Latest / America's Why Project / Episode 13: Hard Jobs – Listening on the Front Lines of Healthcare

Transcript

Episode 13: Hard Jobs – Listening on the Front Lines of Healthcare · America's Why Project

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_05: Even if you cannot help, always respond with compassion to people seeking your help.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the America's Why Podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, I'm your host, Matt Levincher.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Today, as part of our chapter on how to listen, we are trying something new.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're bringing our team members into the podcast.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the first person we're talking to today, who's who's just uh recorded a really wonderful episode, is Amy McCampbell, our creative director.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Amy, it's great to have you here.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we just wanted to talk a little bit about what you had in mind with this episode and how it fits into the broader ambition of our project.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, I've always been interested in people in the background, uh, especially in some service industry or another.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking so much about listening to people and getting to know them for where they are in life and who they are, and that begins with really listening to their stories.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this chapter is about how we listen.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a good friend of mine who happens to work uh in kind of a call center who listens to complaints all day long for people who want to bring those complaints to the larger institution.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I've never worked in a call center before.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I have no idea what goes on there.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: All I can think of is just, gosh, he listens to people complain for eight hours a day.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get to know that a little more.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get to know how he navigates those environments.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Amy.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And when we talked about this particular episode, we said a great series of episodes for this podcast is hard jobs.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't think of a harder job than sitting in a hospital complaints line for eight hours a day and listening to people that my gosh, yes, I can't imagine either, which is why I'm so glad that I got to actually interview him.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got to learn a lot from that.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was a lot of fun, and I'm honestly looking forward to sharing that with the rest of our listeners.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so am I, Amy.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so uh tell us just a little bit about yourself, how you came to the project, and and uh how you're hoping that this project is gonna help with our broader challenge of solving hard problems together.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Well, you had approached me in the beginning with Amy, you're a creative person.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: You you know how to organize themes and structures, and would you be interested in working on this project that I'm doing where we're listening to people and we're learning how to bring strategic narratives to the table on how to exact how exactly did we get here as a nation?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this whole uh understanding of, you know, what is America's why?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: What is the narrative we're chasing?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: What are our goals?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, that drew me in.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you know what, I've recognized the same thing.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: What is going on over here?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I loved most of all the fact that you wanted to make it very open-mic, very conversationally friendly, that anybody could have a civil discussion and civilly and wonderfully agree to disagree, even if it came to those uh parts.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I loved more so the fact that it wasn't just knowledge for knowledge's sake.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: You want to actually take what we learn from what we're doing here and bring it out into the broader world for everybody to understand, hey, this is how this is how we listen to each other.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is how we have conversations as human beings.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so drawn to that because everyone comes from different walks of life, different experiences, and not a day is wasted in our lives.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I love getting to listen more and more to how people navigate the world through their eyes, because it helps me to come to the table with that empathy, be like, yeah, yeah, okay, I think I'm starting to get it now.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's great.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: At the tail end of your interview with Anthony, you ask him to come up with a syllabus for a course on what he does on listening on the complaints line.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he said he would call the course Thank You for Sharing.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to hearing you share the upcoming tape of your interview with Anthony.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the America's Why Project, Anthony.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you and I have known each other for a little while, mostly through our social groups and through church and DD, but you also made it known to me quite a few months back that you work for the complaints department.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is that correct?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_05: And that is correct, specifically for our ambulatory division, which is composed of almost 300 clinics.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you very much for your service.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: In your industry, walk me through kind of a day in the life.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: You you basically handle all of the complaint calls.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Is that for the doctors or is that for the industry?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_05: It's basically any complaint that our organization uh takes in, uh, specifically for our ambulatory division.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um we basically handle calls, emails, even referral complaints from our team members if and when they do have some patients that cause some, I would say, um unwelcome behavior.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_05: We handle also warnings and dismissals within our uh within our team.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_05: Just to also let you know the structure of our team is basically back then, about six months ago, we were only there were only two of us that handles the complaints across the Tory Division, which, like I said, is 300 clinics, give or take, uh, and growing, actually.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: So we might probably hit 300 in the next two, three years, even further here in Northern Virginia.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_05: And like I said, basically it's every single complaint stemming from financial disputes, uh, team member behaviors, and or misdiagnosis, or you know, whatever the world, what everything that can be complained under the sun is basically my experience working with this organization.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_05: So there were two of us handling that one, and there was a slight time in the past few years where it was just by myself for six months, unfortunately, because my team member had to go on an extended period of leave, uh, unfortunately, but they are well and back and up and running, and now we have grown to three people.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's way better than two people.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_05: Way better than three uh two people, exactly.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_05: Then we had three people uh almost at the beginning of this year, and we we are making sure that he stays uh longer than um longer than you know, longer than hopefully a year or two.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, here's the hopefully a year or two.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: I wow, okay.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you guys are basically just kind of thrown to the masses and told, yeah, okay.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: So what is the best way to listen to people in order to meet them where they are?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So the point of like America's Why Project, we're in this place now where we're gathering all of these people together and we're opening up the mic to anybody and everybody when it comes to listening to what's going on in our country and all over the world.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And what's the best ways to listen to people?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you mentally prepare yourself for the day?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, what's the best way you listen to people?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_05: Well, how do I prepare?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_05: You you never prepare.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: You're never prepared to take on any complaint.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think it's because I'm so used to this nature of my role these days.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_05: Just say complaints in general.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you hear people argue, you have disagreements, and you have different perspectives on how you view things.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_05: My approach basically is just to meet them where they're at.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I am a blank slave, I keep an open mind, and I make sure that, all right, tell me everything that you want to tell me.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I will sit down, listen, and just make sure that everything that you need to share is being heard.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_05: At the same time, you know, just vent out.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_05: Because more than words, more than specific complaints itself, having conversations with people, you want them to basically unload their emotions.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_05: And that is one thing that never prep that you cannot ever prepare for emotional dump you basically in either work, career, relationship-wise, personal-wise, or family dynamics.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_05: You can never ever uh prepare emotionally for it because you can never expect what to what's gonna be thrown at you.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_05: So expect the unexpected expect it's unexpected, you know, and just numb I think the bit the bottom line is keep an open mind and listen.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_05: Like when I say listen, don't just hear their words, you know.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_05: Listen, I was like, okay, and then use yes, you will have questions, and maybe you will have some answers at the same time.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_05: Don't rebuke, don't rebut.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_05: Listen, you have something to say, probably a policy or a process that, well, you have it wrong.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_05: No, that's the worst approach you could do to tell them, well, you're wrong, we're right.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_05: No, just listen to them, tell them that hey, I hear you, I see where you're coming from, I understand where um what you're saying, you know, be in their shoes.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_05: I know it's easier said than dying, but literally be in their shoes.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_05: And you don't want to be biased against your organization or company or anything that you are representing as the person who is, you know, receiving these complaints.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_05: So you can't be prepared, but you can be at the very least having the mindset of expecting the unexpected and really being visibly and attentive to what they're saying.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Very well put.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's really great.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: So when the conversations get difficult, my mind tracks back to the time you told me about uh one of the people on the other side of the phone who's complaining about getting a bill for zero dollars and zero cents.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking, you know, when the conversation gets that kind of difficult where there's clear miscommunication, or when people are inclined to argue with something uh about something that they can't change, how do you how do you meet them there?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you kind of compromise or negotiate your way to the middle ground where you can find a solution together?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_05: It's more of like the thing, no, hey, I listen to your concern, repeat what they said, basically, rehash everything so that when they when when given you your time to talk back to them once they say, hey, is that everything?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_05: Like, let me respond.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so make sure that you don't get interrupted when you respond, because some patients will interrupt you while you're speaking.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_05: If I if that does happen, I will immediately quiet myself and say, is there anything more?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_05: Let them literally unload everything until they have nothing left in the tank so that they don't have any.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, probably some will.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_05: And so it's sometimes it's warfutrician, honestly.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_05: War of attrition.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, who can last longer, you or me?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but when when that happens, just rehash everything that they said, acknowledge that that's that that's the one thing you need to acknowledge everything.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_05: Not saying that you are gonna fix their problem, it's mainly saying, I'm acknowledging what you just said.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_05: Meaning, for at the very least, for the patients or for anybody in general, say, oh, he actually listened to me.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_05: You're giving that perception, whether it's real or not, it depends on who the person it is.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_05: For me, I actually take things to a personal level, but I do not carry it more than what I when when I need to.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_05: When I say that one is because my job is to be this person for you Monday through Friday, 8 to 5.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_05: Uh after that, I yes, I might I may do some overtime, just you know, typing in my notes, writing emails, finishing it off.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_05: But at the end of the day, I don't need to carry that back home to my church, to my house, to my friend group.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's things that I can think about, ponder, but I am not gonna what do you call this, spiral down that thought.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, no, that was a heavy case.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_05: It may or may not happen to you, but me personally, if I leave work, if I shut down my computer, if I close everything out, that's it.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_05: I I think this works out because I'm a guy, and you look at it this way.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_05: Guy's head brain works like a compartment box.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_05: Everything has its place.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_05: And this does not touch this.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_05: You've seen those memes and those uh um scenes from YouTube.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_05: It's like the this brain, this part of my brain does not touch this part of the brain, does not this part of the brain, it is there, and we have this part of the brain called the empty box that we can just sit down there and just be empty.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_05: It's not that we're having any problems or anything like that, we're just sitting down, enjoying peace.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you just have that kind of intentional compartmental uh compartmentalization wherein you're like, this is my work and this is my home life.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I see.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_05: And after you acknowledge and you tell them, um, let them know what to expect next.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_05: You know?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_05: Let them know to expect at the very least the worst thing you can have them expect is that you're gonna resolve their problem.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_05: That's the worst promise you can ever have because sometimes the problem cannot be resolved in its sense, but letting them know, okay, this is what I'm gonna do, this is how long you're gonna wait.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_05: If you need answers or questions during this time of waiting period, please reach out to me.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_05: You know, let them know that you're still available, but let them know that we're I am gonna work on contacting the appropriate leaders, the appropriate people, talk to the people who are basically involved in this concern of yours, or even compliment, you know, making sure that I get to the right people, and once I gathered all that information, you know, I or somebody will reach out back to you to explain to you at the very least what our answer would be.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_05: Whether the patient or whoever the person is, um, will accept it or not, you know.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_05: But based on the investigation, based on how we research it, based on how we review everything within safety guidelines, not because you want it this way or we want it this way.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_05: This is making sure that you're safe and your well-being is our priority at the same time, our safety as a team too, and our guidelines to make sure that we are doing the right thing is being followed.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I hate, and this is me, and I learned this from my boss.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's just the three-piece, but I am blanking on the third P, um, which is never tell the patient policy, process, or protocol, I think was the third three three pieces.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_05: Never tell them, oh, because saying those three pieces basically you're bound to something.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_05: It's like I can't go beyond this one.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, yeah, maybe you can, but at the same time, I'd like to tell them that's like this these are safety guidelines.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: We just meant to make sure that you're safe and we're safe.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_05: You know, that's the bottom line with healthcare.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_05: Healthcare is making sure that each every other people we meet and including ourselves are safe and making sure that there isn't gonna be no or at least close to zero harm that is gonna be affected to you and to us.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_05: That's our bottom line with healthcare.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_05: This is not uh this is not an insurance company, uh although sometimes, and I hate to say this, but the insurances runs everything, and we hate it, and sometimes it is a roadblock to our healthcare.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's quite the balance to strike there, is doing the emotional triage, but also knowing exactly how to do your job and circumstances.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: So for those of us who aren't paid a salary wage to listen to complaints over the phone um Monday through Friday, I've got to ask.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, say you're a professor in some university, you're adjunct, you've been brought on board because you're really, really good at this.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you have to create like a weekend seminar for some students, maybe communications class.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they want to know how you can make up a course surrounding this kind of listening skill for the real world outside of the office, outside of obligations.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what would what would the course kind of look like?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: What would you prioritize the most?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_05: You look at it this way.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_05: I'm a Christian too.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I believe in God, I follow Christ at the same time.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_05: You know who's also being underpaid, if not paid enough to listen to your complaints?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_05: Pastors.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_05: Your spiritual leaders out of church.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: They listen to that every day.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_05: They do get paid?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_05: Not as much as you think, but they need to carry that burden, they carry that load.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_05: Ha! If I'm gonna make a sermon sermon or uh um what do you call this a seminar out of this one, the first thing you want to lead is like you look when somebody approaches you with a concern, anybody, it means that that person looks to you for help.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_05: If you see somebody drowning looking for help, what is your first reaction?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_05: I need to help this person.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_05: You know, that's a very tangible action.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_05: When somebody approaches you with a concern or with a complaint or with anything, it that that basically means that that person is looking to you, specifically to you, for a solution for an answer.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_05: As a person, you actually should take that to say, Oh wow, this person is looking to me for help, knowing not may knowing or not knowing that I'm capable of helping them, but they see you as somebody who may help them.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_05: You actually should be proud of yourself.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_05: You should actually you should be thankful of like, oh wow, uh I am somebody sees me.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_05: Most people feel like they're not being seen.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_05: But when somebody actually approaches you with some concern, be really grateful that somebody actually sees you because sometimes most of you are like, nobody sees me, nobody pays attention to me.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_05: But when you actually have people who actually reach out to you and looks for you specifically, be grateful that actually somebody's actually seeing you because they know that you can provide something or at least point uh help them be pointed in the direction where they can find help.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_05: So be thankful.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_05: So when you when you encounter those situations, first thing you need to do is be grateful because you may or may not provide the solution or answers that they need.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_05: Gratefulness is what you're gonna do.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's like uh I don't I don't have a quick quirky uh name for this seminar, but uh you know, grateful, uh you know, thank you for thank you for sharing, basically.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you for sharing is what I would say, you know, thank you for sharing, you know, whatever it is, and just be grateful that somebody actually sees you because most people don't feel like they're being seen.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_05: At the same time, when the one of the topics I'll probably main topic, and this will probably be the highlight of this eminent, is like you look at them with compassion because you genuinely seem no wanted want to help them, look with them with compassion, not with disgust, not just like really how stupid are you?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: No, that will turn them off and turn them away from you.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you want to know even even if you cannot help, always respond with compassion to people seeking your help.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_05: And probably the be honest, be honest if you can actually help them or not.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_05: Some people will act like they're helping you, but they're scammy.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_05: That I don't know how many times I've done uh that has happened to me when I sought help to people and they were actually scamming me.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: Uh auto mechanics, man mainly.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me that's not true.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta be careful with that.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not saying that all auto mechanics will screw you over, but there are some will screw you over.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: You just needed a tire pressure change, and they did change the whole control arm.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, why did you all say, oh, it was falling apart, but it's not falling apart.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_05: Why did you change it?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's still working fine for me.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_05: Who also you know I was like, so you gotta be careful about those ones.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: So leading with honesty and empathy.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_05: Honesty, empathy, and just looking at them with compassion.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_05: You know, so okay, this person is looking, looking to me for help.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: Let me genuinely as human beings, even if you don't believe in God or not, you know, helping each other is what our society needs to grow.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_05: If we don't, we'll basically be an anarchy and everybody's, you know, the strong conquers the weak, you know.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: You know, that kind of that kind of world, nobody wants to live in that world.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: You know?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_05: Might this right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_05: No thanks.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's been an absolute pleasure getting to talk with you.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really, really great to hear that leading with this kind of concept of empathy and taking the time and the courage to meet people where they are and not just where we want them to be, I think is a really wonderful thing.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_05: And it takes a lot of practice.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not saying that you can over you can overnight this kind of mentality because there are still days in my career, even in my personal life, that I sometimes it's like, why?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_05: Ask why.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, your your process is America's why.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_05: And sometimes it's like, why are you asking me?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, I got no time for that one.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_05: But number one, grateful that you actually, you know, want to know what my perspective is and how my brain works when it comes to this kind of uh topic or situation.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_05: But you know, but Ask yourself, why is this person asking me this question?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_05: Why is this person approaching me?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_05: Why?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_05: And because, bottom line, they see you as somebody who can help, or at the very least, point them in the right direction.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_05: Be grateful about that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's been an absolute pleasure, Anthony.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for your time.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: You're listening to the America's Wide Podcast.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: Our music is by James Fernando.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: For more information and to join the conversation, please visit our website at America's Wide Project.com.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: See you next week.