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Pets are Family · Millennial Mental Health Channel

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But just remember pets are not just presents. Like, if you get someone
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a pet for a present, please expect to have them for ten to fifteen
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years. This is Millennial Mental Health Channel. I'm doctor Justin Romano, a
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child adolescent psychiatry fellow, and I'm Medikoreo, a licensed clinical therapist. Our
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podcast is here because we want to start a much need conversation about mental health.
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Our goal is to teach you as much as we can by sharing our
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own experiences and interviewing experts in the mental health field. We will discuss topics
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like mood disorders, psychotic disorders, substance use, personality disorders, and many
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more. Millennial Mental Health Channel buy Millennials for everyone. We hope you enjoyed
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today's episode. MMHC is a production of Speaker from iHeartMedia. I HEARTMA.
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Welcome back to Millennial Mental Health Channel. We're here with mister Eddie Corio.
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How are you doing, sir? I mean, you know how it is
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same different disco. Unfortunately, you're right. If I had a dollar for
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every time I panicked at a disco, it's just have about seven dollars.
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I'd have exactly seven bucks. How you doing, my friend, good man.
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Just happy to be back, happy to see your face, Just happy
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to get back to it. It's always funny when we can, when we
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can record. So yeah, no complaints here, I know. I always
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have a fun time checking in with you seeing how things are going. You
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got any shout outs for me? Anyone you wanna to elevate today? No?
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Yeah, you know what me me? I don't think I do.
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Wait a minute, I got one. Can I shout out? Eddie Jose
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Correo? Have we ever done this? Have we ever shouted each other out?
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I don't think we have shout out justin too Now we're just getting cheesy
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topic for We're talking about pets because pets are a family in my opinion and
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the opinion of a lot of people in this world. The reason why we
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chose this topic for today is because my wife's family just had to put down
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their dog Lucy. So I did actually want to give a shout out to
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lou behar and she was such a good dog, such a lover, such
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a cuddler. But it got me thinking about the bond that humans have with
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their dogs and how and why it is so hard to lose pets so in
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our experience. Yeah, I fully believe that pets are family, and losing
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a pet is often the first time people are confronted with death and loss growing
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up. Either you lose like a grandparent or you lose a pet. Those
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tend to be the two most common, and we figured this would be a
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good time to talk about this kind of stuff on the show and give some
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interesting facts and things. The topic you bring over, like the idea you
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bring up of like losing a pet is the first time some people are confronted
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with like loss. And I just think of like little kids. Often,
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like a little kid, like a parent gets a dog or they have a
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dog around the same time a kid is born, and they like grow up
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with it, and then they go, you know, they're ten, twelve,
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thirteen, fourteen years of life, and the life that the kid knows
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is with the with the pet. You know, I don't know, man,
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I can't imagine. I my family and I have a dog, and
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it just I didn't grow up with it. So I think there's probably not
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a disconnect, but it's just it's different for me than when I consider other
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people who like grew up with their pets, like going through these like formidable
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years of like the awkwardness of middle school, like your first heartbreak of high
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school. But then you have this like I guess I'm just thinking of dogs,
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but you have this like happy, flappy dog that's just excited to see
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you no matter what, and to be able to come home to that.
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I can't imagine how how helpful that probably is for a lot of people.
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It sounds like you're not necessarily a pet guy then, because you didn't grow
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up with pets. I like animals. I like dogs. I know we
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you know, Kevy loves dogs. We'd be happy to have a dog at
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some point, but yeah, we just never really grew up with I had
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a hamster, a bunch of fish, but it just is not the same.
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Yeah, you know, I actually this is probably looking back on it,
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probably shouldn't have done it. I shouldn't start like that. That sounds
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like I did something really bad. In like elementary school, we had this
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unit on crawdads, crayfish, the little like mini lobsters, and when the
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unit ended, the teacher I don't know what the teacher was going to do
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with it, but the teacher gave us the opportunity to keep one and my
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parents let me keep one, and I think I had it for like three
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days and it died, So I don't know if we really should have tried
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to keep it. I don't know. Yeah, it went from crawdad to
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crawdad pretty quick. FuG man, God, Sorry, you know, I
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became a father and the dad jokes just I can feel them flowing through me.
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I don't know why you're acting like you didn't have them before. That's
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true, and I use that as an excuse. I've always been there.
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Oh shit, Okay, I'm done sharing personal details. I'm just gonna make
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fun of my my three day fucking craw you and that Crawdad had a real
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bond and of that. I am sure mindfulness moment for today, Eddie.
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And this is kind of a cheesy mindfulness moment. But what animal do you
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relate to the most, Crawdad? No, I don't know, man,
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the the lazy like pit pulls that like just kind of chill all day.
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We'll go with that. Cool. I like it. You know. I
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was gonna say a type of dog too, but like a probably like a
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cattle dog or a working dog. Just because I'm I'm a big people pleaser,
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always have been just so I always want to make people happy. I
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want to work hard. I love chasing around sheep in open fields. So
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it's just it's just as it's my jam working dog, a working dog,
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a real American dog, if you know what I mean. Any any stories
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for me about pets, pet relationships, animals, you want, you want,
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you want to tell? I think just thinking of like how many people
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I have known had a family member who actually he was kind of the who
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I thought of when I was telling like, you know, thinking of kids
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who grow up with a with a pet, or is there kind of for
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their whole lifetime, who within the last year or so lost a dog that
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he'd pretty much grown up with, And thinking of I mean, we'll talk
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about it later, but just how much emotional support animals have come up And
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I have my own thoughts on it and I can share that. But for
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better or for worse, like animals are huge supports for people. They they
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listen, even if they're not like really listening to or comprehending, they're there
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for us. So yeah, that's my that's my spiel. It's not a
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whole lot that was. Okay, Well, my story is I lost my
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cat when she was ten years old. I was about twenty two, was
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about ten years ago. Now. It was a pretty traumatic loss because we
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think she was taken by coyotes outside of my parents' house in Colorado, So
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that that thought of her like being killed by coyotes was just really really hard.
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Thinking that she may have suffered too was also super hard. But after
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she went missing, we didn't quite know what had happened yet, so I
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just spent days just wandering the fields out looking for her, and I eventually
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found her collar in an empty field with what looked like a tooth mark on
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it, had like a puncture mark into the collar, and so yeah,
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I was pretty shaken up. This was one of the first times that my
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wife saw me crying, and I was bawling my eyes out, and I
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grieved in the best way that works for me. And if you guys are
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listeners of this show, oh, you know that music and writing songs tends
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to be the way that I process this stuff. So I wrote a song
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about it, and it really helped me process those emotions, go through the
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stages of grief, and eventually get to the point of acceptance. And now
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I focus now that it's ten years on. I focus on the good times,
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the fact that we had ten great years together with my cat, and
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try not to focus on that last tragic day. But boy, yeah,
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so when we were talking about pets, we're talking about losing pets. I
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feel it. And I still play that song from time to time too,
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and it brings back all the emotions and helped me process it even more.
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Thanks man for sharing that. Fuck that's tough. Yeah, sharing it.
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Well, history, do you want to give some history or do you want
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to give some stats and facts? How are we doing that? Let's do
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it. Let's give it a little history for you. So hold on,
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I had a whole bit I planned out for this, actually, so I
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love how much we like plan out it. Say different shit. Welcome back
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to Millennial Mental Health Channel's history out today. We are all talking about pets.
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So, according to psychology today, man first started domesticating dogs around thirty
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thousand years ago. There's apparently still some debate as to when exactly and where
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this happened, but this is the this is the theory, the thought that
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about thirty thousand years ago this started to happen. Dogs are also believed to
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be the first domesticated app animals, even before horses and cows, And we
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apparently used to compete with dogs for food, but when we started working together,
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we both benefited. So dogs knew what was good for them and they
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stepped aside because they knew human was gonna win. Yes, some researchers believe
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that dogs helped humans become better hunters because humans harnessed a dog sense of smell
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and that allowed them to track prey better. Dogs are faster than humans,
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I think that's an objective fact. Not faster than meat, but they're faster
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than most humans, and so that allowed them to increase the speed of the
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prey that they could catch as well. And dogs are also natural pack hunters,
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so they could have helped or they could have even helped us understand how
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to more effectively hunt in different strategies to catch more elusive prey. If you
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know one thing about pets in I guess I can just say in the United
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States or probably in general, there's like two schools of thought, right,
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There's team dog and team cat. So I just want to talk about cats
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for a little bit. Yeah, they're domesticated about ten thousand years ago by
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humans in the Fertile Crescent justin tell us what that is. Mesopotamia area.
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Oh, I haven't heard the word Mesopotamia in a long long time. Well
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you're wellme time. I took ap World History like an idiot because I,
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for whatever reason, thought I was going to do well in that class and
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I didn't. And I think that really just goes to show that there's no
10:56
reason to really push yourself too much in school. Just do enough, don't
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overly stress yourself out, and you two one day can have a podcast with
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one of your best buds that has over one hundred and sixty reviews on Apple
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Podcasts. Bingo. It's all about the reviews, and I did just google
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it. The Fertile Crescent is a crescent shaped or a croissant shaped region in
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the Middle East, spanning modern Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine,
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and Jordan. During this time, humans started to shift from being hunter
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gatherers to more agricultural They had to store stockpiles of grains, which attracted rodents,
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and as you know from Tom and Jerry, rodents were taken care of
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by wildcats used on the rodents, and they had no taste for the grain,
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so they would just take care of those. And then in the ancient
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Egypt they worshiped cats. Then in thirty one BC or BCE, depend on
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which one you prefer to use, Egypt became a Roman province and the Roman
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Empire saw the value of having cats around and spread the pet around the world.
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So kind of cool. I didn't know that. Yeah, I kind
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of knew that Egypt was really into cats, but I didn't know that was
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the Roman Empire that was the ones that kind of spread cats around. In
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terms of cats stats and facts, there are an estimated seventy six million pet
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dogs in the United States and fifty eight million pet cats. Seventy of American
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households have a pet, which really makes me think, God, damn,
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my parents did not growing up. Damn I didn't realize, no comment,
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no next step. Three point five million households have a horse, which I
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thought was interesting. That's actually more than I thought because horses seemed like a
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giant pain in the butt to me. Pet ownership has actually gone up over
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the past couple of decades. So maybe that maybe maybe back in the day
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when I didn't have a pet growing up, that was that could have been
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there to support me and held me through tough times. H Imagine that's why
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because it just wasn't as common. Imagine how much more emotionally stable you would
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have been had you had a dog. Actually, I think you'll find out
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that the research actually does not agree with that statement. But according to the
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National Retail Foundation, Americans spend a half billion with a per year on costumes
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for their pets. That is quintessential America half a billion dollars on pet costumes.
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I gotta admit I once bought a dinosaur costume from my dog, Freckles,
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and we called her Tyrannosaurus Frecks. That's it was pretty cuy. You
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talked about research a little bit. What do you got for me? I
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was thinking, I'm gonna go into this. I'm gonna look up some meta
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analyses like I usually do and find that, oh, pet ownership is great,
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like there's nothing bad about it. I was actually pretty wrong about that,
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so Martins at All in twenty twenty three, So a recent meta analysis
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on the impact of pet ownership on physical activity showed that, yes, actually
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having a pet does increase your overall physical activity, but not all the other
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studies show positive things. I've actually seen. I think Kevin and I have
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bone seen this. Our neighbor walks their dog a lot, and he looks
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like he is in better shame, and I think that's pretty cool. Yeah,
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we talked about recently, like he goes in. I don't know if
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he does it at the same time anymore, but it used to be when
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I'd leave for work, I would see him walking the dog and it looked
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like it had a good impact on his school. So that's one anecdotal evidence.
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Conversely, Scorbsey at All in twenty twenty one did a systematic review not
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systemic or maybe systemic, I don't know of the literature, and found insufficient
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evidence that pet ownership improved general mental health. And the interesting thing about meta
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analyzes and systematic reviews is that it's like a study of studies, so they
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incorporate multiple different different studies, trials, things like that, so it's actually
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pretty good evidence. There was also a study of pet ownership during the pandemic
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that showed that pet owners had lower vitality, lower satisfaction or life satisfaction,
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less meaning to their life, and higher loneliness. I could not believe this
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one because you'd think that a pet would be perfect in that time when you
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couldn't interact with other people, but it was the opposite. Do you think
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it was just because people would rather spend the time with their I guess you
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couldn't really go anywhere anyway. What do they give a reason? You know,
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not really they you know, kind of hypothesized and theorized, but there's
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no way of knowing for sure. But yeah, that one just totally floored
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me. I don't know. Maybe they had a theory, but they didn't
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want to put it in because then maybe it would have contradicted their I don't
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know. I don't know. Because you're you're surprised by it, I'm surprised
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by it. That's okay. There have been some smaller individual studies that have
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shown that pets decrease cardio vascular risk, asthma, and algae rates, but
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the evidence isn't super strong. So again it's it's probably it's there, but
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it's just not enough to be like, yes, this is this is factual,
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and these studies often cannot be reciprocated. One thing to think about is
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the whole field of psychology is kind of similar. Yeah, a lot of
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studies are hard to reciprocate. We're never going to do the Stanford prison experiment
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again. Don't ever try and ask. The International Review Board is not going
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to say yes, the Stanley Milgrim experiment. Same thing. I don't know,
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there's just it's just it's just important to think about that too. As
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a consumer of information, it's important when studies can be reciprocated or replicated,
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and oftentimes the psychology they can't. Yeah, and that's why when I look
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for evidence to put in this show, I do look for studies that incorporate
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data from multiple studies, big swaths of data and information, because a lot
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of times one study means absolutely nothing, and you can have you can have
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one study that says anything. We The last study we want to talk about
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is from two thousand and five from Mecnicholas at All, which found ninety percent
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of pet owners regard their pet as a valued family member. So similar to
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what we were talking about at the beginning, pets may benefit older people in
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terms of their health, and also may benefit people recovering from major illness,
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so might help them recover a little bit better. But loss of a pet
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may cause great distress to owners. So that's kind of what the study was
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saying, and something that's probably not new information to anyone, but losing pets
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is like losing a family member and going to be and it can be incredibly
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hard. You know, when it says loss of pet may cause it's just
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it's like, yeah, no, shit, Like the studies got to put
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stuff like that because it can't be talking in absolutes exactly. Well, we
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got a lot of stats, we got a lot of history. We talked
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a lot about cats. Now we discuss what do you think would be an
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animal that would make a terrible pet? Great question? You know, I
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gotta admit never been a bird guy. I had a friend growing up who
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had a bird named Coco, and it would just it knew two things,
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or at least I only remember it saying two things. It would say hairy
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Coco, and it would also whistle part of the Andy Griffith theme song.
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It was a cockatoo, and so you'd hear it go oh, but it
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wouldn't finish the song. And so that's so the reason why I laughed.
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My parents have and I also think it's a very Mexican thing to have birds.
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So talking about squirt, like a couple episodes ago. Another Mexican have
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birds? I think birds and squirt. I'm learning so much about latinx culture
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here. Is there a specific type of bird that's common with Mexican people?
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Uh, the one that you can buy at the flea market of the swamp
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meat. I don't know, man, I don't know what kind of bird
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it is. And they always look the same, my grandpa, Yeah,
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it's always the same one. I didn't know if it was like exotic parrots
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or anything like that. A nice macaw, a blue macaw or something.
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Who knows. What about you? What makes the worst pet in your opinion,
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other than product? Probably probably a fuck man? Probably a komodo dragon?
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Agreed, that sounds like a terrible pet. Which one's the one?
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HeLa monster? Oh? Yeah, those are bad, right? Those are
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dangerous? Yes? And monitor lizards are a huge problem in Florida because they
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they were pets and then they got out and they thrive in Florida, and
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so they're like, yeah, just swim in the swamp and destroy everyone's pets.
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Pythons too, right in Florida. Different. Yeah, I've seen those
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like Animal Planet shows where they like try to go catch them because you get
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paid based on the length of how big they are. I was gonna make
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a bad porn star joke, but I will move on. I also did
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hear that a lot of times in Florida after big storms, pets will get
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out, and that's another big reason why they have a big problem with snakes
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and lizards in Florida. A lot of food going around. Oh, I
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guess it's not that they're thriving off the missing pets. What you mean is
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they like escapes, they are the missing pets. What would you suggest for
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people grieving pets. I think to try to normalize as much as possible,
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like what they're feeling. I think sometimes when people grieve in general, they
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feel like they are doing something wrong, or they shouldn't be feeling that way,
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or they're making a big deal out of nothing, and just really trying
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to normalize. Like like you mentioned, like these animals are part of your
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family, Like it's okay to be to be grieving, to be having a
21:10
hard time, like none of that is wrong. They've either you've spent years
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with them, or you spend a couple months with them, whatever it is.
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Pets just have that impact on us that that really can be hard to
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explain and hard to understand, but that doesn't make their passing or them leaving
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us like any less impactful. Totally. Yeah, I agree, it's just
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like grieving a family member. And I think in general in this country we're
21:34
terrible at grieving anything that we lose. But pets are a big one too.
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And I noticed that a lot of times people don't give pets the same
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rituals, the same pomp and circumstance if you will, in grieving, and
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so a lot of times people never really fully grieve and process pet or process
21:57
the loss of pets. My dogs choked on something behind me that was that
22:00
weird noise. Thank you, freckles. But I always encourage people if you
22:07
have lost a pet, try and grieve. I know it's and do things
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like do something intentional to grieve. We have a whole episode. I believe
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it was called good grieving or good grief something like that, and it's important
22:22
to do those types of things instead of just ignoring it, instead of just
22:26
trying to keep moving forward, give it a little bit of time and space
22:30
in your brain. Say some goodbyes, say some things, write something,
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have a ceremony, talk about it with your friends and family. Grieving tends
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to come in waves. I notice that people who lose pets, they'll be
22:45
like okay one day, and then something will happen, something will make them
22:48
remember that pet, and it'll come back and they'll get sad, they'll cry.
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So if you give it some time and space, you have a little
22:56
bit more control over it, and you're more likely to grieve proper. Years
23:00
ago, I was aware of these people that were grieving the loss of their
23:04
dog, and they explained to me, though, you know, we really
23:08
wanted to give it a proper burial, So we broke into the cemetery after
23:15
hours and we buried our dog in the cemetery. Eh. And I had
23:21
to keep a straight face because I don't think that's allowed. So so yes,
23:29
grieve, and also grieve legally. That's what I'll finish with. Grieve
23:33
legally. I already I found my take on point. There you go,
23:40
all right, Eddie. I know this next discussion question is a little bit
23:42
of a hot button issue for a lot of mental health providers. Emotional support
23:48
animals useful or a huge mess. I think, unfortunately, our society is
23:53
built upon taking advantage of stuff, So I think people have made it into
23:57
a huge mess. I know the premise of it, and I get it.
24:02
We've talked about how helpful animals can be, but the hard part is
24:06
like people really have ruined it for other people, like and it's mostly the
24:08
people that have means. It's the people that can, you know, pay
24:12
X amount of money to have some BS certificate made that says they're animals and
24:15
emotional support animals so they can bring them on the plane, or the people
24:19
that spend thirty dollars on Amazon on a vest that says ESA support Animal without
24:26
really understanding that if you read out the acronym, it's emotional support Animal Support
24:30
Animals. So that makes no sense. Yeah, and it's really taken away
24:34
from the people that have like actual like ADA disabilities that need like site dogs
24:38
or dogs that are actually can be helpful for like medical emergencies. I've had
24:42
a number of time where like a client will say something like, oh,
24:47
I found a loophole to having this dog in my apartment, and I'm like,
24:49
that's not I'm not signing anything, and it's just so unregulated, Like
24:55
you can end up in a lot of trouble if you sign off on an
24:57
animal being an emotional support animal, and then something happens it is not And
25:03
Kevin knows this too, and she's there with me. Whenever we see like
25:07
an animal on the airport, I'm always like, that's not a correct animal,
25:10
that shouldn't be in here. Stop stop that. And so I don't
25:15
know, people are really just ruining it for people who could probably actually benefit
25:18
from it, And I don't know how we get back from that. So
25:22
that's my thought on it. Yes, love your animals, Yes, your
25:23
animals can be great support, great help. And also stop taking advantage of
25:27
these like phony guys. You know there's airlines too that I'll just like stop
25:32
accepting them because they're not federally regularly, Like they don't have to accept someone
25:37
that says they have an emotional support animal. There's nothing that says they need
25:40
to. And unfortunately, like because of all that, that's ruined it for
25:42
other people who would actually probably benefit from one. I don't know, what
25:47
do you think I agree on a lot of that stuff. I remember a
25:49
couple of years ago I was at DIA Denver International Airport and there were dogs
25:56
everywhere. I think it was like traveling around the holidays, and I remember
25:59
thinking and turn into my wife and being like, what is going on?
26:03
It feels like it's a dog bound in here. It was ridiculous. And
26:07
then shortly after that that's when the airlines started pushing back and saying like,
26:11
Okay, this has gone too far. We can't keep doing this. But
26:15
the point that you made that I want to reiterate here is that emotional support
26:21
animals are not service dogs or service animals. And as a psychiatrist, I
26:26
always dread when people bring up like what do you think about emotional support animals?
26:32
And I'm like, uh, Like half the time the people asking aren't
26:37
ready for a pet. They can't take care of an animal. They could
26:40
barely take care of themselves sometimes, and it's like these animals might suffer,
26:45
they might go to a house that cannot really handle them, and you know,
26:48
they might just get a dog from the pound that has bad anxiety and
26:52
PTSD and might be worse off than the people who are adopting them. So
26:56
it's kind of a mess. I do have people asking all the time for
27:00
like, hey, we need we're moving, we need to get our dog
27:03
into this apartment. Write us a letter, And it's like, no,
27:07
that's not right. It's unethical for me to do that, so it causes
27:11
me a lot of problems and a lot of headaches. So luckily I don't
27:15
have to worry about that as much working with kids because usually the parents are
27:19
like, Nope, we're not doing that. But every once in a while
27:22
you get parents that want that. But there's documented stories of the most ridiculous
27:27
emotional support animals, Like there's one online like yeah, a peacock, a
27:33
Shetland pony, Like it's it's ridiculous and how could they possibly be an emotional
27:41
support animal. Yeah. I also feel like I don't know how many,
27:47
maybe no more. But like therapy dogs too, I don't know how much
27:51
those are like regulated or are correctly trained or anything. But I have my
27:55
own bone to pick with those dogs to Yeah, I don't know how,
27:59
Like don't know it just like it just feels like people taking advantage of stuff
28:04
more than anything. Yeah, I will say I have seen it done well.
28:10
When I was working at the VA, there was a program in Omaha
28:14
that would train like Belgian melanwoah and German shepherds like good dogs to help people
28:22
abort panic attacks, to help vets who are highly anxious and I have seen
28:29
it work well and actually do really well like well trained dogs, but it
28:34
seems like ninety five percent of the time that is not the case. And
28:37
you know, well trained to me ends up. I almost equate it to
28:41
like the well trained animals are the ones that end up being like the actual
28:45
service animals like that go through actual rigorous training and not just yes, this
28:49
is my emotional support animal. I've told my students this for years now.
28:53
Of like, when you eventually go into working and being a clinician, like
28:59
this will come up eventually, push back because there's nothing protecting you if things
29:03
go sidewa. Yeah and yeah. As a provider, you are somewhat on
29:07
the hook on the line for writing these letters that people sometimes demand that you
29:11
write. What's your take on point grieve? Legally, yes, but mine's
29:22
just gonna be. People bring this up every holiday season. But just remember
29:26
pets are not just presence. Like if you get someone a pet for a
29:30
present, please expect to have them for ten to fifteen years. I think
29:34
that's important. I agree. Play us out, my friend. Thank you
29:41
all for listening. This is the We're now past one hundred. We're on
29:45
episode one, oh one, So here's day one of the next one hundred.
29:48
We appreciate you all for being here with us, for supporting us.
29:52
If you liked what you heard today, feel free to give us a review
29:55
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30:15
it the other name. That is all we have. Thank you all,
30:17
go love on your pets. We appreciate y'all and take care of y'all. Mentals