Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Lose Fat vs. Burn Fat (Randle Cycle, Low-Carb, and Fasted Training) | Ep 327

Transcript

Lose Fat vs. Burn Fat (Randle Cycle, Low-Carb, and Fasted Training) | Ep 327 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: If you've ever been confused about why you can burn fat during a workout but not actually lose body fat, or why low-carb diets promise to keep you fat-adapted in fat-burning mode, yet sometimes fail to deliver results, this episode is for you.
• 0:16
  Philip Pape: Today, we're uncovering the difference between fat oxidation and actual net fat loss that almost everyone misunderstands.
• 0:25
  Philip Pape: You'll learn how the Randall Cycle affects your metabolism, why fasted cardio might not be the magic bullet you think it is, and what really determines whether you lose fat, regardless of what fuel your body is burning in the moment.
• 0:38
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency.
• 0:55
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, certified nutrition coach, and today we're looking at one of the most misunderstood concepts in fitness, and that is the difference between fat burning, or the technical term oxidation, and fat loss, which is literally losing fat from your body generally by losing weight and holding on to muscle.
• 1:16
  Philip Pape: This confusion is often led to questions that come up on a daily basis, especially when I write or do an episode about carbs or low-carb diets, where people say, well, I'm fat-adapted or I burn more fat because I'm low-carb, and it's a complete misunderstanding of what's actually going on, and so people chase down ineffective diets, potentially restrictive diets that are miserable.
• 1:39
  Philip Pape: They waste their workouts by not training the right way and then they get frustrated.
• 1:44
  Philip Pape: They can't figure out why they're not seeing results despite doing the things you're supposed to do.
• 1:48
  Philip Pape: To quote unquote burn fat.
• 1:50
  Philip Pape: The reality is that fat burning and fat loss are two completely different physiological processes.
• 1:57
  Philip Pape: It's unfortunate that they sound very similar, but if we can understand the distinction, it will help you improve your body composition because you'll be informed on whether you're putting your energy in the right place.
• 2:09
  Philip Pape: So by the end of the episode, my goal is to help understand why things like low-carb diets, fasted cardio, other popular quote-unquote fat-burning strategies might not be working as promised.
• 2:21
  Philip Pape: They might have some misdirection in there, and what you should focus on instead if you really want the results.
• 2:27
  Philip Pape: Before we dive in, I do have a quick favor to ask If you enjoy today's episode.
• 2:31
  Philip Pape: Take a moment to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts.
• 2:35
  Philip Pape: Each month, I'm randomly selecting one reviewer and they're going to receive a free protein supplement of their choice.
• 2:43
  Philip Pape: This is my way of saying thank you for supporting the show, and the reviews help other people discover this show, why people like it and how it might help them to escape the sea of confusion, of misinformation that's out there.
• 2:57
  Philip Pape: So again, go to Apple Podcasts, submit a five-star review, do it on your iPhone or Apple device, and if you don't have that device or don't use an Apple podcast, feel free to throw in a rating on Spotify, or just shoot me a message and say, hey, show's great, thanks for doing it, and that'll make my day All right.
• 3:14
  Philip Pape: So let's get into the topic and start by defining what we're talking about.
• 3:18
  Philip Pape: The confusion between fat oxidation and fat loss is, honestly, at the heart.
• 3:25
  Philip Pape: It is at the root of so many popular strategies today that are misguided, oftentimes because of this very thing.
• 3:33
  Philip Pape: So what is the difference?
• 3:34
  Philip Pape: Fat oxidation when we say fat burning, right, that is a metabolic process where your body breaks down fat molecules to produce energy, and that's what typically mean when they talk about burning fat during exercise or following a diet or in any situation, fasted training, etc.
• 3:51
  Philip Pape: It's essentially the use of fat as fuel, which is great.
• 3:55
  Philip Pape: We want to do that.
• 3:56
  Philip Pape: We want to use our fat, especially if you're trying to lose it, which leads me to fat loss.
• 4:01
  Philip Pape: See, fat loss actually is the reduction of stored body fat over time, and this is what most of us are actually trying to achieve.
• 4:08
  Philip Pape: When we say we want to lose fat, it's not that we want to just burn fat in a vacuum.
• 4:12
  Philip Pape: We want to lose the net fat stored on our body and we want to add more muscle.
• 4:17
  Philip Pape: We want to lose fat right.
• 4:18
  Philip Pape: We want to look better, leaner, more fit, we want to be stronger, more healthy, more athletic all of the things.
• 4:26
  Philip Pape: So I think what most people miss is that these two processes burning fat for fuel in the moment versus reducing stored body fat over time don't always go hand in hand.
• 4:35
  Philip Pape: In fact, oftentimes they don't go hand in hand.
• 4:38
  Philip Pape: They're different, independent things going on.
• 4:40
  Philip Pape: You can oxidize plenty of fat during your workouts.
• 4:44
  Philip Pape: Going on, you can oxidize plenty of fat during your workouts, but not lose body fat from your body.
• 4:48
  Philip Pape: Conversely, you can be primarily burning carbohydrates during exercise, yet still lose significant amounts of body fat over time, and so this disconnect leads to confusion, especially around low carb diets, keto carnivore, fasted training all sorts of strategies you know, fat burning workouts that promise to maximize fat burning.
• 5:07
  Philip Pape: So that's why I'm creating this episode.
• 5:09
  Philip Pape: Now let's take a look at the physiology first.
• 5:11
  Philip Pape: I think that's a great place to start and there's something called the Randall cycle.
• 5:15
  Philip Pape: Now I heard about this a long time ago.
• 5:17
  Philip Pape: I kind of forgot about it, specifically by name, until a YouTube commenter mentioned it and they said hey, if this is all true, if low carb diets might not be beneficial for a lot of people, um, why, what about the cycle?
• 5:30
  Philip Pape: Why, why?
• 5:31
  Philip Pape: Why isn't that the reason low carb diets would be so beneficial?
• 5:35
  Philip Pape: So the Randall cycle it's also known as the glucose fatty acid cycle.
• 5:39
  Philip Pape: It was first described by Philip Randall in the sixties 1963.
• 5:44
  Philip Pape: And it describes the relationship between carbohydrate and fat metabolism in our bodies.
• 5:49
  Philip Pape: So essentially it explains that when your body has both glucose and fatty acids available right, glucose from carbs, fatty acids from fats available as fuel they compete with each other.
• 6:01
  Philip Pape: So when glucose levels are high, your body's going to preferentially burn glucose and suppress fat oxidation right, so it's burning glucose because it's there instead of fat.
• 6:11
  Philip Pape: When glucose levels are low, your body's going to shift to burning more fat.
• 6:15
  Philip Pape: Now, before I move on, notice what this means.
• 6:17
  Philip Pape: This means when someone says glucose is the body's preferred energy source.
• 6:20
  Philip Pape: That is a true statement, meaning it will burn that if it's available first, then it will burn fat.
• 6:26
  Philip Pape: But of course, if you deprive yourself of carbohydrates, it has no choice but to burn fat.
• 6:30
  Philip Pape: So let's continue.
• 6:31
  Philip Pape: So this is kind of a reciprocal in a way, but it is a little bit asymmetric.
• 6:36
  Philip Pape: Your body's designed to use whatever fuel's most readily available, but it's going to go for glucose first if it's available.
• 6:41
  Philip Pape: That's why it's slightly asymmetric.
• 6:43
  Philip Pape: But it's going to preserve whatever's in shorter supply effectively for when it might be needed later.
• 6:48
  Philip Pape: And that's why the low carb advocates and the fasted cardio enthusiasts where they come in, because they on one hand correctly note that high insulin levels from carbohydrate consumption suppresses fat oxidation, but then they conclude that to lose body fat you should minimize carbohydrate intake to stay in that fat burning mode as much as possible.
• 7:11
  Philip Pape: But here's the flaw Very important what matters for fat loss isn't the fuel you're burning at the moment, but your overall energy balance over time.
• 7:21
  Philip Pape: That's the key distinction here.
• 7:23
  Philip Pape: So guess what's happening on a low-carb diet?
• 7:25
  Philip Pape: You're eating more fats.
• 7:27
  Philip Pape: In other words, you are taking in the same amount of energy.
• 7:29
  Philip Pape: You're just burning a different type of energy because you have more of it.
• 7:34
  Philip Pape: That's all you're doing, right?
• 7:36
  Philip Pape: Whereas a person with moderate to high carbs is eating less fat.
• 7:39
  Philip Pape: So they're burning more carbs.
• 7:40
  Philip Pape: It all nets out to the same thing in terms of energy balance, and the Randall cycle simply addresses the fuel selection.
• 7:49
  Philip Pape: You know you have a fuel selection dial.
• 7:50
  Philip Pape: Am I going to burn glucose or am I going to burn fat?
• 7:52
  Philip Pape: It's not the chronic change in your fat mass on your body.
• 7:57
  Philip Pape: So if I gave you a concrete example, let's say you're eating a low carb, high fat diet, right, keto, carnivore, we know them.
• 8:03
  Philip Pape: Your insulin levels are gonna be relatively low and you'll be primarily oxidizing fat for fuel throughout the day.
• 8:10
  Philip Pape: And if you're on keto, you might be to the point of past ketosis where you are what people call fat-adapted, where you just that's always what you're doing.
• 8:18
  Philip Pape: So that's great.
• 8:20
  Philip Pape: You're burning fat, right, you're burning fat right.
• 8:25
  Philip Pape: But if your total calorie intake exceeds your expenditure, you're still going to gain body fat, even though you're primarily using fat as fuel, because the dietary fat you consume but don't immediately burn is going to get stored.
• 8:35
  Philip Pape: So you're just eating more fat and that all that extra fat is now going to get stored, whereas with the other guy who's eating a balanced diet, the extra carbs are going to get or the fat's gonna get stored while you burn the carbs, it doesn't matter.
• 8:47
  Philip Pape: The energy nets out, right.
• 8:48
  Philip Pape: So again, conversely, if you eat a higher carb diet but you maintain a calorie deficit, right?
• 8:54
  Philip Pape: So this is a lot of the people I work with who want a more flexible diet, more balanced, where they can enjoy their carbs, but then we put them into a calorie deficit, guess what?
• 9:06
  Philip Pape: You're still going to burn glucose, primarily during and after meals because of the carbs, which suppresses your fat oxidation, but over a 24-hour period, your body's still going to need to tap into those fat stores once it runs out of glucose to meet its energy needs, resulting in net fat loss, just because you don't have enough energy period Total energy coming in.
• 9:22
  Philip Pape: And that happens even though you're not maximizing fat burning.
• 9:27
  Philip Pape: Right?
• 9:27
  Philip Pape: Fat oxidation at every moment.
• 9:29
  Philip Pape: And this distinction becomes important when we look at how this applies to specific strategies.
• 9:36
  Philip Pape: Let's start with low carb diets.
• 9:37
  Philip Pape: I know I've already hammered it a little bit, but I want to go one level deep.
• 9:41
  Philip Pape: And then there's absolutely no question that reducing carb intake shifts your metabolism toward greater fat oxidation.
• 9:50
  Philip Pape: We know that.
• 9:51
  Philip Pape: I'm not going to dispute that.
• 9:52
  Philip Pape: That's a fact.
• 9:53
  Philip Pape: Studies consistently show higher rates of fat oxidation both at rest and during exercise in people following low-carb diets, and that is what the Randall Cycle would predict, but it does not translate to better fat loss outcomes, because when calories and protein are controlled, the answer is an emphatic no, there is no difference.
• 10:14
  Philip Pape: A meta-analysis by Hall and Guo in 2017 found that low-fat diets actually produce slightly more fat loss than low-carb diets when calories were equated.
• 10:22
  Philip Pape: Now, part of the reason for that could be because, guess what?
• 10:26
  Philip Pape: Your body requires more energy to digest carbs than it does fat, just like it requires more energy to digest protein than carbs or fat.
• 10:35
  Philip Pape: So that could be one of the reasons why.
• 10:37
  Philip Pape: There's probably other reasons behind there we're not going to get into today, like anti-catabolism, supporting your training, et cetera.
• 10:43
  Philip Pape: Similarly, and also your stress and metabolism.
• 10:46
  Philip Pape: Okay, enough of that.
• 10:47
  Philip Pape: But similarly, there was a study.
• 10:48
  Philip Pape: It was a highly controlled metabolic ward study.
• 10:51
  Philip Pape: Everybody locked in one place and fed a controlled diet.
• 10:56
  Philip Pape: This is by Hall in 2015,.
• 10:58
  Philip Pape: Found that a low-fat diet led to slightly more body fat loss than a low-carb diet, despite the low-carb diet showing increased fat oxidation.
• 11:06
  Philip Pape: Now, my point isn't to say that low-fat's better than low-carb diet showing increased fat oxidation.
• 11:09
  Philip Pape: Now, my point isn't to say that low-fat's better than low-carb.
• 11:10
  Philip Pape: It's to say that there's no advantage to low-carb when it comes to fat oxidation and fat loss.
• 11:17
  Philip Pape: Right, yes, you have more fat oxidation, but you're not going to lose any more fat.
• 11:21
  Philip Pape: Now it doesn't mean low-carb diets can't be effective for fat loss either.
• 11:24
  Philip Pape: That's what I want to say.
• 11:25
  Philip Pape: They can be, but not because they maximize fat oxidation.
• 11:29
  Philip Pape: They work for most people because, number one, you're going to increase your protein intake, which is something everybody needs to do to preserve muscle mass.
• 11:36
  Philip Pape: Number two, it can improve appetite control in some people.
• 11:40
  Philip Pape: Some people actually get hungrier on higher carbs.
• 11:42
  Philip Pape: So having the higher fats and protein helps with satiety Totally true phenomenon that happens.
• 11:47
  Philip Pape: Number three, you reduce water retention, and this is just the appearance of much more rapid progress early on.
• 11:52
  Philip Pape: So when somebody says I went on keto and I lost 10 pounds, yeah, most of that's water weight.
• 11:56
  Philip Pape: And then, number four, it makes your diet, I'll say, simpler in terms of food choices, which will have the illusion of making it easier to adhere, and actually does so for some people, but for most people it actually makes it harder long-term because you're avoiding things that you might otherwise want to enjoy.
• 12:13
  Philip Pape: But again, there are exceptions.
• 12:14
  Philip Pape: There are some people who are like, yeah, I'm happy as a clam on my very limited set of food choices, that's fine, okay.
• 12:20
  Philip Pape: The point here is the effectiveness of a low-carb diet for fat loss doesn't have to do anything at all with increased fat oxidation and has everything to do with energy balance.
• 12:30
  Philip Pape: Always comes back to that, and the same principle applies then to fasted cardio.
• 12:35
  Philip Pape: I want to talk about fasted cardio.
• 12:37
  Philip Pape: This is an interesting one, because it is true that exercising in a fasted state, especially first thing in the morning before breakfast, results in higher fat oxidation during the workout.
• 12:51
  Philip Pape: And if you have not recently consumed carbs to raise insulin, your body relies even more heavily on fat.
• 13:00
  Philip Pape: So if you never eat carbs, of course you're fat adapted.
• 13:02
  Philip Pape: It's just going to be burning a ton of fat.
• 13:05
  Philip Pape: But this again acute increase, right?
• 13:09
  Philip Pape: This energy selection process toward fat burning doesn't translate to greater fat loss over time, for all the reasons we've already discussed, but I'll just throw another study at you by Schoenfeld, a guy I very much respect in the space.
• 13:21
  Philip Pape: This was from 2014,.
• 13:22
  Philip Pape: Found no difference in fat loss between women performing fasted cardio versus fed cardio when total calorie intake was controlled.
• 13:31
  Philip Pape: So what matters is total energy deficit if you're going for fat loss and not whether that deficit comes from fat or carbohydrate oxidation.
• 13:42
  Philip Pape: Right Now, that's not to say fasted cardio, has no benefits at all.
• 13:45
  Philip Pape: Again, I love nuance and individualizing here.
• 13:48
  Philip Pape: The first thing that comes to mind is it's more time efficient.
• 13:51
  Philip Pape: For some people.
• 13:52
  Philip Pape: You get up in the morning and you go right.
• 13:54
  Philip Pape: The other thing is it might improve your ability to switch between fuel sources, and then this is an interesting one.
• 14:01
  Philip Pape: Whether that's beneficial in any other way is, I think, still up for debate, but it does do.
• 14:07
  Philip Pape: It does potentially do that it might help you feel better if you don't like exercising, you know, with food in the morning or you don't have time to eat food, you know there's lots of like logistical and preference reasons for this.
• 14:19
  Philip Pape: And then it might have benefits for certain populations with certain metabolic disorders.
• 14:23
  Philip Pape: I never disclaim that that's a possibility.
• 14:26
  Philip Pape: But if you're just trying to lose fat, you know you have to focus on creating a sustainable energy deficit, and our last episode was all about that.
• 14:34
  Philip Pape: It was all about fat loss.
• 14:35
  Philip Pape: So go listen to that if you missed it.
• 14:37
  Philip Pape: And this happens through your new training.
• 14:38
  Philip Pape: New training this is the combination of nutrition and training called new training, through your nutrition and training approach.
• 14:46
  Philip Pape: Your lifestyle is going to be way more impactful than worrying about whether you're maximizing fat oxidation, and by way more I mean like all of it.
• 14:54
  Philip Pape: In other words, extra fat oxidation from low carb or faster training, whatever is going to make not a lick of difference in your overall fat loss relative to what the other lifestyle changes will.
• 15:04
  Philip Pape: So if acute fat burning, fat oxidation, is not the key to fat loss, what is Well?
• 15:10
  Philip Pape: Again, it comes down to basic thermodynamics and energy balance.
• 15:14
  Philip Pape: To lose body fat, you have to create an energy deficit where you consume fewer calories than you expend.
• 15:19
  Philip Pape: That is it, and that forces your body to mobilize whatever energy is stored and available right, preferentially from fat tissue, to meet its needs.
• 15:28
  Philip Pape: And again, if you don't have enough calories coming in and you're still consuming carbs, it's going to go to carbs and then it's going to go to fat, but the net effect is the same, right.
• 15:37
  Philip Pape: So the key factors here are then the total calorie intake versus your expenditure, your protein intake, resistance, training and the ability to adhere to your diet.
• 15:45
  Philip Pape: Of course, recovery is massive as well All the things I spoke about in the last episode, the three plus three model of fat loss.
• 15:52
  Philip Pape: So go for, listen to that, for a deep dive.
• 15:59
  Philip Pape: And none of these things depend on maximizing fat oxidation at any given moment.
• 16:01
  Philip Pape: That is just energy systems.
• 16:02
  Philip Pape: That is just your body saying hey, I'm efficient, you need energy, I need to give you energy.
• 16:06
  Philip Pape: Let's see what's on the menu today.
• 16:08
  Philip Pape: Is it glucose or is it fat?
• 16:09
  Philip Pape: It doesn't matter, it's all energy to your body, right.
• 16:12
  Philip Pape: And at the end of the day, the deficit and the energy balance is what matters.
• 16:15
  Philip Pape: Which brings me to an important engineering principle that applies perfectly here Optimize for the outcome, not the process.
• 16:25
  Philip Pape: Now, you might be confused when I say this, because I talk all the time about how important the process is.
• 16:31
  Philip Pape: But if we think of engineering where we focus on the end result, the product, the system, the service, the software, we then reverse, engineer and work backward to determine the most efficient way to achieve it.
• 16:43
  Philip Pape: We don't get caught up in optimizing I'll say, individual steps if they don't materially affect the final outcome.
• 16:51
  Philip Pape: We care about an efficient process that gets us to the outcome right, and then we focus on the process, but we optimize for the outcome and for fat loss.
• 17:01
  Philip Pape: This means focusing on the factors that directly influence body composition over time, not on momentary metabolic processes that have little impact on the end result, like I'm not going to tell you to drink more coffee because it might have a slight thermo thermic boost in your metabolism.
• 17:16
  Philip Pape: That's not an efficient way to optimize the process.
• 17:18
  Philip Pape: Think of it like this If you're trying to save money, what matters is the difference between your income and your spending right, not whether you pay for a purchase with cash or credit.
• 17:27
  Philip Pape: That's effectively what this is Glucose or fat, cash or credit doesn't matter.
• 17:31
  Philip Pape: It's all coming from your energy budget.
• 17:33
  Philip Pape: So, with fat loss, what matters is the difference between your intake and expenditure, not whether you're burning fat versus carbs at a given moment.
• 17:40
  Philip Pape: And now I want to address one more aspect of this topic that causes a lot of confusion, and that is the difference between what we measure and what matters.
• 17:50
  Philip Pape: And this goes back to what I just said about optimizing for the outcome.
• 17:55
  Philip Pape: When people follow low-carb diets or they do fasted cardio or any of these fat-burning tricks, they often point to indicators of increased fat oxidation as proof that they're working.
• 18:05
  Philip Pape: They might mention ketones Look, look at all the ketones in my urine or blood work.
• 18:10
  Philip Pape: They might mention a lower respiratory quotient RQ during exercise oh, I'm burning more fat because my RQ is lower.
• 18:16
  Philip Pape: They might say that they are fat adapted.
• 18:18
  Philip Pape: Oh, I feel great.
• 18:19
  Philip Pape: I have steady energy, I don't have crashes, all my inflammation has gone away.
• 18:22
  Philip Pape: You guys seen these posts by people.
• 18:24
  Philip Pape: I went on carnivore and everything got solved.
• 18:26
  Philip Pape: Well, these measurements do indeed confirm something they increase.
• 18:30
  Philip Pape: They confirm increased fat oxidation.
• 18:32
  Philip Pape: They might even confirm that you have um, eliminated something that didn't work for you and then you just never added, added back the things that do.
• 18:40
  Philip Pape: That's fine, that's cool.
• 18:42
  Philip Pape: You start where you're at, but they don't predict better fat loss outcomes.
• 18:46
  Philip Pape: They're measuring individual, independent aspects of the process rather than the result.
• 18:52
  Philip Pape: And once you see that they don't actually produce fat loss and you reverse engineer it, you say maybe it's not necessary to focus on fat oxidation.
• 19:01
  Philip Pape: In the end, what I actually focus on is measuring and tracking progress toward the end goal by optimizing the process.
• 19:07
  Philip Pape: For that you know my change in body composition over time, your, your, your trend, weight, your measurements, your photos, your, maybe even body fat.
• 19:14
  Philip Pape: I'm not a big fan of measuring body fat, but there are ways to do body fat trends that are helpful.
• 19:18
  Philip Pape: Um, has your strength gone up or down?
• 19:20
  Philip Pape: Have you?
• 19:21
  Philip Pape: How are your energy levels, your hunger, your well-being?
• 19:23
  Philip Pape: And yeah, these are outcomes.
• 19:25
  Philip Pape: And by outcome I don't just mean at the end of the day, did you lose 20 pounds six months from now, I mean all the things that come from your day-to-day actions in optimizing the process.
• 19:36
  Philip Pape: Are you adherent to your calorie and protein targets?
• 19:39
  Philip Pape: That is an outcome of the process of being consistent in hitting your targets.
• 19:43
  Philip Pape: So, anyway, I can go on, but I think it's important to understand that difference Fat burning, fat loss two different things.
• 19:51
  Philip Pape: And this gives you more freedom once you understand that, with your nutrition, with your training or with your new training, just kidding.
• 19:57
  Philip Pape: And that's what matters, right, what matters is your energy deficit.
• 20:00
  Philip Pape: It makes it simple.
• 20:01
  Philip Pape: It actually makes it really simple, and I'm kind of hitting again on some of the messages from the last episode which, again, I highly recommend listening if you didn't.
• 20:09
  Philip Pape: But when you know that what matters is the energy deficit, it actually frees you in a lot of ways.
• 20:14
  Philip Pape: It frees you with your meal timing.
• 20:16
  Philip Pape: You could eat when your schedule and preferences match.
• 20:18
  Philip Pape: You can include carbs I mean, that's the big one that comes to mind If you enjoy them, if they fuel your training, if you tolerate them absolutely.
• 20:27
  Philip Pape: It informs your training.
• 20:34
  Philip Pape: You're not going to be choosing movement or training for fat burning.
• 20:36
  Philip Pape: You're going to do something that supports your real goal, which is strength, muscle, athleticism, whatever, and then you can find a diet that works for you, not based on some metabolic theory that doesn't actually produce the results, it doesn't optimize for the result and that's much more enjoyable, in my opinion and they're going to produce better results because you're going to sustain them.
• 20:53
  Philip Pape: That's what we're going for, right?
• 20:55
  Philip Pape: The most optimal diet for fat loss is that one that you can stick with.
• 20:58
  Philip Pape: I can say that to the cows come home.
• 20:59
  Philip Pape: Some people won't accept it.
• 21:00
  Philip Pape: They want to cut their foods.
• 21:02
  Philip Pape: They want to claim that fat adapted makes them superior in some way for fat burning, and it doesn't right.
• 21:07
  Philip Pape: Energy balance is where it's at.
• 21:08
  Philip Pape: All the other things are important for other reasons for health, for strength, et cetera.
• 21:12
  Philip Pape: But today we wanted to talk about the difference between fat loss and fat burning, right?
• 21:17
  Philip Pape: So, to recap, fat oxidation burning fat for fuel and fat loss, which is reducing stored body fat, are distinct physiological processes that don't necessarily go hand in hand.
• 21:28
  Philip Pape: The RAND cycle look it up if you'd like explains why carb intake suppresses fat oxidation, but it doesn't prevent fat loss, because it's the energy balance that matters.
• 21:37
  Philip Pape: Low-carb diets, fasted cardio they do increase fat oxidation, but they don't produce any more fat loss and some studies show they actually produce less.
• 21:48
  Philip Pape: For successful fat loss, you're going to focus on the factors that influence body composition over time.
• 21:51
  Philip Pape: That's what's important for fat loss.
• 21:52
  Philip Pape: Go listen to my last episode, the three plus three model of fat loss, for details.
• 21:56
  Philip Pape: And then adapting an engineering mindset like we do here, means optimizing for the outcomes over days, weeks and months rather than optimizing for the process itself.
• 22:07
  Philip Pape: The bottom line is that I don't want you to get caught up in chasing fat burning, because what's going to happen is you're going to do restrictive, weird, cult-like approaches.
• 22:17
  Philip Pape: I'm sorry to put it that way, but you are.
• 22:19
  Philip Pape: You're going to fall into a tribe.
• 22:20
  Philip Pape: That's all about fat burning and you're actually not going to lose fat.
• 22:23
  Philip Pape: And I want you to lose fat right.
• 22:25
  Philip Pape: I want you to lose fat doing something that works for you, that feels great, that's good for your body, your preferences, your lifestyle, that's it All right.
• 22:32
  Philip Pape: If you found today's episode helpful, please take a moment to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and be entered for a random selection of one winner each month to receive a free protein supplement of their choice.
• 22:45
  Philip Pape: And it means a lot to me when people let me know what they think of the show, and it means a lot to others when they understand what they're getting into, for better or worse.
• 22:54
  Philip Pape: Just go to Apple Podcasts on your Apple device, search for Wits and Weights, click ratings and reviews and leave your feedback.
• 23:01
  Philip Pape: Takes about one minute, but it makes a huge difference, so I really appreciate it.
• 23:04
  Philip Pape: Until next time, keep using your wits lifting those weights and remember, when it comes to fat loss, it is not about burning fat in the moment.
• 23:12
  Philip Pape: It's about creating the conditions for your body to lose fat over time.
• 23:15
  Philip Pape: This is Philip Pape and you've been listening to Wits and Weights.
• 23:19
  Philip Pape: I will talk to you next time.
• 23:20
  Philip Pape: Bye.