Latest / The Preferred List: A Wedding Vendor Podcast / Episode 8 This Is Your Story: Gabe McMullen Photography

Transcript

Episode 8 This Is Your Story: Gabe McMullen Photography · The Preferred List: A Wedding Vendor Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to The Preferred List, a podcast about the people behind the best wedding days.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm James, a wedding filmmaker.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: I've spent years in the industry working alongside incredible vendors, and this show is all about the real conversations with the ones that make it happen.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: Whether you're a vendor or a couple, you'll get honest insight, good stories, and maybe a little inspiration along the way.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Let's meet today's vendor.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Hey Gabe, how's it going?
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Hey, good, doing great.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: You're here.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: We're here.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Stoked.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Made it.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that you're a part of this episode today.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Gabe is a wonderful photographer in the area, and we're gonna hear lots more about his process and his style.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: But before that, we are here at the barn at Silverstone.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Love this place.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: The barn at Silverstone featured on World's Greatest as the World's Greatest Wedding Venue.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Here, breathtaking historic stonework meets elegant modern design with an inclusive approach that lets couples enjoy a truly low-stress planning experience.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: If you haven't met Miranda, the owner here, fantastic.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: She's also done like 700 weddings, which is like 700 more than I feel like I've done.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: So she knows what's going on.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: If you're looking for a wedding venue, the barn at Silverstone is a great starting place.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: So, Gabe, yeah.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that you're here.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: As I said, you are a photographer, right?
1:26
SPEAKER_00: You do photos.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: You photograph people?
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Primarily.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Primarily people.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: So um tell me more about your business.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: Tell me more about how you got into the industry.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Have you got to this point?
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Photographing weddings.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh I never thought I would be a photographer.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: I never thought I would work for myself.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: I thought I was going to be a manager at a restaurant like 10, 15 years ago, if you would have asked me.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I kind of fell into photography.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: I've been doing it for about nine years now at this point, which in itself is kind of crazy to think about.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Um I was, you know, a college dropout, like a lot of people.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: I dropped out twice, actually.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh I it was so much fun the first time leaving.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: I figured I should do it again.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Guys, I thought I would come back, but I'm gonna leave again.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: I was like, ah, this just isn't for me.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: Um I was going through this weird season of life where I was just trying to do anything creative.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: I was actually trying to do video editing, pod like podcasting with friends on video game content.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: It was very podcasting on game content.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like you'd see streamers more than you'd see.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's pretty cool though.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: We we were doing like game reviews and stuff, and it was like very short-lived.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: I think we had like five episodes, maybe, if that.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: And um, I was trying to do writing.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: I was, I thought I was gonna be an author.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: I still might try to write a book at some point.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: My life has had some pretty gnarly experiences.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: But then one of the things that kind of stuck was photography.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: I bought a camera from a friend, took it with me everywhere.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Once you get past that hurdle of like, oh, it's the dude with the camera.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Why does he always have that with him?
3:03
SPEAKER_01: You kind of lose that fear or embarrassment of like having it.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Which, you know, I don't know if anybody is listening and they're like 25 years old, like I was.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: And like, it's just weird having a camera at that age as a guy.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: And so I just focused on like photographing my friends, gave my job two months' notice, said that I was quitting and going on a road trip cross-country.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: And I was just photographing everything on that trip and you know, seeing some incredible things, like having never really left the East Coast before then, um, seeing um Colorado, Utah, Joshua Tree, California, yeah, Yosemite, like Wyoming, Idaho, like insane places.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: It's just like so different from what we have over here.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: It accurate.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it like what we have is beautiful.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: It's a different kind of beauty than the West Coast.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, we've got rolling hills, but they have mountains.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: And to me, mountains just speak so much more, it's so much more intense, and I love it.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Um but on that trip, somebody actually asked if I would be the second shooter at their wedding.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: And that is what kind of pushed me over to the edge of like, okay, I can pursue this, I can try to make money with this.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: And for all of 2016, I was working part-time selling produce with some of my best friends, and just was able to take off on 24 hours notice to go shoot a wedding or to shoot an event.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: It's great.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: There were a lot of photographers that were like, hey, I need a last-minute second shooter for tomorrow.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: You're like, got it done.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: And it was uh such an amazing experience working with certain friends and and meeting new people that were in the industry and like learning from them, learning how to treat people, how to treat other vendors, even.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um how what was an appropriate way to be treated as a second shooter.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And even just like the learning experiences were so, so helpful to get like a vast knowledge of experience from different people your first year.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the thing.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Like second shooters, like they either stick with one photographer or you know, but I highly recommend like trying to work with as many as possible when you're starting out because you get just different perspective.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: Everybody has a different eye, the way they see things, how they talk to people, all of that.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: It's so huge.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's so much in there.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm like, let's talk about it all again.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, we spent time out in California as well.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, we traveled full-time in a camper.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: That's great, which is super fun.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Um when we were there though, I'd I'd always watched this one climbing video with a buddy of mine growing up.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: And it was Alex Honnold when he did um, I believe it was L Cap.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Was it Free Solo or something else?
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: There was a couple.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: I think there was some before Free Solo.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, but he my that buddy got me into climbing, and I we didn't really do a whole lot.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: He's out doing some crazy climbing stuff.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: I know it's not related to weddings at all.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: I hey, I was rock climbing for years too.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: But um when we got out there, dude, and we saw L Cap, we saw the mountains, like we were climbing uh what felt like climbing, we were hiking up this trail to the the upper Yosemite Falls.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, dude, this creation, I'm like, oh my gosh, you don't you just don't get the perspective from photos or videos, but when you're there, you're like, how does this even a thing?
6:39
SPEAKER_01: You feel so insignificant and small in the in a lot of ways, but at the same time, it gives you the sense of like exploration and wanting to see new things over and over again.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: When you went, were you intentionally because you had your camera on you?
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Were you intentionally trying to get photos of people, or were you kind of just like shooting, like like photographing whatever was in front of you?
7:02
SPEAKER_01: It was whatever was in front of me.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: At that point, I had high aspirations to be a landscape photographer.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: And I quickly realized I did not have the body to be hiking 12 miles a day with like a big pack of cameras or some uh obscure, obsolete location and just like shooting throughout the night.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Like that, I realized that wasn't me.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's okay.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was just photographing like landscapes.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: I all I had was a 50 millimeter lens, that was it.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: And so I could only really capture so much.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: But the friend that I was traveling with, I photographed a lot of him.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so he had tons of great profile pictures.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's like, which one do I pick from of this 50?
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like um photographing people and photographing, let's say, landscape completely different.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: So different.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, did you feel like you had an eye for the people side of it right away?
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Or were you trying to like get a vision for like what that looked like?
8:00
SPEAKER_01: It definitely, no.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I I don't think from the beginning I had an eye for people.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: I think that was something that developed over time.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I remember in 2016 there was uh a photography studio that was looking for interns.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: And so I'd done a few couple sessions for free to kind of try and get in that internship.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: And what I showed them the portfolio and they had some critiques, they said it was fine.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: They ultimately went a different direction, which was probably the best thing that could have happened to me at that point.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: I would have learned, like I said, from one specific group of photographers, one specific group of photographers that were not my style.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or would they not align with the style that I would eventually become?
8:45
SPEAKER_01: I should say.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: But you didn't know at the time, also like kind of a blessing in disguise.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Hundred percent.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: 100% that is so interesting because it you just put the camera in your hands and you just did it.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: And you got to the point where you were like, like, how does how did the wedding thing fit in?
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Was it like a business decision?
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Was it like you love weddings?
9:06
SPEAKER_00: Was it just there was no business decision.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh it was uh I had this idea of like, how can I make money with this?
9:13
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: I I was um very ingrained in Donald Miller culture, sort of a little bit.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I loved his books, I loved uh story-driven uh his books were memoirs, but they felt like they felt like non-f like they felt like fiction a little bit because they were just really good at telling the story.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: And so I went to a conference of his in Chicago in 2015, and Jeremy Cowert stepped up on stage, who's this incredibly talented portrait photographer in Tennessee.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: He was Taylor Swift's tour photographer, did several of her albums, casual, several of her album covers, like just and his story felt very similar to me.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: He like kind of grew up as like a failure with ADHD, never really felt like he could get anywhere, was doing graphic design, eventually did photography, did the first ever Kardashians promo shoot in Las Vegas or not Las Vegas, in Hollywood.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And it it it was just like it felt very representative, representative of who I was.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: Like dropped out of college, felt like there was nothing going for me.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: I was working in food service for years, just realizing that like that wasn't me.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: And so after he finished speaking, I leaned over to my friend.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm gonna find a way to make money with photography in 90 days.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't happen, I'm done.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And you know, a couple weeks later, I had a portrait session for a friend for 50 bucks.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, That's awesome.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm doing this, I'm learning.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: And so it was a lot of YouTube, a lot of books, a lot of um just trial and error to get there.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: It I I got goosebumps when you you got the$50, and you're like, I'm doing it.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: That's it, that's it.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: That's all I needed.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: Was that everybody remembers their like first paycheck of like 50 to 100 bucks with a camera, and it's like this weird feeling of like, okay, maybe there's something here.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's so cool though.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: But I just love the origin story of like being out west, just putting the camera in your hands and being like, no, there's something here that that I could do.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Not that food service is not an honorable career for sure.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Totally fine.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: But you felt like there was more out there, you just put it in your hands and and started to see the picture, pun intended, of like what was there ahead of you, but you didn't know like you would get to this point.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the path?
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, like take me along the path of like you got fifty dollars for a photo shoot, and now I love your work.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: So good.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you haven't seen it, you should go check it out.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh but you're here now, you're shooting weddings, your your your business is making money, you know.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, like what's that path look like?
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I love it when people say you can't do something.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I went to high school with a girl that had uh went to PCAD for photography, and no shade on her or anything, but like I wasn't thrilled with the work that she was putting out.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: And I remember running into one of my other classmates from high school's dad at a restaurant, and he he asked what I was doing.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm pursuing photography.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Oh, you'll never make money in that.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I was like, All right, all right, I'm gonna show you, I'm gonna prove you wrong.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Have you seen the$50?
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Have you seen this money coming in?
12:34
SPEAKER_01: I can do so much with this.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: And um, it's like that kind of fuel is so important to me.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Somebody told me, like, I don't think you'll ever be able to rock climb.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, I'm gonna do it.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: And eventually I rock climbed.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: And uh it was like some of that was the drive and motivation behind it.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh, some of it was just like the experience on a wedding day.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: I love structure and routine.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: I love that every wedding kind of has the same formula, but they're all so different.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: If I was shooting every single wedding at um, let's say like the farm at Eagles Ridge, amazing venue, stunning.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: I would get pretty tired of it after a year or two of just doing the same thing over again.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: If the if every single couple looked exactly the same, it would be very boring if every couple had the same personalities, love languages, like um, it just it wouldn't be fun to me.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so to be able to like go and travel to different weddings and to go to different venues, new venues that you've never been to before, like that's exciting to me.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, 20 2017 is kind of when I quit my part-time job selling produce and going full-time into weddings.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: I think I shot 10 or 15 of my own weddings that year and second shot maybe 2025.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: It was it was chaos.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Um dude, walk wait before you go on, walk me through that first year because that sounds so it sort of sounds nuts to do 10 or 15 of your own, yeah, and then second shoot.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you went from none the year before.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, I did 10, I think, second shooting the year before in 2016.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: And then I think I I think I only shot 10 of my own in 2017, but 20 to 25 second shooting, which was enough.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean you went from like sort of no experience to to almost 50 under your belt.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Give or take, right?
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, give or give or take.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: What what's the the end of that year compared to the the beginning of that year?
14:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would assume you'd feel like felt pretty good.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I I know what I'm doing, I have an idea, maybe like a style is forming for yourself.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: I I mean, I I truly owe a lot of credit to the to the produce stand that I was selling for.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: And my best friend, his dad, owned it.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: So they were very aware of like me pursuing my passions.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Um I owe a lot of my you know growth to uh Reddit, ironically.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Like the first wedding I ever second shot was from Reddit.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: And it was a guy in Harrisburg that needed a second shooter last minute, and we worked really well together.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: And he brought me back two weeks later.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is great.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: And so keep bringing me back.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I think like something that a lot of people maybe they do or don't do is you know, get feedback.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Like as soon as those two weddings were done, a couple weeks later, I was like, Hey, can we go over these images together?
15:34
SPEAKER_01: How can I get better?
15:35
SPEAKER_01: What can I do differently?
15:37
SPEAKER_01: And he was showing me like how to edit a little bit differently, how to, you know, fine-tune the colors in the reception and like, hey, these shots were really great.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: You did, you did good with this, X, Y, and Z, like maybe do this differently next time.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: And I think that kind of feedback is so important.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was shooting with my friend Sam in Tarante, who was a really good friend of mine before I picked up a camera.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: And he would do the same thing, give me immediate feedback, like, hey, how can you shift this?
16:05
SPEAKER_01: How can you move that?
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the other thing that really shifted and changed a lot for me was in 2017 I joined a co-working space with other photographers and videographers.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know, Sam Tarante was there, Mark Buckwalter, um, Kent Mast, uh, Jeff Franzen.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we were and so I had this immediate access to people that were smarter than me and had been in the industry longer than me.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: And I could ask questions of like, how do I respond to this email?
16:35
SPEAKER_01: How do I shoot this differently?
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Why does this image feel off?
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, what can I change to make it better?
16:42
SPEAKER_01: All of those things.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: That is uh, I mean, I don't know if you knew it when you were in it, but I'd have to imagine that that set you on a trajectory that you had no idea.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: Because it's so subjective, yeah, like the creative side of things, right?
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Like I could look at a photo and be like, yeah, cool, it's a nice photo.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh another videographer could look at the same photo and be like, that's amazing.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: That's one of the best I've ever seen.
17:10
unknown: Yeah.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, but your willingness to go in at it and and be open-minded and just allow other photographers in the industry who have been in been the game longer, yeah, maybe have a completely different style from what you're going for, but to take in and be like, oh, okay, I'm seeing what he's saying, or she's saying, I I see how this could be different.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: I see how I could edit it differently.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're new, do that.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Do that.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, I don't know what else.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, and like I said, it was I was getting influence from different spheres.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just the same person pouring into me.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: It was perspective from people that were older than me.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, Mark is maybe 12 years older than me and has been shooting for eight to ten years, something like that at that point, but like was out of the wedding industry at that point.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: He was doing strict commercial photography.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: And so he had some influence that I was able to take information from, but he might not have the same perspective on like couples' portraits as somebody else.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: So getting their influence in that area was helpful in a different way.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Really, I mean, it's painting a picture for me that like the gay we know now, the photos that you have, the style that you have, it's really like a culmination of a willingness just to be open and accept all sorts of different input and stuff from your early years.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's great.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think um, what do they say?
18:39
SPEAKER_01: If you want to go slow, go alone.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: If you want to go far, go together, something like that.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that adage is.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's something to that effect.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: But it's like, I think that's like one of the things that's super important is like having the right community around you of people that are not trying to take work from you.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm a firm believer that like the Lord has work for me that is designed specifically for me and not anybody else, and vice versa.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I because of that perspective, I can't get upset when one of my friends books the same like a wedding of an inquiry that I also got.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like oh, kind of a bummer, but yeah, it can it can be a bummer, it can definitely be a bummer, but there's there are so many weddings that are happening, and there's so many amazing couples that um would love to have you as a vendor too.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I totally get that.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: So year one was kind of like the maybe year one-ish was like the 10 that you did with other people second shooting.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: The first like year you did your own stuff was like 10-ish of your own 20, 25 with other people.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: What's the rest of that path look like until we get to to now?
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 2018.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: I think I shot 20-ish on my own.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of like up and up ever since then, like 2019, 22, 23 weddings.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: 2020, even during COVID, I was still shooting weddings, um, much smaller weddings.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: Um ironically, 2020 was the most profitable year I'd ever had.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: And then 21 was the busiest year I ever had, and one of the least profitable.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: It made no sense.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, everybody had like prepaid in 2020 for 21.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: And so it was kind of weird.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: But um, and then yeah, 2022 and 23 were kind of down years for me.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: I think I only shot like 15 or 16 on those.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh in 24, kind of pulled back up at like 25.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and here and there I'll second shoot for like close friends.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't really advertise second shooting that often.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, no particular reason.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: I I kind of just enjoy my weekends off.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, when you don't have a wedding, yeah, it's great.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: It's nice to just like chill.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think um, you know, one thing I I kind of love talking about is um, you know, I say I had like a downturn in those those two years where I shot less than I wanted.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when you are living alone, it's like, man, that's bread on my table that I'm losing.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm not having, I'm not able to provide for myself.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: I think like one of the best things you can do, especially for somebody like me that's single, is I my cost of living is very low.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: I bought a house in 2020 and rented out rooms.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: So I my living expense was 250 bucks a month.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you got that like two and a half percent.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, 275.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: It was great.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And then it was everyone in the everyone listening right now or watching is gonna be like, bro, stop.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I brought a thousand dollars to the closing table.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Insane.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: It was it was gnarly.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: And um, and then in 2022, I bought another house.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: It was a duplex, and again, that live my living expense uh is you know a hundred dollars a month for that for where I'm at currently.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: It's not glamorous, it's not sexy, it's a 500 square foot apartment.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but because of that, I don't have to pay eleven hundred dollars, fifteen hundred dollars for a two-bedroom apartment or something like that.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: It's you know, I've I've done a really good job of like kind of harness like honing in on finances to accommodate four slower years, yeah, which I really I recommend.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: No, I mean it's great advice.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: I it's always an in and out.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: And as a business owner, you need to know all the numbers.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: And especially in our field where things ebb and flow.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: It's not consistent.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Quite a bit.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: It's the one thing that I hate the most, to be honest.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: And and that's like another thing I I recommend to newer photographers is don't follow what I did.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, don't quit your job after a year and a half.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: It's not like 90 days, you just like pieced out.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: Like you don't understand the booking seasons until three to four years in the industry.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: So if you can keep your part-time or full-time job as long as you can, do it.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: And even then they change.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Even then they change.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, everyone's not booking now.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I thought this was a you know, it's just like everything is always changing.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, is there uh like a moment that you were like, yeah, this is like not I made it, but like this is really where I'm supposed to be, what I'm supposed to be doing.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was at a wedding, like I don't know if you're sitting at a ceremony taking photos, and you're like, dude, this is crazy that this is what I get to do.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: I think it was probably it's probably like, and I I wish I could pinpoint like a specific wedding, but it was it it probably had to do with a bridesmaid of a wedding that I was at, like when they book me for their wedding.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Like that is such a surreal feeling, or like a sibling of a of a bride or a groom books me for their wedding, of like, oh, you didn't screw up and they want you back because they enjoyed you.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Like that's such a surreal feeling.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: It it's like, and I have you know, an inquiry going on right now of like the fourth kid in that family just reached out, and it's like it feels like family every time I'm with them.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: It's such a surreal feeling.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is crazy too, because like we as wedding vendors get implanted into the family and friend group for a momentary for eight hours, yeah.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Portion of time, and then we leave, and everything else was continuing up into that point and is continuing after.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: So that's so cool to be able to like you have these moments in your business where you're like, Hey guys, how's it going?
24:40
SPEAKER_00: What's new?
24:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's it's great, and um yeah, it's it's hard to explain.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: I I I I talk a lot about when I'm on calls with couples of like this is a really heavy job in the sense of like the taking photos of like your family, like you're being invited into this world that you're you've never been a part of before.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you might be with the bride during some like intimate moments that like even her husband or soon-to-be husband or bridesmaids aren't even in on the room for.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Like the bride is reading a letter from her fiance and it's just you.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's like yeah, it's wild.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's like there's and I think that's why a lot of people struggle with the pressure of it, is because it's like so intense.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Like you can't redo this when something if something goes wrong.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: And you need to have someone that you trust enough that you're not worried about are they capturing what I think they're capturing as a as a photographer.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Um when you think about your approach, um maybe this is like couples reaching out, what happens after they reach out, maybe it's planning before the wedding day, maybe it's during the wedding day.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Is there a part of your approach that you feel like stands out or that's different, or that you've like maybe even just crafted over the years?
26:04
SPEAKER_00: It's like I do this because I know it benefits my couples and you know, I want to keep keep refining the craft.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the the main thing that I've I've been really dialing in on myself is like what is the experience that I'm giving to couples?
26:23
SPEAKER_01: And you know, people are gonna remember the photos, but they're also gonna remember how they felt when those those photos were being taken.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: And so whether that's me cracking jokes or maybe not like when I'm not saying something, and um or if I can tell somebody is not super excited about getting their picture taken right now, it's like, all right, let's take a breather, let's like take 15 minutes, like let's go back inside, cool down, grab another drink.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: Um groomsmen, like, you know, they're the boys of the the groom, and it's like they're often drinking ahead of time, which is fine.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: And so when we get ready for groomsman photos, there's always the one guy that's like, all right, everybody, put your beers down.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, everybody kind of groans.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: I'll be like, oh guys, just bring them, just bring them.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: We'll take a few photos with the beers.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: And then and then after that, I'll just be like, All right, guys, everybody chug your beer and like grab some photos during that moment, which is kind of funny.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And then we take the more traditional photos at that point, but it like builds this really great rapport with the groomsmen where they kind of like they're like, All right, I see what you're doing there.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's cool.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, I respect that.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things is like, I'm not here to tell my story, it's your story.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: I want to meet you where you're at.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I I probably talk more than a lot of photographers on wedding days to bride and grooms because they're not often being photographed professionally that often.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: So it's this deer in the headlights moment.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: So if I can talk more to them and ask them questions and different things, then they kind of get comfortable with each other in that moment.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: If they're talking to each other, they're gonna kind of forget I'm there a little bit, not completely, but enough.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think that can be really special too, to just kind of let them focus on each other.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm very, you know, I probably share too much of my story and everything that's going on in my life with couples on like those initial calls.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, I talk about everything that has happened to me in life has shaped how I photograph weddings.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get a little heavy here for a second.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go for it.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Um my mother passed away earlier this year from Alzheimer's.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: And it was an eight-year journey.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: We knew it was coming.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: She kind of forgot who I was maybe two years ago.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: So around that time is when it really hit me photographing the first parent dance after she forgot my name.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: I was just in tears.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: And after that moment, I really focused on the parents a lot more and grandparents a lot more.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: And you never know when you're gonna get that text or email of like, hey, so-and-so just passed away.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: Do you have any more photos of my grandfather?
29:08
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it's a heavy job because like we need to be on it and make sure we capture those photos of those relatives that are a little bit older.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Um and so yeah, I think like all of that, like working in restaurants has shaped how I photograph weddings.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: My family has shaped how I photograph weddings.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so important to kind of like relay that information so people know that they're those kind of things are going to be covered and captured as well.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like from a vendor perspective, um obviously there's oversharing that yeah, like you you could say too much.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: But um it seems like if the couple uh understands and knows your heart behind why you do the things the way you do them.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Or even your your just general why, um, they're gonna have a better picture of what's in it for you, right?
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Because you are capturing their day.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you are doing the work to to you know help them relive those memories.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: But if they understand your why, they'll have a better understanding of like what you're showing up for, as opposed to just like, oh, here's our photographer, he's just gonna take some photos.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: So to me, when you just said that, I was like, shoot, he is gonna make sure that these people that mean the most to the couple are in some way captured, whether it's doing something just around on the wedding day, but you're not just gonna like pass by grandpa and be like, I don't really need a photo of him because he's just hanging out.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: And it's like a lot of people in the industry, it's like the wedding is about the bride and groom.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: It's also about the people that raised them and the people that have been supporting them through their hardships and their joys in life.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, so how can we honor them on the wedding day as well?
31:10
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that's just having a conversation with father of the bride or father of the groom for a few minutes.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, as a videographer recently, I'm like, man, I want more story.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: And we've worked with a couple photographers, one in particular.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: She always asks like video related things to like mom or dad or or whatever it might be.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, man, this is awesome.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: So she did it first.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: We were she literally just took a picture of the groom and his family.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: And then they kind of just like huddled up to like just kind of another, you know, cozy kind of shot.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: And then she said, Dad, is there anything you want to say to your son?
31:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's his wedding day.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything you'd like to say to him?
31:59
SPEAKER_00: And then he not a big long monologue, but he just said something to the effect of, I'm so proud of you.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I can't believe that you're here in this moment and we get to share this all together.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: It's like, dude, that's the stuff that you want.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: And I it sounds like you're capturing the photo version of that.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: And it it I feel like it takes you into a different kind of category.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: It's not just like here's a photo, it's like here's a moment, here's a memory, here's a person that means that has meaning to it as opposed to just like here's a snapshot.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Um it it seems like your business has evolved in that category of like the meaning.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Has your business evolved in any other ways over the years?
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Good question.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh in in some ways, yes.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: I think I mentioned earlier, whenever people I'm on Reddit a lot, a lot of people are like, oh, bookings are down, how can we adjust?
32:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, diversify your income, diversify how you're making money.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: And I I'm I don't know if you do this or not, but if a lot of videographers I know do weddings, but also do commercial work as well.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: So for me, that has been branching into commercial photography as well.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: We know how to use lights, we know how to style things because of lay flats.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of a no-brainer to like dip into that sphere just a little bit.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: So that's the only way I would say my career is evolving a little bit.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm leaning less towards destination weddings.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: I think when you start shooting weddings, you're like, I want to go, yeah, I want to go to Utah and shoot over the Grand Canyon in uh Arizona, wherever that is.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh, where's the Grand Canyon?
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Arizona?
33:39
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't know.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: Um I should know this.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: I should too, but it's obviously fine.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh there's that draw, at least there was for me early on of like, how can I be a destination photographer?
33:52
SPEAKER_01: And it's like kind of awesome to go out there and travel.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: And and I've been so fortunate to shoot five or six weddings on the West Coast, a northeast a couple, um, did one in Mexico and did one in Ireland.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, I've gotten to travel, which is awesome.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, if you're speaking strictly financial, like there's no shame in wanting to make money in this career.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: If you want to make money in this career, do not do destination weddings.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: You're losing income by doing that.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: You you or do them at like an insane cost.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: Which at that point, are they gonna book you?
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe, maybe not.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, but like you could shoot two weddings for 5,000 on a Friday, Saturday, or Saturday, Sunday.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: But if you're doing a destination wedding, you might only be making six or seven thousand, but then you're also traveling, spending more money than you think.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, logistics, like um, you're dealing with jet lag and you've got to spend a couple days like getting there, et cetera, all those things.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: So it's like doesn't always make sense if the right, if it's the right couple and it's the right destination, then absolutely I'll 100% be there.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: But I'm I've kind of lost that itch to go out and shoot destination weddings.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: So your business has changed a little bit over the years, but some of it's still kind of stayed the same.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, is there is there something that you'd want couples to know based on your experience to know about photography or photographers?
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Like what should they be looking for?
35:23
SPEAKER_00: What should they know when they're reaching out to different photographers?
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: I think that you're probably gonna hear this a lot.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: The most basic answer to this is make sure you look at some full galleries.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: I think it is so important to look at, you know, a start to finish wedding.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: I know it takes time.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: Looking at somebody else's wedding, it feels kind of weird, I'm sure.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: But I try to send two to three galleries to every couple.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: And it's not so much like look at the venue, look at the couple, the the portraits, but like look at the consistency of the style of images you're getting.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: What does the editing look like consistently?
36:00
SPEAKER_01: I remember joining an education program from a pretty well-known, um, not celebrity photographer, but pretty influential photographer.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: And his editing, like he had those like marquee shots that were highly edited, like beautiful, stunning.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: But then the next image in the gallery was very bland and boring.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, you put all that effort into this marquee image, that's awesome.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: But the rest of the gallery is not that consistent.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: And it's like ultimately, like, I want my couples to know what they're receiving when they're booking in a sense.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that's really important.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: If you know, if if certain images on their website look way too clean and crisp, and like ask for the full gallery of that.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: And like, is it a styled shoot or is it an actual wedding?
36:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's like hot take.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: True.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: It's I it's good people are gonna say it's a hot take.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: I am not a fan of styled shoots.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: I think they set the false, like they set a wrong impression of what you're capable of.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: That and then the expectation of what their wedding is gonna look like and feel like versus uh, you know, maybe it's a real couple, maybe it's not a real couple, but if they're there, they're most likely good in front of the camera.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: And good just means they know where to put their hands in the best spot.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they feel very natural, so they look really natural, and you might not feel that comfortable in front of the camera.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: And so some of that is kind of like over the course of the day, you kind of, you know.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: I have friends that are borderline professional couples models, and it's like if I see them on a website, I'm like, oh, I know that person didn't photograph their wedding because I know the person that actually photographed their wedding.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: So your full gallery thing, I mean, that's great advice.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: If you're not sure what you're gonna get from someone, and if they don't give you a full gallery, I would run the other direction.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: That's a red flag to me.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: I need to see full galleries.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: Unless, I mean, if I'm getting married tomorrow and it's a photographer I've worked with, it's like that's a different story.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: But not a lot of people are in the industry and like know the photographer super well.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: Granted, you know, I have like I said, I have this couple that reached out and it's the fourth one in the family.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: Like they don't really need to see a gallery unless they really want to, but like they've already seen their brothers and sisters' wedding galleries.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: So they're they're good.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you're getting the full picture, not just the snapshot highlights.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: You're getting like, oh, maybe the dress wasn't it wasn't a great hanging shot of the dress or a great lay flat.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the portraits were amazing.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: And then you go to the next gallery and it's like, oh, they had way more details for their layflats.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: So that's why these look incredible.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: So you c you kind of you can kind of piece things together of like expectations for what you are receiving.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Expectations, I mean, it's the hard hardest part on a wedding is managing expectations.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: They if they don't understand fully what they're in for, you're probably gonna disappoint.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: I I would assume.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe there's couples that just are don't care at all in terms of that, but I would assume that most like they're expecting a certain type of product, edit, style, whatever it might be.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Especially with the prices we're charging.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Any photographer that is is charging over$5,000, like you want a premium product and you deserve that at that price point.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: No, that's such great advice.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: And hopefully, if you're listening and you're a couple, ask for the full gallery.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: That'll be my recommendation from now on.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, is there like what when you're planning in that planning stages, are you like super hands-on?
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Super hands-off?
39:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, I I know you just did a timeline meeting before this.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's that planning process work like with couples?
39:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty hands-off.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Um I you know, we have that initial call, they book, maybe we shoot the engagement session, maybe we don't.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have like a PDF of like next steps, like things to consider for the engagement session.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: Here's like a sample timeline.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Are you doing a first look?
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Benefits to a first look, negatives to a first look, all that stuff, which there really aren't that many negatives to a first look.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of great.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Um the only downside is if you want to see that first moment down the aisle.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: That's the only it's the only thing.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: Everything else is great.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, I love like there's the intimacy of the first look where it's like, there's nobody else, there's no pressure.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a moment for just you two, which is really sweet.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, so after that gallery or sorry, after that PDF that I send, it's kind of, you know, hands off.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: I send a questionnaire one to two months before the wedding asking for all those details.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, do you already have a timeline?
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, do you have um like number of bridal party, number of guests, what's the attire like?
40:55
SPEAKER_01: Um any unique family dynamics that I should be aware of.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Like having that information, you're able to help, you know, understand the flow of the day.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: And not put your foot in your mouth.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Which I've done.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: And then immediately put that question in the questionnaire.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: I literally just did that a couple weeks ago.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing more uncomfortable than telling a divorced parent uh to stand next to their ex.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: So uncomfortable.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: It's not great.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, ask the questions beforehand for sure.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: So and then yeah, we have that final call to kind of go over the timeline, see when they want me to arrive, um, talk about what is the most important things for them to have photographed.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, I ask questions like, hey, how comfortable are you getting your dress dirty before the ceremony?
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Like if it's maybe it rained in the morning or maybe we're in New York City, like and we're doing a first look.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: It's probably gonna get a little dirty walking through the streets.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: Is that okay?
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Is that okay?
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna be the end of the world?
41:52
SPEAKER_00: Because you don't want to ask that on the day of because they don't they don't need to be worried about that.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: They don't need to think about that.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: Is there like a like what's the what's the typical day?
42:02
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not like I know we get ready and you know, we do, but like what's what's your day look like in terms of photographing the different moments and like what's your mindset kind of going in as you're like you know, kind of prepping yourself for for the day.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: What's all of that look like for are you are you asking like before I arrived to the wedding or yeah, some of before, and then like once you're there.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: It's uh I mean pretty pretty boring.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: Depends on uh where the wedding is.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: If it's you know a two-hour drive to the wedding, um, I usually kind of wake up, drink an element.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm a big fan of like hydration and like salt water, like liquid IV.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, having those before the wedding, one the day before the wedding, one to two on the wedding day, complete game changer.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: I feel I would uh yeah, I don't drink a lot of water.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you should do that in general.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: Not to get uh personal on my my health.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: I saw what you were drinking earlier.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: I do I do have a monster down there on the ground.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: I also have a water and I also have electrolytes over there.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: They're both uh very full besides the monster.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: So it's okay.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: I walked in with a monster too, so it's fine.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: Um the monster pros.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's exactly uh no.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: I I mean if it's a local wedding, I'll probably go to the gym before beforehand, um, kind of get dressed, uh head over to the venue or the getting ready location and you know, 15 to 30 minutes early to kind of scour around, kind of get my head right of where I want to plan things.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Um but on the wedding day, I I try to be as hands-off as possible.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: Nothing irks me more than like trying to do a staged photo of the bride and the bridesmaids like holding up the dress.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: Like that's just everybody look at the camera.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: That feels so cringy to me, and I just don't love it.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: Do you do you feel like because I there's such a vast difference between like this editorial, documentary?
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's another word up there for us.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: I think those are the two main ones.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: Cinema cinematograph cinematographic.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh cinematic maybe cinematic, yes.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: Like what what's your take on, and maybe you could talk about your style if you have a style that you prefer, but what's your take on like what a couple is getting in the end product between these kind of different shooting styles?
44:18
SPEAKER_01: For for me, it's more documentarian.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: I love just like letting things unfold.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, I absolutely love the editorial look.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: I've never been able to kind of hone in on that, even when I've had weddings where it's like, this would be a really good editorial wedding.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: And it it just doesn't, it I don't know why I can't kind of pinpoint it.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: I might start incorporating it a little bit and trying to lean into that um over this year and next.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: I have a few weddings coming up that like this might be a really good opportunity to to get my standard stuff and then kind of lean into the unique editorial.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I have a handful of friends that do that, and it is like I'm blown away by their work, they're incredible.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, for me, it's like I love trying to capture those small moments.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: Somebody recently told me I did a brand audit with a another photographer I really respect.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, your emotional moments, like you capture emotion really well.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, thank you.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: It's like good, good.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm going for, yeah.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I think like historically, men do not do a really good job of capturing emotion.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: I think we see architecture and structure and um composition really, really well.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: And women do a phenomenal job of capturing emotion.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so I'm trying to like see how I can capture emotion a little bit differently and a little bit more intentionally.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I yeah, I agree.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: I I love the editorial look in terms of the visual.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: So for video, there's a very, very big difference between an editorial look and a more like documentary look.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Um but I see more editorial stuff, like you're saying, at weddings that have more details, more florals.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, not that it's a bad thing, but they're they're higher budget weddings.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just to me it's not a bad thing.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't dislike the editorial stuff, but what I want for my couples is more of the memories captured, and I don't know that you like get any benefit for video on like a big staged yeah thing as opposed to like a natural moment that plays out because we Mike our bride and groom all day long.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: So if that something's said and we're there capturing it, boom, yeah, it's like it's there.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: Um it's interesting.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: I've never seen full galleries of edit editorial photographers, so I don't know what other moments they're capturing.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: I kind of maybe that's the sneak peek preview best of kind of moments.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I know it's interesting because uh I I would assume you'd think the same, but if you're a couple that's looking for a photographer and you're seeing the style, they're gonna expect to get that style from you in their full gallery.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: And you would want them to, like we said, with expectations.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: So you're putting out um stuff that's maybe trying to to capture and show emotion.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're putting out stuff that's more like hands-off documentarian.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would assume you get couples that are fitting that vibe, yeah, kind of naturally, right?
47:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for the most part, yes.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think you know, it kind of comes back to the experience, like what's the experience you're giving?
47:41
SPEAKER_01: And it's like if you can create this documentarian approach while having a good experience for the couple, I think that's the most important thing.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: If you're doing editorial, can you create a really good experience for them?
47:53
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the most important thing.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: I remember second shooting for somebody years ago, and they were a very different style of photography than I was.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: They a lot of flash um during portraiture and such.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: And I hate the flash.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not sure.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: It's a video thing.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: I just I get it.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: Yo, I totally get that for you.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: Um for me, it's it's just not me.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't feel authentic, it doesn't, it doesn't feel super real.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: There are couples that love it, and that's I love that for them.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: But I remember, and this is like one of those things I learned back years ago of like how not to do things on a wedding day, is like they didn't even test the lighting setup until the couple was there.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: They like pulled them from the reception and you know, spent 15 minutes setting up the lighting, dialing it in.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, all right, they may love that photo later on.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: That might be the one photo that they frame over their bed or in their living room.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: But to me, that's not a great experience because you're pulling them from your friends and family.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: Instead, set up the shot.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure they do that now, or other photographers do do that, but it was like such it was such a moment for me of like light bulb going off like how I don't know how to approach it.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: It almost seems like maybe that's not the one moment, but that is one of the moments where you're like, I really need to be honed in and and have a client experience that is elevated to the level that your photos are because you could have the most amazing photos, but like you said, if it takes 25 minutes to set up the one shot, yeah, uh most couples probably aren't gonna be down for that.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Or they're they get into the situation without knowing ahead of time what's gonna happen.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: It'd almost feel like ideal if every vendor could have like a full behind the scenes that could be consumed in not watching a two-hour YouTube show.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but that yeah, that probably wouldn't be probably wouldn't be the most uh easy thing to do.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, are there trends that you're loving that are maybe new 2025, maybe that have like resurfaced from years past that you're loving right now?
50:05
SPEAKER_01: Um this is a I don't actually know if it's a new trend because it happened at two weddings.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: They were both sort of connected, like the bride from the first wedding and the bride from the second wedding.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: They were at each other's weddings.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: The the second bride was in the bridal party of the first.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: They wanted super candid bridal party photos, nothing staged.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: And to do that, we had everybody with drinks sitting on this like beautiful leather couch bench thing, and they were just like talking with each other and like clinking glasses.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: And it for me, it was a lot of like direct flash.
50:40
SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: Like it was so great, and it just felt very real and authentic and fun.
50:46
SPEAKER_01: And the second wedding, same thing.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: She's like, I don't want anything staged with a full bridal party.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: We can do, you know, me and the girls a little bit staged.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me and the guy, the guys a little bit staged.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: Not the big line of bridal party.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: And it would have been a sick big line photo.
51:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it would have been awesome.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because of the backdrop was sweet and like everybody was gorgeous.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: It would have been so cool.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: But instead, during dinner, I pulled everybody out because it had rained that morning and so like everything was kind of thrown off.
51:16
SPEAKER_01: But I pulled them out during dinner uh at dusk, and I was like, all right, everybody just stand in this courtyard and kind of like just talk with each other.
51:23
SPEAKER_01: And I got some like amazing photos of them.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: There is not a single photo in that section of like everybody all at once where the I can see their faces, and they were okay with that.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I and I would love to see that trend happen a little bit more because it was actually really fun to just kind of like document the friendships between these groups of people.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like more in their element and less like, all right, guys, let's turn in and get closer, guy in the end, take a step back.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nuts to butts.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh yeah, move to back.
51:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:57
SPEAKER_00: There's always one person on the end that's not in line.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: People, we need you in a straight line for focus.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: It's so tough.
52:05
SPEAKER_01: So and for for me, yeah.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: So that was a really amazing trend that I loved, and I would love to see more, and I might try to incorporate it a little bit more um over the over the years.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that you're like that can go?
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Like where this is this is uh this is gonna be the hottest take.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: Is um the Dutch tilt is back.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: I know.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: What do you feel about the out-of-focus stuff?
52:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm fine with out of focus.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: Dutch tilt, I hate.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: It it to me, it's this sense of like uneasiness.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: I think like Alfred Hitchcock was the one that like pioneered it.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: I this brief tangent about that tilt.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: There was a photographer I know who had someone either associate or second.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: I think it might have been associate for her.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: Her gallery that she saw of the work was normal.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: Every photo she got back was tilted.
52:57
unknown: Oh man.
52:58
SPEAKER_00: Like almost every photo.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: It's it's very much a younger generation trend.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: And um there have been images that I've seen that have looked good.
53:07
SPEAKER_00: Would you say there's room for it?
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Like in like a handful of images, you're like, I just don't like it at all.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't serve the couple, and it's one or two in the entire gallery for me.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: That's that's kind of about it.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: It's um but but that's just me.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of I have a lot of friends in the industry that love it and do it, and like their images are good.
53:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just not my favorite.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: No, I can't say when doing photo, I can't say I ever intentionally like left it to the side.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, other than the fact that I can't hold it level.
53:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: And who knows, maybe it's like an intentional crop.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: I think um Yeah, that's true.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: There was there was this uh incredibly talented photographer in the early 2000s, Jerry Gionis, I think his name is, uh, would always do really strange crops.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: And a student asked him, like, why do you do that?
53:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, why do you crop the way he's like, uh, because I can.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: And so to a degree, yes, it is your artistic um ability to crop it however you want.
54:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's just it's just a mean preference.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't love the the tilt.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: I do feel like it if you're doing anything, it could be the tilt, it could be the crop or whatever, if you're doing it in service to the couple to elevate their experience or elevate their end product, go for it.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: And if they know that that's what you're doing, absolutely, go for it.
54:28
SPEAKER_00: Because that's the thing for me is too many of us creatives have this like selfish kind of mindset about it.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, but we're not here for us to build our portfolio.
54:41
SPEAKER_00: We're literally here to serve the couple, so let's just do that.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: They know what your stuff is, they want your stuff because they paid you to be here.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's just yeah, no, it's great.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: That's my take.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: No, it's good.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, hey, I love like direct flash, I'm fine with that coming back.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
54:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, out of focus can be really, really beautiful.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: I've done a handful of them that I really love.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, motion blur can be if it's done well, it's beautiful.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: It's really, really sweet.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: Um talking kind of directly to the couples that are in the midst of planning.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they just started, maybe they've found some people that they like.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: What's the best advice that you could give them in this planning stage to maybe help them move forward, make decisions better, um, or even just like mindsets to have when they're deep into planning?
55:35
SPEAKER_01: Man, it's uh it's a good question.
55:37
SPEAKER_01: I think like my gut reaction is like when you're planning the wedding, like f figure out how much money you are comfortable spending and then allocate to there and and then find the photographers, videographers, catering flowers in those price ranges and just take the time to meet with all of them, whether that's in person, over the phone, or Zoom.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: Like just get to know them.
56:01
SPEAKER_01: I think that's really important.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: And if you have a really strong connection to one over the other, but they're just a little bit out of your price range, like maybe it is worth leaning in for that extra little bit for that florist or that videographer or that photographer.
56:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, because those are gonna be the people that are with you a lot on your wedding day.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: So it's like you want to make sure that they are a good vibe and and good energy levels and can get you out of those funks if you're in one.
56:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or something goes wrong.
56:31
SPEAKER_00: I always like every couple that we meet with, I'm like, you you have to like your videographer and your photographer.
56:39
SPEAKER_00: Some of the other ones, maybe a planner.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: Some of the other ones though, like if you don't like the person that's doing your catering, if the food's good and they scoop it nice, like yeah, they're nice to your your people that are there, but you literally are gonna be with your photographer and your videographer for the entire day.
56:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're there at the start, we're there at the end, and we're there at all the important moments.
57:03
SPEAKER_00: So if you like the work, you like the vibe, it's gonna be a good mix.
57:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:08
SPEAKER_00: But you're not gonna get that, like you said, unless you do some sort of call or meet them in person, um and and get the information about what they do and why they do it and how they do it.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've only ever had one couple book without having a phone call.
57:25
SPEAKER_01: And thank God it turned out to be amazing.
57:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
57:28
SPEAKER_00: But but you don't know.
57:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't know.
57:30
SPEAKER_01: As a vendor, it's like there there have been weddings that I've turned down because it was not the right fit.
57:37
SPEAKER_00: Which I think as a vendor, I think that's okay.
57:39
SPEAKER_01: It is, absolutely, yeah.
57:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like we it's not about it's not even about like protecting our brand, it's about serving the couple properly and being able to honor them on the wedding day.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's like if you're not a good fit, you're not a good fit.
57:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:52
SPEAKER_01: I knew I wasn't the right fit, and that's fine.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: Um is there when you're when you're on the wedding day and stuff like pops up, because it always pops up, something happens, right?
58:05
SPEAKER_00: It starts raining.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like like what are you like what are you running to do?
58:09
SPEAKER_00: How are you like handling some of that um conflict or you know, uh tensions arise or something happens, the rain starts?
58:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, what are you doing to kind of like walk through that with your couples?
58:25
SPEAKER_01: With with like rain specifically, again, it's all about setting expectations and and kind of like having a game plan for when that does occur.
58:33
SPEAKER_01: So that final consultation, like, hey, if it rains, what's the backup plan for the ceremony?
58:39
SPEAKER_01: Um when I'm arriving before I even say hi to the bride or groom, it's looking around the property, it's like, okay, what it's gonna rain on the forecast.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, where can I do full bridal party photos?
58:50
SPEAKER_01: Where can I do family photos?
58:51
SPEAKER_01: Where can I do uh bride and groom portraits?
58:54
SPEAKER_01: Um that is like having that information in your head ahead of time is so important.
59:01
SPEAKER_01: So that way when it comes down to portrait time, you're not like, all right, uh, it's raining.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: Let me go walk around for a few minutes.
59:09
SPEAKER_01: Um it's no, I have a spot.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: Let's go here.
59:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's go do this.
59:13
SPEAKER_01: And if they turn to you and you say that, they're like awesome.
59:18
SPEAKER_01: They're great, they are in, yeah.
59:20
SPEAKER_01: Because like again, it's some of it is like confidence.
59:22
SPEAKER_01: If you walk around with confidence, they're gonna believe that you have the best intention for them.
59:27
SPEAKER_01: And usually I do, which is great.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it always works out for me.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, yeah, it's that that to me is like so important.
59:36
SPEAKER_01: It's like make sure you have like plans in the back of your head of like how do you pivot from one situation to another, like yeah, from one worst case scenario.
59:45
SPEAKER_01: How do you take a really the worst case scenario and make it the best case scenario?
59:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then the couple at the end of the night is like they had us, you know, the whole day.
59:54
SPEAKER_00: They were there for us, yeah, and had the best intention and and got us the best end product because.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_01: of that yeah yeah which is I mean that's the that's the goal ultimately when you're serving serving the couples is there something that um couples can do to get the most value from a photographer that's a really good question I think sometimes it's it's as simple as trusting their vision yeah I'm never gonna put a couple in a position that I feel isn't gonna look bad like I don't want to put couples in a situation where they're uncomfortable so I'm not gonna intentionally do something for a photo that I know is gonna make you feel uncomfortable um so trust that I have your best intention in mind like I trust that I want to create the most magical photo possible yeah um and so just kind of like lean into that um I think yeah that that's probably the main thing is just like trust trust their vision yeah I if if you are finding someone photo specifically that you trust you like their product that they're delivering but that trust I feel like goes even a little bit further than just liking the photos.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah because if you trust them you're willing to to go with what they're recommending and what they're recommending generally is gonna end in a better photo a better moment maybe you know in a few seconds after the prompt like you're they're gonna be oh wow look at that amazing photo exactly if they trust your vision that's a I love when couples are like just do your thing.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and and here's the weird reality is like we have photographed I photographed 250 plus weddings.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_01: It's not my first rodeo so it's like I know kind of what direction to go in certain situations that they might not have thought of.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: Because you're the professional and if they trust you then you're gonna feel the freedom to create the way that you normally create which is going to get them what they see from you.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: Exactly because you do need some freedom yeah but they know what they're getting because you have the the room to do your thing um is there something in your business so kind of like on a vendor side of things is there something in your business that's like helped you grow um I know like creatives like we're so focused on the creative yeah it's so easy to just like focus on the photos focus on the videos but we're also like business owners and entrepreneurs is there something that has helped you like grow your business the most yeah I think organization is one of the most important things.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm generally not an organized person.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_01: Same.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's really hard for me to like kind of get dialed on that stuff.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_01: Having a CRM is incredibly helpful.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_01: I I'm sure almost everybody in the in the industry has Honeybook or D'Asado or Tave or um one of the other ones but like that kind of um that resource is so helpful for making sure that you're not double booking yourself or you you know maybe you don't want to book a triple header.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_01: Like there have been situations where I've accidentally booked triple headers even with a CRM because you know maybe they book uh an August 29th wedding and August 30th wedding and then a September 1st and then I'm just like uh all right what did I do I really kind of ruined that one um that weekend shot um yeah but uh ultimately yeah that that is really helpful I think um yeah I mean for me it was having other people in my life that were willing to take time out of their day to give me advice and give me um insight into how to run a business.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_01: I think having a really good accountant is really helpful.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_01: Um you know even things as simple as like what is a business plan and and how do you want to grow?
1:03:53
SPEAKER_01: How do you want to um what do you how do you see this business in five years?
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: Because it's so easy for photographers specifically to pick up a camera shoot their pretty friends and then build a business off of that exclusively and have no foresight for what's going to happen in three to four years.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: Especially the ups and downs of booking, things changing.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah it it's very easy I feel like for a number of wedding vendors to not really have a detailed enough game plan to then have a business that grows and you know turns a profit.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_00: Because exactly you need it to turn a profit.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_01: And it's like yeah you can track your income a lot better.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_01: You know how much income is coming in for the rest of the year.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm an LLCS corpse so like I pay myself a W2.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't do like I do owner draws every now and then but it's not like I have one bank account for the business in personal it's business bank account personal bank account.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah and you know having uh a CRM is super helpful to know exactly how much income I need to make each month yeah to pay myself and I love you don't have to have honey book but I love the communication between vendor so myself and couples being all kind of in one spot.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: I text couples now so that I kind of made that a little bit more challenging.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_00: But it's like in one spot I have all their information all the email communication the dates for everything conflicting dates.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_01: That's how I send my questionnaires that's how I sell contracts invoices payments all that it's really so definitely if you're a vendor and you're new try to find something that can help you just stay organized.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be Honeybook but we both use it.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah well I actually don't use Honeybook.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh you don't use you both don't use it look at this auto I got locked into their lifetime access plan that works so I'm like there's no reason for me ever to leave yeah no that works I had um Sprout Studio first and I liked it because I was doing a little bit more photo and they have a photo delivery right in the platform but the communication this is a tangent but the communication would go out from Sprout Studio and then it would all be in Gmail and then I'm like trying to remember stuff from Sprout Studio while I'm emailing back in Gmail.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_00: And that was amazing it was just too much.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: And I found Honeybook had I literally all I wanted was communication within the platform and Honeybook had it and I was like cool I'll get Honeybook.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_01: I've I've heard great things about Honeybook.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_01: I hear it's streets ahead of Dubsado so it's like kind of a bummer but Dubsado 2.0 or 3.0 is coming out soon so hopefully that probably I'll put that stuff in there.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah hopefully we'll see you do shit on a potato we'll let that slide best dynamic range in the game it's probably is they bought they bought red and I'm like maybe I should go Nikon I don't think it's actually going to do anything but no I I I mean I shoot my reels that I make on my Nikon.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah and they turn out they turn out do you have a Z63?
1:07:00
SPEAKER_00: No I have a Z uh Z F and a Z eight they're great.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_00: The Z F is sounds and seems like such a cool camera.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_00: It is the perfect wedding photography camera.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:07:12
SPEAKER_00: I for me.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I mean I've I've obviously there's bigger better sure things it's but it's small it's compact the fold out screen is great the focus is amazing dynamic range is insane um but just like the size of it is awesome.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_01: You have to buy a grip for it because otherwise it'll fall out of your hands.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_01: And then like I use the Z8 on my other hand and it works really well which I use the Z8 for commercial so it's like it kind of works.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_01: It works it works really well.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_00: Do you put a specific lens on the ZF?
1:07:40
SPEAKER_01: Um right now I've been experimenting with the 24 to 70 Z series and it's insane.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's incredibly good.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah Nikon bought red and I'm like oh dude I would love to have a red camera they're so cheap now.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_00: I it's it's insane.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah you can buy a original Komodo this is totally off topic you can buy original Komodo for like three grand.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah the only thing that I can't wrap my mind around is uh there's no internal NDs and I'm like if I'm buying a cinema camera I feel like it should have internal NDs.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_00: Not the end of the world yeah but a thing.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah and then I'm like these all have IBIS it's global shutter so it's gonna help a little bit yeah but it's not IBIS yeah I would love to just rock an easy rig for a wedding day it would be it'd be awesome.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_00: It'd be awesome it would look like a transformer yeah but it would be awesome yeah I'm just that's okay yeah you're making me want to buy it even more I don't why hey I don't know I bought this because Gabe told me it would enhance my wedding films.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I don't know I don't know if it would it is it is nice I think the Z8 has 8k even um and Z9 too but like the Z ZF is like 24 or 25 megapixels it's such a cool camera.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_00: It's it gives me the vibes of the Fujifilm X106 type of thing so many people come up is that a film camera like no no it's digital it has film Sims in it though right probably I don't know I don't mess around with that it probably I think it does.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_01: It does have a really nice black and white filter.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh nice um I'm pretty sure it's film sims in it but it might I would love to know there's obviously been so many weddings you've been a part of is there like one favorite memorable moment that stands out from all the weddings that you've done yeah I think uh it's more of a recent wedding I was very fortunate to I know I kind of talked on like destination weddings like kind of like don't go yeah it's like you should never do this but you went but I went uh I was asked to photograph somebody's wedding in Ireland uh earlier this year which was absolutely stunning couple was amazing they were you know so sweet I like have a man crush on the groom he is awesome he looks like Ryan Gosling he's awesome um sweetest dude ever and uh his wife is just a gem amazing person and you know like I said they were they were actually the third wedding in that family that I photographed so I photographed the bride's brother's wedding and her sister's wedding years ago and so it just felt like this incredible like I felt like family while I was there and it was so cool.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_01: It was like this pocket of people from New Jersey and Ireland.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_01: So you're hearing the acts like a little bit of a Jersey accent.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_01: Um but it was I just felt so welcome the entire time um went golfing with the guys the day before the wedding that's awesome uh shot terribly which was fine in Ireland it doesn't even matter and uh and then you know the welcome dinner and rehearsal dinner was awesome wedding was incredible I think I was was shooting for 13 or 14 hours but it didn't it didn't really matter to me I was like kind of high on life yeah um and you know it was one of those days where like it rained in the morning and we had to pivot some things but it turned out amazing.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_01: I love the portraits I got um and then the next day was a pig roast and they brought in their tattoo artist from New Jersey.
1:11:07
SPEAKER_01: And so I have a matching tattoo with like a couple other guys from the wedding which is so surreal.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah I spent like the next day with the family sort of like I would I ran into them at a couple um locations in Ireland and went out for drinks with them again that night and that you you have to be the only photographer that has a matching tattoo from a wedding.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I can't I can't imagine that there's a lot of you out there yeah it's wild it was it was so sweet and it's like it's so funny because like the last four tattoos that the guy did all four of them were little Irish trout on each of our kneecaps.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_01: It was just great.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_01: It was super sweet.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh well Gabe this has been insanely insightful and your story is just thank you it's one for the record books if you will yeah I appreciate you being on I'm so stoked so honored to be here.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah it where can people find your work follow along with what you're doing.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah uh just super easy Gabe McMullen uh on Instagram with a little under dash uh and gabe mcmullen.com is my website uh yeah those those are the best places to find me um I always it's always funny when people ask my Instagram like ah it's just a bunch of people making out it's not that exciting but also it's all my work so please go like it yeah like and send it to your friends.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah is there something coming up that you're stoked about or something you know upcoming project or something yeah not not a ton of like upcoming projects I I think I'm really excited from for a lot of my fall weddings I think uh mostly because they are friends of other past weddings and so it's like exciting to see people again um other than that I might try to do a little bit of solo traveling up uh the northeast and um yeah other than that should be a pretty pretty laid back fall for me which is good.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I love that well thanks again for being on for having me um that's all for this episode um I appreciate you guys tuning in and hearing more from Gabe and all of his photo adventures um make sure you guys are liking and subscribing to the channel so you can catch the next episode on the preferred list.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_00: That's all for now