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How to Stay Fit When You’re Tired of Following a Training Plan · The Endurance Athlete Journey

• 0:09
  unknown: All right.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome everyone to the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Coach Justin, and I'm here with Coach Katie.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: And this is episode 108.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we're actually going to do something a little bit different today.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we don't have really any structured notes.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have an outline.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have anything where we're trying to take this discussion in a particular direction, because the topic for today is when is it appropriate to follow a plan versus to come off the plan and play things by ear, have a little bit of freedom uh in the training, maybe make that switch to training versus exercise, which we've talked about before, and just and just kind of like go back to maybe doing things that you had to sacrifice when you were on a specific training plan.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if you like group classes and that's something that you had to sacrifice to in order to follow something that was structured to prepare for a particular race or event because you are training for performance, when is it a great time to just come off that plan, throw those things back in there, have some enjoyment and just some exercise and some non-structure uh so that when it comes time to follow another plan, you don't feel like you're just going from plan to plan because sometimes that can just either get boring or just downright overwhelming and just kind of you just burn out.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so it I think it's nice to have some of these periods of time where we relax our expectations, we relax our goals, and we just kind of get back to uh some basics and just have fun within within your training or within your exercise.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why we don't have any structure because it fits the title and topic that we want to talk about.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're just gonna kick this thing off.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so Katie, what do you what are your thoughts on uh when when do you like to follow a plan versus when do you like to kind of come off and and have a little bit of freedom?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh when you kind of share your insights, maybe I'll come in and and talk about when I like to do that, either for me or for my athlete.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you take it away, go for it.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think so.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of thinking over the last year because there were some times I was following a plan and then times I wasn't following like a stripped plan.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I always I could have always liked to have some idea of what I'm going to do.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So because I am a planner, like innate my natural instinct is to plan things.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I like to have things on the calendar and planned out in my, you know, in my calendar, at least some idea of at least even blocking just some time off to exercise, if anything.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to do some level of planning no matter what.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: But let's just say, like, let's just kind of say for me it would be something that was like highly structured.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Every single workout is structured in training peaks versus just some sort of outline of what I might do, or just even blocking off time in my schedule so I'd make sure I do something, you know, sort of that that sort of nature.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very structured, very planned out deliberately versus kind of up in the air.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I decide on the day, but I'm making sure I have it blocked off so I actually do something, you know.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess like when we're talking about planning, it might be the level of which like someone might consider something planned, may differ from each individual.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, when I'm looking at a plan, an actually structured plan, it's usually when I'm training for like that goal race, that that, you know, that A race, like the marathon for me just recently.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So back in March is when I started.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really when like I had spent hours and probably hours, I would say, or quite a bit of time, like sitting down and putting at least some of my key workouts into training peaks.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's always sort of put in as pen in pencil, but I actually sat down and really thought about it and had it planned out sort of the way I wanted it to go and some of my long runs and things like that for the full, you know, March, April, May into June.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So three-ish months, you know, to the race.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that was all really well planned out.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: But prior to that, when I wasn't before I sort of had that structured plan, I was running, but there wasn't like structured workouts, you know, generally.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was just kind of like just trying to get in the mileage, right?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot less planning, there's a lot less, like maybe in training peaks, it's kind of like, okay, I'm just roughly putting in each week, like even week by week, kind of what I'm maybe want to do, but there's not like a like it's not planned out for several months in advance.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's kind of the way I'm viewing this.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I'm interpreting it for myself.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: For other people, it may be just like having no plan at all, and you just do whatever you feel like, and you don't even put anything in the calendar.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just not that kind of person.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess um, I always have something.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Even now, like I finished my marathon and I took a week off.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And last week was pretty was kind of the like I had no real plan that like that might last like a week or two for me, where I just kind of let myself do whatever I want.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I might put something in there, but it can change.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: It has a two or three times this week, I've decided I don't want to do something or I didn't feel like up for it yet.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I just let myself do or where there was a strength workout I had changed a little bit because I just wasn't feeling up for it.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like trying to let myself recover.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't I put so much pressure on myself to do workouts when I'm following a plan that I do like this time when I can kind of be like, I just don't feel like it.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm gonna let this one go, or I'm gonna do a little bit less, or I'm just gonna try to do something and not let myself do nothing, but I'm just gonna do something and it doesn't matter what it is.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just need to move, right?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'll probably do that this week and then, or I did that this last week, and then I start to kind of I I'm running a mile race in August.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll start to kind of come up with the little bit of an outline for how I would like to train for that and start putting in strength training.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: But really, because it's not a race that I am, it's just like a fun race.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just trying to get in some speed and I'm trying to work on speed, like it is all sort of in like I have an outline in training peaks of some of the things I workouts I want to do and stuff like that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like I don't have a plan.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, it's it's planned, but it's not you know, every week I could change my mind.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: I could decide I want to do something different or I want to throw something in, and that's a fun thing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I could um I don't do CrossFit right now, but I could when I sign up again, maybe in August, when I'm ready gearing up for my high rocks, I might jump in and do a workout because it looks fun.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, I might go and do a group run when I normally wouldn't do that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So there's things that I'll probably add in that I wasn't doing before because it wasn't part of my plan.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: But now it's like, oh, there's a track workout they're doing on Tuesday.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna go because I want to go run with someone.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not really, you know, it's not really the type of workout I would maybe normally do, but I want to go run with someone, you know.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's kind of nice because it's more open-ended.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's not like this like, well, this is a workout I have to follow and I can't really deviate.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of where I'm at.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think when high rock starts, it'll be I'll I'll plan it out a lot more, um, a little bit more just because I will want to start sort of specifically training for that.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then once that's over, again, I go through another period of um oh through the winter, sort of of a little bit less structure and just doing kind of what I think is fun, rich running, you know, because I enjoy it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometime next year I might gear up again, you know.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So this I go through waves periods, but I've always have something in my calendar, or I always block off time and want to at least do something to keep my fitness up.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know about you, like how are you interpreting plan versus no plan?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think this could be different for different people, like I said.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how how do you do it?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: You've you've seen my training peaks, so you know that there's always a plan.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think what I what I tend to do, and this is just for myself, myself as an athlete, not as a coach.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I will kind of relax uh some of the structure on particular activities.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say that I might get a little bit more lenient with my run training and uh not necessarily kind of like you know pushing for performance, but just trying to keep up volume, just trying to keep that base rather than trying to progress it.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying to hold on to some kind of fitness level.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh one of the things that I did was I I loved it that I I bought the gravel bike uh over a year ago now because it does allow me to introduce a different style of riding.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I was training for the triathlons this year, I I put the gravel bike away and was solely dedicated to the road bike.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And once the triathlons were over, or once I perceived that they were over, uh, I was able to, you know, put the road bike on the trainer more often and just kind of like leave it there.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I do like a group ride on Thursdays with with the tri-club.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and so uh broke out the gravel bike.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so like a lot of my longer stuff is on that bike now.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's a nice change of pace, it's a nice change in muscle engagement and position and posture and just enjoyment level.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's a different it's a change of scenery.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm now more on some trails, which is a lot different than just riding on the road or even on you know, bike paths or multi-use paths.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that's one that's some of the things that I will tend to do uh to just maintain some fitness, but just change it up a little bit.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'll change up my strength workouts and get away from a particular approach and implement a new method and change up some movements.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um so really there's there's never there's never a time where there isn't a plan, I think, but the the the purpose behind the plan changes.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just how I how I operate, you know, as an individual.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I I don't I I would not function well as an athlete where there was nothing on the calendar, or it said like athlete choice, and you just kind of do whatever you want to do that day.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't operate very well under under those conditions, but I work with athletes who do, and they really like that level of freedom.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I've been working with one athlete for for years now, and you know, there there's some things that are going on, and so he wanted to have more freedom and less structure so that I I knew that he was going to do something whenever he could, but he didn't want to feel the pressure to say, oh, I have to do this workout.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I give him the freedom to move things around within guardrails, of course, but there's very little structure.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just like, okay, you know, I have a couple runs in there, I have strength workouts, and I was just like, dude, I I I know you're gonna do whatever it is that you can do with with travel and whatever is going on, but I'm here, I'm I'm setting up the guardrails for you so you know how far to go and how far not to go.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then I just manage it that way until he gets to a point where he feels comfortable.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, now I can commit to training.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now he just wants to be active and kind of maybe just get stronger with the focus of the weight room, but there's no like structured performance-driven training plan.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it seems to be working well for him.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, but I know that there's going to come a time where he wants to make that switch.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, a lot of times when we have to make these adjustments, we either have to make them out of something that we don't control, so something in your life has changed, and you need that level of freedom now.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you he's he's been doing this for a really long time, so I know that he loves to stay active and he knows what to do and what not to do.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just kind of there, just kind of like guiding him a little bit rather than directing him.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times when I have athletes that are done with a particular race, then I kind of loosen the reins a little bit and just say, okay, now there's the pressure's off, our race is done, we don't really have anything on the calendar, so now let's just kind of loosely go and still stay active, but we're kind of loosely moving forward.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is going to be an open, an open cardio workout.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I leave you the option on what you know, this is an hour and a half worth of cardio.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can either go for an hour and a half hike, you can go for an hour and a half bike ride, whatever it is that you want to do.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want you going out for an hour and a half run because that's that's going to push you beyond a limit to where you're not at.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the kind of guardrails that I'll set up for somebody.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I give them the freedom to choose when there's kind of nothing going on.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And but what we do is I think what's important um is to set uh uh a time limit to those to those scenarios.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: I say, you know, our race is done, so let's take two months of some some casual training.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Let's try and hold on to some fitness.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to work on something in particular, you need to tell me what it is that you want to work on.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to set the plan to work to get you from one place to another.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I want you to communicate with me.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, now I'm ready.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do this, but I still want to keep some level of freedom.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Then I know that there's some piece of the puzzle that I need to to structure.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: But keep setting a limit to it will keep you from allowing that to prolong until you get to a point where now you're you're starting to lose ground rather than just maintaining fitness.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can maintain fitness for a while.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's not something that you can do perpetually.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that that's that's important um when it comes to managing current fitness and not allowing yourself to kind of settle into that.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I I'm kind of curious on what your thoughts are on whether you like the idea or whether you do that as well, where you say, I'm going to allow myself uh two months of of freedom to kind of do what I want or do something with a little bit less structure, but once once that time period is up, I I want to do some kind of structure.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to all be structured, but some kind of structure.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um what do you what do you see with that?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean I feel like um I feel like that's a a good idea to have some amount of time where there's no structure.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I ha like and you mentioned an athlete, your athlete that you have, and I have one that's kind of similar.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: She like I put the workouts in there for her to for the running workouts, but she's also sort of training similar to uh what I'm doing.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: She's doing like a high rocks and she's do like a high rocks race, and she's trying to train for like 5K, 10K.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing the run workouts, and then she has those high rocks workouts she does at a gym kind of locally, so it's two days a week.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So she kind of moves like there's some parameters I've given her to like I don't want you know two really hard days generally back to back, and we're trying to fit in like a lot a longer, not a long, long run, but like a longish run.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's a couple of things we're trying to work on.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's hard because with those two other workouts in there, it gets a little challenging.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, she can move, she moves things around a little bit if she feels like she needs to.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I get that there is a little bit of that freedom of like, okay, just don't just make sure you don't like load up several hard days in a row.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you have one rest day, you got you can kind of put it where you think it's appropriate.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there's yeah, kind of guardrails, like you're saying.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's just like sh this particular athlete, she has goals, but she also has like she travels sometimes and has like a busy work schedule.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, it's not it's not it's like the plan isn't it's a looser, but she's still training for something.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: She's not like extremely serious, she does it mostly because she enjoys it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I think that's okay too.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And whether you call that a plan or not a plan, I mean, it gets kind of like a gray area sometimes of like, well, it's still something's in there and planned.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, but I you know, I was thinking when you were mentioning your athlete, kind of of of that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, you know, when when I'm working with someone, it's really just trying to figure out what level of plan they want.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like how do they want it to be something where or do they need it to be something where they kind of there's boundaries or you're setting parameters, but they're like they're able to move things around if they need to, or are they someone that like has to have it, they want it all planned out to the T and they're gonna follow it, you know, day by you know each day.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they're very they're not likely to like move things around, you know.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you've uh you know work with people in both of those situations.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they're you know, one maybe isn't necessarily it was still a plan, right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I guess, you know, when it's but then to have like the scenario scenario you're talking about where it's like kind of open-ended, I do think that's helpful, but I still think that it's help, you know, like you said, without something there, without guardrails set of some sort, people can easily just lose a lot of fitness because I think it's like, oh, well, I have two months to kind of do whatever I want.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, unless you're highly motivated to do some sort of fitness, like go hiking or biking and doing strength training, um, to kind of have it be totally up in the air without any parameters, I think for many people it could be pretty risky because they might there might be like days and days that they don't train, you know, because you're kind of like not having any anything in there to sort of help you figure out what you need to do.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I just think for me, like I'm kind of like you, like I personally need to have something, some sort of plan in there because um I think without it, if I'm just set to do whatever I want, like I, you know, I'm motivated and I want to be fit, but I'm also like not it's hard for me to just do whatever I want, you know, like get up in the morning and be like, what am I gonna do today?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could get to the end of the day and be like, oh, I haven't done anything, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't even done any training.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's the risk.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's the risk, yeah.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think it can be good in certain instances to have no plan for a little while.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think two months of no plan at all would be uh, I think a little too long.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me, the no plan is really the week or two after a big race, right?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: I give myself that freedom, but then I have some sort of something in there.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you look at my training peaks now, I put for the next month until that um one mile race, I kind of put an outline of what I want to do and what workouts I might want to do to kind of prep for that.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I like to have that in there.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I want to have some speed, I want to work on my strength.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to put those in there.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, I'm not gonna do it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna do easy runs every day, 30-minute easy runs every day.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm never, you know, if I'm just left to my own devices, I'll just kind of willy-nilly do what I feel like maybe, and maybe that'll keep my fitness, but I'm surely not gonna get, I don't know, any faster.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think from from my perspective, I think the no plan at all, like zero plan, like nothing at all should be pretty limited, right?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe a couple weeks after your race.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then you should have some idea.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um like you you're saying, like, okay, you have uh an hour I want you to do cardio, or and you can pick whatever you want, or you you need your strength, or someone like wants to add in like CrossFit or something, like okay, three classes a week limit, you know, like or and you pick the days, and then you know, um, or something like that, but some sort of idea, and and and still that's has some level of a plan, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So but it's just a little more loose and still structured, but less specific, I suppose.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my I think the way that I like to think about it is that I I will I will turn control over to the athlete, um, but not a hundred percent control.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it allows them, I think, to feel like they do have some kind of say and they're in charge.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, ultimately, the athletes that we work with, they do have a say.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: They can either do the workouts that we give them or they not do it.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And they're the ones that are setting the goals.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: We're just trying to help them blaze that path forward to set them up um as best as we can to accomplish those goals.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think that there tends to be a semblance of of I don't want to say like a power struggle, but sometimes there are periods where, you know, me as a coach, I have to set them down and say, look, I I know that I know that you like to do this, um, but if you trust me, trust me now.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I like to I like to do that with with the strength side because I have one athlete that I work with.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Love working with her.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and she's got these strength workouts that she likes to do and but there's she likes to pick them.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh her primary focus is she's trying to uh build up her her run base.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So she's she's a single sport athlete and you know there's very few races that she does a year.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we're not actively training for a particular race, I will say, you know, here are the runs that I kind of want you to do.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I'll throw in some structures like, okay, this is some intensity, and you know, like for instance, I'm giving her some some functional strength runs right now just to mix things up, and then I'll do that for a couple weeks, and then I'll switch over to more of a pace-based where we're trying to work on like increasing leg turnover.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm trying to make the workouts fun and I'm changing them up so that it doesn't feel like you're constantly focusing on one particular skill like all the time.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: But now is a great time where I say, now I've turned over the control over what you do for strength.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to do, I want you to do two strength workouts a week.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: These are resistance-based, like weight training kind of workouts, but you can pick them.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: You do whatever it is that you want to do, whatever you have fun doing.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's going to come a time within the training plan, and I was like, look, uh I know that you really like to do these, but I want to give you some specificity in your training plan to where I want to develop particular muscle groups that I know are going to be important and getting you where it is that you want to go.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: So trust me, if you're willing to sacrifice that level of so-called quote unquote freedom, then I think it's going to be a worthwhile investment.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll take over and I'll program the strength stuff for her, and she'll do those for for however long it takes.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, okay, now it's done.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh now you you can go forward and just pick whatever strength stuff that you want.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's over with now.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so it kind of gives them a break and it kind of gets them to feel like, okay, now I have some kind of say and control over what it is that I that I get to do with this particular aspect of my training plan.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I like to do that just to so that they don't feel uh like they're constantly uh engaged, like they're constantly like focused.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it kind of relieves some of the pressures of of following a plan because I can understand that to a certain extent.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because when I was a coached athlete, there is always some level of pressure to perform for your coach and to follow the plan that they set forth.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know that the way that I looked at it is like, man, I, you know, I wanted to, you know, execute his workouts because I felt like, you know, he put a lot of thought.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I assume he put a lot a lot of thought into the workouts that he was giving me, and there's a purpose behind it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't want him to feel like he's wasting his time on me.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to execute what it is that that he has for me.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel that sometimes the longer those stretches go, the more it can kind of feel like you're just kind of weighted down a little bit.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just that pressure just kind of builds and builds and builds.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it's sometimes it's nice to just relieve that pressure a little bit and say, okay, now you know you're at a point now where I think that you can take charge of this.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna be here to to watch you and and protect you to a certain extent.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: And these are the guardrails that I've set up, so you can go this far, but I don't want you going beyond this.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um I like that you brought up the fact that the sequencing of the workouts, like I don't want you doing two hard workouts back to back, and that's a conversation that I always have with with people that I implement this uh style of of training, this block of training.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'll call it a block because a block implies that there is a start and end date to it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, okay, for this block, you know, this is this is how we're going to approach this.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I'm giving you the freedom to move things around, but these are the guardrails.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want you doing, you know, two two runs back to back for some of my my newer athletes because I don't want them running on consecutive days, or I don't want you to do like two hard runs where you do like a speed session and then you the very next day you do some kind of like functional strength work on the on the treadmill or go run hills.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't want us doing that.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Let's put a day in between those so you can move them around, but these are the parameters in which you can move them around.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: During a training plan, like a specified training plan, what I do is I lock my work, my athlete's workouts.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'll go into training peaks, and there's an option to lock them so that they can't move things around and delete things so that we have to have that conversation.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I know it probably comes across as like, oh, this guy's just a control freak, but I do it for a particular reason because I think that there's a time and place for the athlete to move things around, but then there's a time and place for me to set the sequence because I'm the one that has the understanding on why we're doing it this way.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't mean that they can't come to me and say, hey, I've got a scheduling conflict uh and it's last minute.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know about this.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Can we move things around?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, absolutely, but I want to be the one that does it because you know I want to make sure that whatever the new sequence is fits within the parameters of what we're trying to accomplish, given the limitations and parameters that I'm working with on for that particular athlete.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'll be the one that moves those around for them.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: And because sometimes what what you'll get is you'll have an athlete who will miss a run and then they want to move it, and so now they run the risk of moving it to a spot where now it's going to jeopardize the next day's run because maybe they're running short on days of the week and they're it's like we're approaching the end of the week, so there's not a whole lot of freedom to move things around, you're just kind of stuck.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: But then I have to have that conversation.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, can we move this?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes or and yes or no, and I have to make that decision.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or do I just say, you know, normally we would move this if it happened earlier in the week?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: We might we might have had a little bit more freedom to move things around, but this is now a missed session, it's not going to derail your plan.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're still gonna be able to move forward, but this was just a missed opportunity.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Life happens, it's going to happen and it's no big deal.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're just going to move forward with that.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: And but we're not going to try and make this session up.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I don't know.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's that tends to be how I kind of I function with my athletes.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean that makes sense to managing a plan.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for when they're in the plan, because you're right.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just um if the freedom is there, then I think some people, like you're saying, may move it and tire themselves out because they're trying to they're trying to do too much and they didn't, you know, you've thought it through.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, usually when I'm creating a training plan that's well thought out for like a race, there's specific days I I'm sort of throughout the week, I'm sort of looking at the training load and kind of what the athlete's doing and making sure there is enough balance or some balance between what they're doing and then the recovery and making sure that with strength or something, I'm not having them do like a a heavy leg session right before the like a really key workout, you know, the day before.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're moving it around, they're gonna maybe like mess up or either get injured, maybe, or like kind of mess up um what I've structured for them, kind of thinking it out like that.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like okay, this I have it very specifically set for some sort of reason.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize you could lock it, so I'll have to check that feature out.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: But generally I don't have athletes move it.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Usually there is a conversation of okay, like I'm really trying to make sure I have their schedule, so there is a way to put they could put in their availability in there, which is really helpful in the training because which you know we both use that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, for some of those other training plan creating apps, but uh there's a way to put in.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I have I'll have them either do it in there or send me an email so that I know I'm like working around their schedule as best I can.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and obviously last minute things happen, and so I'm just hoping, you know, generally people are communicating that with me.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of the expectation I set generally when I work with an athlete.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like I said, there are certain people that I give a little bit more freedom to versus you know, uh it just depends on the goal and the athlete um too and what they're you know, where they're at.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um like some people I think are training and they're like well, the one I'm thinking of uh that I've mentioned before.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: She's she's got goals, but I think she's really more fitness oriented, and you know, she's trained, at least at this point.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if she's like comes to me and she's like, Well, I really want to do a marathon or something, and I have a specific time, I think it changes a little bit.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's yeah, maybe more of a conversation of like, okay, well, we have to be a little more specific about what we're doing.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, for most of my athletes who come and say, I want to train for a marathon or a 10K or 5K or something, it's that's like that initial call I have with them.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, I'll do some sort of initial intake of some sort.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times it might be like a Zoom call initially, um, of some and asking some of these questions about their schedule and really trying to get that figured out and then some of those expectations set, you know, in that very first call.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I think I do have athletes who kind of go like have a training plan, they work with me, and then you know, they want a little bit more freedom.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they kind of decide, okay, I'm gonna take a break, like do I want to take a break from coaching.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like those individuals, when they do come back to coaching, are generally struggle a little more because when they have been off a plan or they're just kind of set to their own devices, they tend to they tend to lose fitness and then they're sort of coming back like, oh no, I've lost a significant amount of fitness, or I'm trying to train for this, and we're sort of starting at square one.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think like I think a lot of people think when they're working with a coach, like, oh, I'm done with my event.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't want to have any structure so and I don't really want to continue paying for a coach.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think those individuals, if you're unless you can kind of set your own training plan during that time or set some sort of plan for yourself where you're sort of structuring something, I think it's really easy for people to sort of get into that.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um, like I was talking about before.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what am I gonna do today?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I'm not, you know, and then weeks go by where maybe they've hardly done any, they've sort of done some willy-nilly, like jumping into cycling class or going to a group run, but they're not really doing much.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that can get people into trouble.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you're thinking about working with a coach, realize that the coach can help you with your training plan and your um for your race, but you know, the the coach, you know, the the role of the coach can also be in the in-between and helping you set those parameters and giving you the freedom, but also giving you something so that you can continue with your fitness.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do think one of the biggest things we've talked about in so many of our podcasts is just how important being consistent is and having that consistency with training.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and when you do take a significant amount of time off, you do lose fitness, and then you're almost starting all over again with square one.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think there is a time and place for absolutely no plan, but like I said before, it's two maybe one or two weeks, and then there's gotta be some sort of something set there that you're gonna do.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's some of my thoughts on that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think if I if I had to come up with a list of times where I think it's reasonable to come off of a plan and just uh have more freedom, uh I would say time periods where you're surrounding holidays.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um holidays that are heavy traffic holiday kind of things.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we're talking like Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, th those sorts of of holidays is a good time to come off of a plan.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Unless you're racing at that particular time of year, uh, then you know, so be it.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're not, then that's a great time to come off of the plan.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it is a good time to stay active because with those holidays comes all kinds of parties and and food gatherings and things like that.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: So the wheels can come off the bus really easily and quickly if you don't try and at least stay stay active so that you can enjoy the holidays with that level of freedom and still kind of enjoy uh the time of year.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say holidays is probably one.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Second is going to be uh that time period right after a major race, assuming that that you're not one of these that just races like every other week, you know, and you know, if you're if you've if we've worked with a coach and you space it out and you've sought their advice on, hey, let's set a race schedule, um, and you've worked it out to where you've got some down periods in between events before the next plan kicks off, then that's a great time to turn over that freedom and just say, hey, you can just do whatever it is that you want.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to just, you know, spend a whole week and just do an hour of of hiking every single day, uh, just to get on some soft trails and just enjoy being in the woods, and so be it.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's perfectly fine.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think after after a major event, that not only is there a physical deload, but there is a mental and emotional deload that you have to go through in order to process, hey, how did my event go?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: What did I think worked well?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: What did not work well?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's sometimes hard to evaluate those aspects of your performance while you're actively training for something else.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: You really kind of just need to just disconnect to a certain extent to allow your mind to process really how things went.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I I'm speaking from experience.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you're just jumping from plan to plan and you don't really give yourself that downtime, then I think that you kind of miss out on these little important knowledge nuggets and wisdom nuggets that that that you could have gotten from, you know, a particular race on how it went.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you just kind of miss it because you're you're so focused on the next thing that you kind of miss what just happened.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that spending at least kind of like depending on the the race that you just did, spending a few days just some nice easy movement stuff that allows your brain to kind of disconnect from training and be a little bit more introspective and it helps you process kind of how things went.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: The third thing that I would the third time that I think would be good to come off a plan is vacations.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I run across this all the time with athletes where they're training for a race and but they've got a a week-long family vacation that's coming up, and they're so afraid that this this vacation is going to derail their training.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, to me, it it's going to depend on the athlete themselves, because sometimes I work with athletes where they love that time because now they have no pressures of work.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're they have more freedom.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say that they're early risers and the rest of the family is in there sleeping, they may actually enjoy the less pressure from having to do other things, like, oh, I've got to get my workout in because I have to log in for work at this time, or I have to be at work at this time.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it kind of relieves them so they can enjoy the training session a little bit more with less pressure.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: If that's the type of athlete that I'm working with, then that's great.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: We don't we don't have to take a break.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: You just take whatever it is that you can or that you want to take.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're just like, I love riding the bike, then take your bike on vacation.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, no trainer kind of stuff.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Just get out and just ride and we'll keep moving forward because they enjoy, they enjoy that aspect of their training.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: But if they have a situation where it's like, you know what, I I've been working really, really hard.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, now's a great time to just kind of connect with family because they're sacrificing just like the athlete is because you're training for an event, then that's going to be a great time to just say, look, I'm I'm gonna leave my stuff at home and I'm just going to reconnect with my loved ones and my family members, and I'm going to just deload myself.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Then when you're back from vacation, we just we start back.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: You we don't we're not starting from square one again.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: You haven't lost anything.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: If anything, you've gained because your body has now rehabbed itself, you've recovered well, you're you're mentally rejuvenated, you've had time to connect with family and just ha have some nice memories, and then you get you get back to work.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that that that particular one is going to be subject to the type of personality that you have, the type of personality that the athlete has.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: So but those are my three, I think, top uh time periods where I think it's great to come off the plan and uh not not worry that it's going to, you know, somehow derail your progress and keep you from moving forward.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I think too having some even if you're training for something, but you know, if having a vacation situation, I mean it may depend on where you're at in your training plan, but you know, just scheduling that as your down week.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you can fit those times in, I think, even into a structured plan where you have no plan.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think as long as it's not like three weeks, like I took for my vacation, that would have been a little bit of a long period of time to have no plan.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's like we're going on a cruise for a week or um something like that, where it's like, oh, like that's gonna be hard to like do a bike or to swim, maybe there's a pool, but you know, you have to kind of like run around in circles on a track on the cruise ship, like maybe do some of that, but let's not do anything super structured, you know, just try to do some movement.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think that can be even within a training plan, as long as it's sort of you're placing that week on vacation as like a no plan week, sort of, if that makes sense, and that's your D load week.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I I think you're right.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I would add anything to that other than maybe obviously if you're you have no plan, maybe if you're injured, you know, I don't know.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like that might be a time.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have a, but then you kind of have a plan of how you're gonna like rehab, right?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe it becomes a different plan.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: But um, there may be like certain other scenarios, but I think I don't think I can think of any other times where you would have no plan, maybe in certain life circumstances, like pregnancy or something, maybe, but and those are like you know, different that's sort of it's sort of like different scenario.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, if you're kind of like entering a different life stage or something major has happened, maybe.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think I would agree with you there.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think every other point in time you would maybe have a plan, but the level of which the plan is structured may vary a little bit.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect, yeah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, like I don't think it's good if like I if you're going one right into another.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think people do this, like they're like, I'm gonna run two or three marathons a year.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that leaves you like very little time to have no structure, right?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're let's say you have one in April or May, and then another one, you know, in the fall, and then another one in December.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like that's a lot of marathons.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be too many for most people, but there's no time in there.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're right, going from like one right to another, right to an like really having very little downtime in between.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is a recipe for burnout.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think allowing yourself that time to, you know, decompress.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I only do generally one marathon a year.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the past few years I've only done one because it's just the level of dedication and things that I've had to sacrifice and give up to train every day and follow my plan because I have it so thought out, you know, week to week, I'm kind of very much thinking about it.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had, you know, it's all and all the thought I put into it and all the other things I'm doing to support it.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just so much.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: If I if I'm thinking now, like if I had to take in my like maybe a little bit of time easy and then had to start running again, like within a week, and then had to start a new training plan because I was gonna do Chicago or something like that, which would have meant I would have had to start training again right away.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: That would have been like I don't think I'm ready for it, right?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: I need some time to like decompress, to think about the race, to focus on something else that's not even the marathon for a while.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I the thought of do jumping into another marathon training plan is done, would I just don't know if I could I could do it, but I don't know if I would be as passionate about it, you know, because I would have just came off of this other.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's tempting sometimes.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are like, oh, I didn't have a good race, or well, maybe they did have a good race and they're like, I want to see if I can what I can do, or they've they've maybe they've thought about it and they're like, I wanna, this is what went wrong.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to try it again, you know, I wanna jump in and like do it differently, you know, since see what the outcome is.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had that go through my brain and I'm like, no, like just you need some time.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can think about that next year, you know.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's hard for people too, 'cause they wanna sometimes they're motivated, they wanna fix something they didn't do right or they wanna they wanna have it go differently and they you know, they want to jump in again.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you really need to allow yourself at least a week or two with no plan after a race.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um before jumping into something and having maybe then jumping into something a little less structured for a while before you then jump into another very structured plan.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's probably the recipe I would give people for longevity in the sport.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah I don't know if there's I mean I think if you don't have a plan in those scenarios, then every other scenario would be like you would have a plan, but the level of what you plan would change.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: If you if you were to look if if the listener was to look at my training peaks, they would be like, dude, you've always got a plan.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: You you never you never have like a downtime even after events.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the so how I would respond to that would be well each athlete kind of downloads and processes things differently.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll say that uh I like the way that that you described it.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's like there's always a plan but the specificity within the plan may be may be different and may be relaxed.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that falls in line with how I approach my own personal training.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I like having the plan.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: I like knowing what I'm doing from day to day.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: The specificity in in that block of training maybe gets relaxed or I get to focus on something that I know that there is a there's a hole in my fitness and so that's something that I say well you know I don't really have anything going on right now but there's something that I can work on.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I may focus on that for a little bit.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: But you know for instance I'll say you know hey I'm gonna go for a two hour gravel bike ride.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: Most people I think many people would say well you know that's still two hours on the bike but for me it's two hours of alone time with with with my own thoughts and my own emotions and I can sit there and I can process things and think through things and that's just the environment in which you know I I tend to uh I don't want to say perform best in but I I operate best in it.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't I don't really do well just kind of like sitting around or taking a class and say oh I'm gonna process how this race went I'd much rather just go for a bike ride and say okay you know now I'm kind of okay I'm out here this is great I'm reconnecting you know how did that race go?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: What you know this is something that that I could work on or I think this one worked really well.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think that I don't want people to think that you know oh we've got to uh you know block off that time where there's there's nothing on there because I need to process you really have to determine on how it is that you process things efficiently and effectively and you know go with that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: So not everybody's downtime is is going to look the same which is why you know we don't do the same things for every single athlete.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: We you know as a coach we we're coaching the athlete we're not coaching the plan and that's that's something that I like to reiterate to people it's like you have you have these coaches that are out there that say you know this is this is the training plan that's been tested and it's data driven kind of thing.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is proven to have performance results but a a lot of times I just say you know what but you that's not going to work for everybody.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: So coach the athlete don't just be dedicated to a particular method of of training and approach because it works because it doesn't necessarily work for everybody and your athlete is paying you to coach them not for you to coach them the same way that you coach somebody else so you know if you're an athlete that's out there and you're you've gone onto social media and you're trying to get advice and insight from from others it's like okay my race is over now what do I do you know sometimes that can be a little bit uh a little shady because I think everybody is so different that it's really hard to determine on what is the quote unquote optimal approach because I don't I don't think that there is one.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what makes this sport so interesting is that there's so many different ways to to do it and approach it and still get the same results or similar results.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it allows you to be creative and and dynamic and and flowing to a certain extent uh so that's one of the things that I just would highly encourage people to do is that you know sometimes you can you can feel free to come off of a plan but it doesn't mean that you're not planning.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know so I like I like the way that we've we've kind of described this as like okay the specificity is I think what the really the the key factor that you can tweak in order to give you the results that you want.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do the the results that I want may not be performance driven.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: The results that I want may be I need a mental break and so the specificity of my plan is going to drop but I still know what it is that I'm doing from day to day to me that's that's not a training plan.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's just structure.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: Structure to help you move forward.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah exactly it's more of a something to keep your fitness yes it's not like a structured plan but still a pl of a some some sort of plan.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know it's something I like I like to think about it in terms of like having a menu you know because you know one of the things that that I that I love working with you is that there's you you provide you give me a menu I know what it is that I'm going to be eating from from day to day because I know that if I don't have that plan then things can come off the rails really quickly.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's just like okay now what am I going to have everybody's had this conversation.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: If if you if you live with somebody else and you have a significant other you're just like what do you want for dinner?
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean if if you've ever had that conversation that that convers will will perpetuate until it you wind up just having a bowl of cereal because you never figured out what it is that you want.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I mean I guess if you're using that analogy like you're like the plan I give like Q for instance is it's fairly structured because it's all in there, you know, but there is a little bit of freedom probably.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean like when I'm working with someone there might be like a very structured plan like this is what they're eating pretty much I don't do that.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't love that though because there is no freedom and with eating sometimes it's a little different than training but um versus like maybe an another plan I might create is like oh well here's some ideas for meals you can choose like these three you know meals or something like that where it's like and I'll do that in training peaks sometimes I'll say I have put it in there where I've had workouts that they could do and they could kind of choose your destiny.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, choose your option and there's like three in there.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe just to so there's not a bunch of red I might like go in and delete if they don't do it or something.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: But like I will I have done that before where it's like okay there's three different things I don't want you to do all three and then you know maybe I put a note in there and there's something that I mentioned to them.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: But there are three options for you two options you know maybe three is too many but choose what you want like do you want to do the strength or the cardio or do you want to do a a workout or like you know but there's like a few options so maybe they choose one that they feel like doing and so you're giving them some flexibility too.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's some similar in that way to a meal plan where it's maybe like here or here's just like the parameters of I want you to have protein carbs and healthy fat in this you know here are some examples you know you kind of work with that and create something.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's something like some similar in that sense.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas when someone's really dialed in on a goal like maybe weight loss or or performance the structure of the meal plan may be very much more specific.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess you could use that analogy.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: I like that you brought that up because it's it's like as when we were kids you had these books it was like a choose your own adventure book.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like if if the main if you want the main character to do this next go to this page and read and start reading from here or you go this way.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I I like that that kind of functionality within the training plan to where you say okay here's here's two here's two workouts that you can pick for this particular day.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: Pick one and then in the very next day I'll say based on what you picked yesterday this is these are the options that you now have available to you.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I still kind of keep those guardrails that are in place but there's still some semblance of choice that's there.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've I just I'm working on a plan right now for an athlete where I have that kind of functionality that's built into it where there's there's one day within the training plan where there's like a group ride or they can opt to do a more structured like trainer session or you know if because it it gives them the option it's like well if I can't attend the group ride then I know that I do have something else that I can do.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: But they have that choice on what it is that they want they want to take on.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Is there going to be any kind of specificity loss in their performance if they choose one or the other I think it's very very minimal.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes those group rides are I mean I guess you just never know what you're gonna get from my experience doing group rides it's like you have a chill ride or everybody wants to go fast and you just don't want to be left behind.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it run like some of the group runs maybe like that too actually but yeah which is why it's hard to do when you have a very structured plan where you're trying to achieve something but when it's flexible then if you do a group ride that's a little harder, you know, then it's okay because maybe the next day you take it easier but it's not going to set, you know, totally kind of not totally derail the plan, but just sort of make it harder to do that next quality session or something like that.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah I do that I actually now that I'm thinking about it I do that sort of thing sort of often it'll be like yeah have uh that same athlete I was mentioning oh there's uh either do a CrossFit one or a run or something like that.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then based off what she's doing yeah it might change the other workouts the rest of the week.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes um the CrossFit workouts themselves don't make sense to be doing.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like some of the ones are good for someone who, you know, but and it's hard because you don't know until the week before and so I kind of leave it open for her to pick which ones she thinks are most appropriate but she's supposed to like tell me what give me an idea of what she's doing.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it gives a yeah I love that flexibility um in the plan and then there's that option to opt out and there's another option if that um that you know first thing doesn't work out.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: So and I think people like that.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: They I I personally do.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I kind of do that in some ways for myself when I'm putting in um at least when I go in and if it's like I'm not feeling it like this next month or so it's it's nice to be able to be like I didn't really feel great today.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna see how I feel tomorrow but it if I need to run only 30 minutes instead of 45, I'm gonna only run 30 minutes because maybe I'm just listening to my body and I don't feel like this pressure to to get a certain mileage and um or you know really any mileage at all because I'm just focusing on minutes based running right now for the most part.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have an idea of what my mileage is but I'm just with the heat I've decided I'm gonna do that.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah it's just kind of having that flexibility even for myself it's just nice.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice to be able to have something in there but just know that I don't have to do it exactly as it's in there and there's no pressure, you know there's a freedom and I I like I I need that personally and I think a lot of athletes do.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe not everyone but I think a lot of people do kind of need having that structure and then having those periods of times time where there's a little more freedom to maybe even listen to how they're feeling or adjust things as needed.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you can build that level of freedom within a structured plan as well.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: So uh you know for instance one way that that I do that is let's say I give an athlete a bike workout and you know I can either give them the intervals that I want them to do.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's like okay we're doing you know four four by four by ten minutes or whatever.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: So out of that total duration I know how much zone three work I want them doing how much zone four how much zone two I I know kind of the distribution.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: Then there are times where I just give the athletes like look I want you to do this number of total minutes in this zone and then I allow them the option to determine what those intervals are going to be and they'll say okay you know I'm just gonna go ahead I'm gonna split this up based on how they're feeling so if they're if they're feeling good maybe the intervals are a little bit longer.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: If they're not feeling all that good then they shorten the intervals we're still getting the same uh exposure on aggregate to a particular level of intensity but I allow them the option to pick how they get there.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: I just want them to get to a particular point but they choose the path and how it's structured.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um that doesn't work with everybody but it does it it is one way to to approach it um to where you know you still have the coach guiding the athlete but allow the athlete to kind of pick how they're gonna structure it based on how they're feeling because I don't know how the athlete feels at that particular moment.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: I the intervals that I may have given them may not be appropriate for how they're feeling they could have had a super stressful day at work didn't sleep very well that night and I programmed that workout you know three days before that and I had no idea.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it does allow for a little bit more uh dynamic movement within within the plan and have it be more appropriate uh given where they are right then and there.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I could see that like in the even in a structured plan having sometimes nice having a little bit of freedom or something to be able to adjust have the athlete be able to adjust a little bit.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just figuring that out for each individual athlete how much you know some some people may may not like that and some people may really like that in and so it's just trying to kind of figure each individual person out and what's works best.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah um I think that makes sense too I'm trying to think if I with running if I I mean I would say sometimes I'll do like more like it's up to them like in a fart fart like type of situation.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was about to say.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I want you to kind of you weave in and out a little bit of fast to easy and they're kind of more up to the intervals in which they do it might be power poles or some sort of other land based marker or something.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like really sort of a I just want you to move you know get your heart rate up a little bit and move and and you know go from you know something a little more fast to easy but it's not structured.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those are fun because again the athlete kind of gets to decide.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's probably the running example I would give for that you know maybe where it's something like sometimes I'll do like okay I want you to do some race pace stuff.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can either do it in the middle of the run or at the end.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're doing like a a a run like you can either do it where you warm up and you do that and then you kind of like cool down a little bit or you can do it more of a progression run where you sort of do it easy and then that 20 minutes at tempo race pace is at the end.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there may be something similar where they can kind of decide in what point they want to do it.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah that might be that might be a good approach like if if you're not really actively training for a race but you want to have some level of intensity within your within the plan that you are following or the structure that you're executing now that might be a great way to program uh your weekly sessions and say look these are the total number of minutes that I need to that I need to have some intensity and then I can just pick and choose but maybe when it comes time to like okay now we need that specificity we need to focus because we're training for performance and there's a particular event that we want to work on maybe that's when you settle in it's like okay now I want the intervals already programmed in I just want to execute I don't want to have to think about it.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's a time and place for it.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't want people to think that there's this this binary decision that they have to make it's like okay is there a plan or a no plan I think that there is a way to weave these these characteristics together and and create and create no plan within a plan.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: I th I think that that's kind of the the most the most uh descriptive way that I can that I can explain it.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah or if you're uh in between races and you but I think that you can still have some structure some something in there to kind of help you stay fit and get in some different you know heart rate zones or something but you don't maybe have it programmed into your watch so it's very specific.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like oh I'm gonna um do this as you f see fit.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like okay I'm gonna do a longer interview or shorter interval or part like where I just kind of like I do I run I have a specific place I go and then that on my way back home it's it's on a a paved road and it's um power poles.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't even think those power poles are spaced quite evenly.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll do two power poles lengths at a time sometimes I'll just go from power pole to power pole and I'll just kind of bring my pace up and just to try to get my legs moving a little faster maybe you know just almost like strides in a way within the run.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes I'll do it a little longer.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah I mean that's that's something like that can be as simple as what we're talking about just like getting that intensity but it's not such a specific thing but you're still doing something in the plan.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when we talk about things there's no it's like there's a lot of in between a lot of like gray in between there's no like black and white it's not like you either have a plan or you don't have a plan.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean there are times where you maybe have a plan and times you don't have a plan but for the most part that's the no plan piece is pretty small amount of time set to only those per specific things of like after race vacations and maybe holidays other than maybe specific life situations.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: So uh otherwise I think you're on some sort of plan, whether it's a structured training plan or just like an outline some sort of what you're going to be doing.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's kind of the gist of what we're talking about.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: Try to think if there's anything I would add to what we've discussed.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think I feel like we've covered it well.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think we've covered it pretty well so we'll go ahead and we'll we'll wrap this thing up.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I want to thank you guys for joining us in this episode of the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: And this has been uh what I say episode 108 I think is is what the episode was uh so yeah when when to plan when not to plan or when to not plan within a plan.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: So there's all kinds of different ways to to go about doing this.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: But uh we hope that this episode has helped you uh and in your plans or whether it's convinced you that hey maybe I don't need a plan right now and give myself a little bit of a break.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: But if this has resonated with you uh I hope that you will please consider leaving a comment and a review or share the episode with somebody else uh those are greatly appreciated we do not have sponsors we do not have ads for this podcast because we wanted to come to you unconnected uh to anybody else and so we're not trying to sell you anything we just wanted to uh provide some information that we think is valuable to help you along in your journey and leaving these comments and reviews is what helps uh expand the reach of the podcast so people so other people can find us uh and uh we can move this thing forward so we thank you guys for so much if you've if you've left a comment and review thank you for it uh if you haven't we hope that you'll just consider just taking just a few seconds just to to drop a comment and click on a star or two so those are greatly appreciated.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we also have the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast group it's a private group within Facebook uh that is an area that we created from the first episode it's a place where you can connect with other listeners you can see some additional content from us it allows us to have direct connection with our listeners I know that I just we just created a poll that's in there so we hope that you'll just go in just look for it it's the endurance athlete journey podcast group you answer one simple question it'll let you right on in uh we were looking for some feedback on whether you guys have enjoyed our training specific episodes where each one of us has come to you in solo episodes talking about you know how our you know our preparation for a particular event and you followed us followed us along on that journey.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: So please go and if you've enjoyed those episodes go to the group click on your on your vote within the poll and it'll let us know if we should continue doing those those types of episodes going forward.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because we are not only are we coaches and podcast hosts but we are athletes as well and we we love to train we love to race and if you find those episodes helpful we'd like to share share our journeys with you um uh like I said we are both active coaches so if you are looking for someone to help you uh form a plan uh or just take over control of of your training and all you have to then do is just execute and just move forward.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: You're tired of looking up workouts you're tired of trying to come up with chat GPT prompts to to generate a training plan and you look for somebody that has a little bit more experience and will tailor something to you in your life we hope that you will consider one of us as your coaches you can go to fuel the number two run dot com if you'd like to reach out to Coach Katie.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: She does dietetics for all sports as well as run specific plans and run specific coaching.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you're interested in multi sport or single sport training plans and one-on-one coaching you can go to tabula rasseracing.com and you can reach out to me Coach Justin we're both happy to talk with you on how we can help you along in your journey I know that both of our websites have a plethora of information we have all kinds of other free resources articles video series that we've got out there uh to help you along and provide some information for you so please take advantage of those resources and check them out and then reach out to us if we can help you in any way.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: I can't think of anything else so this has been episode uh 108 of the Endurance Athlete journey podcast I've been your host coach Justin along with Coach Katie thank you guys for joining us and we'll see you again next week.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: Bye bye that wraps up today's episode of the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: Endurance sports have a way of teaching us patience, humility and resilience lessons that carry far beyond the workout.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_02: Progress in endurance sports doesn't come from shortcuts.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_02: It comes from consistency, discipline and doing the work when it's not glamorous.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: Wherever you are on your endurance journey keep trusting the process and honoring the work you put in each day.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_02: If today's episode resonated please subscribe leave a review and share it with someone to help on their endurance journey.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to join the conversation on our social sites to help build and foster a community where we all learn and support one another.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: We'll be back with more stories and insights from Coach Justin and Katie.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: Until then visit the podcast website at the endurance athlete journey dot buzzsprout dot com for more episodes from the endurance athlete journey podcast.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: Have questions or comments about the podcast feel free to send us an email at the endurance athlete journey at gmail dot com for all things coaching visit coachkatie at fuel the number two run dot com and coachjustin at tabulaasta.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_02: Again thank you for listening to the endurance athlete journey podcast and remember to find joy in the journey