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Adventure Has No Expiry Date | Midlife Travel & Reinvention · The Midlife Rebel Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: I find, you know, I don't know if people, when they're in their 20s and they meet these people, I don't know that they get it.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're in your 50s and you're meeting these legends in their 70s and 80s, it's so important to see that it doesn't stop, you know, and that if you look after your body and your mind, these are things that you can do well into older age.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: And these are fun people.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've always loved, you know, anyone that's older than me anyway.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: But um just, you know, the conversations and the the life lessons and the wisdom.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love meeting people like this on the road, and I think it's really, really important.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Midlife Rebel Podcast.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's time to rewrite the midlife story for women who refuse to be put in a box.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe midlife isn't a crisis.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's an awakening.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: All right, where are we gonna go on this conversation?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a few notes.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of um like in your original email, which was gosh, it was a few months ago, wasn't it?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we uh you sort of mentioned, you know, midlife reinvention, um change in the status quo of what midlife can look like with travel and adventure.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously keen to talk about your book and and yeah some of that.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you reckon?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm I'm I can go anywhere you want.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Is I've forgotten.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is that the um is the theme of your podcast about midlife transitions?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yes, I can talk about that.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was 48, I took a year off uh plus three years ago now to like travel.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, we can talk about things like that.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think for me, I mean, my main thing is always about um, well, this is nothing to do with midlife, but travel fatigue, travel ego, travel purpose, and all of that.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: However, in the last little while, I seem to end up traveling with everyone who's like in their 70s and 80s, and um, they're just such legends, and I think it's such an important um message for people because you know, a lot of people feel like I I work with a woman who's like 40, I'm 51, almost 52, and she's always like, I have 10 years left.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, What are you talking about?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I have 10 years left while my body will still allow me to do things, and it's like, oh my god.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's kind of what this podcast is about.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hang on a minute, let's let's talk about what actually happens and and not sort of you know resign ourselves to the fact that game over after 40, 45.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's actually really silly.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I yeah, I've been, I mean, last year I was hiking in Italy with um all these people.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was one of the youngest, and I can tell you I was the last person down the hill every day.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and I'm in really good shape, but I'm I don't like going downhill.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uphill I was first, downhill I was last.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: And like they were they were less worried about their knees than I was.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm there's a million stories like that out there that I have about older people traveling, which I love.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think it's also like, I don't know, I'm in a I'm in actually you've caught me in a bit of a transition because my job is about to fold.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a really interesting time where you're you, I feel like it's a window for me to be like, okay, is this my moment to do something totally different and to build a life maybe that I want and escape the golden handcuffs?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a very interesting phase, you know, because like in your 50s, this is kind of the golden ticket to like say, here we are, let's go.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's a time when you really know actually who you are.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I've for me, I always have felt like as I get older, actually I feel younger, like in my spirit, because you know, there's we care less about certain things and there's a certain liberation.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: So um that that's sort of where I'm at.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that's helpful at all.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh yeah, it's it is an interesting time.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: What so what is your um do you have a day job?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just kind of had this picture of you just being uh an ad an adventurer and the f a full-time adventurer.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: I wish if I could find out how to get paid for that, yes.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um no, I have a very stable, nine boring nine to five job at a university, and I've been here for 11 years.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: I've used it as a vehicle to like travel, to write books.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: I wrote a book, obviously, to do a podcast.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: I had my well, mine started as a radio show.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: So um, so yeah, I've never been in love with my jobs.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: I've always just used them as a vehicle to do other things, and then they let me like take a year off a few years ago and do that, do my like a year of traveling.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: But um, but yeah, that's all ending, and and that's the thing.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, is this now the opportunity to like you know work virtually and just live wherever I want and sort of embrace that life?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: So um maybe your image of me will come true.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever thought of like creating your own travel company, like and taking people on at adventures?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people say that to me, but um I've Oh, the thing is though, um, is that I have done so many group trips that I see the hell that's yes.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't be organisers, yeah, fair enough.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like you have to solve really dumb problems 24 hours a day.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've heard of people that have come on trips without any money or don't realize what they've signed up.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't have the patience for that nonsense.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fair enough.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Fair enough.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: My dad, my my dad, speaking of older people, my dad um he's in his early 70s, mid-70s, and he travels a bit.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: But him um him and my stepmum, they go on some group trips, you know, like to Europe on the train to different countries.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the stories they come up with, like that they might be, I don't know, maybe they're some of the people who complain about stuff.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: But that you know, that they didn't know what train to get on, and they got on the wrong train, and that their meal was like one lettuce leaf, and you know, the people in the hotel didn't know what they were doing and weren't expecting that many people to arrive.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm sure that you've seen plenty of that.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of curious about your journey less than you know, quote unquote journey as a traveller, because it's not something that you've just started doing as a woman in midlife, it's something that you've always been passionate and interested in, isn't it?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it and the book that you've written is based on something that happened a few years ago or one of one of your 15 years ago.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so should do you want to kick us off with with I don't know, back then and how that's all evolved in the last fifty how many years?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Fifteen?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Ten fifteen.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't know, I think it's longer than that, but I'll think yeah, sure.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: We'll go I can use it now.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what was yeah, so what was um I guess like you've always had the travel bug.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'd say this is how it started, and you might get a kick out of this because you live in Australia.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: So basically in 1981, I was seven, so like there's my age for you.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: And the same age.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's a great age.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so my dad was a teacher, he uh taught physed and math, and we lived in a small town outside of Toronto in Canada, and he got accepted to do a teacher's exchange to Rolly Stone, which is in outside of Perth in Western Australia.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like we were from a small town.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: This was an even smaller small town, if you could even call it a town.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: So in 1981, it's very different, right?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: There's no internet.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: When you're away, you're away.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's a big trip in 1981.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: So we exchanged houses and they exchanged jobs, my dad and this other teacher, and we basically lived there uh for a year in a bush town.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: We took a bush path to get to school, and there was no helicopter parenting.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: So we were walking through a pretty wild place to get to like a school in the middle of nowhere in the rainforest.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, so we had accents and the like.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it was funny because we cried when we knew we had to go to Australia.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the youngest of three, and then when we had to leave a year later, we cried because we didn't want to come back to Canada.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: So in that year, my dad uh really taught us that you know, there's life everywhere.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: And we rented a van and we traveled around Australia, we went to New Zealand, we went to Bali.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: There was nobody traveling in Bali at that time.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I would say that was a very good introduction to adventure at a young age.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think in high school, you know, I did the usual things.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, usual for some.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: I did an exchange to Belgium, and then in my 20s, I was moving around Canada a lot, pretty lost, and trying to find something that spoke to me.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then it was in my late 20s where I went randomly on a trip to Costa Rica, and then after that it was game over, and it was a part of my life for good after that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when you went to Costa Rica, did you were you like, this is it, this is what I want to do.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what kind of job I have, I just want to make enough money to travel.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: More or less.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, you figured me out really quickly.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yes, I have never been great at career choices.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: I have used all of them and I've had many different jobs as a vehicle to support things I was interested in.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that can be good and bad, but yes, definitely.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was all about going on trips.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, and I know like when you mentioned when we first logged on that you had been to Australia, obviously it wasn't just a holiday with your parents.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: You actually lived here for a year, so yeah, you don't need to come back necessarily.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: You've had your you've had your Aussie experience.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: You've got plenty of other places to go to.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um Australia is a very long way away, isn't it?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: I you know, as I do get older, that is one thing.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very hesitant now to do like super long haul flights.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't love flying the way that I used to.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like six hours is more than enough for me, and anything longer, it's challenging.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you feel the same.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: You're yeah, like your trips home must be ferocious.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's hideous.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it never gets any better.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you kind of always go, we're just gonna nail it, we're gonna do the whole thing in one go, we're not gonna stop on the way, you know.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to get it over and done with, and then we're like, maybe next time we'll stop halfway.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's it's like I I don't enjoy any part of it.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I used to love like just being at the airport.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: Now I do not love being at the airport.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's nothing about that part that is nice.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: You've obviously um learned an awful lot in the last how many years?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: 40, 45 traveling.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, yeah, totally.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: 45 years and like I guess from the time that you um went to Costa Rica, I'd love to know what happened there that made you was there anything like outstanding that happened that that would you made you think this is it?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's just if if this is something that's in your soul, I think you just feel alive in a way that you don't normally.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, I've talked about this before.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if this is your true authentic self that we discover traveling.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: I just love the freedom.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: I love not knowing people, you know, I like I like meeting new friendships and people along the way.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I love that feeling of the unknown, you know, there's nothing you can predict, and just all of it really resonated with me on that trip and just the wildness.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that trip was fun.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we were riding horses and jeeps and hiking active volcanoes and doing zip lines and all of that stuff, and it was just really fun, and also like partying into the wee hours of the morning on a beach at a disco and just like there was not one thing about it that was unpleasant.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I just it it was taking me back to when I first came to Australia and I I spent most of my time in Sydney, but I did do a like a travel up the east coast for a month or five weeks or something, and um a lot of that I was on my own, like I would join groups just like you were mentioning, and um, you know, go off in a van and do some horse riding, and but there were times when I was on my own, and although it was kind of like I was only 22, so it's quite you know young to be kind of hanging out on your own for periods of time.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, so I guess I wouldn't say that lonely was a word I would use, but it was different to not, you know, to be just depending on yourself, but at the same time, it's there's an element of real empowerment, isn't there?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: To know that you can even just get on a plane, get on a bus, read a timetable, meet new people, um, yeah, navigate something outside of your regular everyday.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's huge, and I totally relate.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: I when I'm completely alone on trips, it is lonely.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: I don't love it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: I uh I like going alone and meeting up with groups, but if I'm alone alone, I can only handle like about two weeks and then it's too much.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not, it's not my thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think that's what it is, you know, because a lot of people who don't travel assume that you're having one epiphany after another and one life-changing moment after another.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I really don't believe that that's true.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's what you are describing.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's you learn what you're made of.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: You learn you can survive, that you're resilient, that you know, you can go with the flow, what you're like in a crisis, what you're like when things don't work out.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's the big picture, I think, of what happens to you when you travel.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then that builds confidence and you take that with you.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, it's not easy.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody really wants to admit that or talk about it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: It is lonely, it is really challenging.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes, and I've had moments not too long ago where I'm like, why, why am I doing this?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why am I not at home watching Netflix?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Why am I here?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, by all accounts, like I had a quick look at your Instagram, and one of the one of the clips I think I saw on Instagram was you jumping off a very high something in a life vest into uh into some rapids.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I went so it's not just traveling, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: You are um adventuring, like serious bear grills kind of stuff.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, please I don't want him to hear that no.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um I do, I do.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: I love I love the adventurous stuff for sure.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not an adrenaline junkie, but I love adventure for sure.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to die doing any of these things.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not crazy that way.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, I I do really love like I don't really, you know, I I want to be entertained, I want to push myself, I want to see and do things.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun, it's exciting.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's scary.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes and sometimes some places where you're like, what the hell am I doing?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, many times, yes.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, so what are some of the some of the most um courageous things that you've done?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um everything I think requires a little bit of courage, but I uh I've done a couple horse trips that were one, you know, was scary.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like actually in Canada, it was in the Rocky Mountains.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I used to live there when I was 18.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: I moved to uh the mountains to Jasper, Alberta, which back in the day was really, really fun.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's like kind of what young people did.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: They moved to Jasper for Lake Louise, and um I stayed out there for way too long because I was having way too much fun.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: So a couple of years ago, I went back and did like a four, three or four-day horse trip, and um, it was terrifying, like just the terrain of the mountains, and that was really scary.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, in the book that we'll talk about the people you meet, we did um a couple of scary things in there, actually, many scary things.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: We did a three to four-day jungle trek that was full of leeches and bees, and just we didn't feel safe at all the whole time.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: And that's interesting because as somebody who does typically sign up for group things, there you are also paying for a level of safety, I think, you know, with certain companies.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: But this was a company that um it was a very independent operator, and uh we did not feel we were in good hands at all.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that is not fun when you're in the remote jungle of Lao um for days on end.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it was even as little, well, this isn't little, but they were like, don't bring any water, we'll supply all the water.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't bring and I drink tons of water and it was like 40 degree heat, and there was no not enough water, like it just all of it sucked badly, but oh always makes for a good story.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, there were leeches like everywhere crawling all over us all the time.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: So things like that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: We did also a night um in very rural China staying in uh this what is called a roundhouse or a Tulu.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: I've probably not said that properly, but that's with living with like hundreds of people from an ethnic minority community in a very, very sparse room with like some planks and straw and a weird blanket and a bucket and and a padlock and a light bulb.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: So um I have done a lot of weird things, and uh, as you get older, you're maybe more select more selective.
• 20:07
  unknown: Yes.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Have you um how do you so how have you selected the things that you've done?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they choose you, you know.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: I there are things I want to do, like I just did a hike in Italy in the Dolomites that was on my list, and um, so I find I like anyone, there are a few things, you know, on my um to-do list.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes you'll just wake up and like this happened to me with Jordan and it happened to me with Nepal.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: I had no um thought of either of those countries, they were not on my radar.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then one morning I woke up and I knew I had to do it, I had to go, and so I did.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it wasn't the next day, but it was in within the next few months or that year.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I really love that way to pick adventures as well.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: And with Nepal, of course, you know, I did some hiking, and that's always a thing I have to do now: hiking, cycling, paddling, something like that adventure part must be there.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, it's very interesting when you can have your journey changed a little bit.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I didn't see myself going to these countries, and then you just know that you have to, so that's fun.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was wondering whether um you've had any kind of spiritual uh experience when you've been traveling, or whether you've chosen to do.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I heard your uh um I saw one of the interviews you've done was with uh someone who does ayahuasca.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever done like have you ever had any spiritual experiences or um done anything like that?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me, a bit godfrog.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny the old ayahuasca.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: I've not done it yet.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: I've come close, but I'm a little bit terrified of it.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but people who've done it, have you done it?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't done it, and I'm the same.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I it's kind of like there's a curiosity, but that I don't like the idea of uh the purging bit.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, same.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: I also am not up for that.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, from any orifice, I don't want to do it.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I've also heard, you know, many people have said it is very life changing, and but there's certain things I don't know that I want to see in that experience.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how you go back in time and um I don't know if that's something I need to do.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I do have a friend who's done it like I would say.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Say maybe 40 times.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was like a once-in-a-lifetime thing.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: It would be for me.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so so it is really interesting.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I never say never, I'm not there yet, but yeah, I have it does cross my mind from time to time.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I would do it where there's I know places where there's like a doctor and a nurse, and I am not doing it in the wilds of wherever where they're going over your shoulder.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, thank you.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Fair enough.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what about the um any spiritual experiences?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had any places where you've been opened up to that?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: I would say for me, I get something, it's more landscapes.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, something will happen to me in that way.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh when I was in Jordan, we were in the Wadi Rum Desert, and it's a very beautiful place, the Wadi Rum Desert, and they've, you know, lots of things have happened there, movies, etc., but that's irrelevant.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a magical place.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it was towards late afternoon, and for some reason I kept getting drawn in by a certain part of like the view of what I was looking at.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was there's like a lot of mountains and dunes, and it's it's really stunning.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom had been really sick with Alzheimer's for many, many, many years, and I just knew that she was dying.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: I knew, I knew she was saying to me through this landscape, um, you uh you've got I'm gonna go, and it's okay.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: And and it was true.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: I made it home in time.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: I got home like a day or two later, and she died within an hour of me being home.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and I know I'm not trying to bring your podcast in.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, no, no.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: But but it was very much like a very spiritual moment for me in that desert.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I find it's yeah, sometimes I've had moments in the world where there's a geography or or any, I don't know, there's something about where you're at that the universe is sending you a very strong message.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I've had things like that happen to me many times.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's a beautiful thing, I think.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: So if I don't guess I don't need to do uh maybe I shouldn't do ayahuasca.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: If the world is speaking to me already, exactly.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's really interesting, you know, how the how being in nature, I think, changes you.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's something else I found that like on a hiking trip, I do believe that when you're outside for more than 24 hours, something changes in your body, your body chemistry.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's a very spiritual feeling as well when you're just in touch with nature and a very simple rhythm of life for a few days.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I've found coming home from that has been almost traumatic.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: I remember I was in Europe uh doing the Tour de Mont Blanc, which is uh an amazing hike, France, Italy, Switzerland.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I cried for a month when I came home from that trip because I feel like I was in shock.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like I went from just I just felt so free and alive and healthy, and just everything felt right in the mountains.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then you come back to the city.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was instantly on a streetcar and subways, and it was dirty.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like I mean, mentally, it's always hard for me to come home, but I also feel like my body was like, I do not like this, I do not want to be here, and like all these, it's just so interesting when you tune in to what your body is telling you about your environment.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's fascinating.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was gonna ask that was gonna be my next question.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you integrate?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've had well, my experience just coming to Australia, so I wasn't, you know, out back or anything, but like then I went back to the UK.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is back in my 20s, and I went back to the UK, and that in itself was a bit of a shock because nothing's changed.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like nothing's changed.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go to the I went to the local pub and saw some friends, and they're like, Oh, I haven't seen you for a while.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I've had this massive life-changing experience, and yet life is still going along, you know, doing every day.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how do you yeah, so clearly sometimes, you know, as in um that experience that you've just shared, that it does you can't integrate, like, but how do you manage that each time you go traveling?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't manage it well.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I guess start planning the next one.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that that's definitely I've spent many trips home like crying on airplanes because I didn't want to go home.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think you know the first few days or weeks are always awful.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um but uh as I've gotten older, I've realized I just have to get on with it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: And um, but I think it's it's interesting what you say with people.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I think when you're younger, we we we see that differently.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: And now, like I don't really talk about my trips when I come home because nobody cares, right?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: They care for like 30 seconds and then their eyes glaze over, unless you have a friend in your hometown that gets it and that does the same things.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: But that is very rare.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's also part of why we love to travel, is that we're meeting people who are like-minded and who want to have these conversations, and that's very bonding and it sets you on a different playing field than than your community at home.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, now when I get home, I just I feel like I've really changed that part of my life because I used to get really depressed, and now it's just like there's no point.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: I must, you just have to sort of get back into your life, but yeah, plan the next trip for sure.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it does make you question, you know, what am I doing?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Why do I live here?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: Is this the right place for me?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm one of those people like I can go anywhere and I think I'm supposed to live there.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I've also learned that that it's like this is an uh like an addiction, right?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: Where you're like, oh, I've been here for three days, like I can see my life here.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone says that every time I come home, they're like, Okay, Melissa, so where do you think you could live now?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it's kind of a nomadic thing, isn't it?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and it's it's kind of nice that you feel at home essentially with yourself, and therefore you can adapt to various different environments.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're not kind of you're not kind of stuck, you know, with this particular identity.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that is there's a nice kind of liberating feeling that um yeah, so who knows?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's an interesting world we live in.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ain't that the truth?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um how has travel changed as you've got older?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about being a bit more selective, but you've um yeah, how is it how has how has it changed?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think for me, I need more of a purpose.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I think when I was younger, you know, I would sign up for trips that were like just kind of you were bouncing around and a couple days here and there and seeing things and whatever, and I didn't really put a lot of thought into it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: I thought, oh, Belize sounds fun, Guatemala sounds.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: I love that part of the world, so I didn't really care what I was doing, I was just happy to go.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that now it's always around being active.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: So now, yeah, it's got to be a hiking or cycling trip or something of that nature.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm still happy to go and do other things, but um, that has got to be a component for me.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that's it's for many reasons.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: One is like we sit, I sit a lot, you know.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: I am I'm an unfortunate one of these unfortunate people that has a desk job.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: So, um, and I've I've always been into fitness, and and it's a nice way to see the country or a world the world, you know, it's like moving by your own steam.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's more um purpose, and I learned this through writing my book, is that when so when I did this trip uh in 2010, and what this book is about, the people you meet, I was with a partner, he was from England, and we were traveling around Southeast Asia, and it was a multi-month trip.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: He was always going to be there longer than I was.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: But when you are with somebody who has their own purpose and it's not your purpose, it's a very different dynamic, and we had not ever talked about that, nor probably realized that would be an issue.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: We traveled together a lot.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: He worked in luxury travel, although he was also like a backpacker at heart, but he was um going in this direction of working in luxury travel.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, this big trip we were doing was for him to research some routes and meet people in hotels and tour operators and things like that.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so he was very much locked into the why of being there.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: And me, I was just like la di-da, I'm aren't I lucky that I'm the plus one?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I learned a lot about hotels.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: I went to a lot of the meetings, it was very interesting, but it wasn't my dream, it was his dream.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that caused some problems because I'm a very much a person whose brain is going all the time and questioning things, and I need something for me.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: So on these long-haul buses and trains, I started creating these stories in my head about what I was seeing and doing and just how I was feeling.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was 2010.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't have a phone to connect with anyone.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: So once a week I found an internet cafe and and I sent these things out, and that gave me something to do.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: That was my new purpose, and that really fed me.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think since then I've really realized that I must have something else going on than just hanging out and traveling.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: It just doesn't work for me anymore.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's common with a lot of people.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's why you see all digital nomads now or community projects or people tacking something on to a trip to feel like, you know, maybe they're exploring a hobby or they're volunteering, or I don't know what it is, but I I think we need more than just floating around as travelers at this point.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when you refer to that process as purpose, was it purpose?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like it's purpose to kind of just help you process your own experience?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or having put it now into a book, has that purpose kind of gone beyond that into what supporting others as they travel, or that's a good, a very good question.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think at the time it was my way of feeling connected to people back home.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, because I was sending these stories out as emails to friends and family and getting really good.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, people love them, and that that very much probably helped me 15 years later to realize I could put this in a book.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I think it was connectivity, but it was also storytelling.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like I really um fell into something that fed me.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: I love I love humor and writing, I love being honest, I love like playing with words.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: So uh that sort of fed into a lot of things for me on that trip to it.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was just a very creatively inspiring for me.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think now putting it into a book, um, it's a great question.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if I even know myself, but I think it was a story that I felt always needed to be told.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: And if I didn't tell it, it would bother me.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I have learned as you do when you put something out, it's the response from other people.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's when you learn what your book is about.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: Right, and that has been a journey I did not expect.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when you put something out, you think, okay, it's out, this is my story, but then you start hearing interpretations from other people and what they got out of it and what it's done for them, and so here we are.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a very interesting journey.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: When you do something, it always leads to something else.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that you're store you're sharing stories about the connections you've made as well, because isn't I I feel like for just us humans, that those stories we realise how similar we all are, don't we?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And although our stories might differ to a degree, like there's a there's often a common thread, and that there that does create more of a connection and a connectedness between humans, um, you know, rather than uh we're different, you know, what's different about you, me, and you know, that person over there.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: But when you when you do start sharing stories, you realize actually we're all having a similar connected experience.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and that is exactly what I love about writing and sharing my stories.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like the more we share our honesty and our vulnerabilities and the good, the bad, and the ugly, the more connected we are, as you're saying.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: And that is something a lot of people have come up to me and or you know, connected with me over this book, just saying, thank you so much.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was 35 when I did that trip and I stayed true to that person at 35.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: I've had women in that age category talk to me about, you know, no one's ever expressed what it is that I'm going through because I I'd never wanted kids, I struggled in relationships, I felt very suffocated.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: All of that is in the book.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: And just even admitting to that, you know, that you think differently than the people around you has that's created some interesting, you know, connections with people.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, I think it's very important to share what we're going through.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then we do, we all feel like we're not alone and we can share more and more and more.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: And if we could all be doing that, I think maybe it would be a little bit better, the world that we're living in.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think the other problem is also social media, as much as I mean, I I use it, of course, because we have to these days if you're doing anything.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: But I try to be very transparent on there.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's not not every picture is beautiful.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not perfect.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's another thing about travel is that there's a lot of glamorizing of of a thing of um a way to spend your time or a hobby that is not glamorous.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody looks good on the road.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, some people do, I never do.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's it's gross, it's hot, it's sweaty, it's dirty, it's scary sometimes.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not there's also beautiful parts of it too, but you've got to capture all of it because I think it can paint the wrong message.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's a lot of people that are nervous and they don't think they have the right to be in that space because they don't look like what they're seeing on social media, and I think that's so incredibly wrong.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, I try to be very honest and very human about all of it because it's just normal people out there doing it.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: Let's not pretend otherwise.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have my uh battles with the socials as well.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like just being on a screen, you know, talking to you right now, and the fact that we see ourselves so much more than we would it and like I think being doing what you're doing out in nature.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: You don't you're not spending any time looking at spent spending any time seeing how you look.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so much, and yeah, I I often wonder like what would it be like if I didn't have that always, you know, that reflection back.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, surreal, yeah.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's that's a really good point, actually.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because we never never never had it.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: No, and like back in the day, you just you had your camera and you were lucky if you took one good picture and you'd pay for all of them.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's so true.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like we've just become very vain, haven't we?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's often like you get you go to the well, we used to go to the chemist to get our film developed, and you know, there'd often be like half of them with the the shutter was off or you've a finger in front of the.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you throw most of them out.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, it's terrible.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what was I gonna ask you next?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's gone.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about traveling in midlife.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we were talking about your book, weren't we?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask you some of the stories, but you did mention right at the beginning of our conversation about um some of the elders that you meet on your travel adventures.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, how how's the how's everything different in with the midlife travel compared to your youthful experiences?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's really interesting actually.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I do find I go to bed a lot earlier.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: You don't stay up at the at the beach party.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if someone um if someone asked me, I probably would, but I am a yeah.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um I find it extremely interesting.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: So in 2023, I was 48 and I took a year off and did some big trips again.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I really encountered a lot of older people.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, not always, but just some legends out there.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was in uh Bolivia, and there was an Australian guy there.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think he was in his late 70s or early 80s.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: He was a doctor, and he was amazing.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: He had a backpack, he was roughing it.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: We I had I was on my own and had signed up again with a very strange company that took me in a Jeep for like four days into the salt flats, and that was not easy and um not comfortable, uh yeah, awful actually, but the scenery was so beautiful.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: But this old guy was there as well, just like roughing it and um finding his way around South America, and like what a legend, you know.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I meet people like this all the time.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: Last year I was in Italy hiking the Dolomites, which are not easy.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: And most of the people were in their late 60s, early 70s, mid-70s, and they were in phenomenal shape.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I was saying to you earlier, like I was always the last one down the mountain.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: They were just in phenomenal fitness.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um I uh in this book that I wrote about, there's a woman in there who was 70 who was traveling alone, had been for I think a year at least at this point, was traveling through like India, China.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: These are not easy countries to travel even with somebody.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then Southeast Asia.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I find, you know, I don't know if people, when they're in their 20s and they meet these people, I don't know that they get it.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're in your 50s and you're meeting these legends in their 70s and 80s, it's so important to see that it doesn't stop, you know, and that if you look after your body and your mind, these are things that you can do well into older age.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: And these are fun people.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've always loved, you know, anyone that's older than me anyway.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: But um just, you know, the conversations and the the life lessons and the wisdom.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love meeting people like this on the road, and I think it's really important.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've met a lot of interesting young people too.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not I don't want to be ageist in the other way either.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: But um I think yeah, when you're in the middle and middle age, it's it's a very interesting time to sort of see see both sides of the corner of the coin.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um but no, I've I've really, really met some fascinating older people and it just inspires you to keep going and to keep getting out there because I think there's a lot of people that give up and give in and think it's it's too late, and I just don't agree with that.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's always a room for there's always room for adventure, there's always room for a trip if that's in your system.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah, it's interesting, yeah.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: But but certainly middle age changes you, it changes like your priorities and like the things you want to do for sure.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, has it made you think twice before doing anything a little bit wild?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, jumping off what did you call that thing that you did that I saw the video?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: Cliff jumping.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Cliff jumping, oh my god.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, it was very safe there, thank God.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a very attractive man that was like watching pushing you.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: So um, I would not do that without knowing because I'm I'm terrified of things like that, like dying and hitting my head.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not I'm not up for it.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: But if I if someone is a local and they know.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna live, then I'll do it.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um but uh I don't know.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm still pretty interested in in adventure and some risky things.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: But um when I did my when I did write this book and I was editing it, I was like, oh my god, I don't know that I would do some of these things again.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like there were a lot of um moments of jumping into the cars of strange men in the backseat.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that I'm up for that anymore, you know?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it's more things like that.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I found even uh three years ago I was traveling and I was in Mexico by myself, and I love Mexico.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: I've always felt very safe there.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, it's like when you're arriving to places like at night in the dark, that's always challenging.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I try to do that less and less and less, you know, as I get older, I'm just not up for it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: There's certain feelings I don't want to feel anymore.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's you you kind of pivot away from things like that.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: That when you are younger, you're like, yeah, whatever.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm not I'm not in the whatever phase anymore, you know.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you kind of weigh up the consequences a little bit more, don't you?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: But there is a really interesting thing about our age because I've I have spoken to this about this with a few people.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in the invisible woman category now, and that is fascinating.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's good and bad, but I did discover this at 48 when I was traveling a lot because you know, I had my day when I was in my 20s and 30s and even 40s, and people, you know, you're you're still noticed, and you're, you know, you you're given attention.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: And at 48, I was like, this is very different now.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm you're kind of under the radar.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: And in some ways, that's really awesome because you're not getting attention and unwanted attention, and people pretty much don't even know that you're there half the time.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: That can do a number on your ego in some ways, but in other ways, it's like this is very liberating.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: So that kind of zone of middle-aged travel is very, very interesting.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: And a friend of mine was just in um Morocco and went through the same thing.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: And at first, she's like, Does it is it because I I look tough and no one should talk to me?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, No, it's because you're 50 and no one knows you're there.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: And in some ways, it's like there's more safety in that, you know.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really interesting revelation uh for middle-aged travel for for women, I think.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wow.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't even I don't I haven't really noticed.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I haven't traveled, so I don't know if it's just relevant to travel, but I haven't noticed feeling invisible, but maybe I am.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I just I'm oblivious.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well depends, I guess.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: Depends where you go.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: But if you go traveling, like last uh three years ago, I was with all these uh un like I did not want to be, but I ended up with some influencers that were in their 20s, 20s, like 25, and trust me, you're very invisible at 40.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay when you have some 25-year-old influencers that have no clothes on.
• 47:48
  unknown: Fair enough.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you continue to write about your travels now?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting because I think technology has made things better and worse.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I think now that we have Instagram, you can when you're on a trip, you can post something every night and get that actual writing bug out of your system.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: Although I don't really do that because for me, I need to marinate in the experience.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: I often write those posts when I come home.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I I think that back in 2010 when we didn't have that, I mean, writing was a real outlet, you know, and I think it's changed now.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: However, I have started writing a second book, but I have to go a lot of it by my Instagram posts and by memory because because it's just different now.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like back in the day, like writing those emails was all you had, or writing it in a journal, whereas now you're just sending out snippets whenever you want.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yes, I will continue to write because I love it.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you wouldn't write another book, or would you?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have started a second one, yeah.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: But it will take a while.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, definitely.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: One of the um I interviewed a few of the listeners um a little while ago, and one of the things that women said in their 40s and beyond was a desire to travel or have more adventure in their lives.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, good.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: But um what so what are some of the things that you would say to those women?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously we're all in different circumstances as well.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's parents like me who've got relatively, you know, still quite young children, empty nesters on the other hand, people in relationship, solo travelers like yourself.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: So there's yeah, how do we choose like what's right for us?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is it yeah, what what have you got to say about that?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's really interesting because I've noticed, and I'm and this is my own observation, but then I actually read an article about this the other day that confirmed that I am observant, that um there's a lot of women out there traveling.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's way more single women out there traveling than couples or men, I think.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I think part of that is that women are actually a little bit more adventurous.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: I really believe that.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think certainly there's lots of adventurous men, but I think that there's something in this for women, and I think things are changing a little bit into how middle-aged women are actually living their lives.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think there's also some some guys just don't want to do some of these things.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: I my I do have a partner and we do some traveling together and some of it we do separately because he doesn't want to go on a hiking trip or a cycling trip, and I don't want to drag him there, he will he would drive me crazy.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's also important to have experiences on your own, um, together and on your own.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: So my advice is you you have if if you have a partner that doesn't want to do what you want to do, you can still do it.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have to like I'm if you are in a relationship where they don't want you to go do something like that, well, then that's a whole new territory.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: But if you have the right partner, they should applaud you to go and have an adventure.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: You do not have to wait for them, you don't even have to wait for a friend.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: There are so many companies out there that many solo travelers show up to, and then you're with a pack of people for you know 10 days, two weeks, whatever it is.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: And like those are the trips that I often do where I'm on my own, and then there you are with like-minded people.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes there are couples on that trip or families or whatever, like older families.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: But the people who show up alone are always having way more fun, let me tell you.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so there's that.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that exists.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, and if you're if you want to go completely on your own, I think it's never been safer.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: There are so many apps, and they're, you know, when I was in Mexico, I was alone, and every day I signed up for something.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: It could be like a three-hour walking tour, or like a I did a beer and taco tour one night, or one day I did like a very long trip seeing a million different things and tasting mascal and blah, blah, blah.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you can plan as much or as little as you want to.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: It the world has we're it's a very easy time to do that in the world now with the internet.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and other than that, I would just say, you know, um, you can start small.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: It can be like going away for a weekend, it can be doing something in your own city or your own country or wherever, but um, just do something and see how you feel.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think sometimes people find are afraid of the unknown, but I think that once you have some freedom, there's no better feeling.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: It can be the other things we were talking about, it can be hard, it can be lonely sometimes, but it can also be um amazing and very liberating.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that you have to expect to feel everything.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like I had a moment in Italy, I was in um the Cinquotere region, I was on my own, and I remember this one day.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was hiking, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm I'm just the happiest I've ever been in my whole entire life.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't this wonderful?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then I jumped into the sea and I went swimming, and then I ate some like amazing pastry, and then four hours later, I was the loneliest person.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_03: I you it's just gonna go like that.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's you gotta ride the highs and you gotta ride the lows, and it's just like life, right?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's never gonna be you're never gonna be running through the you know, the field of tulips the singing, isn't my life wonderful?
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be hard, it's gonna be great, it's gonna be sad, it's gonna be happy, it's life.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_03: So expect it all.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: And adventure can mean different things for different people, right?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Just getting out of your normal day-to-day routine, like you said, for a weekend can be quite a liberating experience.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um what do you prefer?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you pref or do you not have a preference?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: But some of the things that I was thinking of before we talked, like do you ever visit cities or do you prefer um nature?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: What about wildlife, history, you know, ancient sites?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you like is there anything that you have a preference for or just like a mixture of all of it?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: I I do like a mixture.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: I prefer nature, I prefer the mountains or the ocean, or yeah, I would rather be in that environment, but sure, I have no problem with going to cities.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: I love seeing actually small little villages wherever you are.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: I find that very fun.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: I love seeing schools.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: I never go in them, but I just think there's something cool about seeing like kids going to school because that's something we can all relate to.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just seeing, you know, walking by, I think that's pretty cool.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, no, I I like everything.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a huge history person, but I do think it's really important to learn a little bit about the places that you are.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_03: And when I was in um Cambodia, I mean in all those countries which are in that my book, the people you meet, I learned so much about history on that trip, um, which was fascinating.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: Things, you know, that I don't feel the rest of that we're not really taught.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I I just think, yes, it's important because sometimes that enhances your experience of a country.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like I remember being in Cambodia and just learning the terrible history of that country, which is not that it's not that long ago.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then that can change your experience there.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: You appreciate the people differently and what they've come through and what they're like.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I find Cambodians to be such magical people, full of great humor and charm and kindness, and they don't have to be, they have lived through atrocities, but they are, and so sometimes I think if I didn't know that, you would not appreciate a culture or a population in the same way.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's quite important.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: Your book, as we come to a close, like what would you who would you say it's for?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, you've mentioned already that people different people are getting different things out of it.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: But if they were if someone was gonna um yeah, what would what would pique their interest?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: What would why might they choose your book?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think to be honest, there's something in it for everybody.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: If you travel, uh you'll get a kick out of it.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: If you've been to that part of the world, I mean anyone who's been there says, oh my goodness, you've taken me right back there with like the descriptions of the sounds and the smells and the scenery and the people.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: So that's fun.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I think um, well, and then I'll get to my my next thought in a minute, but also if you're an armchair traveler and you don't even care about traveling, it's a great adventure, and you'll be thrilled that I did a lot of these things for you that you don't have to do because some of them are not that pleasant.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: So there's that.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I think overall it's um it might inspire people, that's what I hear, to to be more honest, maybe about where they're at, to be a little bit more adventurous, um, and to maybe just take the odd risk and to listen to yourself.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of that in this book, just about dialing into what your body's telling you.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I think that that's really important.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, and it's funny.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you learn about that part of the world, but you're also gonna have a really good laugh.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I really think it's for everyone.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people who don't read at all or haven't read in a very long time have picked up that book and just like flown through it.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it's also a really quick, easy, fun read, and you know, it's not too taxing.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I think there's something for everyone.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hey there, Rebel.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Midlife Rebel Podcast.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to support the show, you can buy me a coffee by going to Buy MeACoffee forward slash Midlife Rebel Podcast.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.