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Kris Blackmon - Beyond campaigns: partner marketing unlocked · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we dive deep into the mysteries and the secrets of partnerships in the channel.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Michelle, I'm head of marketing at Chanex, and I'll be your host for today.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really happy to sit down with Chris Blackman, Global Director of Partner Marketing at Av Point and the owner of the coolest home office I've ever seen.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, I really appreciate you joining.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: How's your week been so far?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's been fantastic, Michelle.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Productive and happy.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to hear that.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Were you at RSA, by the way?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, I wasn't.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I had a big team there, but I wasn't.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: We just had um a debrief call with them actually walking, they were walking the show floor and taking videos and pictures of all of the really cool booths to get some inspiration for some upcoming events for us later on this year.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a fun call.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: They go all out at RSA.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, those booths, man, they're immersive experiences.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen anything like it.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I come from a like a pretty conservative industry space in the energy uh world.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought I'd saw I'd seen like large booths and big stands.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: This was like nothing I've ever seen.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was blown away.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: It really made me rethink how innovative and creative I should try to be.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a good thing.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was almost like a theme park.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Unreal.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one company had an entire wrestling arena on the flora.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen anything like it.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the question: Do you remember the name of the company?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh honestly, I do, but that's an occupational hazard seeing as I speak to cybersecurity companies basically every day of every week.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right, that's actually a good point.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Remembering these companies, like being memorable beyond your presentation, that's something we marketeers really uh really also need to focus on.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love it.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I thought it was incredible.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not what we're here to talk about today.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're here to talk about all things partner marketing.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And to kick off, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and your work at AppPoint?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I came into the channel.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I am a journalist by trade.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've been in the channel a while, you might remember the old trade magazine, The VAR Guy.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I came in as editor-in-chief of The Var Guy.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then when Penton was acquired by Informa, I came on as senior director of content for channel futures and the channel partners trade shows.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And along with those responsibilities, about 18 months in, I was tasked with building the MSP 501 community.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So MSP 501 had been a ranking list for years and years and years, but we wanted to make it an actual community that was revenue generating, but also um was just designed to bring MSPs together, peer learning, um, connections, networking, things like that.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a ton of fun.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I left in 2020 and became a consultant for a few years working with JS Group, Janet Shines Shop, um, and then made my way to Avpoint.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been a couple of years here now, and we are full steam ahead on so many different initiatives.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's just such a good time.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, if I look at your background, you've basically had every possible vantage point from which you've watched the channel evolve.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: The journalism side of things, events consulting, now obviously global partner marketing leadership.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say that generally evolution is pretty gradual.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that really changed with the advent of AI.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're currently in a phase where everything seems to be happening at light speed from tech to go to market to channel program design.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious what patterns you're seeing in the channel that feel really innovative instead of just like a new coat of paint on old playbooks.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, AI, you're right, is the name of the game.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And as we're starting to come in to an age of where AI is a little bit more mature, right?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just chat GPT these days.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing a lot of uses of AI within partner programs, which that's partner programs are near and dear to my heart.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I work in and out of them every single day.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: But we're seeing a lot of AI come in to help partners navigate through, you know, what their next steps should be, or to tell partner managers here's where your partners are pulling back, here's where they're leaning in, um, here's how to guide them through that partner lifecycle journey.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's been really cool to see.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: At AFPoint, um, we've got some initiatives going on around in-house built AI, of course.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got um we've got our own LLM, we've got uh tools being developed for um channel activation.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an exciting time to be around AI for sure.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, so you're you're you use home-built LLM for internal AI tooling.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Chat A V P T, and it will answer any questions that you might have about AvPoint.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that is uploaded into our central repository becomes there's a chat bot that will mine all of these internal files and just get you very specific answers to any questions you might have.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's fantastic.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's a really smart move, especially as a cybersecurity organization, to build this stuff in-house because no matter what kind of walls you have in place, using an external LLM to host and parse your kind of confidential company data, you're always opening yourself up to potential challenges and threats in the future.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So having that in-house and walled off, that makes a lot of sense.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder how many organizations actually do this because obviously it is a big effort to build these in-house LLMs and to maintain them.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I mean, it's certainly a growing number, but I will say we are a big copilot shop as well.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, AftPoint, um, you know, one of its biggest value propositions is securing in Microsoft environments for copilot deployment.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so way back at the very beginning launch of Copilot, our research and development team, our AI team, everyone spent a solid, it must have been 18 months, um, preparing our internal environment, classifying our data, getting rid of you know redundant and trivial data, making sure you know security permissions were all aligned and kosher.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was a it was a big overhaul, um, but it did give us some real hands-on opportunity to learn how to do this for our clients.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so every time we do this now, it gets faster and more accurate because we were our first customer.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's almost like hitting two birds with one stone, right?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or even drinking your own champagne because you're building this for yourself and taking those learnings in.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a phenomenal approach of basically thinking outside the box.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And again, right, a lesson for every single company struggling with this.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, build for yourself while you're building for others and learn from both sides.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's super advice.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: I just briefly want to switch gears to partner marketing.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: One, because that's obviously your purview, but also because as a marketer, I find that incredibly fascinating, especially in the channel.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I sometimes hear the misconception that channel marketing is really about running and distributing campaigns, but we know that that it goes far beyond that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: In your day-to-day, what partner marketing activities do you prioritize when it comes to creating real value?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I tend to not look, you know, my my title is um partner marketing, but I tend to look at it more as channel GTM, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing is one piece of that puzzle.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have my fingers in partner enablement, in the partner program, product marketing, and to and through partner marketing.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So when you bring all of those different elements together, then all of a sudden you've got kind of a cohesive machine to activate and engage partners.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: You really can't have one without the other, right?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I can run a campaign all day long, but if I don't have a solid partner program to activate those partners whenever they come into our ecosystem, then what's the point?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't have the sales enablement ready to, you know, help them go out to market, then what's the point?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really all interconnected.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why at AFPoint, we tend to take a more holistic view of it, very much not siloed at my organization at all.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the right approach also because especially when you look at something like product marketing, you need to have that value proposition nailed down to effectively send it through to partners.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: It'll increase engagement there.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing I do wonder is how do you then prioritize and keep focus when all these roles kind of start to blend together?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, we've got a great ELT that, you know, sets our targets for us.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: It is really imperative for us to work hand in hand with our sales teams to make sure that we're supporting their KPIs, to make sure that we're supporting their strategic imperatives.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then conversely, for them to be able to come to us and say, you know, here's what, here's the talk track I need, or this campaign you did really resonated.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's, you know, iterate upon that.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So working hand in hand there.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: We do have, so I, you know, I have a global role, which makes it a lot easier for me to have all these different fun projects.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: But we do have some top-notch regional teams all around the world that have more specific narrow focuses.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And they're the ones that really, really make our marketing campaigns sing.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we can come up with it at a global level, but then it's the field teams that have to localize it, make sure it resonates with their local markets.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're the ones that have to go in and execute it and are held accountable for all these sometimes incredibly high metrics.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I can come up with the ideas and the assets and link it all together all day long, but they're the wizards in the field that really are the ones that make those campaigns saying.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the execution arm of all our businesses is so incredibly important of actually activating these messages so that they actually resonate with the end customer.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think you raise a couple of great points there.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: One of them obviously being that the connection with sales has to be inherent.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I really feel like, and I keep I keep reiterating this because it's becoming more prevalent, but still some companies don't really understand this, and that's that sales and marketing are just two sides of the same coin.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're different phases in the process, but we should all be aligned on the goals that we're trying to achieve.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one really important thing there is that if you talk about a strong ELT, you have a clear guidance on the outcomes you want to achieve, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then working backwards from there is much easier and also makes it easier to understand, hey, how do I map out all these different marketing projects that I have going on simultaneously and where do I need to prioritize?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you look at field marketing teams as well, if they understand what outcome needs to be achieved, then their role in that process also becomes clearer.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really something to live by, is really working backwards from outcomes and then splitting it out over all these teams, making sure you're all pointed in the same direction.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it helps us because we're a publicly traded company, right?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to go out into the world and say what our strategic priorities are.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like, you know, it changes day to day as it does sometimes in a startup or a scale-up, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we've got our our roadmap going to 2030.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and of course, we, you know, pivot within that how we're going to achieve those goals.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: But all in all, we're all pointed in the same direction, which helps.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great to hear.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things you mentioned was that your fingers are also in the partner program.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if I recall correctly, at Av point, one of your first major projects was redesigning this partner program.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: What led you to making that decision?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: What was the what was the catalyst for change?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we realized the V1 of our program.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was really innovative when we came out with it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: But you know how fast the channel changes, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: How fast technology evolves.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so we took a step back a couple of years ago and said, you know, okay, does it support all of our regions equally?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Does it support partner types equally?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is it flexible enough to cover all the different ways that partners procure equally?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer to that was no, because it was a traditional tiered um met where benefits were awarded based on revenue.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that was pretty much it, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: As I mean, everyone's well familiar with that partner program.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we realized that what we were looking at when we saw um aligning benefits to revenue was a lagging indicator.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't know anything really that went into that sale.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, yes, we could track whether they were taking certifications and, you know, things like that, but we wanted to reward partners that were engaged throughout the life cycle of their relationship with Avpoint.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so we took a step back and eventually decided on a points based program, which is becoming, you know, a lot more prevalent in the channel now.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um when we first came up with this, you know, a couple of years ago, it wasn't nearly as popular as it is now, but it I think is becoming kind of the new norm, I think, in the channel and will become more so over the next few years.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so we took a step back and we said, okay, we want to do a points program.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: What does this look like?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it took us a solid 18 months from that first idea to designing the program, running the pilot, tweaking the program.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we launched it in summer of last year, and it's been extremely effective for us.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's awesome news.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Just out of curiosity, what have been some of the most positive highlights around the launch of this redesign program?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: What are you seeing now?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's giving us the ability to really track each touch point with a partner that leads up to that revenue generation.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we know if they're downloading co-marketing at scale, we know if they're taking micro trainings, we know, you know, if they are advertising us on their website, if they're leaving product reviews.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's really a way for us to identify ways that partners can become more engaged with us and then pull those levers to make sure that we're establishing a really strong, healthy relationship that drives towards that mutual value of those first deals.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we completely also redesigned our partner portal, and that is a continuing effort for sure.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: That that work will never stop.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: But points programs can be kind of complex.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that was one of the hurdles that we had to overcome.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: How do we make this understandable to our partners?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And having that good UI was definitely a big, big part of redesigning this program.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great point.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think you raise an interesting angle here that like moving away from just the kind of the resale revenue side of things, um, you lose focus on the fact that partnerships are partnerships.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's about long-term engagement, it's about long-term potential.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering what tips would you have for other channel execs that are thinking about redoing their partner programs away from this revenue focus so that they can bake in this long-term potential and these real relationships at the core.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I would say identify those different touch points that really strengthen the relationship mutually.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do I mean by that?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you want to turn partners into advocates, right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not just there to sign on the dotted line and, you know, check you later.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: You want to make sure that, you know, channel is a small world and partners talk.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have a solid relationship with a partner, they're gonna talk about that out into the industry with the rest of the channel partners that they know.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very cooperative space amongst channel partners and channel partners talk.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so you want to turn those partners into advocates.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So try to identify those touch points.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the same time, what are ways that you can improve the partner experience for your MSP or your SI or your reseller?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like to make enablement easier to consume, to make co-marketing easier to deploy and track, um, you know, to be able to reward them for things like lead generation and, you know, advancing leads and, you know, things like this, things that they're doing anyway, but now you have visibility into it and you're able to say, hey, you know, way to go.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is a big value add for Av point.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna reward you for that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I hear you.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a cheeky question for you then.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there are some partners who are just like, I don't want all this noise.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to focus on on revenue, don't bother me with the rest.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: How do you deal with partners like that?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at the end of the day, we can't force them to engage with the program.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um at the end of the day, you know, if they don't want those benefits that come with increased engagement, then that's definitely their prerogative.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, half-point, we've got over 5,000 partners worldwide.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we can't chase after every single one of them individually, but we really do try to dive into our data to see, you know, okay, which partner cohorts are not engaged with us and what are the levers we can pull to change that?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: It really all comes down to the data.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got that impeccable clean data hygiene and, you know, you're measuring the right metrics and you've got that visibility into everything that goes into that deal, then it's easier to say, you know what, this other cohort of partners that do this additional certification, their deal sizes are typically on average X percent larger.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you do engage with a campaign in a box, our research shows, our data shows that you turn over X number more deals.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just, you know, coming back to the data, being able to identify those cohorts who aren't engaged and trying to figure out which levers to pull to get them there.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm I'm trying to push for us to change the name cohort analysis to FOMO analysis, but it's not really sticking yet.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I really think that's a great point.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're basically not just looking at uh at what great looks like, but why, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's so important to be able to translate that to the partners who might not yet be bought into this proposition or might be more traditional to really make them understand that this is mutual lift.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Partner revenue increase and partner engagement increase, partner potential increase, it matters for both parties, vendors and partners, and and customers, of course, as well.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's such a smart approach uh to take.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I do think there's an underlying theme in everything you've said so far that also aligns with what I'm hearing more broadly in the in the industry, and it points back to real engagement at scale.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about the next few years of partner marketing, and I realize that with AI, it could be the next few weeks of partner marketing.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's going to happen, but let's say the next few years of partner marketing, what do you believe will define the vendors who get it right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: The ones who figure out the black box of through partner marketing.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: That is my number one um goal.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's my number one wish that I would ask of a genie in a bottle.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because to deploy a marketing campaign through a partner, you know, help them go out into their local markets and generate leads and close business, but you don't have any visibility really into the metrics and the KPIs that that partner is generating until you get to the deal reg, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So there are a few things that we do within our partner program today that are designed to encourage partners to give us that visibility.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I think with the advent of AI tools and automation and as these portals become more and more sophisticated, I think over the next few years, we're gonna have to figure out how to um unveil again that black box of through partner marketing.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's gonna be a game changer.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I fully agree.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: And again, as someone who is in marketing and loves marketing, uh, we're seeing some interesting changes in this space.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very curious to see where this goes.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Before I ask you for some final words of wisdom, we always ask our guests to nominate the next guest on this podcast.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So who do you think we should have next?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I put some thought into this, and you know, there were a ton of different vendors and partners that came to mind, but I'm really active in GTIA, which, if your listeners are familiar, used to be part of CompTIA, spun off about 18 months ago into a pure nonprofit association that is dedicated towards helping both vendors and partners succeed in the channel.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And when they spun off the association part of CompTIA, they brought in the channel legend, Dan Wensley, to be CEO and to kind of help guide that ship.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he has been doing some amazing things over there, taking his 30, 40 years of business leadership in the channel and really bringing it to bear for a nonprofit.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a lot of fun to watch.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you should talk to Dan.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Fascinating.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll definitely dial up the charm and see if I can butter him up to come on the podcast.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: That would be absolutely amazing.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, to wrap this up, do you have any final insights, tips, or tricks or thoughts that you'd like to share with our audience?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that when it comes to engaging and activating a partner, it's Really easy to get laser focused on one or two things, right?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's either, you know, this one big marketing campaign or this one spiff that you're running to help you sell this one SKU, but you have to be able to take a step back and you know, look at the market, look at, you know, your partner base and say holistically, what is it that we need to get this partner activated?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you're able to take that holistic view of it, then I think it becomes a lot easier to identify exactly what levers you do need to pull in those more narrow focuses in order to engage and activate your partner ecosystem.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I fully agree.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the funnel by definition starts wide and goes narrow, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a fantastic advice.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and taking the time to speak with me.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you, dear listeners, thank you for tuning in, and we'll see you at the next episode.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Chris.