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Food, Shame, Weight and Hormones: Into and Through Menopause · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

• 0:05
  Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violence.
• 0:07
  Mary: I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
• 0:13
  Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
• 0:20
  Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
• 0:29
  Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature and flourish.
• 0:34
  Mary: Let's dive in.
• 0:35
  Mary: Hey, violets, welcome to the show.
• 0:42
  Mary: I'm going to admit something that I took for granted when I was younger, and I realize now how much I was unaware of difficulties that others faced.
• 0:50
  Mary: I always had a wicked fast metabolism.
• 0:53
  Mary: While I never felt like I was pretty in high school I mean, I was smart, I was a band geek I just thought that disqualified me from reaching popularity, which I believed included being pretty.
• 1:05
  Mary: I would have settled for cute.
• 1:06
  Mary: But one thing I never worried about or even gave a thought to was my weight.
• 1:11
  Mary: I could honestly eat whatever I wanted Until I couldn't.
• 1:15
  Mary: I remember the first time I gained weight I was in graduate school and I found cellulite on my thighs.
• 1:22
  Mary: However, I changed my eating habits.
• 1:25
  Mary: I was working in a restaurant at the time, so bacon and soda were staples, and I started to walk more and bam weight gone.
• 1:32
  Mary: In fact, I ended up weighing less than before I gained the weight in the first place.
• 1:37
  Mary: So for those of you starting to hate me, or at least rolling your eyes, the playing field has evened up.
• 1:43
  Mary: Somewhere along the way.
• 1:45
  Mary: I gained weight that I cannot lose, at least by the means I used to use when I was younger.
• 1:50
  Mary: I think at least part of the issue is that I had thyroid cancer.
• 1:54
  Mary: That was 25 years ago and I had my entire thyroid removed, and about three years ago I recognized that the standard prescription, levothyroxine, was no longer working the way it should or had in my body.
• 2:06
  Mary: Hormones are so complex and are extremely interdependent on each other, so the effects of my lack of a thyroid are still impacting me, even though I made a medication change.
• 2:17
  Mary: And hormonal changes in midlife, including estrogen and progesterone, are one of the issues that make weight gain so frustrating for women Also.
• 2:26
  Mary: I have changed a lot about how and what I eat.
• 2:29
  Mary: I've shifted my goals from achieving a certain number on the scale to making healthy choices, prioritizing sleep and movement.
• 2:36
  Mary: But I'm not going to lie Some days I still long for the days when my weight wasn't a source of frustration when I went clothes shopping or was invited to a pool party.
• 2:46
  Mary: So I'm delighted to talk with my guest today.
• 2:49
  Mary: I suspect she will have many tips we can use to get healthy and support wellness.
• 2:55
  Mary: Heather Carey is a nutritionist and healthy eating cooking instructor who shows women how to love their midlife through ditching diet mentality and making peace with food.
• 3:06
  Mary: Becoming empowered in the kitchen and knowing the essential habits to lose weight and feel your best are what have led her hundreds of clients to healthy success.
• 3:16
  Mary: Heather sees women one-on-one for private coaching, group workshops and interactive cooking classes, and she also teaches healthy online cooking classes and wellness webinars to corporations.
• 3:28
  Mary: She's also the host of Real Food Stories podcast.
• 3:33
  Mary: Welcome to no Shrinking Violets.
• 3:35
  Mary: Heather, I'm so glad you're here.
• 3:36
  Mary: Thank you.
• 3:37
  Heather: Mary, it's really nice to be here today and I love talking about food.
• 3:42
  Heather: I love talking about food, weight, all the issues that go around how we nourish our bodies, and especially now in midlife and menopause, because I know that this is such a controversial and confusing time for so many women.
• 3:59
  Mary: Yeah, for sure.
• 4:00
  Mary: Okay.
• 4:01
  Mary: So I like to start with kind of getting an idea from my guests like how did you get on this path?
• 4:10
  Mary: Were there things that you ran into that were challenges that sort of made this part of your story where you are now and what you do to help other women.
• 4:21
  Heather: Sure, well, I could say my story started back when I was a child.
• 4:24
  Heather: I had a different story than you did.
• 4:28
  Heather: I was not heavy as a child, but from my mother and my father about maybe wanting to lose a few pounds.
• 4:39
  Heather: And you know, as I remember being about 11 years old at that time, I mean that really hit me very hard and that said to me you're not good enough.
• 5:01
  Heather: You know how you are and I really was not obese or you know, or just you know had a huge problem with it.
• 5:09
  Heather: But it set me down a road to trying diets.
• 5:16
  Heather: I remember my mother handed me a diet from a magazine I don't know if back then, you know, like those magazine diets and and it just set me on a path of being on and off diets and I got used to that and I think that for a lot of women we get used to that you are either on a diet, being good, you know, and strict and restricting, and then you can barely take it anymore and you go off the diet and maybe you gain the weight back and then and it's just this rollercoaster of being on and off um diets like that, punishing yourself, and so that's really where it started for me with my body image and you know my, my realization with emotional eating and, and, and then I.
• 6:07
  Heather: But I was also very interested in food and the relationship between how food can affect us and our health and I ended up going to cooking school.
• 6:18
  Heather: I loved cooking and in my in my early 20s, I went to cooking school that was focused very much on health support of cooking and I loved the relationship between food and healing.
• 6:32
  Heather: And I was working as a private chef.
• 6:36
  Heather: I was really in the food world and I wanted to get even more experience to be able to coach and counsel people on their specific health issues.
• 6:49
  Heather: So I went back and got my master's degree in clinical nutrition and those two things were really a compliment for each other, because not only then did I know the science of nutrition, but I know how to take food and put it into practice into real world situations in your own kitchen, because we have to.
• 7:10
  Heather: It's one thing to talk about food.
• 7:12
  Heather: It's another thing to know how to use food or eat food and prepare it so it tastes good and delicious.
• 7:21
  Heather: So it's been, yeah, so it's been a lifelong journey for me of of making peace with food and you know, even.
• 7:29
  Heather: But then back in like my thirties and early forties, I was still, even though I went and had gotten my master's degree in nutrition.
• 7:38
  Heather: I knew about counting calories and fat grams and protein and and and all of it.
• 7:44
  Heather: I was still kind of mired in that diet mentality with myself.
• 7:50
  Heather: And so not until I really learned how to give myself a lot of kindness and compassion around how difficult this is sometimes did I end up losing some baby weight to lose and that I just wasn't, that I was holding onto.
• 8:09
  Heather: I was a big emotional eater and I learned, you know, just with kindness and compassion how to make more peace with it and be okay with it.
• 8:19
  Heather: And I did lose weight and I've kept it off since then.
• 8:23
  Heather: So that's pretty much my journey in a little bit of a nutshell.
• 8:27
  Mary: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:28
  Mary: Well, I really don't know anybody who doesn't at some point struggle with food.
• 8:34
  Mary: So you brought up a lot of rich things in that, and so the one that I want to kind of pull the thread on first is this idea of food as we sort of demonize food.
• 8:46
  Mary: You know, it's all about good food and bad food, and so many women say I was bad today, and so we start to take our food choices and then we make that about this broad stroke of like we are a bad person because we had a cupcake, so how do you weave that into what you do?
• 9:07
  Mary: Because you mentioned emotional eating and I'm not sure everyone knows what that means, but that's all connected, right.
• 9:14
  Heather: Yeah, I think that, well, emotional eating to me means that you're just connecting food with your emotions.
• 9:25
  Heather: If you're having a bad day, let's grab some ice cream to make us feel better, right, to kind of just try to soothe ourselves.
• 9:33
  Heather: And I learned that a long time ago.
• 9:37
  Heather: My dad died when I was very young, when I was about 14.
• 9:40
  Heather: And I remember clearly connecting these two things.
• 9:46
  Heather: The only thing that was really making me feel better was to eat a cookie or to, you know, eat some ice cream or or anything like that, and I became this kind of emotional eater in that sense, and so, yeah, then you turn it into, then that's bad.
• 10:09
  Heather: Maybe you're eating to comfort yourself and I did something bad today.
• 10:15
  Heather: I ate something, but there really is no bad food.
• 10:20
  Heather: I mean there is no bad food and I think that food I mean there is no bad food and I think that I mean food is complicated and nourishment is physical and emotional.
• 10:30
  Heather: Right, we need to physically eat, we need to nourish ourselves physically for our energy, our health and everything, but we then choose to feed ourselves with, you know, is then another conversation.
• 10:51
  Heather: I guess you know that we could make different choices or we could just pause, be more mindful with our food.
• 10:59
  Heather: Understand that there is no food in the world that is going to fix your bad day.
• 11:06
  Heather: You know that, that that having a bad day and then and taking it out on pizza is not going to fix the bad day.
• 11:14
  Heather: And I'm sure you have clients you know like this, that that just become like a very right.
• 11:21
  Heather: We attach food to helping us and it's okay.
• 11:27
  Heather: It's fine because food gets confusing, but I think we need to learn to separate that.
• 11:35
  Heather: But, going back to what you said, there is really no bad food and if that happens to us and we do eat a pint of ice cream because we had a terrible fight with our spouse, it's okay.
• 11:53
  Heather: We want to just also give ourselves a lot of grace and a lot of compassion and it's okay.
• 11:58
  Heather: We start over again the next day and we learn from it, just like you would talk to a good friend or just someone that you really love.
• 12:10
  Heather: Food is very powerful and things happen and it's really okay.
• 12:18
  Mary: Yeah Well, and first I want to kind of point out you have an entire podcast about this topic, so we're trying to sort of take all these little tidbits and highlights and put them into less than an hour.
• 12:29
  Mary: But the one thing too that I want to point out it's really a lot of times in our SAD, our Standard American Diet, which there's, you know, it's kind of funny that it's called SAD, even though it's not really funny because it's true sad, even though it's not really funny because it's true, sugar has so much power because it really does make our brains tell us that we feel better, but it then becomes a vicious cycle.
• 12:51
  Mary: So that is something where, when you're talking about having that grace, I think it's important to understand that we're not weak because we lean into those things.
• 13:01
  Mary: I think as you learn more, we lean into those things.
• 13:04
  Mary: I think as you learn more it becomes easier to make a decision.
• 13:08
  Mary: And that's where we want to take that sometimes step back from the emotion and think for a minute, because sometimes that can really help right To think about.
• 13:19
  Mary: Okay, I know what sugar does to my cells it literally depletes the minerals.
• 13:21
  Mary: So, being more maybe intentional about I'm going to have this cupcake because I just really want it right now.
• 13:29
  Mary: But we know that sugar causes more craving, so I think it's important to kind of highlight that that was created.
• 13:37
  Mary: That idea of this table sugar, this white sugar, was really created by us and it's very powerful for us physiologically because it does create sort of that high feeling.
• 13:52
  Mary: It's a sugar high, which brings me around to something that you mentioned, and really what you're spending your life doing, making food that's healthy, taste good, I think that can be.
• 14:04
  Mary: That's where I think it's overwhelming.
• 14:06
  Mary: Where do you even start?
• 14:08
  Mary: So when you have somebody that comes to you and you, I'm assuming you kind of review what they've been eating, what their you know what their nutrition has been and you're finding, okay, there's a lot of processed food in there.
• 14:21
  Mary: What's a starting point?
• 14:23
  Mary: So where can somebody start if they're not sure where they should start?
• 14:30
  Heather: Well, I think that's such a good point about the sugar, and I think one thing that I do with a lot of my clients is to just first give some education, because I think a lot of people don't know how addicting sugar can be.
• 14:46
  Heather: Now, sugar is not cocaine or alcohol, but it can be, I think, physically.
• 14:54
  Heather: I mean it lights up your brain, you know, and then we attach it to maybe an emotional thing and and you know, and then you get into a habit of it's, a reward at the end of the day, right, or whatever.
• 15:10
  Heather: We, we attach it to so many, so many things and it tastes good, it does, I mean it it's, you know, and and we celebrate with, so we have birthday cake, and and so it's, we have some positive associations with it.
• 15:25
  Heather: But I think we need to be educated that sugar has gone from being a treat, you know, and every once in a while, food to sugar isn't everything.
• 15:37
  Heather: Everything.
• 15:39
  Heather: Every food product, every, every packaged food product you could imagine has sugar in it.
• 15:44
  Heather: Bread has sugar in it.
• 15:45
  Heather: I mean, so it's so.
• 15:47
  Heather: We want to just get ourselves educated first of all.
• 15:51
  Heather: On, on, on, just to know that we might want to have some limits on it.
• 15:56
  Heather: Sugar is empty calories, it tastes good, it doesn't do anything for you otherwise and we want our food to count.
• 16:05
  Heather: You know, when we eat food we want it to do something good for us, not just emotionally but for our health.
• 16:15
  Heather: So that's where I really start with clients.
• 16:19
  Heather: And then getting into the kitchen of people say they don't know how to make their food taste good.
• 16:25
  Heather: Because if I'm trying to steer someone into eating healthier and more vegetables and whole grains which sounds so boring to people because a lot of people say to me and you know, and whole grains which sounds so boring to people because a lot of people say to me, like, I just don't like vegetables.
• 16:39
  Heather: If you don't know how to make them taste good, I get it.
• 16:43
  Heather: If you're used to just steamed broccoli with nothing on it, yeah, who wants to eat that?
• 16:48
  Heather: So that's you know, using spices and healthy fats and you know there's things that go into flavoring your food that can make your food taste delicious, and then you start to crave those foods because they taste so good.
• 17:06
  Heather: So that's where I really start with people.
• 17:09
  Heather: You know the education and then teaching people the skills to make your food taste as good as it can.
• 17:20
  Mary: Yeah Well, and I think too it's not fast.
• 17:23
  Mary: So I mentioned in my intro I loved soda, like that was my thing, or pop, if you're from Western Pennsylvania, that was my thing.
• 17:33
  Mary: I love soda and once I mean, it took a long time to really back off because that's corn syrup, which is even worse.
• 17:41
  Mary: So your palate has to adjust.
• 17:44
  Mary: So when you're talking about using spices and things, in the beginning it might be kind of bland because we're used to a certain way of eating.
• 17:55
  Mary: But I think that adjustment, that slow adjustment because you talked too in the beginning about this swing like we'll say I'm not eating anything bad and then it's exhausting to make those healthy choices all the time.
• 18:09
  Mary: It can really be kind of discouraging.
• 18:12
  Mary: So starting slow with education, I really I love that idea.
• 18:19
  Heather: So, yeah, I mean.
• 18:20
  Heather: So the sugar.
• 18:21
  Heather: I don't want to ever say that, like all, sugar is bad.
• 18:24
  Heather: We can't eat sugar, right?
• 18:26
  Heather: We want to be and I mentioned this word before just mindful with it.
• 18:31
  Heather: Right?
• 18:32
  Heather: Sometimes you are having a craving for a cookie, you are having a bad day and you just really want it.
• 18:41
  Heather: But I want my clients to just take a pause and see if you can go and do something else in its place.
• 18:52
  Heather: Go talk to a friend, go take a walk, leave your kitchen something else in its place.
• 18:56
  Heather: Go talk to a friend, go take a walk, leave your kitchen, try to do something else.
• 18:58
  Heather: If that craving, if you can't get that cookie out of your head, by all means have the cookie, it's okay.
• 19:10
  Heather: But at least you're doing it mindfully, right?
• 19:12
  Heather: You are making a conscious decision to have it, rather than just wandering back and forth into the kitchen grabbing a couple of cookies and then, oh wow, the bag of cookies is gone, like what happened.
• 19:22
  Heather: You know and you don't even realize that you have been that you ate half the bag, right?
• 19:27
  Heather: So I I think it's important.
• 19:30
  Heather: That's an important distinction as to it's okay to have sugar every once in a while.
• 19:36
  Mary: Yeah.
• 19:37
  Heather: But let's do it mindfully, and so we, you know.
• 19:41
  Heather: So we're not then going into like a full blown regret about it.
• 19:49
  Mary: Yeah, yeah, and you mentioned this there are different kinds of sweeteners and they're not all created equal.
• 19:55
  Mary: So you know that's sort of a topic for a whole other podcast.
• 20:01
  Heather: But well, yeah, I mean, well, I mean, I mean, I can.
• 20:04
  Heather: I can just say this that, yes, there are different sweeteners.
• 20:08
  Heather: I mean sugar, white table sugar is like is at the top.
• 20:12
  Heather: Sugar is like is like is at the top.
• 20:13
  Heather: But we can also learn to lower our sweet threshold, right, because once you get into sugar, like that processed sugar as your, as your sweet level it's, you know, it's hard to say, like, just go eat an apple, yeah, you know, like you want something sweet, go eat an apple because it doesn't taste as sweet.
• 20:37
  Heather: Right, so we, that's another mindful exercise, I think, is to just try to lower your sweet threshold a little bit, because our, our taste buds are hijacked right now with all our, with all the processed foods.
• 20:51
  Heather: So if we can get it to a point where, like, some pineapple or watermelon is like is sweet enough, yeah, that's, that's great too.
• 21:01
  Mary: Yeah, yeah, it's gradual.
• 21:02
  Mary: So I think there is hope because I've adjusted my palate a lot and things that were confusing before, like how do I make kale taste good, or what is this stuff called flax and chia seed?
• 21:13
  Mary: I think those are things as we, you know, adding in things slowly with a sense of adventure.
• 21:18
  Mary: But, okay, let's take the off ramp now that everybody's been waiting for.
• 21:22
  Mary: So I wanna talk about women hitting perimenopause, going into menopause and this whole idea, first of all, of hormones.
• 21:31
  Mary: So I don't know where you wanna start with this, but is there an easy way to kind of explain why does this happen to us, this weight gain?
• 21:39
  Mary: For one thing?
• 21:40
  Mary: I mean, a lot of things happen, right, hot flashes and brain fog, but the weight gain specifically is obviously for women and how we're socialized.
• 21:47
  Mary: That's what other people can see and I think it's the biggest source of shame potentially.
• 21:54
  Mary: So is there a way to break this down so women can understand a little bit about what is going on?
• 22:04
  Heather: Yeah, so I know it's.
• 22:05
  Heather: I mean menopause, the whole topic of perimenopause, menopause, postmenopause I call it the menopause transition, menopause, I call it the menopause transition is is very loaded, especially right now, because if you go out onto the internet and on social media, I mean it is having its moment, and not necessarily in a good way.
• 22:26
  Heather: There are supplements, there are anti-aging movements, I mean there are like, all of a sudden, menopause is like a bad.
• 22:33
  Heather: You know, it's like not.
• 22:35
  Heather: We want to like try to really try to battle menopause and the and right besides the hot flashes and night sweats and all the things, and we can talk about all the things that happen when you have this dip in estrogen from our brains down to our toes.
• 22:54
  Heather: I mean we have dozens of symptoms that can happen, but the one symptom I think that most women focus on is this mystery weight gain.
• 23:05
  Heather: That, like I just look at food and I gain weight, and this has never happened to me before and I don't know why.
• 23:12
  Heather: And you know I used to be able to diet and I get it, I get it right.
• 23:17
  Heather: When we were in our twenties and thirties, you just you know you had said you could just like make a few minor adjustments, up your exercise a little bit and and boom, like 10 pounds came off and like it was no big deal.
• 23:30
  Heather: And there's a couple of things that go on, I think, just during menopause.
• 23:35
  Heather: Number one our estrogen is not a cause of weight gain, but it's a cause of weight distribution.
• 23:42
  Heather: So we start to gain or we start to move our weight more, sort of into our belly area.
• 23:49
  Heather: It goes, it just sort of sits around our organs a little more, so there's probably an appearance more that we have gained a lot of weight.
• 24:00
  Heather: We're also getting older, our metabolisms are dropping a little bit and so we need to start eating a little less, maybe because weight loss is about going into a calorie deficit and we need to start exercising more, and especially strength training, because strength training helps you gain more muscle.
• 24:28
  Heather: More muscle helps your metabolism, and so strength training becomes really important at this time.
• 24:36
  Heather: But I know for a lot of women myself included, I mean going into this whole transition my body has shifted a lot and it's hard because we, I think, desperately want to stay youthful right and we want to be able to do what we were doing, and it's not working as much, but it's not impossible to lose weight when you are in your 40s and 50s, but we just have to be a little more strategic about it and focus on you know that mindfulness and our stress levels, and there's just other things that go into weight.
• 25:17
  Heather: I think at this point.
• 25:20
  Mary: Yeah.
• 25:21
  Heather: So it's a little it's.
• 25:21
  Heather: I mean, it's not overly complicated, but it's.
• 25:25
  Heather: It's a little more complicated than when we were younger.
• 25:28
  Mary: Yeah, well, and I have an online sleep course with group coaching for women in midlife, and really it is a lifestyle thing.
• 25:37
  Mary: I think we, when we're younger, as you're saying, we reduce the idea of weight to what we eat and how we exercise or how much we exercise, and it isn't that when you hit a certain age and I think there's sort of also an accumulation of life events.
• 25:53
  Mary: So when we're thinking about hormones, we have cortisol as a hormone.
• 26:02
  Mary: We have, you know, our melatonin.
• 26:02
  Mary: If we're not sleeping well or we're not aligned with the rhythms of the day, sleep is, I remember when I read that one of the biggest issues with weight gain, and I think this is just generally, not necessarily just with women in midlife, but people that sleep poorly are way more likely to gain weight, and it has to do with our hormones, that also kind of control when we're hungry and when we feel satiated, right.
• 26:26
  Mary: So all of those things I mean it is complex, but at the same time, I think it sounds like you sort of have some key things that you help people consider when.
• 26:40
  Mary: So these women in midlife, help them consider and simplify it a little bit.
• 26:46
  Mary: So what are some of those things that people can.
• 26:49
  Mary: You mentioned a lot of things movement and you know strength training so if they're just starting, they're sort of feeling this frustration.
• 27:00
  Mary: And you're right with the internet, I think it's doing a huge disservice because you can't just buy something that's going to work for everybody.
• 27:09
  Mary: Everybody's so different.
• 27:11
  Mary: Like what works for me is not going to work for you, and vice versa.
• 27:14
  Mary: So that's part of it too.
• 27:16
  Mary: It's like when we change our eating, there's no quick fix, and I think we're used to, especially in the United States, in our Western society of, like, I want to take one thing and get one result, which is probably why Ozempic and those types of things took off so quickly, because we've sort of clung to that as, like here's the answer, which that's also way more complicated what those things do in our bodies.
• 27:42
  Mary: So it's not simple, but I think it can be something that can be distilled down into sort of here are some guideposts or some things to consider, are some guideposts or some things to consider.
• 27:58
  Mary: So how would you help someone just push through all this noise, all this confusion, and kind of step back and just focus on some things for themselves?
• 28:05
  Heather: Well, I think the first thing I would say is to get off of the noise of the internet.
• 28:11
  Heather: I mean, I go on Instagram and mostly just because I'm sort of investigating what's going on out there, and it's just really dizzying.
• 28:21
  Heather: I mean the amount of supplements, diets, anti-aging products it's overwhelming and all of a sudden, just because we are in our late 40s and 50s and 60s does not mean that we suddenly have to like adopt some new, brand new lifestyle, you know, and radically like change things like that and start taking thousands of dollars in pills and powders every month, month, I mean.
• 28:59
  Heather: So I I think I want everyone to just sort of take a deep breath around on this stuff, cause, first of all there, I don't know of a single supplement that helps with menopause.
• 29:06
  Heather: There is no one proven supplement that is going to help fix your menopause symptoms, make you lose weight or give you more energy.
• 29:16
  Heather: It just does not exist.
• 29:18
  Heather: But the internet wants you to believe that and there's plenty of even like menopause trained doctors who want you to believe that too, and it's just not something that you need to lean into or feel scared if you don't take it or you can't afford that stuff.
• 29:38
  Heather: I like to focus more on the things that we can control, and a couple of things.
• 29:44
  Heather: Like you said, sleep is so important.
• 29:48
  Heather: It is probably one of the.
• 29:50
  Heather: It is, if not the most important thing, because if you are not having a good night's sleep, that, like you said, affects your cortisol levels.
• 30:00
  Heather: Cortisol is your stress hormone.
• 30:02
  Heather: Cortisol definitely will also affect your metabolism.
• 30:06
  Heather: That because you, once you're like just stressed out, you know like all the time you are on high alert, you're wired, you're tired, you're and and it you need, then your brain is in the business of like staying on high alert and fighting, you know, your fatigue, everything which then lowers your metabolism.
• 30:29
  Heather: So we really want to focus on getting a great night's sleep, which is not always possible.
• 30:33
  Heather: When we are in midlife and menopause, I you know Our sleep can get very disrupted, especially if you are having symptoms like night sweats and those are waking you up.
• 30:45
  Heather: And if you are, you might want to consider hormones.
• 30:49
  Heather: Going on hormone therapy.
• 30:51
  Heather: It's not for everybody, it's a very individual choice, but it can be a great choice, you know, because once you get a good night's sleep and you're not getting woken up by having night sweats, it can really make a huge difference and you know.
• 31:07
  Heather: So the other things, exercise.
• 31:10
  Heather: I think there's sort of a belief, I think, with some women, that once we get into our like fifties and sixties, we can start reducing extras, like we don't have to exercise as much, we don't have to go.
• 31:23
  Heather: I've been going to the gym for decades and doing bootcamp classes and now I can just go take a walk, you know, and not have to worry about over-exercising.
• 31:35
  Heather: But the truth is, this is the time that we need to start really not taking those crazy bootcamp classes, but really start getting stronger and, like I said before, for our metabolism, right, for just overall strength.
• 31:50
  Heather: Plus, we want to be able to, plus, we want to be able to lift our grandchildren when we're older and lift our grocery bags.
• 32:00
  Heather: We want to start thinking about the future, like that, not falling I mean, it's all stuff that we don't think about at all when we are in our 30s and 40s, but when you start to get a little older, right, we want to we have to start thinking about, about those kinds of things.
• 32:16
  Heather: And you know, and then for me most importantly, I think, is our food, and we want to really focus on our food Now.
• 32:26
  Heather: Food is not going to fix hormones.
• 32:28
  Heather: It's not going to take your hot flashes away.
• 32:31
  Heather: There is no food that will help some of these really vexing menopause symptoms.
• 32:38
  Heather: But when we do have this dip in estrogen, that brings on a whole host of different health issues that can crop up Heart issues, diabetes, cholesterol, cholesterol.
• 32:59
  Heather: I mean so from, you know, like from our head down to our toes.
• 33:01
  Heather: Estrogen affects everything and food can really help with those things with our heart, with our bones, with our, you know, with helping to regulate our blood sugar.
• 33:11
  Heather: So that's where food really takes center stage and that's what I like to focus on.
• 33:17
  Mary: Yeah, and I think the thing that changed for me the most was when I or how I would consume my food.
• 33:25
  Mary: So, for instance, caffeine I really try not to have caffeine afternoon because I know now how much that was impacting my sleep and I know I have young people in my life who are like I can have caffeine at 9 pm and sleep fine.
• 33:39
  Mary: Well, maybe I could have done that when I was 18.
• 33:42
  Mary: So I think that's the biggest lesson that I've learned is that you have to adjust how you think about things.
• 33:49
  Mary: And alcohol, alcohol, sugar, so not having that too late at night.
• 33:55
  Mary: It's not that you have to necessarily stop, although I know I don't tolerate it as well.
• 34:00
  Mary: I get headaches, I feel.
• 34:02
  Mary: So listening to your body.
• 34:04
  Mary: But I think, being aware of, as you mentioned a bit ago, we celebrate in this society with food, let's go to dinner, let's have drinks.
• 34:15
  Mary: It's built into the very fabric of the way we interact with each other.
• 34:20
  Mary: So I've just started to.
• 34:22
  Mary: I'm that in that group now where I have dinner by six o'clock, you know.
• 34:28
  Mary: So we're going to Europe in a couple of weeks.
• 34:30
  Mary: I'm like I don't know what I'm going to do because it's you know, it's just different.
• 34:34
  Mary: But if I'm going to have a drink, I'm very intentional about that, like I want it done by like 530, because there's a half-life.
• 34:44
  Mary: You know, alcohol stays in your system and sometimes when we have that waking in the middle of the night, that has to do with alcohol.
• 34:52
  Mary: So I think it's just as you're really saying get educated.
• 34:57
  Mary: And you also mentioned something that I think is really important that we dread to celebrate this time of life and just to learn.
• 35:05
  Mary: Get together, have fun, learn, because I can tell you I'm pretty much through menopause.
• 35:22
  Mary: Life is great.
• 35:23
  Mary: There's a lot of things that are different now and joyful, and things you don't need to worry about.
• 35:30
  Mary: And I think this acceptance of, yeah, I have to do things differently, I can't just have, like I did in college, cheesesteaks and pizza five out of the seven days.
• 35:41
  Mary: So it's really, I think, making these small adjustments so it doesn't feel like you're suffering or I did go through that myself too Like I can't believe there's another thing I need to give up.
• 35:52
  Mary: But, as you're saying, you teach people how to build in healthy things in a way that you get to a point and you're like, oh wow, like I never knew this could taste so good and there are very few things that I miss or that I mourn anymore not having.
• 36:11
  Mary: I think it's just that acceptance of there are gifts to this time of life, but there are also just things that you, just you have to make adjustments to you are perimenopausal, you hit menopause, which is a one year without your period, and then you are postmenopausal for the rest of your life.
• 36:43
  Heather: So I and I understand what you're saying that it's like you're probably you're done with, like the wild ride of hormones maybe and, and, but we're we're always in menopause.
• 36:51
  Heather: I mean that dip in estrogen is always going to be there, right?
• 36:55
  Heather: So we want to learn how to, I think, embrace it and take the best care of ourselves.
• 37:05
  Heather: I think it's really about shifting our focus from what we can't do anymore with the caffeine and alcohol and I'll talk about that in a second but to this radical self-care that we want to give ourselves.
• 37:20
  Heather: Right, because maybe back in our 20s and 30s we've been sort of neglecting ourselves or doing things and dieting just for the sake of the way we look or the number on the scale.
• 37:32
  Heather: Right?
• 37:32
  Heather: This is not so much about the number on the scale anymore.
• 37:36
  Heather: This is about our health.
• 37:37
  Heather: This is the time to get serious about our health.
• 37:40
  Heather: This is when things crop up.
• 37:42
  Heather: I mean heart disease, for example, stays pretty low for women until we hit menopause and then all of a sudden it goes right.
• 37:51
  Heather: Then our rate of heart attacks and heart disease is right up there with men.
• 37:55
  Heather: I mean so.
• 37:55
  Heather: And that then then our, our rate of heart attacks and heart disease is right up there with men, I mean so.
• 37:58
  Heather: And and that is because of our this estrogen dip.
• 38:02
  Heather: So we and that doesn't go away, the estrogen.
• 38:06
  Heather: So we want to right.
• 38:08
  Heather: So we really really want to focus on taking care of ourselves.
• 38:13
  Heather: Now I mean back to like alcohol and caffeine.
• 38:15
  Heather: I know I've I still have friends even to this day who are like, oh, I can drink caffeine at nine o'clock at night, me, no, I, if I drink after like 10 in the morning, I'm like up all night long.
• 38:29
  Heather: So I'm very sensitive to caffeine and um, and so we want to consider that, that maybe getting off our reliance on caffeine a little bit more I mean caffeine also can be a real can aggravate your pelvic health, your bladder, you know these are other things, right, that we want to consider as women in midlife.
• 38:52
  Heather: And alcohol is I know you mentioned that it's like sugar, but it's really alcohol is really a toxin.
• 39:02
  Heather: I mean alcohol can contribute to so many health issues Breast cancer, for one of them.
• 39:10
  Heather: I mean our heart, you know, and our moods, our energy, right, keeping us up in the middle of the night.
• 39:17
  Heather: I mean, it really can affect our sleep so much.
• 39:37
  Heather: So I think alcohol is like sugar, you know you want to look at it as like that every once in a while treat, you know, rather than like something that you're doing every single day at the end of the day to help you relax.
• 39:45
  Heather: And that's easier than done sometimes, but it's the trade-off I think is worth it to you know, remove some of these things out of our lifestyle.
• 39:53
  Mary: Alcohol as you get older, because when you're young I think you can feel like if I decide I'm not going to drink and everybody else is at the bar drinking, they're going to be like what's going on?
• 40:01
  Mary: Or are you pregnant?
• 40:02
  Mary: You know, kind of there has to be a reason, a big reason we're not having alcohol.
• 40:06
  Mary: And I think as you get older, especially when you're surrounded by women your age, they get it Like it's and you also don't care as much what other people think.
• 40:15
  Mary: And so thank you for kind of reframing this idea of being through menopause, because I think for me you nailed it.
• 40:21
  Mary: I'm like I don't have these mood swings and I rarely get a hot flash.
• 40:27
  Mary: For me it was all about when I had my morning coffee or if I had an alcoholic drink I would start to feel the furnace start inside of me.
• 40:36
  Mary: But a lot of that is passed for me, and I do have an estradiol patch, and so you mentioned hormone replacement therapy.
• 40:44
  Mary: Women that are older might still remember when all of a sudden it was like it's so dangerous, it's going to give you breast cancer, and that was actually research findings that were not really portrayed accurately.
• 40:59
  Mary: So if you're really struggling, I mean you can find functional gynecologists that will say you can start estrogen anytime.
• 41:10
  Mary: I don't know if that's true, I don't have the expertise, but I think if you're really struggling then maybe it's a conversation to have with your doctor and start with the lowest dose and see what happens.
• 41:25
  Heather: Yes, that's such a good point.
• 41:26
  Heather: There was a study done back in the 2000s that suddenly, I mean a lot of women were on hormone therapy back then and they were doing this very large study and which they pulled very suddenly because they thought that there was a very definitive link between breast cancer and estrogen and it put the entire country into a tizzy.
• 41:55
  Heather: I mean, every woman who was on hormone therapy or almost every woman all of a sudden went off of it and that, to me, was a crime, because they found out now, years later, that there was tons of flaws in that study.
• 42:11
  Heather: It wasn't true, there was really.
• 42:14
  Heather: No, there's no connection between breast cancer and that estrogen for most women is very safe to use.
• 42:22
  Heather: Not all women, I mean some.
• 42:25
  Heather: You know, if you have cancer and it's something you definitely want to be discussing with your doctor, it's a very personal choice too.
• 42:31
  Heather: But there was so much fear around hormones and then it just turned into, I think, then with like this, then the next generation, just something you had to tough out right, we couldn't go on hormones.
• 42:46
  Heather: I mean, I have my first go around with going on hormones because I knew a lot back then and I thought I'm definitely going on hormone therapy.
• 42:56
  Heather: I do not want to have hot flashes, I don't want to, and and I.
• 43:05
  Heather: But I got a lot of pushback from my doctors about it and it was very secretive, most women.
• 43:07
  Heather: No one talked about it.
• 43:08
  Heather: We didn't want to like it was like you know, and I could barely tell, like friends, that I was on hormone therapy.
• 43:16
  Heather: But it's now come full circle.
• 43:19
  Heather: I think there's a there's.
• 43:20
  Heather: That is the one good thing about the internet and maybe, like Oprah Winfrey, like talking about hormones, hormones are really okay for most women, plus all those health issues I talked about heart disease, diabetes, your bone health, which is so important all are benefit from being on hormones.
• 43:42
  Heather: Yeah, so it's.
• 43:44
  Heather: It's definitely something to consider and it's not dangerous for most women and it's and it can be really helpful and give you a lot of other health benefits.
• 43:59
  Heather: And, yes, you don't have to be 45 years old to start.
• 44:03
  Heather: I mean it would be good to start it in perimenopause, but I have friends who are now in their 60s, who are just because they were living in a lot of fear, are now just starting hormones.
• 44:18
  Mary: Yeah, and I think the other side of the coin we talked about where we're inundated with all of this you should do this and take this and this is going to solve the problem.
• 44:25
  Mary: We also have a lot more information.
• 44:28
  Mary: We're more open about it.
• 44:29
  Mary: You know, it's not.
• 44:30
  Mary: I think in my mom's generation and she would be 98 if she was still living I don't even remember her going through menopause.
• 44:37
  Mary: I mean, she got pregnant at 44 with my sister and I think she thought that was menopause but it wasn't.
• 44:43
  Mary: I think in that generation it was like you just suffer through it because you don't talk about it.
• 44:49
  Mary: You know, it's this whole strengthen, like I'm fine, everybody's fine, and I think now we're starting to I mean being led by the younger generation of maybe too much out there on TikTok, but now it's sort of like well, look, here's what I'm suffering with.
• 45:04
  Mary: What are you suffering with?
• 45:05
  Mary: And understanding that someone else's choice might not be what we choose to do.
• 45:10
  Mary: But yeah, there are some people that they'll start estrogen and feel great and other people it won't work for.
• 45:16
  Mary: But whatever, I think whatever people try, I think it's important that they know there's nothing wrong with you.
• 45:22
  Mary: If this isn't working for you.
• 45:24
  Mary: You know it's finding the combination for your specific body, that's important.
• 45:31
  Heather: Yes, and I want to just add too if you have a doctor who is not open to talking to you about hormones, go find another doctor.
• 45:39
  Heather: There's plenty of doctors who should be very open to talking about hormones.
• 45:46
  Heather: You can go on the Menopause Society that they have a directory of menopause-trained physicians on there and that's really the governing body for menopause.
• 45:57
  Heather: So don't give up if this is something you want to explore and your doctor is not open to it.
• 46:04
  Heather: Because I mean my doctor when I first.
• 46:07
  Heather: This is now a while back, but when I first told my primary care physician that I was taking estrogen, she told me that she would rather go to jail than be on hormones because she was brainwashed by that study, that old-fashioned study, and you know so I knew better.
• 46:37
  Heather: Just to ignore her.
• 46:38
  Heather: But there are some doctors who really are not educated in hormones and every doctor should be educated on how.
• 46:47
  Heather: This is not like rocket science.
• 46:48
  Heather: So find a new doctor if your doctor is giving you a pushback.
• 46:55
  Mary: Yeah, and I think women are going to start to demand it because, like you're saying, like we know, we're starting to be educated.
• 47:01
  Mary: So when we run up against something like that, it doesn't have to be, oh okay, I must be wrong.
• 47:08
  Mary: It's like, well, okay, let me find somebody else that might be more open.
• 47:10
  Mary: So, yeah, I love that, okay.
• 47:13
  Mary: So I want to talk a little bit before we end about sort of what you think is going to come down the pike.
• 47:20
  Mary: So we are in the United States there's starting to be some changes, like food dyes you know it's whatever you feel about all that, whatever, but that to me is a positive taking dyes out of foods.
• 47:35
  Mary: I know I spent time in Italy and in a lot of countries like that, people grow, you see, gardens, everybody has a garden.
• 47:42
  Mary: There's a different sort of mindset about food and eating and meals are not sit down, shovel the food into your face and get up and do the next thing.
• 47:52
  Mary: A lot of times they are sort of times to talk and share and the food just happens to be part of it, but it's not typically a rushed affair.
• 48:02
  Mary: So I think in the United States we just have a different.
• 48:06
  Mary: This whole idea of food is just often different.
• 48:10
  Mary: Do you see us moving a little bit more in a direction of knowing where our food comes from and being more educated, or what do you?
• 48:23
  Heather: what do you think is going to happen in maybe the next five years?
• 48:26
  Heather: That's a great question.
• 48:28
  Heather: I I totally agree with you.
• 48:29
  Heather: I think if everyone could have a garden I am.
• 48:30
  Heather: I am a obsessive organic vegetable gardener, so I am very biased towards that, because I think there's nothing that tastes better than going into your garden, picking tomatoes and you know, and having your basil and making your own food like that I think we are.
• 48:51
  Heather: Though what's going on now with food dyes and seed oils and other things like that has gone a little off the rails, I think.
• 49:02
  Heather: I mean, I think it's fine to ban food, certain food dyes.
• 49:07
  Heather: I think something else is going to just come in and replace it, and so I think all the effort for banning food dyes I don't know, we'll have to see, you know what, what that results, but I don't know how much people are going to learn from that, yeah, and and then then there's things like seed oils, which I know seed oils are are perfectly safe.
• 49:34
  Heather: So there's things that I think get blown up on social media that then just create a lot of fear.
• 49:43
  Heather: So I think, rather than focusing all the things that we cannot be eating or shouldn't be eating, or let's focus on just getting back to the basics and eating a lot of fruits and vegetables and whole grains and healthy fats and good for you protein, and I think we don't have to overcomplicate things.
• 50:11
  Heather: That's what I'm hoping will happen because, honestly, sometimes I I think to myself there's no more diets that could be created right in the world, like how, how many more like high protein, low fat, low carb, I mean there's an.
• 50:29
  Heather: All of a sudden we have, you know, the now it's.
• 50:32
  Heather: You know we're obsessed with protein, which I think is fine.
• 50:36
  Heather: I think, as women in midlife, we definitely need to bump up in protein, but we don't have to become overly obsessed with it.
• 50:42
  Heather: So I'm hoping in the next five years there will just be just a little more peace around food.
• 50:51
  Heather: Just stick to the basics.
• 50:54
  Heather: We don't have to overcomplicate everything.
• 50:56
  Heather: And, yeah, if we could get more mindful about like, sitting down with our families and just like and eating and relaxing around food, that would be, that would be wonderful.
• 51:10
  Mary: Yeah Well, and that the idea of you know the food dyes it is.
• 51:15
  Mary: You bring up a really good point that we think it's everything is black or white, so let's go the whole way to one side.
• 51:23
  Mary: But I think there.
• 51:24
  Mary: So there's nuggets of truth in a lot of things, like there are red food dyes that cause inflammation in certain people.
• 51:30
  Mary: But I think the bigger lesson in that is there are going to be things that are healthy that your body doesn't like too.
• 51:38
  Mary: So I think it's taking time to do a food journal, like if you get a lot of migraines or you have a lot of stomach upset, take two weeks and write down everything you eat and how you feel, and that's going to start to show you like I resist giving up dairy because I love dairy, but I did go to grass-fed milk because and I'm fortunate sometimes it's hard to afford some of the better foods.
• 52:04
  Mary: So I want to be, you know, I want to actually acknowledge that it's not always easy to go and say I'm going to spend $11 on a loaf of bread because it's made from, it has no sugar, but it still tastes like bread that we love, because it's made from, it has no sugar, but it still tastes like bread that we love.
• 52:20
  Mary: So that's actually an issue obviously for another day.
• 52:22
  Mary: But I think we want it to be easy, we want it to be black and white.
• 52:30
  Mary: Ban all this or don't do this.
• 52:31
  Mary: But I think, really paying attention to what happens in your body I mean I remember the first time somebody said to me I can't eat greens I'm like who can't eat greens?
• 52:39
  Mary: But that doesn't mean there's something wrong with you.
• 52:42
  Mary: It just means that whatever your gut flora is or whatever you know, whatever's happening for you, there are just certain things that don't agree with certain people.
• 52:54
  Heather: That's very true and and I think that's a great point is you want to know exactly what's bothering you.
• 53:01
  Heather: Keep a food journal, and I know people don't like to take the time to write down their food, but it can give you a lot of evidence as to what's going on.
• 53:10
  Heather: Yeah, just like banning all food dyes.
• 53:22
  Heather: I mean, honestly, I don't eat food with food dyes in it anyway.
• 53:23
  Heather: So I, you know, I'm not.
• 53:24
  Heather: It's not really a point of concern for me, and I think what I teach my, my clients is to eat real food.
• 53:32
  Heather: Eat real food, not food, not red colored Gatorade.
• 53:38
  Heather: Eat real food, not food, not red colored Gatorade.
• 53:40
  Heather: I mean, I'm not even going there anyway.
• 53:43
  Heather: So I think sometimes the media blows a lot of these things up and I think you know what you said is that it's easy to say like, oh, I'm only going to eat the organic grass fed, but but you know we live in a country of a lot of diversity and not everyone can afford to eat that way, so we have to be reasonable about that too.
• 54:09
  Heather: Yeah, you know, you can.
• 54:10
  Heather: You know, eat what you can.
• 54:12
  Heather: Um, especially if, like you know, even like things like organic I mean organics does not necessarily mean healthier, it doesn't.
• 54:20
  Heather: It doesn't necessarily mean healthier.
• 54:22
  Heather: So so, yeah, we want to.
• 54:25
  Heather: I think, just, you know there's a lot of hype around in social media and on the news and and just stick to the basics.
• 54:33
  Heather: Really, I know it's not glamorous, it's not glamorous, right, it's not like.
• 54:37
  Heather: And really I know it's not glamorous, it's not glamorous, right, it's not like, doesn't have like bells and whistles, but that's okay and you know.
• 54:42
  Heather: And then get your food, that that very simple, real food, to taste amazing.
• 54:49
  Mary: Learn how to use spices and herbs and and you know, flavor your food and, and I think you know you're going to be just fine, yeah, Okay.
• 55:03
  Mary: Well, this has been a great conversation, so can you review for us what you do to help women and where they can find you?
• 55:08
  Mary: Absolutely.
• 55:10
  Heather: Yeah, so I work one-on-one with women.
• 55:15
  Heather: I also have do some group coaching and I teach some group cooking classes.
• 55:21
  Heather: So I you know, so all around.
• 55:24
  Heather: Like you know, this food food is healing kind of thing and my website is heathercarycom and wwwheathercarycom and I also have a free wwwheathercarycom and I also have a free community online community called the Well Nourished Woman, and I just started that about a month ago and we're getting up and running.
• 55:47
  Heather: But that's also just to have that community, because I think going through menopause and all of this that we talked about can be very overwhelming and very confusing and very lonely.
• 56:01
  Heather: So I wanted to just start a community.
• 56:04
  Heather: So I'm really excited about that and I can give you the link to that in the show notes.
• 56:09
  Heather: It's free, anyone can join.
• 56:12
  Mary: Awesome.
• 56:12
  Mary: Yeah, I will link to your website and to that resource in the show notes and thank you so much for being here today.
• 56:19
  Mary: I really appreciate it.
• 56:20
  Heather: Thank you so much as well.
• 56:21
  Heather: This has been a great conversation.
• 56:24
  Mary: Yeah, and thank you to everyone for listening.
• 56:26
  Mary: If you have thoughts on today's episode, please text me at the link in the show notes or leave a comment about this episode.
• 56:32
  Mary: And if you have a woman in your life that you think would benefit or enjoy this episode, please forward it to them.
• 56:38
  Mary: And I'm also going to put a link in the show notes to my sleep course for women in midlife.
• 56:44
  Mary: I think it's a wonderful.
• 56:46
  Mary: You can make a change in a month in four modules, and there's group coaching with that, so I'll put a link to that if you want to learn more.
• 56:53
  Mary: And until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant violet that you are.
• 57:05
  Mary: Thank you.