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Finding Your Kinky Match: A Conversation with Kink Matchmaker Shea Primus · The Kink Consultant

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It's a King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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to it. Hey everyone, and welcome to
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this week's episode of the King Consultant Podcast.
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I'm your host, Amanda Dames, and today I am joined by an
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incredible founder and CEO. I would love to welcome Shay
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Primus of Upper Echelon Matchmaking.
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She is CEO and founder. Welcome, Shay.
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Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
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I am so excited to have you on because I mean like I am on a
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little kick. My listeners will know while I
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met my partner in person. I'm eternally trying to figure
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out what are the best ways to help my listeners who are dating
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find kinky people. And I was like, oh, let me talk
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to a matchmaker. I want to hear more about the
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process. And then you dropped a little
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nugget on this interview. I don't even know how to phrase
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this. Like tell him what you told me
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before this that I didn't know. You asked if I'd ever had a
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kinky client, and I told you that's actually how I got into
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the kink space myself. So I had a kinky client.
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She identifies as a pleasure Dom and she wants to marry a sub.
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Actually, I had two clients. I had her and I had a male
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client who identifies as a cup and he wanted me to find him a
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hot wife. So I found myself going to kink
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spaces to scout for my clients, to find the right companions for
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my clients. So that's how I got involved in
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kink myself. I'm, you know, a kink
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consultant. I've been in kink a long time.
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I know there are so many men struggling to find a dominant
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woman, struggling to find a woman who's into.
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Are you telling me first of all, a woman proactively came to you
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and said, hey, I need help finding a submissive male.
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Can I just make a quick announcement?
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Listen up. There are dominant ladies out
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there. They're not just looking for
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money. They are really dominant, but
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they're investing in finding quality matches.
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So you got to up your game. Submissive men listen right now
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I need much love. Find the ones that actually want
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a relationship. Some people just like to play
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right, and that's fine. But yeah, so like her, she's
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like, I need to marry this type of person.
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This is not just I want to play with this type of person.
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I want him to be my husband. I'm sitting here in shock too
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though, because I know that a lot of submissive men talk to me
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about finding a dominant woman and I'm just so happy to know
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that like people are investing in finding the right person.
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But you're right, it's a big thing that when you're kinky,
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it's a question of are you looking for a play partner or a
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dating partner? How do you navigate those kinky
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requests? And I think for me, I was, you
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know, trying to go to conferences, reading books,
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asking. I have a sex therapist on staff,
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so she was educating me, but I didn't get it until I joined the
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world myself. I'm pretty sure it's challenging
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for a vanilla matchmaker to navigate, you know, matching in
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kink spaces because there are terms you don't understand.
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There are personalities you don't understand.
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These people go to different places.
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They're into different things. And if you're not in the world,
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it's hard to scout for them and find them.
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You literally have to be at a party right where they are
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because they live regular lives. You would never know them
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day-to-day. They're engineers and doctors
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and lawyers. You wouldn't know them until
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they come to a play space and they identify.
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And because I was a part of the group, then I can scout better,
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right? And I'm like, you know what?
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Now that I've gotten to know you, you'd be perfect for my
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client. So that's how I got involved.
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It's very interesting. The service you provide for
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those clients, that's like the kink dream to be able to have
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someone matchmake. And I have people tell me all
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the time, oh, why don't you start a kinky matchmaking
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service? First of all, I'm like, well,
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it's hard to be a matchmaker Art.
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Like just because I'm kinky doesn't mean I can find people
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who are right for each other. So can we take a step back and
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just talk matchmaking? Like, what's your approach?
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How have you made this a business?
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That's a great question. I've been a matchmaker for 11
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years and it didn't start off this way at all.
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The Governor Vanilla supported the Patriarchy matchmaker.
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Honestly, that's how it started. It was just started from a place
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of wanting to help people find love.
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And initially my business was called Middle Class Matchmaker.
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And then I was approached by a local rapper, Rick Ross, and you
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know, he's wealthy. And I was like.
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Yeah. Current database is middle class
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people, so I rebranded to Upper Echelon so that I could get
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higher end clientele to match him.
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And then out of the higher end clientele, I got into the kink
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space. But matching fundamentally is
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just really about finding people who are compatible with each
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other. And compatibility is about your
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lifestyle. It's about do you like to
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travel? Like you would be so surprised
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at people who are not lifestyle compatible.
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So one of the things I learned quickly is that that was
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important, especially my clients are more successful people.
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Lifestyle compatibility mattered.
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If you travel all the time and I'm at home all the time, we're
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not going to be lifestyle compatible.
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I need to be able to meet you in Greece for the weekend, are able
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to go to Paris with you next week, you know what I mean?
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Like that flexibility of schedule became more important
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with my upper echelon clientele. But honestly, I will tell you
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that as I change and increase my level of clientele, I had
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kinkier clients. There are more kinky clients in
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that upper echelon tier. You'd be surprised how many
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powerful men and women are also into kink.
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They also like, I'm a CEO at this big firm, but I'm a
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submissive outside of work and that's the kind of people I was
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finding so asked about that. I have a sex therapist.
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She was very helpful in helping me navigate this world and
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understand the space. I have a regular therapist
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because oftentimes people have trauma and that can affect them
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bonding or being in relationship.
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They've experienced abuse. I mean, these things are real
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and they can be impactful. It doesn't mean you can't find
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love, but I think it means you need to be aware of your stuff
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so that you are understanding your triggers and you can
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communicate them better in these spaces.
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And then I'll do dating coaching because if without dating
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coaching, you're just going to take those old patterns into the
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new relationship, right? And those patterns break them,
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create new ones so that you can have healthy relationships going
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forward. And then for me as a matchmaker,
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I do have a database, but as you can see, I also change as my
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clients come in, I go find those people for my clients.
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So in this situation, that meant I need to go into these spaces
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to find these types of clients. And you can't just walk in and
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go, oh, that's Joe. And as a sub, you kind of need
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to be in the community to know Joe and to get to him and know
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that he would be compatible for this person.
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So that's how I ended up in this world.
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I love that tailored approach. And also you're not just
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unleashing people who are bad at dating on other people because
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their lifestyles match up. But have you ever had to have
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that difficult conversation with someone that's sort of like,
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you're kind of awkward and we need to work on that a little
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bit. Oh yeah.
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Yes, a lot of men and let's just be honest, are nerds or geeks or
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into, you know what I mean? And they could be socially
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awkward. It's a whole thing.
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I think we're all aware because the kink space is also home to a
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lot of people on the spectrum. You know, there's a lot of
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people that might be socially awkward.
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I think we could just say the quiet part out loud.
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So that is absolutely a thing that I've found.
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And so a lot of my coaching is helping people come out of their
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shell, helping them be a little bit more social and interacting
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with people, you know, because it's easier to do online behind
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the screen, but it's going to sometimes require you to
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interact face to face too. So we have sessions as well.
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You did say the quiet part out loud, but we know it.
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I've been to enough kink parties to experience it.
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And it's hard to meet people sometimes because you are
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looking for that everything, the complete matchup.
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And I think that kink is still so taboo, or at least quite
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secretive, especially if you're not in a big city.
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Like you're still based in Atlanta, right?
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But you see clients, you work with clients nationally.
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Right. Yep.
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So at least in a big city like Atlanta, if you're going to a
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King party, you're going to meet a lot of people.
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If you're in a smaller city, like I believe, Las Vegas, it's
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all kinds coming to one party. And while everyone's lovely, not
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everyone's going to be your type of person, and that's hard to
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find. So yeah, you're basically just
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saying what anyone who's ever been to a King party has
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discovered for themselves. These are the Dungeons and
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Dragons guys, you know what I mean?
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Yes, and that's great. They make great partners, are
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usually emotionally available. They support feminism.
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So it's like great pros. They're great pros with these
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guys, but one of the cons could be that they could be socially
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awkward too. You're so spot on, especially
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about the feminism and caring about what matters to a lot of
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women. There is for saying the quiet
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part out loud sometimes more of a softness to those men in
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general. And I think that often you were
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mentioning CE OS who are submissive.
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Sometimes I think that that's softness.
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It doesn't exist in the bedroom. They can turn into one of the
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harshest. Most.
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Not seeming feminist dominant types in a heartbeat.
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But again, This is why it's so interesting to talk to someone
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who match makes. Because if you're working with
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kinky people it's hard enough to match ACEOI imagine, but then to
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say OK you need someone lifestyle compatible.
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Like as in matching the pace you're going at, but also
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matching you in the bedroom? That's huge.
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Double duty on your part. We'll say as a lot of people are
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ethically non monogamous, that means some people might be
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monogamous and my one client that was a Dom was looking for a
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monogamous relationship. But what I have found is in this
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space, a lot of people are ethically non monogamous or
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Polly. So the good thing about that is
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this could be your person. They don't have to be into all
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the kinky things that you're into because you're ethically
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non monogamous. You could fill that void with
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these other people, but this is your core person, which is your
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primary partner, so that usually helps as well.
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OK I would have been a difficult client because I'm like no I
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have a full on spanking and punishment fetish.
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Everyone knows this but I always say it.
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A fetish is a need to have meaning.
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I've never orgasmed without it. Or a kink is a nice to have
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which means we want it. It's important to us, we want it
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in our relationships. You can come without it
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basically, but I'm monogamous and was like, I only want
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someone into this. And it did make dating harder
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because just so you know, I just moved to Kansas City a month and
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a half ago to make this relationship work.
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Wow. But I would have been a
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difficult client for you. At least I was willing to move
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though. Then that makes it not
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difficult. Some people are like, it needs
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to be in this location. I'm not open to moving.
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And it's like, if you live in the middle of nowhere, how am I
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going to find this person, you know?
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Yeah. So can we talk a little bit
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about your personal experience with King?
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Absolutely. I'm an open book, by the way.
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OK, I love it. How did you find these events?
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Because for a vanilla person, even if you're like in the know,
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I'm not sure if many people would know where to actually
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start. Yes.
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I think for me, I have a friend who was a sub.
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He came out as a sub to me and he was like high profile.
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You would never know that he was a sub and he's a black man and
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he said that it's kind of taboo. But you know, I'm a sub and he
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took me to my first femme dumb party because that's what he
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likes to go to as a submissive man.
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So I was looking for submissives for that one client.
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Remember he told me about that life.
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So I created a profile. I'm Goddess Lux there FY I
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created a profile and started going to events.
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So I started with him. Initially he introduced me to
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some Subs, but I knew that she would want like a higher income
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bracket. That's what she wanted for her.
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She's high income and it was important to her that she have
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someone that didn't look at her like a sugar Mama.
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He needed to also be high income but also be a sub.
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So I was joining Fetlife. I could search for cities,
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events. I joined various groups and
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that's how I was able able to connect with some Subs and I
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actually met some very wealthy submissives for her going that
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route. Well, like we said, there are a
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lot of CEOs or people in position of powered men and
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women who prefer being submissive in the bedroom
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because they are large and in charge during the day.
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However, I would be lying if I didn't say that I also have
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found working in this space and having clients who are kinky not
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in the matchmaking space, just in coaching, I have found that
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it can be hard to find kinky people who are in those upper
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echelon right? And I'm wondering, has that been
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a challenge for you to find people who are out actively
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practicing kink in public settings like a party?
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It's not out on the street, but they have Fetlife profiles.
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You can show up and just meet random people.
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They're like, do you find it is hard to find that group of
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people for your clients at these parties?
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No, it has not been my experience.
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Maybe because I'm in Atlanta, I don't know, but that has not
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been my experience. The communities I've joined,
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everybody's been professional, everybody's had like actual
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careers, something to lose. So I joined these communities
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where they bet, that kind of thing, and I have not
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experienced that. So everyone that I've been
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interacting with has pretty much been on on point from that
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perspective. OK, that's really good for you.
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I think it might be a city thing because I also knew this from
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New York, but I talked to people across the country who are kinky
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and dating, which is why I'm so excited to have you on the
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episode because I think people are looking for this solution.
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You're probably going to get an influx now.
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OK, first, being like my match. I know because I'm always saying
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I'm like, I'm not starting a matchmaking business.
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That is serious work, and you're putting in the time.
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Yes, because you have something I don't.
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You have the people, you know, a lot of people.
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I'm having to meet them 1 by 1, you know what I mean?
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Because I've only been in the space 2 years, right?
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And I started, like I said, just meeting people for my 2 clients,
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my male client who was a surgeon and a cook, black.
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And I think that's the other thing too.
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A lot of black men feel a sense of shame if they're submissive
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or they're cooks and they don't want anybody to know these
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things. Of course, I have
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confidentiality agreements with my clients, of course, of
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course. But I think in the kick space
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for black people specifically, this is taboo.
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This is like clutch and pearls. Don't tell anybody, you know?
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And so I want to say no matter who you are, no matter you're
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raised out of your background, everybody deserves love.
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And if you're looking your counterparts also looking for
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you, you have a desire for it. You have a counterpart that also
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has a desire to find you. So nobody should feel weird or
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different or less than a. 100% and I love that you said that
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because I go to so many parties. I've met tons of couples who met
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at parties. I met my partner at a party.
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Sometimes it's disheartening because I think I've been to so
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many parties and invested time traveling and everything to
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parties, like you said, just traveling in general that it can
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feel hard, but it's nice the reminder that someone is out
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there for you. Your other half, yes, like the
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other side to your coin is there, you just need to find it.
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Yes, and in the meantime you can have a great deal of fun.
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I know. So in your own King's journey,
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what did you find that you enjoyed?
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Like, were you taken in any directions you weren't expecting
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to go in personally? Yeah, and let me say, I've been
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doing kinky things most of my adult life.
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This is the first time I'm in a kink community.
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When you read my book Touch, you'll see that from college I
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started experimenting or as a young adult I started
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experimenting. One of the first things I did, I
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have a chapter called Kink and Crossfire where I was early 20s
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and I did consensual non consent with a guy.
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And that surprisingly turned me on a lot because I am a survivor
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of rape and molestation. And you wouldn't think, I don't
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know you would as a kink, as Alder, you would know for a lot
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of us who have been survivors of sexual assault, it's healing to
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find someone that you can find safety in and you can
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participate in consensual non consent.
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It is healing. Some other things that I like.
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I have a breeding kink. Oh yes, I like seeing me too,
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but like, there is something real special about a breeding
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kink. It is.
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I definitely have a breeding kink.
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Which brings me to this point. I do something I call holding
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responsibly. So I'm on Prep and Doxy pet.
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Prep prevents HIV, Doxy pet prevents committee of gonorrhea
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and syphilis. I need to put that in there
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because I'm just not out here haphazardly doing these things.
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It's done in safety, especially when you have a breeding kink,
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you know, that's playing with fluids.
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So you need to make sure you're safe, right?
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Even in your kink space? I love that you mentioned that
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as well because I know a lot of people who are doing it, but
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it's rarely part of the conversation, so I'm glad you
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said it. It's kind of like they're the
17:33
condoms of today. We have all of this medicine to
17:35
prevent things, and I hope there's not a stigma about being
17:40
on it, or at least that we're working through it.
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But it's because you come on my podcast and say openly, hey, I'm
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doing this, but I'm also doing it safely.
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I'm doing it safely. And I will say in the King
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community that I'm in, half of us are on prep.
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I mean, Atlanta has a very high HIV rate, especially in the
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black community. So it's not even a question.
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Everybody knows that this is out there.
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And hey, if you want to play this way, you need to play
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safely. One thing I will say in the
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community that I join, we're big about tests getting tested.
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And so right before every party, everybody's submitting their
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test results. Like 2 weeks before the party,
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we get wristbands of who's green.
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That means two weeks or less, two weeks or sooner test
18:19
results. And over a month you're yellow
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and over that you're red. So we know everybody's that is
18:25
and test results and it just makes playing easy and fun and
18:28
one less thing to worry about. Oh that does make things a lot
18:31
easier because it takes away one step of you having to have a
18:34
conversation with someone. It's like there's less friction
18:37
then to playing and. Then you could just play, you
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know? One thing I will say about this
18:42
journey, being in the kink space is the place that I feel seen.
18:46
I don't feel judged. I think all my life I've always
18:49
felt like I was too much because I have a very high sex drive and
18:52
I have to explain that I wanted too much without being called a
18:55
nympho or without somebody saying something's wrong with
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me. Like in this space, I'm in love
19:00
because slats are loved. In the kink space, I get to
19:02
literally let my free flag fly and be loved on and be
19:06
appreciated and valued. It's a great experience.
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That's what I find about kink 2. I was just telling someone
19:12
recently I'm my whole self when my kink side is seen and that's
19:17
why I think it is worth investing in and prioritizing
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because I mean for me that's my number one.
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I was like, I need someone who matches the, this part of me
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really #1 fall in place #1 too many failed relationships, too
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much feeling like I was missing out on life.
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And it was one of those things. And I think women in general are
19:37
feeling this way a little more. You are the expert here.
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I don't need a man. I want a man.
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So if I want a man, he needs to do the things I can't do for
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myself, which I'm with a very supportive man.
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If he is listening, I appreciate how giving and generous you are.
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He's going to be like, oh, she doesn't need.
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I mean, but I want someone because I work, I do all of the
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other things. I can travel by myself.
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So with someone who loves traveling wasn't a prerequisite,
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but someone who understood this was.
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And I very few things that I can't do for myself, but this
20:10
was 1. Yeah, I'm so happy you found
20:12
that. Imagine me as a matchmaker and
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I'm having this awakening and I'm actually moving away from
20:18
relationships. Personally, I have decentered
20:21
men and I prioritize my pleasure and that means my authentic self
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in this season is being ethically non monogamous.
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I don't want a relationship. I am just here to have the
20:34
experience to have the pleasure and leave like that's what I
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want to do. And so being in the community
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where I'm able to do that and you be open to that's what I
20:43
want. That's all I want and that's OK
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and I don't. Feel judged.
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Yes it is OK. I also love that you are in a
20:50
space and it's fully understood. I want this for my life.
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I'm here to help you with whatever you want for your life,
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so let's make that happen. Right.
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There's some judgment either way, because one thing I will
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say is that life has ebbs and flows.
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I've been a relationship girly my whole life, and in this last
21:09
two years I have healed through pleasure.
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That is the era that I'm in. I'm doing all the things, I'm
21:17
having all the experiences, and I'm writing an erotic memoir.
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So I was in one relationship. I couldn't have all these
21:23
chapters, stories. Doing it for the people too.
21:28
Yeah, I'm doing it for the people.
21:30
I feel you on that. So the book comes out in
21:32
October, right? I just want to get that right,
21:34
OK? Every chapter is a different
21:35
person is a different story of of my journey from lovers to
21:40
relationships, heartbreak, spiritual experiences.
21:43
Because one thing I've learned is there is no separation
21:46
between sexuality and spirituality.
21:49
And I had some deeply spiritual encounters through orgasm like
21:55
opening up a whole new world. I do orgasmic manifestation.
22:00
I've encountered the divine feminine like it has changed my
22:03
whole life just being on this journey of prioritizing
22:06
pleasure. I literally I'm overwhelmed with
22:09
excitement that this is the experience you're having now.
22:12
I agree completely with the spirituality side of it too.
22:15
I think when you connect with someone and you're focused on
22:17
each other's pleasure too, there's nothing more bonding
22:21
than that. Like we talk about fluid bonding
22:23
and stuff like that, but you're literally bonding with someone
22:25
in a really special way. It's hard not to elevate it if
22:27
you 2. Are connected to that spiritual
22:29
level. Yes, you will elevate and it's a
22:32
beautiful thing. So you said that for you,
22:35
someone understanding your kink was a high priority.
22:38
I would say that for me as well, because right now I want
22:43
multiple experiences, but also spiritually, I would want
22:47
someone that doesn't try to shrink me or make me feel small.
22:50
You know, if I'm doing some witchy stuff, they understand
22:53
that that's what I'm into and they don't try to change that
22:56
about me. That would be very important to
22:58
me too, because like you said, I don't need you.
23:00
I want you. So if you're here, I want you to
23:04
compliment me in that way and respect me in that way.
23:07
And then for me, I just want to mention that a close second for
23:10
me though, and I think for me it is a spiritual thing, is that we
23:13
align on our values in general. Yes.
23:17
Because I don't think you can align spiritually with someone
23:19
whose values are not aligned to you.
23:21
Absolutely. And you know what?
23:23
That brings up a point for me. I don't like to play with
23:27
married men. Period.
23:28
OK, Hard no. That's a boundary for me because
23:32
I'm a matchmaker. That's a conflict of interest.
23:34
I'm putting couples together. I'm putting people together.
23:37
I can't be putting couples together and then playing with
23:41
those couples. It just goes against what I'm
23:43
doing. So for me personally, that's a
23:44
hard boundary. Do you mean monogamous married
23:47
men? Sure.
23:48
Either one, no. Even if they're both there so
23:51
you would not get involved in like a hot wifing situation, you
23:55
are not a hot wife getting with a married man while the wife
23:58
watches or. I can be a hot wife if they're
24:01
not married or I obviously don't like being a Unicorn.
24:05
I really don't because last time I was a Unicorn the couple was
24:09
like looking at each other and cuddling with each other after
24:12
and just left me by myself and I just didn't like that feeling.
24:15
I would like to be involved and included and that whole way.
24:19
For you, it's like you want to feel prioritized, which is
24:22
important to you and you recognize that.
24:24
So you make sure you're just meeting your own needs and
24:28
you're looking out for your own needs.
24:29
You're not expecting anyone else yet to 70 even.
24:33
I had to reframe that in a minute because I was like,
24:34
you're allowed to have whatever boundary you want.
24:36
But I think this is a perfect example of going a little bit
24:40
further on the why because now you've perfectly explained why.
24:43
Also on a deeper level, it's not just this is my boundary.
24:46
Everyone's more than welcome to stop there.
24:48
You gave me that deeper insight of you know what you want and
24:52
need and why you need those things and unashamedly you're
24:56
going after. It I do like being prioritized.
24:59
So being a goddess, I'm clear that I'm a goddess.
25:02
I'm clear of who I am and that needs to be in place no matter
25:06
what. I'm never comfortable being 2nd
25:09
place, second wife, second side chick.
25:12
I'm priority. I'm main character energy all
25:14
the time and so in a situation like that I wouldn't get that
25:17
need met. OK, I totally understand that in
25:20
coaching when I'm working with couples, that is something that
25:23
I teach a lot of people. It's OK that that's your need
25:26
and what you want, and let's embrace it and figure out how to
25:29
own it. I love that you're already
25:30
owning it and it's not a question.
25:32
I do own it and I think in a situation I will never say
25:36
never, but in general, married men just do nothing for me
25:41
unless I know somebody's married.
25:42
I'm just like, no thanks, moving on.
25:44
Because there's so many single people out here that I could
25:47
play with and I don't have to to drama.
25:49
Yes, for some people there are because jealousy is a completely
25:52
understandable thing, but it can lead to drama that you're
25:56
avoiding usually if you're dealing with single people.
25:59
In my experience, no matter what community you get involved in
26:03
any community. Not kink, not swinger like.
26:05
I'm talking your sewing circle. Church.
26:08
And community, there's going to be drama, at least a little.
26:12
There's some, there's always even in this community, there
26:15
could be drama of you spend more time with that person, you're
26:19
having sex with that person more, you know, you were in this
26:22
scene with this person longer. Those things can happen.
26:25
Yeah. I think they can be more easily
26:27
mitigated than, you know, personal emotional feelings.
26:31
Yeah, I think it's a major lesson in know what you want and
26:35
go after it unashamedly, because if you weren't, the only person
26:39
you'd be hurting is yourself. For what?
26:41
That's right, you have to always make sure you're getting what
26:44
you need at all times, whatever that is.
26:46
I see why you are such a good matchmaker already because they
26:49
think people need that reassurance of yeah, look out
26:53
for yourself, be there. Have you seen any common
26:57
pitfalls among daters in general?
27:00
Like people come to you for matchmaking?
27:02
Have you seen a lot of people make the same mistake in dating?
27:05
Yes, and this is across the board, whether you're kink or
27:07
vanilla, I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations.
27:13
You know of this perfect person who does not exist because
27:17
you're not perfect, right? We don't make space for people
27:21
to be human and we don't make space for people to be
27:24
imperfect. And so when they come with this
27:26
laundry list and I'm like, oh, here we go.
27:31
You got to make space for it. It's like my surgeon, the guy
27:34
who was a cuckold, and he's like, listen, he wants a hot
27:38
wife. Like in his situation, he wants
27:40
his woman to be with however many people she wants to be
27:42
with. That's his dream.
27:43
He could marry somebody like me, like in general, just out there
27:47
doing all the things, but he didn't have a specific look.
27:50
So let's say he was like, but she's got to look like a Barbie
27:53
doll and she's got to be a songs too, and she's got to have
27:56
blonde hair. Let's say he was very specific.
27:58
That would have made that harder if he was just open to, she
28:01
could be a selective slut as we call it.
28:04
She could do that and just come home and tell me all about it.
28:07
He's a cleanup cook, so his cake was cleaning her up when she
28:10
came home from doing all the things that she was doing.
28:13
He would want to know about it. That would be something they
28:15
would be interested in. But let's say he was like, she's
28:18
got to be 5 feet tall and she's got to wear a size 2 and she's
28:21
got to look this way in here. You're limiting yourself.
28:25
You're limiting the container that that person can be in.
28:28
You know what I mean? But from my perspective, I do
28:31
think when you get to that level of needing your list met, even
28:36
if you have the most abundant mindset, even if you have 1000
28:40
people who match that exact kink being like, oh, they need to be
28:42
all these things. You might eliminate 1000 people
28:46
from your pool by being that way.
28:48
But I do want to talk about scarcity too, because I've found
28:52
this in kinky dating. I would find someone close
28:54
enough to kink or I would find someone we may not have aligned
28:58
on the values. This was when I wasn't very sure
29:00
of what I was looking for. And I found that what my brain
29:04
would do would say, but there might not be anybody else.
29:07
So how do you balance that? I'm not even sure I mastered it.
29:10
I just happened to meet someone there was no question about.
29:13
But like, how do you navigate the scarcity fear?
29:18
And also I want my needs met. And it's real.
29:21
And there's an illusion of scarcity, right?
29:24
But this universe is so abundant.
29:27
Just that's why I said initially, the fact that you
29:30
exist, there's someone who's looking for you out there and
29:33
not just one person. There are millions of people
29:36
that fit that. You know, it's not one person,
29:38
it's lots of people who could be right.
29:41
You just haven't found them yet. And just knowing that today
29:44
could be the day that you do right and staying open to that.
29:47
But scarcity mindset is a lie, just like the imposter syndrome.
29:52
And the world is abundant of a lot of resources and that goes
29:56
from money that goes for jobs, that goes for anything.
29:58
It's abundant. And we have to tell ourselves
30:01
that the fact that you desire it lets you know that the
30:04
counterpart to that exists and just stay with that, knowing
30:07
that there is at least one person, but I would say millions
30:10
of people, but there's at least one person who also wants the
30:13
same thing. And it's just about finding that
30:16
person. Believing that is key.
30:18
And then also not closing the door too much with your laundry
30:21
list of blonde size 2 situation. Because now you're being
30:27
restrictive and you're telling the universe, not only do I want
30:30
this thing, but it needs to come in this contest container.
30:33
Once you said these are the two things that are a priority for
30:35
me, Stick to that. These two things, look for those
30:38
two things. And that could be in any
30:39
container. If they have those two things,
30:41
I'm saying container, but I mean like body compulsion, height,
30:45
whatever. They have those two things that
30:47
are priority for you. It's a go, right?
30:50
All of that makes sense. You're right.
30:52
It's vanilla dating, it's kinky dating.
30:54
It's that swiping mentality. I think that we just think we're
30:57
going to find whatever it is, especially since everything we
31:01
do in life now is so customized to us, it's understandable why
31:04
we think we're going to get it. Yes, We have so many options,
31:08
more now than ever. We think we can customize
31:10
people. Like you can customize your car,
31:12
you can customize your home, you can customize your phone.
31:15
It's not the same. This is a person.
31:18
I'm not going to lie though, I did think, well he is a plastic
31:21
surgeon so maybe he could customize someone but there's
31:23
like a lot you can't change. There is a lot and there's a lot
31:26
you wouldn't want to change too, right?
31:29
One of the things I found since I've been in this space is I've
31:33
dated different ages. I mean, I have like a 30 year
31:36
gap in age ranges that I've dated all different races,
31:41
height sizes, and each person has brought me a different
31:46
experience that I wouldn't have had if I lived it myself.
31:50
That's why I can write about so many different experiences
31:53
because I've been open to them all.
31:55
I've been open to what have you come to show me?
31:57
What am I going to write about today?
31:59
You know, and that's how I've approached it.
32:01
Yeah, and also something that I think more people should go on a
32:04
date with this mentality is there's going to be something
32:07
interesting about this person. Let me find it.
32:10
Because if you go in with the mission of their job isn't to
32:13
entertain you, Your job is to find out about them, be curious,
32:18
and then you'll learn something about them.
32:20
That's probably how you had so many experiences.
32:22
If you didn't go in curious, you're not open to learning.
32:25
The first person I met at one of these parties was actually a sub
32:30
to this powerful dumb woman. This is actually the story of my
32:33
book. And he was an older white male
32:35
with Gray hair slicked back. And he was on his knees next to
32:40
this dumb who had on a black leotard like pleather outfit
32:44
with a whip. And she was just like strikingly
32:47
gorgeous. But I was like, as I talked to
32:50
him, I was, I was so surprised that he was a sub.
32:54
And when he invited me to his home, he lived in like this
32:57
gated Manor. Like I pulled up at his home.
33:00
I'm like, whoa, he had jazz playing.
33:03
He gave me a charcuterie board of cheese and crackers.
33:06
And I'm like, is this the same guy that was on his knees with
33:09
this Dom at this party? Come to find out, he was a whole
33:12
switch would get to the house and he'd switched on me.
33:15
He's a Dom in this setting. Surprisingly, he was amazing.
33:22
If I had limited myself and said, oh, you're a sub, I'm not
33:26
interested in a sub. You know, a lot of them doms are
33:30
not interested in sleeping with Subs.
33:32
Now, I've always been clear when I came into the kink space, I
33:35
will do the kinky things, I'll do the BDSM things, but I like
33:39
to have sex. Like I need to be honest about
33:41
that. That's my what did you say the
33:43
difference between the kink and fetish was?
33:45
Fetish is a need to have. Like I've never orgasmed without
33:48
thinking about being punished. But kink?
33:50
It doesn't mean you don't need it, it just means that you are
33:53
capable of orgasming with other thoughts, experiences, feelings,
33:57
and you can be kinky and still need it every single time.
34:00
Well, I need to have sex. I don't know what category that
34:03
would be in. High sex drive and that is.
34:06
Because have that no matter what activities we're doing, I need
34:10
to do that. So I'm not going to be fulfilled
34:11
just going to a party, doing impact play, just going to
34:14
early. That's not going to do it for
34:16
me. Like we need to also do the
34:18
other things too. And I learned quickly from going
34:21
to some of these parties and I'm like, that's all y'all are doing
34:24
is just spanking each other and then what?
34:26
You know what I mean? Oh believe me, we're horny.
34:29
We're just not going to have sex all the way.
34:31
So I needed to find a community that that was also an option.
34:34
The community, a man has kink, BDSM and lifestyle.
34:37
So it's a combination. So in different rooms you have
34:40
people playing in different ways.
34:42
So there could be someone doing BDSM, someone doing impact play,
34:46
and then there's a room where people are just getting to it
34:50
and I'm in that room. OK.
34:53
I'm in that room. You will find me there OK and.
34:56
That's OK. Yeah, absolutely.
34:58
I think it's important to note also, so like, look, you had
35:02
something you wanted to find. Granted, you're in Atlanta.
35:04
And I know I have listeners thinking, well, she can talk.
35:07
She's in Atlanta, it's true. But you can travel to Atlanta
35:10
and you can have these experiences.
35:12
They exist. These parties, these spaces
35:14
exist. You don't have to just dial down
35:16
to this one type. You went and found the right
35:18
party for you. Yeah.
35:20
And the police? On Fetlife, even when I travel,
35:23
I found experiences. So I have stories in my book of
35:27
being in other States and finding someone on Fetlife and
35:31
inviting them to my hotel because I'm traveling and I'm
35:35
like, hey, this is the experience I want to have and I
35:37
had it. I'm smiling because I have also
35:39
had those experiences. Your stories now remind me of my
35:43
stories in my 20s. I knew I was monogamous, but I
35:46
was like, I will end up in another monogamous relationship
35:49
in my life. I was divorced.
35:50
Let me experience everything so I did I'd travel I'd go on
35:54
Fetlife. I would do all of the things but
35:58
I will say without the understanding of myself and the
36:01
boundaries that I have now in my 30s if I couldn't do it all over
36:05
again I would treat it differently.
36:06
I would have boundaries I would prioritize my pleasure.
36:09
I wouldn't shrink myself for fear of being judged or seen as
36:13
weak like my needs are my needs. I need to feel prioritized.
36:17
I need to be text the next day just check in with me.
36:19
We may never talk again, but do me that favor of checking in
36:22
with me to make sure I'm good, that makes me feel good.
36:25
I would shy away from that conversation in my 20s.
36:27
And looking back, there was a version of me, a younger
36:30
version, that if I could go back and talk to, I would say your
36:33
needs and desires and feelings matter enough for you to stick
36:36
up for them and ask for what you need.
36:38
And I don't know why, but part of the work I do now is because
36:41
I didn't know it back then and I want others to.
36:44
No, I agree. I'm in my 40s now, so I think
36:47
for me, I'm definitely sure of myself.
36:49
I'm going to own it and I'm going to advocate for myself and
36:53
I do prioritize, prioritize my pleasure and I don't care what
36:56
anybody else thinks. I've reclaimed these words that
36:58
people use slut hoe. I reclaimed all of those like
37:02
yes, I am and I'm prioritizing myself and I'm not sexually
37:06
repressed and I do have my needs met, right.
37:09
Patriarchy wants you to be in a box and wants to shrink you and
37:14
doesn't want you to understand your power and certainly doesn't
37:16
want you to wave your freak flag high and say this is who I am
37:20
and own it. And I'm saying I don't care what
37:23
you think. I'm doing what makes me happy.
37:25
Because the truth is, Amanda, every monogamous relationship
37:28
I've been in, I had to shrink myself.
37:30
I've never been in a relationship with someone who
37:33
had the capacity to hold me from a intimacy perspective.
37:37
I always wanted it more than them.
37:39
And they always threw that up in my face.
37:41
They've never been on my level spiritually, financially,
37:44
mentally, like they could never hold me.
37:47
They could never. I said I felt untouched.
37:49
That's why my book is called Touch.
37:51
I felt untouched and all of those situations, I didn't feel
37:54
seen, I didn't feel held. They didn't have the capacity to
37:58
hold me. And now I'm not looking for you
38:00
to hold me in those capacities. I'm telling you what I need and
38:04
that's all I need and I move on and that's it.
38:07
And that's it. That was an ultimate mic drop,
38:09
by the way. Like that was everything.
38:11
It is all of those things. I mean, I think one of the
38:13
things you said that was most touching there though was that
38:16
you moved on from looking for it and relying on that and you sort
38:21
of focused elsewhere and around the same level of satisfaction I
38:25
imagine that you would have found on what you're focusing
38:28
on, but it wasn't happening. So you were like, let me see
38:30
what I can work with here. It sounds like that's what
38:32
happened. That is what happened, and it's
38:35
choosing myself versus waiting to be chosen versus performing
38:39
to be chosen. I don't do any of that anymore.
38:41
This is what I'm into. This is what I want.
38:44
If it's not going to be you, it's going to be this next
38:46
person. It's OK.
38:47
You know what I mean? Yeah, it's not performative
38:50
anymore at all. Not performative for me.
38:53
That is the one piece where I'm wondering, like, how does that
38:56
match with your work as a matchmaker?
38:58
You're not being performative as a matchmaker, but for your
39:00
couples that you're putting together, how are you keeping
39:03
people grounded in? I think the mentality you have
39:06
in your approach and perspective should be universally adopted
39:09
and understood in order to find happiness.
39:11
My partner and I always say, you know, tend to your own garden
39:14
and someone will come look at it and be like, hey, I think our
39:17
gardens would work well together.
39:19
I think what you're explaining is sort of the same.
39:20
How are you in feeling that in your clients are making sure
39:22
you're working with people who understand that so they're
39:25
bringing their best self forward?
39:26
Yes. One of the things I do with my
39:29
female clients is we do a boudoir photo shoot and that
39:33
exercise in and of itself is so powerful because a lot of times
39:37
when women get in relationships, especially regarding sex, we ask
39:41
for the man to bring out our sexy.
39:43
We just come and you figure it out and you press the buttons
39:46
and figure it out. Within a boudoir photo shoot,
39:49
you have to see yourself as sexy.
39:51
You bring the sexy. You determine what looks good,
39:55
what turns you on. This is about you.
39:58
And in that exercise, I think that women open up more.
40:01
They always tell me like, Oh my God, I've never seen myself.
40:04
What do I look like in the bedroom?
40:06
What do I look like? My face is what do I look like?
40:08
You know, wearing lingerie. We don't look at ourselves.
40:10
We don't turn ourselves on. In this situation, you will.
40:14
And I think that changes your perspective when you meet with
40:17
your partner because then you can communicate.
40:19
This is what I need. This is what?
40:21
I want, if I'm being honest, I am definitely female centered
40:24
because that's who I am. I want to make sure that women
40:27
are not shrinking themselves, that they're showing up fully,
40:31
wholly, authentically who they are, and that they are getting
40:35
their needs met. You.
40:36
One statistic that enrages me is the fact that 85% of women do
40:40
not orgasm, when in fact we can orgasm in 14 different ways
40:44
multiple times a day. It enrages me that 85% of us are
40:49
not. And we're doing it first
40:51
themselves. I didn't even know that stat.
40:53
Like I'm so ingrained in the kink.
40:54
Is it like 85% of times we're having sex we're not coming?
40:58
Yes, women are not Oh my God, 85% of women do not have orgasm.
41:03
So that means they're married and just laying there and
41:06
performing and Owen and I and not reaching orgasm.
41:10
Oh my gosh, I am luckily not part of that. 85%.
41:15
But you know, I've always prioritized my pleasure in that.
41:19
Maybe the aftercare piece I wasn't vocal about, but you
41:23
know, I've gotten more than one compliment on how good I am at
41:25
giving directions because I might touch this, do this.
41:28
And I always compliment back. I was like, no, you're just a
41:30
great listener because, you know, I can give the directions.
41:33
It doesn't mean people are going to pay attention.
41:35
I think it's also societally we are not taught from a young age.
41:40
You know, men are taught, oh go have sex, like this is your
41:43
God-given right and also your purpose on earth is to spread
41:46
your seed. And then women are taught the
41:48
opposite. Yeah, you have to guard that.
41:51
It's almost like you don't pay attention to it yourself.
41:53
But I do love the boudoir photoshoot idea because you are
41:57
spot on. Women in general, and I see it
42:00
in my own coaching clients. They're in relationships.
42:02
I ask, well, what's your fantasy?
42:04
What turns you on? And I don't have fantasies.
42:06
And I think it's the same thing you're describing of we're just
42:10
not thinking. But they do.
42:12
It turns out like we talk. I'm like, you know, romance can
42:15
be a fantasy. Being wined and dined and taken
42:17
on a helicopter tour and then taken to a hotel room and fucked
42:21
in dirty ways, that can be a fantasy.
42:25
I'm going to blame the patriarchy too for this idea
42:27
that that can't be your fantasy because then you're just a gold
42:30
digger. I'm sorry, I'm not taking a 70
42:33
year old man's fantasy about a 30 year old or 25 year old woman
42:37
away from him. Why are we trying to take
42:39
women's away and shaming them and being gold diggers?
42:42
And most of the men don't even have any gold.
42:44
Let's just go there. You don't even have any gold.
42:47
We'll start with that. But no, I am very female
42:51
centered in that way because I don't think anybody is focused
42:54
on us. So we need to be, yeah,
42:56
especially if I'm going to have a business as a female, I'm
42:59
going to prioritize females like that's just how I am.
43:02
And I don't think we are prioritized sexually, you know,
43:05
outside of the kink space, of course.
43:06
I don't think we are prioritized and I think we should.
43:09
Yeah, I even think within the kink space they're doing the
43:12
work a lot better. But the kink space is not some
43:15
magical existence either, where everything is just pretty and
43:19
works the way we want society to.
43:21
You still got to be on your guard, you still got to be
43:23
vetting people. You still have to do those
43:25
things. And I think that
43:26
disproportionately effects and harms women in terms of they're
43:30
the ones who have to be on guard.
43:31
That's what I'm really saying. It's tough to both be in your
43:34
power and do it, but also be aware.
43:36
And I think finding that balance, it's so important.
43:39
That's why I bring it up. I hate to be like a negative
43:41
Nancy about it, but like, you kind of have to do both.
43:44
And I see you handling it well. But it also comes with that,
43:48
like I said, in my 20s, that's not who I was.
43:50
And I don't know. Were you different in your 20s?
43:53
I've been now 20s. Yeah, No, I was certainly
43:56
different because I grew up very religious in a Christian
44:00
household. So I had to unpack.
44:02
I hadn't unpacked that at 20 yet.
44:04
So today Shay is absolutely that's unpacked.
44:07
That's not even a thought that my 20 year old self still
44:10
struggled with. This is wrong.
44:12
I'm fornicating if I want to do this.
44:14
This is wrong. And I was dealing with shame and
44:17
constantly repenting, but I was doing the things I.
44:21
Just constantly repenting, always asking for freedom.
44:24
And now I have the freedom of that's not even a part of my
44:27
world anymore, and I just get to do the things.
44:30
It's like an element of control and I openly talk about how I am
44:34
religious, but I was lucky enough like I found a church for
44:38
myself that never made me feel shame about what I wanted or
44:41
anything. And I did that as an adult.
44:43
I went through my whole believe not believe thing.
44:45
But like, I think if you were being controlled and told you're
44:48
wrong or you're doing it wrong and you're feeling shame because
44:52
of the things other people are telling you and it's not
44:54
yourself, I think that's worth looking at who the influences
44:57
are in your life. That's right, and I don't want
44:59
to offend anyone. No matter what you believe, I
45:03
think there's room for all of us.
45:04
There's room for people, no matter what they believe, no
45:07
matter what they're into, no matter what they desire.
45:10
There's room for all of us. As long as we can cohabitate
45:12
with respect and love and it's fine.
45:15
Yeah, exactly. It's the respect piece.
45:17
I think that is super important. I know I have single kinky
45:23
people, or maybe they're in a relationship but looking to open
45:26
up and find their kinky match. I want to understand more of
45:30
what you're looking for from people when they come to and
45:33
they say this is what I'm looking for.
45:34
What are you looking for in them?
45:36
How do you pick your clients and say you are right for upper
45:39
echelon matchmaking? Well, one upper echelon is
45:42
pretty pricey, so sometimes people can't afford.
45:45
So I have a $10,000 package. I have a $20,000 package.
45:48
The $10,000 package comes with 10 introductions.
45:51
The $20,000 package comes with 20.
45:53
So I want to start with that because I want to make sure that
45:55
people understand what I'm talking about from a price point
45:58
perspective. Can I also just cut in and say
46:01
that from matchmaking services? I know and my clients have used
46:04
some before. That is completely standard.
46:06
I am not sitting here thinking oh I can't believe it.
46:10
I understand your clientele are of a certain type of person, but
46:14
I will also say that I do think that's completely reasonable and
46:17
nothing you just said shocked me.
46:18
So anyway, please continue. Yes, I just want to make sure.
46:21
But, and I don't want people thinking, oh, it's so expensive.
46:23
No, that is the cost of services like this.
46:28
Otherwise you're on Tinder. Yes, Tinder is not going to
46:31
customize for you. So one of the things that I
46:33
pride myself on, not only do I customize like to your specific
46:37
kink, what are you into? Like that is a customized.
46:41
That means I'll have to go to these events.
46:43
Let's say you're into shatting and scatting, and I'm not, but I
46:46
have to go to these events or people, people who are into
46:53
that. No, seriously, let's say you're
46:55
into being a furry. I got to involve myself in this
46:58
community to find someone for you or you want pet clay,
47:02
whatever your kinks are, it's my job to work into that world and
47:07
find compatibility for you. People are not going to do that
47:10
like that customized specific approach.
47:13
And so for some people, it's their fantasy to also be married
47:16
to a fellow furry. And we get dressed up and we go
47:18
to these conferences and we do this together.
47:20
Well, I got to do that for you. I got to go to these conferences
47:23
and find these people. So it is a customized approach.
47:26
And also it's being with someone that's not judging you, not
47:30
yucking your Yum. I mean, as long as you're
47:32
talking about consenting adults, then I don't have any links.
47:36
You know, we're all adults. If it's legal, I'm OK with it.
47:41
My rules exactly. I always say consensual between
47:45
adults and legal where you are because I want you to be safe
47:48
and not get arrested. You're good to go.
47:50
You're good to go. And again, I told you I do the
47:53
sex therapist, the regular therapist.
47:54
I also have like astrological compatibility because I want you
47:58
to know your sun, moon and rising and also your being a
48:02
sign which tells me how you are in relationship.
48:04
So I like to do all of that as well.
48:06
And then the dating coaching before I do my matchmaking.
48:10
But to me, an ideal client is open minded.
48:13
You don't already have in mind the container in which this
48:16
specific person with this specific kink needs to come
48:19
into. You're open, like you were open
48:21
to traveling. If I found this person who has
48:24
this beliefs, this kink and this value, I can go and do it.
48:28
If you're like that, you'd be excellent.
48:30
And also understanding that if you have a specific very niche
48:35
kink and you live in the middle of the country and there's
48:39
nobody like that, I've got to find them.
48:41
It might not be two weeks, so it might not be a month.
48:44
So also being realistic about the time, because if you have a
48:48
very niche kink and it's a must have, I have to have somebody
48:52
who's into this thing, then I have to have the time to go find
48:55
them. And I have a client who
48:57
literally flies me to different conferences to meet those
49:00
people. Like I know these people will be
49:02
at this particular conference or this particular.
49:04
He flies me to meet those people.
49:06
I love him. I.
49:07
Totally see why I would love that client.
49:09
What I want to understand is why is he not flying to them?
49:11
Socially, back to what we were. Socially awkward, That's a blind
49:15
spot for me. I'm like, I want to see them, I
49:17
want to lay eyes on them. I might still have hired A
49:19
matchmaker, but I'd be right next to the matchmaker being
49:21
like, like find out if they're the right person.
49:24
Sometimes he's there, but he's awkward.
49:28
He knows where they will be, but he's not going to.
49:31
And he's a millionaire. He'll be in those places and not
49:34
open his mouth and not introduce himself.
49:36
Not no, because he's afraid. I really like this approach.
49:39
I think it's really smart to go down that route because it does
49:43
require that tailoring. I want to contextualize it a
49:46
little bit. Yes, I did meet someone at an
49:48
event. I had gone to seven of the
49:51
weekend long parties, multiple king parties like that weren't
49:55
specifically for my fetish. I had spent thousands of dollars
49:59
overtime over like a two year period.
50:01
And when I match up the investment, plus time spent on
50:04
dates with the wrong people, plus my time trying to find all
50:07
of this, I'm like, I could have chosen a different route.
50:10
But as I say, I like to talk to people.
50:11
So like I'm a different type but just makes sense.
50:15
I'm not going to lie though, I think another year of being
50:18
single and looking I would have also started considering a
50:22
matchmaker because I have the flexibility to move and be
50:27
somewhere else. But as I said, my priority and
50:29
having help someone in my corner to help me find that number one
50:33
priority one, one and two kinken values that is worth it.
50:37
That is worth it. I think so too.
50:39
And my clients just seeing them happy because we all want to
50:42
feel singing and we all want to feel loved and nobody wants to
50:45
feel like you're weird for wanting this like and you're
50:48
not. You know, like I said, if the
50:50
creator created you to have the desired, you have a counter
50:53
pride out there. They also have that desire.
50:55
Yes. Also you mentioned something
50:58
about astrology. I'm like, well, I would also
51:00
definitely pay someone to exclude every male Pisces from
51:04
the pool because I'll never ever date a male Pisces again.
51:08
Yeah, male Pisces, I'm coming for you.
51:10
What's your astrological sign? Libra sun but Virgo rising moon
51:16
and I think Venus. All Virgo.
51:18
I have to check on the Venus. I don't know why I think that,
51:22
but yeah, Virgo in a lot of ways now I'm missing that Type A
51:26
personality, Virgo. But I have this terrible mix of
51:29
not Type A, but still a perfectionist.
51:32
So constantly beating myself up like only a Virgo would.
51:35
I emailed you to be like, hey, what are we talking about in an
51:38
hour? You see what I mean?
51:40
That's why I was like, no, she's definitely not Virgo.
51:43
I'm not that kind of Virgo, that's my Libra type.
51:45
I'm like it'll all be fine, but I'm forever and optimist.
51:48
I think everything works out great.
51:49
But I'll tell you that when you started saying about the
51:51
placements and I'm like yes, actually there's something to
51:55
it. And my lieber ask keeps falling
51:57
for Pisces men and I told everyone stop letting me do it.
52:01
But of course I did. Too many to count.
52:03
Your new man as a Pisces. No, I actually learned my lesson
52:06
in June of last year. Yeah, June of last year I was
52:09
like, no, for real, it's done. I'm a Capricorn and the one sign
52:14
I do not like in relationships is Gemini's.
52:17
I call them Jimmy Lies, but I will tell you now that I'm on
52:20
this path of just prioritizing pleasure, I can play with them.
52:24
I'm not looking for a relationship right now, so the
52:26
playing is fine. Nobody's excluded from playing.
52:29
I just don't want anything more than that.
52:31
I won't even play with the Pisces.
52:32
No, I'm kidding. I'm not asking that level of
52:34
detail with them, but I'm talking ex-husband, ex fiance,
52:38
three separate boyfriends, possibly even more.
52:42
But I'm like, I'm done. You just got to learn your
52:44
lesson. But real quick, I do want to
52:45
double check if you could just hold on for one second and while
52:48
I pull up an app and check my chart real quick.
52:51
Yep, they're all Virgo. Everything's Virgo.
52:54
Yep. Wow.
52:55
I think that's the stellium. If I'm not mistaking, you might
52:58
have a Virgo stellium. It's something that makes the
53:00
stellium, so correct us if I'm wrong.
53:02
But does that make me harder to date in relationships?
53:05
No, I'm not going to see the thing about an astrology.
53:09
I don't ever think that somebody is wrong for each other.
53:13
But again, I have an abundance mindset.
53:15
So from my perspective, there are there are a lot of people
53:18
that would fit with you, we just have to find them.
53:21
Yeah, and to be clear, I found a Sagittarian who I was never
53:24
expecting that, but I did find one very happy.
53:26
I just think it's funny because I'm like, there are a lot of
53:29
people, but I think my abundance mindset led me to all the
53:31
Pisces. But anyway.
53:33
I'm glad you found someone though that's compatible in all
53:36
those other ways. Thank you, but let me tell you
53:39
if I end up single again and I hope not to.
53:41
Shay, you have been such a delight.
53:43
You are like a ray of sunshine. It has been so fun chatting with
53:48
you and I think your clients are extremely lucky.
53:51
And anyone listening, if you've been single for a long time,
53:55
even just from talking to Shay I can tell she's the real deal.
53:57
If you have been single and you are struggling and this is
54:00
important to you, invest. So, Shay, where can everyone?
54:04
Find you. You can find me online at
54:06
upperechelonmatchmaking.com or on Instagram at Shay Primus
54:11
Matchmaker. And thank you so much, Amanda.
54:14
Thank you for your time. Thank you for this open, honest
54:17
discussion. I feel like I've been able to be
54:19
authentically me this whole interview.
54:22
That is always what I strive for.
54:24
Thank you. And we are going to have you
54:25
back in October. You have to be in touch.
54:28
I want a copy of the book. I want to read it and I want to
54:30
discuss it. So October, watch this space.
54:33
All right. Thank you so much.
54:34
Thank. You so much.
54:37
If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
54:40
a review and share it with anyone who might find it
54:42
interesting. And if you have any questions or
54:44
topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, feel free to
54:47
reach out e-mail info@thekingconsultant.com.
54:51
Until next time, keep on kinking on.