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The Crazy Experiment That Took Wine to the Ocean Floor · Whisky Unfinished

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: So you're producing a documentary about tasting wine at different levels of depths in the sea.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: And you're doing it in a submersible.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I went to three different depths, 100, 2 and 3.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: 300 is incredible experience because it's pitch black.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: You see literally nothing.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: We've had a little incident at 200 meters.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, tell us more about that.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Simply parameter started to showing us a very dangerous area under 200 meters.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I needed to improvise.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and then we got three different results.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Today we have a new friend of mine, Boyan Radulovich.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Boyan is the general manager of Lynx Concepts here in Hong Kong.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: He's also certified court of master Somalier.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: This is a Battle Blair task sample.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: What drove you to take on this project?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: What's the story you're trying to tell?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: We know what happened in the airline, we know exactly the pressure, the humidity, the noise, and we know that for 60, 70 years already.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't know other environments.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Underwater is just starting to.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: This is a North British 1991.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: The future of tourism, between tourism.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: What's the bigger vision here?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: People more looking to spend money for the experience rather than buying luxury goods.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: The submersible that they rent, they are producing the platform that you can go up to two or three hundred meters and do the cultural event.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: These two are the wines that you took down.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: For someone listening right now who might be interested in becoming some money, what advice do you give?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, after one shot of uh incredible whiskey, I may start talking more than I supposed to.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole idea of whiskey chief, raise the glass from Hong Kong next to the Scottish cats to where it's brim.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let the numbers be still right in the story.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Whiskey unfinished.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, Rakesh here, the Whiskey Chief.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Firstly, thank you so much for watching this.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you could like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskeys to you and keep doing this show the best we can.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Whiskey Unfinished, where the whiskey's never finished, and neither is the conversation.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Today we have a new friend of mine, but I feel like we're gonna be long-term friends, Boyan Radulovich.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Did I get it right?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Boyan Radulovich.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just enjoying saying it.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Boyan is the general manager of Lynx Concepts here in Hong Kong.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: He's also certified court of master somaliers, uh certified level.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna have a very interesting conversation today about a documentary you've created.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's why we've got, as you may notice, some wines here as well.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: We're also gonna dive into a couple of whiskeys, because obviously that's what the show's about.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: But we're gonna dive into a bit more about the world of wine in Hong Kong, what it's like training Somaliers, your documentary, of course, which is going uh which is hopefully coming live soon.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the theme for for today.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: And we'll do some ratings, of course, as well.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll start off and let's talk about your documentary, right?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: So you're producing a documentary about tasting wine at different levels of depths of this in the sea, right?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: So 100 meters, 200 meters, 300 meters.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty wild, and you're doing it in a submersible.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and you did it before there was a big incident with submersibles, thanks, thankfully.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: What drove you to take on this project?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and and what what's the story you're trying to tell?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, first, thank you very much for the invitation.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you need to teach me a little bit about whiskey because yes, happy to.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned to you, I'm not even properly drinking water, I only drink wine.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, in the very beginning, that's not supposed to be documentary, not supposed to be a movie, it's just supposed to be a research paper of something that is going to happen much later, which uh we're gonna probably speak about this in season number three.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, I would love to have you back.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I need to a little bit keep uh confidential and uh intriguing, yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I end up in uh in one very weird um um program research papers, and uh when I hit the wall, I didn't know how to move forward, so I needed to look outside of my box, you know, I like my mind, and uh start searching for the new adventures.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And me coming from hospitality business, I'm 20 years in the wine business as well.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Simply, I needed to uh to see what is new coming up, you know, and uh what's new coming up.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: To push the boundaries, to push the completely boundaries, yes, something that nobody ever tried.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it took me five days non-sleeping.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: My wife was not happy, you know.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, and then suddenly, because I also judge for several different organizations, um, I'm you know, like uh rating the wines, and we usually do for airline as well.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we know what's happening in airline, we know exactly the pressure, we know the the humidity, the noise, everything is happening, and we know that for 60, 70 years already.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but we don't know other environments.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So at one point I was watching at YouTube one of the famous astronauts who was actually 500 meters under the under the water in in nuclear submarine, and he actually shaked the Coca-Cola.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's Henry Lowe, yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he opened, there is no explosion.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So then I started thinking, okay, what happening?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: What happened really under the water, you know.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was reading more further, you know, when Bloomberg was talking about this that extreme tourism, I didn't even hear about before, about extreme tourism, and then I I heard that actually the industry is is very uh powerful, that people more looking to spend money for the experience rather than buying the luxury goods lately.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's when I started doing the research papers.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, my original was original mission was to go down and to taste and to see what is happening, but actually, I cannot execute by myself.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I need to have one more person, and we need to measure two different things.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, if one person goes under the water, the other needs to stay up because we don't know through which changes we are going through.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right, because there's a lot of different exactly, it's it's a first time right.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: So, you so the idea from a scientific point of view, and it sounds like you consulted, I think, some Yale professors and yes, yes, yes, and Oxford as well.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of a lot of scientists were involved in making sure that the experiment delivered without with trying to keep all other variables consistent.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: What is the impact of is it is it pressure that basically we're testing, or is it many more things that many more things?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, pressure is not uh at all there.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So insubmersible, as what we are sitting in right now, it's uh it's very same environment.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a little more claustrophobic.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not for me.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh I'm okay with that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, no, me being uh almost two meters, it's very difficult, you know.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh that curve I'm actually hitting with my head.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's only three seaters, yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh but that uh Yale and Oxford professor, they came a little bit later after we already done.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, but it's help us to to understand perception, to understand uh how everything communicates, you know.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, there is there is definitely important subject to talk, it's in between objective and subjective, yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So now the interesting thing, and that's gonna be also a story in the in documentary.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting thing that definitely whatever we taste, even this whiskey or whatever, it's actually based on subjective.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: But uh think about when Master Somelli or somebody who goes for the for the exam or for competition, think about how he can actually get to the result if it's subjective, but he gets to the blind tasting correct results.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: That means that there is some sort of the trained brain and objectivity.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So of course, we are not machines, we are not artificial noses, but you need to build not the LTS.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, like uh after all the experience, I wish to go back to three or five hundred meters and bring the artificial nose to see what they would notice.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, what they will notice, yes, because we didn't do that aspect.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely, you know, we went.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I went to three different depths, 100, 2, and 3.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: 300 is incredible experience because it's uh pitch black, so you you see literally nothing, and uh and then we got three different results.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we had a little incident at 200 meters.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, tell us more about that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, or what you can, obviously.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's uh yeah, it's gonna be seen over there.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um simply parameters started to showing us a very dangerous area under 200 meters, and this didn't happen at 100, and also everything was tailor-made, everything was very difficult to manage, it's super small space.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I needed to improvise the table, which I manage is very ugly, you will see.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's it's through the you know cupboard, whatever.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then uh I needed to secure my glass, I needed to have the wines next to me that is constantly under the proper temperature, and then I had these specific stoppers.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that stopper has actually it's uh inside to actually pump the oxygen out.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So my colleague Johan, who stays, he's the master somelier, so he stays on uh on top.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: He tasted all wines before I will go the first dive.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I went down to 100 meters, uh, then I open one, you know, serving the glass, just close but don't pump because I don't have much time.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it takes me 30 minutes to go through all wines.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I have 10 wines.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: 10 and how and let's so let's why don't we taste the first wine?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Tell us a bit more about how you chose these wines, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many wines you could have chosen to do this with.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Technically, that's fourth wine because we had one champagne, three whites, five reds, okay, and one fortified wine.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: And these two are original vintage are the wines that you you took down, right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: So let's see.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they're they're different bottles, obviously, but they are the same wines that you brought.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So this is gonna represent the third white wine, okay, which is the most full-body white wine.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when we make the choice about wines, so definitely, you know, we needed uh champagne, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we have one champagne.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: We needed three white wines in three different categories: light, medium body, and full body.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Then when it comes to red wines, we had light, which you're gonna again taste, it's a first red, then we had uh medium minus, then medium wine, then medium plus and full body, but that full body was also bi dynamic under the screw cap.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to understand everything.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, yes.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then we had uh port as well, the fortified wine, yes.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us about this first wine, tell us about it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the first wine, it's uh I mean, look, I I'm looking in both of these wines as my kids.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot tell you which one I like more, and they are for different occasions.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: But the first wine is the is the winery called Hyde de Vilaine, is the uh American from Carneros, it's established in 2000, relatively young winery, but is uh co-owning between uh great viticulturist called Larry Hyde, uh American viticulturist, and uh the great great producer of Roman Equanti uh Aubert de Vilaine.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And this is the 2000 chart, 100% chart exactly.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I had this uh this wine at the at the submersible.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I still believe that this wine caused me the biggest trouble in submersible.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think uh it's because of the explosion of the uh aromas and everything?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I'm getting the explosion of aroma.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you're the master Somalier.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm you know you're uh you're a certified Somalier.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh talk me through this wine.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a very uh full-body aromatic wine.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's showing a lot of uh riped peach, these kind of like stone fruits with a touch of the of the um uh tropical fruits as well.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I get a lot of lemon zest.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's yeah, it's it's more in the candy, yes, exactly.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in the candied way, uh candied, like uh lemon zest.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it went through the French barrels, so it's it's American wine, and uh it's coming from Carneros that is more cooler climate, but it's produced by the wonderful winemaker, 31 to 3 years old, uh Guillaume from Bordeaux.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Alright.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine Bordeaux guy producing uh Burgundy-style wine in the middle of the Carneros.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And interesting story about this winery, it's uh the vintage of 2019 of Chardonnay was awarded as the second best wine of wine spectator.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and uh Heidi Vilain only has three full-time employees.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow!
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you have general manager James, who is the general manager and cleaner, and forklift, and everything else, and he's a dear dear friend.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: And this is obviously very intentional, they want to keep it that way.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so is it about being boutique or is it about just everybody being involved in everything?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's both ways, actually.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, both ways.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Aubert, you know, his uh definitely priority is Roman Econ T for him, DRC, but uh it's not just his face at that wine.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So as soon as he finished the final blending of uh DRC, he will actually go to Hyde Villaine and make sure that's so so obvious.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: You explained a little bit, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: There was champagne, there was whites, reds, and and pork.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: But within that, let's say you're picking this is the this is the third white, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: So this is the full body, most full body white that you talk about.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Even in that category, you had hundreds of options, maybe thousands of options.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: How what was the selection process?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is was it just gut feel or it's two relationship or what what that's number two, okay.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Number one that needs to represent the school example of their area and their indication of the grape.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I'm not gonna take full body chardonnay that had some nothing against that style of the production, but uh needs to be typical because this is for research purposes, it's not for enjoying purposes.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: And what were some of the reactions with the 10 um uh chateau vineyard owners when you called them up and you said, Hey, I'm doing this, I'm gonna take your wine down 300 meters.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: What did they say?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, great, good luck, or were they interested?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: What what what was the reaction you got?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't call everyone, but most of them I did.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So most of them are, you know, like um I didn't want to choose everything that looks like it's only Link's concept portfolio, even though I could execute it Link's concept, right?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but uh simply I wanted really to have more diversity.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, like uh of course Heidi Vilain, uh then uh the wine that is not, for example, belongs to my portfolio, which is Brundelmeier from Austria, that was the second white wine.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Andreas Wikhoff, which is master of wine, he's the general manager.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, he's in the movie as well.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Jean-Charles Kaas, who is the Chateau Linch Baj, who is one of the greatest supporters of this, is in the movie as well.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Louis Latour, that we're gonna taste a little bit later, they ever since they won one of the biggest supporters.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean that's fantastic that everyone's supporting.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: And let's go back to this concept of the future of tourism, extreme, extreme tourism.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: What's the bigger vision here?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: What are you going after with extreme tourism?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Do you believe that we're going to be at some point in the future living underwater or spending a lot more time at those depths?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're gonna need to know how to drink wine, how to eat, how to do all the things that we would do normally.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what I'm catching here?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not having intention really living under the water.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: I love the water.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we might have to if the robots control the world, you know, to we might have to hide away from them so that at least in the water they they rust, right?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that might be our only last hiding hiding spot if the world is gonna end in about five years' time, as people predict right now.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm okay, then just let's you know let's drink more.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you take your favorite whiskey, I take favorite wine.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, you know, like um uh we know more about space than what we know under the water, you know.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: We actually have no idea about what's happening in the ocean, yes.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And what even Bob Ballard, great Bob Ballard, I mean I never met that gentleman, and I wish, but uh he said this is like uh the largest museum combined, you know, like uh what we can find down, and we will maybe in our life we will not find out really what's happening under.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: But for example, uh the submersible that I rent, and I went to execute this project, it's located in Holland, and they are very adventurous.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they are producing the platform that you can go up to two or three hundred meters for 120 people, 80 people, and do the corporate event.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's uh you can rent as a wedding or a team building or whatever you want, but we don't know what's happening under.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, and also I would love to make clear I'm not the first person who tastes wine under the water, I'm probably the first who approach a more serious way to evaluate about the scientific approach, but you know, like um every nuclear submarine uh that stays six months under the water, they're drunk almost every night.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: But probably not on these quality wines.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know that they have very quality quality food, yeah, for sure.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: They have mission instances.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: I assume it's all just you know a lot of vodka down there.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Beers, yes, yes, yes.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's you know, like it's definitely an area that is growing so much.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you see, like those platforms are going to be a lounge.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but for me, underwater is just starting point.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: And have you been always this adventurous or this wanting to push the boundary?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is is this, you know, when you told me about this, I thought obviously super fascinating.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: And and I don't know you that well.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: We actually only only met recently.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm curious myself, is this you?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: Is is is this something you've always been doing, or is this something that's developed more recently where now you're wanting to let's say push the envelope or find uh more extreme ways of of challenging or or or even trying new things?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I wish I wish you could ask my parents about this.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what would they say?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think the amount of stress they had with me and all through through all this childhood.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I and I've met your kids, so I think it's coming back to you, right?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're another terrorist.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: So you've always been this way, you've always wanted to push the envelope.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, of course.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I love, I love um because I'm originally from hospitality uh background, so I love upgrading the experiences, you know, even during the service time, which I miss heavily service time, so I'm six years now in a trade business, and I really sometimes when I have a wine dinner where I'm supposed to be a speaker, I'm dying to grab the bottle and go to serve, you know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's in your DNA.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yes.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: And let's talk about that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: How did you get into this?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: So uh humble beginnings grew up.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, tell us more where you grew up, and through Ireland made your way here, right?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: So tell tell me a bit more about that.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I had completely different uh different vision of my career.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I was very into the military, into the army, and I realized very fast it's not for me.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm not just a salute person, so I and this is in Serbia.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: In Serbian Serbia, and with this, you you volunteered or you were part of the I was part, yes.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's for some period of time.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but I really love people, as you can see, I love speaking a lot, talking.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually started working for Hyat Regency Belgrade, and that time I didn't actually drink alcohol, I was a lot into sport, and I didn't even uh speak English.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I could understand, but I didn't speak.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh at one point in 2005, one of our managers came to me and said, Let's go for some area course, it's gonna be an English in English language.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's nothing.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I have no, you know, it doesn't come to my mind.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Were you a wine drinker at that time?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Zero, not even alcohol drinker, not even alcohol drinker.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: And somebody said let's go first in A course.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Where was the course?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Serbia.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: It was in Serbia.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they brought the guy from Switzerland who's gonna train us.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was strongly against that, you know.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they they told me, like, come just for the first class.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, so my probably the biggest strength is history and geography.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So these two things I'm I'm insane.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, the very first class in half an hour was about the history of the wine.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: 8,000 years ago, Georgia and all these things.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was you were hooked, new universe, you know, it's something that I I never thought about this.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And 21 years after, so whatever I missed in my teenage time to drink, you know, 15 to 20, today I'm very well catched up.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: You've made up for it.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's very well catch up, and then that and so that was the beginning of the of wanting to become a Somali yourself and the service.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: You had bit a few different jobs in Ireland, yes, I was including some security, yes.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was full-time uh working as a junior Somalia, but I was uh part-time uh yeah bouncer.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: You've been to Ireland, yes.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've been to Ireland, been to Dublin, yeah.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So whoever whoever knows Dublin, so I was uh on the side door of Turk's head.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, it was amazing.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: A lot more Guinness than wine, I'm assuming.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, yeah, I didn't much.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I was still in the wine.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you've always been yeah, you've been very focused on why you mentioned to me you don't really drink whiskey, you don't even drink water.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just water when when my wife is chasing.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: When required.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I can do gin tonic and I can do Negronis.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well we're gonna try some whiskeys later, and I think I I'll I'll guide you through it like to guide me to the wine.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Whiskey unfinished.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you tell us about this second wine here?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this looks lovely.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the second wine, it's uh 100% of Pinot Noir.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So Pinot Noir is the most uh sophisticated, fragile grape producing the most expensive wines in the world, especially from that area.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that this is the most expensive, but it's one of my favorite, definitely.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: So this is coming from Maison Louis Latour, which is uh you know 12 generations since 1797, and uh they purchased this Corton Grancy Project.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Property in, if I'm not mistaken, 1892, together with uh seller from the Grancy family, and together with a big part of the Corton uh Corton Hill, which is including Corton Grand Cru Red that we are drinking now, and uh Corton Chardoman as well, which is like South Exposure 2018 again.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, beautiful vintage.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, right.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a pretty warm vintage in Burgundy.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh was a plenty of the juices, so now we are almost running out of this vintage.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to secure on the side because I mean I I could just nose this forever.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is exactly this is just this you're getting obviously a lot of the fruits, but it's so delicate.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's so the Latour family and and entire organization of the um of the winery first is dear friends, so they are uh very generous people, and I had a chance to um drink with them some 1981, some other vintages, you know, of uh from the cellar, and it's phenomenal.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Take us to as a psalm, go ahead.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: What is this wine?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is what so this wine, it's uh you mean in terms of the flavor?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: The taste profile, the nose, what you're getting.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's a very I don't get the chance to hear it live, you know, this way, so it's exciting.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I like when I'm explaining, I like explaining more understandable enough.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: Fair enough.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you know, like uh many of the Pinot Noir, they are based on strawberry, raspberry, these kind of flavors.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you have a touch of a little bit of um some you know dark cherry, uh sour cherry, that's mean that something happened during the production.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely get that here.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I get so yeah, it may be it may be portion of the whole bunch, it may be extended maceration, it it can be many different things.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: But this is definitely one of the very elegant uh Pinot Noir from Grand Cru soil.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Grand Cru is a very small production in Burgundy, it's only 33 designated vineyards in entire Burgundy, and actually Louis Latour is the largest owner of Grand Cru area in Burgundy.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but they are also you know 12 generations, and so this was the first red wine in submersible.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we had some uh I mean we have results about every single wine which is gonna be in the in the in the movie.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, cheers, yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sound is very important as well.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, cheers.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is my voice coming back or not yet?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: You're good, you're good.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we have powerful mics.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh this uh that that's an amazing, amazing, amazing burgundy because I think uh now we're drinking it what eight years uh since it since it was uh bottled.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's I think in it in its window.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you I think obviously this would last for a long, long time, but I love how smooth the finish is.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm more sensitive.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: Some different people are sensitive to different things.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Some people are more sensitive in the nose, some the first palette.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's always the finish.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: And what I love about this wine is it lingers for 30 to 60 seconds.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, you're still getting that that beautiful.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: So sorry, go ahead.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, sorry, but uh you know, like um as we are in Hong Kong, uh Hong Kong is a very humid city, it's a very uh uh it's very easy to increase the temperature of any wine.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, Pinot Noir is perfectly if you start from 14 degrees, it's a little too cold, but you know, after two, three minutes it's it will get to the right temperature.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, look, so Eric, you're uh and I was trying to get you to do it earlier.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't want to do it, you might have to still.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: So the so most most people watching this have probably seen at least uh some of or at least uh a glimpse of the the psalm, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: The psalm, the documentary psalm that's been very, very popular, right?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's there's a lot of politics, there's a lot of pressure, even just you know the pathway to becoming a Somalier takes a lot of practice, um, right, and a lot of there's a particular framework and a way to say this is ta color, this is ta-da, nose, this is ta-da palette.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: How accurate did you feel that that documentary really was to your life experience?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh first I I really love this documentary.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's phenomenally done, but I think that's because of the time pressure of the of the length of the movie, I think they could still say even more brutal things what is happening inside.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm gonna let you say those brutal things now.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Go ahead.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's just like uh it's just you know, uh diploma is very nice when you achieve, especially advanced or or master sumeri, which I don't have, because uh my my main colleague in the movie uh doesn't want to train me to become, so he's gonna probably watch this.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's uh he's very hard on me and uh he's very rude to me as well.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Which is part of the training, as far as I understand.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: It is kind of uh a hazing part of it, right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, but really you need to you need to put all your focus, you know, like uh and uh it's not that it's not possible, but you may faster achieve your dream while you are not yet married and having a family because it's really time consuming, is is crazy.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and all these tastings, you know, like it's it's you really need to go in the bed thinking of it and wake up thinking of it.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: So was there any points in in your career and when you were studying and all of this that maybe you thought, ah, this is this is not for me, or were you always motivated, no, I'm not always focused.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: I was always you knew this is what you wanted.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love I I daily research still.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: And what is it like training?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because you do a lot of training, now you told me today you uh in fact earlier today you did two different I had a master class.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you had you had a master class.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: What do you get out of training and what's that experience like?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: What I get personally, it's it's a huge benefit because I keep refreshing my my mind and you know my memory, and uh while I'm setting the the the PowerPoint, you know, you still need to go through research and you actually get to see all new updates.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's just keep you keep you up to date all the time.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I generally I really love inspiring people, you know, to uh to shift, especially from position of junior waiter or waiter to become some alias.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: Are you noticing anything in this next generation that's different than your generation or our generation?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say when you were coming through that same path, what's the difference now?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think today it's uh much easier to get information, but again, you still need to do your part of the job.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right, I can have yeah, I write all the reports, but it doesn't mean you know the information.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if you if you find a way how you're gonna keep this in your mind, then you are in the in the right way.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, definitely even in my time, just a few years ago, I had a plenty of possibility to get information.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine in 1978 when Brian Julian, who is the everything in court of Master Sumer, when he's supposed to become MS, like he needed to run all around the world to uh get the to get the books, yeah, uh to catch any of the winemakers from New Zealand, he was in UK.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how he's gonna know about New Zealand if he doesn't talk to people.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine that and all the way until 2005 was was much more difficult.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: And have the exams gotten more difficult, you feel?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I well, that's what's supposed to be.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I support that.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: That they should get more difficult because the candidates now have easier access to information.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: So so what should be more difficult?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the theory part or what what what should be more difficult in your well, whatever I say now, I'm shooting in my own length because if I if I go if I want further, you know, to go further.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think anybody from the court of Master Somalia is gonna watch this.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're okay.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's a whiskey podcast.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Let's hope, yes.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: But what's your view on what should happen?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um no, it's actually, you know, like it's pretty difficult already.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh it's very difficult.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but there are you know, updates of appellations happen every single year, you know, like uh and they are really up to that.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think theory is pretty well done on what they are doing.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I cannot actually say about MS exam because I never attend MS exam for the uh I did attend advanced, failed twice.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Again, thanks to my best friend uh from the movie and a couple others from the movie as well, by the way.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, like uh I think pretty much they did very well what what is what is happening.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: What I feel that it can be differently done is to update the first two uh two steps, which is introductory and certified.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I think this is so for someone listening right now who might be interested in becoming a Somalier, um, or eventually, hopefully one day, maybe even a master somalier.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: What advice do you give to someone like that?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: You do a lot of these trainings, or what would you say to somebody who's who's maybe let's say interested in wine but doesn't know if they want a career in that?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first be curious, you know.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's starting point, you know, and taste as much as possible and try to attend as much as possible tastings, you know.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love personally going from restaurant to restaurant and do the trainings for non-someliors.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I like on that very easy way, you know, to to approach to them.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And easy way is let's say, for example, if I'm going to train you about wine number one, so all information what I need you to remember and to understand that you can pass to to uh to final guest is what's the grape variety, what's the name of the producer, where it's coming from, what's the body, and what's the food and wine pairing?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually very you know, we're talking about that's the easy phrase.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Chardonnay, Hidevelain, California or Carnero, Snappa, whatever you want to mention.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh full body and is the uh goes pretty much with everything.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would agree with that.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: And give me that even with the second one, even with the breakfast, you know.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, better with breakfast, breakfast in cereal, I find of course, of course.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the second one again, if you want very easy, you know, say uh it's a 100% of Pinot Noir produced by the great producer of uh uh Domain Louis Latour.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's coming from Burgundy, it's a Grand Cru uh vineyard of Corton, and uh is the medium wine with the very beautiful, elegant characteristics, and it goes very well with pretty much everything.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: You think so?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not, it's not, but it's it's my commercial side.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say I have a you know a big steak.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it could, but I think it could, it could, yes, it could, but you probably would probably choose.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, interestingly interesting that you know many people like fish but don't like to drink uh white wine.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: So there are a few great varieties, one of them is Pinot Noir, that actually can match certain fish uh at the menu.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Same story, you have a steak, but you don't like to drink red wine.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, really, the white wine that we are drinking is very suitable because it's a buttery powerful, so it can go with the steak as well.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was in um uh Germany last year.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm not gonna say the vineyard we were at was a very top top vineyard.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and they we were there for a long uh wine dinner, and they did serve steak, and um they knew that I uh somehow they knew, or maybe I'd said it, whatever, that I used to live in New York.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so they had served obviously a lot of Riesling, and this was a lot of Riesling vintages, right?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe seven or eight different Riesling vintages at different levels that we had.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: And they and one of the people who worked there said, You're from, you know, you lived in New York.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know everyone loves steak and and uh matching with Riesling.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, What?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: What are you talking about?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: In their little corner of the world, they actually thought that that's what people and I lived in New York for eight years.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: I never saw anyone having reasoning.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: But did you eat?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Did you eat?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's so it, and it was fine.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: I would much prefer an old Bordeaux or a you know California cab.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's me.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's all personal preference.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was fun to try.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: If she had said it differently, hey, I think this is something unique and different to try, I would have been more open to it, versus saying, you know, everyone in New York has Riesling in stake.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, I don't think that's a fact I can uh stand behind.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Coming back to the people you train, what is something that you would try to, let's say, communicate or educate this next generation of Somalias in terms of how they are talking to customers?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: What what maybe stereotype or something are you trying to get that?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: You must, you know, you've had 20 plus years experience, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: Of I'm sure customers at every level who have demanded all kinds of crazy things.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: But um, what what are you trying to tell the as you're training this next generation of Somalias?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: What how do you tell them what's their job and how should you know what should they be trying to communicate to to customers?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's my theory that let's say less than two percent of the of the world population is really educated in the wine, and that's fine, that's okay.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm surprised it's two percent, that's pretty high.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I look I used to say one, but uh yeah, we can let's say we can debate, yeah.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, wineries leave out of 98% of non-educated population, you know.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: What I was always careful, especially in in a fine dining, um, I can speak about wine pretty complicatedly if if I need.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I like if you are coming as my guest, I like to make you comfortable.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: I like you to come back again and look for me.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to make this connection that you're gonna refer, you know, and say, go to that restaurant and ask for Boyan and he's gonna take care of you.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: But to do that, you need to really make guests comfortable.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: So don't try to outsmart guests.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: So in fact, you're coming to be my guest, you are the one who pays my salary, I'm not paying your salary.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, why would I come and try to throw you some three complicated words that is gonna scare you, and then you're gonna say, Okay, give me gin tonic, and I don't want to talk to you anymore.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, for me, it's all about we are in hospitality business, but I also say that we are in entertainment business.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is very entertainment business.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you need to always uh make sure that no matter what, your guest feels comfortable.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, there are particular vocabulary that you can use to make everybody relaxed.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing, what I was doing in a way, I'll always convince you what I really want you to drink, but I'll make sure that you think that you are the one who decided.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: I see.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: And is that about trying to let's say I come in, I'm a Bordeaux lover, I'm gonna order the Bordeaux.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Are you trying to convince me to try something that's not Bordeaux?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: Or are you, you know, what is it that you're you're focused on?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I need to understand, I need to talk to you first.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: I need to understand how adventurous you are.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh if I see that there is the space to show you something more, then I'm gonna I'm gonna uh propose.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not gonna just blindly, you know, if you're a Pinot Noir lover, why would I offer you Californian Cabernet?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's stick to what I love.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like you have so many.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I want.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah exactly.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: You have so many of these small regions that now is coming up with uh indigenous grape varieties, which I personally support so much.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I cannot just come to you and say, hey, buy this.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I I show you something, you know, something that you're gonna try similar to this.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then if I understand that this is something that you like, then we can open.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I was risking a lot as well.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to open bottle that it may be adventurous to you, and if you say no, you're not gonna pay.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'll tell you a recent example.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: I was at a restaurant here in Hong Kong, and um I was waiting for my guest, and the I think it was the Somali or or at least whoever the head of wine was came over and offered me a glass of um Chinese sparkling wine.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I would never have probably ordered uh a glass of Chinese sparkling wine, but because I tried it, I was actually very surprised at the quality of Chinese sparkling wine.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's not obviously champagne, but for what it was, I thought it was actually we ended up and when my guest came, I said, You gotta try this.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I ordered another glass, then I had another glass, and then we moved on to something else.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I really appreciated that he let me try something that was he said, Hey, look, this is different.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: And he presented it that way.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Hey, look, this is different.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's not what you would normally get, but give it a go, see what you think.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it really opened my eyes to something new.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you see, this is like um, I had a situation where somebody in uh in my previous work ordered a very expensive bottle of wine.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like 62,000 was uh Hong Kong dollars at the at the at the least.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm okay, I appreciate it.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like almost almost 7,000 US dollars, more than 7,000 US dollars, say 8,000 US dollars for the bottle of wine.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: So and I was very happy, everything is perfect.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I was coming with the bottle, when I start a little bit talk before I will open, I actually understood that that person doesn't really have experience in this kind of wines.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: They were trying to show off, yes, which I don't I don't mind.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: You want to pay, please.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't want to risk because I'm not gonna say the label, but that particular wine is done in a very different way.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's famous, it's very expensive, but maybe it's not what is expectation.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the end, I explain exactly what what they can expect, and uh they still go ahead.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: They have money, no problem.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they actually were very happy, it's not what they expected.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: They love the wine, they drink, but um uh if I didn't tell them, I I would put myself in a situation of causing the trouble.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's very important.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's very important.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: All right, we're gonna move in and try a whiskey now.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now you're in my world, my friend.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, Rikesh here, the whiskey chief.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: If you made it this far in the episode, firstly, thank you so much.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: As you know, it takes a lot to put on these kinds of episodes.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: So if you can like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskeys to you and keep doing this show the best we can.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm gonna tell you the basics that I was taught, right, on how to drink a whiskey by um a very in our world, in the whiskey world, a very famous gentleman, Richard the nose patterson, right?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna we're gonna take the whiskey and we're just gonna nose.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: We're just gonna give it a couple of hello, you know, how are you?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're just getting, we're not gonna go too deep, right?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a wine glass.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this we're at 59.2% alcohol here, right?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a little bit of a jump from the Pinot we were at.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is after party?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: So, this is a Bal Blair single malt cask sample from 2013.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: So this is coming up now.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think the sample was was drawn last year, so relatively young, uh, 12-year-old Bal Blair.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: But well, let's just see.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: What do you get on the nose?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Anything?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Can I?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are a lot of layers of aromas that we're gonna we're gonna talk about, but just if I may ask something.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I see you have this one, yeah, and I see that many people add the water water.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: So is it like releasing the energy?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think 100%.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's totally up to you.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I would suggest I am gonna add some water, and I would suggest you add some water too.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: But so the the most people, and what I was taught as well, is you add a little water to help it open up, um, but also you add a little bit of water to bring the ABV down so that you get it to your level of comfort, and your level of comfort is different than my level of comfort.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: The only thing to know about adding water is you can't take the water out.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: So add a couple drops at a time and just keep going until you get it comfortable.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: But what we are gonna do, which may feel a little uncomfortable, but you're all about extreme, so this will be fine.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna take a small sip and we're gonna give it, if we can, 15 to 20 seconds all around the mouth, under the tongue, left, right, top, like really switch it around.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: We're basically gonna gargle some very, very uh, very, very high-end whiskey.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see how extreme you're going to push me.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we're not drinking whiskey yet.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: All we're doing is yeah, they're getting that punch, right?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: So all we were doing then is just water, yeah.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: You can drink anything you want.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: All we were doing then was just priming our palate, right?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because it is very strong whiskey.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: The idea now is when you then smell and I think I'm tearing.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is your graduation into drinking whiskey.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: This is a good thing.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: The tearing is is part of the part of the process.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: So now you're welcome to add a couple of drops of water.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: I would suggest you do.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then you take a s take a sniff and then take a s a small sip.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: You can add three, four drops sort of at a time.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's not gonna do it.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: This is a pretty punchy whiskey, but I think that that then now gets you ready into drinking whiskey a little bit.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's let's talk about the Hong Kong wine market, because you you were you were talking about that a little bit.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think the Hong Kong wine market has been struggling.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think you would you would agree.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think you've made some statements about that, particularly in the fine wine side of things, or and maybe find fine fine dining overall is struggling in in Hong Kong to some degree in the last few years.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: Are you optimistic?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do you see this changing, or is this the new reality from a Hong Kong point of view?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you've been here a long time.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: How many years in Hong School?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Years in Hong Kong, you've seen, I'm sure, all the cycles, right?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Including what we had during the pandemic, the protests, the the ups, the downs, the left, the rights.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: How would you care characterize the Hong Kong market today?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: And where what do you see the future?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, in this year in 2026, I would say it's much better, it's a refreshing year.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I wouldn't I don't like you.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Using the word or term saying let's wait to come back or something is coming back.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't know where is the reference of the coming back.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this is new reality, new um habit of drinking.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like uh people decided to be a little bit more healthy.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but we're gonna change that soon.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're talking about Ozempek, or were you talking about?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's you know, they they they suddenly decide to drink less than what they used to do.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I strongly discouraging this.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think in the industry I also have to strongly discourage that.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um no, but definitely no, um, I think you know 23 was a very difficult year, 24 and 25 was catastrophic years.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's not just about uh wine, even though wine is in the in the part of the luxury industry, but uh you know, if you look into the luxury watches, bags, you know, everything.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Everything's been tough.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: And not just in Hong Kong, I would say globally, the luxury industry is in a tough couple of years.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: So 26 in Hong Kong started actually a bit better.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Still, you know, like a fine wine is struggling, but is on the good way to to somewhere find a new, you know, new direction.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: That new direction.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: So new direction, like um, I'm sure you know many of them who uh who were buying empremere, you know, and storing, and then there was a big crush of imprimere.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about on premier, and then let me just explain it quickly for anyone who's listening and maybe doesn't know.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because I used to work in the wine industry many, many, uh, many, many years ago, right?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so the on-premur system predominantly focuses on Bordeaux, though other regions around the world do do some version of on premier as well.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I think the origins are Bordeaux.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that'd be fair to say.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: So the idea is they're this these are the chateaux selling the wines to of a particular vintage, let's say now, right?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and going into they'd be doing the 2026, uh, sorry, the 2025 Onpremer vintage just finished, right, in June earlier this year.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: So this is vineyards making access to this newest vintage to negotiants who are, let's say, middlemen to some degree, right?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: And women, who are then offering it to usually retailers, merchants who are then offering it.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the idea was you're buying the wine before it's available in the marketplace.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: So you're getting probably anywhere between 18 months to 24 months, is that fair?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: That you're getting an access to or early access to this wine.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the idea years ago was by having early access, you're getting a better price, and therefore later you will have a better price than what it ends up in the market or retail at.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: That hasn't and and I used to be involved in on premier back in 2009-2010.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: Wonderful vintages with amazing vintages uh in in the Bordeaux world.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's very different today.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: Is the on-premur system broken in your view?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I would not be there to say that.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's also a lot of politics, but you know, like uh what happened with Empremair just a year ago or two years ago, there are a lot of individuals, you know, who were uh who were storing this kind of I mean who were buying Mpremair and suddenly they ran out of cash.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: So they needed to liquidate this.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: So they actually dropped the Bordeaux, you know, like uh that's the fastest money to do it for like 10 pro uh 10% or 20% under the price that they bought.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: So then the consumers who were buying after Empremere, you know, who were buying more higher price, suddenly see the same vintage at 30% lower price at the market, which was very difficult.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: So then many of the collectors say, like, why would they do this anymore?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, actually I can wait, and still these kinds of vintages will appear at the market at a competitive price.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think this happened even recently, even I think earlier this year, which would have been the 2025 on-premur.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: There were some chateaus where their on-premur price, their release price for 2025 was higher than if I went and bought a case of 2015.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course, right, which is already 10 years old, already has the age, already has uh everything is already ready to go, ready to drink, or yes, ready.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: That makes no sense to me.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: Why would I pay more for uh for zero age than 10 years?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you asked earlier about what younger generations do different.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, actually, they have very little patience, so they don't want to wait, and they want to drink, you know, ready wines right now.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: And most of my friends who are collectors for many years, they don't want to buy collector wine anymore.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: They want to they want to buy the wines that are ready to drink now, you know.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they find competitive.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: All right, we're gonna come back to the Bell Blair, add a couple of drops.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna do a little scoring.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, do what do what you need to do here.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: I for me personally, I find it much easier to drink this now after a couple of drops of water, and we're gonna go back and and do a little tasting and I'm gonna see how you feel.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure for you, you know, you don't drink a lot of whiskey, it's probably still quite strong, and it is.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is like sponging so much.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: This is a cast sample.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is at 59.2%.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is done in a bourbon cask, right?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll try to do it your way.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: This is Belle Blair.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this is in Scotland.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is 12 years old.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: This was aged in a bourbon cask.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: This gives me peach.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: This gives me light fruits, this gives me a medium body, this gives me strong, strong finish.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you shouldn't move to wines as well.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you think I could do it.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: You think I could do that?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, I I love Bal Blair.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think Bal Blair um is a beautiful distillery.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the interesting thing about Bal Blair from our perspective, and you'll relate to this, is they used to, I don't think they do it anymore.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: They were the only distillery that really focused on vintage.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: So in whiskey, it's more about age, right?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: Here, this is 12 years old, this is 18, this is 25.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: When it was exactly it was distilled, doesn't it's not really the focus versus wine.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, the vintage is everything because there's variations in the vintages.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: In whiskey, there's not variations in vintages because the climate doesn't affect the whiskey production, as you know.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: But Bal Blair was one of those distilleries I really loved because all of their releases were vintage focused.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_03: So you could go get a 2018, a 2003, a 2006, and that was part of their brand.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: Someone came along and kind of changed that, which I thought was a little bit sad.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: I hope if anyone from Bal Blair is listening, you go back to um the vintage side of it.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: We send them, we send them, we'll get to them.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna give this a solid seven.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: Seven out of ten.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think this is a decent um expression of what Belle Blair is.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to score if you don't want to, but if you want to.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: The reason why I cannot score is because I don't have other references.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's fair.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: It wouldn't be, yeah, it wouldn't be.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's fair.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's fair.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to delve into um an interesting part of your journey, which was you spent how much time working on cruise ships?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: How many years were you uh almost five, five years?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: Almost five.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: Mostly out of Miami.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, also Southampton.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: I trained three different companies, and uh I used to live on the cruise ship, like you didn't have a place when you came back to port, you just would uh did a hotel or whatever.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: You did you didn't have an apartment for five years.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, right.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: You leave, you leave.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is your extreme part of you, right?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's uh I'm not the only one, but it's uh it's a phenomenal experience.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a very and usually when you go on these cruises, how long are these cruises for?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh usually, well, when you sign the contract, these are approximately six months contract.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, then you are two months at home and then six six tourists.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: I did uh many times eight-month contract, you know, and uh but cruise line really for me was uh wonderful experience.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: If I need to return time back, I would still do it.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: But until certain age and certain point.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, difficult to be away from family now, obviously.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I mean at that time I didn't have now my wife would not allow me to go at all.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a lot of uh interesting things are happening there.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: So look, on this on the cruise, it's a very different situation, right?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're you're obviously in the middle of the sea, you can't get new bottles in what you've got is what you've got.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm assuming you have access to potentially thousands of bottles.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_03: Around 50,000 bottles on a single cruise ship, there'd be 50 bottles.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: At least uh let's say at the Queen Victoria Cunard, yes.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: There'd be 50,000 bottles of wine at at all levels, right?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: From any of those rats.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then you've got thousands of customers, right?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, yes, cap capacity altogether is close to 4,000 people, including the stuff.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_03: So when you look back at those five years, tell me one story, one memorable story that was a highlight, and tell me one that was a disaster.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can I start from disaster?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: Please, I prefer that.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it was a celebrity cruise line.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: What year?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um I wasn't public speaker at the at uh any of the tastings.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: There is no trends I will go in front of people and speak.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we had a food and wine pairing that guests paid to come.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: We were there at sea, somewhere around Caribbeans.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: This was uh an experience you were delivering.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we so if you embark to the cruise on seven or ten days, whatever, we will organize five, six different tastings.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: So for you not to be bored, you know.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, we charge this, it's also part of the revenue.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: So one of that was the food and wine pairing.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Tasting support is supposed to start like two o'clock in the afternoon.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: Entire Somalia group had a party night before, and nobody woke up for lunch, including myself.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: 2 p.m.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, 2 p.m.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: was but with preparation and everything, 2 p.m.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: guesters I think nobody made the 2 p.m.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, but no, but everybody did.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to tell us about the party, or that's for another podcast?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can actually tell you a very small amount of time I I don't remember the things.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was one of the particular times, and I had some bruises that uh mystery mystery bruises.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we we don't know where it's coming from, and I was not the only one.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what happened?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I woke up maybe around 12 o'clock very accidentally.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I walk through the corridor and they say, Come on, are you guys hosting the food and wine pairing?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I totally forgot.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I start knocking on the door.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not the speaker, you know.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: I start knocking on the door, I start calling the people around, nobody responds.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to manage.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was my first time I standing in front of the people and providing the food and wine pairing.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: You did it because no because step up.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I was shaking and you know, like I didn't know what to speak, and plus hangover, you know, and everything.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: But that was probably um first that was you know my my first official speech.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, secondly, that time all guests were requesting another any tasting where I'm gonna be the speaker.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's and that's how it started, yes.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I didn't go much into technical details of the wines, or yeah, more storytelling.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Who slept with who from the vineyard and stuff like this.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was uh yeah, that's actually my first time that shaped the career of the yeah.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that got you as so out of something super negative, actually came uh a whole career.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just complete disaster, but yeah, I mean there are many disasters.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you can you can do another three podcasts on disasters of the cruise.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we're gonna start a whole new podcast series called Disasters at Sea.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, is that we need to put 18 plus yeah, wine disasters at sea.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get into that.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and one one positive, one Well, there are many positives, you know, like uh Is it one story, one being at the being at the cruise, you know, you really you work a lot.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: You work 16, 16, 18 hours a day, and you party another four hours, you know.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, um cruise at that time at least, you know, I'm not in this industry for 12 years now.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: But uh we had access to very amazing bottles of wines at a very good price that you cannot find at the ground.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you could easily drink you know petruse at 1200 US dollars, you know.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, uh some of the phenomenal um Lafitte at 500 US dollars, you know.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: So being in contact with these wines, you know, was was like a lot of access over there.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lot of education and a lot of learning.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, yes.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: We had plenty of the winemakers coming to give us the masterclasses, but you know, I did twice around the world with a QR cruise line.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, going to every every day you wake up in different countries, it's yeah, it's phenomenal.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty amazing, and great to do, obviously, um, as an experience as a couple of things.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, again, until a certain age, you know, like at least from my side, there are a lot of people who who spend 40 years at the cruise line, you know.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, amazing.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: All right, we're gonna try our final whiskey here.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: As you can see, this is a little bit sheried, uh, or very sheried.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: More than this is a North British, which is a single grain distillery, right?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: So in whiskey, we have single malt, and then we have single grain, and it's a mix of the two that makes a blend, right?
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_03: Which I'm sure you know.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, this is a single grain whiskey, 1991.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: So now we've gone up in age significantly.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yes to me.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 1991.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this is still at 59.8% um ABV, so so pretty close to the last one.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: Very high cask sample, cask strength.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: But this is a 1991 vintage North British aged in sherry cask or has been moved into sherry cask along the way.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I so same routine.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to switch it around.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: The switch it around is the first time, and the real the reason we do that is because obviously we had wine, maybe had coffee earlier, etc.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: We're just trying to get our palate ready for such a high ABV.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: This time it's it is more about the the the smell.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't wanna you know look snobbish, but I could accept this much more.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's more smoother.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's snobbish, I think that's personal preference.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you know, it's gonna be like, oh, it's that's more expensive, so that's why it's actually nothing to do with it.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's very different flavors, right?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: And we purposely picked these two two different flavors because this is, I would say, and you talked about typical, right?
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: Chardonnay, and you talked about typical, maybe not typical, but let's say quintessential Pinot, right?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: For me, what I was what we were trying to pick was okay, this is quintessential bourbon cask uh uh aging, and this is quintessential sherry cask aging, and you can see obviously the big difference that it has in color, in nose, in in everything.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: But to me, this is gorgeous.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is this is a fantastic whiskey.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, I should do it.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is North British.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um can I come tomorrow as well?
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, any day, yeah.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is this lasts forever.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is North British, this is single grain, 1991, 59% ABV.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is sherry, this is dark, this is port, this is chocolate, this is all kinds of beautiful finish.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: This is lingering, this is this is toffee in a glass, this is dessert in a glass, this is heaven in a glass for me.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is gorgeous.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: You'll make me fall in love with whiskeys.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, see, there's a chance.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's still hope for you.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm gonna give that a solid 8.8 out of 10.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a very strong whiskey.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for me, I would give 10, but it's again resistant.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: Relative, yeah.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: So not saying that this is not amazing as well.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's different, right?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: This is a much younger, yeah.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a comparison as much.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: We try to rate each whiskey as we can on its own individual merit.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: Some younger whiskeys are amazing, some older whiskeys are not as good.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: This one I could drink um all night, and and that might happen because it is Friday night here in Hong Kong taping this, so let's see where the night goes.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: As I ask, where is the after party?
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I can argue.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_03: Wherever you want it to go.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: We still have some bottles of wine, right?
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what's your what's your actually the favorite uh group of the wine?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: What country of wine do I like?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what country, what region?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, my my go-to is definitely old Bordeaux.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a I'm a simpleton.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_03: Any particular vintage or I'm very impartial right now.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I go through phases, and I think as I get older, the vintages kind of come with me, but I seem to be stuck right now in 1996.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we're in 2026 right now, so something to me about drinking 1996 vintages.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: I I've been drinking them for probably the last five to six years.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're for some of them, they're getting towards the end of uh, you know, some of the let's say third and fourth growths, probably starting to get towards the end.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_03: But obviously, Latour 96.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I just bought two bottles of Hot Breon 96 yesterday.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I saw some single bottles from someone I think are they are they here in this room?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I think, yeah, I love I I have this thing where I really love if we're in 2026, I really love drinking 2006, 96.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, if you want to go back to 86, but there's something to me that's special.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you want, yes, you want to connect with the decade.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: I want to connect with like it being 20 years old or 30 years old, right?
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_03: When we get into 2027, I'll try to do that with 2007 and 97.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of, as each year passes, I move my vintage marker one down.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it doesn't mean I don't also drink you know 2000s or 2001s or whatever.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm I'm very impartial to old Bordeaux because I think that old Bordeaux was my first time that I really appreciated wine.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I drank wine lot for many years before that.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_03: You remember the bottle that's really bottle.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember that it was the first time I had it had any age because I spent my 20s in New York, and usually most people in the US, most people drink wines actually very young in in the US overall.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: There's not a lot of we used to go to California, we used to get uh a lot of ridge and uh a lot of great great California wines, but you drink them very young.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: It was only when I came to Hong Kong I started selling on premier that I kind of and got invited with a client, and I I don't remember what it was, but I think it was maybe just a 10 or 15-year-old Bordeaux.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that first time that I had integrated tannins, the first time that I had this sort of barnyard kind of smell like wow, this is this is another world.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: So of course I love burgundy, everyone does, and you know, can appreciate it.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's very different.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's but for me, give me an old Bordeaux and a steak.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: And and I say old, I mean anything more than 10 to 15 years.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: And well, I I really love old old.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and I'm the hunter, and the hunter and the old.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when I used to work in uh one of the hotels here in Hong Kong, yeah, so I organized a wine dinner called Second World War.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I was inspired by the book called Wine and War.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: You may see that I never read book in my life.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm the I'm the I'm the visualization person, visualizing person.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: So and uh for me, it put me everything in the pictures.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm okay, I'm gonna digest.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh as soon as they start reading something more than uh you said you're a history guy.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_03: You're saying you only only consume history through videos, through documentaries, through listening to the video.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_03: Listening, okay, audio, and uh you know you're not a history book guy.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you know, in Serbia we had a lot of history books with the photos, right?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so it's you associate with something.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and that was the only book I I read twice.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one after the other at the at the flight from Paris to Hong Kong.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: What's the book again?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Wine and War.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_03: Wine and War.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's a real story, it's about the Eagle's Nest.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a Hitler um kind of the summer house in the border with Austria in Germany.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh when that happened on the end of the Second World War.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a young French guy who actually entered inside of the warehouse and see a huge amount of salon, petrousse, whatever everything stolen from the from the places, yes.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's five families who talk about this.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I read this book and then I uh I spoke with a couple of different wineries.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I had the wines from 1939 to 1945.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: That was the dinner you did.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was like five hours dinner, you know.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: With uh were all the wines good?
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_03: Did they show up that night?
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I inspect them in a specific way.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: There is always risk that you cannot guarantee.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but even like um uh Jean-Charles Cars of Lynch Barge, actually, his father, Jean-Michel, great Jean-Michel, uh they they actually sent me original photographies, authentic photographies from the harvesting of 1940, 41, 42 of Lynch Barge.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, so we had like a gallery, you know, it's uh displayed in this room.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_03: So for people to understand what they were really drinking.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_03: And during that time, I assume production was very low, right?
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, we were in World War II, so everyone was off fighting the war.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: In Scotland, what was interesting, it was one of the first times that uh females were made distillery managers.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: So before that point, before World War II, it was always a male distillery manager, but because the men were off fighting the war in Scotland was the first time, as far as I understand, uh, that was the first time that they had a significant amount of female distillery managers just to keep things running.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, in general, I think they have better palaces.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Than us, much better.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, much much better.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_03: And also a better nose, particularly, right?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: Female females generally have a better nose than the men do.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, like from that dinner, as you say, like it was very difficult during the that time.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: I had that um Obreon 1940 in the blue bottle.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_04: What was that like?
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, it's uh wine was phenomenal.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: I had two wines from 1940.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: I had Chateaupavy 1940 and Obreon.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you did this dinner only once.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_03: Only once.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_03: Would you ever do something like that?
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually I'm planning to organize again.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, here's well here's to the getting an invite.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure I can't afford it, but here's to getting an invite.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was not much.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much for being a guest.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_03: Last question.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: One of the businesses we run is called Cast of Significance.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_03: Cast of Significance is focused on people or customers, uh, individuals who want to celebrate important moments of their life, right?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: It could be uh uh a birth of a child, could be an anniversary, it could be anything.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_03: And we feel that those are the moments where you reflect on who you are as a person, who got you here.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it's important to say thanks to those people and find a way to appreciate those people.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, who's who's one person that you wouldn't be here without, and what did they give you?
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I cannot say one person.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's pick pick one to share with us at least.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: There is the army behind, yes, literally army.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really, you know, growing up in a in a bit difficult environment, and I didn't really have much opportunity to do that.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: I like the bit difficult environment.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was Serbia in the 90s.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was not a little difficult of Yugoslavia.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: Most people listening to this podcast have no idea what Serbia in the 1990s was like.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 41 now.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: I went through three wars.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's okay.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: But look, you're very modest, yeah, but more than difficult.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, I'm there are many more people struggling much worse than what I went through.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but really like listening to this podcast.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna make that, we're gonna make that inspiration.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but you know, like uh let's not maybe mention one person, but mention one organization that is very important, and um, all of them will find themselves million percent.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the Hyatt Regency Bellgrade, so this is they are the ones who really you know uh shape the way, and actually, you know, like uh at that time I had many other friends in hospitality business in different rest individual restaurants, you know, and everybody were always laughing at me because uh Hyatt at that time didn't pay much, but the school that Hyatt provides you, it's incredible, you know.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's really gives you, you know, like um uh gives you open door to many other companies.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: So spending there almost uh more than three years, actually, it's uh why I'm actually here.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: But there are a bunch of the people involved, you know.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if I mention, if I mention, I can mention all maybe ten, yeah, but what about if I miss one or two?
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sure it is.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_03: It wouldn't be well.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_03: Here's to the higher regency bugger.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_03: If by some reason you're listening, we salute you.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_03: They will listen and we we thank you for giving us this amazing individual, and we thank you for spending your time with us today.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna finish these two bottles, yeah.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot uh you know, if we don't finish, it's a bad spirit.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's I think the after recording part or the uh the outtake.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: But uh shall we do the live podcast of finishing the bottles?
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_03: That can be interesting.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_03: But look, thank you so much for for being a guest.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_03: I learned a lot.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh what you're doing in in what you're calling extreme tourism is important, and I think what I I really respect about you, I really admire about you is you're always pushing the envelope, whether it comes from crazy times at at sea, I'm sure doing a great job in Ireland, all the way to what you're doing with Link's Concept now and and really training this next generation.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I learned a lot about the world of being a s uh of in the world of Somali years, I should say, uh, particularly about the things that you're doing.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for for being with me today and really appreciate your time.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a celebrity.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you should.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um you are, you are gonna have your own documentary.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: When this comes out, your documentary is but but maybe just the last thing about documentary.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's just first part.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we are planning actually second part to the Mount Everest, third part to uh to another place that's let's not talk for the moment.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then there is the potentially fourth final part that we will have you on every part, and and we're excited for this journey with you, and we support you, and we support learning.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's the most important thing, and we support curiosity.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think you said that at the beginning of the podcast, and that's what this is all about.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, as always, the whiskey's never finished, uh, neither's the conversation.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_03: If you made it this far in the podcast, please do like and subscribe.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_03: We always appreciate that.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you very much for being here.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.