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Rising Above the Liquidity Crisis: Navigating Interest Rate Changes with Strategic Oversight · Leaders in Lending

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Leaders in Lending from Upstart, a podcast
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  Speaker 1: dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve
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  Speaker 1: their product offerings. Each week, here, decision makers in the
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  Speaker 1: finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry,
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  Speaker 1: best practices around digital transformation, and more.
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  Speaker 2: Let's get into the show, Hi, and welcome to Upstarts
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  Speaker 2: Leaders in Lending podcast. I'm your host Barry Roach. On
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  Speaker 2: today's show, We're joined by Dustin Holmberg, the chief revenue
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  Speaker 2: and lending officer at Clearview Federal Credit Union.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 2: Clearview is a thriving, two billion asset credit union headquarter
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  Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh. They have an airline employee heritage, and they've
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  Speaker 2: been community chartered for the past twenty years, serving one
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  Speaker 2: hundred and twenty thousand members throughout western Pennsylvania. They were
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  Speaker 2: avoid a top workplace in twenty twenty four by the
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  Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Post Gazette, NUSA Today, and Cleary was named one
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  Speaker 2: of America's best credit unions by Newsweek. Welcome to the show, Dustin,
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  Speaker 2: are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm doing well?
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  Speaker 2: Berry?
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  Speaker 3: How are you today?
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  Speaker 2: Good? Doing well? Thank you so? Justin a little bit
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  Speaker 2: about yourself kind of your your history throughout your career.
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  Speaker 2: I know you and I have a lot of shared history,
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  Speaker 2: but i'd kind of like you to tell the audience
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  Speaker 2: where you came from and kind of how you got
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  Speaker 2: to where you are today.
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  Speaker 3: Well, thank you. So I grew up in a military family.
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  Speaker 3: My dad was in the Air Force. We kind of
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  Speaker 3: moved around a bunch when I was young, and through
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  Speaker 3: that experience, I learned the value of hard work and adaptability,
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  Speaker 3: and you learn you learn how to make friends quickly,
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  Speaker 3: you know, when you move in from place to place.
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  Speaker 3: I think I think I actually lived in fifteen houses
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  Speaker 3: before I graduated high school. So you can't let the
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  Speaker 3: grass grow under your feet. You have to jump in,
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  Speaker 3: get involved when you move from place to place, and
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  Speaker 3: that kind of thing.
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  Speaker 2: That's great. So similarly, my father was a banker and
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  Speaker 2: back in the day, and I'm going I won't tell
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  Speaker 2: you how when I was born, but you know, way
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  Speaker 2: back in the day, it was very common. Every couple
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  Speaker 2: of years or so, we moved and it was to
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  Speaker 2: a town, and that's when the branch manager was sort
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  Speaker 2: of a big deal in these smaller towns I lived in.
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  Speaker 2: But I was always a new kid, right and my sister,
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  Speaker 2: my poor sister, and take her six months to find
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  Speaker 2: one friend. Within a week, i'd have, you know, the
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  Speaker 2: whole neighborhood over in the backyard. We'd be playing baseball
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  Speaker 2: or something like that. So I'll say that for myself,
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  Speaker 2: it kind of gave me some skills early in life
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  Speaker 2: and adaptability to be able to get out there and
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  Speaker 2: to sort of meet people and certainly help me in
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  Speaker 2: my career. I'm sure you had a summer serve An experience.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you really do learn how to build camaraderie.
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  Speaker 3: You learn how to if you're going to fit in,
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  Speaker 3: you got to fit in quick. And sports obviously helps
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  Speaker 3: you learn a lot of those lessons, Like you gain
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  Speaker 3: trust by giving trust first, you learn you also have
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  Speaker 3: to take some risks. You also learn how to speak
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  Speaker 3: different languages. And by when I say different languages, we
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  Speaker 3: talk a lot about that here internally with my team.
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  Speaker 3: But it's not necessarily different languages in the way that
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  Speaker 3: you think typically, but it's more you know, using words
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  Speaker 3: that that resonate with the with the audience, and you
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  Speaker 3: know there are different dialects around each region, and so
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  Speaker 3: you have to learn that speak the uh speak the
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  Speaker 3: home language, as it were.
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  Speaker 2: So there's more than one dialect around Western Pennsylvania, Is
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  Speaker 2: that what you're telling me?
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  Speaker 3: Western Pa is its own is its own unique dialect,
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  Speaker 3: that's for sure. I've had to learn a few new
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  Speaker 3: words come out.
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  Speaker 2: Here, or West Texas for that matter, right.
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  Speaker 3: There, Yes, yes, the difference between y'all and YenS is.
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  Speaker 2: But you can you can play in both spaces now
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  Speaker 2: at this point.
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  Speaker 3: Right absolutely, absolutely, good good.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I you know, in honor of West Texas, I
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  Speaker 2: had to bring on my little bobble head doll here.
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  Speaker 2: So okay, good, Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: It's tough being a Cowboys fan living in Steelers Country,
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  Speaker 3: that's for sure, I guess.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, so we have we have a low
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  Speaker 2: budget on Learers and Lane. That's the one prop I have.
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  Speaker 2: So okay, now let's let's uh uh, let's talk about
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  Speaker 2: things happening in the credit union industry, things happening with
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  Speaker 2: clear view. It's it's almost the end of twenty four.
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  Speaker 2: Can't believe it's already October now, And boy, what a
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  Speaker 2: year it's been. Right, twelve months ago, we were in
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  Speaker 2: the middle of a liquidity crisis. We all thought, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: the Fed's going to reduce rates. What four or five
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  Speaker 2: six rate cuts we're going to see that by now
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  Speaker 2: we just had one just in the past couple of weeks.
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  Speaker 2: The two ten spread finally has come back from being
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  Speaker 2: in negative territory only in the past couple of weeks,
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  Speaker 2: and we get into a positive shift, which you know
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  Speaker 2: is you know, in credit unions. I mean, now we're
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  Speaker 2: gaining to a point where there's sort of a natural
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  Speaker 2: spread that we can start to plan for. As we
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  Speaker 2: talk about the difference between deposit and loan rates and
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  Speaker 2: so on, maybe tell the audience a little bit about
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  Speaker 2: how Clearview has worked to sort of combat those equity
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  Speaker 2: challenges that have happened. And if you've had to make
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  Speaker 2: any sort of shifts in your business lending or deposits
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  Speaker 2: this case, maybe.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think if you didn't make any changes to
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  Speaker 3: your lending strategy you say that you haven't had to
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  Speaker 3: make any tweaks, then I'm not sure you were trying
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  Speaker 3: really in the first place. I think, you know, twenty
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  Speaker 3: two is really kind of the banner year for for
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  Speaker 3: credit unions and for the industry as a whole. You know,
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  Speaker 3: it was it was everybody was borrowing. That was the
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  Speaker 3: year when you know, rates were still kind of at
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  Speaker 3: that affordability level, but you know they're kind of still raising.
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  Speaker 3: It was one of the strongest lending production years historically.
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  Speaker 3: I'm not one hundred percent sure it's going to go
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  Speaker 3: down as one of the best as it were, but
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  Speaker 3: but but you know, from a production standpoint, definitely very strong.
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  Speaker 3: I think in many ways, something's changed within the marketplace
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  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two that allowed people to have a
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  Speaker 3: little bit more kind of extra you know, budget to
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  Speaker 3: be able to borrow. Something may have changed within the
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  Speaker 3: borrowers' profiles that wasn't necessarily captured by the traditional underwriting
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  Speaker 3: or credit credit models, and so I think that was
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  Speaker 3: that was a that was a major shift that happened.
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  Speaker 3: And coming off of twenty twenty two into twenty twenty
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  Speaker 3: three and twenty twenty four, if the expectation was you
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  Speaker 3: were going to continue to keep making loans at the
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  Speaker 3: same pace, and it really wasn't the case. And you know,
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  Speaker 3: liquidity crunch, particularly after this the Kon Valley Bank incident,
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  Speaker 3: put credit unions into place that they really hadn't been
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  Speaker 3: in a couple of decades. We found that we had
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  Speaker 3: an entire generation of the workforce that grew up in
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  Speaker 3: a historically low and flat interest rate environment, and we
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  Speaker 3: had to introduce this new thing. It's called a CD.
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  Speaker 3: It's a it's as traditional thing for banks and credit
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  Speaker 3: unis to offer. But if you really kind of think
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  Speaker 3: about it, when was the last time that CD rates
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  Speaker 3: even really mattered. I mean it was really kind of
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  Speaker 3: more before the Great Financial Crisis when that was the case.
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  Speaker 3: And so we were faced, uh, you know, working with
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  Speaker 3: a workforce that were new to the industry and maybe
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  Speaker 3: they didn't even know what a CD was before they
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  Speaker 3: got into the industry, and so that was that was
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  Speaker 3: really kind of one of those major levers. I remember
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  Speaker 3: also too, because we were in this you know, historical
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  Speaker 3: rise and interest rates, having to write a bunch of
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  Speaker 3: articles and education pieces, different internal blogs for our team
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  Speaker 3: members here where I had to remind them that, you know,
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  Speaker 3: three percent mortgage wasn't normal, that was actually a historical
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  Speaker 3: outlier versus versus what the six to eight percent, which
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  Speaker 3: is the you know, kind of more historical averages. And
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  Speaker 3: so you know, it really kind of became one of
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  Speaker 3: those grieving processes that you helped both your team and
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  Speaker 3: your members kind of moved through over the last couple
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  Speaker 3: of years, and it's really kind of been a balancing act.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, that's interesting. I hadn't really thought of the
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  Speaker 2: impact on the team. I mean, I've been in financial
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  Speaker 2: services for over thirty years, so been through the Great
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  Speaker 2: Financial Crisis. You know, saw things in the nineties as
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  Speaker 2: inflation was rising, and we had issues in the late nineties,
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  Speaker 2: and then the run up with tech stocks and so on, right,
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  Speaker 2: that little bit of a bubble. But there was a
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  Speaker 2: time when you could charge seven pay three. You all
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  Speaker 2: went home Friday night and everyone was happy. Customers were happy,
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  Speaker 2: members were happy. Right, it was so much, so much easier.
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  Speaker 2: But I hadn't really thought of that angle with the team.
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  Speaker 2: So how exactly do you sort of train a train
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  Speaker 2: those folks to sort of look for those opportun cotunities
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  Speaker 2: or to maybe find ways that you can that you
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  Speaker 2: can get solutions for your members without sort of having
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  Speaker 2: to make any substant changes to your product suite.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you know, we had some serious
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  Speaker 3: and very candidate internal conversations, and the one thing that
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  Speaker 3: we had to make sure of is that when we
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  Speaker 3: put a CD rate out there that was actually going
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  Speaker 3: to have an effect. You know, that was really something
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  Speaker 3: that we hadn't Those were muscles that we really hadn't
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  Speaker 3: exercised for many, many years in the financial industry, and
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  Speaker 3: so we didn't know that if we put a CD
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  Speaker 3: rate out there that members would actually respond. Again, it
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  Speaker 3: was also became a little bit of an education piece
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  Speaker 3: for them. You still saw, you know, kind of industry wide,
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  Speaker 3: we kind of had this balance sheet problem. So many
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  Speaker 3: of our so many of our assets were in these
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  Speaker 3: non maturing shares and these short term and kind of accounts,
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  Speaker 3: and members really were they didn't instantly move it the
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  Speaker 3: second that you put CDs out there. It was really
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  Speaker 3: kind of crazy to watch kind of a agile movement
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  Speaker 3: over time, and uh, you know, it was just it
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  Speaker 3: was it was something that was that was that was
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  Speaker 3: a challenge and something that we didn't know we were
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  Speaker 3: going to be successful at. But what we did find
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  Speaker 3: is that, you know, the investments that we made into
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  Speaker 3: our brand and our brand awareness helped us get to
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  Speaker 3: the right audience. We worked with our teams and were
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  Speaker 3: able to, uh, to navigate the choppy waters.
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  Speaker 2: That's great. Yeah, that Sleepy Money sort of woke up right.
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  Speaker 2: We just called you know, I have a crediting background
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  Speaker 2: as well, and we called sleepy money. It was just
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  Speaker 2: those those regular shares that that had been in in
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  Speaker 2: those accounts forever and were not necessarily happy with the
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: low rates that were being paid on savings accounts, but
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: certainly weren't compelled to move it until we saw five
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  Speaker 2: percent CDs and so on. Interesting, just with clear view,
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  Speaker 2: how did you were you finding new deposits coming in
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  Speaker 2: or was it more of a strategy to try and
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  Speaker 2: retain the deposits that you had, or maybe it was
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  Speaker 2: it a bit of both.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a little bit of both. And right,
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  Speaker 3: you're looking to you understand that when you put those
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  Speaker 3: CD rates and those CD specials out there, that there
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  Speaker 3: is a certain amount of that that's going to be
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  Speaker 3: hot money. But you hope that you that there's enough
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  Speaker 3: that you get to hold on to on the back
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  Speaker 3: end with those members. You bring them in the door
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  Speaker 3: and show them good service and hope that you can
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  Speaker 3: retain the business.
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  Speaker 2: Right, right, and the reason for those to posits, I
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  Speaker 2: guess you know. Lending, I've heard sort of different strategies
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  Speaker 2: across the country. Some credit unis and banks had no
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  Speaker 2: problem meeting lending growth goals in twenty three and twenty four.
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  Speaker 2: Some are struggling depending on the region they're in or
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: the affordability of housing, for example, I think the mortgage
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: spaces is a little bit different. Talk to us a
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: little bit about in Western Pennsylvania sort of your your
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  Speaker 2: main market. I mean, what have been the main drivers
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  Speaker 2: for lending growth in well?
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  Speaker 3: I think industry, right, we had a balance sheet problem,
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  Speaker 3: you know, we had we had We've gone through so
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: many years where interest rate risk was. It was something
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  Speaker 3: we discussed in Alco and Alco, but we didn't really
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  Speaker 3: actually think it was something that could that could sink
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  Speaker 3: the ship. And so we you know, we we had
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  Speaker 3: lent some money out and now you're starting to see
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  Speaker 3: your cost of funds rise because you're having to actually
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: pay for some of those shares to keep them on
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: the books. And so conventional wisdom tells you that you
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: want to extend while the rates are high. Well, not
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  Speaker 3: every credit union was in the in the position to
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: be able to do that. Also, you weren't used to
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  Speaker 3: being able to get you know, four four and a
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  Speaker 3: half five percent on overnight deposits. And then it became
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  Speaker 3: a real real question like do you take that extra
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  Speaker 3: interest rate, you know, do you take the interest rate risk,
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  Speaker 3: do you take the credit risk, or do you keep
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: it in overnights? And I think a lot of credit
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  Speaker 3: unions used the last year, even if they didn't necessarily
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: meet their their long growth goals. I think for us,
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  Speaker 3: it was more about balancing the you know, balancing the
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: net interest margin and making sure that there was you know,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: a sufficient amount of profitability there to reach our revenue goals.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, and a push pull between the finance and
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  Speaker 2: the lending groups. Right. Finance group is like, hey, wait,
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  Speaker 2: I can get risk free in the fours. The lending
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  Speaker 2: groups like, well wait a minute. You know, we have
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  Speaker 2: members that need to serve. Right, So it's not just
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  Speaker 2: the additional revenue that you earned from the the from
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: from the spread of those sort of higher rate loans,
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  Speaker 2: but also putting money on the street, right. I Mean,
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  Speaker 2: that's that's really what credit inges are all about, is
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  Speaker 2: about making sure that that that we have funds available
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  Speaker 2: in the community for those who need it to buy
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: that next house, or to buy the next vehicle and
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: so on. So you know, not to get too deep
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  Speaker 2: into sort of clear view, and you know, the fistfights
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: that might have happened in the boardrooms or so on.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: But but I have heard that sort of across the
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: country that that there was a bit of a push
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: pull between finance and lending. How do you work with
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: with your with your executive team to to to make
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: sure that you're served, You're you're on you maybe on
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: different cars of the train, but you're on the same track.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I think that that comes to the relationships that you
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: build with the other executives and the organization. I think, uh,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: you know, our CFO and myself have a great relationship.
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  Speaker 3: We work very very closely, have regular conversations about you know, alternatives.
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  Speaker 3: I think we always talk about, you know, what are
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: the what are the different options that are available to
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: us at any given time, and we we do take
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: a good holistic approach. I think that's with my background
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: also not only being in the lending but also having
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: an enterprise risk management kind of component to my background
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: as well. I tend to take a much a much
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: more holistic approach to the revenue and what we want
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: to do is we want to build something that's that's sustainable.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: I don't want to just go and go out and
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: make a bunch of little gains that are that are
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: one time gains for the organization. We want to invest
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: in business that's that's sustainable for the organization. And I
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: think you're exactly right where you were talking about, you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: we we want to keep enough powder drive for our
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: current membership. I think that was also a major problem
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: coming out of twenty two and twenty three. We really
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: had to raise rates at a very drastic rate so
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: that we could slow the low growth because that once
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: you start that engine, it continues like a flywheel to
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: keep producing. And what we what we found is that,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: you know, we kind of had to put the brakes on.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: And what you do, I don't want to do, is
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: you don't want to put the brakes on so aggressively.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Did you start communicating to the industry that you don't
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: want their business? But it's still like you were talking about,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: it's that push and pull conversation about you know, making
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: little tweaks each month. I know that there were some
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: nervous days speaking internally between myself and our CEO and
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: our CFO about you know, yes, we're still growing at
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: a really rapid rate on the lending side, and the
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: deposits aren't growing quite as quickly, and so you know
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: it's about yes, we're making little tweaks. I know you
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: can't see it today in the production, but everything has
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: a long lag.
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  Speaker 2: Oh for sure. And that shift happened so quickly. I
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: mean the end of twenty twenty, we were faced with
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: record deposits. There was a stimulus one, stimulus two, and
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: then we didn't know three was coming around. But it
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: did just more liquid into the system, which was great
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: for those who needed it. For those who were charged
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: with finding new loans, not so great. No one was borrowing, right,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: and anyone who was boring was paying those loans back,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: which again great, an historically good time to lend. However,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: there just wasn't a whole lot of demand for it, right.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: But you said before, I mean your your title. It's
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: it's in the title. It's not just you're not just
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: a lending officer, you're the revenue officer. So you you
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: do have to take that sort of that broader look,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I would think for clear View, because you've got some
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: pretty significant goals around the digital experience and and enhancing
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: that that that member experience and the ability for your
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: members to be able to do more and more business
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: faster online without without the aid of of of of
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: a human or or of an employee. So the revenue
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: side that becomes of the utmost importance I would think
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: to be able to fuel and fund those technology investments
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: you're making. So maybe talk with us a little bit
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: about that if you could.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah it clearview, clearview. We're a digital first credit union.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: And by saying that, it's not to say that we
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: want to make all of our products and services and
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: only offer those through digital means. What we are also
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: not saying that we don't want to talk to our members.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: But what we are saying is that, if all things
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: are equal, we believe that most members do prefer to
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: do business on their own terms at the time that
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: they prefer, and so I'm a big fan of meeting
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: members where they are not overly complicating processes. Now, this
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: is not to say that we're not we don't value
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: our physical presence. Quite the contrary. We're actually in one
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: of the most aggressive growth plans phases in our physical
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: presence and in the companies more than seventy years worth
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: of history, and so we're investing on both sides. But
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: you know, we talked a little bit about speaking different languages.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I think in lending we're awesome at speaking the language
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: of lending, and members might as well think that we're
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: speaking Latin. And so it's really kind of trying to
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: take those digital processes and make them convenient for members
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: and meeting members where they are we want to. We're
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: always focusing on clear and concise messaging to those members.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: Hey there, former host Jeff kalviner here to let you
• 16:59
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• 17:03
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• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Thanks and now back to the show.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Right, So, with your branching strategy. Because you and I
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: talked a little bit before this. I started my career
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: as a teller, you did as well, right, I still
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: remember payday Fridays with people coming in with with physical
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: paychecks to get cash or to put money in there
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: in their accounts or what have you. Those days are
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: long gone, right, and and good because you know, why
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: line up on Friday after a hard day of work.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: I mean that never made much sense, so that aspect
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: of branching is less necessary now. So where is branching
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: going for Cleary or what's your view, Dustine, of the
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: need for branches, or why are branches still important and
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: why is it worth the investment that clearly is making
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: any branches well.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: I think the research out there suggests that members want
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: you to have a relevant physical presence. It's not necessarily
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: for the same reason that they wanted it in the past.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, like you said, it's not like they're going
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: to be walking in every single Friday or every other
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Friday to castro check. They just want to work with
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: and engage with their local institution, and having a physical
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: presence is one way to show that you're local and
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: in the community. We view our branch network as kind
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: of an extension of our brand awareness initiatives. We want
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: our locations to be convenient, but more than that, we're
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: working on making them visible. We want to communicate who
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: we are, our values and our partnership and our brand
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: promise to the community through that network.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: So is SARAH a community involvement tactic? I guess for
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: your local branch managers. You know before, like my father
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: as a branch manager was kind of a big deal
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: in these smaller towns because you know, seen as sort
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: of a leader in business and so on. Are you
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: seeing a similar sort of or are you taking a
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: similar approach with with clear view in your branches?
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: And I think historically in the credit union industry it's
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: kind of more been the branch network has kind of
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: been had the service center managers that that weren't necessarily
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: those business development people that that that you that you
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: see and you know from the historical banking perspective, and
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I think that's where having the background of both working
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: in a bank and a credit union is really helpful
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: because it allows you to use the best of both
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: best of both sides of the the business model to
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: kind of maximize the opportunities that you have. I think
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: that's something that we're working with and working towards and
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: building a proper sales culture within the organization. But yeah,
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: that's that's definitely the more locations you get, the more
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: you kind of have to be out in the community.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: That's where that's really part of that brand promise.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: And do you see branching and the digital experience like
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: how do they I mean, obviously they co exist, but
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: maybe for different reasons. But do you see sort of
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: an integration of the two happening. Maybe it's not something
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: you have now dustin, but something that down the road
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: is maybe under roadmap to be able to to to
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: provide that for for your membership.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a balanced approach. I mean, you know, you
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: do need a well situated branch network that's that's member focused.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: And you want to create tools that are that are
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: intuitive for them to uh to be able to use
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: and be able to introduce to the communities. I think
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: you know you coming from the branch network, no, uh,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: just and appreciate how many different things you have to know.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: When you're working in the financial center, members come into
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: you to ask you all manners of questions and that's
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: a that's a huge that's a huge undertaking, and so
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: we try to we really do place a focus on
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: developing our products and services that are that are intuitive.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: We want tools, uh that are easy for our members
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: and for also our frontline to use. But you talked
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: a little bit about that integration between the lending site
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: and also the branch network. I think you know, the
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: branch network is a great members will come in with
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: some questions and I think you know, there's there's certain
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: applications where where a branch network is gonna is going
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: to have kind of a limited amount of information that
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: they're going to know, and then you just have to
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: have that seamless, seamless pass off to to the more
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: qualified lending people on the on the back end.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Right right, So you know, up Start we're a technology company.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: We've been using our official intelligence for underrating of lending
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: for many years now. And and AI is it's it's
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: a new topic but kind of misunderstood, right. I mean,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: there's some doomsday things around AI. People are nervous about it.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Is it mean that all jobs are going to be
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: done by robots and so on and so forth, But
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: you know, I kind of take the view and you
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: gave an example with brand like branch people have to
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: know so much about everything about all products and then
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: how you service those products, and then what if there's
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: a problem or a complaint or you know, or or
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: there's there's a compliance issue or something. I mean, there's
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: just so much more to know than what you and
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I need to know years ago as tellers, which basically
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you know, stamp that check and and give cash. It's
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: it's gotten so much more complex. Here's where I think
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: AI can really help those branch folks, because if there's
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: an efficient way that they can take those those questions
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: that are coming in from from the membership and with
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: a prompt be able to come back with an answer
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: that aligns with your your procedures, your probably your your
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: policies and so on and so forth. I mean that's
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: kind of where the magic is, right. So you know,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: do you see with clear view like AI being being
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: a solution to sort of help that down the road
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: with you?
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that's that's the one power of AI
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: is that's able to crunch a bunch of information and
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: come back with relevant answers. And I think that's that's
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: something that we're we're continuing to adapt our a our
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: a roadmap here internally. Uh there, you know there's a
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: as kind of a buzzword out there, right, it's it's
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: got you know, there's a bunch of different applications and
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: trying to figure out exactly what the best applications are.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, we we do use some technology here internally,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: but we're talking very much about how AI tools would
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: be extremely helpful for you know, those question and answers,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: uh for for the frontline staff, you know, because you
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: know it's on really us as executives to help facilitate
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: the learning that our team has to to do and
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: provide them with the tools that are that are ready
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: at their fingertips to be able to answer those members.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, this is it can be an aid
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: as opposed to a replacement. Right. And let's face the
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: critits have been using our PA robotic process automation for years, right,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: just to sort of simplify those ROTE tasks that a
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: lot of the operations folks may have, just just make
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: it a lot easier to execute that on.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: That particular concept you mentioned earlier that sometimes people think
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: that the abouts are going to replace our jobs. And
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: I just tell I tell my team all the time. No,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: it's to make you more efficient. It's to help you
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: focus on the things that are really really relevant to
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: the to to the decision that you're that you're looking
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: at in front of you. I mean, it actually empowers
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: the team members more than replaces their their job duties.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Is it going to replace some things. Yeah, it's going
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: to replace kind of some of those mundane things that
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: that maybe weren't all that much fun. I mean, we
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: all have our little things that we enjoy doing. And yes,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: if you if you replace those tasks that you know,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: we we find comfort in them and we find that
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: we're it's valuable to at least to us to give
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: us a little bit of a re brief for a minute.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: But in reality, it's not. It's not necessarily helping you
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: be more productive or helping you be able to answer
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: those members and be quicker with their inquiries. And so yeah,
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: it's getting that technology there to help facilitate those processes. Also, too,
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: doing the same thing over and over and over again
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: every single day without without making a mistake is kind
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: of difficult. That's the one thing that's awesome about your
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: computer rpas and such. They do the same task and
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: the same order every single time.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, And look, innovation is not a bad
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: thing when we were tellers. Tellers today or tellers yesterday,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: very different jobs, right, but there's still a need for tellers.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: There's still a need for those that front line member
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: and customer experience and support. So yeah, it will be
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: an enhancement at a replacement. I agree with you there.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit then, for clearview about twenty
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: twenty five. So you're in the middle of business plane.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I would think right now, earlier i'd said what twelve
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: months ago looked like where the cleary was still an
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: issue and we thought we'd see a whole bunch of
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: rate reductions which never really came to pass. I mean,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: without getting too deep into or revealing sort of your
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: secret sauce. For twenty five, what's clearview thinking in terms
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: of where lending growth is going to go or deposit growth,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: or what s your focus areas I guess as we
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: look out to the next twelve to eighteen months.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know, Cecil's really throwing a monkey
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: wrench into all of our all of our lives on
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: the lending side. I think it's really you have to
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: be balanced in your approach. You can no longer say
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: I want to grow on this part of my portfolio,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: that part of my portfolio, with that actually understanding what
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: that does to the overall mix, that what kind of
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: an effect that has on your on your revenue streams.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: So I think for us, twenty twenty five is going
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: to be another year of balance. We've had an extremely
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: successful twenty twenty four, but it hasn't looked quite the
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: same as it did in past years. I mean, we
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: didn't have massive loan growth in twenty twenty four, but
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: we were able to manage our margins this year and
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: have remained profitable. And so we want to make sure
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: that we're putting loans on that that keep pace with
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: the market. We understand that there is you know, we're
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: going to come back into this rapidly reducing interest rate environment,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: and you know there's always that question about well, what's
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: your runoff going to be on the back end, Really
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: none of us know you really still you're really making
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: project actions. What I would assume is that the run
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: down is not necessarily going to be as quick as
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: the run up, but sometimes it might be it might
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: be quicker. You never quite know. I do know that
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: the second that those the prime rate changes, we have
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: a large percentage of a portfolio that instantly reprices, and
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: so it's really just maximizing the internal rate of return
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: by making sure that we're paying appropriate deposit rates. Sometimes
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: you can't just go down the same same rate on
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: the deposit side as you do on the on the
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: lending side, so you're going to see some crunching of
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: the margins I think in twenty twenty five. But it's
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: a balancing act putting loans on that optimize that risk
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: and return calculus. Make sure that you're getting the you know,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: you're getting loans on at a you know that are
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: good loans at a good rate, and that are going
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: to stay on the books and not necessarily just reprice
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: every every thirty to sixty days.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. So I live in California where it's really
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: really hard now as the first time home buyer to
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: break in right, and it's especially hard now when you've
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: got thirty year mortgages over six percent and so on
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Western Pennsylvania. What's what's what's the prospect there for first
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: time home buyer and how does Clearview sort of match
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: or meet that that need that that's out there for
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: those first time home buyers.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I think the you know, historically Western PA has
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: been a little bit maybe behind, not quite as valatile
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: as some of the other as some of the others,
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: certainly California, UH, definitely much more volatile. But I think
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: over the last few years you've kind of seen home
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: values rise pretty substantially here, and so you still do
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: have an affordability issue, I think, regardless of where you're
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: at in the country. And I think, you know, it's
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: a it's about trying to work with your partners to
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: develop those first time home buyer kind of programs. Some
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: of it's some of its education of the members. I
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: think you talk to a lot of realtors and they
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: you know, a lot of mortgage uh mortgage executives, and
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: they talk about, you know, you marry the property, but
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: you date the rate. I think, you know, we got
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: to be a little bit careful coaching people to uh
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: to always refinance as a you know, as a way
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: of freeing up additional cash flow. But you know, I
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: think if you're offering good products with a good value
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: for your membership, and and you're pricing them appropriately, you'll
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: be able to keep those on the books. But you know,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: affordability is going to be a big issue kind of
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: across the country. I think you you know, when you're
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: seeing new home builds go, you know, for a lot
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: more than what I paid for my first house. I know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: you know, three to four times what I paid for
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: my first house. I look at you know, my kids
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: nowadays and think that, yeah, this is going to be
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: a very different world for them than it was for.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Me, right right, it's it's a new normal around rates though,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: because you said earlier in our conversation, how you know
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: a three or four percent thirty became the norm. I
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: want to say, the first mortgage I got was probably
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: like eight and a half I think as a rate,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I was pretty happy with that, right, But that was
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: that was at the time, because you know, six months
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: before was probably at nine. So it all becomes relative,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: right it does. Yeah, all right, Dustin? So uh now,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: bold predictions. So I need bold prediction for the business
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: and a bold prediction for Dustin. So you know, what
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: does the next twelve months look like for business? It
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: could be clear of you. It could be the larger economy.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: And then what's what's what's a bold prediction for Dustin?
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: H If we get on October of twenty twenty five,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: what does that look like?
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, So let's hope that I end twenty twenty
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: five that I was as good at predicting the rate
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: forecasting rates in twenty twenty five as I was in
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. I actually got lucky. I think we
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: only planned for two rate cuts this year, and it's
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: actually looking looking like it's going to be closer from
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: a from an interest expense.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Well, see, you just are lucky. You gave it away, right,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: This was supposed to be that.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, protections projections is just a guess if you if
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: you put if you say that you're any better than that.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: I think that's uh, that's a little bit of humorous
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: talking there.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Sure there's a there's a there's a place in Vegas
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: for you, right there is? Yeah, yeah, so money for real,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: right right on?
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: So now, bold prediction for Dustin. Bold prediction for Dustin.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: You know, it's it's to optimize the Holy Trinity of compromise.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: And we talk a little bit about this is the
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: you know, the three things that most institutions are looking
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: for as profitability, member engagement, and growth. It's it's it's
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: optimizing those and finding a you know, a risk smart
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: environment for your for your team to be able to
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: really work with their members, but also not necessarily give
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: away the farm for the year. And that's you know,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: if we if we finish twenty twenty five as profitably
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: as we finish twenty twenty four, I will be extremely excited.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Well excellent, Well, thank you so much, Dustin, and let's
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: hope for that profitability continues in twenty twenty four and
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: twenty four five and beyond. Thank you again for your
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: time today and look forward to talking to you again soon.
• 31:52
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