, ominous looking one.
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The first few minutes of Star Wars brings U.S. star
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Destroyers, Stormtroopers, Rebels, droids, and the most
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famous Princess and villain combination of the last 50
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years. What do we think of the opening
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Star Wars? Well.
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I mean, come on, When it settles, when that crawl fades
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out and it's just, you know, space and it's very calm and
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very tranquil. And then that rebel ship comes
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over and you're like, that's impressive.
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I'm impressed. And then the Star Destroyer
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comes over. I keep seeing yourself.
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Now I just get more and more impressed and more and more
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excited. I say, is this going to stop?
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Is this ever going to stop? Look at the size of this for
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massive it's unbelievable and then you go inside the ship and
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then you just think that looks even cooler than space does all
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of the sets in this inside that rebel ship.
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I've never seen anything like it before.
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It's just looks so pristine, but it says a long time ago at the
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start, so you buy that it's got a real retro out to it, which
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makes it even better now just looks timeless.
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It's got its own energy. And then Veda comes in and you
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know, this is even cooler. Again, just before that, it
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cuts. You see Princess Leia and you
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go, well, she's absolutely gorgeous.
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I'm buying into this. Ah, it's fantastic.
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It is. The word I would use is
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spellbinding. Yeah, it is that Star Destroyer
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rolling over the top of the frame.
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What an intro to a film that is in 1977 that must have just
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blown peoples heads off. I love how Lucas drops us right
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into the middle of a story that's already going on and he
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sets up the world in one shot. The rebel ship is small, it's
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being hunted like the rebels. The Empire ship is huge and
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powerful like the Empire. Lucas sets up his whole world in
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about four seconds. In fact, this moment is so
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genius I'm not entirely sure I believe Lucas came up with it.
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It's. Going to be a lot of that all
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the way through this isn't it? That must have been Spielberg.
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He had help. Lucas actually took the idea of
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opening the film in the middle of an event in a strange world
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for another filmmaker. Do we know who that was?
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No. So Lucas was a big fan of Akira
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Kurosawa, the famous Japanese director famous for Seven
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Samurai, Rashomon Ruin lots of classics and the idea behind
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this opening came from him. I've got a quote from Lucas
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where he said Kurosawa would open in the middle of 14th
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century Japan and not explain anything.
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He trusted his audience. I thought not only does that
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work, but it works great and that's where it came from.
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Oh nice, when you had been talking there I thought Kurosawa
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like rang them up and just went like start in the middle of the
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battle. That would explain it, to be
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fair, yeah. Exactly.
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There's not many moments, is there in cinema where you can
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watch something, you can pause it, point at the screen, call
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that right there, that chain cinema.
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Because as soon as that Star Destroyer comes overhead,
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everything changed. And so you said John a Lotus,
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the balls in nature have just thrown a straight into that
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story because it just puts you on the edge of your seat
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straight away. But you know, when you've got
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the rebels sign up the corridor, is that just me or do you think
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one of them really, really looks like Steve McQueen?
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Do you know the one I mean? Yeah, yeah, I know.
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You mean I know. You mean Yeah, I've.
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Always thought it looks like Steve McQueen.
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I'd love to like. I agree.
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All humans a bit further behind him.
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As Wesley mentioned, this is the first time we see the big man,
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of course, Darth Vader. What do we think of Veda as the
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antagonist of Star Wars? What's incredible, right?
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He only has 8 minutes of screen time in this film.
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Does he really? Yeah.
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Which is incredible when he thinks like the shadow he has
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over the whole of this film. I think he's just purpose built
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to do nothing but terrify kids because he looks terrifying and
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he sounds terrifying. How many nightmares is this
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character responsible for it's incredible entrance?
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I love how we almost get 2 intros to him.
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There's the first time we see him when he steps into the
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corridor after the battle and sort of surveys the dead bodies,
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and we hear his breathing for the first time.
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It's like, all right, yeah, this is the bad guy then.
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Yeah, Yeah. And then the next time I see
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him, he's choking Captain until he's like 3 feet off the floor
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and he just slams his body against the wall.
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He's. Yeah, instantly fantastic.
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He looks great. He sounds great.
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Sold. Yeah, I had 12 minutes of screen
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time, and we're not going to split.
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But I mean, I've seen it that many times.
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I just kind of know. But to put that in perspective,
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like Hannibal Lecter has 16 minutes in Silence of the Lambs,
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so Darth Vader has even less time to make an impact in what
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an impact? I mean, like you guys have
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touched on, that costume is unbelievable.
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It's just excellent. I love the stormtrooper, as I
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still do, as Lucas is setting this world up.
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There's no dialogue, but you know, who's the good guys and
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who's the bad guys? Like, immediately.
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He's one of the greatest, greatest cinema villains ever.
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Pat Roch actually auditioned to play Darth Vader, but it's David
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Prowse in the suit, of course, isn't it?
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Veda is maybe more associated with James Earl Jones, though,
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the actor providing the famous booming voice.
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What do you think of his work is Veda?
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But yeah, it's wonderful. It's the perfect pitch, it's the
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perfect tone, it's the perfect atmosphere that he brings to it.
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And then when you mix it with the breathing sounds, it just
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works so, so well. Do you totally believe it?
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I mean, I didn't know obviously until a lot later on that it was
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a totally different guy doing the voice.
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You wouldn't guess. It works seamlessly.
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It's perfect for the character. He sounds like he looks.
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Probably David Prowse, he's one of these actors who he didn't
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have the best of time film in Star Wars because they got a
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quote from me. He was still angry that they
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didn't use his voice and he said I was a victim of reverse racism
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because of the lack of black actors in the film.
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They were scared of losing a slice of their audience.
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Right. I mean, you can find footage of
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those scenes between Veda and Leia at the start before it's
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being dubbed so you can hear David Prowse's voice.
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Have you seen any of that stuff? Yeah.
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Yeah. Well, I mean first of all, for
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anyone that hasn't, check this out.
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You are part of the Rebel. Alliance and the traitor take
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her away. You are part of the.
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Rebel Alliance and a traitor. Take her away.
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I've got first hand experience of this because I met David
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Prowse. Look on your face when you said
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that. So smooth.
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Oh yeah. This is the only time we're ever
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going to have first hand experience talking about the
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films that we're talking about. But this is about 1989.
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Obviously Star Wars is massive. It's all taken off and Prowess
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is obviously trying to get a little bit more money back.
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So he does this kind of two around.
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He's in the original suit, looked incredible, but everyone
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kept asking him where Luke was, like where's Luke?
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And he's like, that's what I would like to know.
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But he used his actual voice. But he had a really shit vocal
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would have built into the matter.
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And he had a little speaker on his chest that had the breathing
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sounds. He sounded like Anthony Daniels
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and he was just kind of like, that's what I would like to know
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said to me, Mama. So who the fuck's this guy?
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Such dog what's? Happened to his voice.
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It's awful. I mean, prowess hasn't got a leg
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to stand on. It goes from being dreadful with
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Proust doing the voice to absolutely brilliant with James
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Hill Jones. Yeah, agreed originally, though
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Lucas did want someone else to do the voice for Veda before
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James Earl Jones. Have you heard who that was?
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Orson Welles. Orson Welles.
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Yeah, Lucas felt that he would have been too recognizable, so
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he went for JJ instead. Probably just, said Rosebud over
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and over again. Before that opening shot we
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talked about, though, Lucas gives us some exposition via an
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opening crawl. So every Star Wars film
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obviously begins with a block of yellow text that tells us what's
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been going on. It's a Star Wars trademark.
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What do you think of that as a way to open the film?
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I think it's great, and you know my absolute love of yellow
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credits, but there you go, A point proved yet again.
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But I think you got this from the Flash Gordon serials, am I
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right? I think you did.
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Actually, the Flash Gordon prologue did have that exact
13:56
same look to it because it does look cool.
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But it's one of them things that if you borrow it and turn it
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into your own, like a lot of this film, this film feels like
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what Tarantino does, but with a lot different approaches that
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shouldn't really work and smash together and lots of popular
14:10
culture that was kind of forgotten about.
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And Lucas, you know as an ideas man, takes these great, great
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ideas, spins them round and makes them look brand new.
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Absolutely, yeah. They are taking from Flash
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Gordon. Even the way they sort of go off
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into the distance, it's like Flash Gordon, isn't it?
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Probably more than anything else, the crawl just takes me
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back to being a kid and I think they completely suit the tone of
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the film and what the film is about.
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It kind of tells you straight away this is essentially just AB
14:34
movie, but we're really proud that it's AB movie and that's
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nothing to be ashamed of. It's going to be a movie with
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real style that you haven't seen before.
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Even like the Bat Star Wars films, the ones don't like, I'll
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still like the crawl on those. Huge.
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So have you heard how the opening crawl came about?
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No. Nope.
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So before Star Wars came out, Lucas held a screening of the
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film the some of his film maker pals and one of Lucas Palace who
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was there was Brian De Palma, the director.
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So this version of Star Wars and Lucas screened didn't have an
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opening crawl. It was straight in two shapes.
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Droids, Veda. Absolutely.
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Mendel and De Palma told Lucas as much.
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He said he had no idea what was going on and said that Lucas
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needed the prologue to set everything up.
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Lucas agreed with him and then wrote six huge paragraphs of
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exposition. He showed it to De Palma, and De
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Palma said, George, you are out of your mind.
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This is gibberish and it goes on forever.
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It looks like it was written on a driveway.
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Let me write it for you. So De Palma took Lucas at six
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paragraphs of gibberish in his words and reduced it and rewrote
15:37
it. So what we now see is the
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opening crawl to Star Wars was written by Brian De Palma.
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Oh wow, yeah, from that screen. And didn't De Palma turn around
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and say that's the worst film I've ever seen?
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So from meeting Leah and seeing her give something to a Droid
15:55
R2D2, we then follow him and his pal C3PO as they leave the ship,
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land on a desert planet called Tatooine and come under the
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ownership of one Luke Skywalker, a 17 year old farm boy.
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So we're picking back up after R2 has runaway to deliver Leah's
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message to Obi Wan Kenobi. In the scenes of Follower we
16:14
discover that some people write single file to hide their
16:16
numbers and meet the wise old Jedi Obi Wan.
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So what do we think of these first scenes on Tatooine where
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we meet Luke and Obi Wan for the first time?
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When you think about it, it's not one of these like crazy
16:27
decisions that just shouldn't work because there's so much
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jargon and names for night year with no explanation as to what
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you're what's a Jedi? Why am I excited about power
16:37
converters? But somehow they managed to make
16:42
work because what this film's got, it's got conviction.
16:44
And what I like about these early sayings is it just really
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builds up the mistake of it and the mythos and it, it just
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builds our day that there is a massive universe out there that
16:52
you're all going to explore. And I think these early scenes
16:55
and how do we just build that idea up perfectly?
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I agree, I think the world building here is just so good.
17:01
The first few minutes of the film are all in space and on
17:03
board the spaceships and then suddenly we're thrown onto a
17:05
planet and it could not be more different.
17:08
Barren desert for the most part, and the bits of civilization
17:11
that we do see just feels so real.
17:13
And the uncle of farmers, so we get that they're buying droids
17:17
from Jawas who are a bit like dodgy used car salesman.
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So we get that as well. And because everything we see is
17:22
so alien looking yet so familiar in how it feels, I think it just
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lets us totally buy into what we're seeing.
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And you're right, Lucas commits to it 100%, and that's
17:30
essential. Yeah, it's like, just accept
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what you're saying. Every single thing about this
17:36
film and every scene as the goal.
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There's just so many amazing ideas, and they're just
17:41
introduced at exactly the right moment.
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Yeah, the droids crashed down and then you see the big creat
17:46
dragon skeleton, which is actually still there.
17:49
If you go to Judaism, it's actually still there.
17:50
Is it really? Yeah.
17:51
Yeah, Right. That's it.
17:52
See you later, first flight. Tunisia.
18:00
It should be looking at it and talking about it should be like,
18:02
oh, come on, I want to get this over with.
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But it just seems so vast and so unpredictable.
18:08
So we've got all these like, different characters coming up
18:10
and there's no explanation. Like Matt said, you know, Jawas
18:13
are just loads of fun. They're absolute maniacs.
18:16
I love the Jawas. Do a language.
18:18
They speak, it's Zulu, but speed up. *.
18:24
Wars has a reputation of being classic storytelling, like tried
18:27
and tested narratives and tropes.
18:29
Something which I think is really interesting choice from
18:31
Lucas Thor is that we don't meet Luke, the protagonist, for about
18:34
20 minutes into the film. The star of the film is told
18:37
from the perspectives of R2 and 3PO and then when Luke comes
18:40
into it, it becomes his point of view.
18:42
So what do you think of that as a way to open the story by
18:45
Lucas? I think.
18:46
It's a ballsy choice but again, one that really, really works
18:50
because these two characters you're just getting to know and
18:53
you don't know what they're capable of or what the message
18:56
is just left and why they've actually gone there and why this
19:00
one is just beeps and bops and it's very, very well paced.
19:04
But it makes Lukes introduction even better because you haven't
19:08
seen any humans really until he shows up and then you're like oh
19:11
this is familiar and you buy into the story straight away I
19:14
do find. The beginning, just a little
19:16
choppy, a little bit too bitty for me.
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If this was the script wrote at film school or whatever, I think
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the professor would be sending back with a big Red Cross food
19:24
team. Look, come on, how many calories
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are you in the 1st 20 minutes? You know, the droids crash the
19:29
split up put 5 minutes later they just get back together
19:32
again. And then all of a sudden, you
19:34
know, now we're with Luke, right?
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Okay, who's this guy? So I do find it a little pity
19:37
for me. A law, yeah, maybe that was what
19:40
Lucas intended and he wants to just force in the deep end.
19:43
So when we do meet Luke, we just really got to see a human like
19:46
right. Just please stay with this
19:48
character. Please stay with him for more
19:49
than 5 minutes to need something to kind of hang on to here.
19:52
I'm just relieved we're not just following three people around
19:54
anymore, to be honest. Yeah.
19:56
Yeah, yeah, he's a pain in the arsenal and he.
20:00
Well, for the. Start Kurosawa was the
20:02
inspiration again. In 1958, Kurosawa made a film
20:05
called The Hidden Fortress. It's a story about rescuing a
20:08
Princess, and it's told from the point of view of two peasants
20:11
who become embroiled in the story.
20:13
Lucas changed peasants to droids and decided to tell the story
20:16
from their perspective. At the start he was.
20:19
Obviously just some massive, massive infants.
20:21
Kurosawa wasn't young Lucas because it wasn't just like the
20:23
story beat he took. He took an actual visual
20:25
element, which is how he edited the film.
20:27
And you know, those famous wipes are transitioned from 1 scene to
20:30
the other. Oh yeah, completely lifted from
20:32
Kurosawa. Yeah, I think now.
20:34
We sort of stolen them. Wasn't he a bit late?
20:35
Tarantino steals things now. You see that sort of thing in
20:38
the film, and you would think of Star Wars.
20:39
Probably not Kurosawa. Yeah, 100.
20:41
Percent, yeah. Speaking of the two droids,
20:44
Anthony Daniels played C3PO and Kenny Baker was the man inside
20:47
R2D2. What do we think of the two
20:50
droids as characters in the film I really like?
20:53
Them, and I think they're the reason why kids love this film
20:56
is early to do because basically RTM 3PO, they're just kids
21:00
throughout this film on there and not love the brave.
21:02
You've just having R2 not have any subtitles.
21:06
But the great thing is you still kind of get to understand where
21:08
he's coming from despite the like intonation of them.
21:11
Yeah, just a big, big nostalgic love for them, as I'm sure
21:13
everybody who first saw them as kids did. 3PO is my least
21:17
favorite character. He is an.
21:21
Asshole I love R2 doesn't give a shit R2 does.
21:27
He just does what he wants. He's great as a creation.
21:31
As you saw mentioned there, Matt, he's a bucket on wheels
21:34
who talks in beeps and whistles, but he's just got so much
21:37
personality. Yeah.
21:38
Definitely. I just don't know how they did
21:39
it. Did you know where the?
21:40
Name for R2D2 came from. All right, where was that?
21:44
When they were editing American Graffiti, their sound designer
21:47
came over and asked Lucas for reel 2 of dialogue.
21:50
So it was reel 2, dialogue 2, right?
21:53
So he asked him for R2D2. So Lucas sort of heard that.
21:55
He said I like that, I'm going to keep that.
21:56
Nice. Lucas inspiration for the droids
21:59
came from the three robots in Silent Running, and it's pretty
22:01
well known now that Anthony Daniels and Kenny Baker didn't
22:04
get on at the time or afterwards.
22:06
I heard that. Anthony Daniels didn't really
22:08
get on with anybody. No, Yeah.
22:10
Tricky customer by the sounds of it.
22:12
Well, he used to. Call Baker little man because
22:14
Baker was 3 foot 8, which is awful.
22:17
Yeah, exactly. Dick move.
22:19
And Baker was asked to go to a Star Wars convention, one of the
22:21
guests of honor in the early 80s.
22:23
And he said it depends. If his Lordship is going the one
22:27
with the golden balls, count me out.
22:32
Didn't all the. Crew that would go for lunch and
22:34
they would forget Kelly Baker. I was in there and didn't leave
22:35
him. That's so harsh.
22:39
Horrible. In the.
22:39
Tunisian. He'd be all right.
22:43
Yeah, he'd be all. Right, he's just boil it alive.
22:48
Danios, he has to take like adult magazines with him for
22:50
something to read. Is that why he's?
22:52
Like wobbling from side to side when they don't pick.
22:59
In the silly. Part of the film we're also
23:01
introduced to the other antagonist.
23:03
Grand Moff Targan is the guy who ruins the Death Star and is
23:06
played by Peter Cushing. Brilliant.
23:09
He's just the right amount of pompous.
23:12
He adds a lot of real serious tone to this dialogue.
23:16
I think if anyone else was doing it, it wouldn't quite work.
23:19
But it's when he's, like, talking about crushing the
23:21
rebellion with one swift stroke, it's like, oh, yeah, I totally
23:24
believe it. Yeah, yeah.
23:26
You're right, the dialogue is one of the things that gets
23:28
criticized for Star Wars, but Cushing just completely knocks
23:31
out of the park. 100% right. Up his St.
23:33
Lucas originally thought about Cushing as playing Obi Wan.
23:36
Right. And when he.
23:37
Offered him the role of target and Cushing said what's the
23:40
grand muff? Sounds like something that flew
23:42
out of a cupboard. And Lucas also said about.
23:46
Cushing, I feel he will be fondly remembered for the next
23:49
350 years. By who?
23:55
Matt, what about you and Peter Cushing?
23:57
I'm a. Big, big fan of his anyway, but
23:58
I think he just gives this all such gravitas and he just
24:01
grounds it because there's always the potential thing for
24:03
Star Wars to go a little bit camp at times.
24:05
But then Cushion is one of those actors.
24:07
It just keeps it at the level it needs to be without genuine
24:10
menace. And I'm a particular fan of that
24:12
seniors with Lear. It's the first scene where Leah
24:15
drops like, bulky attitude when she realizes, you know, what
24:17
he's going to do to hold her on. And I think as an audience, if
24:20
you see that Leah is scared, then you should be scared as
24:23
well. And I think talking is a big
24:25
part of that. Or is it just my ease?
24:27
Or is her voice sound English in the scene?
24:30
Yeah. She.
24:31
Develops this like middle class accent for some reason when
24:33
she's talking to talking yeah yeah the only.
24:36
Time she does it, yeah, because. She got on so well with Peter
24:39
Cushion, like they became really close and she found it really
24:42
hard to dislike him. So I think what's happened is
24:45
they spoke that much onset that some of his accents actually
24:47
passed over, right? Those.
24:49
Scenes are great. I mean I think Carrie Fisher
24:51
holds a rowing against him as well.
24:52
Oh, 100%. Loves them are talking.
24:54
Dialogue ways like you're far too trusting.
24:57
Yeah, charming to the last. He's got such.
25:00
A good sneer. Sneer, Peter Cushion.
25:03
As well found the boots that he had to wear for the costume,
25:06
they were too small so he wore them for two wide shots I think.
25:09
But then every mid shot, every close up Peter cushions got nice
25:12
fluffy slippers on. I'll see now.
25:15
Bathroom Star Wars. The character is the.
25:20
Only person that I could say, yeah, he's Darth Vader's boss.
25:25
Absolutely, yeah. Star Wars moves at lightspeed
25:27
from the first second of the film and in setting up almost
25:30
all the main characters and a world that feels real.
25:33
It takes Lucas less than 30 minutes to accomplish what it
25:35
takes more science fiction movies 2 hours to not accomplish
25:38
exactly. The director.
25:46
The main. Man, Mr. Star Wars.
25:49
I'm talking, of course, about George Walton Lucas Junior
25:53
founder of ILM Lucasfilm in Pixar and the creator, writer
25:56
and director of Star Wars. I think he's worth a discussion,
26:00
isn't he? He.
26:01
Has to be. Yep.
26:02
So what are our thoughts on George Lucas generally, Matt?
26:08
I think. He's a massive weirdo, like.
26:13
Straining also. Punches him.
26:16
I just do. I just cannot figure out his
26:19
career because like, look at his first three films, you've got
26:22
THX, which is this kind of weird, slightly odd experimental
26:25
sci-fi. Then you've got American
26:27
Graffiti, 1950s Americana, really great, then Star Wars
26:33
blockbuster sci-fi, and then nothing.
26:36
And I just don't understand his thought process behind that.
26:39
This guy, it looks like he can turn his hand to anything and
26:43
then he just doesn't want to do anything.
26:46
It would be fair. Enough if he said ox, you know
26:48
what I've discovered directing this and for me, I want to just
26:51
work on stories. I want to work on pushing like
26:53
effects boundaries. But he doesn't.
26:55
He then like weird 20 years or whatever it ended up being and
26:59
then decides to go straight back in there for the prequel
27:01
trilogy. And like no one said I'm George.
27:03
Do you not want to like just direct something in between just
27:06
to kind of keep your hand in, Just keep yourself a bit sharp
27:09
And he's like, no, I'll be fine. I'll go straight back in but
27:11
don't bother. How's that turn out?
27:14
Yeah, exactly. Loads.
27:16
Of bother, yeah. And so.
27:19
I just don't understand how a man who had the world at his
27:22
feet, he could have done anything and he just did nothing
27:26
apart from me. Play out this.
27:28
Little universe in his head and you know, I'm thankful for the
27:32
universe he did give us. You know this isn't a total hit
27:34
job, but honestly I can't get my head around his crate and how it
27:37
panned out. Yeah, I'm going to play devil's
27:39
advocate a little bit because I think he does get a little bit
27:42
of a bad rap. Does Lucas?
27:44
He gets slated in some quarters from people like you, Matt.
27:48
I do understand why because his output for the last 30 odd years
27:51
has been absolutely terrible. But those first ten years, they
27:56
were some 10 years. He crammed into those ten years
27:59
more than most film makers can only dream of in their whole
28:01
careers. I think maybe people think of
28:03
him as a director and as a director, obviously he doesn't
28:06
stand up alongside his pals like Coppola, Spielberg and Scorsese.
28:11
He's been director and directed successfully, but I think he's
28:14
also a great idea as man. He created Star Wars, he created
28:16
Indiana Jones, and he's a great innovator.
28:19
He set up things like ILM and Lucasfilm and Pixar, so I'm not
28:22
really sure what he is. Yeah, there's no one else.
28:24
Quite like him. He is weird, but I do quite like
28:27
him. I'm always interested to hear
28:29
what you see is when I see me interviewed for stuff.
28:31
So yeah, I understand the criticisms, but I think he's a
28:35
big talent and I do actually have quite a bit of time for him
28:38
as well. Wesley, what about you, George
28:40
Lucas? He's a very.
28:42
Lucky man, isn't he? Let's be honest.
28:48
Right place, right time, Ideas, man.
28:50
He does THX. He tries to be Kubrick, he fails
28:55
American Graffiti, tries his hand at the 50s kind of happy
28:58
days kind of vibe, fails. And then he goes, right.
29:01
But what can I do here, right? I'll take Kurosawa, I'll take
29:04
all of these classic Western elements.
29:06
I'll base it in space. I'll have a Princess and I'll
29:08
take the classic, classic story that's been done a billion
29:12
times. Didn't have a clue what he was
29:14
doing. People had to come in and edit
29:17
it. He's best mates with Spielberg.
29:19
If I was best mates with Spielberg, I'd probably be a
29:21
successful director. And department.
29:25
Give us my advice. He's like a big kid who wants to
29:30
build a player den, but everyone around him is like an incredible
29:33
Carpenter. Well.
29:38
Harrison Ford was well, there you go.
29:40
That's why Harrison Ford's Han Solo.
29:42
And do you know why he did nothing after Star Wars, Matt?
29:44
Because he went fuck me, I've got away with murder there I'm.
29:49
Not doing that again. Going to roll around and there's
29:52
money like Scrooge Mcduck. Yeah, it's the.
29:54
Merchandising as well. He's a hell of a businessman.
29:57
He's a hell of an ideas man and I think he's out of his depth
30:00
working with actors. He's out of his depth actually
30:03
making stuff a reality. I think he needs other people to
30:05
do that for him. But everyone, cast and crew in
30:08
this bring his vision to life and it is an incredible vision.
30:11
So Westie. A big fan?
30:13
Yeah, Huge. He's going to be top part.
30:22
After graduating from the USC Film school in 1967, Lucas Co
30:26
founded a filmmaking company with his big pal Francis Ford
30:29
Coppola. So he was in there as well,
30:30
helping out another one. Fuck.
30:33
Me called American. Zealotrope.
30:35
So with American Zealotrope Lucas made THX 11:30 8/19/71 a
30:39
societal science fiction movie which was a huge critical
30:42
success but a commercial bomb. It did peak studios interest
30:46
though and the United Artists asked him if he had any more
30:49
ideas. On the back of that they gave
30:51
Lucas A2 picture deal. The first was American Graffiti,
30:54
a coming of age comedy drama set in 1962, came out in 1973 and
30:59
changed Lucas life forever. So do you guys like American
31:03
Graffiti I. Really, really love American
31:05
Graffiti. I think it's one where I will
31:07
absolutely defend Josh Lukes on that film was I think it's
31:09
great. And the thing and what's
31:10
interesting about it is if you read what he was doing at film
31:13
skill, he was really into like non narrative films.
31:16
And I think that absolutely shows American Graffiti because
31:18
it's not a film that's driven by the narrative it all.
31:20
It's just a bunch of characters driving around and getting into
31:24
different cars, going off with other people.
31:26
The soundtrack is immense and it's just got a really, really
31:28
great atmosphere to it. And I think he deserves a lot of
31:31
credit for that one. I'm a huge fan of it.
31:33
I'm a fond of it as well. This is the one where it feels
31:35
like a real directors film, doesn't it?
31:38
It really feel like it's been directed.
31:40
It was also just a bit of a hit. On a budget of just $777,000,
31:46
American Graffiti made $140 million.
31:50
Amazing. In terms of budget gross ratio,
31:53
it was more than twice as successful as Star Wars.
31:56
Well, really which? Isn't mental.
31:58
That second film, UAE, had given Lucas a deal for with what he
32:00
described as a space opera that's a bit like a Western, a
32:04
bit like James Bond. He loves Bond as a reference
32:09
every film. Every film.
32:11
And his output couldn't be any further from.
32:14
At this point Lucas had a 14 page treatment called the Star
32:17
Wars and UA passed on it Universal past Disney past.
32:23
There was a division of Paramount called the Director's
32:25
Company that was owned by Coppola, William Friedkin and
32:28
Peter Bogdanovich. Copela gave the treatment to
32:31
Friedkin and Friedkin says about it.
32:34
Francis brought us this script and I said what the hell is this
32:37
shit? Billy, he was going to direct.
32:42
This, Francis said. George and I said I don't think
32:46
so. I didn't believe George could
32:49
pull it off, and I was wrong. Well, fair enough.
32:52
So, Lucas. Then pitched the idea to the
32:54
head of 20th Century Fox called Alan Ladd on that pitch.
32:57
Ladd says. I had no idea what George was
32:59
talking about, but I knew he was talented, so I invested in him
33:03
and he greenlit the film with an $8 million budget.
33:06
It's also worth mentioning here the deal that Lucas struck with
33:09
Fox. So he agreed to get paid
33:12
$150,000 for writing and directing Star Wars, which
33:15
wasn't a lot at all. No, on two conditions.
33:19
I know one of them is to get 40% of merchandise.
33:22
He got full rights for a full. Right.
33:25
I thought it was 40%. Yeah, he kept full.
33:26
Rights through all the Star Wars merchandise, through toys,
33:28
boots, video games, clothes, everything.
33:31
And the other one was that he got full rights and control over
33:34
any sequels to Star Wars. Oh nice.
33:36
Right, so merchandise. For movies was worth nothing at
33:38
the time, so Fox agreed, and they were actually quite pleased
33:40
with that deal. Not bad.
33:42
In the last 43 years, that deal has made Lucas $6 billion.
33:46
Jesus. Christ, he's the richest.
33:48
Filmmaker of all time. Yeah.
33:50
So finally then, three years after American Graffiti, Lucas
33:53
had the go ahead for Star Wars. So what do we think of Lucas
33:56
work as the director of Star Wars?
33:59
I mean, it's his. Vision isn't it?
34:00
That's the thing. It's his real drive and vision.
34:02
And there was a lot of problems on set.
34:04
There was a lot of people disagreeing with the dialogue,
34:07
and I don't think anyone enjoyed it.
34:09
And I don't really think he was very good working with Agnes.
34:11
But I think his whole personality is what Star Wars
34:15
is. And I think if anyone else had
34:16
tried to take on that script, it might have become a little bit
34:19
more generic. It might have become a little
34:21
bit more like Flash Gordon. Because every film since then
34:23
that's tried to rip it off, and there's been thousands have
34:26
never really found this tone and real excitement.
34:29
And I think he brings that. So as the director on this, I
34:31
think he's the only person who could have done A New Hope
34:33
easily. Wow.
34:35
Praise from Westy forward Lucas. When it comes to this film,
34:39
yeah, I have to because it is his.
34:41
You know what? Let's give him some credit
34:43
because everything you see in Star Wars, everything you hear,
34:46
the way it looks, the way it sounds, the world building,
34:48
that's all his vision. And there must have been so much
34:52
pressure on him from people saying, oh, George, come on,
34:54
really? You want one of these robots to
34:56
not speak a single word of English?
34:58
But he's bull headed enough and determined enough to go, no,
35:01
that's where I want it. That's how it's going to work.
35:03
He's almost naive. I suppose he's got a sense of
35:05
innocence about him as a film maker to not be cynical about
35:08
this universe. And that's why he does work as a
35:10
fairy tale almost. And anyone with like a slightest
35:13
bit of cynicism but who might have been a better film maker,
35:16
they wouldn't have made a better film.
35:18
But when you hear about the issues during production of the
35:20
film that Lucas had to deal with, it's a surprise Star Wars
35:23
came out at all, let alone with such a big hit.
35:26
So some of those issues, the Tatooine scenes we mentioned
35:29
earlier, were filmed in Tunisia. On the first day of filming,
35:32
Tunisia experienced its first major rainstorm in 50 years,
35:35
delaying things. There were major issues with
35:38
some of the technology, mainly R2, but delayed things.
35:42
The latest scenes were filmed the L3 studios in England.
35:45
They had really strict working hours and wouldn't let Lucas
35:47
shoot past 5:00 PM. That delayed things.
35:50
The film had been under budgeted and the run out of money so
35:53
production was stopped for two weeks until Fox approved another
35:56
3,000,000 and the whole situation made Lucas I'll he was
36:00
diagnosed with hypertension and exhaustion and told to reduce
36:03
his stress levels. At this point they had about six
36:06
weeks left in production and Alan Ladd came to Lucas and said
36:09
he had to finish within one week.
36:11
Lucas said that's not possible and Ladd said well either you do
36:14
it or we shut down production. So the crew was split into 3
36:17
units and it was a massive race to bring it in on time, which
36:20
the someone managed to do. I mean, it's stressing me out
36:23
just seeing all that the. Pressure he was under.
36:26
So what do you think of that and how Lucas and his team, to be
36:28
fair, dealt with all those issues well?
36:31
You know to be. Fair.
36:32
We've got the film, haven't we? We have the film does work so.
36:35
Obviously they've got their heads down, and I do think the
36:38
film always has this kind of slightly scrappy quality to it.
36:41
It's not a really slick blockbuster like Raiders is, and
36:44
I think that's probably a knock on effect of that.
36:46
So maybe if it had a bit longer, we would be a little bit
36:49
slicker, but I'm not necessarily saying it would be better for
36:52
it. Maybe that's what gives it its
36:53
charm, yeah. Because you hear about these
36:55
films that have big production issues as this, there's Jaws and
36:58
both of them obviously two of the biggest hints of all time.
37:01
Do you think that maybe helps sometimes if there are issues
37:04
they have to work with and work within limitations.
37:07
I think so, because I think it sharpens everyone's focus,
37:09
doesn't it? Yeah, I mean.
37:11
Limitations always breed creativity, don't they?
37:13
So when you're given boundaries that you've got to stay inside
37:16
of, then your creativity has to save you.
37:18
And I think he's the man to do it.
37:20
If anyone's a creative soul, I think it's George Lucas.
37:22
You know, he's, like we said, he's an ideas man.
37:24
There was such a rush to finish it at the end, but if you watch
37:26
the film from start to finish, you can't tell what was rushed
37:29
to do in that last week or what was shot on the first day.
37:32
It is all consistently brilliant.
37:36
Yeah, I know that. Maybe because of the stress he
37:37
was under, or maybe because he calls himself an introvert, the
37:40
main cast in Star Wars don't exactly lavish Lucas with praise
37:43
when they talk about working with him.
37:45
No. Have you heard much about this?
37:47
I have, yeah. Mark Hamill just went on and
37:49
said if there was a way to make movies without actors, George
37:52
would do it. The general consensus for the
37:56
actors without the found Lucas to be very uncommunicative as a
37:59
director. He said his direction would
38:01
usually be one of two things, either faster or more intense,
38:05
and then. Because.
38:07
He was I'll He lost his voice for a couple of days on set, so
38:10
the crew gave him a board that said faster.
38:12
He turned it round and it said more intense.
38:17
There you go then. Just turn it with the board.
38:19
Are you laughing? Yeah, exactly.
38:20
That's it. In terms of the visual effects
38:23
for the film Lucas, he needed to do things that had never been
38:25
done before. He approached Doug Trumbull, who
38:28
worked on 2001 in Silent Running, but he was already
38:31
working on close Encounters of the Third Kind.
38:33
So Lucas just aside the set up his own company, as you do.
38:37
He brought in Trumbull's assistant, John Dykstra to head
38:40
up this new company, hired a load of students, artists and
38:43
engineers, put them in a warehouse in California and call
38:46
them Industrial Light and Magic. I mean, I don't know what's
38:49
going on here, to be honest. We need ground breaking visual
38:52
effects. No one can do them.
38:53
So I'll just set up ILM with a bunch of students.
38:55
It's absolutely crazy. What do you think Ireland's
39:00
visual effects work is like in Star Wars?
39:02
How does it hold up today? Do you think, Oh, it's still?
39:04
Incredible. It's set a standard and
39:06
personally speaking, I always love like practical effects
39:09
work, not just AGI. You know, there's something
39:11
about it, just the kind of tactility of it.
39:14
You you know, it's physically there and I think this is some
39:16
of the best and how they blend at all in the variety of work
39:20
they do from the crafts from the tie Fi just to the sand crawler
39:24
to the death saw itself. I'm just saying it's all
39:26
wonderful. Yeah.
39:27
I mean, I mentioned before that Star Wars under budgeted $8
39:30
million and it rose to 11,000,000.
39:32
To give a bit of context on that, the budget for Superman,
39:35
which came out one year after Star Wars, was $50 million.
39:39
So almost five times more than Star Wars today.
39:41
I think Star Wars looks head and shoulders above Superman.
39:45
Easily, easily the space battles.
39:47
Are great, but there's a shot in the other star and tied away and
39:49
that you sort of mentioned their mass where we see the Jawasan
39:52
crawler trundling through the desert.
39:53
It's done with the scale model. It's only a few seconds but that
39:56
shot just blows me away. It looks like a real
39:59
outstanders. Yeah, they blend.
40:01
It all really, really well. Sometimes you can see the model
40:04
work, but I just love the way they have the practicals like
40:06
Matt was saying, and like when everyone gets shot and the X
40:09
Wing battle at the end and it cuts just at that right point
40:12
where they're in the cockpit and you get that kind of, and then
40:14
it cuts to the model work. It's so compelling.
40:17
But like we said at the top, that opening scene still looks
40:20
real. It does.
40:21
The Star Destroyers look amazing.
40:23
Easily fullest. Workers Director on Star Wars.
40:26
Lucas was nominated for Best Director at the Oscars and the
40:28
film was nominated for Best Pitcher.
40:30
They lost out on both to the same film.
40:32
Do you know what that was? Annie Hall wasn't.
40:36
It but you always get these every time.
40:39
When I go on. Mastermind.
40:43
Yeah. Annie Hall, Woody Allen.
40:44
Best director When Star Wars was released, Lucas had the biggest
40:48
picture ever made on his hands. It was the highest grossing film
40:51
of all time and a cultural phenomenon.
40:53
After Star Wars, he oversaw the two Star Wars follow-ups, The
40:56
Empire Strikes Back in Returning the Jedi, and in 1981 produced
41:00
Radios of the Lost Ark after creating the character of
41:02
Indiana Jones. So this is my question.
41:06
Up to this point. Early 80s Lucas output as a
41:09
filmmaker was THX 1138, American Graffiti, the Star Wars trilogy,
41:13
and Raiders incredible filmography.
41:16
After this, aside from producing a couple of good indie films,
41:20
nothing fell off a Cliff quality wise.
41:23
So why do you think that was? Do you think Star Wars burned
41:26
him out or do you think he was never that good in the 1st place
41:28
and got lucky? Like I said, when?
41:30
You first asked us. He's a lucky man, and he's
41:33
surrounded by the right people. And he finished Star Wars.
41:36
And I think that process and what it did to him physically
41:39
and mentally and emotionally, I think he didn't want to go
41:41
through that again. So he got away with it and it
41:44
was a huge success. It was a phenomenon.
41:46
And he just sits back. I mean, if I made one film that
41:49
made $40 billion, yeah, I would do fuck all as well.
41:58
I think he's just sat back behind the scenes and he's just
42:01
really, really enjoyed his life. Good lad. *.
42:04
Wars was a massive game changer. Jaws was the first time a
42:07
blockbuster, but I think Star Wars really defined the
42:09
blockbuster and still defines what the blockbuster is in terms
42:12
of movie merchandising. Star Wars created that as an
42:15
industry in its own right, and it's a key part of any
42:17
blockbuster campaign. Now.
42:19
Any blockbuster film has toys, video games, books, clothes.
42:22
What I would like people to take from Lucas, especially young
42:25
film makers, is that he had this vision and did whatever it took.
42:29
To me, that happened. He took risks when he was young.
42:31
He set up companies. He went for it 100%, and Star
42:33
Wars would never have existed if he hadn't done that.
42:35
I think if Lucas can make Star Wars in 1977, just about
42:38
anything is possible. Yeah.
42:40
True, yeah. Very true.
42:42
So we've covered up quite a lot on George Lucas there.
42:44
Critically acclaimed bombs, critically acclaimed hits,
42:47
cultural icons and setting up Seminole companies left, right
42:50
and centre. Whether you're a fan of his or
42:51
you're not, I don't think anybody could deny the
42:54
significance of his career or that he has his place in
42:56
Hollywood history. Agreed.
42:58
Yeah, definitely the cast, the main cast.
43:07
Of Star Wars is quite an eclectic mix.
43:09
Oscar winners, horror icons, complete unknowns and future A
43:12
list movie stars. The cast list is pretty huge.
43:15
So we're going to focus on the main good guys.
43:18
Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford and Allen Guinness are coming up.
43:21
But I think a good place to start is with the main
43:23
character, don't you think? Well, yeah.
43:25
Absolutely so. Mark Hamill plays Luke
43:28
Skywalker, a Tatooine dwelling. Most of your farm boy when we
43:31
first meet him, who goes on quite the adventure after his
43:34
surrogate parents, Uncle Owen and aunt Beru are murdered by
43:37
the empire, he goes off with Obi Wan, rescues the Princess and
43:40
learns the ways of the force to blow up the death star.
43:44
What do we think of Luke Skywalker as a character?
43:46
First of all, he's very. Very archetypal, isn't he?
43:50
Young, innocent, naive kid is saying nothing of the world and,
43:55
and I actually think it's quite a brave thing to do to make him
43:59
the main character because on paper you would think he seems
44:01
really, really boring and quite bland.
44:04
And the temptation must have been to kind of give him a bit
44:08
of an edge, to kind of rough him up a bit, make him a bit scruffy
44:11
in one way or the other. But Lucas doesn't.
44:13
He knows that for Luke to complete his arc in this film,
44:17
he has to start off like that, which is why the end of the film
44:20
has the impact that he does. Actually, from what looks like
44:23
slightly shaky beginnings, I think as a character he ends up
44:26
bleeping off the page by the end.
44:28
Yeah, I was. Never a big fan of Luke when I
44:30
was younger, I think I thought he was a bit boring.
44:33
He's a right goody 2 shoes, isn't he?
44:36
Yeah. I don't think I would.
44:38
Like him in real life, to be honest.
44:41
In recent. Years though, I have warmed to
44:43
him a lot more as a character who grows not just in Star Wars
44:46
but in the three films. He's got a brilliant arc and I
44:48
think he's really well written for the most part.
44:51
I do like a Morden Empire where I think he's a bit more mature.
44:53
There's more conflict within him.
44:55
But nowadays I do like him in Star Wars as well.
44:57
Like you said there, Matt, he is your classic protagonist, isn't
45:00
he? I've.
45:02
Always loved good Skywalker. He's always had that real kind
45:04
of energy that I always recognized could be seen as
45:07
immaturity or naivety, I guess. But it's probably the same as,
45:11
like Matt said, it's probably the same attitude George has had
45:13
make in the film. He's going to be a pilot in the
45:15
Rebellion and he's going to blow up the Death Star, you know, and
45:17
even when they're just sitting there and we're going, yeah,
45:19
we're going to go and blow the Death Star up, you say, well, I
45:21
used the bullseye bomb rats back home.
45:22
They're not much bigger than two metres.
45:24
Couldn't get over it. Yeah, mate, but that's the Death
45:28
Star. But I think.
45:31
He's a really good character that I could relate to when I
45:34
was younger. Being stuck somewhere and you
45:36
wanted to just go and see other things.
45:38
It reminds me when I couldn't go and see Batman in 1989 so it was
45:40
12. All my friends.
45:44
Have seen it because we're a little bit older and I'm like,
45:46
I'm going to say this no matter what, what you're comparing.
45:48
That to. Look blowing up the desktop.
45:50
Yeah, that's. Exactly the same.
45:54
No, just that. Feeling of wanting.
45:56
To do things and feeling restricted by other people are
45:59
feeling restricted by rules or governed or it doesn't tap into
46:02
that youthful vitality that I think he brings to it.
46:04
I think that character is great because you'd want to follow
46:06
him. I think he's really good.
46:08
Well. Lucas said casting Star Wars was
46:10
a year long process with auditions every 5 minutes and he
46:14
held what he called a cattle call with his pal Brian De
46:16
Palmer. De Palmer was auditioning for
46:18
Carrie at the same time, so the joint forces and held joint
46:21
auditions and Lucas knew right from the star that he wanted an
46:24
unknown actor to play Luke and there were some names that were
46:27
unknown at the time but that we now know.
46:30
Have you heard any of those? I.
46:32
Haven't. I don't think so, William.
46:33
Cat, who department casting Carrie was a contender, and
46:37
Lucas also considers Charles Martin Smith right.
46:41
Charles Martin Smith. Why?
46:45
Where? Were.
46:47
The One American Graffiti and Martin Smith.
46:49
Most well known probably for playing Oscar Wallace and the
46:51
Untouchables. He would have been really short
46:54
for a Stormtrooper. Martin Smith.
46:58
Wouldn't be much taller than not to.
47:03
Also, Robert England auditioned for the part of Luke.
47:06
He became famous in the 80s for playing a very famous horror
47:08
movie character, Freddy. Freddy Krueger.
47:11
After his audition, England had a moan to his pals about how
47:14
badly done in the audition, but said to one of them it was also
47:17
an actor. Actually, I think you'd be a
47:19
really good fit for it that Powell was Mark Hamill.
47:22
Well, Hamill auditioned and Lucas said about his audition
47:25
because of the strange words they were reading, so many
47:27
actors read the part a little tongue in cheek with a nod and a
47:30
wink. I didn't want that.
47:32
Mark threw himself into the words and read the part
47:34
sincerely. So on the back of that, Lucas
47:37
cast him as Luke. So how do you?
47:39
Think Mark Hamill does as Luke Skywalker in the film I think
47:43
you. Said it there.
47:43
I think there's a sincerity to him.
47:45
He does seem very genuine and the emotion that he delivers I
47:50
think really, really works for the character and you take him
47:52
seriously. He could have been really
47:53
annoying in the wrong hands, he could have just been a right
47:56
pain in the arse. You need that level of belief,
48:00
but at the same time to deliver that emotion and that excitement
48:02
at the same time. I think he does really, really
48:04
well. When they even mention the
48:06
rebellion, it's like, you know, of the rebellion against the
48:08
Empire. And then the next scene he's
48:09
like looking at the two sunsets and he's almost crying.
48:12
And you just totally buy it. Yeah, I think it's really,
48:14
really good. It was.
48:16
Probably a very difficult role to read for other actors because
48:19
of the amount of jargon and the amount of sheer faith they've
48:22
just got to have and what they finished film is going to be.
48:24
But the great thing about Hamlet, he just leans into it.
48:27
He doesn't try to be modern about it.
48:30
He buys into the character and the story as much as Josh Lucas
48:33
does, and that's why he works. And like I said about the
48:36
character in general, at the end, you just saw compelled by
48:38
him. You saw caught up in him.
48:40
And that's got a lot to do with just Hamill really believing in
48:43
the character. Well, Hamill's also said that he
48:46
didn't have much faith that Star Wars would be a hit.
48:48
He tells a story about Christmas 1976.
48:51
He and Carrie Fisher spent a weekend together in New York.
48:53
They went to see a film and one of the trailers was for Star
48:56
Wars, so nobody knew what it was at the time.
48:59
And when the trailer finished, somebody shouted out.
49:01
Coming soon to CBS. Was it Brian De Palma?
49:08
Written on the driveway. William freaking Well, after
49:19
Star Wars, Hamill returned as Luke and The Empire Strikes Back
49:21
and Return of the Jedi, of course, and also in the new
49:24
Disney Star Wars trilogy. But mostly he found himself a
49:27
big typecast and never appeared in another movie's biggest Star
49:30
Wars again. The Big Red one, which was a Sam
49:32
Fuller World War Two movie from 1980, was his most acclaimed.
49:36
But mostly Hummel's carved out a career for himself as a
49:39
voiceover artist, where he's quite well known for playing the
49:41
Joker in the Batman anime series.
49:43
Yeah, yeah. Have you heard him as the?
49:44
Joker. Yeah, he's great.
49:45
Yeah. Yes, he's really great.
49:48
I know a lot. Of Batman fans, I think sees
49:49
their favorite Joker, and there's been quite a few great
49:51
ones. To end on Mark Hamill, I think a
49:54
quote from the man himself. It's fitting about Star Wars,
49:57
Mark Hamill says people think being remembered for one
50:00
character is a negative thing, but I don't.
50:03
I didn't expect to be remembered for anything.
50:05
I'm Luke Skywalker and I always will be.
50:08
Nice. Lovely.
50:09
Yeah, good guy, A valid. Criticism some people have of
50:14
Star Wars there doesn't have enough female or non white main
50:18
characters. The one major female character I
50:20
does have, though, She's a doozy.
50:24
Carrie Fisher. Please.
50:25
Princess Leia Organa, a major figure in the Rebel Alliance,
50:28
taken prisoner by the Empire on the opening scene, she's rescued
50:31
from the Death Star by Luke Haddon Chewie, all the while
50:33
dishing out verbal abuse to just about everyone she meets and
50:37
masterminds the X Wing assault on the Death Star.
50:40
So what do you think of Princess Leia as a character?
50:43
Well, let's. Give Josh Lucas some credit here
50:45
again, because it would have been just so easy to make a
50:48
damsel in distress and that was it.
50:50
But she's anything but isn't intimidated by anyone.
50:55
And even when she's rescued, even then she just takes shots
50:58
straight away. She looks like these two clowns
51:01
who've got them in and. It's like.
51:03
Right. You do follow me on what I'm
51:06
doing. You don't to shut up and.
51:08
And. I just love it for that, and for
51:11
me, she's the soul of the film. Yeah, well, nowadays she's my
51:14
favorite character. She has got some serious art she
51:16
was going on. She meets Veda, starts giving
51:19
him shit. She meets talking and starts
51:21
giving him shit. She meets hard and starts giving
51:23
him shit immediately. She's a great judge of.
51:27
Character. She gives shit to all the
51:28
dickheads. I said I think looks better in
51:30
Empire, but I think Leah's maybe better in Star Wars.
51:33
I think she's fantastic in this film.
51:35
She's just like. You guys have said she's totally
51:37
badass, just just doesn't take any shit whatsoever.
51:41
One of my favorite bits when she just takes the gun off them.
51:43
It's like somebody's got to save her skins, get the fuck out of
51:45
here. But it's just brilliant.
51:47
And the way that she reacts when the door opens and Luke comes in
51:49
and she's just lying there like it could be anyone coming in.
51:52
She's just been interrogated by a needle in the seen previous.
51:55
She doesn't give a fuck. She's like, yeah, come.
51:57
On in Kill Us. Then your buyer.
52:01
Is this figure the final scene when they're getting the medals
52:03
and the standing there, you just see out in the outfit, my hair
52:06
is done differently. And just standing there and just
52:07
getting the respect from everybody and just playing a
52:09
role, you totally buy that. Oh, yeah, you totally.
52:12
You think, oh, that's what she does.
52:13
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. But behind the scenes, you know
52:16
she can also kick your ass. Well, as was the.
52:20
Case with Luke, there was a huge casting process to find Princess
52:23
Leia. Thousands of actresses
52:24
auditioned, many of who will go on to be famous.
52:27
So there's a lot of names here, so hold on to your butts.
52:32
Karen Allen, Nancy Allen, Kim Basinger, Bonnie Bedelia, Glenn
52:36
Close, Geena Davis, Farrah Fawcett, Melanie Griffith,
52:39
Barbara Hershey, Angelica Houston, Margot Kidder, Jessica
52:43
Lang, Jane Seymour, Sybil Shepherd, Sissy Spacek, Meryl
52:46
Streep, Kathleen Turner, Sigourney Weaver, Diane Veeste,
52:49
Linda Blair and Deborah Winger all auditioned for the role of
52:53
Princess Leia. Wow, like any.
52:55
Of those names. Not as good as Carrie.
52:57
Fisher, I know. Well, there was.
52:59
Also, one of the very famous actress turned the role down.
53:02
Oh, really? OK.
53:04
So. Jodie Foster.
53:05
Oh, really? Oh wow.
53:07
OK, so she wanted. To do it.
53:08
But she was already working on two of the Disney films, so I
53:11
had to decline. Would you change that if you
53:13
could? I don't know.
53:14
She's. Incredible in Taxi Driver,
53:16
right? Yeah.
53:16
So she's got the chops to do it. Yeah.
53:19
I think she would have been pretty good.
53:20
Oh, she would have been. Fantastic.
53:21
I mean, she's a better actress, I think, than Carrie Fisher,
53:23
hasn't she? But yeah, Carrie Fisher's Leah.
53:25
I mean, how can you change that? Yeah.
53:27
No, no. Don't change it.
53:30
I can't. So then Carrie Fisher came in to
53:35
audition. She'd only appeared in one movie
53:37
at this point, that was Shampoo in 1975, but she was already
53:40
pretty well known still because of her parents were.
53:43
Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher.
53:45
Yeah, singing. Actor Eddie Fisher was a father
53:47
and her mother was the actress Debbie Reynolds, who'd been in a
53:49
Hollywood phenomenon of her own in Singing in the Rain in 1952.
53:53
So when she went to audition for Star Wars, Lucas said that you
53:56
like Carrie Fisher straight away because when she walked in, they
53:59
asked her, are you Debbie Reynolds daughter?
54:01
And she replied, no, Debbie Reynolds is my mother.
54:07
Awesome, that just sums her up, doesn't it, To keep the budget?
54:10
Down as well a story about Carrie Fisher that they had to
54:12
fly everyone Tunisia in coach, right.
54:15
So Debbie Reynolds rang up George Lucas personally and said
54:18
how dare my daughter fly coach. This is completely unacceptable.
54:21
And Carrie Fisher was in the room when he took the call.
54:23
She took the phone off George Lucas and she just went ma'am, I
54:25
want to fly coach now fuck off. So she was Leah, naturally, I
54:32
think. Yeah, definitely.
54:35
Luis loved her. Audition, especially one test
54:37
screening she did with Harrison Ford.
54:39
So she was cast as Princess Leia.
54:41
So what do we think of Carrie Fisher as Leia in Star Wars?
54:44
She is. Princess Leia, that's it.
54:46
She just completely owns the role.
54:48
I think she's so recognisable as a character.
54:51
I think all of our outfits are great, hairs great, Whole
54:55
performance is just totally believable.
54:57
It was when I very first saw it when I was young and I was just
54:59
thinking, what's these strange feelings that I've got?
55:05
This is. Brand new.
55:06
And that was Carrie Fisher. There's her legacy then.
55:12
Yeah. Thank you.
55:14
It's actually a Gigi Abraham was quote about Carrie Fisher where
55:16
he said Carrie Fisher isn't a badass because she played
55:19
Princess Leia. Princess Leia is a badass
55:22
because she was played by Carrie Fisher.
55:24
Absolutely. Right.
55:25
I think she's brilliant. Completely irreplaceable.
55:27
It's. Interesting that list of
55:28
actresses you went through there.
55:29
Because if I'm being like really honest, I would never say Carrie
55:32
Fisher was a great actress. And I think there was certainly
55:34
a lot of actresses on there who I would rate better as an
55:37
actress. But what Carrie Fisher was, was
55:40
an absolute star also. Coming.
55:43
From the family she did, she just had movie star Christmas
55:45
from the get go in a 21. To be going in there and holding
55:49
her own with people like Peter Cushion, who's got like 30-40
55:52
years of acting behind him, it just was what a absolute star
55:56
she was. And out of the three main
55:58
characters, I could kind of see maybe other actors in there.
56:01
Not with Leah. No chance.
56:04
Yeah. Well, she was a * and she was
56:05
apparently an absolute joy on the set as well.
56:07
Then everybody loved her. She does have a very famous
56:09
hairstyle in Star Wars as well. Obviously the bagel buns.
56:12
How does that look today, do you think?
56:14
Iconic. It is iconic, I mean, silly in
56:17
some ways, but you wouldn't have it any other way, would you?
56:19
Exactly. It's.
56:20
The same as all the costumes or like.
56:21
It shouldn't really work, but it really does.
56:24
Well, she didn't. Like it?
56:24
Carrie Fisher. And she used to tease Lucas on
56:26
the set by calling her hair the buns of Navarone, she said.
56:33
I'm not sure why, but George would hate it when I said that.
56:36
Of course, that just made me say it all the more.
56:39
And she also didn't like her costume very much because Lucas
56:42
wouldn't let her wear any underwear, which is a bit weird.
56:45
Yeah, she was quite famous going on record about this.
56:48
And she said, as we all know, there was no underwent space.
56:51
And she also said that when she brought this to Charles Lucas,
56:53
he explained it away in his typical way by saying, oh, well,
56:56
you know, in space you become weightless, but then your body
56:58
expands but your bra doesn't. So you will end up being
57:01
strangled by your own bra. I mean that is just crazy talk.
57:06
Yeah, I. Mean to think about in that
57:08
level of detail, but it's just typical fish it.
57:10
I love how her outlook on life just always turn any complaint
57:14
or negative into a positive. Because then when she wrote
57:16
about that in her memoir, she said I wanted to report it in my
57:19
obituary that I drowned in moonlight, strangled by my own
57:22
bra. Drowned in moonlight.
57:24
I fucking love that. Yeah.
57:27
That's it. It's a lovely face and then a
57:28
great punchline, I think. When?
57:30
She passed away. Some online publications did
57:32
actually have that as the headline of the article.
57:34
Yeah, they did. They did.
57:35
Yeah, I remember. I remember too, right?
57:37
Respect to wishes, absolutely. After Star Wars, Carrie Fisher
57:41
returned as Leah and the sequels like Mark Hamill.
57:43
And also like Hamill, she found herself a little bit typecast,
57:46
though not at the extent that he was.
57:48
She made a lot of TV movies and appeared in roles in The Blues
57:50
Brothers, The Burbs and When Harry Met Sally.
57:53
She was a talented writer. Like we said, I'm one of BAFTA
57:55
for adopting her own novel, Postcard from the Edge, in 1991
58:00
and also did a lot of script consulting as well.
58:02
Entertainment Weekly called her the most sought after script
58:04
doctor in town. Tragically, though, Carrie
58:08
Fisher passed away in 2016 at just 60 years old.
58:11
Do you remember hearing that news?
58:13
Yeah. Really do.
58:15
Just after Christmas. It was horrible.
58:17
There was a lot behind the scenes that she was plagued with
58:19
and you kind of be that emotional without feeling
58:22
something. And I think that really hurt her
58:24
and it was detrimental to her. And I think, you know, she was
58:26
dealt some shit cards in her life.
58:27
But whenever she was at Comic Con and conventions and if
58:30
anyone had done any original art, she would go around all of
58:32
the stalls and buy original art from anybody doing anything.
58:35
She was an absolute sweetheart, but she was troubled and
58:39
unfortunately that's what it brings when she.
58:41
Passed away. There was obviously an
58:43
outpouring of grief across the globe, including from her Star
58:45
Wars friends. I've got some quotes.
58:49
Have you got the Kleenex ready here?
58:50
Oh boy. Do it again.
58:53
So Harrison Ford said Carrie was one-of-a-kind, brilliant,
58:56
original, funny and emotionally fearless.
58:59
She lived her life bravely and I will miss her dearly.
59:03
Mark Hamill said Carrie was a ferociously funny, take charge
59:07
woman who took my breath away. My life would have been farmed
59:10
yet without her. I am grateful for the laughter,
59:13
the wisdom, the kindness and even the bratty, self indulgent
59:16
crap my beloved space twin gave me through the years.
59:19
Thanks Carrie, I love you. MH and George Lucas said The
59:25
whole family will miss her and nobody more than me.
59:28
From the moment I met her, Carrie was and always will be my
59:31
Princess. Lovely sentiments to end with
59:37
the. Great lady herself Carrie Fisher
59:39
said about Star Wars. People still ask me if I knew
59:42
Star Wars was going to be that big of a hit.
59:44
Yes, we all knew. The only one who didn't know it
59:47
was George. Still.
59:51
Giving him shit, Yeah, yeah. Leah follows.
59:53
Me round like a vague smell. People see me and they squeal
59:56
like seals stranded on the beach.
59:59
Amazing. The third of the.
1:00:03
Three main heroes in the movie is Han Solo, played by Harrison
1:00:06
Ford, a space pirate and best friend of walking carpet
1:00:09
Chewbacca. He gets mixed up and looks story
1:00:11
when he agrees to take him to Alderaan in the Millennium
1:00:13
Falcon and goes from the scoundrel smuggler the hero when
1:00:17
he turns up at the last minute to help look destroy the Death
1:00:19
Star. For me, as soon as he enters the
1:00:22
film, this is where everything clicks into place because before
1:00:26
now it's kind of jumped around from character to character.
1:00:29
And as I said earlier, there's a lot of jog and there's a lot of
1:00:31
kind of mythical stuff being discussed and taken the
1:00:34
nostalgia away from it because obviously I know how it plays
1:00:36
out. Han is the first character who I
1:00:39
instantly understand. And I get where he's coming
1:00:41
from. Right.
1:00:42
OK. He's like every character I've
1:00:44
seen in the Western. He's like Jason Robards and Once
1:00:47
Upon Time in the West. He's someone who will pretty
1:00:49
much do anything as long as he's paid and he's with the good
1:00:52
guys. But don't know how much I'm
1:00:53
going to trust him. And he just levels everything
1:00:56
for me. He's the character I just hook
1:00:58
onto. And I think, right, OK, I'm
1:01:00
going to enjoy the rest of this film now because he's in it.
1:01:02
Yeah, he's just so. Charismatic, he looks great in
1:01:05
that space. Waist core as well I love it
1:01:07
space code in terms of the dynamic between the three main
1:01:11
characters which is brilliant he's totally integral he's the
1:01:14
only character maybe that's a big grey everybody else is
1:01:17
either a fascist or a goody 2 shoes and he's sort of somewhere
1:01:20
in the middle he's my. Favorite character in the film?
1:01:22
Great. It's just effortlessly cool.
1:01:26
I remember the first time I saw it and I thought that this is
1:01:28
the guy here. He is amazing, but watching it
1:01:32
so many times since, it's dawned on us that he is the audience,
1:01:36
he is us. It's us in that world, and we're
1:01:39
just going the force. Fuck you talk.
1:01:41
Yeah. Give us somebody.
1:01:43
I'll take you where you want it all around.
1:01:45
Yeah, no problem. Yeah.
1:01:47
Used to be favorite character by a long stretch.
1:01:49
He's fucking brilliant. Yeah, well.
1:01:51
Lucas said he based the personality of Han on Francis
1:01:53
Ford Kobler. Not really.
1:01:58
Just panicking in the. Philippine Jungle.
1:02:03
Having a heart. Attack.
1:02:06
And his first plans for Han Solo was that he was going to be
1:02:08
played by a black actor. So yeah, Billy Dee Williams
1:02:11
auditioned, and Lucas settled on Glyn Turman, who was most well
1:02:14
known for Cooley High. But Lucas then changed his mind
1:02:17
and went after a white actor. No way.
1:02:19
You get away with that now. No way.
1:02:21
No. No way that would have
1:02:23
cancelled. Lucas there for sure, yeah.
1:02:26
Lucky. Man.
1:02:29
Again, so in these new auditions that were again Lords of names
1:02:34
for the part of harm, have you heard any of those?
1:02:37
A few. Yeah, I think, Christopher.
1:02:39
Walken for me is the standout. That would be, I'd love to say.
1:02:41
Walking in Christopher Walken was.
1:02:42
One and Nick Nolte, Sylvester Stallone, John Travolta, James
1:02:47
Woods, Ball considered Kurt Russell.
1:02:49
Yeah, that's. Good, I'd love to think.
1:02:51
I Russell, Yeah, he would have been.
1:02:52
Good Wester. You like this one Chevy Chase?
1:02:56
Of course. I mean, what?
1:02:59
Imagine. Ridiculous.
1:03:01
No, Absolutely. Ludicrous.
1:03:03
Well. James Carr and Jack Nicholson,
1:03:04
Robert De Niro, Al Pacino and Burt Reynolds all turned the
1:03:07
role down. Do you like any of those names
1:03:10
as her? De Niro calling everyone
1:03:12
motherfuckers. Pacino.
1:03:15
Like she made the council run in less than 12 parsecs.
1:03:21
Well, Pacino said. It was mine for the taking, but
1:03:23
I didn't understand the script. Yeah, it's fine.
1:03:28
How was it forded away with Lucas before, on American
1:03:30
Graffiti and the year after that he'd been in Cope as the
1:03:33
conversation. But the roles then dried up and
1:03:35
Ford, with a young family, went into an honest job.
1:03:38
We mentioned it earlier, Carpenter.
1:03:40
He became. A Carpenter.
1:03:42
But because of their previous ties, Lucas asked them to help
1:03:44
out in the screen test for Luke and Lear and read the part of
1:03:46
Han Solo. And during those tests, Lucas
1:03:49
realized that Ford was perfect for Han.
1:03:52
I mean, if you've seen any of those screen tests, he's already
1:03:54
Han Solo. Oh yeah.
1:03:56
Effortlessly. So what do you think?
1:03:58
Then of Harrison Ford as Han Solo in Star Wars for me.
1:04:02
He's just so charismatic. He's just electric.
1:04:06
His outfits are amazing. I'm still hoping for the day
1:04:08
where I can actually wear them boots.
1:04:14
The. Leather.
1:04:14
Jacket he wears at the end the. Jacket he's got.
1:04:16
On their red stripes down the side.
1:04:18
Yeah, yeah, I think he totally, totally owns it.
1:04:22
Like I said before, I think he is that character.
1:04:24
He's like 3334 at the time of this.
1:04:26
So at that point he said, well, I need to get a proper job.
1:04:29
This isn't quite working out. And you can see that.
1:04:31
You can see he's a bit more world weary than everybody else.
1:04:34
He's a bit sick of everybody's shit.
1:04:35
He's a bit sick of the whole carry on and the whole mythology
1:04:39
of it. He just doesn't buy into it.
1:04:40
But I think he brings a lot of his own personality to it.
1:04:42
And he's really funny. He's really dry, that bit when
1:04:45
he runs after the Stormtroopers, turns around the corner and
1:04:47
there's. Fucking loads and he's like.
1:04:50
That runs back after Chewie. I would watch that on the loop
1:04:52
for about four days I the bit. Where the first arrived with the
1:04:55
Death Star. They're in the control room and
1:04:57
Obi Wan goes off to shut down the tractor beam as soon as he's
1:05:00
out of the room, Chewie's like and Han goes.
1:05:04
You said it, Chewie. Where did you dig up that old
1:05:07
fossil? It's.
1:05:09
Like. So brutal.
1:05:10
Harsh as from yeah. Do you know?
1:05:12
What? Chewie said there?
1:05:13
No what? The old man.
1:05:15
'S lost his mind. Can you speak rookie?
1:05:19
Yeah, just like you can. Speak Klingon.
1:05:26
I mean, he's just got everything that the character needs,
1:05:28
doesn't. He's got the charisma, he's got
1:05:30
the confidence as they strut into the cantina and just sits
1:05:34
down. Just say right, he's all going
1:05:36
to listen to me and I'm not going to put up with anyone shit
1:05:39
here. I don't have the time to do
1:05:40
that. I love how that cynicism just
1:05:42
contrasts with how like straightforward Hamlin, Guinness
1:05:45
are playing it. He just brings that spark.
1:05:48
The only of the person I want CCP tend to see in that role is
1:05:52
Kurt Russell, because I think he's very similar presence.
1:05:55
I don't think we. Can mention how without talking
1:05:56
about his sidekick and copilot, the 745 Wookie Chewbacca, played
1:06:01
by Peter May here again. Wonderful.
1:06:03
And I think like the Droid, he's the perfect win of the story
1:06:05
when you're a kid. I mean, certainly when I was a
1:06:07
kid, you know, I wasn't that bothered about the human
1:06:09
characters. I wanted to see robots and I
1:06:11
want to see aliens. And, you know, the more bizarre
1:06:14
the better. So like when another human comes
1:06:16
on, but his best mate looks like some kind of weird cross between
1:06:19
an earp and a bear. But he can handle himself.
1:06:21
And he's a copilot. I'm all over that shit.
1:06:24
Yeah. Yeah.
1:06:24
Chewy. He's obviously incredible.
1:06:26
Everybody loves Chewy. I mean how does?
1:06:28
This character work a 7 foot five walking furball who only
1:06:31
communicates like. It should be.
1:06:34
Completely laughable, Like genuinely laugh out loud bad,
1:06:38
but it works. You buy him as a character.
1:06:40
I mean, how? Yeah.
1:06:42
I'm like. Actually asking I need to know.
1:06:43
I don't get it. I don't know how it works.
1:06:46
Again, credit Lucas for that, for believing in it.
1:06:49
I love. Chewy The thing that I get from
1:06:51
it is that he modelled him on his dog.
1:06:54
Who he named. Indiana Jones after and I'm
1:06:56
thinking, what the fuck did his dog look like?
1:07:01
It's on its hind legs with a little bag on.
1:07:07
Absolutely mental. But yeah, I love him.
1:07:10
And there's another bit in the cantina where Obi Wan turns
1:07:12
around and he's like Chewbacca hears first mate on a ship.
1:07:15
That might help with how the fuck does he know that?
1:07:19
He's speaking Wookie. All the way through, I think
1:07:21
he's like sitting there just going there.
1:07:22
And we made Han solos over there if you want to go over but.
1:07:25
Han. Solo.
1:07:25
Doesn't know he can speak. English.
1:07:30
So he just. Doesn't do anything.
1:07:32
But I love. The character, I love the fact
1:07:34
that he can do anything, get the ship started, bring it over
1:07:36
here. He follows on with what Han's
1:07:38
saying and he backs him up at every single point.
1:07:41
But he has got his own mind. And if I was going to have like
1:07:44
a compadre to go through space with and I was a smuggler and I
1:07:47
might be in a little bit of trouble, it would definitely be
1:07:49
Chewbacca. Absolutely.
1:07:51
I think their relationship is so perfectly formed that even
1:07:54
though you don't see the scene, I can picture the scene in me
1:07:56
head of Chewie getting on the hand at the end to make him come
1:07:59
back. Yeah.
1:08:00
Yeah, it's all down. To Chewie just giving him shit
1:08:02
or just sitting there in silence.
1:08:04
But these arms? Folded, just refusing to get my
1:08:06
Falcon. When the studio executives first
1:08:10
saw the dailies as well, I know that they were concerned that
1:08:12
Chewie had no clothes on, and they said to Lucas, we're not
1:08:16
sure about walking around naked all the time.
1:08:18
Is there any chance he can wear Bermuda shorts?
1:08:22
But Lucas put them off by saying no, no, it's all right, Chewy,
1:08:25
just have a penis and they were like, all right, okay, that's
1:08:29
fine. No short required then.
1:08:31
Yeah, that's fine. Like Donald Duck.
1:08:35
Well that's the Star Wars. To say the typecasting wasn't an
1:08:37
issue for Harrison Ford will be an understatement.
1:08:40
The film launched him to becoming one of the biggest
1:08:42
movie stars of the last 50 years.
1:08:44
He returned as Hard in Empire and Returning the Jedi and
1:08:46
whilst playing Hard he was also cast as Indiana Jones, his
1:08:50
second all time iconic character.
1:08:52
Other big films followed, to name some Blade Runner, Witness
1:08:54
where he was nominated for an Oscar, Working Girl, Patriot
1:08:57
Games, Presumed Innocent, The Fugitive, Air Force One, all big
1:09:00
films with Ford in the lead. Do you like any of those ones?
1:09:04
I love Witness. I think that's a really great
1:09:06
film. A big fan of Peter Weir and I
1:09:09
think that's one of his best and I think it's definitely one of
1:09:11
Fords. Well, this Star Wars being just
1:09:13
a starting point for his career, really.
1:09:14
Harrison Ford view Star Wars a little differently to the other
1:09:17
cast members, he says about it. My life was changed completely
1:09:21
by the opportunities that came to me because of Star Wars, and
1:09:24
I am forever grateful because of that.
1:09:26
Oh. Nice.
1:09:30
The final. Main cast member we're going to
1:09:32
talk about wasn't an unknown actor, far from it.
1:09:35
So Alec Guinness, please. Obi Wan Kenobi, a wise old Jedi
1:09:38
who whisks look off on his adventure, teaches him the ways
1:09:40
of the force and then dies on the Death Star, the hands of
1:09:43
Darth Vader. So what do you think of the old
1:09:46
fossil Westie Obi Wan Kenobi? I love him.
1:09:49
Is it your grand or any? He's just like, really like,
1:09:51
he's not like. My grand.
1:09:56
I didn't mean you. Personally.
1:10:00
But he's got. That kind of real air of
1:10:02
trustworthiness. You trust him, you trust the
1:10:04
character, you believe what he says.
1:10:06
You don't think he's manipulating anybody.
1:10:08
You think he's honest. He's down the line.
1:10:10
He's got a history. You buy into it and he brings a
1:10:13
real classic vibe to him. After the the sand crawler, when
1:10:17
it's been attacked and Luke runs away and he's going to go back
1:10:20
because he thinks they've led him back home and he's like, no,
1:10:22
Luke, it's too dangerous. Like you totally buy that.
1:10:25
He's a classic mentor character isn't he?
1:10:27
Obi Wan. Stone cold classic.
1:10:29
I think Lucas pretty much plucked Gandalf, Our Lord of the
1:10:31
Rings and dropped him in here. I wouldn't call him a favorite
1:10:34
to watch on screen, but in terms of the film he's totally
1:10:37
essential. It's Luke's story and without
1:10:38
Obi Wan and Luke has no story. He starts to look story,
1:10:41
basically takes him from time to we and then teaches him the
1:10:44
force and the way he dies at the end of the second act.
1:10:47
Classic mentor moment as well. I think he's a great character.
1:10:50
Fantastic. I love his voice.
1:10:52
Over from that as well from then on yeah, so looks.
1:10:55
Like hearing these voices, do you think it's a bit weird that
1:10:58
Look just accepted this lobby one speaking beyond the grave
1:11:01
of. Course it is.
1:11:04
It's also. Weird, they've just been hit.
1:11:05
By a lightsaber and disappears. Yeah, he's like Lucas Knees, a
1:11:12
very archetypal character, which Lucas loves.
1:11:15
And again, like, he just makes them work on the page, makes
1:11:18
them work on screen, and he really grounds the film.
1:11:21
He gives it gravitas, he sells the concept of the force.
1:11:25
He's a bit of a wildly old fox as well.
1:11:27
I love how he sorts shit out of the cantina since it kicks off
1:11:31
straight in there. So he's got a bit more than the
1:11:33
meets the eye. Is he a favorite character?
1:11:35
Not really. I don't think he would have had
1:11:37
much of an arc beyond this film. But I think for what he needs to
1:11:41
do, for what he needs to carry, for what he needs to express as
1:11:44
a character, he fulfills her really well to the point where
1:11:47
he's so iconic. And you mentioned Gandalf there,
1:11:50
John Wolf. He was well before Obi Wan.
1:11:52
But when those films came out, I imagine a lot of people watching
1:11:55
that would go OK, right, Gandalf.
1:11:56
He's the Obi Wan of this story because that's how iconic is
1:11:59
become. But Lucas knew.
1:12:01
That Obi Wan had to bring a certain amount of gravitas, like
1:12:03
we mentioned there, to the film, so we always wanted a known
1:12:06
actor to play him again. Inspired by Kurosawa, he thought
1:12:09
about casting Tashiro Mufuni, who appeared in 16 Kurosawa
1:12:12
movies. Oh wow.
1:12:14
According to. Mufuni's daughter Mufuni turned
1:12:16
the part down because in her words, he was concerned about
1:12:19
how the film would look and that it would cheapen the image of
1:12:21
the samurai. At the time, sci-fi movies still
1:12:24
look quite cheap as the effects were not advanced and he had a
1:12:27
lot of samurai pride. So Lucas turned to England and
1:12:31
the acclaimed Oleg Guinness to play will be one.
1:12:33
Before Star Wars, Guinness was an Oscar winner for The Bridge
1:12:35
on the River Cry from 1957. It'd be nominated for four more
1:12:39
and appeared in classics like The Man in the White Suit, The
1:12:41
Lady Killers, Lawrence of Arabia and Doctor Zhivago.
1:12:45
Yeah, I think. It's been quite well documented
1:12:47
that he took the role based on two distinct factors.
1:12:50
He was a big fan of American Graffiti, like you guys, but he
1:12:54
read the script even though he didn't like the dialogue, but he
1:12:56
felt compelled to finish it. So the story was taking him all
1:12:59
the way to the final page. And I think that's what
1:13:01
convinced him. He's like, well, you know, I'm a
1:13:03
little bit past it now. This is what the kids are doing.
1:13:06
Then I'll play that role. I'll speak that dialogue.
1:13:08
I'll do the best job that I possibly can.
1:13:10
I don't have to understand it, but I feel compelled by it.
1:13:12
I know that he had. One condition when he took the
1:13:14
role though, he said that he wouldn't do any publicity to
1:13:17
promote the film, and the studio agreed on the provider that they
1:13:20
reduce his salary slightly and give him 2% of the film's
1:13:23
profits instead. He didn't want to do that, but
1:13:25
reluctantly agreed, and then Lucas gave him a further no .25%
1:13:29
by way of saying thanks for improving the dialogue through
1:13:32
the shoot. Right, OK.
1:13:33
That two point. Two, 5% ended up being worth $18
1:13:36
million. Wow.
1:13:39
So Guinness was in. So how do you think he does as
1:13:42
Obi Wan Kenobi? Matt Very.
1:13:44
Iconic. Can't really imagine anyone
1:13:48
bring in as much depth that Guinness does.
1:13:50
I mean, Guinness is just a wonderful, wonderful actor
1:13:52
anyway, and you could probably give him any old garbage to say
1:13:55
and he would sell it. Which is what?
1:13:57
They've done here. Which is what?
1:13:58
They've done here. He sells.
1:14:00
It so eloquently and just think of like where he's come from,
1:14:04
how like classically trained he is.
1:14:06
And now he's got scenes with, you know, a guy sitting inside a
1:14:09
little robot suit and he sells that dialogue.
1:14:12
He's working with first time actors pretty much, and he deals
1:14:17
with them beautifully and with relatively limited screen time.
1:14:21
He just makes all we want. Such an indelible and iconic
1:14:24
figure. Yeah, he.
1:14:25
Does bring that gravitas to the character I need, I think,
1:14:27
doesn't he? I think he's great.
1:14:29
I mean, a fantastic actor, obviously, as Matt said, I don't
1:14:32
think Obi Wan was a challenge to him in any way, to be honest.
1:14:35
No, I think he was on easy street.
1:14:36
He seems totally comfortable though, in what compared to his
1:14:38
of that big roles is completely ridiculous.
1:14:41
He doesn't seem out of place. Yeah.
1:14:42
So yeah, he's excellent for me. Yeah, I think.
1:14:45
That's why he didn't like it as much, because I don't feel he
1:14:47
felt that there was a lot that he put into it because he didn't
1:14:50
have to. He's got to trust his natural
1:14:52
ability, and that's what happens here.
1:14:54
You know, the bit when he does the mind trick on the
1:14:56
stormtrooper in Moss Isley, when he's just, these aren't the
1:14:58
droids you're looking for, just them little hand movements.
1:15:00
It's all very underplayed. Could have been really
1:15:03
ridiculous, that scene. He could have just been like,
1:15:05
right, this is the Force. It's like, boom.
1:15:07
But he just plays it down. He plays everything down.
1:15:10
And I think his performance is really, really, it's really
1:15:13
measured, but it's really subtle.
1:15:15
Yeah, apparently. He was the consummate
1:15:16
professional on set as well. George Lucas always praised him
1:15:19
for his work ethic and said that he inspired the younger cast and
1:15:22
crew to work harder. And Harrison Ford, who was still
1:15:25
learning at the time, I've got a quote from him where he said it
1:15:27
was fascinating for me to watch Alec Guinness.
1:15:29
He was always prepared, always professional, always very kind
1:15:32
to the other actors. He had a very clear head about
1:15:35
how to save the story. That influenced me a lot.
1:15:38
Yeah, massive. So he was.
1:15:39
An absolute professional on set, but it is probably as well known
1:15:43
as his performance is the fact that he pretty much hated the
1:15:45
whole experience. And while he kind of kept that
1:15:48
off the set and he didn't kind of blabber to other actors or
1:15:50
have a winch at them. He had a friend back home who
1:15:53
was writing letters to a lady called Ann Kaufman where he was
1:15:56
just basically going on and on about how much he wasn't
1:15:59
enjoying the shoot. So I've got a couple of quotes
1:16:01
from these letters here for you. So the first one, just before
1:16:04
production starts, My Dear Anne. New rubbish dialogue reaches me
1:16:08
every day and none of it makes my character clear or even
1:16:11
bearable. I just think of the lovely bread
1:16:14
and that keeps me going. I'm just off to the studio now
1:16:17
to work with the dwarf who wants to watch In the B-day and your
1:16:22
countryman Mark Hamill in Tennyson Ford.
1:16:25
What? Yeah.
1:16:28
Tennyson Ford, a rangy language young man who was probably
1:16:32
intelligent and amusing. God, they make me feel 90.
1:16:37
Yeah, he hated all of it afterwards, didn't he?
1:16:39
It's like a really good story that I read that a fan comes up
1:16:42
room and exclaims, I've seen Star Wars over 100 times, can I
1:16:46
have your autograph? Anyway, I'll give you the
1:16:48
autograph if you're never watching it.
1:16:54
Brutal. Yeah.
1:16:55
I mean, he did. He hated Star Wars.
1:16:56
Alec Guinness. Why do you think that was?
1:16:59
You know, you're talking about a guy who's made several films
1:17:02
with David Lean, and he's worked for the likes of Peter O'Toole
1:17:06
and Peter Sellers and Omar Sharif, and then imagined to
1:17:10
have that experience. But then to say you've become so
1:17:13
massive and so many people adore it.
1:17:15
And especially when he's got so many like iconic rules before
1:17:17
this that a lot of people probably had never seen or heard
1:17:20
of, and he's probably a bit resentful about that.
1:17:23
Well, after star. Wars, Guinness, Return for the
1:17:25
Empire, Strike Spark and Return of the Jedi.
1:17:27
Just for the. Lovely Bread no doubt and
1:17:31
Passage to India from 1984 was the last major film of naughty
1:17:34
was in so then with another quote from Alec Guinness on the
1:17:37
film. This one's also quite a big
1:17:39
rumby. He said Star Wars is staggering
1:17:42
his spectacle and technically brilliant, exciting and warm
1:17:45
hearted. The battle scenes at the end go
1:17:47
on for 5 minutes too long and some of the dialogue is
1:17:50
excruciating and it is far too noisy, but it remains a vivid
1:17:55
experience. Well, I think.
1:17:57
He liked it, maybe. So big exploration of the major
1:18:01
cast members of Star Wars, their career defining roles for Mark
1:18:04
Hamill and Carrie Fisher, one of two defining roles for Harrison
1:18:07
Ford. And whether he likes it or not,
1:18:10
it's probably the Royal Guinness is the most known for nowadays
1:18:12
as well. Yeah.
1:18:14
I don't know. Why I'm seeing whether he likes
1:18:15
it or not, he definitely doesn't like that.
1:18:23
The middle. The second act of Star Wars is
1:18:28
where things start to really move, and we've got a couple of
1:18:31
great scenes to talk about here. The rescue of Princess Leia and
1:18:34
the detention level shootout in the Death Star is coming up.
1:18:37
But first we're staying on Tatooine and heading to a
1:18:39
wretched hive of scum and villainy.
1:18:41
We must be cautious. So.
1:18:44
After Luke finds the charred remains of Uncle Owen and Anne
1:18:47
Berea with the hands of Imperial Stormtroopers, he decides to go
1:18:50
with Obi Wan on his mission to Alderaan, and they head to Moss
1:18:52
Idly Spaceport to find a ship. In the moments of Following the
1:18:56
Cantina, we discover that jazz music exists no matter which
1:18:59
Galaxy you're in, meet the two final main characters and are
1:19:02
introduced to the most famous space you've inspired by a
1:19:04
hamburger in Hollywood. Moss, Isley.
1:19:07
Cantina, will you go there for a drink, Westie?
1:19:12
Absolutely of. Course you would.
1:19:15
I think I have. It's just.
1:19:18
A big market, isn't it? Fantastic scene.
1:19:22
It's lifted straight out of a western.
1:19:24
It's an old school saloon. You've got all the bits that you
1:19:27
would expect, sliding drinks across the bar, all these really
1:19:29
weird characters that are really excellent.
1:19:32
But I think Lucas had was struggling a little bit to fill
1:19:34
everything up. So you just said to Rick Big, I
1:19:35
just take the masks off the shelf.
1:19:37
So it's just stuff he had lying about and he was just creating
1:19:40
all of these characters. I love the vibe of it.
1:19:42
I love the feeling of it, the songs.
1:19:44
It is catchy. That tune is pretty catchy.
1:19:47
Again, it's just one of them things that I said before under
1:19:49
that really refreshing surprise when you want it to go somewhere
1:19:52
else, it goes somewhere else and you're like, OK, so I'm in
1:19:54
Weston now. But the thing that strikes me
1:19:56
about this sequence is that we're an hour in here.
1:19:59
Yeah. Like, we're halfway through the
1:20:00
film, and it never feels like we're halfway through.
1:20:02
This always feels like one of the opening sequences.
1:20:04
It does because. There's so much.
1:20:05
Crammed into the last hour and so much that we've been drawn
1:20:09
into in the first hour, it still baffles me that this is halfway
1:20:12
through, well, the 1st. Bit that always gets me and it
1:20:14
makes me laugh is when they come in with the droids and the bomb
1:20:17
says no, don't serve their kind in here.
1:20:19
The servant, every other fucker in there is causing that role.
1:20:24
You know what's he got against droids?
1:20:28
Do. Not get that, but no, I love the
1:20:30
same as I said when I was talking about Han, this is where
1:20:33
the film really sought to build momentum for me.
1:20:35
This is where everything comes together.
1:20:36
You know what the mission is, you know what the characters are
1:20:38
doing now, but the actual pace itself, I love how dingy it is.
1:20:42
I love how it's not over lit. I just want to see more of the
1:20:45
aliens, which is a real positive.
1:20:46
I just want to hang out to this place, even if it's five on my
1:20:49
knits because it just looks great.
1:20:51
You just want to like take it all in and you can almost feel
1:20:54
the dirt on your fingernails in this place.
1:20:56
It's just got real like character to it.
1:20:58
I think it's a great setting and all works really really well.
1:21:02
Yeah, I love those shots. When we first get to the
1:21:03
cantina, the band's playing and it cuts from one weird looking
1:21:06
alien to another quickly, just to establish how mental the
1:21:09
place is. And I especially like the bit of
1:21:11
the bar where Luke gets into the fight, but exchange where the
1:21:14
guy's like, he doesn't like you, I don't like you either.
1:21:19
Luke's already. Out of his depth and he's only
1:21:22
like 3 miles down the road from where he lives.
1:21:26
So one of the most talked about and debated scenes in Star Wars
1:21:31
history basically is greed or shooting first.
1:21:34
What do you guys think about this?
1:21:36
Because when I first saw it, obviously it wasn't the special
1:21:38
editions and it wasn't the special edition that came out
1:21:40
again in 2004. So there's a couple of different
1:21:43
versions. The first one is just yes, I bet
1:21:45
you have boom, he's out there. That's cool as fuck.
1:21:48
It is. The second one is like Han
1:21:51
digitally moves his head. Yeah, this is like take your.
1:21:54
Shot 1st and then the last one they did because it was such
1:21:57
uproar about it. They both shoot at the same
1:21:58
time, so it's like, well, no, just leave it.
1:22:02
Why did Lucas have to fuck around with stuff that's
1:22:04
absolutely perfect? It's like he tries to just
1:22:06
lighten everything. That's got a bit of an ominous
1:22:09
dark tone. You like that about Han Solo?
1:22:11
He doesn't take any shit. He's not just going to sit there
1:22:13
and just listen to this guy who's after him.
1:22:15
You know for a fact he's a bad guy.
1:22:16
You want to see him shoot 1st every single time.
1:22:19
So for me, it's one of them sequences that it just needed to
1:22:23
be as it was, and Lucas needed to believe in that a little bit
1:22:26
more. The whole Moss Isley sequence on
1:22:28
the special editions is atrocious with all these big
1:22:30
fucking things walking about and you don't need it.
1:22:33
You just don't need it well. Lucas said about that hand
1:22:36
shooting first scene. It upset people because they
1:22:39
wanted Solo to be a cold blooded killer, but he isn't.
1:22:42
It had originally been done in close-ups and it was confusing
1:22:44
about who did what. I put a wider shot in there that
1:22:47
made it clear that Greedo was always the one who shot first.
1:22:51
Do you believe him? No, no.
1:22:54
Not at all. He's clutching its straws.
1:22:56
You're full of shit, George. You wanted to do something that
1:22:59
was badass. If Greedo shoots first, then
1:23:02
he's got a blaster that's a different colour.
1:23:04
And then he'd probably sell the fucking toy of it.
1:23:09
Yeah, but I mean if. Han doesn't shoot first then
1:23:11
that makes these arc in the film smaller as well, doesn't it?
1:23:13
Because at the start he's a murderer, but then by the end
1:23:15
he's a good guy. So it makes it arc even better
1:23:18
You've. Just seen Obi Wan, who's
1:23:19
probably the nicest guy in the whole films, cut someone's arm
1:23:21
off. Leave it alone and he shoots.
1:23:27
Lots of stormtroopers first. So what's the difference between
1:23:30
the Stormtroop and Greedo? Yeah, exactly.
1:23:35
So from there. The crew all head out on the
1:23:36
Falcon and after finding all the run destroyed, being caught in
1:23:40
the Death Star tractor beam, and discovering Princess Leia is on
1:23:42
the station, they set out on a rescue mission.
1:23:46
So what do you think of that? Rescue the huge shootout in the
1:23:48
detention area. So the bet.
1:23:50
I really, really love after that kind of first flowy of shots is
1:23:54
when they've obviously realized that the alarm's gone off.
1:23:56
So you've got that scene of hand just terribly, terribly trying
1:24:00
to bluff this way out of trouble over the intercom.
1:24:03
So we're fine. We're all fine here now.
1:24:06
Thank you. How are you?
1:24:09
Really polite. I mean it's.
1:24:10
Hilarious. It's really awkward.
1:24:12
It's like me trying to start a conversation on Tinder with
1:24:14
someone. I just love how.
1:24:19
It's a little character note because he's been so cocky so
1:24:22
far. This is the first thing you get
1:24:24
thing. Actually, you know what?
1:24:25
He's making a lot of this shit up as he goes along, and he's
1:24:28
not half as clever as he thinks he is.
1:24:30
Yeah, yeah. So it's a lovely.
1:24:31
Little character moment inside this really funny bit.
1:24:34
I know when shooting that bit, Harrison Ford didn't learn the
1:24:36
lines properly, intentionally, so that it would feel more
1:24:39
spontaneous and like Ham was making it up as he went along.
1:24:42
It works really, really well. I think it's maybe the funniest
1:24:44
moment in the film. Yeah, it's up there.
1:24:46
It's when he just looks away from the camera and he just tell
1:24:48
he's turned around, like gritting his teeth a little bit.
1:24:50
He's like, oh, it's that shit boring conversation.
1:24:53
Anyway, yeah. I think this whole scene is a
1:24:57
really well directed action scene.
1:24:58
To be fair, it feels like mayhem when the shots are flying, but
1:25:01
it's never confusing. You always know what's going on
1:25:04
and I quite like that really snobby Empire guy where he's
1:25:07
like, where are you taking this thing?
1:25:11
That's surely racist. Surely.
1:25:13
Yeah, it has to be. Nobody knows.
1:25:16
What the fuck's going on do the Death Star?
1:25:19
They can just. Walk around wherever the one.
1:25:21
Go in the control. Rooms walk down corridors,
1:25:26
there's just no communication on the desktop whatsoever.
1:25:29
But the thing that gets me is that it takes some fucking ages
1:25:32
to hit all the storm troopers, but they can shoot cameras out
1:25:35
or whatever they are just immediately, it's just a boom.
1:25:37
That's that one's going, that one's going, that's fine, that's
1:25:40
fine. It's like just go and get her
1:25:41
and get her out of here. It takes too long, but I do love
1:25:44
it. You know, when they go down and
1:25:45
it's Luke Skywalker and they come out and everybody comes in,
1:25:49
he's like, we're going to have company.
1:25:50
And then the music kicks in and it's like, Oh yeah, that starts
1:25:53
to ramp up. And then I love that shoot out,
1:25:55
that back and forth. It's fantastic.
1:25:56
It's brilliant, brilliant stuff. It is great after seeing.
1:26:00
It's pure B movie from this bit, isn't it?
1:26:02
Just a big old chit out and in a way, like it kind of shows
1:26:06
Luke's this limitations a little bit.
1:26:08
Like I think he could have made it a bit more interesting
1:26:10
visually because basically it's just two groups of people, like
1:26:13
opposite ends of the corridor. But the thing that I really like
1:26:16
about it was that it's exactly the type of scene you'd
1:26:18
replicate as a kid out on the street with you down the back
1:26:22
and hide behind bins. It's just really fun on that
1:26:25
level and it just really works. Yeah, I think it's great as
1:26:29
well. I like it a bit where they're
1:26:30
stuck in that corridor and they're in the middle of this
1:26:32
huge firefight and the zingers flying back and forth between
1:26:35
Leah and Han. Yeah, she's just been rescued.
1:26:38
And the first thing she says is looks like you couldn't have
1:26:40
only escape route. Absolutely furious.
1:26:45
Yeah, he is. So 2.
1:26:49
Great and very different scenes there as Luke makes the jump
1:26:52
from tattooing to the Death Star.
1:26:54
The middle, like the Star Wars, is where the pacing picks right
1:26:57
up. From here on in, it's pretty
1:26:58
much relentless. So strap yourself in here.
1:27:01
We'll go. Oh.
1:27:02
Yeah. The clue?
1:27:10
George Lucas was the mom of the vision to create the world of
1:27:12
Star Wars, but he needed one hell of a creative team around
1:27:15
him to bring his dream to life. People like John Williams, his
1:27:18
composer, Gilbert Taylor's director of photography, and
1:27:21
Marshall Lucas as the editor all played key roles, and we're
1:27:24
going to talk about them all. But we're going to start back
1:27:26
with Lucas, this time as the writer of Star Wars.
1:27:30
So. We've talked about Lucas already
1:27:32
as a director and the man who got the film made, but what do
1:27:35
you think of his work here as the writer, the script, the
1:27:37
story, the characters? I think he's.
1:27:40
Overflowing with ideas, isn't he?
1:27:42
I mean, every version of the script that he turned in at this
1:27:44
point was like 200 pages. 300 pages.
1:27:48
But as a writer, yeah. I mean, he can't write dialogue
1:27:51
particularly well unless he's got incredible actors to deliver
1:27:54
it. But as a story arc, it's as old
1:27:57
as time, isn't it? That old young hero and the old
1:28:00
mentor and good against evil, light against arc.
1:28:02
This whole force that's everywhere.
1:28:04
It's all the classic tropes. But I think the writing really
1:28:07
shines when he does give that character of Leah.
1:28:11
He does give her that dialogue. He does know how he wants each
1:28:14
of his characters to be. And he does know where each of
1:28:16
his characters are going. And they do feel very fleshed
1:28:19
out and the world is very much accessible and at the same time
1:28:23
brand new. So I think that all comes along
1:28:25
on the right of the way he builds everything is really
1:28:27
good. Yeah, I think it's.
1:28:28
Interesting, because in coming up with that plot, I know Lucas
1:28:30
took a lot of inspiration from a guy called Joseph Campbell.
1:28:33
He was a professor of mythology. He'd written a book called The
1:28:36
Hero with 1000 Faces. And Lucas took a lot of
1:28:38
inspiration from that book because Joseph Campbell had
1:28:41
basically studied stories going back thousands of years across
1:28:45
cultures all over the world. And he mapped out a 12 point
1:28:48
plot that stories about a hero usually tended to follow.
1:28:51
You can see that online if you're interested.
1:28:52
And when you read those 12 points, it more or less
1:28:55
described as a plot of Star Wars, and it works really well.
1:28:58
I think Lucas was smart enough to realize that he could tell
1:29:00
this really classic story, and by dropping it into the universe
1:29:04
he'd made, it would still feel new and exciting and fresh.
1:29:07
Yeah. Yeah.
1:29:08
Again, let's give him credit for this universe that's been
1:29:11
created here because that's all from his imagination.
1:29:14
Every concept, every alien, every spaceship, every other
1:29:18
character. That's all down to his writing.
1:29:21
So give him credit for that. And I think if you divide it
1:29:24
into story, character, script, the story works just as well as
1:29:29
it needs to. It's kind of functional, but
1:29:31
that's all it needs to be. Doesn't need to be any cleverer
1:29:33
than it is. And he doesn't clutter it all.
1:29:35
He knows exactly how to move the story forward in terms of
1:29:38
character. Again, I think it's really well
1:29:40
written. He knows what each character
1:29:42
needs to do. He gives most characters a
1:29:44
little mini arc for them to go through in one way or the other.
1:29:47
And he knows when to bring them into a film, when to kill some
1:29:50
of them off. It's only really dialogue.
1:29:53
I think this is where it really falters.
1:29:56
Other than that, very solid, very good like I mentioned.
1:30:00
Before, but the open and crawl that was inspired by Flash
1:30:02
Gordon. But I think there's a lot more
1:30:04
that comes from that, especially with the writing.
1:30:07
I've got a quote from Lucas here.
1:30:09
He tried to buy the rights to Flash Gordon, the cereals with
1:30:12
Coppola, to make a film on it. And Lucas said about that.
1:30:15
I especially love the Flash Gordon cereals.
1:30:17
Of course, I realized how crude and badly done they were.
1:30:20
But loving them that much when they were that awful, I began to
1:30:23
wonder what would happen if they were done really well.
1:30:25
I think we know now. Yeah, well, I think.
1:30:27
We do definitely think we know now.
1:30:30
That's exactly what this is. Well, they couldn't afford the.
1:30:33
Rights to Flash Gordon, so Lucas decided they just invented on.
1:30:36
He took inspiration from lots of other places as well.
1:30:38
We mentioned Japanese cinema earlier, but also real life
1:30:42
history. The empire came from the ancient
1:30:44
Roman Empire. Yeah.
1:30:45
World War 2. The X Wings and TIE fighter
1:30:47
battles are based on World War 2 movies like the Battle of
1:30:49
Britain and the Dambusters. The imperial uniforms are based
1:30:53
on Nazi s s uniforms he took from real world religions.
1:30:57
May the force be with you was from a Catholic saying may peace
1:30:59
be with you. And when he was asked where the
1:31:01
force came from, Mark Hamill said it's basically religion's
1:31:05
greatest hits, yeah. Yeah.
1:31:07
Lucas. Took from science fiction,
1:31:09
fantasy novels as well from Frank Herbert's June.
1:31:11
He took things like most your farmers and spice mines.
1:31:14
And Frank Herbert said when David Lynch came to direct June,
1:31:18
he had trouble with the fact that Star Wars has used so many
1:31:20
of my ideas. We identified 16 lifts and
1:31:24
calculated the odds of this being a coincidence.
1:31:26
Produced a larger number than the number of stars in the
1:31:28
universe. All right, Matt.
1:31:35
And it took from other science fiction movies, like R2D2 was
1:31:37
inspired by the robot in Silent Running, and C3PO was inspired
1:31:41
by Maria, the robot from Fritz Lang.
1:31:42
The Metropolis. Metropolis.
1:31:44
Yeah. And the spaceships and how they
1:31:46
were shot was inspired by 2001. So what do you think of all
1:31:50
that? Lucas taking inspiration from so
1:31:51
many places? Is it impressive that he melded
1:31:53
these things together successfully?
1:31:55
Or does it make you think less of Star Wars knowing the lots of
1:31:58
it's inspired by different things I'm.
1:32:01
Absolutely fine with it, to be honest, as a general point of
1:32:03
principle, when we talk about this in film, about directors,
1:32:06
right, and taking influences from here, from there, from this
1:32:10
guy, from these set of films. I don't really have a problem
1:32:13
with it as long as it's given that fresh liquor paint, as long
1:32:15
as it's spun into something new, which credit where credits you.
1:32:19
Lucas does make it all seem really new and he puts it
1:32:22
together in a way that. Yeah, OK, That's from
1:32:24
Metropolis. That's from Flash Gordon.
1:32:26
I've never seen Metropolis look like this law.
1:32:29
We've also Flash Gordon savers who don't move half as quickly
1:32:32
as Star Wars does. So yeah, I've got absolutely no
1:32:35
problem with that happening. Yeah, from my point of view, art
1:32:38
is theft, isn't it? And if you're going to steal,
1:32:40
you steal from the best, which is what Tarantino said.
1:32:43
So I think this wasn't done maliciously.
1:32:46
I think this was done because these are things that genuinely
1:32:48
excited Lucas and he You're going to steal from anything.
1:32:51
You steal from religion, which is as old as time.
1:32:53
These stories, it's proved that the work, because they're still
1:32:56
around the Roman Empire, you can take as much influence from that
1:32:59
as you want, but you know for a fact of what it is, you can take
1:33:03
everything about that history and take all the good bits
1:33:05
because you know for a fact it's going to work like they were
1:33:07
bastards. So if you create these space
1:33:09
bastards, you just kind of, you know when in Rome.
1:33:14
So that's the whole point. If you're going to steal, you
1:33:16
steal from the best, like Matt said there.
1:33:17
I think there's some sources that people wouldn't expect, and
1:33:20
I think a lot of people listening to this might not know
1:33:22
all the influences that have been put into it.
1:33:24
And they'll be like, my life is a lie.
1:33:27
I thought, I thought Star Wars was a completely original piece
1:33:30
of work. But he's taken from culture.
1:33:33
And like Matt said, he's spun them and he spun them in the
1:33:35
right way. I think.
1:33:36
Yeah, we've had. The Empire, We've had the 1st
1:33:38
Order, the next Star Wars. Thrilled.
1:33:40
You'd have to be called space Busters.
1:33:45
I'm keeping that. For mine.
1:33:49
That's what the film. 'S called.
1:33:52
I think there was one thing, though, that Lucas did that
1:33:54
hadn't really been done before, and that was to create that sort
1:33:57
of huge future that Star Wars has, a world which isn't perfect
1:34:00
and pristine. It looks like people have
1:34:01
actually been living there. I've got a call from John Barry,
1:34:04
who was the production designer. He said George didn't want
1:34:07
anything in Star Wars to stand out.
1:34:09
He wanted it all to look real and used.
1:34:11
And I said, finally somebody's doing it the right way.
1:34:15
So what do you think of that was an idea from Lucas?
1:34:17
Do you think that works that lived in world he created?
1:34:20
Yeah, I think it. Totally works.
1:34:22
That's a real original part of it.
1:34:24
The story and all of that is safe because if you know that
1:34:27
your story is based on something that is guaranteed to work, then
1:34:30
you can take all these extra elements and start adding
1:34:32
things, because I don't think that's a much of A risk.
1:34:34
If that didn't work, it wouldn't harm the story at all.
1:34:36
It can only benefit. Well, in terms of the script,
1:34:40
the script went through many drafts and there were some
1:34:42
massive changes from those earliest drafts.
1:34:45
Have you heard about any of those?
1:34:46
No go. For it, this is going to be
1:34:48
hilarious. So, Lucas.
1:34:49
First First treatment wasn't called Star Wars, it was called
1:34:54
the Journal of the Wills. What a.
1:34:59
Lunatic. So I've read this.
1:35:02
Treatment and the first sentence of it is the story of Mace
1:35:06
Windu. It was via Jedi Bendu of Apuchi
1:35:08
who was related to us BCJ fape a paddle 1 learner to the fame
1:35:12
Jedi. I mean what?
1:35:15
I mean, sounds great. I mean, I've.
1:35:18
Seen Star Wars and I don't know what any of that means.
1:35:21
Yeah. Imagine what that initial crawl
1:35:23
was that Depala read. Oh my God, anything like that to
1:35:27
go? Well, the first person who read
1:35:30
that treatment was Jeff Berg, who was George Lucas's agent.
1:35:32
Berg gave just one note on the whole treatment, which was I
1:35:36
don't know what this means. So after being.
1:35:40
Told it was too confusing, Lucas changed the title from the
1:35:43
Journal of the Wills to the Journal of the Wills Saga one
1:35:47
the Star Wars No. Listening.
1:35:51
To feedback, there is that an. Extra shit.
1:35:56
At one point, the main characters were all robots.
1:36:00
Right another. Point they were all dwarfs.
1:36:03
Luke was originally called Luke Star Killer and at various
1:36:06
stages he was a 60 year old general.
1:36:08
At one point he was a woman. And Han Solo was originally not
1:36:12
human but a huge green skinned monster with no nose and gills.
1:36:16
So do you like any of those original ideas?
1:36:19
No, no, not a bit of one. Not a single one.
1:36:25
So Star Wars. Is sometimes criticized for the
1:36:27
lack of depth in the writing. I'm not sure it has too much to
1:36:30
say beyond what we see happening on the screen.
1:36:32
Do you agree with that? Does it bother you if you do?
1:36:35
No, it doesn't have any depth through it at all.
1:36:37
But like, well, it doesn't. But Readers doesn't have any
1:36:42
depth. Joss doesn't have any depth,
1:36:43
doesn't something being brilliant.
1:36:44
So it really doesn't bother me with this either, but I.
1:36:48
Actually think this does, I think it has a philosophical
1:36:50
depth to it. I think this whole force and
1:36:52
this whole religion that he has invented and this real good and
1:36:56
evil divide, it does try to have that.
1:36:59
It's all about belief. It's about self belief and
1:37:01
that's what the film's about. I do think it's spiritual.
1:37:04
It has got elements to it, very simplified, very much like a
1:37:07
Penguin Classic book on faith, but it's still there.
1:37:12
No, I agree. I think it is a bit of a missed
1:37:13
opportunity really because he does set these things up, like
1:37:16
the force can be taken as a religion or it could be taken as
1:37:19
a spiritual thing, the empire or space Nazis.
1:37:22
And he could have done a lot with commenting on the real
1:37:24
world in his world. But he doesn't really try to
1:37:27
other than just setting it up, which is a shame I think.
1:37:30
I don't. Think he knows how to though.
1:37:32
No, I don't think he. Does just do?
1:37:33
It starts. That's fine.
1:37:35
Don't bother, let's just. Be grateful you got rid of the
1:37:38
previous drafts and we ended up with yeah, yeah, rather than
1:37:41
asking them to make any more complex.
1:37:43
No, it's fine, George. Don't be yourself out.
1:37:46
Fine mate. Leave it.
1:37:47
I mean, this is absolute. Proof that nothing comes out
1:37:49
pristine from the first effort. You know you've got to write and
1:37:52
rewrite and keep writing and keep writing and if anything,
1:37:54
this is inspiration. So if it started like that and
1:37:56
ends up like this, fuck me. What a journey.
1:37:59
Journey. Of the world's, yeah.
1:38:03
Another criticism Star Wars tends to receive is around the
1:38:05
dialogue. A lot of people say it's not
1:38:07
very natural or realistic, the way the characters talk.
1:38:10
There's a famous line, isn't it, that Harrison Ford said that
1:38:12
George Lucas on the set? Yeah, Yeah.
1:38:14
He said you can take the ship, but you can't see it.
1:38:16
Yeah, yeah. Is that a fair criticism of the
1:38:18
dialogue in Star Wars, do you think?
1:38:20
I think it. Is yeah, absolutely 100%.
1:38:23
But if you look at the David Prowse voice takes on YouTube,
1:38:27
you can see how the dialogue isn't going to save anybody
1:38:29
here. It's atrocious.
1:38:31
You know, if you say to anyone and deliver that amount of
1:38:33
exposition for a final line where you say you are part of a
1:38:35
rebel alliance and a traitor, take her away.
1:38:38
Yeah. Oh, thanks very much.
1:38:39
Well, that's her back story. But if you just.
1:38:41
Kind of go. It just seems like there's the
1:38:45
exposition you need, but the way that's delivered by Earl Jones
1:38:48
and that performance, and it's like it's more Vera's
1:38:50
frustration in the performance that you don't feel like it's
1:38:53
exposition. It's giving you that
1:38:54
information, but it's perfectly delivered, yeah.
1:38:57
I do understand the criticisms, the dialogue, it's not the most
1:39:00
natural level here by a long way.
1:39:02
Where I do think the dialogue works really well though is in
1:39:05
again, the world building. I like how Lucas just drops in
1:39:07
references to random things and then doesn't explain what they
1:39:10
are. Like Han saying it's the ship
1:39:12
that did the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs makes it feel like
1:39:15
there's all this stuff going on off the screen that we're not
1:39:17
seeing. So I think in lots of ways it's
1:39:20
a bit of a master class in world building Star Wars.
1:39:22
And I think it works really, really well with the dialogue in
1:39:24
that way. The things the characters say is
1:39:27
really trite and really poorly written at times, but there are
1:39:31
some good things about it as well.
1:39:32
Again, to play devil's advocate, Matt, what about you?
1:39:35
What do you think of the dialogue?
1:39:36
I know you hate it. I'm disgusted by it.
1:39:41
So no, it's not good. And like, say John, the only
1:39:44
good thing about it is those little kind of elements that
1:39:47
drops in there that hints at that wider universe, like to
1:39:50
drop in The Clone Wars. What?
1:39:51
The Clone War. That's a good.
1:39:54
Little bit, but it's all the functional dialogue that just
1:39:57
joins up the dots between scenes and just kind of has to get from
1:40:01
point A to point B. It's like Lucas himself is
1:40:03
really bored in that and will literally just write down the
1:40:06
first thing that makes some kind of sense to.
1:40:09
Without. Any idea of how it's going to
1:40:11
sound or how the actors are going to deal with it?
1:40:14
One that stood out to me on my last rewatch.
1:40:16
This is when Lucas with Uncle Owen and he's asking about Obi
1:40:19
Wan and Uncle Uncle. I don't think he exists anymore.
1:40:23
Yeah, who? Phrases it like that.
1:40:27
For his work as a writer of Star Wars, Lucas was nominated for an
1:40:30
Oscar. He lost out to Matt.
1:40:34
Woody Allen. Ronnie Hall and Marshall
1:40:36
Brickman for Annie Hall. Yeah.
1:40:38
And on writing Star Wars, George Lucas himself said the reason I
1:40:42
wrote Star Wars was to give young people a place for their
1:40:44
imaginations to run around in. I wanted them to think about
1:40:47
colonizing Mars. And the only way that's going to
1:40:50
happen is to have some dumb kid fantasize about it.
1:40:53
I guess you could say it's our only hope.
1:40:57
All right, George. Quote yourself.
1:41:09
We've not really mentioned him to this point that much, but
1:41:11
there is another giant of Hollywood who worked on Star
1:41:14
Wars. The great John.
1:41:15
Williams compose all the music for the film, some of the most
1:41:18
iconic music ever composed. So what do you think of John
1:41:22
Williams work on Star Wars? Is the music still good?
1:41:25
Oh yeah. It's still epic, It's still
1:41:27
absolutely one of the best pieces that he's ever written
1:41:30
for any film soundtrack. I think one of the big
1:41:32
challenges he's got as the composers, as the film Star
1:41:35
Wars, could have been really calm or silly or trivial.
1:41:38
I think his music is a massive, massive part of making sure that
1:41:41
it's not. But it's not over serious.
1:41:43
It's got that spirit of fun. It's got adventure because bits
1:41:46
with that are very moving. Bits with that are incredibly
1:41:49
dramatic. It's easy to play with his best,
1:41:51
isn't it? Listen right.
1:41:55
Well, it's new. Without John Williams, without
1:41:59
this score, there is no Star Wars.
1:42:02
But. That's it.
1:42:03
You take this score off. It just completely lacks
1:42:05
everything. This adds everything that it
1:42:08
needed to round it off, to become what it is.
1:42:12
It's it's complete character is this score.
1:42:14
It tells you exactly how you need to feel.
1:42:17
Where we're going to go. It's all here.
1:42:19
Without John Williams, this would have flopped.
1:42:22
He's essential. I know Originally, though, Lucas
1:42:24
had planned to follow what Stanley Kubrick had done with
1:42:26
2001 and not have an original score but use classical music to
1:42:30
give the film that grandiose feel that he wanted.
1:42:32
I think that's. What he's done anyway.
1:42:34
But John Williams has just created it to an original score.
1:42:36
But I think that vibe again, is the same as what really
1:42:40
influences him or what really excites him.
1:42:41
Stanley Kubrick's done it and that really worked.
1:42:43
So he's taking it off Space Odyssey and he said, well, I'm
1:42:45
going to do that here and use classical because he knows it
1:42:48
works. He's seen it before, so he's
1:42:50
going to go down that route, but he does it and again, takes the
1:42:53
idea and it's elevated. Well, he mentioned the idea of
1:42:56
Steven Spielberg, who said you're making a very original
1:42:59
film, you need original music to go with it.
1:43:01
And Williams had just worked with Spielberg and won an Oscar
1:43:03
for Jaws, so Spielberg introduced him to Lucas.
1:43:07
So Williams proposed the idea of a 19th century classical
1:43:11
romantic style with recurring use of light motif.
1:43:14
A light motif is basically having a recurring musical theme
1:43:17
in the film that comes up over and over again.
1:43:19
Yeah. And he took inspiration from
1:43:21
classical pieces. Gustav Holst and Stravinsky were
1:43:23
two. But for the main Star Wars
1:43:25
theme, Williams borrowed from a 1942 movie called Kings Row,
1:43:29
composed by Eric Wolfgang Korngold.
1:43:31
Yeah. Have you heard that music from
1:43:33
Kings Row? Have.
1:43:34
Yeah. Can you hear?
1:43:35
Star Wars in it, do you think? Absolutely. 100% have you read
1:43:39
the comments? Yeah, on.
1:43:40
YouTube people are just like. Me childhood's ruined.
1:43:43
This is Star Wars. Was that you, Wesley?
1:43:45
It was me. Every comment.
1:43:49
To me with a different account. Took his fucking.
1:43:53
Ages well worth it. Well, most people, probably.
1:43:57
Haven't heard that, so we'll play a little bit of it now and
1:43:59
let people make their own minds up.
1:44:01
So this is King's role by Eric Wolfgang Corn Gold from 1942.
1:44:05
See if you can hear Star Wars you.
1:44:07
Will there it is.
1:44:23
Star Wars, I mean King's role. So.
1:44:27
Even the best borrow sometimes, I suppose.
1:44:29
Yeah, but of course. So what's?
1:44:31
John Williams best moment in the film, do you think my favorite?
1:44:34
Music is probably when Star Wars appears on the screen and you
1:44:37
get that initial bang. That is fantastic.
1:44:42
I would go. For the binary sunset scene,
1:44:45
because it's so integral to the story, no dialogue, and it's the
1:44:50
same. Could have been quite cheesy,
1:44:51
you know, the young hero staring off into the distance, thinking
1:44:54
about things. But that music, the way that
1:44:57
Williams has taken that theme and made it really melancholic,
1:45:00
he's filled full of yearning. And that music tells you exactly
1:45:04
what's going through Luke's head at that minute.
1:45:06
It fills it in beautifully. It matches the visuals so well,
1:45:21
it pays it so well, and it just really elevates that scene.
1:45:24
So I put brown sauce on a bacon sandwich.
1:45:27
It's already good. Now this works.
1:45:29
Fucking hell. That.
1:45:31
Scene as well is a good example of that light more teeth theme I
1:45:33
was talking about because it's used there and then that music
1:45:36
is also used in the final scene of the film.
1:45:38
When looking hand collect the medals from Leah, the melody is
1:45:40
identical, but in the final scene it's much more bombastic
1:45:43
and triumphant. For his work on Star Wars, John
1:45:46
Williams won his third Oscar. And today the AFI ranked the
1:45:50
Star Wars score as the greatest score in movie history, right.
1:45:54
Ahead of. Gone with the way in Lawrence of
1:45:56
Arabia, Psycho and the Godfather.
1:45:58
Williams is 6th on the list as well with Jaws.
1:46:00
Do you think Star Wars is there with its place at #1?
1:46:03
It's in the conversation. Personally, I think he went and
1:46:06
embedded it with Empire's soundtrack.
1:46:08
I think that's a better suite of music.
1:46:10
I think there was more to it, but you know, it's not one I'm
1:46:12
going to be disgusted about being at #1.
1:46:16
Also the. Score for Star Wars went into
1:46:18
the Billboard Top 20 in the US, something which had never
1:46:21
happened before. And to this day, it's the
1:46:23
highest selling film score of all time.
1:46:26
Really. Understandable.
1:46:27
Deservedly so. Lucas.
1:46:29
Said about Williams music. To hear Johnny play the music
1:46:32
for the first time, it was a thrill beyond anything I can
1:46:35
describe. Well, there exactly, yeah,
1:46:38
calls. Him, Johnny, apparently looking
1:46:40
at John. Williams.
1:46:40
He's anything but Johnny. But to finish with John.
1:46:48
Williams, the legendary composer himself, says about Star Wars.
1:46:52
Star Wars was an extraordinary journey.
1:46:54
I tend not to fixate on my previous work, but it's the one
1:46:57
I'm asked about most often, and I'm as proud of it as any other
1:47:00
work I have done. Made the.
1:47:01
Film what it is, yeah. All of the great.
1:47:07
Work done elsewhere doesn't count for a whole lot if the
1:47:09
film doesn't look good. So Gilbert Taylor was the
1:47:12
director of photography on Star Wars, responsible for working
1:47:15
with Lucas to create the specific look the film has.
1:47:18
He had quite some filmography even before Star Wars, and he'd
1:47:20
been DP on lots of films. The most notable were The Down
1:47:23
Busters, A Hard Day's Night, Repulsion, Frenzy, and The
1:47:26
Yeoman. First off, is Gilbert Taylor's
1:47:29
work on Star Wars a bit overlooked, do you think?
1:47:32
I think it's. Massively, massively overlooked.
1:47:35
It's everything that sells into this world, you know?
1:47:38
It's got that real gritty look to it, which makes it
1:47:41
accessible. But at the same time it's not
1:47:43
pretentious, it's not pompous, it's not overlit.
1:47:45
All the sets are with the respect that they deserve.
1:47:48
Everything's got its own style and look and real texture.
1:47:51
The colour palettes he uses are fantastic.
1:47:54
Just the way you've got all the dark of the Empire and the
1:47:56
silver and the metallic, like it's never boring.
1:47:59
Gives you enough shadow and depth.
1:48:01
I think you really explore shadow and depth excellently in
1:48:04
the film. I think it's totally, totally
1:48:06
overlooked. I mean, if you hadn't mentioned
1:48:08
his name, there honestly wouldn't have been able to tell
1:48:10
you who the cinematographer was on this.
1:48:13
It's actually a really good job that he does.
1:48:15
He's got to go from scenes in deep space to brightly lit in
1:48:18
TV's on spaceships to dusty in TV's on this desert planet, to
1:48:23
really dark stuff like in the detention cells and the trash
1:48:26
compactor. There's a lot that he's got to
1:48:28
do, and it all flows really, really well together.
1:48:31
It all feels like it's all the same universe.
1:48:34
It's all the same world, maybe even a bit too understated for
1:48:37
its own good. Well, Lucas originally wanted
1:48:40
Geoffrey Unsworth to be the DP for Star Wars, mainly because
1:48:43
he'd shot 2001 for Kubrick. He wasn't available.
1:48:46
So Gilbert Taylor, who was DP on Kubrick's film before 2001,
1:48:50
Doctor Strangelove was brought in and boy did they clash, Lucas
1:48:54
and Taylor. Gary Kurtz called Taylor old
1:48:57
school and crotchety, whereas Lucas obviously was young and
1:48:59
wanted to do new things. Have you heard about the sort of
1:49:02
things they clashed over? No, I haven't.
1:49:05
So lighting. Lucas would always make
1:49:07
suggestions of how to light a scene, and Taylor did not like
1:49:10
that. One of the reasons Lucas hired
1:49:13
Taylor is because Lucas wanted Star Wars to have a documentary
1:49:16
sort of feel. Because of Doctor Strange living
1:49:18
a Hard Day's Night, he thought Taylor could deliver that.
1:49:21
Taylor didn't like that either and Gary Kurtz tried to replace
1:49:24
Taylor midway through production with a cinematographer called
1:49:27
Harry Waxman who did the Wickerman, but the camera crew
1:49:30
made it clear if Taylor went, so did they.
1:49:33
And then Fox that other dispute by basically backing Taylor, not
1:49:37
Lucas. So how Star Wars was shot it
1:49:39
seems is in a lot of ways down to Taylor.
1:49:42
So, seeing as he is almost largely responsible for it, what
1:49:45
do you think Gilbert Taylor's best shot in the film is?
1:49:48
Again, I'm. Going to go back to that scene
1:49:49
that I always go back to where it sees the burning house and it
1:49:52
cuts that wide shot and it holds that for literally, well, it's
1:49:55
only a few seconds. It's not long.
1:49:57
It's the transition as well between that real sense of space
1:50:02
them and then the TIE Fighter comes across and you get that
1:50:04
wipe. Yeah, it goes from one to the
1:50:06
next. I love the way that cuts
1:50:08
together. That's excellent.
1:50:10
I'm going to go. For one that does really well
1:50:12
and combine in several different elements.
1:50:14
And it's only quite small actually, but it just gets me
1:50:16
every time. It's when you see an X wing dip
1:50:19
into the trench for the first time.
1:50:22
In the Bobs. It's the.
1:50:23
Bob, it's the fact that's a genius, genius suit.
1:50:26
It bobs. Is it right itself?
1:50:29
It gets me every time those. Moments are fantastic.
1:50:32
Those shots of camera work there fantastic.
1:50:35
It's so great. Yeah, I think the whole point.
1:50:37
Of that is that it's so good and it's so well done.
1:50:39
It doesn't feel like it's a camera.
1:50:41
You feel like you're in the next week.
1:50:42
Oh, totally. Well, Taylor did not return for
1:50:45
Empire, no doubt because of the strained relationship between
1:50:47
him and Lucas. He did, though, shoot Flash
1:50:50
Gordon in 1980. Yeah.
1:50:52
Oh amazing. I wonder how, Lucas?
1:50:54
Felt about that the movie he wanted to make.
1:50:58
It's probably. Like a massive fuck you.
1:51:00
That's the only reason he's done it.
1:51:01
And when. Taylor was given a BSc Lifetime
1:51:04
Achievement Award in 2001. Star Wars was cited as one of
1:51:06
the major reasons why Gilbert Taylor passed away in 2013.
1:51:11
But he said about his time on Star Wars.
1:51:13
I hated almost every second of my time on the picture.
1:51:17
George avoided all meetings and all contact with me from day
1:51:20
one, so I read the extra long script many times and made my
1:51:25
own decisions as to how it should be shot.
1:51:28
I experimented with photographing the lightsabers
1:51:30
and other things and would say I was quite successful.
1:51:33
Yep. Good lad, yeah.
1:51:38
The final crew member on Star Wars they're going to talk about
1:51:40
is the person credited with editing the film.
1:51:43
Marsha Lucas was George Lucas wife at the time and at that
1:51:45
point she'd worked with Lucas before on THX 1138 and is
1:51:48
working on two Scorsese films in Taxi Driver and New York, NY.
1:51:53
Now, we don't usually talk about editors all that much, but
1:51:56
Marsha Lucas is often credited as the person who saved Star
1:51:59
Wars, right? Do we know much?
1:52:01
About this story personally. No, not a whole.
1:52:04
Lot. So the original editor for Star
1:52:07
Wars was John Jimsen, who had edited Zulu A Hard Day's Night
1:52:10
in Frenzy. So a great experience.
1:52:12
But his first editor of Star Wars was, in Lucas words, an
1:52:15
absolute disaster. Thank you.
1:52:18
It was great. Well, you can see some of that
1:52:23
first cut online today on YouTube.
1:52:25
And the opening where we're with R2 and 3PO in the space battle,
1:52:28
it keeps cutting to Tatooine to look with his friends and it
1:52:31
totally kills the film. There's no pace to it at all.
1:52:34
Lucas was devastated when he saw the court.
1:52:36
He knew it was bad but didn't know how to fix it.
1:52:39
And Marshall, Lucas says about that.
1:52:41
George had his head in his hands.
1:52:42
And I said, yes, it is a mess, but there's a great film in
1:52:45
there. It can be saved.
1:52:47
So Lucas fire Jimsen and asked Marsha to do it.
1:52:51
She brought in Richard, Hugh and Paul Hirsch to help her.
1:52:53
They'd recently done the conversation in Carrie.
1:52:55
They took out all the unnecessary exposition, like
1:52:58
those scenes with Luke, and we edited the film so the piece was
1:53:01
dictated by the cuts rather than the actors.
1:53:03
In Marsha's words, we speed it up and made it tighter.
1:53:07
I mean, the film does move like a rocket pretty much from the
1:53:09
start. Do you think you can tell there
1:53:11
were problems with the editing at any point?
1:53:13
Not when you see this cut that we all know.
1:53:16
I don't think so, but I think that's the case with most films.
1:53:18
I don't think you're going to get the first cut back and it's
1:53:20
going to be perfect. But for them to construct what
1:53:23
we've got now out of it, it does yet again as it went from
1:53:26
Gilbert Taylor and we're now going to people who've worked on
1:53:28
Scorsese films and real professional old school classic
1:53:33
film makers read these people who have got real classic
1:53:36
experience. So they didn't treat this like
1:53:38
this daft sci-fi film that it is on the page.
1:53:41
They treat this like it was Lawrence of Arabia or something,
1:53:43
you know, that brought everything to it, like we're
1:53:45
going to make this the best edit that we possibly can.
1:53:47
Absolutely, yeah. I think the final attack on the
1:53:49
Death Star in particular has really well and it's really
1:53:52
fast-paced, but it's like crystal clear what's going on.
1:53:55
And the seconds before Luke fires the final shot that blows
1:53:57
a death stop. The cuts are coming at like two
1:53:59
or three a second. It's lightning, but it's really,
1:54:02
really clear what's happening. It's dead impressive.
1:54:04
I always. Think like from looking for
1:54:06
little niggles. I kind of wish the whole
1:54:08
infiltration of the Death Star. I'd like that to be a little
1:54:10
more tense. I kind of feel like the film
1:54:12
maybe should spend a little bit longer because it just seemed
1:54:15
that they kind of get in and out there a bit quick.
1:54:17
But it's very small flaws if they're the ones I'm picking
1:54:20
out, because when this editing works and it comes together, it
1:54:23
works brilliantly well after that.
1:54:25
First disastrous court. Marsha Lucas, Richard Chew, and
1:54:27
Paul Hirsch ended up winning an Oscar for Best Editing.
1:54:30
Paul Hirsch returned for The Empire Strikes Back, and Marsha
1:54:33
Lucas returned for Empire Return of the Jedi as well.
1:54:36
Marsha and George divorced in 1983, but he still acknowledges
1:54:39
her importance to the film about her work on Star Wars.
1:54:42
Marsha Lucas quite modestly says George knew it wasn't right and
1:54:46
I told him how to fix it. That's it in a nutshell.
1:54:49
And when the movie came out, well, that was a whole lot of
1:54:52
fun. I'm very, very proud to see I
1:54:54
worked on Star Wars. Yeah, lovely.
1:54:58
Here with the people who we should mention briefly whose
1:55:00
work was massively important are Ralph Macquarie and Ben Burt.
1:55:04
Ralph Macquarie was the concept artist Lucas hired right at the
1:55:06
outset, and he designed how lots of Star Wars should look.
1:55:10
So get this as something to put on your designer CV.
1:55:14
He designed Darth Vader, the stormtroopers, the 2 draw, 2D2
1:55:18
and C3PO Chewbacca. The X win is a tie fight as the
1:55:22
Star Destroyers and the other spaceships, the Death Star and
1:55:25
the lightsabers. Well, yeah, that's everything in
1:55:28
it. Anything.
1:55:31
Else he did, you didn't do. Yeah, when Lucas.
1:55:34
Submitted the script for Star Wars to Alan Lard at 20th
1:55:37
Century Fox. He included Ralph Mcquarrie's
1:55:39
concept art to help visualize the idea to help sell it.
1:55:43
Alan Lard said without that art, there was no way it could have
1:55:46
got past the board. Absolutely integral.
1:55:49
Lucky man, Lucas. Lucky Lucas.
1:55:55
That's what he's called. Ben Burt.
1:55:58
Was the sound design on Star Wars who created pretty much all
1:56:01
the now iconic sound effects. So this included the blasters,
1:56:05
Darth Vader's breathing, R2 beeps and whistles, chewies,
1:56:08
growls, the lightsabers, the screen the tyre fighters make
1:56:11
when they fly past camera. I'm a particularly big fan of
1:56:14
that sound effect in the Death Star.
1:56:16
But perfect that babe. Ben Burt, absolute legend.
1:56:26
So he won the Oscar for this and then he also won three more for
1:56:29
Raiders, ET and the Last Crusade.
1:56:31
So so many like iconic sounds from the sky.
1:56:35
Absolute legend. Have some?
1:56:37
CV for him as well. So Star Wars with Lucas
1:56:40
Brainchild, and he had quite some vision, but with that
1:56:42
vision being so out there, he needed a very creative team
1:56:45
around him to pull it off. And with those names mentioned
1:56:47
there, John Williams, Gilbert Taylor, Marshall Lucas, Ralph
1:56:50
Macquarie and Ben Burt, I think he certainly had that, yeah.
1:56:54
Looking man, the end. Looking at the end.
1:57:05
Of Star Wars now and we're going to talk about two big moments.
1:57:09
We're obviously going all in on the Battle of Yavin where the
1:57:12
rebels attacked the Death Star. But first we're staying with our
1:57:14
heroes and talking about the demise of Obi Wan.
1:57:18
So after rescuing Leah, Luke, Leah, Han and Chewie get back to
1:57:22
the Falcon and made their escape.
1:57:24
What we want doesn't join them though, as he's killed in a
1:57:26
lightsaber duel with Darth Vader.
1:57:30
It's a massive catalyst for the end and it it builds up and it's
1:57:33
a real shock when you first watch it.
1:57:34
It's a real surprise that he's kind of like just given up.
1:57:36
And then you realize why he's done his job now he's got him
1:57:40
where he needs to be. They can escape.
1:57:41
He sacrifices himself. It's classic, isn't it?
1:57:43
But it is, I mean, quite clunky. It looks like 2 old men in a
1:57:47
sorting club with a couple of like broom handles just throwing
1:57:51
at each other. I normally like despise any kind
1:57:54
of dialogue during a sword fight.
1:57:58
When they get. Close in the clash and they come
1:58:00
forward and it's. I normally fucking hate that,
1:58:05
but this is the only film that I've seen where actually got.
1:58:07
Yeah, that really works. Yeah, you straight me down.
1:58:10
I'll become more powerful than possibly imagine it.
1:58:12
It does add to it and it makes the sword fight bearable.
1:58:15
It's great when you see them on the wide shot.
1:58:17
I love the scene. I think it's great.
1:58:18
I think it's. Your classic story trope, isn't
1:58:20
it? Like we mentioned the mentor
1:58:21
dying at the end of the second act and I think this is one of
1:58:24
the best examples of it. It brings some weight to the
1:58:26
film. And just after that moment as
1:58:27
well, when Obi Wan vanishes, the bit where Luke screams and then
1:58:31
Williams music like crescendos, wear hands like blast the door
1:58:34
kid. That bit feels massive.
1:58:36
It's absolutely brilliant. It's really well put together.
1:58:39
It's magic. He kind of hit any storm
1:58:40
troopers, but he can shoot the door lock.
1:58:45
No, it is a little bit creaky. I mean there's that bit where
1:58:48
Obi Wan kind of spins around made battle and it's like
1:58:51
watching the learner drive to do 3 point turn.
1:58:54
First time. But it's fine, I don't mind it.
1:58:56
I'd rather have that than an old Obi Wan twirling through there
1:59:01
and bouncing off the walls and Volta Nova Vader's head.
1:59:04
Because the important thing to me is that this duel, it's all
1:59:07
about the emotional beats behind it.
1:59:09
It's about master against The Apprentice.
1:59:11
It's about what Obi Wan is sacrificing and why he's
1:59:14
sacrificing it and why he's making sure that Luke sees what
1:59:17
he's doing. So all those emotions, all those
1:59:20
storytelling beats are all caught up in this.
1:59:21
So if it's a little bit creaky, I don't care because it works on
1:59:25
a deeper and a better level than just the visuals, so.
1:59:29
Obi Wan sort of sacrifices himself so you just can escape.
1:59:32
That wasn't actually in Lucas original script and it was
1:59:35
Marshall Lucas idea and she thought Obi Wan story was over
1:59:38
at this point because he didn't do anything in the final acts.
1:59:41
It was a good idea to do that, surely.
1:59:43
Yeah, perfectly. Yeah.
1:59:45
And there's a scene just after this on the Falcon as well where
1:59:47
Leah's consoling Luke over Obi Wan's death.
1:59:50
So does it bother you that Luke is way, way more bothered by the
1:59:55
death of some crazy old fossil he's known for 5 minutes and he
1:59:58
is by the deaths with the two people who brought him up since
2:00:00
he was a baby? Yeah.
2:00:02
That's ridiculous. He doesn't.
2:00:04
Want to do that? Harvest though, does things
2:00:05
more. Relieved so after.
2:00:13
Making it back to Yavin with the Death Star plans, Lucas suddenly
2:00:16
promoted straight in the Red Squad and given his own X Wing.
2:00:20
Straight in there, straight in. We see a mission briefing that
2:00:23
tells us everything we need to know to understand the Death
2:00:25
Star attack, and then we see the attack itself.
2:00:28
So space dogfight, trench runs and looks are complete when he
2:00:31
uses the force to destroy the Death Star.
2:00:34
OK. Here we go.
2:00:35
Because it's still the single best action sequence that's ever
2:00:39
been done in cinema. Yeah, with us.
2:00:43
But it is. It really is.
2:00:44
It's just from the beginning to end, it's so incredibly
2:00:48
involving. The editing is razor sharp.
2:00:51
I love the simplicity of it. I love how it's basically right.
2:00:54
You start off with point A, get to point B, and don't get
2:00:57
fucking shot down. No complications.
2:00:59
Yeah, so I love that. I love how emotionally involving
2:01:03
it is, because even though you don't know any of these pilots,
2:01:06
I don't know by you guys, I genuinely feel sorry for each
2:01:09
and every one of them. I get shot down because I know
2:01:12
by this point they felt what's at stake.
2:01:14
A last ditch last effort, backs against the wall mission is is
2:01:18
because if it fails, everybody said so when they get shot down.
2:01:22
Oh, I'm just don't know who that guy is but feel good at from.
2:01:24
I wanted him to get out. And the bit that cements its
2:01:28
genius for me each and every time.
2:01:30
You always, always, always forget that Han's going to come
2:01:33
back and save the day. Yeah, you do.
2:01:35
You are so. Caught up with Luke, you're in
2:01:37
that cockpit with him. You bite your nail on the edge
2:01:40
of your seat. Veda's got him in the sight.
2:01:42
Not once have you thought of Han, despite the fact the last
2:01:44
time you see him, it's blatant. He said that he's going to come
2:01:47
back in some way. Yeah.
2:01:48
And then when he does, I mean, is there a better punch the air
2:01:50
moment than that? Oh, definitely not.
2:01:53
Definitely. Not.
2:01:54
It's just incredible. Yeah, I know there's a big
2:01:58
influence from World War 2 movies there as well.
2:02:00
Like the damn Bus doesn't Battle of Britain.
2:02:02
I know that Lucas had ILM watch those movies to see how the air
2:02:05
battles were cut together and they basically copied them
2:02:08
sometimes shot for shot. But I agree.
2:02:10
I love how he gives it its own little story and its own little
2:02:12
narrative that he sets up in that mission briefing.
2:02:15
And then we know what's going on.
2:02:16
It's pretty smart. And it's not just attack the
2:02:18
Death Star, it's you've got to get down this trench.
2:02:20
They're going to be chasing you. The point of view shot from the
2:02:22
TIE fight is the chasing the X wings.
2:02:24
They're fantastic as well. Yeah.
2:02:26
Yeah. Yeah, it's all the visuals that
2:02:28
are used that lended themselves to that tension, and they'll
2:02:31
lend themselves to that build. It's that clock counting down.
2:02:34
Yeah, they don't look like 70s graphics.
2:02:36
They look like the from Star Wars.
2:02:37
You know, they're completely of their own look and their own
2:02:40
identity, really. It's unrecognizable even down
2:02:43
to, you know, the computer readouts, the X wings still
2:02:45
recognizable. There's no stone left unturned
2:02:47
with the details. But if this sequence didn't end
2:02:50
the film, I honestly don't think it would have been the success
2:02:53
that it is. You need this moment.
2:02:55
This is basically everything you've been waiting for for an
2:02:58
hour and a half an hour and 40 minutes.
2:03:00
And it does not disappoint on any level.
2:03:02
You know, when they're like attack formations were going in
2:03:05
and then the X wings turn and then the score ramps up.
2:03:08
But it really works for me. I love that end.
2:03:10
And when that blows up, man, it's just fucking Christmas Day.
2:03:12
Oh, it's great, Yeah. Just the dialogue between the X
2:03:17
wing pilots, it's like it's ingrained in me brain like stay
2:03:20
on target, stay on. Target, I love it.
2:03:23
It's. All like Red 5 standing by.
2:03:24
Yeah, it's great. Red 3.
2:03:26
Standing by, it's got their own kind of language and it doesn't
2:03:28
sound cheesy at that point, it sounds like, right?
2:03:30
Well, this is what it actually sounds like.
2:03:32
What's better guys, X wing or Y wing?
2:03:35
X Wing. Every day.
2:03:36
Every day Y. Wing for you, is it?
2:03:38
No, it's an air. Wing, but I don't sound like a
2:03:40
tosser. I'm going to say Y Wing just
2:03:45
because I had it as a kid like the toy, right I.
2:03:47
Don't know if I prefer tie fighters either because they're
2:03:50
cool as fuck but I always thought they were called tie
2:03:53
fighters because of like the bow tie shape I think.
2:03:56
They are and they're sort of retro fitted it to mean
2:03:58
something, so the tie now stands for something Twin Ion.
2:04:01
Engine. That's what it stands for.
2:04:04
All right, nerd, what else am I doing here?
2:04:10
This has got to. Be like the 1st science fiction
2:04:12
film as well that actually captures speed and space, isn't
2:04:15
it? Like when you think of Space 12,
2:04:17
when you've seen for 2001, obviously incredible model work
2:04:20
and it's gone for that realism, But stuff like Forbidden Planet,
2:04:23
Earth versus the fine sources, all that 50 stuff, none of them
2:04:26
got the sense of speed and space.
2:04:28
And this one, it captures that velocity like like an absolute
2:04:32
rocket. Yeah, it's the whole.
2:04:33
Thing, it's the editing, it's the camera work, it's the sound
2:04:36
effects. It all works together.
2:04:38
It feels like they're going at some speed down that trench,
2:04:40
isn't it? Yeah.
2:04:41
Yeah. I love the scream of the TIE
2:04:43
fighters as well. That's one of the favorite sound
2:04:45
effects in there. Absolutely great.
2:04:46
It's terrifying. And I think the sound design on
2:04:48
this especially is incredible. Have you seen footage of
2:04:51
audience reactions to the Death Star blowing up in 1977, where
2:04:55
there's like huge chairs and rounds of applause?
2:04:58
Have you not? What?
2:05:47
I'll be. Furious to be.
2:05:52
Also we. Have to mention the final scene,
2:05:54
the medal ceremony where Leah gives medals to Luke and Han but
2:05:57
not Chewy. What do you think of Chewy being
2:05:59
left out? She couldn't reach.
2:06:02
She is quite small. To be fair.
2:06:05
Yeah, that always kind of sucks a little bit, but I don't think
2:06:08
he wondered one. He probably just went Now I'm
2:06:09
all right. Just wanted to dog biscuit
2:06:13
instead. So we've reached the end of the
2:06:16
movie, the Death Star is destroyed and discovers some
2:06:19
things are more important than rewards, and Luke is on his way
2:06:22
to becoming a Jedi. The climax of Star Wars called
2:06:25
cinematic meltdowns in 1977, and it still I think holds up really
2:06:29
well today without a shot. Of a doubt, easily.
2:06:35
Reception and awards. Star Wars released on May 25th,
2:06:40
1977 and was like a bomb going off in terms of not just
2:06:44
Hollywood but popular culture. At first, though, it wasn't
2:06:48
plain sailing. When 20th century folks tried to
2:06:52
distribute the movie, only 32 theaters in the US agreed to
2:06:55
show it. So Fox said that any cinema that
2:06:58
refused to show Star Wars would not be given the rights to
2:07:00
screen The Other Side of Midnight.
2:07:02
A World War Two love story that was used to release on The Other
2:07:06
Side of Midnight ended up taking about 5% of what Star Wars did,
2:07:09
of course. So 30. 2 theaters took Star Wars
2:07:12
initially, but by late summer it was playing in 1098 theaters
2:07:16
across the US, which was an astronomical figure about then.
2:07:20
To give some context, Jaws broke the record by a long way in
2:07:22
1975, and that was in 400 theaters.
2:07:26
So those two films changed Hollywood completely and
2:07:29
overnight, basically, yeah. On a budget of $11 million, Star
2:07:33
Wars grows $530 million on its initial release, toppling Jaws
2:07:37
as the all time #1. And.
2:07:40
Today it has taken $792,000,000 in total at the box office.
2:07:45
It's still the second most attended movie of all time.
2:07:48
In terms of how many tickets it sold, it sold 178,000,000
2:07:52
tickets. Do you know what number one is?
2:07:55
It's gone with the wind, Of course it is.
2:07:57
Of course Matt knows it. Just let you have that man.
2:08:02
You've Gone With the Wind sold 202 million tickets.
2:08:04
So to give you an idea of how big that is, Avengers End Game,
2:08:07
which is now the highest grossing film ever, came out in
2:08:10
2019 and sold 93,000,000 tickets.
2:08:13
So half the amount Star Wars did.
2:08:15
Wow. Yeah.
2:08:16
So around the time Saw was released, Francis Ford Copley,
2:08:20
he's in the middle of making Apocalypse Now, having a
2:08:22
meltdown in the Philippines, everything going wrong that
2:08:25
could possibly go wrong. So he sent a telegram to Lucas
2:08:28
sitting at a hotel wherever he was at the time, asking for
2:08:30
funding to finish off Apocalypse Now.
2:08:32
Because obviously Lucas was absolutely rolling in it by this
2:08:36
part. All about the money.
2:08:38
Copla. He is.
2:08:39
Like Han Solo, he is. Yeah.
2:08:41
Yeah. Full circle we mentioned.
2:08:45
Earlier about the test screening of Star Wars where Lucas played
2:08:47
it for some film maker friends and also 20th Century Fox
2:08:50
executives After that screening, well, Spielberg knows a hit when
2:08:54
he sees one and said it's going to be the biggest movie of all
2:08:57
time. Alan Ladd.
2:08:59
The head of Fox loved it and said to Lucas, finally, I know
2:09:03
what you've been talking about for five years.
2:09:06
And there was an executive at Fox called Gareth Wiggin who was
2:09:09
so blown away by Star Wars that he cried during the screening
2:09:13
and told Lucas, this is the greatest movie I've ever seen.
2:09:16
And when Wigan got home, he gathered his family around the
2:09:19
kitchen table and said I want you to remember this day because
2:09:22
I just had one of the greatest experiences of my life.
2:09:27
And it wasn't the birth of any of his children that he had
2:09:29
around the table. Exactly.
2:09:34
Yeah, that's what I. Do every time I come back from
2:09:36
the cinema to be honest. As for the.
2:09:45
Critics mostly positive reactions there to Roger Ebert
2:09:48
gave Star Wars four to four. He called it an out of body
2:09:51
experience and said Lucas decision to set pure
2:09:54
storytelling narrative in outer space is inspired.
2:09:57
Yeah. Pauline.
2:09:58
Kael, do you think Pauline like this?
2:10:01
No, she's. Like anything, hates her own
2:10:02
man. Well, she hates Star.
2:10:06
Wars as well, she said There's no breather in the picture, no
2:10:11
lyricism and no emotional grip. It's like taking a pack of kids
2:10:14
to the circus. Oh God.
2:10:19
Time magazine called it exhilarating and unlike anything
2:10:23
we've witnessed before. And they named it their movie of
2:10:25
the year. Lovely.
2:10:27
More. On us, yeah.
2:10:29
But a few critics. Found a fault in the lack of
2:10:31
representation of ethnic minorities in the film.
2:10:34
A writer for a new journal and guide called it one of the most
2:10:37
racist movies ever produced. Really.
2:10:40
Yeah. Their reasoning was the force of
2:10:43
evil is dressed all in black and has the voice of a black man,
2:10:47
Lucas said. That was a one criticism that
2:10:49
really heard him. What do you think of that as a
2:10:51
criticism? I mean, it's an easy one to do,
2:10:54
isn't it? It's like, you can criticize
2:10:56
that, but I think it's a sci-fi film.
2:11:00
It's not trying to say anything else.
2:11:01
So if it was trying to have a social commentary, like we said
2:11:04
earlier on, if it was trying to explain what was going on in the
2:11:06
world and that was reflected in this one, it's not trying to do
2:11:09
that at all on any of the themes.
2:11:10
So why should you have to pick up on that and make a negative
2:11:12
out of that? Yeah.
2:11:13
Anything. Veda's dressed in black and look
2:11:15
and Leah dressed in white because, like, light and dark.
2:11:17
Isn't it? Good and evil?
2:11:18
Really simple, yeah? I think it's just very typical
2:11:22
of the time, though, when, unfortunately, you just wouldn't
2:11:25
get many black actors in roles. So it's certainly not going to
2:11:29
be the only film of that time to have, you know, an exclusively
2:11:31
white cast. I mean, it does stand out that
2:11:33
even all the extras are white. But again, it's just indicative
2:11:37
of the time, indicative of the industry and how difficult it
2:11:39
was for minorities to get any kind of representation.
2:11:42
So it's certainly not a overt move by Lucas by any such
2:11:47
imagination. Well, the day of Star Wars still
2:11:50
fails. Really well.
2:11:51
It has 92% of the Rotten Tomatoes and their summary calls
2:11:54
it a legendary, expansive, and ambitious movie.
2:11:58
George Lucas opened our eyes to the possibilities of blockbuster
2:12:01
film making and things have never been the same since.
2:12:04
Yep. True.
2:12:05
And. IMDb Star Wars has a score of
2:12:07
8.6 out of 10, which puts the 29th on the all time movie list.
2:12:12
And it did amazingly well The Oscars as well.
2:12:14
It won seven Best Phil Merding for Marshall Lucas, Paul Hirsch
2:12:18
and Richard Chew. Best original score for John
2:12:21
Williams, Best production design for John Barry, Norman Reynolds,
2:12:24
Leslie Dilly and Roger Christian.
2:12:26
Best costume design for John Morlow, Best sound mixing for
2:12:30
Don McDougal, Ray W, Bob Minkler and Derek Ball, Best visual
2:12:33
effects for ILM And a special achievement award was given to
2:12:36
Ben Bird for sound effects. Yeah, and they received 4 Oscar
2:12:40
nominations which were Best Pitcher, Best Director, Best
2:12:43
Original Screenplay and Best Supporting Actor for Alec
2:12:45
Guinness. Was it fairly by the Academy do
2:12:48
you think? I think so.
2:12:50
That's loads of nominations. Yeah, it's tread better than
2:12:53
Zodiac was. So a huge film might release as
2:13:00
big as anything before since. And as we can see from some of
2:13:03
those stats, no surprise that Star Wars had the impact on
2:13:05
influence they had. I don't think definitely.
2:13:08
Not but in every marketing piece of media afterwards, you'll
2:13:11
never ever see, you know, multi award-winning Oscar and it's not
2:13:16
on the posters. It wasn't necessary.
2:13:17
It was popular without that. So it didn't even need that.
2:13:20
That's how popular it was. Sequels.
2:13:25
And influence. It's as big as this.
2:13:30
Don't come and go without having an impact or influence and Star
2:13:33
Wars is no exception. Something that always surprises
2:13:36
me actually is just how many other big name directors say
2:13:39
that Star Wars was the movie that made them want to become
2:13:42
film makers. It's a quote from lots of famous
2:13:45
film makers out there, but to mention just a few of them,
2:13:48
Peter Jackson said the experience I had as a 16 year
2:13:51
old in New Zealand seeing Star Wars for the first time changed
2:13:54
my life forever. Ridley Scott said it was
2:13:57
Seminole. After seeing Star Wars, I
2:13:59
canceled the film I was making next and went after Alien,
2:14:02
which, as you can tell, it's hugely influenced by George,
2:14:06
right? Gaymor Del Toro said.
2:14:08
I stayed in the cinema all day and watched it five or six
2:14:11
times. George created something unique
2:14:13
in film history, Yeah, Christopher Nolan said.
2:14:17
I saw it in 1977 and it was a mind blowing experience and
2:14:21
every film I make I want to create that same experience for
2:14:24
the audience. Yeah, every birthday.
2:14:26
Party I went to for two years. You went to see Star Wars.
2:14:31
I mean, Christopher Nolan was a child at that point.
2:14:32
I should add he wasn't like 21. And James Cameron said when I
2:14:40
bought my ticket for Star Wars in 1977, I was a 22 year old
2:14:43
truck driver. Within one hour of staying in
2:14:46
the movie, I was an unemployed filmmaker.
2:14:49
That's a great. One.
2:14:51
So no Star Wars, no Lord of the Rings, no Terminator, no Alien
2:14:54
or Aliens, no Blade Runner, no Northern films, essentially.
2:14:58
There you go. And also in terms of influence,
2:15:01
there's another industry that Star Wars had an even bigger
2:15:04
impact on than the movie industry.
2:15:05
Do you know what I'm talking about?
2:15:08
Merchandise. Toys.
2:15:10
The toys. Yeah, of course.
2:15:12
As we. Mentioned at the top, Lucas cut
2:15:13
a deal with Fox that gave him full rights over the
2:15:15
merchandising of Star Wars. Movie merchandise at the time
2:15:18
was small fry, but Star Wars changed all of that,
2:15:22
specifically around the Kenner action figure toy line that was
2:15:24
released after the film. To give you another start, the
2:15:28
Star Wars movies today have grossed about $10 billion at the
2:15:31
box office. When you're throwing all the
2:15:32
merchandise, it's made about $40 billion.
2:15:36
Amazing. Which is.
2:15:37
Ridiculous. Yeah.
2:15:40
And this leads us very nicely into a question from one of our
2:15:43
pedrons from Patreon, Jamie Russell.
2:15:46
Hello, Jamie. Hello, Jamie, man.
2:15:48
Hello. Jamie.
2:15:50
So. Jamie asks.
2:15:51
My mother gave all of my Star Wars toys away to charity when I
2:15:54
moved out of the house. Exactly.
2:15:57
Yeah, obviously I'm still getting over that.
2:16:01
My favorites being the Millennium Falcon and Lucas X
2:16:03
Wing. What is your favorite piece of
2:16:05
Star Wars memorabilia? He's taking two of the best ones
2:16:08
there, honey. I.
2:16:13
Had a speed a bike from Return to Jedi.
2:16:16
Lovely and pre you press. The back and it all explodes.
2:16:18
Yeah, great. Yeah.
2:16:20
That was pretty favorite. That was fucking ace, Yeah.
2:16:24
Well, I can. Empathize here with Jamie
2:16:25
because when I was a kid, my brother's a few years older than
2:16:28
me and he had loads of Star Wars toys.
2:16:29
Then I had loads as well. So we had a lot between US and
2:16:32
my mother gave them all away. So now all I've got left is an
2:16:36
adat from Empire and I've got it on display in the living room.
2:16:40
So to answer Jamie's question, I would say the address, it's
2:16:43
great. It's about 25 inches high.
2:16:45
He can put action figures in the cargo bit and in the head bit as
2:16:48
well, and he control its head and you can move it and fire its
2:16:51
blasters and stuff. I mean, none of that works now,
2:16:54
obviously. And I found no action figures
2:16:56
did that ever. Work, yeah.
2:16:59
You did? Yeah, it did.
2:17:00
Used to work. Yeah.
2:17:00
They would light up and they would like, fire like the proper
2:17:02
guns were class. Yeah.
2:17:05
Matt, what about you? Yeah, like.
2:17:07
You guys had a lot of the figures that most of them I kind
2:17:10
of remember being passed down to me from like all the siblings
2:17:12
and other members of the family. But I'll go for the wiring
2:17:15
because I was the only craft I had and I had not to that you
2:17:19
could fit in. I never had a Luke though, for
2:17:20
some reason. All right.
2:17:22
So I just used to put Hannah in there instead, basically make me
2:17:25
on story up. So yeah, I'll go for that.
2:17:28
And that's why in the film, I always like the Y wings more
2:17:32
than the X wings, just because I have that association.
2:17:35
So Star. Wars change the types of film
2:17:37
studios made, how they distributed them, and by making
2:17:40
merchandise so lucrative it changed the movie business
2:17:43
model. I think it's beyond question
2:17:45
that Star Wars had a big impact and was massively influential.
2:17:48
The question is though, did it change things for better or for
2:17:51
worse? In lots of ways, you'd have to
2:17:55
say it for the worse. And the one that just comes to
2:17:59
mind is that I don't think you can talk about Star Wars without
2:18:02
talking about the fandom that comes with it.
2:18:04
And the important thing is a lot of that fandom, especially
2:18:07
online fandom now, is like so toxic.
2:18:11
And particularly when I'm thinking about the sequels in
2:18:14
the Disney films, where you can't even mention them without
2:18:18
being attacked by hundreds and hundreds, it seems like the
2:18:21
people on Instagram or Twitter. Oh yeah, who don't like them but
2:18:26
also don't like the fact that you have a different opinion
2:18:28
with them. I think probably that's because
2:18:30
Star Wars was such a massive thing.
2:18:32
I think there's too many people have like bound up their own
2:18:35
identity with these films. So they take any kind of
2:18:37
deviation from that as a personal attack.
2:18:41
And it's just not a healthy outlook.
2:18:43
And it gets to the point where people like Kelly Marie Tran,
2:18:46
who played roles in the the sequels, you know, all she ever
2:18:49
did was take a role in a film and perform to the best of her
2:18:52
ability. But because that certain amount
2:18:54
of toxicity within fandom, didn't like those films, didn't
2:18:58
like her, she got so much like racist abuse that's just
2:19:01
basically being forced off social media and isn't able to
2:19:04
engage with the fans who aren't like that.
2:19:06
And I'm sure they are the majority, but that very, very
2:19:09
kind of vocal, very toxic minority just really makes it.
2:19:12
It makes it quite sad that Star Wars can't be a thing that you
2:19:15
can discuss wholeheartedly. There's just such a large
2:19:19
section. Just step over the boundary each
2:19:22
and every time. You're right, I mean.
2:19:23
You've got to be worried now, Matt, about us releasing.
2:19:25
This changed on Twitter. Unfortunately.
2:19:31
In terms of Hollywood, I think it probably has changed things
2:19:34
for the worse. Before Star Wars and Jaws, the
2:19:36
movies that took the most money with things like The Godfather
2:19:40
and The Exorcist filmed with lots of artistry.
2:19:42
After Star Wars, that stopped pretty quickly because I think
2:19:45
studios realized that huge spectacle makes money.
2:19:48
But I don't think that's really necessarily Star Wars or George
2:19:52
Lucas's fault. Obviously after the runaway
2:19:54
success of Star Wars as a studio was one of the cash in that was
2:19:57
always going to happen and for me they had two options.
2:20:00
Either they could have done what Lucas did and create something
2:20:03
unique and ambitious, push boundaries, create something
2:20:05
extraordinary that people haven't seen before and that
2:20:07
they'll want to see because of that.
2:20:09
Or they could take Star Wars as a template, more or less
2:20:12
replicate it, and have people go, oh, that looks a bit like
2:20:14
Star Wars. I'll go and see that.
2:20:16
They'll obviously thought, well, option two is easier than option
2:20:19
one, so let's just do that. I mean, like we've said, stuff
2:20:22
like Alien, Terminator, Blade Runner, Christopher Nolan movies
2:20:25
wouldn't exist without Star Wars, but unfortunately those
2:20:28
movies are far outweighed by the huge spectacle blockbusters with
2:20:31
little substance we often get. Transformers, for example, is a
2:20:35
direct result of the success of Star Wars.
2:20:37
So artistically, I do think Hollywood would probably be in a
2:20:40
better place had Star Wars not been such a big hit.
2:20:44
Yeah, I've got to agree. I think that it's influence, it
2:20:47
is a very positive film. And I think the point is like
2:20:50
touching on what both you guys are saying.
2:20:52
I mean, the influence is when it's done right and you get the
2:20:55
right things from it and you use it as an inspiration.
2:20:58
And you take that inspiration and the stories behind it and
2:21:01
the drive that Lucas had and the originality of it.
2:21:03
And if you do that and you create your own thing from it
2:21:06
and use it as inspiration, and that's fine.
2:21:07
But it's the amount of people who ripped it off and the amount
2:21:10
of times this is just trying to be copied and bettered every
2:21:13
time you watch Star Wars. I don't know if you guys feel
2:21:15
the same, but I feel like it's just my film.
2:21:18
Even if I'm watching it with the people, I'm thinking like
2:21:20
they're not getting enough from this that I'm getting from it.
2:21:22
It feels like a really personal experience every time I watch it
2:21:25
because I watched it so young. And I think it it's what pulled
2:21:27
us into cinema. And I think people are attached
2:21:29
to it emotionally. And when you start changing that
2:21:33
whole landscape, it does have that impact at both positive and
2:21:38
negative, really. But it's testament to it.
2:21:40
Every single phenomenon, everything that's so popular is
2:21:43
going to have ups and downs and positives and negatives.
2:21:45
But yeah, I do agree, I think the negatives do slightly
2:21:48
outweigh the positives here. It's as big as.
2:21:50
Star Wars don't come and go without having an impact or
2:21:52
influence, and they don't come and go without sequels being
2:21:55
made. Since the first film we've been
2:21:57
talking about, there have been a further 10 Star Wars movies
2:22:00
released. I had a dream that Disney asked
2:22:03
us all the right movies to write the new Star Wars trilogy.
2:22:06
The next one. We'd sought.
2:22:08
Them right out, I think it's fair to see the impact of Star
2:22:12
Wars goes beyond just making lots of money and influencing
2:22:15
studios to make more movies that are the same.
2:22:17
For some people that's been a part of their lives and for some
2:22:20
huge film makers, it was the movies that ignited their
2:22:22
passion for filmmaking. The film since the originals are
2:22:25
not as good for us. But Disney, if you're listening,
2:22:29
pick up the phone. Hit us.
2:22:31
Up. Yeah, we'll sort it.
2:22:35
All the right. Movies Ranking.
2:22:39
Star Wars, then we're at the end.
2:22:43
Have we enjoyed talking about it?
2:22:44
Yeah. Yeah, it's been.
2:22:46
Great, I have as. Well, and now is the time to
2:22:48
give it the all the right movies ranking treatment.
2:22:51
So out of 10 Westie, what would you rate Star Wars?
2:22:54
It's such a. Wonderful thing for me to
2:22:57
revisit this and I like to wait a little bit and come back to
2:23:00
where I don't like to kind of nail it.
2:23:02
Like my kids have seen it and they hammered it as much as I
2:23:04
hammered it when I was their age, so they got it.
2:23:07
They don't say oh, this is old fashioned or this is too old,
2:23:10
which I get from a lot of things, but I don't get that
2:23:12
from Star Wars because this film, and I'm just talking about
2:23:15
A New Hope era, I'm not talking about the whole thing, I'm
2:23:17
talking about this one film. It's very special for me.
2:23:20
I feel like a kid when I watch it every single time.
2:23:23
I think it's an absolute miracle that it exists.
2:23:26
I think it's a it's a miracle. It was such a big hit.
2:23:28
I'm so pleased it was. I'm so pleased it does exist.
2:23:31
It is one of me favourites and I still love it as much now as
2:23:34
when I first saw it. So I cannot say anything else
2:23:38
but a 10 because of what it is and it's legacy and how
2:23:41
important it is to cinema and what it's done and how many
2:23:44
people it's influenced. Yep, 10.
2:23:47
Big start for me. It's not just one of the
2:23:49
defining films of the last 50 years, it's one of the defining
2:23:52
pieces of popular culture of the last 50 years.
2:23:55
Those first three films, there's nothing else quite like them.
2:23:58
Lots of imitators of course, but I don't think anything comes
2:24:00
really close. I don't watch Star Wars as much
2:24:03
as I used to, but when I re watch it do this episode I loved
2:24:06
it. What I call it one of the
2:24:08
greatest pieces of art in movies?
2:24:10
Probably not. But what I call it one of the
2:24:12
greatest achievements in movies? Yes I would, for it's mind
2:24:17
boggling creative genius from many people involved, and for
2:24:20
its enormous impact and influence.
2:24:22
And for the six year old who was me, who was utterly blown away
2:24:26
by it, I can't give it any less than A10.
2:24:28
Beautiful and Matt Journal of the Wheels.
2:24:34
Well, if they've kept that title.
2:24:37
It's. Still incredibly fun, I would
2:24:40
say. I don't think I've got the
2:24:43
nostalgic love for that you to do.
2:24:45
I think as a kid, I was always, always far more into the indie
2:24:48
trilogy than it was into the Star Wars trilogy as a whole,
2:24:52
but still so influential, so incredibly entertaining.
2:24:56
And it does that thing that I really, really love about films
2:24:58
where you could make a list of all these things that could have
2:25:01
gone wrong and probably should have gone wrong and shouldn't
2:25:03
work. And yet it does work.
2:25:05
It works like an absolute beauty in setting up that universe and
2:25:08
putting those characters in that universe, giving you concepts
2:25:12
that you just want to find more and more about.
2:25:14
And then ending with just one of the finest endings I've still
2:25:17
ever seen. But I'll still have little
2:25:20
niggles with it. I've mentioned with the edit in
2:25:23
some of the dialogue's not great.
2:25:25
And when it comes to Star Wars, there was better to come.
2:25:28
So it's going to be a nine from me, no?
2:25:36
So the big. Score.
2:25:37
So the big score. And as we always do, we also
2:25:40
asked our Twitter followers to vote some of their comments on
2:25:43
Star Wars. Matt Loom at Matt Loom, who's
2:25:46
one of our paid runs. Hello Matt.
2:25:48
Hello, Matt. Hello.
2:25:50
I'm giving it a nine, but I think much of that is based on
2:25:52
nostalgia as I must have watched it most weekends growing up.
2:25:56
The scene where they're all in the garbage sewer room really
2:25:59
stuck with me and it's aged brilliantly.
2:26:01
My 10 year old boy loves it now. Empire Strikes Back is my
2:26:05
favorite though. Yeah, and Steph at Steph under
2:26:08
score, Hamilton said. When it came out, I was
2:26:11
absolutely awestruck. So it's a 10.
2:26:13
The shock and awe of the effects have diminished now though.
2:26:16
I'd imagine seeing it for the first time now would be a good
2:26:18
experience, but not as shocking as 1977.
2:26:22
I think that's probably fair. I think that's fair.
2:26:24
But if you watch this for the first time now on an IMAX, yeah,
2:26:29
take your fucking skin off. And to play devil's advocate,
2:26:32
our very own Pi is not such a big fan as we are.
2:26:35
And he said. I don't get it.
2:26:37
Never have, really. I don't mind Empire Strikes
2:26:40
Back, but this one is not that one.
2:26:43
I gave it A7 as I can't really remember it, but what I do
2:26:46
remember wasn't memorable enough.
2:26:48
Now do excuse me while I press on with today's third viewing of
2:26:51
The Running Man 1987. If you can't remember it.
2:26:55
Then you can't comment on it. I don't agree with that.
2:27:00
Like any. Film, I mean, it's not for
2:27:01
everyone. I think if it doesn't click with
2:27:03
you, you're probably sort of thinking what's all the fuss
2:27:05
about? If it does click with you and
2:27:07
you buy into that world, it just blows your head off.
2:27:10
Yeah. Rewards.
2:27:11
You in leaps and bounds and. Our Twitter followers ranked
2:27:14
Star Wars as nine out of 10, so that gives Star Wars 38 out of
2:27:19
40 in total. You can check our website for
2:27:21
the full ranking table. So that's it on Star Wars.
2:27:25
I hope everyone's enjoyed listening to us talk as much as
2:27:27
we have talking. But I mean, we're doing Empire
2:27:30
at some point, right? I hope so.
2:27:32
Yeah, got to be. Got to be the look and.
2:27:34
Pay. I'll have something to say about
2:27:35
that, I think. I think that's it.
2:27:37
We've enjoyed with time. Now we've got to go back.
2:27:40
Big grown-ups. If you did like it, if you could
2:27:44
please share us on your social media platforms, Twitter and
2:27:47
Instagram, then that will be brilliant.
2:27:48
I'm much appreciated. And for access to those
2:27:51
exclusive podcasts and our full episode archive, please visit
2:27:55
patreon.com/all the Right Movies.
2:27:59
And Speaking of Patriot, on a special mention for our
2:28:01
directors chair level patrons who are Adam Cowie, Adam Yates,
2:28:05
Andrea Barker, Syed Adam Randall, Damian Lennox, Daniel
2:28:09
Lawson, Gary W Graham, Shader, Jamie Russell, Just your Kenny
2:28:12
Morrison, Matlum and Robert Shearer.
2:28:15
Thanks, everybody. Yeah, thanks.
2:28:17
So much guys. Legends.
2:28:18
Guys, thank you. You can also.
2:28:20
Follow us on social media where we have lots of great movie
2:28:23
content to take a look at. On Twitter we are at Wright
2:28:26
Under Score Movies. On Instagram we are at all the
2:28:29
Under Score Right Movies and our website is all the right
2:28:32
movies.com. Coming up next.
2:28:35
Time it's all playing. No work as Westie, Martin, Luke
2:28:38
bring you another legendary in Seminole classic in Stanley
2:28:41
Kubrick's The Shining. Oh.
2:28:44
You don't want. To miss that one, Westie has
2:28:47
some outrageous opinions on the Apollo moon landing.
2:28:54
I'm. Researching it now, it's going
2:28:55
to take us about three months. We're all off.
2:28:59
Now to see if we can sell our incomprehensible screenplay to
2:29:01
Disney for $4 billion. Don't worry, I'm not going to
2:29:06
say May the Force be with you. I can't pull that off.
2:29:08
So be well, everyone, and we'll see you next time.
2:29:11
May the Force. Be with you.
2:29:13
Yeah. Thanks guys.
2:29:14
Yeah, cheers. Guys.