Latest / Friday I'm in Bed / It's Friday I'm Here for a Walk in the Park

Transcript

It's Friday I'm Here for a Walk in the Park · Friday I'm in Bed

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Hello, welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
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Podcasts for midlife women living their best life but in
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bed by 10 this week on Friday, I'm in bed.
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We're starting with Nikes latest billboard telling people that
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walking will be tolerated. We're asking, could this be any
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more a blessed. And how much do words and
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advertising actually matter when they land like that?
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We're also touching on another ad doing the rounds, an AI
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employee campaign that's already been called out for sexism
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because apparently even robots can't escape outdated thinking.
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Then we're talking about Madonna's appearance at
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Coachella. Some Gen.
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Z's didn't even know who she is, which is a conversation in
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itself. But more importantly, why are we
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still talking about her face instead of the fact that she's
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still on stage at 67 doing exactly what she's always done?
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Big questions, questionable ads, and the ongoing issue of aging
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in public. So grab a cuppa and let's.
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Into it. Hi, Jim.
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How are you? Hey, I'm good.
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I've just come from the hospital this morning and had my bone
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strengthening infusion. But we've got a few podcast
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housekeeping things this morning that we'll do first, shall we?
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Oh, OK, that's yeah, we organize podcasting people.
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Yeah, well, I thought we'd do this first.
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So we have a website nowfridayiminbed.com and if you
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go there, you can see all of the places that you can subscribe to
1:32
us and you can see all of the episodes and listen to all the
1:35
episodes there. But we also have or I say we
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Kate did it. We also have a weekly Zine now,
1:42
AKA a newsletter. But zine's zine's are more fun
1:44
because we remember the 90s. So there will be a sign up form
1:48
for that there as well where we will be sending out.
1:50
So you'll get notifications of new episodes and we can also
1:53
send you like, bonus content, some links to what we've been
1:56
talking about, that kind of stuff.
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Anything else I should say about that?
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No, that's it. No, that's it.
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OK, that was easy. So apart from that, apart from
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setting up our exciting museum, what have you been up to this
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week? Really, I was thinking about
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this before, before we started. Today Jim's going to ask me what
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I've done, what I know. Not a lot, I actually thought
2:17
rather than what I've done. How do I feel?
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I think I like I'm feeling my anxiety levels are rising on a
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day-to-day basis. Foolishly had children two years
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apart, which means the first GCSE for one is next week and
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the other one's final project and stuff for college, which is
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the same as A levels. It is next week.
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So it's like in this house, I'm trying to be like really calm
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and I am calm, but I'm feeling that like there's so much going
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on and like, have you revised and have you done the thing and
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how can I help you? And, and I'm kind of like it's
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knowing that it's going to be like this now till mid June.
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So it's kind of like, oh, it's quite nice to come here and chat
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with you whereas. Normally it isn't.
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Of course, normally. I see when you said your anxiety
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levels were rising, I was going to be like, mine too.
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But mine's just, like, general state of the world.
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Like, it's just like, Oh my God, the world's an awful place.
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I feel like I might just like, give my feeds, my algorithm some
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training and only click on dog videos and yeah, people doing
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nice stuff for a while and refuse to refuse to read
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anything to do with the news just so that all my algorithm
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sends me is look how lovely the world is.
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I know you have no to train the algorithm, don't you?
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So I was on TikTok the other night and a video came up on my
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few page, which was 2:00 in the morning down Bedford High Street
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on a Saturday night. And as you can imagine, it's
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just full of drunken people falling over, being awful
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police, you know, like it's just dreadful.
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Anyway, I was really watching it with intent because I was like,
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wow, Oh my God, Oh my God, this is where my son goes.
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And now the algorithm has decided it's going to show me
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everything bad that happens in Bedford.
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And every time I go on, it's everything bad about where I
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live. And not only that dangerous or
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raffle, you know, like you have to like, right.
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I need to now watch that. It was still happening last week
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when I didn't know about it, so we could just like ignore it.
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So fortunately it's not that hard to train it.
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I mean literally I was looking for a new diary the other day
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and I went on stories and said I'm looking for a new diary.
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I wonder if the algorithm could show me some new ads, some ads
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for places that sell Diaries. And honestly, I now know every
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single company that sells Diaries that ships to the UK
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anywhere. So yeah, it's not that hard.
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Just write a list. I would like to see dogs and
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cats doing cute things please. I know and nothing to do with
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GCS, ES, Oh my goodness, nothing to.
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Do with GCS, ES, or anything else hideous about the state of
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the world, we're going to keep it.
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We're going to keep our rage for light things.
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Yeah, exactly which? Is what we're going to do today.
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I mean, so I have to say this because I'm super proud of this.
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So at the weekend I went down to Kent and I did a 10K running,
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which will be relevant later on as well.
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And I got my what I call it my PCPB, my post cancer PB.
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And it was like nearly the time that I ran it in in 2019, like
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before I was diagnosed. So I've worked really hard and I
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feel like I should put that at the top of the show just so I
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can be like, everybody be proud of me.
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Absolutely, it's brilliant. Well, first of all, it's just
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brilliant. You did it full stop.
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Because like, I don't run upstairs, but the fact that, you
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know, you've got that personal best or almost if you know what
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I mean. Yeah, it's brilliant.
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I I'm two different people. PCPB counts.
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Yeah, absolutely. Well, it does, of course.
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Yeah, we're going to talk about running in second anyway.
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Hopefully you're there, Kate. When?
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Because we just got a notification.
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We just got a notification pop up to say for some reason Kate
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had stopped recording. So this is just me here now, but
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we're going to crack on with our first topic.
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So first thing that I want to talk about this week is Nike.
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So I don't know if this popped up in your feed this week.
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It's been everywhere on mine. But obviously algorithms do what
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algorithms do depending on what kind of thing you follow.
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So I mean, the Boston Marathon was at the start of this week,
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and Nike had a sign in the window of their flagship store,
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which was a few 100 feet from the finish line.
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And the sign said runners welcome walkers tolerated, which
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caused a bit bit of a bit of a backlash online.
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It was it was a tolerated. I think like, well, we're allow
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it. And I think that there's a bit
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of a kind of snobbishness in that kind of running community.
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And it's not kind of the first time that Nike have been guilty
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of this. I to do what's called Jeffing or
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the Galloway method. So basically I run walks.
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So that PB that I did at the weekend, I ran for two minutes
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walk for 30 seconds and I did that for the whole thing.
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And there is literally nothing wrong with walking when you go
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out for a run. Let's just make that clear to
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start with. So when there was a backlash,
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they then took it down to be before race day and they issued
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a statement saying it missed the mark, which is the standard
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reply. And then they put it with
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something about movement mattering.
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And so that was, I mean, progress.
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But are they just trying to get in the news?
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However, Nike have also been popping up at park runs and they
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popped up at London, obviously London marathons this weekend as
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well. And they popped up at some
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London park runs, Peckham Rye, Brockwell Park, Crystal Palace
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Park. I haven't done any of those.
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But yeah, they were popping up there with, with signs they
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didn't Bear in mind Park Run is a charity run completely by
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volunteers. Volunteers, all of the sessions.
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They didn't give any money to Park Run for this.
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They just rocked up with a cherry picker with a sign that
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said you didn't come all this way for a walk in the park.
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And then they had smaller signs that were dotted around saying
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with little arrows that said like runners only.
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This is like so anti the ethos of Park Rotten that I just
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literally don't have any words for it.
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So I did that. Because I was I was going to say
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it's anti being plus of Nike because it's just do it.
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Yeah, exactly. But yeah, you'd think, wouldn't
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you? So Park Run is absolutely
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fantastic. So it's a timed 5K every week,
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parks around the UK. I'm heading up for my 50th which
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I'm going to do with some friends at the start of May and
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I absolutely love it. I did.
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I walked the park run on Saturday near my parents because
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I was doing the 10K. So I took my dad with me who's
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70 and we walked, we walked to Park Run and he absolutely love
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it. There's no cut offs.
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They have a tail Walker so no one comes last.
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So you will, you will. There is no way unless you were
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volunteering as a tail Walker at park run that you can come last.
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There's no minimum pays, no competition.
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And they are specifically promoting the phrase park walk.
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So they have people who go out there with park walk jackets on.
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They have specific days where they go.
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This is park walk day and they encourage people to go and walk
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park run here now. Well, basically for night to
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rock up with a you didn't come all this way for a walk in the
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park to essentially a charity event that is trying to
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encourage people to get moving and walking was like completely
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tone deaf. People go to park park run, park
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walk because their GPS tell them to move, because they're
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recovering from illness, because they want to go somewhere on a
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Saturday morning and just like say hi to people where no one's
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going to make them feel rubbish for going at the back and that
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kind of advertising at the event.
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I, I mean, honestly, I'm, I'm, I'm outraged.
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Can you tell this is my outraged faith?
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Because park park run means quite a lot to me because I
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never started going to park run till after my cancer diagnosis.
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I was, I've been featured. They do a, there's a monthly,
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there's a charity called 5K your way who do a monthly park run
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for cancer patients. They work with Macmillan.
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There's all kinds of things that they do with that.
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So it actually means quite a lot to me as well.
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I was featured on their on their Instagram page as a runner
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because of my experience getting back into it after my stem cell
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transplant diagnosis. So for someone like Nike to rock
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up with, that just really does make me angry.
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So the head of communications said it was just for a bit of
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brand awareness. Yeah, yes, we know where you
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exist now, but we'd rather not. And the CEO?
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That existed. Sorry music.
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Nike are the one of the biggest brands in the world.
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Name a sports brand. Nike.
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Never heard of them. They Nike.
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Are they Nike on Nike? I'm never sure about that.
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Like you're supposed to say. There was a bit where everyone
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started saying Nike and I was, I always called them Nike when I
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was a kid. And then for a bit everyone
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decided they were Nike and now they're Nike again.
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But there you go. But there there is a kind of
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internal issue with this sometimes in running culture.
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So it's not just a clumsy ad. And you'd think that Nike could
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afford people who don't make clumsy ads like that.
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So part of me suspects that they did this kind of thing so that
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people like us would talk, well, maybe bigger people than us,
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we'd talk about them on podcasts.
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But there is a real kind of attitude you get sometimes real
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runners don't walk. They hit a certain pace.
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You have to be able to do it under this pace.
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I, I see a lot of people who like, post their marathon signs
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and people will say things like, all right, so you walked a
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marathon and you go, no. And even if I did walk some of
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it, like 26 miles is a long way. I mean, I, I even saw people
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picking on a woman doing it in a wheelchair because apparently
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it's easier in a wheelchair. Sophy Butler, who's a disabled
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influencer, is doing the London Marathon.
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And yeah, then they'll even pop up and say that it's cheating.
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Like it isn't harder to wheel yourself with your tiny little
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arm muscles than it is to run. So those people are out there,
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those people who think of themselves as real runners
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because they can do a 5K in under 30 minutes and they they
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will shame people and keep people out of that kind of world
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who could. Really.
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To benefit from the movement. So sewage.
12:02
Yeah. So there's a, there's a, there's
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kind of a lot to unpack. There's obviously massive
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amounts of ableism in it. Like I talked about Sophie
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Butler. She's certainly not the only
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disabled athlete to have faced this kind of this kind of
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pushback. Like, they don't belong there.
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You get a lot of when people get charity places in marathons like
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Boston particularly is, I don't know if you know this.
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Boston is very hard to get into. You have to run a particular
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qualifying time or you have to get a charity spot.
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So there are people who don't run the qualifying time who will
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then get a charity spot. So then that creates this kind
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of like, oh, like you're taking a space away from someone who
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deserves it because they can run fast.
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Kind of kind of culture people who've been trying to get into
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Boston for years. There's, there's always a little
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bit of that. I don't want to like go on for
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ages because I could just like I could just do a monologue on
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this for ages because there's other, there's lots coming up.
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So that there's ableism, there's the attitude of runners in that
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and just the attitude of Nike really to what are, who are
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their customers? I mean whether they're walking
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or running, these are going to be their customers.
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So does it surprise you because I know that you're quite into
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the brand and the marketing and that kind of stuff.
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So do you think that this was a misjudgement on Nikes position
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or do you think this is exactly what they were trying to do?
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It's it's. That's a tricky 1 to answer
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because a different brand, I would say it's a publicity
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stunt, obviously. I think, I think you said they
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put it at the end of the marathon.
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My first thought was, you know, the amount of people that do
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walk at the end of the marathon, Yeah, they might run right the
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last little Sprint bit, but you know, because they're shattered,
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they've hurt themselves. You know, there's all that stuff
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going on and I feel like a a different brand may go, this is
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a great, you know, no publicity is bad publicity, you know, just
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a bit more controversial. But it's so surprising from Nike
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because when you think of their brand values, it is all you
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know. This girl can, I think was one
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of them, you know, and you know. And that was.
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Nike, they're really inclusive. With it, yeah.
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Yeah, really inclusive, really inclusive towards Paralympians
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and, and just athletes or not even athletes, you know, people,
14:14
normal people doing exercise that have, have disabilities.
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They're really proactively, they have larger mannequins, for
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example, in stores, you know, like they, they're very
14:26
inclusive. Yet they have created a campaign
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or what whether they say it's a campaign, some marketing, some
14:33
advertising that is the opposite.
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So it makes you think, well, it makes you question why, as you
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you just said, why have they got a new team?
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Do they like, do they think it's funny?
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I mean, like, so they've said we missed the mark, but that's just
14:50
such a generic apology. Corporate.
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Yeah, like whatever. It feels odd.
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Really, really odd. And as I said, if it was, I'm
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trying to think of a brand that might do it, but somebody that
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was just a bit more controversial or trying to be
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really like lad culture. We were talked about that last
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week or you know, like really cool.
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This is a really inclusive known brand that doesn't need a lot
15:19
of. Yeah, they, they did have to
15:23
apologize for a billboard at the London Marathon last year.
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OK, So what feedback last year's last year's read Never again
15:30
until next year. And I think I remember seeing
15:33
that and it didn't occur to me at the time, but apparently
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there's language that's associated with the Holocaust,
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the never again part of it. So they ended up having to
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apologize for that. I don't it feels to me like that
15:45
would not have been deliberate because that didn't that
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language didn't occur to me at the time.
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But they did have to apologize one last last year.
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So I wonder if they got loads of attention for it and it gave
15:55
them ideas to be because I think, I mean obviously
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Holocaust. Aside, I'm sure there are many,
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many, many, many people that run a marathon and go over again.
16:05
Yeah. Until next year.
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Actually. I think that's quite clever.
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Apart from, obviously, yeah. Things like that thing.
16:11
Yeah. Well, because I did exactly the
16:12
same thing. I put myself in the London
16:14
Marathon ballot every year. And then after I actually did it
16:16
last year, I was like, maybe not.
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And I still put my name in the ballot and I'll still be putting
16:20
my name in the ballot this Friday as well.
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So yeah, yeah, that's how races work.
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You get, you get maybe like an hour per mile.
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So 24 hours, 26 hours later for the marathon, you'll be like,
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oh, when can I do another one? But or are they just rage
16:33
baiting? You know, it's just we've we've
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talked about that. Well, haven't we?
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Are they just like we? We want to now come into the the
16:39
world of rage baiting, but it seems like if you're going to
16:44
range bait, there's no point apologizing 24 hours later.
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Yeah, you know what I mean. And changing it.
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Or well, maybe you do because then maybe you get a bit more
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attention for it. Or sorry, I've got to.
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Forget it, does it? Seems do you want to know what
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their competitors did though, because I love these.
17:00
So they were up. So ASICS had billboard up by
17:03
Monday that said runners, walkers all welcome and ultra
17:06
posted. Go where you're celebrated and
17:07
not where you're tolerated. So the others were leaking in
17:11
with that, I have to say actually, so we if we're talking
17:14
about the able, the kind of ableism of it as well that kind
17:17
of like, oh, anyone can run. No, not any.
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Not. Any they can't.
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And some people can run a bit and walk a bit and you know,
17:24
just move, just move your body. This is something I'm
17:25
enthusiastic about. But I, well, I bought new shoes
17:30
last weekend or the weekend before.
17:32
And if it was, I was in in Wembley, which we talked about
17:35
last week's podcast, I was in Wembley and they've got the
17:37
London outlet store and I went into Adidas and I bought myself
17:39
some nice green snakeskin Sambas, which I was very pleased
17:42
with. However, notice in their sports
17:44
shoes section they've got a sign up that says you can buy single
17:47
shoes in there, so and that. There was a campaign to get that
17:52
to happen and add the person that drove it.
17:56
I think took the campaign to Adidas and other brands, but
18:00
Adidas were the ones were like, yeah, we will do it and I.
18:04
Think that's fantastic? That's proper inclusivity that
18:07
you can buy 1 shoe for 50% of the cost of buying 2 shoes.
18:10
You know, blade blade runners and blade runners, and they run
18:14
on running blades, but they called blade runners because I
18:18
don't know, I need to check that anyway.
18:20
Yeah. So, yeah, I thought that that
18:21
was absolutely fantastic, I think.
18:24
I agree with you around the snobbery around running and it's
18:28
obviously, as you know, I don't run and I'm not really into
18:31
running at all. And I think part of it is the,
18:35
the way people behave about running.
18:37
I think I've joked before about how people, you know, how can
18:40
you tell it? Some of the runner, they'll tell
18:41
you type of thing. But and that's fine.
18:44
You could say the same, you know, for vegans or whatever,
18:47
you know, that's that that joke. But it's the I'm not good
18:51
enough. So I did race a couch to 5K back
18:54
in about 20/20/2019. And I joined like the Facebook
18:58
group as people do, I got to running for half an hour, but I
19:03
never did 5K because obviously the program takes you to half an
19:06
hour running, but the the amount of people sort of well you
19:10
you've failed. And it's like, mate, I am
19:12
running for half an hour. That is amazing, particularly as
19:17
I have never ever run in my life.
19:19
And actually there are many people for many different
19:22
reasons that have never run in their life.
19:23
And some of it is to do with their body and it's to do with
19:26
their environment and it's to do to do with confidence, it's to
19:28
safety, all these different things.
19:31
So that kind of feeling of your, you've failed, it's like like
19:34
you've failed. If you walk in a marathon.
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I'm not saying that obviously, you know, but it's there.
19:40
Yeah, I will cut that out and put that out there so that
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everyone can shower you. No one doing a marathon has
19:46
failed. Do you know what I mean?
19:48
I mean, I, I like, I could never.
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I mean, I would never, I would never, and I could never do
19:54
America. Say, say we would never, because
19:56
I reckon you could, but I don't. You don't have to.
19:59
It's OK, I'm not. Going to make you I don't
20:02
actually think I could, but it's not like it's the implication of
20:06
failure is really is shocking so and there was another which I
20:11
want I wanted to bring up, which is another billboard that has
20:15
created a for all and maybe we just need to talk about
20:18
companies creating a for all for all.
20:21
Is that how you say it? There was an AI actually it's
20:25
novel labs tech firm have a new like AI employee where you can
20:30
let businesses can like pay. I suppose there's a actually
20:33
there's a free version and then a paid version of an AI employee
20:37
and their billboard which went went up.
20:39
I think it was Bristol. I should have written all this
20:42
down began with B might have been Birmingham.
20:44
The advert for it says she outworks everyone and she'll
20:49
never ask for a pay rise and their receipt a huge backlash
20:54
because everyone's like, so she you've gendered the AI employee
21:00
and saying she'll outwork everyone when we know that women
21:04
do more unpaid labor than men and particularly as parents,
21:10
she'll never ask for a pay rise and women are really bad at
21:13
asking for pay arises. Analysts underpaid in compared
21:16
to men. Exactly.
21:19
And then they went on, I don't know if this is on the website
21:22
or like this is like further on down and it says something along
21:26
the lines of, you know, working 9:00 to 5:00 or she'll work 24/7
21:30
and she starts working for free because there's a free AI
21:34
employee package. So again, have they purposely
21:40
decided that this employee was going to be a woman, a female?
21:44
And obviously it's not, it's AI, but you know, in the marketing
21:47
they've gone but this. Is what like yeah, why gender?
21:50
What is essentially a piece of software like?
21:52
Exactly, Yeah, someone's made the decision to do that.
21:56
And then, and I always think this with things like this.
21:59
So because I used to, I mean I am a marketer, I used to work in
22:02
the marketing department of Tesco.
22:04
So, you know, anything we did so advertising, like actual adverts
22:09
on the television advertisers and billboards in newspapers,
22:12
everything you'd, you'd quite often outsource big campaigns to
22:16
an ad agency. So but they would come in and
22:19
they'd pitch their proposals and you'd go through it, but there
22:22
would always be people in the room, generally me going, oh,
22:26
have you thought about this? And what about that?
22:28
And sometimes people looked at me like I was like negative.
22:32
But I am one of these people that looks at every angle like,
22:35
how is that going to be perceived by everyone?
22:39
So when I see things like this, I'm like, was no one in the
22:42
room? Like did no one go?
22:44
Maybe there were no women in the room.
22:48
Maybe there was no women in the room.
22:49
Maybe there were no women in the room.
22:50
Tech is generally, you know, quite a male dominated industry,
22:55
but maybe there weren't any. Women in the room still expect
22:58
the men I worked with in the marketing and advertising
23:01
department were, you know, they'd spend their whole life
23:04
doing branding and and marketing and and and and would be.
23:08
And they were also were like, have you thought about that?
23:10
No, I'm not sure about that wording.
23:12
Yeah. Like everything was dissected to
23:14
such a minute level, you know, everything down to the usage of
23:18
commerce. You know like but unlike didn't
23:21
at Nike. Surely there was someone in the
23:23
room that understood their brand values.
23:26
Well, yeah. So this is what I wonder if with
23:28
the Nike thing, I do wonder if maybe there is a like a bit of a
23:31
pivot on the brand values. Maybe they're trying to like
23:34
attract those kind of like go hard or go home, kind of like,
23:39
yeah, Tim Bros, I wonder. Yeah, I wonder if that's that's
23:44
like part of their part of their goal.
23:46
But yeah, I did want to say earlier, actually soon as we
23:49
brought my knife back up again at 30 minutes is a fast 5 Ki do
23:54
not run a 30 minute 5K. And I barely did before like 37
23:58
minutes or something around that is the average for a woman.
24:02
And that's women who run and therefore have a time for their
24:05
5K. So like, yeah, I mean, took me
24:08
and my dad an hour to do it at the weekend.
24:11
I. Think knowing that, which
24:14
obviously I understood after I beat myself up for not running
24:17
5K in half an hour. But let's go back to the
24:19
branding. Couch to 5K sounds very snappy
24:22
but it really it should be couch to half an hour.
24:26
Because that that has been brought up with people before
24:28
because that I have heard other people saying that because that
24:31
is a thing that a lot of people think about and people kind of
24:34
feel like they've failed because they haven't run 5K when they've
24:36
run for 30 minutes at the end of it.
24:39
That's, you know, that's not a pace.
24:41
And this is this for a lot of people is their first experience
24:44
with even considering that running has a pace that you can
24:47
run fast or you can run slow. I mean, I know before I started
24:50
running, I was like, they were like, hang on how fast you run
24:52
you? I don't know this is running
24:54
you. Know and my running isn't really
24:57
running so when I did it, which I I haven't done it since it was
25:02
a light jog, it wasn't that's. What you should do most of your
25:05
own, you should be a light jog. You shouldn't be sprinting
25:08
because it's exhausting. And that's that's kind of how
25:11
you fit. Yeah.
25:12
So yeah, that's just. And I'm not in a race, funnily
25:15
enough. Even when you are in a race,
25:18
you're not going to win. So like, but you know, Nike are
25:21
responsible for the the Super shoes, the ones that they had to
25:24
decide whether it was cheating and try and like change the
25:27
rules because they had these carbon fiber plates that were
25:29
just making people super speedy. So maybe they they're having a
25:32
bit of a pivot from just do it to just do it do it how we say
25:36
you should. It's one.
25:38
Oh yeah. I wonder because when I look at
25:39
Adidas for. Example, when I am an Adidas,
25:41
Adidas, they really are working hard on like their fashion range
25:47
as well and their collaborations with well, then they just done
25:50
Molly may or just with like people in the public eye.
25:54
You know, they're they're going down that route more.
25:58
But then I then think when I think of Nike, I think they're
26:01
the true sport brand. I may be well wrong.
26:04
I'm just literally saying my perception of the brand is like
26:07
added as the cool one, the fashion one, and Nike is the
26:12
actual sport. Very sporty 1 So that's why I'm
26:15
wondering if that was where they think they're going with it is
26:17
like. But there's not that many
26:21
athletes as that because most of us are just doing some exercise,
26:26
maybe walking, you know what I mean?
26:28
We're not all. But then I suppose it was the
26:30
Boston, as you just said it, the Boston Marathon is one of the
26:33
hardest to get into. But from a charity perspective,
26:36
because that was one of the things I was thinking when you
26:37
were talking, don't most people, unless you're an athlete, you
26:41
enter to raise money for charity.
26:43
So it's a bit of a kick for the people that are raising money
26:46
and lots of money for charity. And it's almost like, you know
26:50
unless you're running, it's not genuine enough.
26:53
Or or legitimate enough like so raising money for charity isn't
26:57
a legitimate reason to take part in a marathon.
27:00
You have to. You have to only be doing it to
27:02
prove to yourself how fast you can run a marathon.
27:04
So what did Park Run say then? You might have said that.
27:07
Well, sorry. This is what I mean.
27:09
Park runs have always said that everybody is welcome at park
27:13
runs. There is a thing around this
27:16
which I did want to talk about, about the idea of brands at
27:19
these kind of brands with a lot of money, let's face it, and I
27:22
can't short a few pennies at these kind of grass root events
27:27
advertising their brands without giving anything back to the
27:30
community. So it has been confirmed that
27:32
there was no payment to Park Run by Nike Ford.
27:36
They just rocked up at these community events with posters
27:40
advertising their stuff and kind of advertising very, very
27:45
contrary to the attitude of Park Run as well.
27:49
Is that, how do you, how do you feel about that, that kind of
27:51
idea of big brands using community events?
27:56
Because I mean, it's, it's, it's not the first time something
27:58
like that has happened and love to piggyback off of often off of
28:02
a grassroots event. What drives me mad, full stop,
28:05
is big brands. It's no different from the
28:07
brands. Some of the brands that approach
28:09
me, obviously not Nike or anything to do with running.
28:12
You know, the biggest beauty brands in the world and they and
28:15
they want free advertising. Nike.
28:17
We don't have. Park run to advertise to their
28:21
people. They should have spoken to them.
28:24
Do you know what I mean? It's just like it's not like
28:26
they're a little startup company.
28:28
I think that's the thing actually, I think when I was
28:30
talking earlier about like controversial marketing, startup
28:34
companies quite often do things like that.
28:36
It's almost like let's get let's create a viral moment and
28:39
hopefully the brand will cattle from there.
28:43
But this is Nike. It's just, I think they just
28:46
want controversy. And as you said, maybe there's
28:49
some pivoting in mind or a new team that might they might have
28:54
a new advisor, like they might be working with a new ad agency.
28:58
I think doing it at Park Run without talking to Park Run
29:01
first is, well, we're all talking about.
29:04
It, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean we are talking about it.
29:06
But yeah, I just, I do have a huge issue with that because it
29:08
is something that brands do like when they approach you and claim
29:10
that they have no budget and you go really OK.
29:14
But you can afford Serena Williams, OK?
29:16
Exactly. Well, that's why they've got no
29:18
budget. But then if you know, Serena
29:20
Williams, kind of like when it's a small, what they want is that
29:25
kind of authenticity that comes with the grassroots and the
29:28
community events. So they they want to piggyback
29:30
on that, that authenticity. And it's the same as when they
29:33
approach kind of smaller influencers or whatever who they
29:35
want to they want to use but say, Oh no, we don't have any
29:38
budget. We just want to, you know, give
29:40
you something free, you know, because you can pay your taxes
29:42
with free shoes or whatever. That's what they're after.
29:45
They're after the authenticity that comes with an event or a
29:48
person like that without they, they look on it as cheap
29:51
marketing so they can keep the money for themselves.
29:54
And I I find that. What you don't do, what you
29:57
don't do, though, is hurt and upset everybody there.
30:02
Yeah, that does seem like an odd choice.
30:05
I can. I can understand why I don't.
30:07
I don't like, I can understand the big brand going.
30:09
This will be fun. Yeah.
30:10
This will be some free marketing.
30:13
You know, as you said, keep all the money for us or keep all the
30:15
money to pay for the big guys. But let's not upset everybody.
30:20
And it is, yeah, just. And as you said it, it kind of
30:26
then leans back into, I said Jim Bros, you know, that whole
30:30
judgement we talked about, I talked about that last week
30:33
around like what I'd love to bring back from the 90s, like a
30:36
lack of judgement. If you ran every, it was cool.
30:38
If you didn't run, yeah, nobody cared.
30:40
Whereas now it's like, yeah, but do you run this fast and fast,
30:44
this amount of this amount of protein and this amount of green
30:47
juice and this amount like just stop, make it stop.
30:51
And then Nike have now fuelled into that, which is it's the
30:54
thing that makes me not want to turn up and open my phone in the
30:57
morning. Which is just.
30:58
Yeah. So there does tend to be a kind
31:01
of elite athletes, the ones that are winning, the ones at the
31:03
front, they're the ones that tend.
31:05
They'll be pleased that anybody is running.
31:08
You know, if you ask Kefrogi or, you know, Paula Radcliffe or
31:12
someone, they'll be like, yes, just get out and run.
31:15
Brilliant. I love it when people are
31:16
getting more active and stuff. It's the, it's the guys that
31:20
live in the speedy but not elite 12, the like under 20 minute 5K
31:25
people, they start to be the ones that sometimes not all of
31:29
them in trouble. They tend to be the ones that
31:32
can be a little bit more kind of gatekeeping about who deserves
31:36
to be on their turf. Like, like they have to put some
31:39
kind of cut off on it so that they can count themselves as
31:42
nearly up there with the elites, whereas you guys at the back are
31:45
like nowhere close. There's literally people running
31:48
the marathon or walk, skipping the marathon, or skipping the
31:50
marathon in a chicken costume. Yeah, and you know how horrible
31:53
it is when they beat you? But you know what I mean?
31:56
Like literally ow. Yeah, and that is going to be
32:01
that we'll should we make that? I'm going to make that my final
32:03
note on this, my final note on this.
32:06
I just chill out and be come to park run and walk it because
32:10
it's fun and the park run people, they're all pretty
32:12
amazing. So just ignore.
32:14
Nike just do it. I was waiting to get that in.
32:21
I want to talk about Coachella for the second week in a row.
32:26
And last weekend was the second weekend of Coachella at this
32:30
festival has two weekends. And the highlight, if you like
32:34
that, the kind of key cultural, pop, cultural moment with
32:38
Sabrina Carpenter who headlined, she brought out Madonna aged 67,
32:44
who turned up and sang Vogue and like a prayer with Sabrina
32:48
wearing kind of little corset number with long boots.
32:52
Interestingly, some of the costume that she wore 20 years
32:56
ago when she headlined Coachella.
32:58
So she came out, she was great. It was great.
33:00
And what's been really interesting is the response
33:04
because it's been very, very mixed.
33:06
And I ended up creating a video about her and it's I think it's
33:11
about 600,000 views, but lots of people arguing with me, lots and
33:15
lots of emotion around Madonna. And this is the kind of which is
33:19
I'd quite like to talk about anyone watching this on YouTube.
33:23
My dog is sitting here being very odd.
33:26
So if I keep looking down, that's why she might make an
33:29
appearance soon. She's being very her behavior is
33:31
being odd. Anyway, so there's one of the
33:34
responses were from a younger people saying who the hell is
33:38
Madonna? But we'll discuss that in a
33:40
minute because that's like, who the hell is Madonna?
33:42
What are you talking about? Where have you been your entire
33:46
17 years of your life? But there's been a lot of talk
33:50
around. Should she have been there?
33:52
Is she too old to be on the stage and people celebrating
33:57
that she's on the stage being told that actually she is an
34:02
ageist person herself because of the work she's had on her face.
34:07
So what I want to talk, it's not just talking about Coachella or
34:10
particularly just talking about Madonna, but the responses I've
34:13
seen have been, you know, there's been the usual get off
34:17
stage grandma, which is a usual response.
34:20
Grandma is a obviously an ageist this to an older woman,
34:26
regardless of whether she's a grandma or not.
34:28
I don't even know if if Madonna is a grandma.
34:30
I don't know whether her children.
34:32
So, children, no I'm not. Sure, but of course you can be a
34:36
grandma at 40 and you could be not a grandma at 80.
34:39
So it's kind of it's a ridiculous ageist comet.
34:43
So we'll forget about that for a minute because you know, people
34:46
that say that can can almost just jog on is what I'm
34:48
thinking. Jog on, jog on.
34:51
Not walk dog. But what I did.
34:53
So I, and it's not just me, lots of people created content about
34:58
Madonna. She's 67, she's on stage at
35:01
Coachella, she's owning the stage.
35:03
She's doing what Madonna does. She's cool, she's sassy, she's
35:08
independent, she's sexy, she's strong, she's fit, she's
35:13
healthy. You know, all those things that
35:15
we think of with Madonna and lots of people have said, isn't
35:19
that amazing? And not, isn't that amazing?
35:21
Like, wow, oh, my God. But just like, yeah, go, go,
35:24
woman, you know, love it. But then there's a whole load of
35:27
other people arguing with the likes of me or the likes of the
35:31
press or whoever, saying she mustn't be seen as a beacon for
35:37
positive aging because of the work she's had on her face.
35:41
And that drives me mad because she and we are more than just
35:47
our face. I see when I celebrate an older
35:50
woman doing and doing amazing things, it's not because they
35:54
look good, It's because they are doing amazing things.
35:58
But but it's a tricky one because you can also argue,
36:03
well, she isn't really embracing her age because she's still
36:06
trying to look younger. So there's this whole like,
36:09
never ending cycle of conversation because she kind of
36:14
can't win. And I do want to say before I
36:17
open this out that whenever I share content about Dolly
36:21
Parton, Cher, Jane Fonda, to name three, I never get the
36:26
backlash like I do with Madonna. So there's something about, but
36:30
Madonna, I feel that divides people and divides men and
36:36
women, young and old. And I'd love to just like dive
36:41
into that as well as the whole, you know, can you represent an
36:46
aging powerful woman yet still have surgery?
36:49
Because that's obviously the big discussion that's going outgoing
36:53
out there. And then finally, we'll just
36:54
quickly chat about who the hell is Madonna?
36:57
I mean, you know, I blame parents because everybody, my
37:02
children know who Madonna is. And I'm not even that big a
37:05
music fan of Madonna. So, yes.
37:07
So lots to unpack there. What do you want me to do first?
37:11
Oh. Oh.
37:13
Oh, I think let's just talk about Madonna and then we can
37:17
obviously talk about ageism or wanting to age.
37:21
So there's definitely something. I was chatting with my mom.
37:24
My mom rang me after the she saw the video.
37:28
She's a big fan of Madonna. And she wrote a really nice
37:31
positive comment about, oh, my God, I love, you know, this one
37:33
of my favorite Madonna songs. You know, it's just like a
37:35
really positive comment about Madonna.
37:37
And people piled in on her and she was like, whoa, your
37:40
followers really don't like Madonna, do they?
37:43
And I was like, yeah, it's not just my followers, you know, So
37:46
what I mean, I think I know. But what do you think?
37:49
What is it? About Madonna, that divides
37:52
people. OK, so I love Madonna.
37:54
I mean, not like I'm like a die hard fan, but I I love her and I
37:59
love her for her. She's.
38:02
Just an icon, isn't she? But I love her for the fact that
38:06
she's kind of been in the forefront of a lot of stuff for
38:08
her entire career. You know, she came from like,
38:11
kind of the blood, like punk roots in New York.
38:15
She's driven and ambitious all the things that women are not
38:20
supposed to be and then get hated for.
38:22
And I think that that's why she divides a lot of people because
38:26
she's also been in, she changes a lot.
38:29
She's such a chameleon. Whereas I think maybe somebody
38:31
like, I mean, Cher's done a fair bit of that, but someone like
38:35
Dolly Parton has always been Dolly Parton.
38:37
She, you know, she, she does what Dolly Parton does, whereas
38:40
Madonna's always been a kind of chameleon.
38:42
And I, I think sometimes people may interpret that as, I don't
38:46
know, maybe a lack of authenticity, but I don't think
38:48
that's what it is with her. I think it is that she is
38:51
genuinely engaged in the industry that she's in and wants
38:56
to stay at the forefront of it. So she keeps up to date and she
38:59
thinks, oh, I want to try that or she, and she's actually an
39:02
artist in that sense where she wants to keep evolving like
39:05
that. So I I think that part of it's
39:08
that and she's always been very kind of strongly in charge of
39:11
her image as well. So I think that that's what
39:15
people find divisive about her. Would you agree with that?
39:18
Absolutely. I think it's also that she owns
39:21
her own sexuality. So obviously she had the sex
39:24
book out in the late here's I think, I think it was in the
39:26
80s. Now I'm pretty Are you sure it
39:28
was the 9th? I mean, 9th, but yeah.
39:30
But she really has always, I mean from like a virgin to
39:33
wearing the John Corgartier corset tops and writhing on a
39:37
bed and the sex book and express yourself and all.
39:41
She really owns her sexuality. And I, and I know a lot of
39:44
conservative people will, will have not have liked that.
39:50
I think that she had headlines written about her in, you know,
39:54
when she was 40. I think I have got a piece.
39:57
Younger than that she was like in her 30s when they started
39:59
calling her grandma. I don't remember when she was
40:01
smashed it. Absolutely.
40:03
So she's had like a backlash, but she's she's a bit of a
40:06
chameleon, as you said, reinventing a bit like Lady
40:09
Gaga, who I think it's kind of similar, similar vein of kind of
40:13
owning her brand, owning her look, owning, you know, But
40:18
yeah, she's definitely divides people and, and there's that
40:22
there was a lot of comments around she needed to put some
40:26
clothes on. That was something I saw a lot.
40:29
But she was wearing a stage costume.
40:31
She's not like walking. Around, she wasn't wearing what
40:33
she was wearing wasn't that much different to what Sabrina
40:35
Carpenter had on. No, no, absolutely no different,
40:37
you know. But I remember when she came
40:39
back, she can still walk in those heels, to be honest.
40:41
Remember when she came back for hang up and she was in the
40:45
gymnasium and she had leotard on and she was doing like, she'd
40:49
like her dance routines are unbelief, you know?
40:51
And that was like, oh, oh, but I think she does.
40:54
She does like lean into the shock factor a bit as well, a
40:57
bit like Gaga as well. You know that.
41:00
But then that's she's an artist. Yes, that is what I think people
41:04
find divisive about her. You can see, you can see well,
41:08
regardless how much work she's had on done and stuff like that,
41:11
you can't. I felt like I've only watched
41:13
short clips, but you can see when she's on stage, you could
41:16
obviously see that she is aging and but she's still doing what
41:20
she does. I think that kind of knocking
41:24
her for it just seems weird to me because that's that that is
41:28
her job. But again, I do, I do think
41:30
there is a massive bit of kind of like trying to bring down
41:33
bring down strong, strong women in it.
41:37
So with regards to like the work she's had done on her face,
41:40
because she like I said before, she has always been like, you
41:43
know, very strongly in charge of her image.
41:45
And I obviously having the work done and stuff is part of that.
41:49
That's part of how she thinks she wants to be seen.
41:52
So I mean, I, I don't, I don't know whether it's that she's
41:54
trying to look younger or if that she just kind of wants to
41:58
look like she views herself, if you see what I mean?
42:01
Because I think again, a lot of people who talk about aging and
42:06
body image as well and anything about how women look.
42:09
And it's largely very specifically about how women
42:12
look. Do miss a big chunk about the
42:16
idea of our self-image and how it relates to what we look like.
42:20
Because they only ever look at it in the terms of like kind of
42:23
how the outside world perceives us.
42:25
So it's like, well, you're doing that because you want to look
42:28
young. So you want other people to
42:29
think you look young. But to me, and this is something
42:33
that I've struggled with a lot over the last few years, I've
42:35
spoken before about kind of when I put on so much weight, lost my
42:38
hair with cancer and everything like that.
42:40
A large part of yourself image is how you see yourself, not how
42:44
other people see you. When you look in the mirror, you
42:47
need to recognize yourself. Does that make sense?
42:50
Yeah. And.
42:51
Yeah. And people quite.
42:53
Oh, you want to look young because you want other people to
42:55
make you look young. But maybe he just maybe she
42:57
happens to have enough money to look in the mirror and go,
43:00
that's not what I want to look like.
43:01
I don't recognize that person. And she has enough money to pay
43:04
someone to to make her face match what she wants to look
43:07
like. So in that case, like so so be
43:10
it. So does it have to be about why
43:13
can't we can? There's like there's only 1
43:15
acceptable way. If we get an age, there's only 1
43:17
acceptable way to do it. Yeah, and obviously I'm in the
43:21
space like positive, well sort of anti ageism space.
43:25
Obviously my account that you know that is what I do and I
43:28
spend my time bigging up older women who are doing great
43:32
things, but every time, not maybe not every time, but often
43:37
when I share a woman every time for Madonna, but it but
43:41
sometimes for other women who aren't aging as totally
43:46
naturally. By that I mean physically.
43:49
So their face or that hair, there's a backlash because there
43:54
I feel like we've gone to a we've gone to a place now where
43:58
the only way you can positively age is to not do anything to
44:01
change your appearance. And yet there are people who do
44:05
have tweakments. There are people that do dye
44:07
their hair. There are people that do have
44:09
facelifts. Obviously these are celebrities
44:11
or, or rich people generally. You know, there are the counter
44:16
argument from the kind of positive aging group is that
44:19
they are, it's internalized misogyny.
44:22
You know, they, they want to look young because that's what
44:25
the patriarchy says we have to. So they're not that, you know,
44:28
you need to realize if you're doing it, you're doing it
44:30
because of men, even though you might not be doing it for men,
44:33
you're doing it because of men. But then I then think, well, I
44:37
believe in choice. And therefore my account, my
44:40
Instagram account can reflect that number one.
44:42
But #2 I think you know, you can have a tweakment, whether that's
44:47
Botox or some filler or use a serum or dye your hair or
44:51
whatever if you want to. Does that mean you are aging?
44:55
Doesn't really. Trade Womankind.
44:58
Well, where it's got to, and because obviously I see it, the
45:02
argument, I definitely see it now because I'm in that space.
45:04
We've gone against so far. It's back to the judgement and
45:07
the rules again. And I think it must be really
45:10
hard to be in the public eye, to age in the public eye in a
45:14
society that judges you for aging.
45:16
So to then not do anything about it is not so easy.
45:23
Yeah, it it's like it's easy for me to say, well, I'm not going
45:28
to do anything, but nobody cares what I look like.
45:32
But people do care what Madonna or whoever looks like
45:36
recognizable. You've been talking a lot about
45:38
that reason about yes, because again, you know, I did a post
45:41
about Angelina Jolie and Anne Hathaway being unrecognizable.
45:46
And I was like, like, I'm not being funny.
45:47
I recognize them straight away. And then people were like, it's
45:50
because they've had so much plastic surgery.
45:51
And I was like, but they haven't had, they haven't even had that
45:54
much plastic surgery. I'm sorry.
45:56
They look, well, maybe they haven't and they just look, but
45:59
but again, they can't win if they have it and they can't win
46:02
if they don't have it. You know it's such.
46:05
I think it's it's we do have to remember that not everybody owes
46:09
you. Like, what's the what how am I
46:11
trying to say this? OK, so not we all live in this.
46:15
It might be part of the patriarchy, but that's like
46:16
literally what we, we, we did. Yeah, yeah.
46:20
This is we all have some of that internalized misogyny.
46:23
We all, we all have some of that somewhere, whether we recognize
46:26
it or not. It's it will be in there because
46:29
that is the world that we grew up in.
46:31
We can try and work on it and recognize it, but we can't kind
46:34
of we're not, we're not all perfect and expecting every
46:38
single female celebrity to live up to your ideals of aging when
46:41
they also live in that world and have to deal with it on a
46:43
professional basis and their income relies on it, remember?
46:47
So, you know, they're, they're still trying to get work in
46:49
amongst all this. So that, I mean, I'm pretty sure
46:51
Madonna would survive if she stopped working.
46:53
But you know, their income does rely on it.
46:55
And if they want to keep working, there's always going to
46:57
be a little bit of that there. To expect all of them to live up
47:00
to your ideals of what you think aging should look like is just
47:05
is, is not fair, frankly, and possibly I think the best.
47:11
You know what, I think this all the time about body image and
47:13
stuff as well, because I actually don't talk about it
47:15
that often. And sometimes I think one of the
47:17
best ways you can deal with it is just to exist and not have to
47:21
bring attention to it all the time.
47:22
I think every time, every time we say women are trying to look
47:26
younger because they've had surgery, we're just, we're just
47:28
reinforcing that in a way because we're drawing more and
47:32
more and more attention to it. And people then like more be
47:35
like, oh, they need to be more subtle about it, like they can
47:37
or they they won't acknowledge it because they know they're
47:39
going to get pushed back. So they're trying to like hide
47:41
it. And I think that the, the best
47:43
way that we could deal with that is just to literally say, well,
47:46
that's a woman and that's how she looks like.
47:48
That's how that's how she's chosen to look.
47:50
I mean, is, is everybody has different resources.
47:54
I don't wear a heavy foundation that settles into the creases
47:56
around my eyes that weren't there when I was 20, you know,
47:59
because I don't, you know, don't think it's something I
48:01
particularly want to draw attention to.
48:03
It's not I'm trying to hide them.
48:04
I just feel like just having foundations sat in them would
48:07
probably not be a look that the look that I was going for.
48:10
So is it then if you have considerably more resources than
48:13
me to do something other than just buy a a different
48:16
foundation, is it is it then OK to go?
48:19
Do you know what might just get those lines removed completely?
48:22
I think is that OK? Well, it is.
48:25
I think for me, it's the bit that makes me so cross is this
48:30
obsession we have of bringing everything back to how somebody
48:34
looks, particularly women. Because it's almost like
48:39
impossible to have a conversation with anybody about
48:42
Madonna, let's just say, without it coming back to what she what
48:45
face look like, like what she looks like.
48:48
It's it's wonderful to have a conversation with somebody,
48:51
which I had with my mum where she was like, Oh, my goodness,
48:54
like I could never have got on stage at 67, you know, and to
48:58
dance and to move about and to be to still have that ambition,
49:02
to still have that motivation come up, you know, that kind of
49:06
energy. You know, all like, look at the
49:09
fact that she's reinventing. Look at the fact that she's, you
49:11
know, like it's like we are more than just a face.
49:14
And This is why even if I talk about aging or I share a woman
49:20
who hasn't had lots of work, it's all like, she looks really
49:23
good. She.
49:24
And it's like, yeah, I wasn't really talking about how she
49:26
looked like what she looks like. I'm talking about like that
49:29
amazed, amazing film she's just been in and how she was
49:32
representing women in their 70s. And you know, like, I was not
49:35
talking about her face. And it's really frustrating to
49:39
me. Yeah, it's kind of in the, well,
49:42
you know what, everybody, Kate's dogs are barking and it's
49:45
driving her insane. But it's all right because I
49:46
don't know if you could hear it, but I have a pug behind me.
49:48
He was just having a dream a second ago, and I could hear
49:50
behind me going. But I mean, to me, this thing of
49:58
always say, I mean, even women who think they're coming at it,
50:01
and particularly women I think are the ones that tend to bring
50:04
this kind of thing up, who, you know, that it should be kind of
50:07
natural aging. To me, it's just in the same
50:09
bucket of as like if you'd asked Christina, Christina, I don't
50:14
know how you pronounce her surname.
50:15
Is it just cock or cock or whatever?
50:17
But the female astronaut, like you did a press conference and
50:21
asked her what her skin care routine was in space.
50:23
Like, you know what I mean? You're saying somebody did or it
50:27
would be like, no, it would be like that.
50:29
As far as I'm aware, no one did. It would not surprise me, would
50:31
it you? No that.
50:32
Surprised me at all. It's it would it would be like
50:35
that. Is that you?
50:36
We always. Yeah.
50:37
The focus is always on what does she look like now?
50:40
What was she wearing? What was she doing this rather
50:41
than rather than performing. What's her latest record out?
50:45
She does, you know, she's a producer and she also has a
50:47
history, of course, of supporting like youngest.
50:49
That's supporting or working with younger stars like that.
50:52
I mean, let's not go into the Christina and Brittany
50:54
controversy when she was also apparently just trying to shock,
50:57
which, yeah, Madonna does. Maybe she should team up with
50:59
Nike. But just but run.
51:02
Another thing that I've seen kind of linked with this
51:05
definitely on the unrecognizable post I did was the amount of
51:09
women telling me that we shouldn't be obsessed with
51:13
celebrities. There's something really like
51:15
bad about this, like obsession that we have with celebrities.
51:19
Obviously me that I have, but also just we all have with
51:23
celebrities. And my answer to that was
51:25
because this was obviously about Angelina Jolie and Anne Hathaway
51:27
being unrecognizable. I'm like, they're both
51:30
actresses, they both have jobs, they both create art.
51:34
You can't, we wouldn't say that we need to stop being obsessed
51:37
with these celebrities. When we buy their records, we
51:39
listen to the radio, we watch their films, we go to the cinema
51:42
because these these women are working hard and doing amazing
51:46
things and creating art. And there's this again, I think
51:48
it's in, maybe it's just what I'm seeing online, but it's
51:51
real. Like they're just celebrities.
51:52
We should ignore them. And it's like, well, I bet
51:55
you'll all go and watch Devil Wears Prada too, won't you?
51:57
Which obviously is Anne Hathaway's film.
52:00
You know, you can't. Maybe it's just, it's back to
52:03
what I was saying earlier about this judgment thing.
52:05
Like, you just get judged for being famous now.
52:08
Like, literally you can be judged just for being an
52:10
actress. Everyone wants to judge it.
52:11
Or they say you're, you're, you know, I'm allowed to slate her
52:16
because she's in the public eye. I was like, yeah, but she's an
52:18
actress. She's not literally just famous
52:21
for nothing. You know, she does actually,
52:23
Maybe. We get a bit of that parasocial
52:25
thing coming up where people are a bit like people like, oh, I
52:28
don't know why everyone makes such a fuss about her.
52:30
She's she's nothing special. She's just a normal human being
52:33
and you go where she is. But she also has a job that puts
52:35
and the public eye kind of, you know, so people feel like they
52:37
know them and, you know, they have a relationship with them
52:40
and they're like, oh, why, why do you get all the attention?
52:42
And you go, well, because they're doing they're they're.
52:46
They're an Oscar winning, potentially actress or whatever,
52:49
you know, like. Yeah, So I do want to talk
52:53
about, though, because I found it really funny that Gen.
52:56
Z apparently not knowing who Madonna was when she turned the
53:00
when she was on stage with Sabrina Carpenter, because I
53:02
just find it hilarious because I was watching.
53:05
Yeah, I love, I love, I love it when it makes me feel old.
53:07
But there was a thing that popped up the other day of Gen.
53:09
Z's trying to pronounce Gen. X band names, which I found
53:11
amusing. So like they would put them up
53:13
on the screen and like get them to get them to read, read them
53:16
out like Lynyrd Skynyrd and. Although I have seen Gen.
53:20
X is being to read out Gen. Z, and that's even harder
53:24
because they're just symbols and things and it's.
53:27
Like like not the crew or you know, other other ones like
53:31
that. So even Portishead.
53:33
But anyway, so you know, there's and sometimes you're like, Oh my
53:36
God, how can they not know who they are?
53:38
Oh well, you know, you only just know who they are and you were
53:41
alive when they were. So maybe it's fine.
53:44
But Madonna, really, Madonna really feels like, you know,
53:47
iconic land to me. Well, Blind feel like you should
53:51
know who Madonna is because she's Madonna.
53:53
I agree. My children know who Madonna is.
53:56
And it's not because I play lots of Madonna.
53:58
I do not have a Madonna record. So, but they still know who
54:02
Madonna is. Now I wonder how will they know?
54:05
But they do know. And I think I was thinking about
54:07
this, you know, it's like me growing up but not knowing who
54:11
Elvis was, if you know what I mean, because that would have
54:13
been 30 years earlier or whatever.
54:16
And of course I knew who Elvis was because he was an icon and
54:20
and a pop music royalty. I think that's the point.
54:24
It's not just a like a random, you know, it's, they say my kids
54:29
didn't know who Alanis Morissette.
54:31
I mean, they do know who Alanis Morissette is.
54:33
You know, fair enough. But Madonna, I mean, that's
54:36
like, it's like Michael Jackson level, isn't it?
54:38
Like they know who Michael Jackson and they also know who
54:40
Elvis and The Beatles are, even though they were in the 60s.
54:44
So this is what I feel like. It's like it's your, it's the
54:47
history of your culture, isn't it?
54:49
Like, so I feel like there's specific people that that you
54:53
should know who they are. Like, like I would go with like
54:55
in pop, Madonna, Elvis, The Beatles, maybe the Stones,
54:59
Queen. You think, yeah, stick Queen in
55:01
there. You know, there's these people
55:03
that you regardless of whether you actually like their music or
55:06
not, I feel like you should know.
55:08
But it's not like she takes it out.
55:11
Yeah, it's not like she hasn't been around for like 30 years.
55:14
I mean, she does sort of pop up. You know, she was on the
55:18
Remember the Brits performance when she got pulled over and
55:21
pulled down the stairs by accident.
55:23
But my kids were alive for that. We watched.
55:28
But then, but you know, again, these things are in your head,
55:31
aren't they? Because I'm thinking about it,
55:32
you know, it's like, I would know, like an actor like Cary
55:35
Grant, for instance. Or.
55:37
Someone like that and you? Know my children wouldn't.
55:40
No. Oh, would they not?
55:41
No, no, but they would know who's who's a Rob Lowe, but he's
55:45
still around. I was just thinking an 80s actor
55:49
that was I think it's about the era, isn't it?
55:52
So, so my children born my youngest 2010.
55:56
So she's not going to know somebody that was an actor in
56:00
famous character, you know, like 56 or the 40s, like back to the
56:04
40s for like, yeah, that's too old, but she should know an
56:08
iconic like 70s or 80s. But then again, a lot of the
56:12
iconic ones are still acting. So it's a bit of a trip to think
56:14
of 1. But then, but why then why
56:17
shouldn't they know someone from like the 40s as well?
56:22
Down to parents a bit as well I think.
56:24
What you actually watch. Because I would.
56:27
I knew who Glenn Miller and the Andrew sisters were.
56:30
I mean, to be fair, I wouldn't necessarily expect everybody to
56:32
know those. That might have just been my
56:34
Grampy, but I was just, I was going to say, yeah, that might
56:39
just be me. You know, I wanted, I wanted a
56:41
afternoon tea with tea and cucumber sandwiches for my 18th
56:45
birthday. I may not be a normal human
56:46
being. I didn't want that.
56:48
I didn't want that. I just wanted lots of.
56:50
Glenn Miller and The Andrews Sisters.
56:52
Yeah, That may well just be me. I just, I, you know, it's like
56:55
knowing who I don't know George Washington is.
56:57
Or is it it, it's the, you know, there's cultural history and
57:00
political history and stuff like that.
57:02
I mean, you know who Shakespeare is?
57:04
He's been, he hasn't produced anything new in a while, isn't
57:06
it? So that's cool.
57:08
You don't learn about music and film at school unless you're
57:12
doing media. But you know, like, generally
57:14
speaking. But I feel like Madonna.
57:17
Well, I'll have to, I'll have to come back and ask, ask my
57:21
children, how did you know about Madonna?
57:23
They just know about Madonna. But that's because she has
57:26
appeared like, she was on the Grammys, she was on, she's been
57:29
on the Brit Award. She hasn't like just come back
57:31
after being in the wilderness for 30 years.
57:34
So it's not like, but then I think there's this kind of, is
57:37
it just cool to go? Who's she a bit like there's
57:40
lots of people my age going who's Sabrina Carpenter?
57:43
And it's like, well, that's not cool either.
57:45
Like just open the newspaper. Or or like watch the Brit Awards
57:51
or I don't know. To be fair, I'm not always that
57:54
good with music people, but I do know who Sabrina Carpenter is.
57:56
Yeah, I think, I think you know, you know.
58:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess I'm going to have to ask
58:04
them how do they know? How do you know Madonna and see
58:07
what they come? Yeah, I am always intrigued
58:09
where like that some of that kind of cultural knowledge comes
58:12
from. Like how do you do you just just
58:15
feel like you just you just know these people.
58:18
If you're, if you're interested and pay attention to the world,
58:21
is it that is it the attention span that no one has the
58:23
attention span anymore. If they're not on TikTok, they
58:25
don't exist. Yeah, a fairpoint.
58:27
So yeah, who knows? But anyway, I thought it was
58:31
fabulous. I love Vogue.
58:33
I love like a prayer. And I'm not particularly a fan.
58:36
I was a fan, you know, when I was like 10, 11.
58:39
They had like a prayer used to do little dances, Yeah.
58:42
Although I think I'm a little bit older than you, so I
58:44
remember Holiday right at the beginning and watching her on
58:46
top of the sports. So yeah, I think it was great.
58:50
I don't like the way we are now policing.
58:53
You know how we've we're all, we're policing everything.
58:56
You know, we're policing women's bodies, we're policing how women
58:59
look. But now we're policing how you
59:01
even talk about aging and it's like, oh man, we're.
59:04
Just. It's just.
59:06
Just stop judging, Stop judging. Just stop judging, please.
59:10
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