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Intergenerational Relationships · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Today's episode is sponsored by the Silva ultramind system, which is a highly optimized framework for awakening your mind's fullest potential by giving you a reliable access to altered states of mind. That's based on the Silva Method, a pioneering mind empowerment methodology founded in 1960. Basically, it's a long way of saying it's a meditation style that I started using recently and it has changed my life. It's more of an active type of meditation. So it's not any of that, like, clear your mind stuff. Get super quiet. It's more of an act of, like doing something with your mind. You're actively thinking. And I can say I've seen measurable difference in my life since implementing it. They also have a super easy to use app, so you can use it on any smart device that you want. So if you're interested, you can head on over to our show notes and look at the Silva ultramind system link that we have there. Now let's get on with today's episode.
• 0:56
  Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast about personal development, mental health and sexuality. Today I'm your host. My name is Michael diioro. I am a life and wellness coach and I specialize in helping my clients build authentic self confidence from the inside out, especially in the areas of sexuality, dating and relationships. Today, I am super excited to welcome back to the show Hector Rodriguez. Hector is a Miami based psychiatrist who also works with many gay men. Hector has actually been a guest on our show before, episode number 92, Shiny Object Syndrome, which is a very popular episode. Hector, by the way. So, Hector, thank you for coming back to the show.
• 1:32
  Speaker C: Well, thank you for inviting me back. Actually got very excited when you told me that wanted to do something again. I was like, oh, awesome. That was super fun the first time. But, you know, I'm a doctor, I'm a psychiatrist in, in Miami, Florida, and a lot of my patients are LGBTQ community. And it's amazing to be able to work within the community that you're a part of.
• 1:58
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:59
  Speaker C: And I'm very excited to be here and talk about this topic today.
• 2:02
  Speaker B: Yes. Thank you so much. So today, guys, we're talking about intergenerational relationships. What that means for this episode, we're going to define that as any relationship that has a gap of 10 years or more. So that's what we're going to define it as today. Okay, that works for you. Heather or Heather, Hector.
• 2:22
  Speaker C: I could be Heather.
• 2:23
  Speaker B: It's a great drag name, Heather.
• 2:27
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 2:27
  Speaker B: So yeah, yeah. Ten years or more is what we're going to be talking about today. We're going to be covering romantic relationships and also friendships within the gay community. So specifically, we're going to look at some of the benefits of intergenerational relationships amongst gay men. We're going to look at some of the common stigmas that are attached to these older, younger relationships and how to deal with that. And then we're going to talk about some of the real and very unique challenges that come with being in an intergenerational romantic relationship and maybe how to deal with some of those challenges.
• 2:57
  Speaker C: Challenges.
• 2:58
  Speaker B: Okay, so let's get into it. Let me just speak to my experience first. Just so that everyone knows. I've never really been in an inter. In an inter. I can have a hard time with this today. Intergenerational romantic relationship. The. The relationship I had that had the biggest age difference, he was 10 or eight years younger than me, so not quite 10. But most of the time, the guys I've. I've dated long term have been around my age. However, I can't speak to absolutely the platonic kind of intergenerational friendship. So a little bit about my history. The adults in my life when I was growing up were not gay.
• 3:36
  Speaker C: Not.
• 3:36
  Speaker B: None of them. Zero. At least not that I knew of. So I didn't have that kind of role model, a gay person, even. Even lgbtq, nothing in that realm that I saw growing up. So. And they don't need to be. I mean, my role models were awesome. My parents and adults in my life were awesome. They imparted a lot of really good wisdom on me. But there is something to be said for having older men in your life who have navigated those unique challenges that I was facing as a kid. Homophobia, coming out, you know, relationships, gay culture, all these things. Someone who I could trust, who I could, you know, be myself with. Someone who's ideally, who's been around the block and could help me handle the tough that I was handling on my own, questions about sex, you know, feeling so lost and alone. I grew up in the burbs, went to Catholic school. I didn't. I didn't have any access or anything to gay culture or other gay guys. So someone who would be like, hey, listen, this is. This is how it works, you know, by the way, you're super lucky to be gay. This is a great thing. Here's why. Introduce me to this wild, wonderful world, you know, in a way that I would feel safe and someone that I could trust. So I didn't have that, that would be great. And I think part of the work I do now is in my content is having, you know, putting that out there. I know it's a very different world today than it was when I was coming up, but still, I would have loved that. And I think, you know, I was born in 83, I'm going to be 40 this year. So the, the men that came before me, a lot of them died during the AIDS crisis. So I feel like, you know, we lost a lot of guys who could have maybe would have been that father like figure for me. So here's the thing. Even though I didn't, I did, I did come with my parents and they did. They were mostly supportive and they empathized the way that they could. They didn't have that lived experience. You know, they couldn't tell me about things like stonewall or coming out or how hard it is or, you know, the bathhouse rise. And they couldn't impart all that really rich gay culture onto me. So I had to learn a lot of this stuff, you know, dating, sex, gay bars, all that stuff through trial and error, which I will say has its own benefit, but also at the same time, I'm very lucky to be alive. Like, I did some shit. I don't know how I survived it. I should not have done half the stuff I did when I was younger, you know, but that's. That, that was then. I made it, things are all good. But let's fast forward. Here I am today, as I said, I'm turning 40 this year. And guess what? I still want that older man in my life. Like I haven't outgrown that, that desire or that need now instead of things like coming out and relationships, it's more like I have questions about relevance as we age and purpose. And you know, our community is very much youth obsessed, as they say. And so a lot of people will say that they lose their relevance. And I'm already noticing that. I mean, I don't, I don't think I'm old, I'm only 40. I think that's young, but I, I can see that already, right? So I kind of still want that older man in my life to talk about things like, like that with someone who knows what it's like in 10, 20, 30, 40 years for me, someone who can kind of tell me, hey, this is what to expect. This is, this is how it works. So the good news is I do have that person and I'm going to talk about him in our next question. I do have that person now. But let's first hear from Hector. What's your perspective on this? What are some of the benefits that you see in your personal experience and even, even within your profession of having intergenerational relationships, platonic or otherwise?
• 6:59
  Speaker C: It's funny you mentioned that. I didn't know you were born in 83. So was I. So I only turned 40 this year. Yeah. And I mean, I think I also didn't have that gay figure growing up. And Even in my 20s, when you're still trying to figure out what you know, what you like, what you don't like. But I did notice that throughout life I always had an age gap with everyone around me that I found interesting. So to me, I think that's one of the things that I've noticed. There'll be a huge benefit from being inter, in an inter generational relationship of any kind, is that they tend to be the most interesting people in your life and they tend to be more of that, that fascinating person that you kind of go to for like not just their, their, their ideas, but also their stories and their life stories. So I've always been fascinated by that. And I noticed that even as a little kid, I always went to those older people around me. I never really went so much to people my age for that kind of relationship. I went to older people. And I feel that I've always done that in life. I don't know if you knew, but before I was a doctor, I was a fashion photographer. So a lot of my older gay friendships I learned, I gained when I was a photographer. So they didn't just give me a lot of their knowledge from the artistic side of photography, but that's when I started learning more about sexuality and about what do I like, what I don't like. And I think they kind of guided me in, in the coming out process. And, and I feel, I think, I think at that time I didn't realize it until now. When you look back and you're like, yeah, they were my guides in that part. And I think that's one of the huge benefits of having an older person now having a benefit for the older person is that younger person tends to introduce new ideas, they tend to give you a new way of looking at things because sometimes we get set in our way, right. Of seeing things or viewing the world that once you kind of throw that curveball with a younger person, and when I say younger again, 10 year gap at least. Right. They do bring this different way of seeing things that you probably didn't see it before. And believe it or not, studies have shown that it improves quality of life for the older person in the relationship. So it's really interesting to see that there's actual studies that prove to be very beneficial to have these kinds of relationships. And again, I'm just talking about the friendship part, but from my personal experience in the romantic side, I have a boyfriend who's 10 years younger than me. And it's, it's really funny because in a lot of ways he's just like me. So it's like, oh, my God, that was me 10 years ago. But then in other ways, like, I have now seen things and experienced things through a different lens. So we call that negativity bias. Right. So usually when we see things in a, in a different way, but more glass half empty, usually that could be a product of our life experiences. Right. We've been hurt before, so we start creating wall. So when you kind of throw this younger person into the mix, it allows you to see things through a different lens. So when we look at the negativity bias, and I mentioned this because I talk about this with my patients, like every single day is giving you that ability to kind of clean the lens, to kind of look at the, look at things again and not necessarily through that the lens of being hurt or from experiences that might have scarred you a little bit. Now this younger person is going to be like, no, but look at it like this. And you're like, okay, I didn't think about it like that. So those are two of the biggest benefits that I would probably say are really beneficial for intergenerational relationship of any kind, romantic or friendship, honestly.
• 11:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. I, I'm looking at it is a symbiotic relationship. I'm glad that you mentioned that. And I think for us, you know, both turning 40 this year. When's your actual birthday, Hector?
• 11:22
  Speaker C: May 11th.
• 11:23
  Speaker B: I may 27th. We are so. Yeah, I know. Who knew?
• 11:28
  Speaker C: Oh, that's awesome.
• 11:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, so we're. I, I kind of see myself as in the middle. Like, I don't think I'm old. I don't think I'm young. I'm like, at this beautiful. 40, like 20 years ago is 2010. 20 years from now. 60. Like, so we can kind of have both. We can enjoy being the, the older person and being the younger. And I think that's such a great, rich place to be. I love the word they use. Right. It's interesting. I would agree. So with my friend, you know, I, I would Agree. He's probably the most interesting person that I can talk to. And when we get to spend time together, I really value it. It's a. It's a breath of fresh air from my usual gay circle. Not to say there's anything wrong with my usual gay circle. They're awesome. I love them. But it's nice to have a little something different from someone who has a different perspective, who. Who has experienced things that none of us really have. He offers a unique perspective, and that's exactly what I love about spending time with him. I think also there's a certain attractiveness, and I'm not just talking like in a sexually, but there's just general. A charisma maybe that comes with age. Like, there's a certain wisdom in prison that you can only get as you age. And I noticed that not just with him, but with older people in general. Another example is Tim McCaskill, who I've interviewed on this show before, twice. And I mean, even people tell me, like, you have, like, a crush. Like, I have a crush on him because, like, when he's talking, I'm just like, wow, this is so interesting. He has all this wealth of experience, right? Yeah. So I think that, to me, is a very attractive quality. It's an intellectual or energetic turn on. So that's what I'll speak to personally. I think another benefit to our culture is looking at the macro level. What's your ethnic background, Hector?
• 13:13
  Speaker C: Cuban.
• 13:13
  Speaker B: Cuban. Okay. Yeah. So mine is Italian. So in our ethnic backgrounds, it's really easy to see that, you know, our grandparents passed down stories, traditions, all these kinds of things through our parents and to us. And it. It gives us a sense of pride in our culture. And the same thing, I think, could be said for gay culture. So when we disconnect ourselves from that older generation, we lose so much of our culture, our. Our wisdom. The shared stories, like I said earlier, things like, you know, Stonewall riots, Harvey Milk, of these things that are really part. I think they're really caused to be proud to be gay and part of this rich history. So I think at the macro level, that's one of the huge benefits, is it? It People who don't have that, like my friends who don't have those older people, they're the ones who like, oh, yeah, you know, they have such shitty things to say about gay culture. And there are. I'm not taking that away. There are a lot of shitty things about it. But also, we have a lot to be proud of.
• 14:05
  Speaker C: Right, Right.
• 14:06
  Speaker B: That tends to get Lost if we don't have those people to pass down those stories. And then I'll speak to the micro. So that was the macro level. For me personally, micro is. It's so nice to just have someone who gets it, like, who gets me. And I kind of like. Like, he's the only person in my life who, like, kind of pat me on my head and say, oh, you silly boy. Like, no one else does that. And I think it's kind of nice. It's, it's. It's that guidance. It's kind of reassuring, you know, and in. In many ways, he's. He's been where I am now, and I'm going to, you know, hopefully where he is. So as someone who is 40 and there's this whole thing about aging and being gay, I see him and I'm like, aging's not that bad. Like, you know, he's a wonderful example of aging with grace. And he's fun. He travels. He's still got. He's still enjoy his life's pleasures. He's got a little bit of mischief in him, which is. Is how I'm like, okay, when I'm 70, I want to be like that. Right, right, right. I think that that gives us. That gives me a good example as I kind of go through this process. And again, my friends who don't have that same thing, they're the ones who are like, oh, my God, you know, gay death, 30, gay death at 40, whatever that is. They have this terrible relationship with aging and getting older, I think, because they don't have those examples of. Of gay guys who can age with grace or age and be happy or still enjoy less pleasures. So that's just it, I think. I think that's what I get out of it. And go back to your example about how, you know, the other side of it. What. What do you think they get from that as the older person?
• 15:38
  Speaker C: So, like I was saying, so it improves their quality of life, introduces new ideas. It just like, for the younger one to see things a different way, the older one would now see things another way. Right. Because sometimes as we age, we do create patterns of behavior unconsciously or consciously, or we have. We, you know, we set opinions about different topics. But I think one of the fascinating things about life is. And here we're talking about age, but then we talk about different cultures and different age groups in different cultures, just kind of give you, I think, a more a richer approach to life. So I'm always inclined to. Whenever I have a party, whenever I Have something. It's like I'm going to invite people, people from different age groups, different backgrounds, different walks of life, because I think not only is it going to enrich the environment, but it's going to enrich those people because normally they wouldn't radiate towards each other unless I put them all in a room. And it's something that I tend to do always. So. And I want to say that I probably copied that from my parents and from my grandparents and I'm glad you brought that up because I think that kind of, of behavior we learn from our parents. So if our parents didn't do that, didn't expose us to different things, didn't expose us to different people in different age groups, we're not probably going to be doing it today and, and then reaping the benefits from that. So to me, being the older person in, in a romantic relationship, I, I love it. I mean, I see things from not just his side or his angle, but now I understand him better. And sometimes I understand myself better. I probably in the last few months though, that in our relationship I have grown so much as an individual. I have been, become more proud of being 40 and not seeing that as like, oh my God, like, that's it, we're going to die next year. Right? But, but seeing as like an enriched relationship and I really can't, you know, I can't do it any other way. I, I love it and I keep saying I love it because it is, it is true, we tend to now have a much quality of life and then it propels me to my future. So, yeah, like now I want to see how I'm going to BE When I'm 70 and 80, you know what I mean? And then now I'm looking for that 70 and 80, because now I'm kind of jealous that you have a 70, like a 70ish. Because it is, I think, I think every stage in our, in our life, whether we're in our 40s, 50s, or 70s, it has its thing, it has its charisma, it has its good and it also has its bad too. But I think being able to see that, it doesn't just help me, but it also helps our community. I think one of the biggest things that our community has been able to experience in the last decade is marriage. And seeing as our life as a longevity. And I think part of it is, yeah, with the AIDS Crisis in the 80s, I felt a lot of us were in the mentality of like, that's it, we're not going to live long. We're gonna just have this period of partying at a certain age, and. And that's good. But then we don't see the development. We don't. We haven't seen that modeled. And I think from that macro perspective, you mentioning being able to have someone older. Now, I know that there is a model of development as a gay male that I can follow. And yes, I could have kids, and, yes, I could be a grandparent to my own kids. So it's amazing to see that. And I think in the bigger scale, it's changing how we view age. I think for a long time, we see age as, like. Like, no, not me. Right. And now I feel we're embracing it more. I'm gonna tell you, probably in the last year, I've been hit on so much on social media because I'm aging, and I'm like, really? Like, what are you talking about? Like, you know, and it's the funniest thing, right? But at the end of the day, I think what it does, it allows me to feel confident that I am older, and then that feeds into my relationship, too, unconsciously, because then I become more confident in being the. The older, you know, Daddy.
• 20:18
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, this is all good. And so I hope for the. For the viewer. Listener out there, if there's one thing, I think we've done a great job of talking about the benefits. So, you know, ask yourself this. If you're kind of. Whatever age you are, ask yourself that's, how many friends do I have outside of my generation that are 10 years older or 10 years younger? Ask yourself that and just kind of think about that. And how exposed are you to viewpoints that are, again, of a different perspective? Not just age, but, you know, all across the board. But specifically today, we're talking about age. And just keeping in mind that if all of your, you know, it's like that compound effect, that echo chamber, if. If all the people that you surround yourself with are the same age, you're really losing out on getting that different perspective that could help grow you or help shift something for you. And that actually could be very stagnating. So I think we've done a great job on that. Hector, let's talk a little bit about the other side of things. So for all the benefits of these intergenerational relationships, Lord knows there are a lot of judgments that come with it, and I want to. I want to take some time to talk about that today. So I went through our Facebook group, the Gay Men's Brotherhood. And this is a fairly popular topic we have there. So here are some of the, some of the words that I took from that and we can talk about them. So some of the stigmas that are attached to these older, younger relationships, whether they're romantic or otherwise, the notion that it's predatory one way or another. So an older man preying on a younger person is, is a pervert. They're obsessed with youth. I'm using quotes for everyone. These are not my words. You know, for the younger side, preying on the older person, they're a gold digger. You know, there's the terms robbing the cradle, robbing the grave. I see those a lot. Other people will say if it's a romantic relationship, that it's not a real relationship, it's a sugar daddy, sugar baby thing. It's not real, it's, it's transactional. It's doomed to fail. I've seen that one, another, another common one is it's not actual love, it's just a fetish. And then for the people that do actually feel a genuine attraction to either younger or older, 10 years or more, there's a bit of shame in that. Like, is something wrong with me? Right? I think these stigmas force you to ask the question, like, oh, wait a minute, like, is something wrong with me? Am I a predator? Am I just, you know, a gold digger? There's a lot of shame that comes with it. So here's just some of them, surely there's more. Hector, tell us what are some of the stigmas you've faced if you feel comfortable and then how do you cope with it?
• 22:53
  Speaker C: So it was, it was super funny because at the beginning of our relationship some blog got pictures of us and like we're trashing. They tried, it was the funniest thing. They really tried. Most people, they didn't find anything once they, they digged into like my website, my blog and, and my partners, I mean there was nothing there, right? But it was short lived. But it was funny because we were still in a way for, for a week or two attacked just because we were, we had age, me being a doctor, immediately they were like, oh yeah, gold digger, right? And the funny thing is that he makes more money than me and he is younger. And I think that whole fetish situation, I find that very interesting. And then the judging part, I find that even more interesting coming from people in our community because I feel we're running away from being judged. But then we do so much judging to each other that it's just like so backwards to me that it makes absolutely no sense. But what, what do we did in that topic? Honestly, for us, it was a very comical time. You know, we were like, are you serious? Like, these people obviously don't know us, right? But I feel when it, when something could become a fetish or when something can become something that you're just attracted to, I always boil it down to, well, are you more fascinated with the idea or the person? If you are just fascinated with that person that's in front of you who happens to be younger or older than you, then everything else just kind of melts away because it's not important. It's, it's, it's not what's on the stage. It's not the first thing that I'm looking at. I'm focused on the person. I'm in love with this individual, which is the same thing. When I, when I met the love of my life, I saw him, it happened to be a male. Because at that time I was like, I don't think I'm gay. I don't know what I like, blah, blah, blah. This was years ago. So I think it boils down to, for me, to that, am I in love with this person who's in front of me, Whether they are of a different color, different race, different age, different sex than me, then that's what's important. You know, I think everything else kind of melts away. Yes. Is this is a stigma there? Yes. Is there still judgment? Yes, unfortunately. And it's really sad coming from our, our, our community. And that's why I stress that so much, is because it's so backwards for us to judge each other when we've always been judged growing up. And then, and then sometimes I wonder if, like, that's even like a. Some kind of mechanism. We learned that now we feel that we can do it because now we're the cool kids. Right? And it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's really sad. But for us in the moment, we just kind of laughed it off. You know, we were able to. To go through it and, and, you know, right here, I think at the end of the day, we love each other. So it was like, okay, that's just what people are saying and thinking. Just funny.
• 25:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's it. I think having that, having that ability, it's great that you guys have each other to lean on, which is really nice. Like, you're, you're in that relationship and, and going back to that question they asked, I think was perfect. It's a perfect question to kind of get to the core of it. But it is hard. I mean, I, I would imagine even like any kind of judgment. And you're right. I agree with everything you're saying about the gays. The gays and our, Our tendency to judge really quickly. Like.
• 26:21
  Speaker C: Tendency to judge.
• 26:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's. It's hard to get out of. But I, you know, you have interesting theory. I think it's tricky because what I notice is an older man who shows interest in a younger man is often seen automatically as a sexual advance or flirting. Now, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I think it's hard because when we automatically put it in that category of, oh, he's hitting on me like, he wants. He wants me sexually, when we automatically do that, we'd lose the potential for maybe it just could be a friendly older man. And I will say this. I think people of an older generation are naturally just more friendly, and they'll say, hello, good morning, whatever, open the door for you. Like, they're just naturally nice. Sir, I know this is a generalization, but I'm going to say it then. Maybe younger people who are, I find, a little bit more. I'll use the word, like, I don't know. They don't have that, like, charisma. Right. Like, if they, like an older people, like, older men will say hi to me. And I don't always think it's sexual. Now, sometimes it is, and this happens to me at the gym a lot. And I don't, I don't like it. Right. Like, I don't like it. I. Sometimes it is sexual and sometimes they're friendly, and sometimes it's both. Right. And that's okay, too. But I. What I've learned is I will allow it until. Until there's a line crossed. Until it's like, okay, now we're going somewhere else. And then I can say, hey, listen, no, thank you, not interested, or nice to meet you. Have a great rest of your day. Goodbye. So I just don't think it's fair necessarily that. That older men get kind of slap that label on, like, oh, you're hitting on me. It's always sexual. The truth is all men of all ages are guilty of unwanted sexual advances. I've done it.
• 28:01
  Speaker C: There's different ways of doing it.
• 28:03
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I think it's a form of. Of ageism. Like, it's stigmatized when it's someone who's older doing that. But I mean, wait, why can't they. Why can't they shoot their shot? If that's what they're interested in, why not? Why is that such a bad thing? And why can't we just say no? So what are your thoughts on that as a. As a form of ageism in our community?
• 28:21
  Speaker C: I mean, I think the way you said it is, like, it's so true. I mean, it does happen. But I think part of that is, is I think the older we get, we do become more confident. So we're not that afraid to go up to someone and be like, oh, hey, what's up? You know? Yeah. Could there be an attraction? Does it have to be a sexual attraction? I want to say that maybe a lot of the times it could be, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to go and be with that person. You might just be attracted to them. And I think in life, we mean, we face that. I'm not. I'm not attracted to women, but there's some women that I'm going to go approach them because they're attracted to me doesn't mean I'm going to go sleep with them. Does that make sense?
• 28:58
  Speaker B: That's a different point.
• 28:59
  Speaker C: I feel like that has its own. In Spanish, we call it bail, which means, like, when you kind of get stuck on something that is not that important, you know? And I'm talking about let that older guy walk up to you, or if you walk up to them, say hi back, like, don't be a jerk. You know? And what you said was true, too, is like, once they cross the line or you find yourself crossing that line and you're like, oh, maybe I'm. I'm attracted to them, and in my relationship, I shouldn't be doing that because that's the terms that we have or whatever, then I know when to stop, or I know when to let that other person, like, hey, you know what? No, but. But thanks. Right. I feel it needs to be a little bit more. More fluid and more, like, just be confident that if you're not interested enough to pursue it, pursue the relationship in that direction, then you're welcome to be like, hey, no, but thanks, but it doesn't make the other person a bad individual. And I think that's the part that we're missing out. I think in Miami, it's so hard to make friends, and I feel a lot of it is because they have that. They feel that just because you're saying hi to them, they want to take you to bed, and then There I go to other cities in the world, and even in this country where that's not the case, and I have to know how to turn it off. I'm like, no, they're not hitting on me. They're just nice people.
• 30:22
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:23
  Speaker C: You know, it happened to us when we lived in Chicago. I remember the beginning. I would. We would have guys come up to us, and I was always like, oh, no. They, no, no, no, no, no, no. And it was like, no, just say hi. But it was that thing, that way of thinking that immediately that's what they wanted. And. And also doesn't make them a bad person if they want that. I think we're adults and we're able to say no when we don't want something. And yes, when we. When we do. But I think the. The sad part is that we're viewing them as this bad person. Right. And. And the bad one is always the older one.
• 31:00
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 31:01
  Speaker C: Why do we view it like that? Why do you think that that is? You know, there. There are people out there who are of a predator mentality, and there's a whole other can of worms that we're not talking about in the world of fetishism. But most of the time, that's not the case. Most of the time. I think it's the way you explained it was like, perfectly, is they're just going to be more. More friendly and honestly, I think just more confident that they're not going to be fearful of rejection. And. And I want to be that. I want to be like that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to be fearful of. Of rejection, and I want to be able to just walk up to people and. And not necessarily give them the. The idea that I want to sleep with them. But that doesn't make me a predator. Doesn't make me a bad person because I'm going up to a younger person to say, hey, how are you? And I think a lot of it is our fascination with sex, and we think that everything is sexual. I don't know. I could be wrong.
• 32:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. And the youth part, right? Like, I think it's. I think that's. The interesting part is why is it, you know, if it's an older man that gets slapped immediately, like, predator, pervert, but if it's a younger man who's. Or someone of the same age even, who also unwanted. But that's. Yeah, that's more.
• 32:15
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 32:15
  Speaker B: Why is one more okay than the other? That's the part.
• 32:19
  Speaker C: Cool.
• 32:19
  Speaker B: So I think. I think that's an interesting conversation. So notice that, guys. And here's the thing. I also am very annoyed when people. When I say no, and they keep trying. But again, that happens to people of all ages. It's not just the older ones. So for those of you who do get rejected when someone says no, Grace graciously accept that rejection graciously as well. Don't keep. Don't keep trying. Okay, so besides the stigma. Stigmas attached, let's talk to some of these real and unique challenges that. That come in intergenerational romantic relationships and. And how to speak to some of those, because some of them are very real. So I'll share again what some of the biggest questions that I've seen through the Gay Men's Brotherhood Facebook group. So there's a few here. I'll just. I'll just read them all out, Hector. Then we can speak to the ones that you want to speak to. Okay. All right. So some of the challenges, you know, what happens as you age and you grow apart with your different interests and priorities? Okay, so maybe as some people age, they grow apart. Another common one is as the older partner's health deteriorates, will the younger partner still want to be around? Another question, a lot of questions about family acceptance. Parents don't agree with us, friends don't agree with us. You know, going back to the. Going back to the stigma piece, right? It's. It's really hard when it's coming from inside, coming from someone that you know that you love, like a parent or family member. Other questions around sexual compatibility and attraction. As you age and libido changes and your body changes, is that sexual compatibility still there? Let's say when one partner is 80 and the other one's 50 or whatever that may be. And then finally, questions around being at different stages in your life financially or being able to have or raise children, right? So someone who's younger might. Might want. Might be able to have kids and can see, you know, can be a young parent and have the energy to have kids, whereas an older partner may not. So these are some of the. Some of the challenges. I think they're very real challenges, right? Like the facts of being in an intergenerational relationship.
• 34:22
  Speaker C: So I'll.
• 34:23
  Speaker B: I'll pass it over to you. Where do you want to start? With these.
• 34:27
  Speaker C: So for me is the. The. I guess the physical, the energy, the. The libido. It's funny because that's what I do on a regular basis with a lot of my patients, whether they're in an intergenerational relationship or not. We so simple. We order labs, we look at hormone levels, and we don't see it, we don't see it that way. You know, we see as kind of like, oh, yeah, that's part of life. Our testosterone is going to go low as we age and we're just going to deal with it. I have some of my most high libido sexual patients are over 80, but it's how you treat it, you know. So my first thing, honestly, I, I, that's when I put on my doctor hat on and I'm like, okay, let's order labs, let's check your, your hormone levels, let's check your vitamin levels. Because there's different things that we could do to improve the sexual part of, of the relationship and sometimes is not just seen in different ages, sometimes the younger. I've had a few patients recently that the younger is the one that has lost a lot of the libido. And then we're dealing with other issues there. But that's honestly the first thing I do. I check hormone levels and let's see how we can optimize them. There's different foods that we can eat to boost testosterone, for example. Not everything is, you know, hormonal therapy that we need to do. There's different medications, different supplements are natural that we can take to boost your testosterone. And that's why to me, like we asked me, where do you want to start? I'm like, that's where I start, you know, because I'm like, if there is a low libido, I want to check how, how your brain is doing. That's where it's coming from. And I mean, I do scans every single day of my patients, brain scans. And we look at different parts of the brain and one of them is the thalamus. And the thalamus is literally in charge of lib, libido, energy, motivation, mood control. So all those things, when they're out of whack, you know, I call the, the, the thalamus the thermostat. So it's not set properly. You're going to have those issues. So that's, that's where I go, I go first there.
• 36:39
  Speaker B: That's so interesting. It's so, it's so interesting to have that, that perspective from the medical and, and your ability obviously to have access to these things. I, I didn't know that. So that's super cool. Yeah. How about some of these other ones, though? You know, like, you know, a common one was, was the health deteriorating. Like, oh, I. I like this person today when I'm, you know, 40 and he's 50, but what happens when he's 70 and I'm 60? Like, are you still going to want to be around? You know, I think that's. That's a common one for the older partner to be like, oh, he's going to leave me as I age.
• 37:09
  Speaker C: Right. And. And I think I would probably say it goes back to how fascinated and how much in love you are with the person. And I saw a post the other day on Instagram, and it was these two older people, like, loving each other. And the whole thing was about, like, it doesn't matter how old we are. I still see you. Because I see you. I don't see your outside shell. Right. And I think hopefully when you're in these relationships, you know the benefits that we talked about in length. Right. But it's improving your quality of life and how you see things. So as we age, it's actually going to improve that quality of life. But we have to see our differences and appreciate them. And I think as we age, we tend to focus on the differences but not appreciate them, not see them as, oh, I didn't see it like that, or, oh, I'm so glad you proposed that solution that I didn't see it that way. And not always looking at as why you think that way. You think different than me. And so then when you get stuck on that way of thinking and focusing on the differences as being a negative thing as opposed to appreciate them, I think we get to age together and. And you build that bond even more. And. And honestly, when I think of bond, I also think about the thalamus, because the thalamus is also in charge of bonding. So it's so crazy because whenever I see that in a partner, immediately I'm like, I wonder how your thalamus looks
• 38:33
  Speaker B: like everyone else is, like, thinking about their body parts, and you're like, show me your thalamus.
• 38:42
  Speaker C: But it is. It is very interesting. And another part of our brain is called the posterior cingulate gyrus. And the cingulate gyrus is. We call it the brain's gear shifter. So when we get stuck on something, we become very inflexible, cognitively and emotionally. So as we age, I mean, there's a few studies talking about it, that that posterior singular gyrus actually gets more active because we become more emotionally intelligent, which is. Changes the whole ball game, because by me becoming more emotionally intelligent, I'm going To be more aware of not just how I'm feeling, but how my partner is feeling. So even if they're aging or aging faster because they're like obviously older than me, I'm going to be aware that they're going through stuff and I'm going to be more self aware of how I'm feeling towards it. So it's like this, this type of relationship that should be actually becoming stronger as we age. But I think it goes down to that basic thing of appreciating our differences. And that includes even if they are aging and they're going through health issues, is, is having that person that, that is there for you or those persons that are there for you when you are sick. I recently had a patient who is actually younger but was diagnosed with a terminal illness. And their, their partner is not 10 years older, but they are eight years older. And it was just so beautiful to see that relationship because that's when they were able to step in and help. So sometimes, you know, life is, you know, is not always the way we expected that the older one is the one that's going to get sick. In this particular case, the younger one is the one that got sick. So I think we, we appreciate our differences and we're able to go through those challenges a little bit easier. They're not 100% gone. Right. They're going to be there and I think that's part of, of life too. But we need to be able to focus on that and kind of, it's a way of just viewing those differences.
• 40:51
  Speaker B: It's like any challenge. Yeah, yeah, I think that's, that's really good. Thank you for sharing that. All relationships have their unique challenges. Right. Regardless. And I don't think it's fair to say that there are more with intergenerational ones. Again, I haven't been in one, but I will say they're probably different. Like there are certain challenges that, that you would experience that perhaps I haven't. So if you feel so comfortable sharing, are there any, like what would have been to the degree you want to share, what have kind of been the challenges that you face specific to the intergenerational piece?
• 41:21
  Speaker C: Yeah. So I think for me, like I said earlier, like he is me just 10 years ago, which is funny, I've been able to, I guess the, the one of the biggest challenges that like me, he's very persistent and very stubborn sometimes and that, that's, you know, I always make fun of it because I'm like, this is your interior, singular gyrus talking, like, like let it go, like move on. Right. So that's been a challenge. But I see it for me as a good challenge because then I'm like, okay, that was me 10 years ago. What would I have told myself 10 years ago? So we, we talk a lot. We spend like so many hours talking sometimes whenever we have like a real thing that we need to work through. So that has been one of the challenges is how they see things. And sometimes getting stuck on seeing something and not, not allowing me to, you know, to show them that, that there's another way. Right. And it goes and it takes away from like, you're wrong, I'm right. It's more of like, there's another solution. And I think as, as gay people, we can say that there's many options and we should be the ones waving that flag of differences and possibilities and different options and not doing everything the way we were taught that we're supposed to live our life. So that's one thing that I'm, I'm, you know, challenged by him like pretty much every day. I love him and I'm challenged by him in that sense. Which is, which is really cool at the same time because then I know, like, okay, I need to like figure out a way to say it a different way so then he can, he can see it. But at the same time it, it helps me grow. Not just as a psychiatrist too, because then I know that I can present something to someone who is really stuck in their way. Even they're way younger than me. Right. So that's one of the things that I've noticed has been one of the biggest challenges.
• 43:24
  Speaker B: Yeah. Isn't it interesting that as, as you're speaking, the solutions that we're talking about are like the same solutions that work in non intergenerational relationships. Communication, being honest, being clear, nurturing the connection, leaning on each other, talking like reaffirming that commitment to each other. These are things that every couple can be doing. Yeah.
• 43:44
  Speaker C: And I find it interesting when, when people are fascinated by that and, and I, that's why I keep going back to that idea is like when your fascination is the age difference, that's when we can go into the arena of a fetish. But if your fascination is the person and you're in love with this person that you're going to hopefully pursue a relationship with, because we might, might even be talking to people who are still thinking about it, right? Because they have the family, they have a friend saying, hey, you shouldn't be in that relationship is not good for you or blah, blah, blah. Right. Look at the other side of the coin. What are the good things of being in that kind of relationship? But forget about that. Focus on the person. What are the good qualities that this individual who's standing in front of me has, whether they are 10, 20 years older or younger than me? Right. Now, when we go younger, then you guys are thinking about the legalities of it.
• 44:37
  Speaker B: Yeah, right. Of course.
• 44:38
  Speaker C: In some places. Right. But at the end of the day, I think it boils down to that, you know, like, focus on the person and if you're in love with that person, go for it. You know, I think people are always going to give their input and. And want you to not pursue whatever they had in their heads that you should be pursuing. And I think, you know, it's one of the one. One of those challenges too, because I think with family, it's. It's difficult with. With, you know, they think a certain way, but it goes down to the same thing. Like, you know, we wanna, you know, to some extent, we want to show them that I'm in love with this person. But then there's still the other side of me that is like, you know what? No, like, screw it. Like, no, you don't have to prove yourself to other people. If you love that person, go for it. But they're still gonna, like, come and tell you stuff. So.
• 45:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. What would you say, or what are your thoughts on. On people who. Let's say they're dating or they're looking for a mate and they're only looking like. Let's say they're on Grindr or whatever app. Yeah. And their age filter is like, you
• 45:48
  Speaker C: know, I was just thinking that, like,
• 45:50
  Speaker B: you know, 40 and up. And they're like, 40 and up.
• 45:52
  Speaker C: Right.
• 45:52
  Speaker B: Yeah. Would you. Or the other way around, whatever it is. But they're only looking in this realm, whether it's younger or older. Do you think that that is an issue? Like, what are your thoughts on that?
• 46:01
  Speaker C: I mean, I think when that happens, the person might be that they've at least. What I've seen from friends is like, they've already experienced it and it didn't go well. So then they. They go, based on that one relationship or that one hookup that didn't go well. That. Then they're like, oh, that's it. I'm never dating somebody less than 35. Right. Or I'm never going to even going to try. So I can Respect that. You know, like you. You still have your. Your. Your little guidelines that you want to follow, but I'm more literally of the mentality of embrace whoever comes in front of you that you might be interested in. And I think that limits us. And, And I go back to the same. My same argument, like, as gay men, that, you know, that limits us, right? When. When someone told us, like, no, you can only date opposite sex. Right. Or opposite gender, that limited us, and that gave us frustration. And we didn't, like, because that's not what we were attracted to. Now being on the other side of. Of the world, right. We came out, we're good. Why are we going to limit ourselves even further? And maybe that's something that we have to unlearn, Right? Because we're missing out on good quality relationships. Because sometimes that Grindr hookup might not be a lover, but it might be a really good friend that you might have met in the process. But we're limiting ourselves from. From those rich relationships.
• 47:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah. One question that I think people could ask as well is, you know, someone's telling me about this, you know, either older or younger person. I'll say, okay, tell me about them without telling me about their age or their body.
• 47:42
  Speaker A: Like, right.
• 47:43
  Speaker B: Tell me about who they are and how they make you feel. Like, let's talk about that side of the conversation. And then if there's a really. If there's a really rich conversation to be had, then like, okay, well, then you're. You're obviously on the right track. If it stops at like, oh, well, he's got, you know, he's a silver fox and he's muscular. I'm like, okay, what else you got? You know, and that. That could really speak to a lot of that kind of like, your first question is like, okay, you know, what, What. What do you love about this person? Yeah. Okay. Going back to the fetishize. Fetishization piece. Yeah. Is there any kind of like, clinical. Like, how do you, as a. As a doctor know when it's something like a fetish versus just an interest or preference?
• 48:27
  Speaker C: It's. Well, when it's a fetish and. And the age difference is. Is a fetish. So that's when we go into, like, that's a particular fetish that the person has. And again, what turns them on, what gets them off is just that, Right? So it's almost like an object fetish. Now, with age, there isn't anything clinically written that says per DSM 5. This is a diagnosis to this day. But when we talk about just objects. And an object doesn't necessarily have to be an automated object. It could be an idea, it could be a thought. That's when you can start focusing on, okay, well, this is. Sounds more like a fetish to me than to anything else, but it's. Again, it goes back to that. Like, my only focus of being with this person is because you are this. Right? And this particular thing could be an age difference. You are, you know, you look like a. Like a child. And then that's when it gets really tricky. I did have patients in the adolescent unit who unfortunately were. We found this out through our interviewing, that they were part of a human trafficking. Especially during COVID there was a lot of just kids on the web. And it's super sad, but it was something that we were able to discover. Obviously, we contacted the authorities, and they started their investigations. So this particular girl will receive packages to dress like a younger person, like a baby. So that's when you start seeing, like, okay, now that is a fetish. So you see how they're. The age difference is like, literally straight up just a sexual fetish. That in this case is. Is considered illegal because this is a minor. Right? So then that's where we doctors, Then we come in and we're like, okay, so we need to assess the individual who's on the other side of the screen right now. We had to assess the adolescent who was dealing with her traumas. Even though there was no physical contact, there were still emotional traumas from that. But then working with the individual on the other side of the screen is what was the biggest challenge. But at the end of the day, what it was, it was a fascination and in a sexual desire for that idea, that object. So that's when we say, okay, this is a fetish. And it's not just like we've been talking about this whole time, right? It's. It's fun. It's beautiful to learn about different ages. And unfortunately, there's still that pattern of. Of thinking, that pattern of behavior for that individual. And I see the brain as a whole, right? And. And I see up someone with depression, someone with that kind of sexual fetish, the same. So my job is, how do I treat them and how do I help them get better? Because there's something really going on in their brain that is not allowing them to. To, you know, to live a healthy adult life. And that's where the thalamus comes in and the. All the other areas of the brain
• 51:47
  Speaker B: Your favorite part of the body, the thalamus.
• 51:50
  Speaker C: Definitely.
• 51:52
  Speaker B: It's so. It's so refreshing to hear you speak about this. And I think this will be very, very helpful for a lot of people. And it just goes to show the importance of having someone to speak to. So, you know, a lot of the times, like I see in the group, there's. Because of all these stigmas, there's a lot of shame attached. And if you're. If you're really wondering, you're really curious, then you know, there are. There are resources out there, Hector, being one of them, where you could ask these questions and you can, you know, dig a little bit deeper. Because what I hate to see is people suffering in silence instead of talking, instead of going to a professional doctor or whatever it may be to talk about it. Right. So many people will just suffer in silence. Yeah. And, I mean, we both know that advocating for your own health, mental, physical, otherwise, is the way to go.
• 52:37
  Speaker C: Definitely. Totally agree.
• 52:40
  Speaker B: All right, Hector, before we wrap up today, do you have any last words on the topic?
• 52:45
  Speaker C: No, I mean, aside from just embrace the. The person that's in front of you and. And really get to know them and. And also at the same time, you'll get to know yourself even better because you probably didn't see things in a different light.
• 53:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, couldn't agree more.
• 53:02
  Speaker C: Go for it.
• 53:04
  Speaker B: And yay to us for the being in the 40 crowd. I'm going to be doing. For anyone listening out there, I'll be doing a lot more content on this because I think it's very real for me. And you guys know that I love to talk about on podcasts, about situations that are very relevant to me in my life. So this year, expect to see a lot more from me about aging, these types of topics. I'll be having more conversations on the podcast and even on my own personal website and Instagram. Okay, Hector, I'm sure people are going to want to talk to you after this episode. So where can people find you?
• 53:37
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah, anytime. I'm pretty active on. On. On Instagram. I'm there, like, all the time. It's literally like my second phone number. So I' I have throughout the day, like, constantly people asking me questions, and I help them, direct them as much as I can. So it's at Dr. Underscore, Hector. And my website is Dr. Hector.com. pretty straightforward. And all the imaging and all the stuff that I'm doing now, I work with the Amen clinics in south Florida, and Dr. Amen is pretty, pretty famous. In his approach of how we treat the brain and brain health. His last book is on the End of Mental Illness. And it's fascinating because we can see how all these parts, all these things that make us unique, it's all coming from our brain. We just have to have better tools to improve its health so then we can function better. So.
• 54:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, your Instagram is awesome.
• 54:34
  Speaker C: I'm trying, I'm trying. Yeah, it's like constantly like so many things that pop into my head of ideas and I'm like, oh, I need to set time to like put him in.
• 54:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, give. Give Hector a follow. That's actually how we met. That's how we got connected. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, yeah, I, I always thought. I didn't know it was a doctor. Amen. I thought it was like, amen, like,
• 54:53
  Speaker C: oh, no, Daniel, Amen.
• 54:57
  Speaker B: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 54:58
  Speaker C: Yeah, cool. Yeah.
• 54:59
  Speaker B: Okay, so that's where you can find Hector. You can find me in the Gaiman's Brotherhood in the Facebook group. If you're not already in there, please join us. We got about 6, 000 plus guys who are interested in topics of. Of personal development, mental health and sexuality. You can find me personally, Michael, at my Instagram, which is Willismo underscore coach. I'm going to link all this in the show notes, guys. You don't have to like remember this or write this down. I'll put it all in the show notes so you can find us easily. And yeah, I guess that's what we've got for you today. So, Hector, thank you so, so much for your time today and your wisdom as always. It's great to get to a chance to talk to with you.
• 55:34
  Speaker C: Thank you so much.
• 55:35
  Speaker B: Okay, thanks everyone. Have a great rest of the day. Bye bye.
• 55:38
  Speaker C: Bye.