Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #40: How to Develop Resilience and Emotional Regulation in Young Adults: What Parents Need to Know

Transcript

#40: How to Develop Resilience and Emotional Regulation in Young Adults: What Parents Need to Know · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is lunch.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: My guest today is Mickey Johnston.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: She is a Texas board-certified licensed clinical social worker with a Master of Social Work from Loyola University in Chicago.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: With over 30 years of experience, Mickey's private practice focuses on the treatment of teens and adults who are struggling with issues related to anxiety, depression, relationships, trauma, grief, and life transition issues.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: She specializes in strengthening family connections and guiding parents through important conversations about adolescent development and sexual health.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Currently, Mickey's curriculum is being used in Dallas' private schools.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: She's also a proud mother of two adult daughters and a longtime community volunteer.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: If you're wondering how to help your adult kid become more resilient and learn how to effectively manage their emotions, you're gonna love this episode.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Hi, Mickey.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Hi, Shari, how are you?
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Good, good.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining me today.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Um thank you for having me.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited about being here.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Me too.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: I have been looking forward to this conversation because there are so many important life skills, but these two are amongst my favorite because they are so important for young adults to be able to cope, to manage their emotions and really to handle whatever life throws at them.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Today we are talking about resilience and emotional regulation, which is funny because we throw these words around a lot like everybody knows what they mean.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: And I really don't think there's clear, sometimes clear definitions for parents to understand these.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: So because this is something that you deal with a lot in your practice, I'd like you to define for the listener what they actually mean.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: I'd be happy to.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: So the way I define resilience is the ability to bounce back and yet propel forward, right?
2:09
SPEAKER_00: After a struggle or a challenge, a difficulty or some kind of adversity.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: And when I say bounce back, I don't mean like pull yourself up by your bootstraps or toughen up, right?
2:24
SPEAKER_00: It's about being able to look at the situation that happened, right?
2:30
SPEAKER_00: And learn from it so we can move forward with more knowledge, more confidence.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's to me true resilience.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we all experience difficult times in our lives, and so will our children, but it's about how quickly and effectively we can recover and, like you said, move forward.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: So it's true.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's I want to say about resilience these couple of things that are so important.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Resilience is learned.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: We are not born resilient.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: It's not about avoiding challenges, it's about facing inevitable challenges and difficulties that are going to happen throughout our lives, regardless of race, religion, socioeconomics.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Resilience can happen in the face of, you know, on a continuum, right?
3:26
SPEAKER_00: From different degrees of struggle, right?
3:31
SPEAKER_00: So it can be something like not being picked in your PE class, right?
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Then it, you know, as life progresses, it gets, you know, maybe more serious.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a peer conflict, maybe it's not getting the job you applied for.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Or getting fired.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Or getting fired, exactly, or your parents getting divorced or losing a parent to death.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: So there's this huge continuum of inevitable struggles that we're gonna face throughout our lifetime.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: And this is really about being allowed to fail so we have opportunities to grow and learn and bounce back and then move forward.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, I never made this analogy before, but I got into sourdough.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: And sourdough, in order to make your sourdough stronger, you need to stretch it.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: And the other day I heard this term, stretch and grow.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful because that's what it is.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: We have to be able to stretch.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: We have to be able to be pliable and bend and mold, not conform, right?
4:47
SPEAKER_00: But be able to take the situation that's given to us, right?
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And then be able to form.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you're right.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: It is something, even though there are some kids, some babies that are born with this like ability to be more adaptable, right?
5:03
SPEAKER_01: It is, there's a bit of an a genetic component to it, but really it is something that you can learn.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: It and then it's like a muscle.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: The more you go through these kind of life's challenges, the better you become at developing your resilience.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, which is which brings us into so many other things that I know we're going to talk about today.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And I'm excited about it.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing about resilience that I want to stress is that some of the things that you described, okay, are more like personality traits or temperament, where resilience is a learned skill.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: And we can only become resilient when we are given the opportunity to fail.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of a lot of this is a lot of this learning is through modeling.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: It is.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: So, which is a burden, so to speak, to parents, because if a parent doesn't have this capacity for resilience, it's really hard to teach it.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: It is incredibly hard.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: And I know that you had, you wanted to talk a little bit about, you know, some of the parents' struggles, you know, what parents face.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I know we're going to get into all of that.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: But why do you think that developing resilience is so important for young adults today?
6:25
SPEAKER_00: I think that, you know, the reason that it's most important today is that today's young adults are really under so much more pressure and under so much more stress to perform, right?
6:40
SPEAKER_00: For excellence and perfection, then they have the component of social media where there's this crisis of comparison, where they're always looking at everyone else and saying, I'm not good enough.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm I have didn't do it right, you know, I'm not getting that kind of recognition, likes or followers.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: So there's all eyes on us.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: And in today's, in today's world, we have to be able to problem solve.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: We have to be able to think critically about the things we're seeing on social media or hearing from our peers or whatever it may be.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: And we have to be able to tolerate, and this is such a huge part, uncertainty.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: We don't always know the path, right?
7:29
SPEAKER_00: And we spend so much time thinking that everyone has it better or easier than we do.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, it looks like they don't have any problems.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Look how wonderful their life is.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Look where they get to travel, look what car they drive, you know, um, look at all their friend group.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: When we're looking, like, for example, at social media, we have to remember these are just the highlights of somebody's life.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: It's not the whole story.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: So in today's society, resilience is important because, again, we have to be able to look at things critically and recognize that we're good enough, right?
8:06
SPEAKER_00: And that nothing is perfect, right?
8:09
SPEAKER_00: And that we have to face life's challenges with a lens of what are my options, you know, and how can I learn from my own mistakes?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: How can I tolerate not knowing what tomorrow brings?
8:25
SPEAKER_00: Right, you know, also resilience in today's society is this ability to be able to ask for help, to know that we don't have all the answers, and that not everybody is gonna like us, right?
8:40
SPEAKER_00: Our boss, our teacher, not everyone in our friend group, right?
8:46
SPEAKER_00: And we can't just recoil, you know, or avoid difficult or uncomfortable situations or situations where we don't know the outcome.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And so resilience is really important for today's youth.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: So funny because I asked you about young adults, but everything you're saying right now is actually for everybody.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Like it's for everybody, Shari.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Without resilience, I think I believe that our kids can get very easily overwhelmed and feel defeated.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: And and when they start feeling like that, that leads to anxiety, that leads to low self-esteem, and even to depression.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: So I think that resilience is is like that it gives you that kind of ability to manage all of that and avoid the pitfalls if you don't have it.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: It's important to recognize that not having resilience or not being as resilient, right, is not a weakness or a flaw.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: It's that we haven't learned it.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: We haven't been given opportunities.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to talk about how parenting can enhance resilience and foster and build resilience, but it makes us feel less competent.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: To not have it, right?
10:01
SPEAKER_00: And it makes us feel vulnerable.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: And when you do have a resilience, that that ability to handle things and bounce back, that life's challenges are just, they just feel much more uh manageable.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's actually why I love resilience so much, because I believe that if once you develop your resilience, and it is something that's like a lifetime.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: And when something happens to me, I've got to pool my resources and and and build and find that resilience again to work through something.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: But I love resilience because it does build self-confidence.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: It does, it does.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: And in truth, it's not about resilience, it's not about avoiding life challenges.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: It's not this doesn't bother me or I'm unaffected, right?
10:54
SPEAKER_00: It's wow, this has really rocked me.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Now, how do I handle this?
11:00
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't happen in a snap.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: It takes hours and days sometimes and weeks to bounce back.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: So we have to be, we have to show ourselves and each other a little bit of grace.
11:11
SPEAKER_03: Right.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: When it comes to a challenge or a difficulty, it doesn't mean bouncing back immediately, right?
11:18
SPEAKER_00: So we have to be respectful of the time that it takes.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: So, what are some of the ways that you see in your practice that parents, we're going to get into parents now, unintentionally hold back their kids from developing resilience?
11:33
SPEAKER_00: It's not what parents are necessarily doing wrong, right?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: But there are struggles and there are things that parents can do to foster resilience.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: But I want to know what when you have a parent sitting in your practice and and they're holding their child back, what is it they're what is it they're doing?
11:54
SPEAKER_01: They don't mean to be doing that, but what is it that they're doing that's holding them back from developing that muscle of resilience?
12:01
SPEAKER_01: What do you see?
12:02
SPEAKER_00: They are rescuing them or fixing their problems.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: They are not letting them speak.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: They are correcting them.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, no, no, honey, you know, that's not the right answer.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Or they're when they notice their child is sad or angry or scared, they try and rescue them from the feeling, like the feeling is bad or wrong, right?
12:29
SPEAKER_00: And then the child freezes and begins to think, well, what's wrong with me?
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe I shouldn't express that.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And they start to feel like a burden, right?
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Or they start to doubt themselves, and they in comes this like self-worth issue, right?
12:44
SPEAKER_00: So when parents try and, you know, or I notice all the time with parents, and I saw it yesterday with a family I was sitting with, every time the daughter started to cry or show some emoting of sadness mostly, the dad would lean in and try and make her laugh.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Like rob her of the opportunity to just feel that.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: And that sends the message that I don't trust that you can handle the emotion.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: I can't handle the emotion.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And that some emotions are good and bad is the message they're sending.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: And we don't hold space for certain emotions here.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: Snap out of it.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: The other big thing which I touched on is they try and fix all their problems.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: They think they're kind of like a soft landing, right?
13:42
SPEAKER_00: They think, well, I'm just trying to protect them.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: But protect them from what?
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Because if the child is struggling a peer conflict, a problem at work, a problem in high school or college, right?
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Just solving a problem when the parents start giving suggestions or saying, let me call your boss, or let me call the parent and see if we can work this out.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Instead, what if they sat with them to try and problem solve and said, Tell me what you think might be a good idea?
14:16
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Right?
14:17
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: What do you think might be a great idea?
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And then the kid gives a suggestion or kind of stumbles a little bit, and the parent goes, I know it's really hard to figure this out.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: What else do you think?
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Instead of going, well, this is what you should do.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: Right?
14:32
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the biggest crux of it.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: We have to let our children be uncomfortable and recognize that discomfort is a natural emotion.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: And to acknowledge, this is another thing, is that I think parents are so well intended.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: And I truly believe, and I said this to the family yesterday, it's just an interesting example that this happened yesterday, because it happens every day, all day in my practice, and also in my parenting.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, I have two adult children, one that's nearby and one that's far away.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: So there's you know different degrees of this, but uh validating that it's okay to be uncomfortable.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: It's like we don't always have the answer.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: And uncertainty is our is normal.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: The future is uncertain.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: We have to we have to become comfortable with un with not knowing.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right, Shari.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things with social media is there is no unknown because everything is so instantaneous, right?
15:45
SPEAKER_00: We have the answer right away.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: We have AI, we have Google, we have every possible search, we have every TikTok video that's explaining everything.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: And and we don't have to wait.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: This is not the 80s where we had to be bored, where we had to sit and be like, oh, you know, there's none of that.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: And everyone is so overstimulated all the time, and thinking that every little bit of space has to be filled with something, right?
16:13
SPEAKER_00: And not, it's not okay to be bored, to be uncomfortable, and to just sit.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: And you nailed it.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's it's so in our nature to want to rescue.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is and to solve their problems so that they are not uncomfortable.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Because that, like you said, that father sitting there, it was making him like viscerally uncomfortable to watch his daughter cry.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: And so that's the problem is that we are coming to their rescue because we love them so much.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: But but again, safety net is one thing.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Being a safety net, being there when they fall, but not holding them as they fall or not rescuing them before they even hit the bottom.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's definitely a challenge for parents to help to model resiliency or to even if they're modeling it when your kid is going through it, just be there for them.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: That's the best thing you can do.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Be there, sit with them, collaborate.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Because it's okay to say, have you thought about?
17:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, or I wonder if when you tried that last time, what do you think the outcome was?
17:22
SPEAKER_00: You're having a conversation, yeah, right, that says, I trust your ideas and I want to hear them.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't need you to do it my way.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Let's figure out what your way is.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: And listen, that can bite us in the ass too.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Because if we do if we make a suggestion and they take it and it's not the right suggestion, they'll turn around and say, It's your fault.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: I've been there.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: And then there's no and then there's no ownership.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Then there's just blame.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: Then there's just blame.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's important that we teach our our kids that there's options.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: So if you if you try something and it doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: You you pivot.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: You pivot, and like you said about sourdough, right?
18:09
SPEAKER_00: You form and you bend.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And you get stronger.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: And you do.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: And you know, in I I teach sexual health education, and one of the lessons that I teach is on problem solving and values and things like that.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: And something you just said, which is really important.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: The fifth and final step to problem solving and decision making is revisiting, did this work?
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Because not every time we try something, are we going to have success?
18:42
SPEAKER_00: We have to be able to say, well, that was a bomb.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: That was a total fail.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: Let's go back, let's go back to the drawing board here, right?
18:51
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: That's resilience.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: And we make it sound so easy.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: You and I.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: It's so, it's so hard.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: It is.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: It is.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's exceptionally hard now with the mental health crisis that we're in, with teenagers and young adults, and children who have ADHD, or children who have anxiety and not stress, because we all have stress, but you know, generalized anxiety disorder or social anxiety, or they're struggling with OCD or depression.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Resilience is hard because the mental illness and the mental health struggles make it exceptionally challenging to be resilient, which is a whole other subject.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: It's a good point.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: But it's not always easy.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: We have to think about who the child really is, what their capacity is, not to think they can't do it, but to meet them where they are and meet them where they're at and say, okay, this is what we're dealing with.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: How can we make this work for you?
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Where you are.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: And you're 100% right about mental health because it creates that fear in a parent.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: They're so afraid that the kid's going to start spiraling that they want to fix the problem so quickly so that they don't go there.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: So you're right.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: The second there's a mental health issue, all of a sudden the parent becomes really overprotective and really super coddly and really afraid to let them try, let them fail.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've you've got a strong kid and you go, okay, what do you think you should do?
20:40
SPEAKER_01: How do you think you should handle it?
20:42
SPEAKER_01: And then they try it.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: And if they if it fails, you know your kid can come back to you and go, that didn't work very well.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: What else?
20:48
SPEAKER_01: But if you have a kid that has mental health issues, you're scared.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: You're scared.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: You're scared.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: And it really ties into your question about the struggles.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: Right?
20:58
SPEAKER_00: It is a very real struggle for parents and for young adults who are struggling with mental health issues.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: It's a different ballgame.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, fear plays a huge part in it for parents.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Ken Ginsberg is a pediatrician, an author, and the creator of the seven seas of resilience.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: He is.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Now we're not going to get into all of them, maybe just a few of the key ones.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: But recently I listened to him talk about his favorite one.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: He said this is his favorite one, but I'm sure he was just saying that for you know effect.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: But he said it was connection.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you want to list off the seven C's, and then before I get, I I talk about what he said.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: I would love to.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: There's competence, confidence, connection, contribution, character, coping, and control.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: And they all start with the letter C.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: So we say the seven C's, it's a Pretty good plan words.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: What came first?
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm really glad you said that because one thing that Dr.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Ginsberg likes to stress is that these don't happen in order.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: You may have strength more, you may be stronger in some of your C's than you are in some of the other areas of resilience.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: You may need to focus more on building a certain quality, resilience quality, and the and the protective factors in your life have to outweigh the risk factors.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: You have to have more going for you, right?
22:44
SPEAKER_00: And when I say going for you, you have to have more of these protective factors like connection and character and coping and control than the risk factors like mental health or poverty or drug addiction in your family, right?
23:02
SPEAKER_00: These are risk factors.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: So we have to try and strengthen these seven C's so that we have more protective factors that can help us through the difficulties and the adversity.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: And we also have to remember, like I said, these don't happen in order.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: And you're not going to have them all.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: And so kind of focusing on what are my strengths and what areas do I need to strengthen.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: So I want to tell you which one, you kind of said it already, but I want to tell you which one he said was his favorite.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: And he said it was connection.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: He said that connection is the foundation of resilience because it creates a sense of safety, belonging, and support.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: And he says, actually, I'm going to quote him when young adults feel deeply connected to their parents, their friends, or even a community, they're more likely to take the positive risks and handle failure and recover from setbacks because they know they are not alone.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: And that they have this, and I said, this emotional safety net that gives them the confidence to kind of face their challenges head on.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: He even says that connection helps with uh helps young adults to regulate their emotions, but we're not going there yet.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Because the reason why, though, I'll say it's because when they feel heard, valued, understood by the people that they trust, that it becomes easier for them to calm down, think clearly, and problem solve.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: There's a study out of Harvard that has through decades actually of research, yes, has said that all it takes is one adult.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: One adult that is consistent, reliable, available, honest.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: For one child to have one adult makes you exponentially more resilient.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: And reduces, not even reduces, it strengthens your resilience, right?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Because you know that someone cares, someone's there.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: And everything you're describing that Dr.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Ginsberg said, it gives you a soft landing.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: It gives you a sense of safety.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: I know that I can mess up and they still love me.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: I know that in difficult times, I have people.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Right?
25:31
SPEAKER_00: That I can count on, even if it's just one person.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: The power of one.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: Who's your person?
25:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, when and it's so funny because remember years ago when Facebook came out and everybody was like clamoring to have likes and friends and like and all this, not just likes, a lot of friends.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking to myself, these people aren't going to show up at my funeral.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: So here I am trying to imagine our kids, especially our song, our kids, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: And yet I said to them, You don't need that many people.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: You just need a best friend, a couple of good friends.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: So it's quality.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a quality and connection, not about it's not quantity.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: And these these influencers that have so many followers are often the ones that are the loneliest.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: That was her thing.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: Two people in your lifetime that you know without question, when the levy breaks, that they will be there for you.
26:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's all it takes.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Surround yourself with quality people.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: Not, it's not about how many, it's about who are those people and you know what, how much do they care about you?
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm celebrating 50 year, a 50-year friendship.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: I love that you're celebrating it, acknowledging it.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: We are.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: We're actually going away this weekend.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: And we feel we always feel so grateful that we have had each other in our lives for 50 years.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: It's an incredible feeling.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Again, you it's I don't need dozens.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: I I need her.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: And she needs me, and that's incredible.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: So that is very such a gift.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel that way.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: I want to know what is the of the seven C's of Ginsburg, seven C's, which one resonates well in your practice or even in your opinion?
27:45
SPEAKER_01: Because I told you about connection, but I want to know what you which ones you love.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: So we're going to talk about control because that's where regulation comes in.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: So we'll talk about that a little bit later.
27:57
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: I feel that confidence and confidence are so interwoven and it really starts when our children are young.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: These are building blocks, like Dr.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Ginsberg talks about.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: They build on each other, they feed off of each other.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, when you feel, when you feel like someone's given you, like a parent has given you the opportunity to show that you're good at something, or they celebrate you, not for your trophy, your GPA, you know, making a team, whatever it is, not for those reasons, but because you're good at something.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like, wow.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: So my daughter, to this day we laugh about it.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: My daughter used to look at me when she was like three years old or four years old, and she was like, Mama, I can do it, you know, like with this face, you know, like basically stop doing it for me, mom.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: And it is such a valuable lesson because she's just saying, let me, you know, and I then I'll feel confident.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Because the more we do something, and it's not about like getting it right every time or winning every time or getting external validation or praise.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: It's about the confidence we feel when we tried something and the one person or the people in our life that love us, we're like, great work, great try.
29:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Give it another, give it another shot, you know.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Then we feel confident about who we are, right?
29:33
SPEAKER_00: Because it's not about your grade, the grade you get on a paper.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: That's fleeting.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: But when you get positive feedback from the from that one person or from the people that love you, that's where the confidence comes in.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: So competence and confidence, and we can do that with our kids age appropriately throughout their lives.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we're talking about young adults.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: We can do it as it pertains to the effort they make to find their first job out of college, okay, or out of high school, right?
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Or in high school.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Our adult children are going to come to us all the time with new challenges and new struggles.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: And being able for them to feel like you believe in their ability to go at it on their own and to have given it their best effort.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: You don't get a trophy for it, but I'm proud of you.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: And that builds confidence.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
30:29
SPEAKER_01: You don't always, I mean, you're making a valid point about external validation.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: But I remember when I was younger and I wanted to learn how to ride a bike.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: And uh my mother tried to teach me, but it was dinner time and she gave up and she left.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: And I was, I was in like persistent that I was gonna learn how to ride this bike.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: And so I just kept going at it over and over and over again until eventually I got it.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: And I was so excited, but I was so excited for me.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: It's not yes, of course, I ran into the house and say, Mommy, mommy, I did it.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: I learned how to ride my bike, but I felt so incredible that I allowed myself to continue to practice until I got it.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: And that competence, a hundred percent.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it was Ginsburg that said it, but I say this a lot.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Competence breeds confidence.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: That's what Ginsburg said.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: They're intertwined.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: Competence breeds confidence.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: And that that's the key phrase in resilience.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of the first thing, right?
31:32
SPEAKER_00: We have to let them try so that they can feel proud of themselves.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: And then they start to feel confident and they show up that way with their peers at work, in school, with their family members, right?
31:49
SPEAKER_00: With that sense of, I'm okay.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:52
unknown: Yeah.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: It's not conceited, or you're not like full of yourself.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: Confidence is something that is lasting because it's internal, because you repetitively tried something over and over and built this sense of I can do it.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Confidence leads to confidence.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Silly example.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: But when my daughter and I would bake when she was really, really young, I did this with actually my son and my daughter.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't say that.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Both of my kids baked with me.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: But when it was time to like do something like stir, whatever, stirring, breaking an egg, I knew how important it was that I let them do that part and not fix it, especially not in front of them, if I would turn around and pull the, pull the eggshell out.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: That was one thing.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: But now my kids are both fantastic in the kitchen.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: My daughter's wonderful at baking, and my son can pull off all kinds of incredible meals because it started with letting them do something in the kitchen and not fixing it or not doing it for them.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: And it's the tiniest little things we do with for our children, or not for our children, but with our children that does this kind of, and again, people wonder well, you know, how do you get competent at something, right?
33:09
SPEAKER_01: So if we say competence breeds confidence, competence comes from practice.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: You don't instantly wake up and have this mad skill.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: You have to practice it.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: So nothing comes in instant, like nothing comes to us so quickly.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: We have to learn it.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: And the learning means failing.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: And so it's all, it's, it's all part of it, but it is, it is.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think the baking is a beautiful example, right?
33:34
SPEAKER_00: And it's where you and you can see it now in your adult children, right?
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Is that the confidence that they felt in the kitchen?
33:42
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't about making it perfect, it was about over and over.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: And then it led to this confidence, and now they love to bake, right?
33:49
SPEAKER_00: They do it on their own.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: You used a word that ties so much into what we were already talking about, but you were asking about which which of the seven C's are so important.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: And when you said with them, not for them.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's the connection.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: It was well, it was it was actually beautiful and spot on, you did it with them, and that built connection, it built built confidence, it built uh confidence, really wonderful.
34:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: And you know, uh this ties into coping also, which is one of the other seven seeds that I think is critical, especially in today's world.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: And it gets it's a great example, it's one of the seven seeds, it's a great example of something learned, right?
34:52
SPEAKER_00: We don't, we're not born with the ability to cope with stress, right?
34:57
SPEAKER_00: It's modeled.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: And then we watch our role models.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: How did daddy handle that when the person cut him off, you know, when he was driving?
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Or mom, how did mommy handle when she had a lot to do that day?
35:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, was she in the car screaming, you know, or was she like trying to make the best of it and figuring out, like, okay, let's make a list and let's figure out these schedules and do all these things, right?
35:22
SPEAKER_00: So coping is learned.
35:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: And how we manage stress is at the heart of coping.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's at the heart of what Dr.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Ginsberg is really talking about.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: The seven C's of resilience is about how do we cope with stress.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: And of course, we can learn mindfulness tools like breathing and counting and nature walks and physical exercise and all those things are incredibly important that we can integrate in our daily life.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: But coping is also about regulation.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Good segue.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: When things blow up and we're overwhelmed, and we see this so much in the kids today, everything is a crisis to them, right?
36:15
SPEAKER_00: Everything is like the end of the world, right?
36:18
SPEAKER_00: And there's no frustration tolerance.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: So if we learn coping tools, how do we manage stress, then we are so much more able to be resilient, to be able to bounce back, to be able to critically think about a situation, to know, okay, and I this is an example I use all the time.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Yellow light.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: We got a stop light, red, you know, green, yellow, red.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Red is a full stop, green is full go, yellow is hold on.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Let's just pause.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: Let's regulate and get the part of our brain that we need working back online.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Good.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Great.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: So now I want to yes, love it.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: So let's get into emotional regulation.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Perfect timing.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: So good.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: So define it because again, it's one of those terms: emotional dysregulation, emotional regulation, co-regulation.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: We throw it around because we know, but then we're asking parents to teach this, and they're like, I don't even know what it what it means.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: They know, they'll know after we're done with this conversation, they'll know.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: So if you can, if you don't mind, please define it, what emotional regulation is for the listener.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Emotional regulation is really the ability to manage and handle our feelings, not suppress them, not to avoid them, not pretend they're not there, not minimize them, right?
37:45
SPEAKER_00: But to notice them, name them, and then choose, right?
37:52
SPEAKER_00: How do I want to respond versus how do I react?
37:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's managing it.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: It's not, it kind of is like keeping your cool, right?
38:05
SPEAKER_00: So this builds confidence because when we realize that we have an opportunity every time we feel a big feeling, okay, we don't have to react to it.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean we're ignoring it, but we can go, okay, this is really overwhelming.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: And I need a minute.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: You know the expression, if you can name it, you can tame it.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: Because if you can name it, you acknowledge it's there.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: If you ignore it, then where does it go?
38:41
SPEAKER_00: It absorbs into our body because we're sponges.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: So emotional regulation is being able to name the emotion, gauge the intensity, choose a response, choose uh how we want to move forward with the knowledge that we're feeling this, right?
39:04
SPEAKER_00: Or this is happening.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: And it is so tied to resilience, right?
39:11
SPEAKER_00: And to confidence.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, I got through that.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm still here.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: One of the most wonderful outcomes or rewards from emotional regulation is the ability to recognize you could handle the emotion, and the emotion doesn't have to swallow you.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't have to swallow you.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: It's there.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: And some I always like talk to my clients every age.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, I work primarily with adolescents, young adults, and adults in individual therapy.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: And I always say, just pause, engage it.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, how bad is this?
39:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, is it a 10?
39:56
SPEAKER_00: Is it a four?
39:58
SPEAKER_00: Like if you give it a number, it almost feels more manageable.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Separate from yourself.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: I love that you said that because I have an exercise that I do with my clients who are struggling with anxiety, where I have them picture and, you know, I have them move over on my couch.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I want you to picture the anxiety sitting next to you.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: What does it look like?
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Is it a he or a she?
40:25
SPEAKER_00: What are they saying?
40:26
SPEAKER_00: What color are they?
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: What does it feel like if you get up and you start walking?
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Is are they in front of you?
40:32
SPEAKER_00: Are they behind you?
40:34
SPEAKER_00: Are they on top of you?
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Being able to see anxiety as something that you can manage and control, right?
40:44
SPEAKER_00: It's not in control of you.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to take you over.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: Right?
40:48
SPEAKER_00: It's separate.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: It's it's in you, but you have the ability and the tools to choose how you want to respond to it.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: So that it's not in control of you.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: So even though some babies are like again, born with these temperaments, so some of them are they they're they're better at it, at emotional regulation, it is something that is learned and by way of modeling.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: But it but it can work both ways.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: I want to explain this because a lot of people say, well, I didn't come from you know uh that and my parent wasn't like that.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: But I I always say that you can learn how not to be from your parents.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: That's a great point.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna share a very personal story because I didn't have that type of like of modeling from my my mother.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember so clearly, Mickey, how my mother would handle stressful situations.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: She was terrible at managing her emotions.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: When she was upset, you couldn't talk to this woman.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: You could barely be around her.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: And I would try everything.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, I guess maybe I developed the people-pleasing part of myself.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: So I would try to humor her, I would try to distract her.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it worked, but sometimes, or most times I would say she just wanted to stay in this emotionally dysregulated state.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: And it really bothered me.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: But I realized at some point that my mother had a lot of unmet needs from her childhood.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: And that level of drama is how she got attention.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: And there was nothing that I could do.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: And here's what's so sad that when you are so, and we've touched on this, when you are so emotionally dysregulated and you cannot settle yourself, it actually has such a negative impact on your body, right?
42:47
SPEAKER_01: The stress hormone of cortisol raises, you know, it affects your your body and your mind so much that you're you develop a weakened immune system, you develop inflammation, your sleep is affected, and you basically put your body at a higher risk of uh disease and chronic conditions.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, because my mother was constantly like this and never did any work to help herself, she actually died at the age of 63.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: So when you say you have your mother, it's like, I'm so happy for you because it is a terrible loss when your mother passes.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: But I think that she almost gave up and that she allowed these her emotions to just take over and she she allowed that the cortisol just was constantly flowing in her body.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, yeah, I learned how not to be so overreactive, and I learned how to recover quicker because of my mother, because it bothered me so much that she could not manage her emotions.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: It it made me so uncomfortable to watch and it made her sick.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: So please don't ever use that as an excuse that you didn't have the right parenting.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: You learn how not to be by your parenting or your parents, I should say.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: Your level of honesty and transparency is so refreshing, Shari.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: That was a really amazing story for you to tell.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: And just listening to you and your language, and I can see that you've done the work because she did it.
44:30
SPEAKER_03: Right.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: And yes, our parents can be role models, positive or negative.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: Role model doesn't always imply a good thing.
44:42
SPEAKER_03: No.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: Because we sometimes have role models that are not positive role models, that people we do not want to be like, right?
44:50
SPEAKER_00: So I love what you said.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: We can learn from our parents' mistakes and choose to do things differently.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: We don't have to fall back on the excuse, if you will, well, I didn't know better, or I didn't learn, or that wasn't how I was raised.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: We hear this all the time, right?
45:15
SPEAKER_00: We have to do our own work.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: Therapy is a great way to develop tools for regulation, right?
45:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: Also being able to regulate gives us this feeling like we have options, right?
45:36
SPEAKER_00: Knowing that I have a choice.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: I have a choice on how I react.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: How long do I want to sit in this?
45:45
SPEAKER_00: How miserable do I want to make myself and everyone else for how long?
45:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right?
45:50
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: He just reminded me of a story.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: I want to share this with you because you keep saying it.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, I don't want to say another story, but I have to tell you, my father and my mother were very opposite people.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: They were divorced when I was young.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: So I had to get to know my father.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: He moved away.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: He was like a hippie kind of dad.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: My mother was wound up, as you obviously got that sense.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: And I remember telling my father a story about how upset I was.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: It was probably about a boyfriend or something.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: He did this and he did that.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: And my father goes, Yeah, go on, tell me more.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and then he did this and then he did that.
46:20
SPEAKER_01: He goes, tell me more.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and then he and I was like just kind of spewing.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Okay, are you are you done?
46:27
SPEAKER_01: And like, yeah, I'm done.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: That's the story.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Okay, so so now what?
46:33
SPEAKER_01: I go, what do you mean?
46:34
SPEAKER_01: He goes, Well, for are you still upset?
46:37
SPEAKER_01: I go, I mean, yeah.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: He goes, okay, but for how long?
46:42
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean for how long?
46:43
SPEAKER_01: I was so young.
46:44
SPEAKER_01: I go, what do you mean for how long?
46:45
SPEAKER_01: He goes, how long are you going to be upset?
46:49
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it was the first moment in my life I realized that I could actually make the decision that I'm feeling these emotions.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: He was allowing me to ex to get it all out.
47:01
SPEAKER_01: And then he said to me, Okay, like you can't, for how long are you going to sit with this for?
47:06
SPEAKER_01: Because you can decide at any point when you're ready to kind of reel it all in, take that deep breath, come to realize that it's over and that you can regulate your emotions by even asking that one question.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay, for how long?
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Because it's the rumination.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: And for for weeks and months and years that people the holding on, the holding on to that to that.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: Anger and resentment.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: Anger and resentment.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: The grudges of the world that never let go.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: So for how long is a great way for you to go?
47:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this happened.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: How long are you going to let it bother you?
47:45
SPEAKER_00: We have choices.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: We have choices.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: Are we going to let our emotions drive us, or are we going to take control, acknowledge our emotions, name our emotions, and choose what we want to do with the controls.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: You said control.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: Yes, the control comes from ourselves that we can control or manage these emotions.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: It's okay to feel them, but you can control.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: It's so empowering.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: I want to clarify for the listeners that controlling it doesn't mean it's controlling.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: You're not being controlling, right?
48:20
SPEAKER_00: It's actually the opposite, which is kind of interesting.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: You're making a choice to let go, right?
48:27
SPEAKER_00: You're making a choice to say, what else am I going to do with this?
48:32
SPEAKER_00: Or how am I going to use this as knowledge and information so I can move forward instead of letting it control you.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: Right.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: So we're getting to that point where I start to want to offer suggestions, tools, tips, actionable steps for parents to be able to teach their young adults, even if they can't model it themselves necessarily, to realize that you can teach your young adult how to manage their emotions, how to become more resilient.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: So what first of all, I just want to know what are some examples that you see in young adults who are struggling to manage their emotions?
49:11
SPEAKER_01: When they're sitting in front of you and you know that this is a young adult or even an adult that is not managing their emotions, that is not regulating them, what what do you see?
49:21
SPEAKER_01: What are some of the signs that you see that you know instantly this is where you got to do the work?
49:26
SPEAKER_00: I mostly see people pleasing.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: And this is when young adults are either dysregulated or they haven't been given the opportunity to build resilience, or they had uh an emotionally immature parent who was dysregulated, right?
49:47
SPEAKER_00: What I see is they don't know how to problem solve.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: They people please, right?
49:54
SPEAKER_00: They appease and please.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: They don't, they they want to give you the answer they think that you want to hear, right?
50:02
SPEAKER_00: Because they don't feel confident to express what they're feeling.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: I have a feeling wheel that I keep laminated on my on my glass coffee table in in my office.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: I always laugh about it because I think the adults use it more than the teenagers actually.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: And they don't they can't name their emotions.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: They don't even know what they're feeling.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: So I use this wheel as a tool.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is just vocab.
50:29
SPEAKER_00: That's all.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: Let's just look and see what some of the vocabulary is to, you know, describe what you're feeling and then let's give it a name, right?
50:38
SPEAKER_00: They can't name it.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I see these children, these adult children, they can't think critically about things, right?
50:46
SPEAKER_00: They shut, they shut down.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: And these are the kids that you find really have a hard time moving forward, launching, you know, tribute to your the title of your podcast.
51:00
SPEAKER_03: Right.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: And moving into the next stage of life.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: They don't feel equipped, right?
51:06
SPEAKER_00: What do you suggest?
51:09
SPEAKER_00: What I suggest is a couple of things.
51:11
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: With parents, I think that we have to realize that we have to put our own oxygen mask on first.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: It is the old additive when I mean the phrase, uh, the whole speech you feel you get when you get on the airplane, right?
51:32
SPEAKER_00: Where they're like, please put on your oxygen mask before that of your child or the person next to you.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: That is a life lesson.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: If you're not taking care of yourself, you if you're not breathing, you can't take care of anyone else.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: So I encourage parents to notice what you need to work on.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: Notice your strengths and weaknesses, right?
52:00
SPEAKER_00: And notice how it's impacting your children and your family and your relationships.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: I would say that other tools are giving children the opportunities, like we've talked about, right, to name and validate what they feel.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: And what I teach for emotionally dysregulated young adults or adults who struggle to foster and build this resilience is I teach them how to regulate through breath, how to regulate through counting.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: I teach a lot of cognitive behavioral tools to help them challenge the thoughts and these narratives, these messages that have been holding them back.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: The messages that say you can't or don't, or that's too scary, right?
52:57
SPEAKER_00: One of the tools is let them be uncomfortable to realize they can work through discomfort, right?
53:06
SPEAKER_00: And we use our paws.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: I teach a lot about um the prefrontal cortex.
53:14
SPEAKER_00: With teenagers, it's not fully developed, right?
53:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: So I talk about it from that angle and I'll explain.
53:22
SPEAKER_00: And then with young adults who are maybe 25 or 26 years old, whose brains are most likely more developed, you know, or fully developed, because I don't think we should can really put a full number on it, an age number, because there are so many variables that impact the development of our developing brains.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: But the prefrontal cortex is where we problem solve and set goals and regulate and think critically, decision making all happens here.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: When we are dysregulated, when we're stressed, the part of our brain that we need the most is the prefrontal cortex.
54:05
SPEAKER_00: And it has gone completely offline.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: It's like a computer.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: When it's not working and it's glitching and whatever, well, our first reaction is to do what?
54:14
SPEAKER_00: Like start pounding on the keys, or you know, we're like, what is it?
54:17
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
54:19
SPEAKER_00: When really it's that moment that we're like, we need it needs a break, it's hot, it's overheated, right?
54:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:27
SPEAKER_00: And then we start glitching literally and figuratively.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we can't speak.
54:33
SPEAKER_00: We can't use the part of our brain we need the most.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: So we have to get it back online.
54:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: And we do that through breath, through pause.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: We have to say, I am useless right now.
54:48
SPEAKER_00: I can't make decisions, I'm overwhelmed, I'm stressed.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make you not resilient.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: That means you have full awareness, which is actually pretty regulated, right?
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Awareness that I need a break.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's a huge thing for parents too.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: When your child becomes dysregulated, regardless of the age, be a safe place for them, but give them permission to take a pause.
55:20
SPEAKER_00: Don't start firing questions at them.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: Don't start at don't start screaming.
55:26
SPEAKER_00: What's wrong with you?
55:28
SPEAKER_00: Instead say, I think we both need a minute.
55:33
SPEAKER_00: And that minute might be an hour or 30 minutes, okay?
55:38
SPEAKER_00: And then I always say, then revisit, but give yourself some time and some space, both of you.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the kid's gonna be like, I can't talk to you right now.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: But really, what they're saying is I need a break.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm dysregulated, nothing's working up here.
55:56
SPEAKER_03: Right.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: And the only healthy response is okay.
56:01
SPEAKER_00: We both do.
56:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: In that pause, you can use that time pretty wisely about thinking, once you kind of get, you know, because you're gonna go to your room, or you're gonna go in the backyard, or you're gonna walk around the block and you're fuming or you're crying.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: Get it out.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: And then when it passes or subsides, or you can measure, okay, I'm not at a 10 anymore, I'm a four, or I'm a six, things seem to be starting to work.
56:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:35
SPEAKER_00: Then think about how you want to revisit the conversation or the situation.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: This goes for the parent and the child, regardless of age, right?
56:46
SPEAKER_00: And I say regardless of age, a younger child needs the parent to be there for safety reasons.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: And maybe the break is just we choose quiet time, like we take a key, lock the mouth, and everyone's quiet, but we're sitting together.
57:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
57:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: For safety reasons.
57:03
SPEAKER_00: So then we return and say, let's try that again.
57:08
SPEAKER_03: Right.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: I think that this is what I did wrong, and I'm sorry.
57:15
SPEAKER_00: How can we start off?
57:17
SPEAKER_00: How can I help?
57:19
SPEAKER_00: Right?
57:20
SPEAKER_00: That helps a young adult, a teenager, regulate, yes, feel safe, feel connected, feel seen, and feel in control of their emotions and their thoughts and their choices.
57:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:38
SPEAKER_01: And I love that you said that because a lot of times if a parent and child are having a heated argument, first of all, and you're very it's 100% correct.
57:46
SPEAKER_01: It's all happening in the front of our brain.
57:48
SPEAKER_01: The emotional part of it is all happening in the back of our brain, the amygdala.
57:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
57:52
SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like they're not.
57:53
SPEAKER_01: So you're right, we have nothing's happening here, it's all happening here.
57:56
SPEAKER_01: When we calm down, when we breathe, we we the everything starts to get into check again.
58:02
SPEAKER_01: But I love the fact because a lot of times parents will like, okay, the kid has calmed down, I'm calmed down, and they never revisit that conversation.
58:10
SPEAKER_01: And that is so important.
58:11
SPEAKER_01: So I call, I call families like that rug stuffers because they just put it away, they don't want to deal with it again, they're afraid it's gonna get heated.
58:19
SPEAKER_01: But actually, when you go back into that situation and everything is calmed down and everyone's regulated, and now the prefrontal cortex can think logically again and come up with the solutions, that is when you're supposed to have the conversation.
58:33
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Not when your amygdala is hijacked, right?
58:37
SPEAKER_00: And that's your emotional center.
58:39
SPEAKER_00: That's what kicks in first, emotion, right?
58:43
SPEAKER_00: For anybody.
58:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like we get heated really quickly, we get angry.
58:48
SPEAKER_00: And dysregulated, uh, when we're dysregulated, when we don't have resilience, we're being controlled by emotion.
58:57
SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
58:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's a pretty primitive way to show up in the world.
59:04
SPEAKER_00: And we have to learn how to use the prefrontal cortex so that we can regulate, so we can manage stress, so we can feel more resilient, and we can return and have more mature and healthier conversations and connections.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: We don't stuff it, like you say.
59:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:21
SPEAKER_00: We have to return to it.
59:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:23
SPEAKER_00: And we have to return in a um clearer state, yeah.
59:27
SPEAKER_00: A more regulated state.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: Mickey, I always love to leave on a positive note, and I think there's been a ton of positive stuff here, but what is the one piece of advice that you can offer parents when it comes to teaching or modeling either resilience or emotional regulation?
59:44
SPEAKER_00: Work on yourself first.
59:46
SPEAKER_00: Recognize it's never too late.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: Because resilience is learned, because regulation can be taught and learned, if we work on ourselves, we can show up in a much more mature way for our kids at any age.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_00: It's not about it being perfect, it's about being there and about connecting, right, with your child and trying to remind them that you're not there to fix them, you're there to work with them.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and so that kind of connection and foundation in the parent-child relationship, again, it's never too late, and it starts with the adult.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: And I truly believe that when a parent shows up in a way that's loving and supportive, their children will feel that.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's gonna help them build the confidence, the resilience, and the regulation that they need to tackle life's inevitable challenges.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_01: Beautifully said.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_01: Beautifully said.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_01: Nikki, thank you so much for spending this time with me today.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_01: I I think this has been a great conversation.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: I really, really do.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_01: And I hope it has helped parents to really understand now what resilience and emotional regulation is, and that these aren't traits that our kids are just going to magically show up with, that we do have to teach it and model it and practice it in ourselves.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_01: And thank you for all your suggestions.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_01: They've been incredible.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: You are a delight, and I'm glad that I'm so I'm so flattered that you asked me to be a guest.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_00: And I loved our first conversation, which was an immediate connection.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you so much, and thanks for being so vulnerable today.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I love having you, and I felt, you know what, you gave me that space.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_00: So this is on you.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_01: But you are welcome back anytime, and I'm sure we're gonna do this again.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Shari.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll talk soon.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_01: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
1:02:20
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1:02:26
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1:02:31
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1:02:44
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1:02:50
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