Latest / The Golden Chronicles / Episode 16: No- Period.
Transcript
- Danielle: Hi, before we get into this week's episode, I just wanted to share a little bit with you about our sponsor, EAR-GOES High Fidelity Hearing Protection. I've shared a little bit about how I work in live events and how protecting my hearing is something that's really important to me. Well, EAR-GOES was founded by live music professionals and designed for people who need some hearing protection without sacrificing that sound clarity, which is exactly where I fall. I carry mine with me every day and I use them not only for hearing protection, but I also use them to help me stay focused in a noisy venue or on a flight. They do a really great job of reducing the volume without making everything sound muffled. You definitely don't have to work in the live events industry to use them because they are great for attending concerts, they're great for flying, they're great for sleeping when background noise is a problem. Eargoes offers several different styles and levels of noise reduction so you can choose whatever makes the most sense for your life. To check them out, visit EAR-GOES.COM That's E-A-R-G-O-E-S dot com and use promo code Golden for 15% off of your purchase. All right, let's get into this episode. hi, welcome to this week's episode of the Golden Chronicles podcast. If you are joining us for the very first time, welcome. return listener, welcome back. I'm Danielle, I'm the millennial. Victoria: And I'm Victoria. I'm the baby boomer. Danielle: And this episode is going to be about the word no and why it's so hard to say it sometimes and why we often feel like we have to over explain ourselves when we give a no. Anything you want to add about what this episode is about? Victoria: No. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I realized recently that I don't say no often. And even looking over my life, there are times when I may have when I should have said no and I did not know that I could say no, that it was an option for me to say no and never crossed my mind. of course as a parent you say no. But when it comes to the expectation of others, maybe I didn't realize that I could say no. And so I just wanted to explore the word no. And how people use it. Danielle: Yeah, it's something that we're both learning. It's something that we're both trying to understand more about. So that's what today's topic is gonna be about. Let's get into the definition because you know that we love our definitions. Victoria: So the word no an act or instance of refusing or denying not any not so in no respect or degree no. Danielle: No. What are you learning about the word now? What, why is this topic so intriguing to you? Victoria: So a couple of episodes ago when we talked about boundaries, I didn't realize Saying no is a part of a boundary, and I never realized that I really needed boundaries, since I struggled with boundaries I struggled with saying no because the two go together and without one I didn't have the other. no is a powerful word and I just never really thought of saying no in a way to protect myself. And that's Danielle: Hmm. Victoria: what I want to learn about. for myself. Danielle: It's hard for me to say no because a lot of times I want to say yes because I don't want to say no. like, know that I can say no, but what am I going to miss if I say no? Right? Are people going to still invite me Are people going to still offer me jobs And so I feel like I say yes as a way to protect myself. in order to. opportunities but also have to make opportunities for myself to rested and for myself to make good decisions for myself and for my family and so I feel like that's interesting that you say no to protect yourself because really no is to protect yourself but sometimes I feel like I'm saying yes to protect myself. Victoria: You know, I'm thinking about me saying no. And as I'm thinking about it, I find that a a lot of my days, a lot of my thoughts are consumed by fear. And so now that I think about it, the times that I have said no was because of fear. Danielle: Mm. Victoria: I I'd have to think about it, but most of the time is To keep myself in. you know, one of our family members got married in a foreign country and I said no to going because I was afraid. if I'm invited somewhere, or I'm afraid of what might happen. I have anxiety about going to this place or doing this thing I'll just say no. So I guess I do use the word no, I I said that I use it to protect myself, but what I use it for is to remain in fear. Danielle: Hmm. Victoria: The fear of stepping out, the fear of doing different things, the fear of doing something new. Danielle: Interesting. Victoria: so the anxiety and the fear is what causes me to say no and not in a very healthy way, because if I think about it, maybe it's not to protect myself, Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: it's to perpetuate a fear that I have. Danielle: which probably feels like protection in the moment, right? Like it feels like you're protecting yourself by saying no, because you're protecting yourself from anxiety or the what ifs or whatever. Yeah. Victoria: And when I think about me telling others no, their question becomes, you don't want to hang with us? They don't say it that way. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Victoria: But that's what I pick up. And it's not that. Danielle: which then probably leads into that over explaining, right? So then you don't want to just say no and then people say, do you not want to be friends with us? And you're just like, my no is my no. You're like, I want to explain? I would love to go, but I have a problem with my lower back and I would walk over there, I, you know, my balance. And then you feel like you have to over explain and the next thing you know that you're telling them about your medical history and really Victoria: Yeah. Danielle: no should be sufficient, should be, right? Victoria: I think in those instances I should not say no so often. I should Danielle: Yeah, for sure. Victoria: take a moment and think, is this fear? Is this anxiety? I should consider those things before I give a no. Cause Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: I could be missing out on some really great experiences. so those two letters, that little word no, imprisons Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: me. Instead of setting Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: me free to be the person that I want to be, Danielle: Do you feel like when say no and then give a reason that you have to then defend your reason for saying no? Victoria: Yes, but Danielle: Like if I say no, and then they're like, well why? And I say, well, okay, for perfect example, I got asked to go to a comedy show this evening. And I said, no, probably not. And they're like, why? I'm like, well, I have two podcast episodes that I need to record, two episodes that I would like to edit, and I need to get an episode out by Tuesday. And they're like, yeah, but it's only noon. There's lots of time between now and Tuesday, but I'm like, okay, I gave you an explanation out of a courtesy, but now I feel like I have to defend my explanation and that's when I start to feel uncomfortable, which is when I'm like, no, it's a full sentence. But now like you said, when the girls are like, are you not our friend? Then you feel like you have to explain and your, I guess, explanation is received where I feel like. If I give an explanation, then that allows people to pick holes in my reasoning where it's like I just, because I said no, because I said so. Victoria: There was a big event, and like I said, I was afraid. And so I said no to going to this big event. And others that were going to the big event who love me, did not understand my no. And even after I explained my no, the the fear, the anxiety, all of that, This person still felt like it was best for me to go. So, and I felt like it was best for me that I not go. so therein lies a situation where you're saying no and someone's trying to talk you out of your no, just like you were saying. Yeah, so sometimes people believe they're doing what's best for you and they understand your no, they understand the words that you're saying, the anxiety, the fear. but they're trying to talk you out of it's more than them trying to talk you into a yes. It's because it has become emotional now. It's not just yes or no. It's deeper, it's bigger, it's wider. Danielle: Mm. Right. Victoria: And yeah, and so I that's sometimes what people don't understand. Danielle: Which is also, in my perspective, kind of a fine line, right? Because as your daughter, who sees maybe that you're saying no out of fear, and recognizing that pattern, and seeing it happen in real life, then... I would definitely try to talk you out of a no if I felt like your no was coming from a place of fear. I understand that you're anxious. I understand that it's a lot. I understand this, but I also see that you're saying no out of fear. that is also very nuanced, I guess. And obviously different, like no is no when it comes to consent and no is no when it comes to like being peer pressured to do things that you don't wanna do or whatnot. But I wonder what a therapist would say about someone trying to talk you out of a no they know that the no is not in your best interest, I don't know. or that the no is out of fear. Victoria: Yeah. I I couldn't s I that's interesting that you would say not in my best interest. So does that take us to do it afraid? Danielle: Yes. Victoria: No, we're talking about no, not yes. But well that's something that that that makes me very emotional. I mean I could really cry right now. because there are things that I do need to do and that I understand that I need to do them afraid. I really don't like to fly. But I do it afraid because I wanna see Terrence. if it's something if it's flying somewhere other than visiting Terrence. I can say no and that's it 'cause I the fear will I'll give in to the fear. But when it comes to going to see my kids or somebody, you know, I'm gonna do it afraid. Danielle: Right. Well, Mira wants to take you to France, so you're going to have to get over that. She keeps saying, Mimi Victoria: Bless her heart. Danielle: would love to come to the beach and go to France. Victoria: I know, that was she was that was so cute. We should take her to the beach and to France. So I was like, girl, for real. Danielle: So we went on a beach vacation. This is just a sidebar. We went on a beach vacation a couple weeks ago and we were talking about how much Mimi loves the beach and how she would, it's like one of her favorite places. And then the week before we went on vacation, we had taken Mimi to this restaurant called Once Upon a Time in France for her birthday because she loves France and she would love to learn how to speak French and she would love to visit France. And so, We're having that conversation with Mira week before your birthday about France and stuff. then when we were at the beach, I was recording a video. was like, I'm going to record this video for Mimi of the waves because I know how much she likes the waves And Mira was in the background and she didn't realize that I was already recording. And she's like, I feel like this vacation, Mimi would just love it. I just think that we should take Mimi to the beach and we should take Mimi to France. She would just love that. Yeah, she would. She really would. She Victoria: That was so sweet. Danielle: collected so many shells for you. She was like, Mimi would love this one. They're in a box somewhere. yeah. Victoria: I'm so excited. Danielle: So I think that it is important for us to be introspective and to determine whether our no is coming from a healthy place, like a place of boundaries and protecting ourself, and because we lack the time or the energy or the capacity or even the desire. if it's a fearful no where we're saying no because we are scared or because we're scared the of failing or looking stupid being in a new situation or scared of the unknown or whatever. And I think maybe it's difficult because like when do we challenge someone's no without, like obviously we don't wanna cross boundaries. So if someone says no, then we wanna respect their no. But at what point in specifically like, thinking of the parent-child dynamic, pushing someone towards a yes when they're saying no out of fear. For example, Mira doesn't want to learn how to ride a bike because she's scared of falling. But we're going to challenge that now and we're going to teach her how to ride a bike, you know? Because we know that that no is out of fear. And the same thing with parents and their adult children. I think of some people who are just scared of trying new things. I feel like in those instances sometimes the parent does still have to be the one who's challenging the no based on fear, but at what point is it like, okay, but my no is my no, and I said no because I have no desire to do it, not because I'm doing it out of fear. And same for my relationship with you, understanding when your no is your no and that's your boundary and no explanation is needed. even when it's a no based out of fear. right? But I think that there are some times where it is, it would be you a disservice, by not trying to help you challenge your no and why you're saying it. But I don't know where that. where that line is and how to determine when to push and when to just let it go. I guess it's not really my responsibility, but as your child, I feel like if I see it, I wanna push you towards something that might be beneficial for you. Do know what I mean? Victoria: I think moving forward I'll be more conscious of the reason that I'm saying no. Danielle: Right. Victoria: so that I'm not allowing fear to dictate Good things that could be happening in my life. And Danielle: Right. I think. when we want to say no or when we say no to just think about why we're saying no I guess and understanding of where it's coming from making sure it's coming from a healthy place and not out of a place of fear not that we always have to say yes when we're afraid like I Will not say yes to getting on a zipline. I have no interest. I'm not gonna skydive. I'm not like no interest I'm scared. Yes, also not an opportunity. I need to experience you will not catch me in a submarine Looking at the remains of the Titanic. That's not me. That's just not my life. You're not gonna find me on side of Mount Everest. I'm not that person. know, like, no thank you, not interested. Scared, yes. Also healthy, yes. But it's interesting understanding where the nose are coming from. Victoria: so I know that we focused a lot on, me telling myself no and then actually telling someone else no because it's something that I don't want to do. There's no fear involved, it's just I don't want to do it. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: Sometimes people want to depend on me to do something for them that I don't want to do. And Danielle: Mm-hmm. Victoria: instead of saying no, I'll say yes. because I figure, what's it gonna hurt? Am I Danielle: Right. Victoria: being selfish? What's it gonna hurt? So I don't know how much that plays into our being okay with saying no. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: Say no just because we just don't want to. Not it has nothing to do with fear. Danielle: Yeah, well I think that's okay to sometimes to just say no. Victoria: In saying that, are you able to accept my no? Even after you have challenged it and I still say no, are you able to accept my no and just understand well? Danielle: Reluctantly sometimes, I mean I have to accept it, right? Like you're an adult, I can't force you to do something, but sometimes I reluctantly accept it. Sometimes I get in my feels about a no, because sometimes a no especially a no based on fear, sometimes feels like, okay, well your fear is bigger whatever reality is actually happening, or whatever perception I have of reality, you know? are also It's really funny because I really am the queen of no as a full sentence but like when it comes to no and fear like maybe understanding that no isn't a full sentence like explaining to yourself why you're saying no You don't have to explain it to me, I suppose but Yeah, that's funny it's there's duality right is that the correct word my god, let's google it Victoria: I'm not certain that word is. Yeah, let's Danielle: duality. Having two separate parts are opposite sides. It describes things like good and evil, light and dark, and body. So contrasting ideas. We'll just leave it at that. Victoria: Well also in a relationship between a parent and an adult child, one or the other can feel unseen, maybe not respected. I think like in this situation with me not wanting to take medication, my no, you're not accepting my no. okay. Do you think that Danielle: that I accept your no. I can't change your no. I understand that. Victoria: do you think that your reasoning is that you know better, would you say that you know better when confronted with my no? I'm just wondering, are there times when we say no? And it's a manner of I I'm saying no because I know better than you. Danielle: Yeah, I'm sure there are. I say no to Mira all the time because I know better than her. Victoria: Do we have that same dynamic when it's two adults? Danielle: not that my information is better or what I know is better, but my experiences have... expanded my knowledge in ways that maybe your experiences haven't led you to yet. Victoria: So essentially are you saying I know better than you 'cause I've had experience with this situation and you have not? Danielle: No, I'm saying I know different than you. So your experience isn't... end all be all. Here's another perspective. Is it hard for you to hear the word no, to hear someone tell you no? Victoria: Very good question. I don't think I get no a lot. I think I get no more from you than anybody else I know. I have to give that some thought. because you're really the only person that I ask for help with anything. Danielle: Mm-hmm Victoria: Well, I recently applied for a job. they reviewed my resume, but the response was we're choosing someone else. So that was a no to me. Danielle: Yeah. You feel like it's easier to hear no with a reason attached to it. You're like, no, but. No, because as Victoria: Is I would agree. Danielle: opposed to just no, which probably why you are a no-over-explainer because you want a reason behind no, so why wouldn't you give a reason behind your no? Victoria: Have I ever made it hard for you to tell me no? Danielle: Mmm, yes. It's really hard to tell you now, to be honest. Victoria: Do you think that I don't want you to ever tell me no? Danielle: No, it's not that I don't think that you don't want me to tell you no, but it's like, okay, but then what are you gonna do if I say no? Victoria: Can you give me an example? Danielle: I don't want to come hang your curtains. So what are you going to do? Get on the lot of yourself and hang them? No, no, this is just an example. I don't mind hanging your curtains. But if I say no to hanging your curtains, Victoria: Man. Yeah. Yeah. Danielle: before you find somebody to come hang your curtains, you're going to try to do it yourself. So, and you don't need to be up on the ladder. And I know that, I know that if I say no, you're not gonna hire a handyman, you're gonna try to do it yourself. And then if you fall, who's gonna be responsible? You, really, but me because I said no, knowing full well that you were just gonna then try to do yourself. Victoria: Sometimes no can be a good thing to say to oneself. No, I'm not gonna overeat. No, I'm not gonna sleep in, I'm gonna get up and go to the gym. No, I'm not gonna procrastinate on writing that essay. So sometimes no for ourselves can help us to reach our goals and our dreams. So essentially, in some situations, saying no to bad habits or being undisciplined is a yes. to accomplishing goals and realizing dreams. Danielle: Yeah, for sure. I agree with that. And I think that's when a no is a healthy no, right? No, I'm not gonna do that because it doesn't align with what I, where I'm not gonna go out with you guys tonight, because I know when I go out with you guys, I'm always out way too late, and I I really need to protect my sleep this weekend. is there a time that really sticks out that you regret when you've said yes or a time that really sticks that you regret because you've said no? I can think of a couple times when I've regretted saying yes. I'm like, I should have charged more money. Victoria: a little thing. I had coins for mirror. And Danielle: Mm-hmm. Victoria: I told her yes, I would bring her the coins. I regret it saying yes, but I knew that I said yes and so I need to take those coins. But then I forgot and lost track of time and I didn't get the coins back to her on that day Danielle: Mm-hmm. Victoria: that I told her that I would. so that's a little thing. I'd have to think about it, but I'm certain there's a time that I said yes when I really didn't feel like saying yes. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: then I had to back out of it. I can remember telling someone that I would go to a concert with them. I said yes. then I really didn't feel like going. So I had to back out of Danielle: Mm-hmm. Victoria: it and that was uncomfortable to say yes. And then, you know, they were hoping that we would do this thing. And then as it drew near, as the time drew near, I said no. And Danielle: Mm-hmm. Victoria: I don't think that was appropriate. If I said yes, I should have followed through or I should have just said Danielle: Mm. Victoria: no from the beginning. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: Yourself. Danielle: I recently said yes to someone about helping them with a... what was supposed to be a little project, a little lighting project. And it was just supposed to be, yes, I'll help you find someone who can this for you. I'm not available. I have rehearsals and then I'm, have a show and then I'm leaving town. And so I don't really have any time to help with this, but I can help source someone who does have time. And I immediately regretted it. It was just like, okay, also, I'm gonna need this. also we need you to find someone who can provide that. Also, we ordered this and it's available for pickup. Can you go pick it up? And it's just like, I literally do not have the time for this. I should have never told you yes. But I said yes because I was helping out a friend and immediately was like, I wish I would have said no to this. But I wanted to be useful, handy, reliable. And so I said yes. And I think that's my thing. I say yes a lot because I once again, I don't want to miss out on opportunities. So yeah, I'm going to say yes to this person because who knows what other opportunities they're going to have available But really, I just needed to say no because I was preoccupied even though to be fair I did tell them that I wasn't able to show up and they still needed me to show up. But I didn't show my best and so that didn't make me feel good about the foot that I was putting forward. I just I didn't have the mental capacity to help them with their project and they just kept asking for more and more and that made it really hard. Victoria: And there's that risk when you say yes, people can start adding to that that they did not Danielle: Yep. Victoria: that they did not warn you of in the beginning when Danielle: Yeah Victoria: they asked you and you gave them a yes. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: Yeah, that's that's happened to me as well. Danielle: Yeah. But, so this has just been a very interesting musing of the word no and saying no and how we can apply it. We're still learning about it and so like big conclusion here except for trying to understand why we say no and being curious about no and being curious about the intent behind the word no, right? And so. Victoria: Yes, absolutely. Danielle: a little different than what we have been doing with our podcast episodes, but I think also a good conversation to have just to, you know, for us to be curious and for you to be curious and for us to all together kind of use this curiosity to understand ourselves better and to show up for ourselves better. Victoria: Right. I've learned through this conversation, the importance of no. And I've also learned that sometimes I need to say yes and combat the fear and the doubt and Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: the anxiety and to understand Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: that that is what's happening and not to let it happen and to tell myself and others yes as opposed to no. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: It becomes bigger than just two letters. Danielle: Yeah, that is so true. So, with that being said, thanks for joining us in this conversation. Thanks for joining us as we're musing over the word no. We would love to know how you guys feel about the whole... challenging someone's no when you recognize that it's a no that's based out of fear does that look like in relationships? Obviously we have to respect their no, but how do we respect their no and offer them a different Victoria: Mm. Danielle: perspective? I'm super curious because as obviously as you guys are hearing a thing in our dynamics, I'm curious how you guys handle that. Anything to add? that you want to hear Victoria: I'm looking forward to moving forward, understanding the word no and using no appropriately for myself and for others. Telling myself Danielle: Yeah, yeah, definitely that. Victoria: no I'm looking forward to that. Danielle: Yeah, I can't wait to tell you now! So, all right, well, thank you guys for joining us. We will be Victoria: Thank you. Danielle: back in two weeks. So, thank you guys for joining us. We appreciate having you with us. Victoria: Yeah. Thanks for joining us guys. We appreciate it. Thanks for cheering us off. Danielle: as always, k bye. Victoria: Bye.