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🎧 UC Berkeley is turning their athletes into content creators · Open Tabs

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, guys.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Happy OpenTabs.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Happy Thursday.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: And welcome to OpenTabs,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: our twice-weekly conversation where we talk about all the stories taking up space
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: and our tabs, our feeds, and our brains.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Melissa.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Megan.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, yay, Thursday.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Almost there.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a couple of fun stories to chat through.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: As always, just going to jump straight into it.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the first one, this is very interesting.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: UC Berkeley,
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: the college,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: has opened up a Twitch studio on campus to give student athletes a place
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: to build their personal brands and audiences.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So they're encouraging their student athletes to become content creators.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so this Twitch studio is going to offer 10 hours of weekly programming,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: and they'll be following these athletes on their workouts.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: They'll be doing teammate challenges.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll be doing gaming,
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: cooking,
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: contests,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: as well as campus tours,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: because really it's all about marketing UC Berkeley to potential students.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I thought this was very interesting.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: personal brands are everything now,
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: especially if you want to be in the public sphere professionally.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we've seen universities offer content creation classes here and there.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's so interesting that they went for it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Twitch, of all places, they're leaning into live streaming.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's interesting.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys have thoughts?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious to Melissa's thoughts since she's closer to, literally closer to the Berkeley scene.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, totally.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so, you know what's interesting?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: We sort of talked about this two days ago.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was sort of just having an initial reaction because obviously these guys know,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: but my husband went to Cal and so did his parents.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: We live in the Bay Area, so we go to Berkeley pretty often.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: We're really part of the fandom.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things we always joke about is just how hard it is to be a Cal fan
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: because the football team in particular just doesn't it just can't seem to get like
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: a winning streak, even though there's it has such like a deep alumni base.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like people really want to be there and like want to show up.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it just and they've had some big stars that come through.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oftentimes they get recruited.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like Jared Goff is like a great example.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he's in the NFL now.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's like, and then they changed their like, what is it?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like the group that they play against.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're now in like a- Oh, they're like conference.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: Conference.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're in a different conference,
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: which has also been sort of an adjustment as well because a lot of the schools
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: that they play now, like Duke is one of them, like they're East Coast.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: So- Like the times for the games can be really off.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of the games have also been on the flip side really late,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: which for us,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: we have like little kids and like for a game to start at 730 at night is sort
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: of hard.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's like really great when there's like a late afternoon game.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so all of which to say is like living in the house with a Cal alum
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: who is always like stressing About the fandom.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think that this move is really interesting because it's kind of like at least
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: a move to try to like still make it attractive for student athletes to want to be on
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: that team.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so and this like What I think is really interesting, too,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: we've talked about this in a completely different context with young athletes,
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: kids who are 8 to 10 years old building up their social media fandoms now,
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: and how that can just become leverage.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's leverage for getting people to show up.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's leverage for sponsorship, for money-making, and all these things.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: The other day, even, I met with a news anchor.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Five years ago, I had met with her to try to build up her social presence.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: There's this internal conflict when you're a journalist to try
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: to build up your social media when you work for an organization.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: She said one of the biggest regrets was not actually double-downing.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because now when you want to sell a book,
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: you want to move networks, you want to do all these things, it's leverage.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that this is a really,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: it's like a gold feather kind of thing that Cal is offering
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  SPEAKER_03: to attract student athletes.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my thought on it.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's smart.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know Twitch as well or as in-depth.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually curious what other universities might be doing too.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: What do you guys think?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: What I think is interesting about this is I'm not surprised this is happening,
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: but like we've been talking a lot about this now that NIL deals are allowed
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: in college, like how are athletes and student athletes going to monetize this?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm interested in is I feel like on the one hand,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: we're taking social media more seriously as a career,
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: but then to suggest that just because someone is a student athlete,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: they are now going to be a social media creator.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's a big jump, I think.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's kind of putting a lot of pressure on these athletes rather
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: than kind of being an opportunity.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: To me,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also seeing this be also just like adding to the job description of in addition
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: to being a student, being an athlete.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Now you also must record and share this with everybody else
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: or you're not maximizing your fullest potential.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's something that I find interesting.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I've been thinking about this coming out of the Nathan Fielder documentary.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: You can see everything.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: I am dying to see it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Have you guys seen it tomorrow?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: I saw it on Saturday and I walked away from that being like, this is giving vlog.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's giving Shane Dawson like when he used to do his explorations with people.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a vlog.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's a documentary.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: But to that point of the journalist being part of it versus not part of it,
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: he's not a journalist.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's an entertainer and a comedian.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: So he is not having that journalistic distance in the movie documentary.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, essentially, I'm like, this is a YouTube vlog.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: This reminds me of when I would watch Shane Dawson and Jeffree Star,
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: and it was unpacking what people think about you and your image.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that there's going to be kind of a new class
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: of person like Nathan Fielder who is a vlogger,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: but they are not the subject of their vlogs.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: They find someone, follow them, and it's more of like a documentary vlog style thing.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: so I think that's more what I would recommend these universities do is like partner
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: People who want to be creators with athletes
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: and figure out what they could build there versus just handing
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: the athletes streaming equipment and being like, okay, now go live, you know?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Similar to like what the NFL does with HBO and Hard Knocks where they bring
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: in like documentarians to follow the teams while they, you know, do their own thing.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that makes so much sense.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, let the athletes just like focus on the game.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's enough pressure enough to be like a student athlete.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: That is also like,
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: it's one thing to be like a student athlete and another to be like on a, like,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I also think that to your point, Megan, too,
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: like there's just all these different sort of hybrid kind of like rules
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: that are like,
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: I just think this is the era of the hybrid where people are like less
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: about like identifying as like one and this is my career and this is who I am
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: and more like I'm a, you know, multifaceted person.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: I have different skill sets and like I think there is going to be some people
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: that will sort of tick all the boxes.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Again, if I look over to Savannah Bananas, that's what Jackson Olsen does, right?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: He might not be the best athlete,
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: but he's certainly the best social media influencer in that group.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he has sort of bubbled to the top, brought him to Dancing with the Stars, right?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: It shows that...
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Not being the best athlete.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: In that scenario,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: in that sandbox, it's like the best athlete isn't the one getting the best deals.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's the best content creator who can storytell it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: think that
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: as we sort of go into this world, I do think it is sort of interesting.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: It feels like
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: The rules of all of this are really up in the air and what's changing
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: and what does success look like and how do people want to be spending their time
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: and all that.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: I will say in sports, there is a longstanding tradition of convergence with media.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Media and sports go hand in hand.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: So even if you follow the trajectory of a professional athlete, What do you do?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, then you're Tom Brady and you are now a correspondent, right?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you kind of like go, it goes together.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that like,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: starting to train,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: like there's, I think that this is all going to be like, you have athletic ability.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that part of developing you as you progress
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: on your professional career Media and social media and thinking 10 steps ahead
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: of planning it all out of the skill set that you develop is just going
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: to start earlier.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And people are thinking of that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Let me just say,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: with my student athlete,
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: as he goes into high school and college,
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to be like, hey, maybe not social media, but how do you present yourself?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Can you speak
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: With confidence, can you be concise in front of an audience?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: While he does guitar lessons,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: not necessarily because he loves the guitar,
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: but because I want him to just get used to singing and performing and being able
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: to express himself.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because I do think a lot of athletes,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: sometimes it's like, I'm just going to be on the field and this is my thing.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I think thinking about how to present oneself just in general is healthy.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, for anybody.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we're talking in the context of athletics right now, but I don't know.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think two things.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: When I went to college,
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the University of Kentucky, which was a huge basketball school.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, if you made the team, you were on a fast track to the NBA.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: They usually got drafted within a year.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of turnover,
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: but it was also at a time when college athletes were not allowed to do endorsements
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: because that would then make them professionals and then knowledgeable for
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: the draft.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: But these basketball players were They were babied and insulated by the university.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: They lived in their own dorms.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: A boy in my class who I was kind of acquaintances with was the team manager.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: They lived in special apartments where everything was higher.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: The ceilings were higher.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: The door frames were higher.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was built for people who were six, five, and up.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: You never saw them on campus because they were taking, like, bullshit classes, probably online.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: They had special tutors.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: They had media training.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they were insulated in a little bubble by the school,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: so all they had to focus on was basketball and winning championships.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't have to worry about classes, nothing.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: some of the less successful teams had to, like,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: had club requirements,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: so they would, like, join a club for, like, a week and then quit.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the basketball players were So
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I see,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: like, it's interesting you said Berkeley's team has historically struggled.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know if I see a college that's team is dominating,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: forcing their athletes To pivot a fraction of their attention away from
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: the game itself to creating content.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's so smart.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: It makes me think of,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think Elle Fanning has talked about this,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: how she has lost out on roles because she didn't have And that is a thing now
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: when studios and directors are casting movies and TV shows.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I wonder if like Berkeley's like, okay, we haven't been able to make a world class program.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: But to give you guys a leg up in the draft, maybe we build your personal fandoms.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that can make you more attractive to NFL teams of like, okay,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: maybe this guy isn't the best running back,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: but he has 50,000 Instagram followers who are obsessed with him and buy his merch
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: and will then pivot over to our team and buy our merch.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if that's part of their thinking at all.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: I also think that this will be a bigger industry for female athletes than it will be
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: for male athletes.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I could see this being,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: I could totally see that we've been talking about football and basketball,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: but there's a really great female team at Berkeley and they I feel like if you're in
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: a woman's sport, your odds of being a pro and then being rich are much lower.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like they might take more interest in a program like this
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: while they have access to it in college.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Melissa, I think you're muted.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes tech issues onSubstack
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Live, it pops up when you least expect it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: But that, wait, okay,
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: so female athletes,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: and you think the universities would be propping up these female athletes,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: or do you think it's in their best interest to do it themselves?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's in their best interest to do it themselves and I think
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: that they will actually probably be more interested in attending universities
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: that have programs like this because this is such a lucrative field
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: for female athletes of like the NIL deals and having a social media presence
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: whereas actual like
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: the actual leagues don't pay female athletes what they pay female athletes.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like Paige I feel like I might be mispronouncing her name,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: but she played for UConn, I want to say, on the Wednesday, now she's in the WNBA.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like she did a really good job of marketing for herself when she was still
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: in college, and I would see her in commercials all the time.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think what I was going to say, you guys, sorry, you can hear me now, right?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's some weird component where this like goes to my phone and it's like connect
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: to your audio on your laptop.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I, I don't know.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: I just, I constantly mess it up.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, the point of what I was going to say is that like,
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just wonder, um,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: you guys are closer to this than me,
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: but like, is Twitch, like what, like why Twitch, you know?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and it's like, is it, does it have to do with the live component viewing of sports?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like that there actually has become more of like,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: um, Sort of, like, almost going back to that more, like, wanting to see things live.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: I also wonder if, like,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Twitch is making some sort of larger play, like,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: from the Twitch angle, you know, to compete against YouTube and streaming, etc.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And with that in mind, like,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: as you guys just said,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: because you kind of took the words out of it,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: like, I was sort of thinking that as well, like, regarding female athletes.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's such a moment right now.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: For female athletics,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if Twitch is building up something there,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: like live viewing, live sports, live channel viewing.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have no idea.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's just interesting to me, why not TikTok?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Why not YouTube?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Why not Instagram?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like, Megan, I'm interested to hear what you think, too.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like Twitch audiences are more programmed to view things live.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like people do, like, TikTok,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Instagram,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: YouTube lives, but Twitch audience, like, that's all you can do on Twitch.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So audiences, yeah, are just, like, more used to that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Also think, like, I don't know.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't really seen the NFL engage at all with Twitch,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: but I know Twitch had a big presence during the World Cup.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they brought on iShowSpeed,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: who is like one of, if not the biggest Twitch streamer and also a huge soccer fan.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they had him perform during the World Cup halftime show.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: He got invited.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: He was in box seats at all the games and he had live streamed all of them.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like a huge Twitch push for that.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I wonder if that was inspo.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was going
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: to say,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if it has anything to do with like focusing on sports
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: that have not ideal viewing times.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: So like outside of prime time.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it's kind of like,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: how do we get people to watch and tune in and become fans of the sports
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: that don't get the best time slot?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: That actually makes so much sense to me in my head,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: but I don't know if that's part of the strategy.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: But World Cup definitely falls into that category.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder, March Madness, same thing.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not great.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you kind of have to be ready to watch at any time.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: And to your point, Emma, the people who use Twitch are used to that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's what they're conditioned for.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe it's about trying to get them engaged.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's also a big push right now of just a land grab happening around Gen Z and sports content.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And don't forget,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Twitch is owned by Amazon,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: who has a They've been trying to get more football games on their platform for a
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: while.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is probably part of that larger strategy.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: There's also a pretty healthy behavior of younger people watching Twitch
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: and watching Twitch streamers.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of really popular Twitch streamers that people just watch them
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Go about their lives, go shopping, eat food.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I only ever hear about it when there's interpersonal drama among said Twitch streamers.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm, like, exposed to the world again.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I can't believe people, like, watch this.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: But there's, like...
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: What do you call it?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Interpersonal drama.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's the best kind.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: But like there's like Wendy and Eve who are twins who live stream a lot.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: There's Kai Sinat.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Alabama Barker is on Twitch all the time.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of this category of what I call hangout content
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: where it's like you don't want to actually like be enthralled.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like Mr.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Beast is very much like I'm going to do this thing and you're going
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: to watch like 10 minutes of content.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas Twitch streamers are more like you put it on, you hang out with them.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: My thing with that is I don't know how much of that is
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: because young people have time and are in their houses and just want somebody
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: to hang out with.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if once they grow up, they'll grow out of that behavior.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's too soon to tell, I think, for this era of Twitch streaming.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like Twitch is more like integrated in people's day-to-day,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: like how they're living their day-to-day lives,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: whereas like Instagram and TikTok,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: the other social platforms, it's kind of like, oh, I'm doing my TikTok.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's my like scroll time that I allot in my day where to Megan's point,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: people like are on Twitch or watching Twitch streams all day
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: while they do other things.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I see so many videos.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a Twitch channel that is like where I
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: think there's, like,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: lo-fi music in the background and,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: like, there's some, like, people are chatting back and forth in the chat.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: But, like,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: it's really just people who are, like,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: want to feel like they're hanging out while they're working alone by themselves
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: at home.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: Very interesting.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: That would be an interesting deep dive, actually.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that's, like,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: part of the exploration of the loneliness epidemic,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: too, of just, like, having community or, like, having someone around you.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's just interesting, you know?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: I get that.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: Mine used to be, when I lived alone, it was the housewives, you know?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: I told my thing, like, in my 20s.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I avoided...
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Watching one of my favorite shows that I love,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Law & Order, like I would never watch Law & Order when I'm- Oh yeah, you can't.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't watch it either.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you live in New York City, it's like, that's like a horror show.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: I lived in a studio apartment that was on like many floors up in a doorman building.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I would still walk in and it was like 500 square feet.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was like so small.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the first thing that I did, what do you guys think?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Walk into the bathroom and look behind the shower curtain.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Every time I walked in because I was like, someone is going to kill me.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm the same guy.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot I used to do that when I lived alone in a studio apartment.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: That was like a repressed memory.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, yeah, that's what I did too.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be working from home by myself and I live in a small apartment and it's
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: a pre-war building so like it's got all the charm but like you know they're creeks
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: or like I'll hear like a creek and I'm like somebody's in the apartment
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm like that's not possible because they'd have to walk by me in order
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: to get there.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like I have to check anyway.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well I know.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's terrifying.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to, like, yeah.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Feeling safe is, like,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: something that I feel like until you,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: like, question it, you're, like, you just take it for such granted.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it's, like, it can affect so much.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, keep a baseball bat around.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: I should buy one.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just have my mace that I don't bring because if you,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: like, go to clubs, they make you throw it out.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, what's the point then?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's expensive.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what's the point?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm out late at night, I want my mace, but I'm not allowed to bring my mace in with me.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not going to go.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not crazy.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: I promise I'm not going to go in there and just start spraying people.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: But whatever.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hard pivot to Legos in our last few minutes.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: From Mace to Legos.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: From Mace to Legos.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's probably an active thread somewhere.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to take the brain space to try to figure it out.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: But The Atlantic just released this really interesting article about what Lego lost
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: as it grew up.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like if you spend...
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime online,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: you can tell in the past few years that LEGO has made a concerted push
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: towards adults and LEGO's not just for kids.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think the campaign is called Adults Welcome.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they check, they have an entire adult section on their website.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they're really pushing for people like tapping into fandoms like Star Wars,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Lord of the Rings, even just Flowers, as we know Megan's a fan of.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And basically for adults to play the pieces.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're not to be played with, they're to be built and then displayed throughout your home.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: In the article, they talk about how it's not just Lego.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is an industry-wide trend.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've talked about American Girl Doll and how they're trying
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: to attack millennial nostalgia for their life.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see that they have novels?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're releasing novels for their OG dolls.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they also...
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'll fact check myself,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: are doing a Disney Descendants-esque where,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: like, they created a doll who is connected to Samantha.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, their new doll is connected to Samantha in some way.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if she's the mother, but yeah, it's interesting.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: But really crazy stat from the article that households without children now account
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: for 55% of toy sales.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: These toy companies are pushing for adults for good reason because adults
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: without children and with children are buying their sets.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: But the article talks about what is lost when these toys that were originally meant
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: to be played with now just become I thought it would be interesting because, Megan,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know you are a fan of Legos,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: and Melissa, you have a child who is a fan of Legos, so let's chat about it.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Megan, you're into the florals, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: The botanical collection, yes.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's very pretty.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's my favorite.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: I, in general,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: thought this article was a bit of a Doomer perspective,
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: you know, because you got to have a take in order to write about this.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I kind of reject the idea that, like,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: things are just for kids and they shouldn't be,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: like, for other people, especially something like play and creativity.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, creativity is not just for children.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's kind of a weird argument.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: I love
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: this take.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I also think that this is just representative of kind of that as adults
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: without children have more disposable income to spend,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: they become a more attractive audience for different types of industries
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: that maybe hadn't considered them before.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: And Play-Doh is actually starting to copy the Lego thing.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: They have Play-Doh botanicals where you can like make clay flowers.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: See, I'm not as into that because that is,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: taking it a step further where with the Legos, yes,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: they're meant to be displayed,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: but you could take them apart and make something else if you really wanted to.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: No one at Lego is saying, you must display this.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're just saying, hey,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: we're going to let you create something that you at the end will also want
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: to display in your home because you're
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: an adult person who's probably not just like You're not going to make cars
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: and go vroom, vroom,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: vroom around your house and do all the little scenarios thing,
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: but you still want to play with Legos.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that this,
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: I would have written this article from the opposite perspective of how Lego found
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: a brand new audience and super serves them,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: which is what every brand is always trying to do, find a new audience.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then in terms of the creativity being lost, I think the opposite is happening.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've been following the trend of alt builds where you can buy a Lego set meant
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: for one thing, like the cat, for instance, the orange cat.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: People are buying that and then they make an alt build and they turned it into
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: a scene from the Star Wars movie.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is something that's happening more and more where they're kind
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: of buying one set,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: but then being like,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: but then you can also take this and make it into something else.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of the people who are doing this grew up playing with Legos.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I grew up playing with Legos.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's, I think, why it has that appeal for me.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's not something that a lot of people I think are getting into as adults.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, A revisit of a hobby.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so I feel like this is just so smart from Legos because they have Duplo.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Then they have the set you get older and older and older.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just extending their consumer life cycle in a really, really smart way.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: So my biggest gripe with it is the plastic.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a lot of plastic.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think that I would frame it the way the article framed it as kind
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: of like something is being lost and more
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: of just Lego is extending their literal shelf life with consumers by leaning
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: into adult audiences.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's like even anecdotally,
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: like I have a friend whose husband is super into like making these extensive things.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like they've done a really good job of
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: like You know, capitalizing on other fandoms.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, okay, this is the Star Wars fandom.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Disney fandom.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: This is the like whatever fandom.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: like even the flowers, like you can argue it's like, you know, style, home decor.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's also, I mean, they're very pretty.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if anything,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: like I can see them leaning even harder into that and doing more with that.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can see like Various forms of sculpture.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it can become artwork on the wall.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's all different things.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: They have artwork.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can do like Van Gogh, the like Starry Night, or no, the flowers.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're there.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: in fact,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: I actually went to a house here not that long ago for like a sign-up party thing.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it was a super fancy house that's like on the lagoon here.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: And they had an entire room dedicated to like Lego things.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was wild.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a huge workbench of just like a million blocks or whatever.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think to your point, we talked about this before, but I haven't used it.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of people that I know talk about the Lego app where you can like take
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: a picture of a bunch of random blocks and it will give you like something
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: to make out of randomness.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's like my biggest So it's like kind of like what you're saying, Megan,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: like with the plastic,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: but more like I just find them to be so undone, even with my kids.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like my kids make it and then it's like, great, okay, now I have to buy another one.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Or like it just feels so wasteful,
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: like the actual use of the toy and like to your – It does feel like
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: a different lifestyle, life stages.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: There's different purposes for it.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so, like, again, making it like a display in a home is a really good idea.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: But it just feels like such a waste of money sometimes.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it gives me pause when I'm going to buy stuff for people.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm like, am I just contributing more to your junk pile sometimes with Lego?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't take away from it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: It just feels like versus, let's say, Magna Tiles.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: I am such a Magna Tile fan.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's also this other type of set that's an evolution called Picasso
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: that we use a lot.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: And Picasso actually helps you build tracks.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: That are magnetized that you have like a little car that the car can drive on.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then they have a whole other line that's like a ball
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: that goes through like tubes.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's definitely like level up development wise,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: but it actually like we mix it up with magnet tiles and it allows for my three,
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: six and eight year old to all have different.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's just so brilliant.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're all having different building experiences, but using the same sort of set of toys.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, You build it, it comes down, and you redo it.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: Lego is incredibly prohibitive with that.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: If you give a kid a giant pile of random Lego, it's very hard to come up with something.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: I find even as an adult, I think that that should be an adult challenge.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: Make something creative with this random pile of blocks.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Think about how hard that is.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you make a wall.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: To be like chopped, but with Legos.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Chopped with Legos with these random ingredients.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Make something.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: I honestly think Lego, that is such a good idea if you are listening to this.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, kind of like how the Rubik's Cube has like a whole movement now
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: because people like speed whatever.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Help us, Lego, with the Legos that you've already put out in the world.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: Help us.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: Help us use them and find relevance with them for when the life cycle of
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: the Legos is no longer the thing that they originally made.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's what they should solve for.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Good idea.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you said they kind of have that,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I guess, on their app, but I haven't seen them market that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're more focused on trying
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: to buy more expensive Legos to the people
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: that Megan is talking about.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say I had a gut reaction when I first I was like, oh, play, whatever.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you're right.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Play should be something that adults foster 100%.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, that's
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm sure,
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: you know, again, I feel like I'm confronted with that regularly because I have kids.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh, stop, play, like, whatever.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sort of forced to do that.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it's such a good thing.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know it's good.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, and it feels like doing something with your hands.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like adults kind of approach it.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like probably like puzzles, but even more tactile and like tangible.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know this would be contributing to more Lego junk in the world,
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: but I feel like they should definitely tap into the, like, romanticy fandom.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like that makes so much sense.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's, like,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: top of mind because this week I think they announced two of the actors for
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: the fourth-wing TV show
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: that they're doing, and there was a lot of reaction to that.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, they should have a fourth-wing or ACOTAR Lego set.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that makes sense.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So much fun.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, but also I weirdly was like,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: I consume a lot of like fan art around my romantic novels that I read
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: and I like wouldn't mind if they were AI.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, okay, but like I like the fan art and so like just make the characters AI.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like I actually think it would be sort of interesting if they did both
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: to see how it like Like, I, like, literally am, like, make it anime.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: I just also want to say, too, this is different but related.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: That last night, you know, I was at a Mahjong event.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just having a conversation with my friend whose sister is an interior designer.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: And she just got back from this, like,
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: huge interior design, like,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: showcase, like, conference that was down at, I think it's, like, in the Carolinas.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's, like, a big thing.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the biggest takeaways that she got was just how living rooms are changing
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: because of Mahjong tables and how people are putting permanent game tables
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: into their...
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a thing that an interior designer has to work into a space now.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's beyond...
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, Mahjong is driving it, but I think it's more than that.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's just this return of play.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because, like,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: the first thing people talk about, well,
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: first of all,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: within Mahjong,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: specifically similar to Lego, like, there's just this, like, big movement of it.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: But, like, it goes across generations.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: They're really focused on, like, mini Mahjong, mini Majer for kids to play.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: There's cards that are, like, where you can actually play with a regular set.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's, like, kid version.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: So being able to, like, make the line.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: But I just am, like, It's just really interesting to see such a push for this.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's like in-person games, IRL, that are not digital at all.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like reshaping the fun of that song.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: They tried to sell us NFTs, guys, and look where we're at.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: That made me think of Hallie Kate.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: A very big New York City influencer famously has a pool table instead of
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: a dining room table because she wants to play with her friends.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like part of her hosting.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, 1 o'clock, 10 a.m. for you West Coasters.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Such a fun conversation.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys so, so much.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll be back next week.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yay.