Latest / JM3 Lacrosse Podcast / JM3 Lacrosse Podcast, Season 7, Ep. 1 - PLL Chaos Midfielder Chad Palumbo

Transcript

JM3 Lacrosse Podcast, Season 7, Ep. 1 - PLL Chaos Midfielder Chad Palumbo · JM3 Lacrosse Podcast

• Jamie speaking: This is the JM three Lacrosse Podcast conversations about playing, coaching, and learning the game differently. From player development and skill acquisition to the ideas shaping the future of lacrosse. This is JM three. Jamie Munro: How's going, everybody? Welcome to the JM3 Lacrosse podcast. Very fired up to have Chad Palumbo of the Carolina Chaos and the Princeton Tigers on the podcast. Chad, how's it going, man? So fired up to have you on. Chad Palumbo: Yeah, it's it's going great. I'm happy to be on and and talk some across. Jamie Munro: But you had maybe the sickest spring and summer of anyone I know. Chad Palumbo: Yeah, it was I honestly never couldn't have dreamed of having a better string of a couple months. So, you know, unfortunately all good things come to an end, so summer's winding down here. But looking back on it I'm pretty grateful. Jamie Munro: Hey, talk to me about let's talk a little Princeton lacrosse first. one of the things that I always just admired about the Princeton guys is just the fact that, and I know this has been written about, but they're everyone's like a lax rat. Everybody just loves lacrosse. I mean, you and I have talked a lot of lacrosse over the years. I don't think we ever get tired of it. how much do you think that actually matters in the culture of your team to be able to Win big. Chad Palumbo: A ton. I mean specifically like I mean I'm thinking like our the way our locker room is set up. It's like O side and D side. And specifically when I think about that offensive side I mean, it was like it was like you almost like built up over the course of a year, you'd go in, you know, it was the same pockets of conversation happening throughout the year. And it felt like it honestly, like Coach Madelon says, like the year is like one big build to the end of the year to May. Then you wanna peek in May. And it felt like that was mirrored in our conversations, 'cause it was like, you know, we'd start the year And like dudes be in there like I I think it's a big part of it is like recruiting recruiting lax rats, like you said. Like we're in there like talking everything lacrosse, talking like our favorite players, our favorite moments, highlight tapes, like this, that, and the other. and then as the year goes on, it slowly kind of like evolves into these conversations about like applying stuff on field and like what the next week is gonna look like when we play Cornell and their style of defense and like how is this gonna slot into that and honestly it's it's funny like by the end of the year like by playoffs you could have gone to the locker room at any point in the day and there would have been you know more than a handful of guys that are there Like people get there early, just hang out and talk shop. Like they'll bring their lunch to the locker room just to sit with the boys and shoot the shit about X, Y, or Z, lacrosse stuff. and then like you have guys that'll like, you know, you'll get your extra reps after practice and then, you know, you'll hang out and like somebody make you a plate of dinner and you'll just sit in the locker room and talk lacrosse and then the conversational move to the showers and you'll keep talking lacrosse. And then you'll walk out of the showers and talk on the way to the car and then drive to dinner. But honestly, I think like that made us like when I think about our offense, I think about like our chemistry built throughout the year. And I think so much of that was based on those conversations we had in the locker room. I think that's a really underrated important aspect of a team. because we'd I'm just thinking about like the times like Jamie Munro: Give me an example of a conversation that, like, you know, was dreamt up in the locker room or whatever, and then it turned into a big play. Chad Palumbo: Yeah, well I'm trying to think of something that applied that applied to like directly on field that I can think of. like for Jamie Munro: Pin seals. Chad Palumbo: example like man up. Like we talked about yeah, well yeah, spin seals for sure. But we talked about I love I love man up. I don't know, it's like always been like my favorite thing to do. It's my favorite part of practice and I love thinking about it. And we coach Mitch believes in like the hive mind. So people he would like want people to like come up with stuff, send them stuff and like whatever. And we would try to apply it and see if it worked or not. And so we would sit in the locker room and I'd like I think I might even have some videos on my phone. I hope I still have them of like us like drawing up plays in the locker room together on a whiteboard and like sending them to Mitch and like seeing if he likes them and like trying to apply them in practice. But there's we got this play cannot remember where we got it from. But we there was just like one example of it literally going from applying straight into the game is in the natty, we s I s I ended up scoring off this this play where it kicks around, I'm low, I'm low left, Dumpy's high left, and Kabiri's top center. And it goes from me to Dunfey to Kabiri. And Kabiri turns and throws a fake and spins around while Dunfey sets a slam seal for me. to catch and shoot. And it was like a low, it was like something we threw in for like we'll run our main plays, and if we get to low clock and we just want to get a sh a solid shot on Cage, we can run this real quick. and we ended up scoring on it in the Natty, and that's something that Yeah, because Jamie Munro: Is that the one where you like hitched like three or four times to come across the top? Chad Palumbo: Dunfey set a sick seal that w Corgan screaming his head off that it's a moving seal. It was not moving if you watch the replay. It was an unbelievable seal. Jamie Munro: Clean. Chad Palumbo: yeah, it was clean. And like that's like an example of something that just like came right on the field. And then like I can think specifically like with Dunfee, we talked two men every single day. So we would have these like, these like, I don't want to call them progressions because that that's too scripted and that's not what they were. But we'd we would talk about what we wanted to do and like go through like plays in our heads. Like we'd be like, all right, like like exactly like Jamie Munro: The various actions and then the various coverage solutions? Chad Palumbo: like like yeah, like set this set this pick for me, and then it'd be like, yo, do a flyby, set and up pick, and then like do a flyby up pick, and I'll go down, and then you slip it and I'll roll back to come back up and you set it for me go up. And like just like talking about those things with Dunfey over and over again. developed our chemistry exponentially. Like way more than just like being on the field and like just doing things. Like talking things and doing things helps you like s I like I understood how like I felt like I understand how Dunfy thinks about lacrosse as well as how he plays. So it help I feel like it helps me anticipate what he wants to see, what he wants to do, you know, etcetera. and I honestly think that's a huge a hu like you said, like Jamie Munro: How much on the lax rat side of things, how much like pickup did you guys play? Chad Palumbo: So we talked we talked about this a little bit. Like we played a bunch. this year was our best year pickup in my four years there. I think like when I first got there, we were first starting to play pickup. We'd have like our holiday tournament. and then like the next like I remember like my sophomore year, we started playing, like doing shoot like we had this little pickup net in our hallway in between locker room and the bathroom. we do these little shootouts before practice. Like we'd pull I'd pull up to practice two hours early just to like like I said, like eat lunch with the guys and then like before practice like it's like, yo, let's get our hands warm. Like do a little shootout. and it evolved over the four years to the point where like we'd be running like full on five by sessions, you know, a couple times a week probably. over the course of the year, depending on like, you know, if you know, if we had two games a week, maybe we didn't 'cause we wanted to like rest more. But if we had one game on a week and like especially over like a spring break or or something like that where we don't have class, like we'd be hammering five by. probably my favorite part about it was like we would obviously like a room a D one athletes, like it would get crazy competitive. But like getting the D guys involved, like Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: I think probably I w we like I like we have these funny conversations where I talk with some of the guys like how many goals do you think playing three by? Or like just having the net in the in the hallway like ended up scoring us like this year. Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: And it was like it's probably like ten or more. Like and like we Jamie Munro: I agree. Well, just the way you guys were so good at like playing with zero seconds decisions and getting the ball off the ground, your ground ball offense and in these pickup scenarios, it's just really all about ball movement. And for the listeners, what we're talking about when Chad Palumbo: A hundred I also think like Jamie Munro: we talk about pickup is small net games with tennis balls and no pads and no equipment. and oftentimes you play with a goalie stick. We play eight you know, over the years, Chad, you've played a lot. We've played a lot of pickup over the years and and it's it's I mean, wouldn't you say that pickup has been well, you tell me, what what has pickup been for you and your game? Chad Palumbo: Like you said, zero second decisions. I think it's been it's probably the number one I would have to imagine it's the number one thing that got me my BTB license, like we talked about. Being comfortable throwing BTBs and like and making zero second decisions with that. And then like two man and three man fluidity. Like my favorite Jamie Munro: And don't forget hitches. Chad Palumbo: and yes, and hitches. My favorite I think my favorite memory. Jamie Munro: Hitch game. For the listeners, when when Chad's talking about the BTB license, I always like to bring up the story, but when he was like a sophomore, I was doing a zoom with him and I was like, Hey, Chad, when are you gonna get your BTB license? He's like, What do you mean? I was like, Well, you know, basically some guys are allowed to throw BTBs. It's like they have a license, kind of like James Bond with a license to kill. But you can't get that license at practice. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: Once it gets revoked, you're kind of screwed. You told me you actually had your BTB. license revoked as a freshman or something, but you definitely got it back. Chad Palumbo: I didn't have I think I got our entire team's B T V license revoked my freshman Jamie Munro: Ha ha ha ha. Chad Palumbo: year. probably part of the reason I didn't see the field much that year. But you know, honestly like I l I think like some of my favorite memories and pickup are like when I'm when I first started playing and I'd be running like left I'd be running like a three man lefty side with like you and and Colin, the Colin Monroe who was listening, Jamie Munro: Yeah. Yep. Chad Palumbo: Jamie's son. and like those were my favorite memories 'cause like I would just be running around you guys played a lot more pickup than me at that point and it would be like you'd be like h like shooting pointers at me and like specifically you would be like, yo, like, I'm gonna come down the alley and throw this pump and then like do this and that and like just seeing I love I think I've learned to love like seeing how people think about lacrosse. Like and how they process things. But no, I absolutely love pickup. And I think it's was like a huge factor in my in my development since I started doing GM3 stuff. and I I'll be playing and it's a blast, frankly. Like it's Jamie Munro: It's a blast. Chad Palumbo: fun. It's just so freaking fun. I'll be playing it until I can't walk on it. Jamie Munro: Forever. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: I know. We've had some decent some decent games this summer, in fact. Some of the Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: OG games. with Chad Palumbo: The bad games. Jamie Munro: with you, Sours, BK, Jimmy. I mean, it's like off the charts. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: The the the level of the level of players and and also just like A, how fun it is, and B, like how creative you can be. I I remember at this summer I was like, Hey Chad, have you tried throwing a like around the world pump? Like you do a lot of backhand pumps and you're like, yeah, yeah. And and you like literally listen to me and then like one minute later you went underneath and like wrapped around a little bit around the world fake and walked right in and dunked it. It was so sick. Chad Palumbo: Yeah, yeah. Literally. I looked over to you right after that one too. That's the that's the best Jamie Munro: You did. It's the ultimate for experimentation. Chad Palumbo: part about pickup is the experimentation, is like the risk free or the I don't know if risk free is the right word. Jamie Munro: Low stakes. Chad Palumbo: Yeah, low stakes environment. Like I you can do anything in pickup. I've done some shit in pickup that if I didn't field people be like, What the what is he doing? But Jamie Munro: Thing is though, don't let's not let's not allow the listeners to think it's not competitive. I mean, at the end of the day, like you don't wanna Chad Palumbo: no, no. Jamie Munro: lose and go down to the loser's court, you know, like Chad Palumbo: It's it's one of those thing loser score it's brutal. It's one of those things where it's like as the game goes on, say we're playing game to seven, like it just gets more and more and more intense as it goes on. It's like in the beginning, like I might throw like a one hand between legs and Sarah's gonna be like, dude, what like what the like stop like one hand I'm like yeah. Jamie Munro: I know it's the worst when younger guys come in that are pretty good and they like don't move the ball and they don't play defense and they don't Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: go that hard on ground balls and you look it over it like Michael Sowers just like sprinting after a loose ball to basically Chad Palumbo: we meet sours almost dropped the gloves multiple times this summer. Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: That happens. the pickup's huge. I think my something we talk about all the time, like me Sowers and BK about pickup is shooting on a box goalie too. I think that Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: has honestly helped my like scoring ability a ton. And like when we get like we have a box goalie who's A couple what is it? He's what's Brant there for a month in the summer and then in our winter session in Del Rey, he's there for whatever it is, the week or so. Jamie Munro: Fully padded box goalie in an NLL knit and an NLL net on Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: the winner's court. You always so you can like really shoot. Chad Palumbo: And you can shoot from the outside. That's why it sucks to move down for the winner's court more than anything, is you don't get to play on the box goalie. Jamie Munro: You don't get the box goalie. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. but I absolutely love like I think that shooting on a box goalie is like if I could do that, I wish I could like pad up. I wish I had like a little brother I could pad up and throw him in a box net. 'Cause like that is like my favorite way to shoot. Jamie Munro: You gotta get Whitney in there, man. Chad Palumbo: I trust me, Jamie, I I tried for a long time. Jamie Munro: For the listeners, his sister's a goalie, but she was never gonna put on the box equipment, I'm sure. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. No, never. Jamie Munro: for but but like the thing about pickup that people need to understand, everybody knows that box lacrosse is like a developer of skill, right? Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: Everybody knows that the constraints of that game have created like honestly, the most skilled players in the world, you know, they're they're all one-handed because you can only score. you know, you Can only score on one side basically, and you don't need to be able to go to the other side. You can't play two sides at the same time. But pickup is box, it's just box without the physicality, which allows you to like, you know, it's like the pickup hoops version of boxed across where you can like play for hours and not get beaten up and like literally learn how to do every type of skill. The one thing I think we we needed to do more of this summer, though, Chatty, was we probably should have done a little bit more I'll even pick up. Chad Palumbo: Why do you say that? Jamie Munro: Because you can learn if you play four on four, you can end up learning way more two-man game. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: like live. I mean, you get it as you you know, you and me playing lefty side, it's usually a two-on-two, anyways, but it's always like a switch. And so, like when you start playing four-on-four pickup, you you know, just like any other anything else, the the the more different looks we can give ourselves, the better, the better people are gonna get. Chad Palumbo: Totally. Well I think that's like when some of the that's when like some of the constraints kinda come into play more in my mind. Like either like making the f like the defense have to play the ball so they can't sink in or making have to like go over picks, they can't learn how to switch picks. Like I feel like you can manufacture the same looks through constraints as you could if i if you if you were doing the all even stuff too. 'Cause the problem the problem the nice thing is like if you don't have the box goalie, is like you play five to five and then one person just steps in the net on defense. You know what I mean? So the numbers are Jamie Munro: Yeah, exactly. You can get ten people playing and stuff for space. Chad Palumbo: easy. but I I actually wanted to talk about Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: like more generally what you think like why you think unstructured play in athletics is so important. Cause like when I think about my favorite players and like some of the sickest players in like basketball, like in hockey, they're like guys who are playing like s like street ball, so to speak. You know what I mean? Like Jamie Munro: Yeah, for sure. Chad Palumbo: think about like I was watching Jason Williams highlights today. And like dude sick. And it's like like what like what do you think? Obviously as somebody who's like read a lot and studied a lot about Jamie Munro: About free play. Yeah. Chad Palumbo: It's yeah, about free play. Like what do you think about like just give me a couple thoughts on like why you think it's so sick from a broader standpoint. Jamie Munro: Well, free play allows players to do just that. They play in this low stakes environment. It can be really competitive. So the stakes can be you know, it needs to be it needs to mean something, but but you know that you're not gonna get hooked, you're not gonna get yelled at. And it allows you to be more creative. And I mean honestly it's been going on forever. The reason why I really got into the the free play with with JM three stuff Back in 2017, 2018 was because it's how I grew up playing. And I was kind of like, why do I know how to do all of these things that no one ever taught me? Because I just played so much pickup soccer and pickup basketball in my life. And that's like I played way more hours of pickup sports than I played of organized sports. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: And that's just kind of how it was in my my generation. And everything became much more structured with the with the evolution of coaching and the professionalization of youth sports and all this stuff. I mean, it just became like more and more and more organized. And in some ways that's like it's really good, but it could also really hold people back because all of a sudden they're telling you exactly how to do it all the time and and yelling at you if you don't do it exactly how they want you to do it. And we all we all know that like whether it's the Brazilian soccer players that play street street Ball with the the native lacrosse players that are just constantly playing backyard lacrosse. The whole box culture is kind of like that in the sense that just the shot clock in box of 30 seconds means you can't control it. I mean, that's honestly like I mean, the the the the small nets in box are like a big time important constraint. But I was I would put the 30 second shot clock up there as one of the most important constraints that like shape creativity because at the end of the clock, you just got to find a way to get a shot off. so I just to start honestly, Chad, and I think I've said this on podcast before, when I stepped down as the CEO of 3D Lacrosse and was moving on from the high school coach, coaching gig I had where I was coaching my son Colin, I I had a time to reflect. And I was proud of a lot of things that we had done, but I was just not satisfied with the transfer of what I knew kids could do to what they Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: actually did. And so I was like looking for a different way, and I was like, Well, maybe, maybe if they just do it in three by like on their own, it's like more real than if I just get them to do it. So we just started in the front, I just started playing three by with my daughter Lucy and her friends, and I got some high school boys, and we just started playing three by and I would just film it and watch it. And sure enough, I just started seeing all the things. So I think there's no question that free play is incredibly powerful. And and and and you know, listen, at at our jam free stuff. 40, 40 to 50% of our time. If you stay longer, it turns into 60 or 70%. If you stay later and keep playing, is free play. It's incredibly powerful, it's incredibly fun. I don't think it's better than constraints led approach with real intentionality of creating lots of variability. I think that's incredibly important too, because like if you keep playing the same games against the same people, you probably won't advance. As much Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: as you would if if you had like all kinds of different games and different constraints occurring. but man, you you add those two things together though, and that's it. You have like intentional CLA, ecological sort of approach type of practices, and then you throw in pickup. And I don't care who you are, you'll get really, really freaking good. I mean, look at it, you know, we were talking about this today, like. How much does Sours' game change? Chad Palumbo: He's play like if you look at the way he's like I mean he's having I I an V P season this year. and like like you said, like if you asked him he'd be like, dude, I've been looking at my stats since I started doing this stuff. You know, it's not not that correlation's exactly causation, but they just have gone up. and you know, there's a reason why, you know, most guys who love No, like the the guys that we've brought or that I've talked to about this stuff and have brought under the fold of GM three to to some extent have been incredibly curious about it and I've frankly really enjoyed it. It's fun. Jamie Munro: Yeah, like twelve guys that came down to Delray last year. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Like th that's a that's a whole n that's a cool thing. Like we had Northwestern and Prince and Jamie Munro: Dude, how sick is that though, that twelve Princeton guys and fifteen Northwestern girls came down and they both were number one seeds and both won national championships. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: And and by the way, th th you c you know, there's no credit to be taken for that than by these teams other than the fact that they're total lax rats and they wanna play pickup and they wanna play six cross. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Taking their Christmas break down in in Del Rey to go do like hour and a half on field, an hour and a half plus of pickup after. sick. Sick. Jamie Munro: I by the way, never seen you happier in my life than when you got down to Del Rey in when your head when your hair when you were still bald wearing a hat after after your Chad Palumbo: That yeah. No. Jamie Munro: chemo and you finally could play and you had like the biggest smile on your face and you were so fired up to be out there playing pickup. Chad Palumbo: Dude, that was I vividly remember that because I had like a three week break. It was like a halftime break for chemo. I Jamie Munro: Ha ha ha. Chad Palumbo: was like ref blew the whistle, it's like, all right, you get three weeks off. And I was like, I wanna go play lacrosse. Yeah, I mean I've said this plenty of times on plenty of things, but that those are those are the that experience with cancer is what made me realize how much I love lacrosse. And like that specifically that Del Rey session that winter was like some of the most fun I've ever had in my entire life. That's no joke. Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: but yeah. Jamie Munro: It it kind of keeps getting better though. You just keep adding you know why? 'Cause it's like when you just add new people and like somebody new comes down and it's like, you know, maybe there's Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Like a whole new thing. If you add one new person into like pickup new it's Jamie Munro: It changes the dynamic. Chad Palumbo: different it's a different dynamic. In that something Jamie Munro: That's one of the cool things too, I think, about pickup, the way we do it is like it's a different team every time. You know, unl unless Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: you catch somebody cheating where they can get the same lefty side every single time. you basically like have to find a way to win with a new team. And if you win, you move up, you lose, you move down. Chad Palumbo: You're playing a different brand all cross but based on who play with. So it's and it's like always being on the other side of it now is like starting to coach a lot more now. now that I've graduated. It's really cool seeing like over the course of a summer getting to play with a bunch of the athletes and and coach them and see how they develop over time is like Jamie Munro: Mm-hmm. Chad Palumbo: so cool to me. it's kind of becoming a new obsession. So it's it's very exciting. But like as it pertains to pickup, like running a lefty two man with like a younger guy that I'm coaching in doing getting to do that over five weeks is like actually the coolest thing to see like how their processing changes, how it evolves, and how they affect the way you see it too. It's very cool. Jamie Munro: Yeah. I want to switch gears again. You asked me the question about that. I want to ask you a question about the Princeton offense and Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: Coach Mitch and principles. I love talking about principles based offense. Chad Palumbo: Totally. Jamie Munro: I had I had breakfast with Matt Brown, the offensive the former offens the head coach at University of Denver, who was my assistant at Denver back in the day. I recruited Brownie, one of the better offensive minds in the game in He said that's the best offense I've ever seen. Which is pretty good, pretty big compliment. Yeah, Chad Palumbo: What this year specifically. Jamie Munro: you're you're Princeton offense. He said that to me at breakfast this this past June. how do you even characterize what a principles based offense like even is? Chad Palumbo: It's a g like, I in my mind, I think of it as like guy just like guidelines for how to how we're gonna run our offense. like more specifically like you have a couple things you hit that you you know like Mitch has like a a sheet that's like a couple bullet points of like these are our principles. So like this is what we focus on. And you know like dude, he'll probably be pissed. I don't know if I'll get all right right now if I listen list them all off. But like you go through one like for example, like spacing is a principle. And like rather than having these rules where it's like, okay, when when player X goes this way, player Y does this and mirrors or he cuts through or he follows or whatever. It's no, we actually like our spacing guideline, our spacing principle within that you can do anything, but you need to make sure that when the when the dodger needs an outlet, he has an outlet and that we're getting open off ball. And that's pretty much it. Jamie Munro: I like that because some people say you always have to have an outlet. But the way you articulated that is different. When the Dodger Chad Palumbo: You only need an hour. Jamie Munro: needs an outlet, you need to be an outlet. And that's such an important nuance because coaches that end up or or teams that end up always having an outlet in front of and behind the ball always have crap spacing. There's always somebody, a defender in the way, basically. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Well it's interesting 'cause it's like that's that's a really specifically that, like the the outlet portion of spa of the spacing principle is can be really difficult because if the Dodger needs an outlet and there isn't an outlet, it sucks. And the offense Jamie Munro: It's a problem. Chad Palumbo: is like shit 'cause you gotta overcarry, you gotta roll back and circle back and find someone new to throw the ball to. Jamie Munro: But if there's an outlet there when they don't need an outlet, they can't dodge and they won't create an advantage. Chad Palumbo: A hundred percent. So th it's like I the way I think that I mean, Mitch kinda taught me this, but the way I it's kinda like how I've started to think about like everything is like there's a razor there's like a a line, like a razor's edge, and it's like on one side it's like f in this case it would be like you're an outlet like you're an outlet too much. And on this side it's you're not an outlet enough. And you kinda have to like takes a minute to like be on both sides of that to find the line of like this, okay. This is how I know I need to be an outlet. Like there's cues like when you start like playing like this, where it's like, okay, when I see the Dodger do this, like he's probably gonna need to get rid of it or like he's not getting an advantage, let me pop out. and then you see the up the opposite too. But yeah, no, I think principles-based offense is kinda like I've played, I mean, it's so it's ala I feel like it allows and you'll be able to speak to this better than me, but I feel like it allows players to f like be themselves and flourish in a way that you can't get otherwise. Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: Like I feel like Jamie Munro: One of my good friends and former players, Billy McKinney, was a captain Chad Palumbo: Mm-hmm. Jamie Munro: of mine at the University of Denver and he ran runs Triple H. I love the way he characterized it for high school, but it's true. He's like, the best the best thing about principles-based offense is like guys don't have to do something they suck at. Chad Palumbo: That's it's really a great way to put it. Jamie Munro: In other words, w y you know, you don't have to like long dodge because that's what the you know, the only way we're gonna create, you know, the person who's like, I mean, if you had to long dodge all the time, although you've been using your speed a little bit more now with the chaos, but but in all seriousness, like, you know, you can you can create advantages. There's a million ways to create an advantage is basically the point. And and and why not figure out how to do it out of the flow of Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: of actions and and Or triggers and ball movement and spacing and all of these things. And and basically, you know, Colin Burns is maybe the greatest example of it because he every time I mean that kid's an unbelievable lacrosse player. By the way, great dude, but great guy. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Great guy. But he's he's a like unsung I don't know if unsung Jamie Munro: He is. Chad Palumbo: is the right word, but like unsung hero of that team last year because Jamie Munro: Formerly men. Chad Palumbo: like not like doesn't get the Jamie Munro: Unheralded. Chad Palumbo: like a Kabiri or like me or like a Wade gets who's just Jamie Munro: Totally. Chad Palumbo: I like Gla call him the grease of of the offense. Like he makes everything. He makes Jamie Munro: Totally, man. And he just kept scoring goals and he kept and he scores dodging goals and everyone keeps putting shortties on him. It was pretty funny. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: I was talking to I was talking to this dad of a of a of a of this kid I I know and and we were it was before the playoffs and he was telling, you know, he he he went on to say that Matty Taylor wasn't the best player in the country and I I kind of jumped on him about that one. And then and then he went on to say like You know, Prince is good, but I don't know that Colin Burns guy is like not that good. I was like, I totally jumped on him about that. And I was like, Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: you don't realize you don't understand how good Colin Burns is. Like Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: that guy does everything for the offense. And you put a shorty on him, you put a pole on him, it doesn't really matter. He's gonna score no matter what. And he'll score dodging goals, he'll score offball goals, he'll feed it anything you need him to do. And that's like the beauty. I mean, if you did put Colin Burns in a more traditional offense where you get the short and Colin, you're gonna have to ISO and like create advantages. It would be harder for him. Simply because with all the context and opportunities and options in in a principles-based offense, smart players can thrive in any situation. It's just so easy. They're not just like you have to dodge at this point in time. You know, when the ball gets to you, we're all doing this, you have to be the guy. And and it's just way harder to play offense though. Chad Palumbo: It's funny we initially like we went over that speed bump where Bernsey started getting shortied when I was a junior. Yeah, no. I mean he had to have gotten shorty when he was a freshman in bed too. But I'm like remembering my junior year, like when he started like getting a shorty pretty consistently and like we were at like starting to get the ball to him and like asking him to ISO. Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: And then after a couple of weeks we're like, like why are we asking him to do something that isn't his strength? Like so by our senior by this year, this season. Like you we used to we used to have a a game plan. I mean Mitch would talk about this extensively too. It's like we used to have a game plan for when Colin would get a shorty. And then it became like, Okay, if a team wants to shorty him, w he all his strengths are still available and he's gonna create advantages in a bunch of different ways. Like w like either as a pick setter for a bunch of guys Jamie Munro: Totally. He created in more ways. Chad Palumbo: He would there were he scored multiple goals this year where he he's playing X and he's getting short sticked and him playing the pipes, short sticks never play the pipes. And he would be able to get sneakals all the time. Like guys would just get Jamie Munro: Toll. Chad Palumbo: caught behind the net and like look like idiots and he'd circle around the net, catch a ball, have a dunk. but that's like we talked about playing like Mitch loves talk like he talked about playing for your strengths all the time. Like you would talk about he'd be like Look, like we're gonna ask Wade to be the one long dodging out of the box or Pete to be like long dodging out the box. It was like usually for me, like if when I was coming out of box, I'm like, get a move it and get in. Because I'm a I'm more of a short dodge guy. And that's like totally fine. And he like It was like for the same reason it'd be like if we threw the ball to like like Aiden McDonald, who's a w Canadian like off ball pick setter, like stud. But if we threw the ball to him and cleared through and gave him space to move, Mitch would be like, Well, what are we doing? Like he doesn't want to do that. And it's like not that you can't, you totally can, but like let's play to our strengths. Like and we we have the a hundred percent. Exactly. Like Jamie Munro: Let do it off an approach, but not off a setting. Yeah. Chad Palumbo: let him set it and slip and catch it and go. Like rather than like y I don't know. I I think it's I feel like by the end of the year, that team, we all like this is kind of what I talked about with Dumpy earlier, like we all had a communal understanding of of what everyone's strengths were, what everyone liked, what they wanted to do, and vice versa, what they didn't like, what they didn't want to do. And the offense ran incredibly smoothly. Like it was the most fun offense I've ever played. Jamie Munro: One of the things you mentioned with Bernsey and in his pick setting is another one of the main principles, not just the action of pick setting, but but the but setting picks with real intention to create advantages. how big of a point of emphasis was that at Princeton? Chad Palumbo: I mean it was discussed every single film session, without a doubt. Like like Mitch would say, like we have creators, we have connectors, and we have finishers. And he was like that it was a way to categorize guys' strengths. But like as a like as it pertains to like, you know, Bernsey with a shorty, or like when I ran out of the box, my f my sophomore junior year would have a shorty a lot of the time. It's like you don't like being a cr you can create offense by being a pick setter. That's an incredible that is a incredibly important role. And like I think we I mean like I don't want to make any crazy claims, but I I would I would like to think we went deeper into that realm of like offense, like it like the two-man game and like how to set great picks specifically. We said we were the best pick setting team in the country. Like by at the end of the year, like that was like our like MO. We like, we are the best pick-setting team in the country. we thought we set the best better picks than everybody we thought we could set picks like teams had had never played against before. like at just a like a whole different level. and like teams would have their pick coverages and we knew how to exploit all. We knew what reads to make and what picks to set and you know how to seal, how to spin seal. and I think that's that was like I mean if you had to if you would have asked me what like, you know, part of our offense probably was the strongest compared to every other team, I pr I would say pick setting for sure. Jamie Munro: I would agree. And I would also say, on the flip side, it's generally I would say kind of universally a weakness. Definitely at the high school level, I just do not see intentional pick setting like at all. And at the college level, there are definitely, I'm not going to be naming names, but there are some teams that I think do set like very intentionally good picks. And I think there's a lot of just completely wasted picks. I mean if you set if the whole point of setting a pick is to create an advantage and you're not intentionally setting a pick and using that pick, and I mean the onus is on the dodger and the picker. of of Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: of reading that coverage and creating the advantage, then that is a waste of shot clock. Period. That's all it is. You're not gonna nothing's gonna happen. and I think some I think some people kind of view like the best outcome is just get a switch. you know, then you've got matchup change and maybe there's a shorty on your best guy or something. But I don't think that's bad, although although I think that's got big time diminishing returns. Like I you know, that's fine to do it a few times a game. I think it's great, but but if it's it's up ten or fifteen times a game, it all of a sudden your offense is becoming pretty stagnant now. if you're gonna just Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: rely on like an isolation with your best guy against a shorty all game long, a few times it's great. But but you know, is it y you're not gonna get on the field at Princeton if you're not a great pick setter. Chad Palumbo: No, I mean, in fact, the opposite. Like, if you could do nothing but set great picks, you will probably get on the field. Like, I think it's I think it's I like I mean to the point you said earlier, like I feel like like most I'm thinking specifically at the high school level, like now that I've started like coaching more and stuff, like if if like eight out of every ten picks you see at the high school level are like Jamie Munro: You sus. Chad Palumbo: Like they don't do anything. They they hurt the offense more than they help. and yeah, like you like you said, like when you watch high school across the best the best result is usually a switch. Jamie Munro: Yes. Chad Palumbo: but there's so much deeper to go. and I don't think a lot of people realize that until like I mean, I never knew that until like kind of you know, I started getting my eyes open to it from like from like Rowley, from you and from Mitch. Jamie Munro: You know, it's it I will I will Say that it's harder for a guy like you coming out of high school as an attackman, always got a poll on you. You you just don't get the reps at pick setting in games when you're Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: always getting a poll. I mean, and and that's that is fact. I mean, you would hope that everybody on your team, you know, in practice is being developed to be able to understand. How to set crack angle picks, how to adjust for the over, how to set back pedal picks, how to understand seals, triple A's, spin seals. and on the flip side, you know, I would expect if you're always getting the poll that you're always being picked for, that you're gonna be very intentional about the responsibility on your end of not just letting a guy go under. Chad Palumbo: Mm-hmm. Jamie Munro: Just blasting off and just expecting, you know, and recognize he's going under and slowing down so that he can't have an easy under and your pick setter can move, or when they're going over, that you can either reject them or invite them over and put them on your back or late rollback and scrape them off and just understand what the coverages are. but it is a little bit harder for guys coming in that are kind of always been the star and been attackman and always have polls to like You know, they just kinda like, I'll just stick a pick and you know, do a flyby, as opposed to like truly like reading a reading a coverage. but it's like not that hard to do. You but b and and given the fact that like what percentage of would you say division one offense is two man game if you were to like just guess? And I I don't know what the stat is on this, but well what what do you think, Princeton? How how much of your offense, you know? Chad Palumbo: You think our offense or offense in general? Like our offense was hugely too bad. like I Jamie Munro: What do you think in general? I mean, I it's gotta be like seventy, sixty sixty to eighty percent anyways. I mean, like every single possession, people are running too many games. I mean, of course you're gonna do some shorts, but but but you're almost not Chad Palumbo: Yeah, I mean there's a there's you probably there's possession. I mean yeah, probably every possession for the most I Jamie Munro: definitely every possession. Chad Palumbo: mean like think about how many teams off the end line I'll just go into a biggie and run a run a big little. I Jamie Munro: Totally. Chad Palumbo: mean for sure for us for sure it happened every possession, on ball and off ball. And off ball's a whole different, you know, realm. But Like same concept. Like it like it happens constantly. it's more fun to do it off ball because you can do anything you want and the refs won't call it. Jamie Munro: Ha ha ha. Chad Palumbo: But like we like like to your point about it being pretty simple, or not simple but like easy, is like honestly, like I think any like anybody can be a good pick center. That's like Part of the beautiful like thing about it is like it's all just effort and IQ. Like, are you gonna do you know what to do? And are you gonna be able to outwork you know the pick defenseman? That's like the whole that's the whole thing. That's it. So I I feel like it's a once guys try to dive into it and like genuinely put effort towards it, like you can see it pretty quickly. And it's it is something everyone can do, like no matter who you. Jamie Munro: For listeners out there, here's what I want you to do. Watch and see the next, you know, since the PLL is on right now, you can still watch that. Watch if defenders easily get underpicked. If someone goes and sets a pick and the defender just gets easily under it, it's not an intentional pick. Or it's not an intentional enough dodge, or it's a combination of both. But that's like the kind of the starting point. And we talk Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: about this on this podcast. I've talked about it before crack angle picking. Disable the defense's ability to get under, force them then to go over, and then you can chip the over, put them in a trailing position. The defense wants to get under because it's like a shortcut. They might want to go over because they might want to bully you, but they may not want to try to bully Michael Sowers. It's just going to put you in a trailing position that you're probably not going to catch up on. and I I I for for the for the listeners, that's what you should be looking for. If you're a coach, if you're a player, if you want to know what we're talking about specifically, just go and see what happens. If there is an actual switch. It was definitely more intentional by the Dodger, maybe not intentional enough by the picker. They probably overpicked it. But if the defense cleanly gets under something, it's it's zero intentionality and it becomes a total waste of of shot clock. last topic, Chad, one of the most fun topics that we've talked about a lot since day one. And it seems like it just kind of keeps evolving, but The concept of deception. We were talking about it today earlier. I feel like your your deception game has gone to an entirely new level, and it's why you're making it look easy. You're not like a a better athlete than you were, you know, a year ago, really. And and and you're definitely not going against lesser athletes now. But you're making it look easy. And I think I think it's because you've just taken your deceptive deception game to a whole other level. Can you just talk about that sort of big picture and then and then maybe specifically how you maybe work on it? Chad Palumbo: Yeah. I think it like I remember like when I first started doing GM three and you first started getting me to do, you know, hitches and like going hands up into my dodge. like we like we were talking about earlier, like there was an ini there was a huge jump in it like right away, a huge jump in my game 'cause it was kind of a a skill set I had never worked on. And frankly, I think without focusing on deception, I never would have become a a professional crossplayer, let alone maybe even a D1 crossplayer. Jamie Munro: You wouldn't have gone to Princeton. Chad Palumbo: I definitely wouldn't have gone a prince, yeah. Jamie Munro: Your highlight video in September 2020 was like kind of like John Grant Jr. in the amount of deception you were using. and it was like, holy shit. I was when I Chad Palumbo: Well it it was Jamie Munro: saw that video, I was like, I sent it to Mitch immediately. I sent it to Kerwin too. Kerwin's, you know what Kerwin said? Wow. That kid that Chad Palumbo: Yeah. What? y I used. Jamie Munro: kid's got a lot of confidence. His exact words when he was still at Virginia. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: but I think you also had like an aptitude for it and frankly some people have a little bit more of an aptitude for deception for others than others. I I can't really figure out why. I mean, maybe some people are more like pranksters or something. Maybe Chad Palumbo: I think I think a part of it is like like there are some guys that like like if you look at like Mike, like Sours like I was never able to just blow by people, you know, like Mike was. So I had to rely on it more. But I also did just love it. But I think I think Mike, if you would ask him, I imagine his response would be something like he it never came across his desk because he he never had to. And Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: now that he is is has you know the last couple of years been working on it a bunch. Like he's actually loves it. 'Cause it's sick and it's addicting. But I I mean l I I mean to my point earlier, like I there's no chance I'd be here without a without deception. And It's fucking cool to watch. Like you were watching I was watching John Grant Jr. and then you brought him up. Just reminded me. Saw a video of him playing at the a couple weeks ago at the Ocean City classic or whatever that tournament is. You Jamie Munro: Yeah. Chad Palumbo: know, is it like this big old man, he's not even moving fast, but he's like just posting up and throwing pumps and like rockers and shit and like getting by people like while walking. Like literally walking. He's like doing like walk walk dodging and like getting by just like walking his way to the net. And it's cool. It's it's really cool. I think that's like Jamie Munro: I think it's the difference between good and great, honestly. And and here's Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: another statement that's I've thought about a lot about. I feel like in a high level game, like where there's high level defense. Every goal. Just about every goal is a result of something deceptive. Because the defenses are so good. If you don't do something deceptive, you're just not getting a great shot. They like literally are so athletic in and they're so in in in sync. That if you don't Chad Palumbo: It's funny like Jamie Munro: do something to slow them down, to make them late, to make them early, to you know, that they will they'll shut you down. And that's why it's just so funny watching You know, the people that like make it look easy. Like I said, you've been making it look easy. Jeff Teat makes it look easy. Ryder Garnsey makes it look easy. Connor Fields makes it look easy. Sowers is starting to make it look easy too. I mean, he used to just do it the hard way and like almost get pummeled and dive. And now he's added on the run hitches to his game. And it's like he's already gonna get a step. Chad Palumbo: It's it's Jamie Munro: And then he just starts like dropping his hands and hitching and wagging his stick on the way. And it's like they they they can't check him when he goes to shoot. Chad Palumbo: It's it's like the same thing with like you if you watch like CJ Kirst play, it's like it's like it's like how is like Jamie Munro: Totally man. yeah, CJ Curse is like deceptive freaking Chad Palumbo: the best goal scorer in the world like hands free from ten yards so much? It's like it's like every time you Jamie Munro: Yeah. Totally. Cause he hitches the lights out. Chad Palumbo: play, he's hitching, he's running he's like it it's it's funny like Jamie Munro: Dude, he's a c he's a case study on deception. I mean, like the way he goes underneath and he kinda dangles his little backhand and gets you to swing. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. And there's something else under the surface. Jamie Munro: Yeah. It's actually insane. Yeah. Chad Palumbo: I've kind of learned how to think about it, and this goes for off ball too, is like Coach Mitch at school would always talk about like the bandwidth of the defense, like how much they can process. And he's like, You can overrun their bandwidth. And I started like thinking like, all like how can I make my defenseman and the defense as a whole just feel like worried about and thinking about as many things as possible at the same time. And it's like the notion of like when I'm off ball, like like y you love talking about getting I can't what do you call it when you stand right behind them so they have to turn around. Jamie Munro: get into their blind spot. Basically the look at me look at the ball concept. Chad Palumbo: Exactly. It's like if you keep getting in the blind spot of the fence, but he keeps having to turn around and find you, how's he gonna how's he gonna help? How's he gonna be a one slide? How's he gonna be a two slide? Like how's he gonna hedge? Like it's all that. It's a like that's like a very simple example of it, but it's the same thing on ball. It's like How can I make this guy worried about me passing while I'm dodging or worried about me rolling back when I'm you know, want to get topside? It's it's like It's yeah, like I mean, like I said earlier, it's it's addicting. I absolutely love it. and I'm not as athletic Jamie Munro: It is so sick. Chad Palumbo: as sours, so I I need it. Jamie Munro: I feel like you've you've actually like taken your baiting game to a another level this summer, actually. Like like in training Chad Palumbo: what how's it? Jamie Munro: in in Narragansett, I see you doing it, but I see you doing it with the chaos where you're basically just kind of dangling your stick there and waiting for them to swipe at it and or whatever. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. what I got better at this summer was so I've always liked I've always like enjoyed like baiting checks, like coming up the hash, bait him to check so I can get another step and get to a spot I want to, or you know, baiting checks so I can shoot. What Jeff T does really well that I have tried to do for a long time but have started to get a lot better at, is is like you always talk about like cradling in front of you. Jamie Munro: Mm-hmm. Chad Palumbo: And like that's like I mean that's same bandwidth concept is like if you're doing that you can t you can literally see the defensive sometimes like looking down and being like like like check or and then you can take off and you can bring them right back and like it that's like one of my favorite ways to go down the alley is like literally trying to not protect my stick at all, like leave it out there. Jamie Munro: Ha ha ha. Chad Palumbo: Like knowing and like when you the more you do it, like the better you get it, making sure they can't actually take the ball from you. But anytime you get a defenseman, especially like short sticks, like this was like we would scout like this would be a scout for a bunch of teams we play. Like for example, like obviously friends with Aiden McGuire, so I feel good saying this. Like when we play Duke, like part of the scout's like, Yeah, you can get you can get Aiden to start swinging if you if you made him. And for a lot of guys that meant like, all right, let me not hang my stick. And for some of us it was like, all right, let's see if we can bait him to stop his feet and start throwing checks. You know what I mean? So that's something I've been a little more obsessed with lately and I feel like I've started to get down. But Jeff T is Jeff T is the best at that. Walks down the alley just Jamie Munro: Yeah. Jeff Teet is so sick at it. Yeah. You know, one of the things about baiting too, that's so cool is not only is it allow you to get a step, but it always takes the defense by surprise. Cause they don't see it coming. Whereas like if you like go at a guy and wrinkle a little bit and make a move and get a step, they're all they can see you. They're ready to go. But when you Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: just dangle your stick by your waist and just like bait him into like going for it as you were just describing, and you make your move, they're all late because it looks like the defenders in like perfect position and you're not even dodging because you're not dodging. You're just letting the guy beat himself. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: and it's just it's wild how those two things actually work so well together. It allows you to beat a guy very cleanly and fast. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: And it and it k completely catches the defense by surprise and they're just not they're just not ready to go the way they would be if you like actually like squared them up and started going. Chad Palumbo: I was on a Zoom talking about being hard to slide to with one of our athletes yesterday. And like I got throughout college, I always got that I was really hard difficult to slide to because the timing was always really hard. And specifically, I was talking exactly about like hostage dribbling and drawing defensemen over picks. Because you would get a defenseman to come over a pick with him and he'd and he'd blast off and like get a couple steps and run to the net. I'm like, dude, like you have that step. I mean, specifically this kid is pretty fast too. I was like, dude, you have that step whenever you want it. Once you bait him over the pick, you have your step. It's like, now it's like, when do I want to take it almost? If you get him in the hostage robble, you get him on your back, you can decide to take that step whenever. And it's really weird for the defense, because it's like They're like, do we slide? Like a lot of times they'll slide then stop. And like when they go back, then you can just walk in. You can you can blast off and get your couple steps and walk right into the front and dunk it. or even if they end up just saying like F it and sliding, you have more time because you're not moving as fast. Get rid of the mole and find find me. Jamie Munro: Totally. Buying time for your decision making. Chad Palumbo: Mm-hmm. Jamie Munro: I know I saw I saw massive improvements out of Kyle Lewis last week on that. What a freak Chad Palumbo: Yeah, totally. Jamie Munro: he is, by the way. Chad Palumbo: I mean he's he was he could he could beat anybody any time in our in our training. He's in Jamie Munro: my God. But he started figuring out how to do exactly. I think we were doing like a one-on-one plus two pickers and and which is really, really obviously difficult for the defense. Great for them because they get to navigate Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: picks. But it then all of a sudden you watch him just like totally slowing down and waiting to bait the guy over so they could like cleanly turn it. But you know, Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: that's it. And that's like, you know, for fast guys, when you're coaching them, you can't just be like slow down. It that doesn't make sense, even though that's what they actually, you know, it it is it is a description of what you actually kind of need to do. But but you can't say that to a really, really fast athlete because it they it's like, what do you mean, slow down? Like, how am I gonna get a step if I slow down? Which is why constraints led approach stuff is so powerful because you can end up saying, like, all right. You have to bait, you know, the defense, you have to you have to go over the pick. But on a one-on-one plus two pickers against a really fast guy, they're not you you're you're gonna beat him so badly that that they don't have a chance. And you you literally have to wait for them, like bring them over the pick with you that you actually got to slow Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: down. You you're not telling them to slow down, you're just like, you have to like bait this guy to come over the pick. Which Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: means if you have a huge step, you're gonna have to slow down. You know, and Chad Palumbo: Mm-hmm. Jamie Munro: there's so many different applications for hitches and hesies, and one of them is like I'm not gonna make it to the pick. I gotta hezy to like get my step so I can turn a corner. And the other one is I got a huge step and I gotta slow down so I can like let this guy catch up to me. and I don't know. I mean all of it, I mean I I do think like, you know, when I before I was like, I don't know, there's an aptitude for deception. I do think there is in the sense that I think some people just like, I don't know, take to it a little bit differently. But without a question, it has a lot to do with perception. Because the everything that you're doing deception-wise, is where you see an opportunity and you want to like look it off. You see a pick coverage and you want to like exploit it and you want to bring this guy over. You see a defender going under and you have to slow down to get him to slow down so he doesn't have an easy under. And this ability to perceive the opportunities that are around you. Or what deception it it's what it is. You're you're basically seeing an opportunity. You know that the whole rest of the defense also sees, you know, that your opponents see the opportunity that you see, and you gotta figure out a way to like disguise it so they so they don't think you're doing it. Because so because everybody that's good on defense or offense are seeing what's happening, and that's what the deception is, just kind of taking it to another level. and And another way of looking at it is defenders are always looking for opportunities to make plays too. So when you dangle your stick there, you're basically giving them this opportunity that you can try to butt that you can get to bite on. Chad Palumbo: Fairly. Jamie Munro: which is why sometimes when you see people like use deception, they just have this like one box fake they always do. Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: You know, like that one, it's like it's like basically knowing a couple words in another language and just blurting them out at random times. I mean, it's like it's not actually deception. It's a fake. but Chad Palumbo: Yeah. Jamie Munro: it's not actually being deceptive. Where you'll see somebody do like a big gotcha fake and they're like so far from the net, it's it's not even doing anything. I mean, you might as well like, you know, find a way to use this to your advantage. but I look at like deception. I think most I I I feel like deception is kind of viewed like the cherry on top. All right, let's work on all this stuff and let's like do a little deception too. That'll be fun. But but actually it's kind of like the whole game. I mean Chad Palumbo: I I was g it it's I think it's woven into like ev like even like people who don't even think of themselves as being deceptive, like you said earlier, like it's woven into everything. 'Cause like at the heart at the root of it, like any move, like even a split dodge is like, Let me get you to think I'm going this way and then I split this way. Jamie Munro: Exactly. The only problem is is that when you work on that move against cones, it kind of screws you because you you don't get the feel for how to shift somebody's weight, which is like, you know, what that split is all about. All right, Chatty, we're running Chad Palumbo: Totally. Totally. Totally. Jamie Munro: out of time here. awesome to have you on the podcast. Awesome to have you on board with JM3 after like working with you as a coach for since you're like sophomore year high school, it's awesome to be on the on the flip side and be able to talk lacrosse with you all the time. if people that Chad, what's your what's your email if people want to reach out to you? Chad Palumbo: It's C Palumbo, P A L U B O at J three Sports dot com. Jamie Munro: Awesome. And what's your Instagram? Chad Palumbo: Chad Dal Palumba. Jamie Munro: Nice. Chatty, awesome. Always awesome to talk lax with you. Let's catch up again soon. Chad Palumbo: Of course. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Jamie. Jamie speaking: Thanks for listening to the JM three lacrosse podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate, and share with a teammate or coach who loves the game. We'll see you next time.