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Comedy · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, tolerators, listens to all the men I've tolerated before
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: with Anthony Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny. We
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: have another really talented guest on our hands today. Lynn
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Harris is the founder of the startup Gold Comedy, the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Comedy School, creative network and content studios centering women and
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: non binary folks. The classes, celeb Q and A's sketch teams,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: community and more build expertise, creativity, confidence and careers for
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: women pursuing showbiz dreams or the comedy skills that are
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: life skills. And I wanted to brag about that right
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: off the bat because I've joined, So if you want
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to be a real life friend, you have to join. Join.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: But of course, every guest that we have on the
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: show is a multi hyphen it. We don't we have
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: more than one hobby here until the men I'm tolerated
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: to be poor. So Lynn is also a stand up producer, creator, journalist,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and author. And today we're just gonna talk some shit
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: on comedy. Lynn.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Thank you, thank you. I was just laughing and
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: nodding vigorously. And I love, I love to be a tolerator.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: That's what that's like the Yeah, that's like, it's perfect.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to add that to my multi hypen it.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really does feel like we could defeat something.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, right, Reporter, producer, tolerator.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I should refer to myself in the third
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: person as a tolerator more often that if.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: My kid was here now, he'd go tolerator. You brought
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: it to the party, you know.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I yeah, I should love my own brand. But today's
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: about you. We've already said that at the top before
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: we even hit record. It's about you today. So if
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I missed any of your jobs, please say them now.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: But also just tell me how Gold Comedy started, because
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I've gotten pieces of the origin story, Natalie.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: It started with patriarchy.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: So it started in Biblical.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Patriarchy was well established by the writing of the Bible,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: they do, say one of the writers of the of
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: the Hebrew Bible.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: That's another podcast.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she was underpaid anyway. Gold got started because
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: of me because we need more women in comedy. That's it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And why do we need more women in comedy? Well,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: there's two there's you know, there's the problem, and there's
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: the there's the the you know the good thing. The
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: problem is that it's you know, comedy is hard for everyone.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Comedy is hard for an average white dude. Comedy is
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: hard for a talented white dude. It's hard for all
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: of us. It's still especially hard for women, non binary
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: creators and what we call other others. It still is
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: we can go into that. And so that matters because
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: women are people. It matters because comedy is a job,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: and it matters for all the reasons that inclusivity and
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. Inclusion matters in everywhere else because when
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: comedy is more inclusive, comedy is better and the world
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: is a better place. Why because comedy is also a
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: cultural force. So it really matters who makes it. And
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: it matters who who has the is seen as having
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: the authority to talk while people listen. It matters who
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: has the power to make the kind of comedy that
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: actually can change hearts, minds and actions and so and
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: it matters because uh, comedy is awesome. It's like, this
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: is not the only like my angle is not the
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: only angle for changing the face of power, but it's
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: mine because I love comedy and when you make people laugh,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: you make people listen. So when you expand who gets
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: to talk and who has the power to create comedy.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: You actually help build a world that listens to women.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, always, I mean that was a write a thesis.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I was just looking to go back into academia.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Well, we should to avoid debt and loans.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, so that seems great, that seems smart.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, maybe I should just become a zoologist
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: and they'll never make me pay my back my debts never,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: never ever. I it's so true because I've taken when
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I got when I had the privilege to go to therapy,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I would take bits from female comedians and be like,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I feel this way. I don't know how to express it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've never that's that's actually beautiful.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Well, it's because Taylor Tomlinson was very open about her
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: diagnosis and the therapy she was going through. So I'd
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: be like, yeah, and I feel that way too.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's no, that's really beautiful because you know
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: that a comic is gonna you know, put it succinctly
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and and what's what's interesting about comedy and also storytelling
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: is and I mean I don't mean storytelling like the
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: way they use it, like brand storytelling, which is that's fine,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: it's a thing. But I mean, like literally, like the moth,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: like telling a story on a stage. Is that the
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: more specific you are, the more relatable you are, which
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: sounds like a paradox, right, but it's not, because the
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: more specific you are, the more vivid you are, and
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: therefore people see it, and then you open this portal
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to the primal.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: And so even if even if someone has a different
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: diagnosis or a different challenge or whatever, there's often something
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: about the way comedians can describe things that even if
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: it's not your exact situation, or even if you have
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: a similar situation but they're very different from you, you
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: still can have that open up that relatability portal and
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: really see yourself. It's amazing.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Well, and laughter also conquers fear. That's why we defensive laugh,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: but it does. It conquers fear. And I've been mulling
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: over this idea of the only reason anyone is hateful
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: or like a bigot, or like refuses to use correct
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: pronouns for a person that they're meeting or anything is
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: because they're having a fear response because they feel out
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: of the loop and they won't do the work to
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: put themselves in the loops. So they're just gonna clutch
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: that fear and lash out. But if everyone in the
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: room is laughing about the elephant in the room, it
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: takes away that threat.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I totally, I totally agree with that. I totally agree
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: with that. We used to do. I used to work.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, missed one I used to was. I was
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: VP of communications for a really cool human rights organization
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: called Breakthrough that still exists, but it's it's changed, it's
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: its approach a little bit. But they're they're well, they
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: still do the same thing in India, different in the US.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Doesn't matter. There's still you should look them up. But
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: the main thing was that they use pop culture tools
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: to make human rights issues real and relevant and actionable,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: and including in the US, where we don't often think
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: about human rights. We think about civil rights, as we should,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: but we don't often we think about human rights as
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: a thing they lack elsewhere. But in fact, you know,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: gender based violence is human rights issue, et cetera. And
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: so we did a bunch of projects that turned on
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: the idea this is it's not precisely what you're saying,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: but it made me think of it. It's it's very similar.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: That turned on the idea that we in order to
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: challenge and solve gender based violence, in particular violence against women,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: we need men to challenge themselves to stop it.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, not that not.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: We're not the only people who had that idea, but
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: we had some fun with the pop culture products that
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: we could that we could create that that made the
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: hero of the story the guy who was like uh bro,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: and that because he wasn't just shaming one guy, or
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: let's say he was, but in the in the animations
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: that we made, and some of them wound up at
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: like NASCAR races and stuff, what what we showed was,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: and this is like backed by science, is that when
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: one guy in a room says to the other guy, bro,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: then the other guy fall in. The other guys go
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: yeah bro, but it cut it out, but it takes.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: The first guy yeah. And it's always the scariest to
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: be the first guy, right, So that.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Isn't laughter, But we delivered that. We like did funny
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: animations that were like kind of you know, goofy and
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: weird that actually delivered that message in a more palatable
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: way than like a scold.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, because people go on the defense when
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: they're scolded. I the very idea, and well, I used
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to be a teacher, and so I was a big
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: reader growing up, and I guess I didn't realize that
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: like boys were marketed to read. It's like, we have
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: to put all of the books in schools and they
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: all have to be from a male perspective in POV
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: because in the nineties, boys don't read like that was
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: just like on posters, boys don't read, you don't have to.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And so here were all of these girls reading the
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Princess Diaries, reading their chick, reading the Hunger Games, gaining
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: empathy for how other people live, and the nineties were
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: like boys, you just don't have to. You don't have
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: to read. I literally, I'm like, oh, we never made
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: boys read in the nineties.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: I had no idea. Wow.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think smarter people than me are starting
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: to link that to how awful we feel today about dating,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: interpersonal relationships, the lack of empathy that we have for
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: one another, all of it. And it's because it takes
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you have to experience, and this connects to you were
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: using pop culture. You have to actually see other people's
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: experiences and know them to empathize with them. So if
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: you're not, if you're just watching a fellow teenager play
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Minecraft all day and he's in the same level of
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: school as you, his socioeconomics looks exactly like you or whatever,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: you might be pissed if he I don't even know
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: if you can lose Minecraft, but you might be pens. Yeah,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: he might be pas to be loses, but you're not
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: emphasize empathizing with him, like there's no reciprocal thing that's happening.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: And yeah, smarter people than me are starting to do
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: studies on that, and it does blow me away.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Well, two things I think you can I think there
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: is like creator mode in minecaft Minecraft where you can
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: like co create things and that's nice, but and not
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: destroy things. But that's neither here nor there. That brings
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: us back to comedy though. What you're saying is that
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: actually comedy can create, even whether it's stand up or
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: sketch or a TV show, can create that kind of
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: empathy in such a nice in such a like fun
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: delivery system, you know, like I'm thinking about. Well, first
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: we were talking about like stand up, you know, and
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: or sorry, Well, yes, we were talking about stand up
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: and where you know, even if you if you're a whatever,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: if you're a white dude, even the nicest white dude,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: you know, and you go to see comedy and you
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: happen and like by some stroke of amazingness at a
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: regular club, there's like, you know, there's a comic of color.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: There's I mean, there is there are there. I should
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: be fair. There is a comic of color, a transcomic,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: a woman, whatever it is. You know, the social contract
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: is that you have to listen to them for eight
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: minutes or whatever it is, you know. And because of
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: the magic of comedy where there's such this amazing, sort
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: of surprising level of access to relatability, I think that
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: creates empathy right there and you don't even notice it
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: because you're just.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: You're laughing because you're laughing.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the other thing is I think about TV
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: shows that have a social purpose but don't feel like
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: they do. Like I always think about the reboot of
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: One Day at a Time, where the family was an
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: immigrant family and so they sort of did they were
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: able to do two things at once. They were able
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: to be show that this immigrant family was guess what
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: a regular American family who worried about groceries and homework
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: and bedtime and curfews and all those things. So that's
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: number one that like that shift is taking place in
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: your brain when you're watching that show, you're under it's
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: normalizing U, you know, an immigrant family as an American family.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: And also once once the show gained your trust, then
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: they dealt with like a few things that were more
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: like a very special blossom you know, where they where
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: they like dealt with an issue that had to do
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: with the fact that you know, they were an immigrant
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: family or the grandmother whatever, you know, and so and
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: but it's still one day at a time. Yeah, you know,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: it's not a ted talk, it's not a it's not
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: a thesis, it's not a lecture, you know. So it
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: really can get under your skin without your even realizing
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: it in a good way.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Living through millennial pop pulture and television as trash as
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: it was, I'm like, it was amazing when Blackish came
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: on the TV and people were like, finally ABC has
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: like a show of color on the ABC lineup, And
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I'm like, when I was watching TV as a kid,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: there were always people of color, like you had family matters.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I watched Selena every time the superstation played it. The
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: bur I loved the Bernie mac Show. It's one of
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: my favorite sitcoms. George Lopez all of well, and they
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: were comedian heavy sitcoms and I and I've also kept
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: up with a lot of the work of those comedians
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: throughout the years, and they happened to be comedians of
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: color and stuff. And you're exactly right. I'm like, when
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: I went and saw In the Heights in the movie theater,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I kept I kept whispering to my friend, my very
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: white Croatian family does this too, and she's like, yeah,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: we get it, okay, And I was like, do you
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: think it's because the area of town that my mom
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: grew up in was called Little Italy? Do you think
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: that that's why we stole people's culture? Why do you
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: think my aunt Sunni is so good at making manicotti?
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: And she's like, well, unpack it. Later watched the movie.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Natalie watched the movie, but in the Heights, In the Heights,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: But I'm always so blown away that people can't there's
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: such a blockage now that people aren't making those connections
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: that the Blackish family was very much your average sitcom
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: family that anyone could relate to, and also they were
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: teaching you things about the experiences that they had in America.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Fresh off the Boat was another one, yep, yep, And
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: then you hear the inside stories of how hard it
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: was to even get those shows up off the ground.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And One Day at a Time was canceled way too soon.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And With Love on Prime is another one that was
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: canceled way too soon.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Yep. But it's so crazy. This is new. I mean, right,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I grew up in the seventies and we watched let's
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: see the Jeffersons, the one, what was the other one.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: With the with Diyna Mite, good times.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Good times, We thank you We. I mean it's you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that like we were like so enlightened.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not saying about me personally. I'm just
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: saying the landscape was, you know, was was not purely white.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: You know. I don't know, it's I feel like it
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: erases all those shows that were so seminal and it
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: felt seamless. I watch about it. Yeah, we didn't think,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: you know, so did women that. I say this a
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: lot like I'm not saying that the seventies were better,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: You're like, just you know, so don't at me. I'm
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: just saying that it was its peculiar because there was
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: so much back then that was so bad. Like literally,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I am old enough to remember separate classified ads for
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: men and women. Okay, so I am not sugar hoting
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: what we you know, what we grew up with that.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that, like you know, all the women and
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: people of colored that were about your reference were being
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: paid a third of what you know. I'm sure that
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: everything is terrible. I get it, I get it, but
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I will I will tell you that in my memory,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: which is admittedly spotty, but my memory of those core
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: memories of you know, I love Lucy, Carol Burnett, certainly
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the Jefferson's, uh mash miss Piggy, you know, all of
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: the laugh in all of the variety shows. No one
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: talked about those women or those people as women comics
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: or black shows like in my like that's not no
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: one did. But I didn't hear it, like that's that's
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: not how the culture communicated them, at least to me,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't. I didn't hear it, and so I
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: don't know why, because I'm sure again, I'm sure everything.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I know that everything else was terrible. I get it,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: but like, we didn't do that, and I don't know
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: why we do it more.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I'm always so blown away, how like a year will
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: pass and I go, we still didn't have any movies
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: this year that were just about middle school girls, Like
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: there was always a middle school girl movie that you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: could watch when I was a kid, Like now and
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: then that's my favorite one, and it's the only one
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: that's gonna pop in my mind.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: What's the one with the radio she does a radio
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: show in the school, and then it's like Harry at
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: the Spy, but with a radio show in the school.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: True Confessions.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Nope, hold on, I think high school anyway, it's not
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: middle school. Okay, anyway, Sorry, it was a good one.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: But I'm always like, where are all number one? There?
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I I am convinced that someone somewhere has just turned
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: off the switch that made children's programming marketable. They were like, oh,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: kids and teens not marketable, let's stop making shows for them?
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Or I am so completely out of that demographic. I
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: have no idea what they're were.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to think, well, you know the way
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: you have to think about it is in terms of teens.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: What were my kids watching when they were nine? You know?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: And then because it's always because when I was young,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: we read we read seventeen when we were twelve, and
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: we read Glamor when we were seventeen. Right, yes, so
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I have to think about, like, what are the my kids? Oh,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: what's the one with Dove Dove Campbell.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: The Descendants with Dove camp before.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Dove Cameron Dove Cameron, the one, the one with where
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: she's the sister, where they're the twin sisters.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. I only know Descendants.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: They love that one. That's that's a good one. But
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: but they're not regular kids and.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: No, they're just they're Disney. They're Disney billion kids.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: They'ney billing kids, which I liked. I really liked that one.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: But I don't know. Yeah, I don't have a good
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I don't have good examples or counterexamples. I need to
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I need to summon my children well.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: And you know what, and we're not even supposed to
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: be talking about just TV in general. We're supposed to
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: be talking about comedy. Sure, do you want to throw
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: and the patriarchy? Do you want to throw in some
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: anecdotes about misogyny and charity.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I do. And it's and I'll say this,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I was fortunate in that possibly because possibly not this
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: is not to blame the potential victim, but possibly because
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I wasn't that ambitious as a stand up by which
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I mean it's not a self effacing thing to say.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I just mean that my goal for doing stand up
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: was to do stand up. So I just really enjoyed.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I worked really hard at it. And sure I did
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: like industry showcases and you know, and I worked, but
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I worked really hard just to do it, just to
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: get better spots. Basically I didn't care about like getting cast.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't care. Of course I cared, but I wasn't
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: like trying that hard. Yeah, And so perhaps because of that,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I was spared some of the worst
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: offenses that we all know have happened that still happened
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: like to this day, which, if you know, it just
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: feels almost old fashioned. It feels like one of the
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: things I want to say to these dudes is like, dude,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: we don't do It's just we did that before, like
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: we've done like how are you still do anyway? So
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: one that I remember that is fun is. It's not
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: fun is. I'll say it was Jeff Ross. It was
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Jeff Ross. He's really famous. It was Jeff Ross. And
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: because he you know, it was a public comedy show,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I can say that, you know, not divulging your confidence anyway.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: He I was like, you know, pretty green and I
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: was doing some show that that he was. I don't
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: remember where it was in New York and how here's
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: how it goes typically, And by the way, again, this
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: is not a major this is not a major story.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: It's just indicative of freakin' everything. Okay, So here's what
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: you do. You show, say, there's eight comics on a
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: show that if you're you know, the the MC typically
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: goes just like walks up to each of you. It says,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: what do you want me to say about you? And like,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: if you're in the nineties, which I was, you write
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: on a little notepad, like you know, okay, clubs in colleges,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: you know, has a show coming up at Caroline's. That's it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: And so he didn't like I'm the only woman, which
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: is normal and still is not weird. Still, I mean,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: it's weird, but it still happens insane and I was like,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: that's funny. Jeff Ross isn't coming up to me to
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: ask me what I want to what I want him
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: to say about me. So I was like, you know,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: doing a little you know, geeky over chiever walk over here.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: And I was like, hi, uh you can say that,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I you know, clubs and colleges whatever, and I work
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: at Oxygen whatever was, which I did. And he's like okay,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and so the anyway, I'm making this much too long
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: a story, but anyway, he so goes as my turn
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: goes up, and he was like, uh, next, Now we
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: got a lady come to the stage, which they all
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: fucking say they never say. Now we got a dude coming.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Now we got an Asian dude coming. Can you imagine?
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: They never did that? And now I'm gonna live and
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: uh her name, uh this is me on is Jeff
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: on stage? Yeah? Ah man, well she works at like Lifetime.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: I think, oh no, and uh, anyway, sorry here she is.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: He didn't say sorry, here's she it, you know, And
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I've got all day to be mad
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: at the obvious sexism. Right, what's more important here or
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: what's the real point here? Is your sexism. Maybe you
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: bad at your job. Yeah, like my feeling are my
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: feelings hurt? I mean at the time, they probably were,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: but in retrospect that's not the point, right, it's not.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: It's my feelings were, Like, my feelings aren't hurt. You
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: are bad at your job. You have one job, which
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: is to make the audience excited to see that make
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: the audience feel good, and that includes making them excited
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: to see the next comic. That's it, And it's not
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: that hard to like, even if you forget that I
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: worked at Oxygen, just skip it. Just like, make something up.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. Your only job. Make up my name.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: It doesn't like, it doesn't matter, or just be like
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: just be like, I'm so sorry. What was your name again? Lynn? Sorry?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Got it all right? That's on me. That's on me, folks.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Lynn is hilarious. That's on me. Having like, there are
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: so many ways to recover from even just like even
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: if you do do that mistake, like there's he did
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: not care and I guarantee you he would have. For
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: a dude, he would have been like, you know whatever. Anyway,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: So it's just that story is not a giant deal,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: but it's just like that's the It's like, even if
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: you don't have a like a god forbid, like a
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: harassment story or an assault story, or a really clear
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: or a really clear, you know, violation story, you have
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: this like sexism by a thousand cuts. And for me
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: it didn't amount to much because it was just a
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: pain in the ass. It was just like walking around
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: the world as a woman who does comedy. But even
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: those thousand cuts can add up because what happens is
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: if you're if you're if you're more ambitious, you wind
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: up being like, well, can't work with that booker, Well
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: can't work at that club. Even if they're not actively predatory,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: they can make your life miserable, which is actually illegal.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: It's you know, it's called the hostile work environment. It's
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: just that comedy is weird because it's not always that
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so. And then the other one I'll tell
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: you is that I love to repeat is I was
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: on and again you look this up. No, but not
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: betraying any confidences. I was on in the early early
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: early days of gold kind of me sort of figuring
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: out what it was we were on. I was on
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the Comedy Seller podcast, and it's a it's a big
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: deal podcast and it like the Comedy Seller sort of
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: an institution, and they do it in person in the
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: like the back table at the Comedy Celler. It was
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a big deal.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: And so so I'm so long story short, I was,
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: I had been working with teas, but there was a
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: teen who couldn't come, and so I brought our intern
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: who was amazing, Carson Smith.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Hi, Carson, she's amazing. She's super accomplished, and she's also
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: really pretty. And which is which I say, which is
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: relevant only because those dudes thought it was relevant. And
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: what I mean is that it was Nome who owns
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: the club, and another comedian and you can find out
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: who it was by listening to the podcast. And and
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: so Carson at one point is like, so, you know,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: what's your advice for comics who want to work at
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: the Comedy Seller, And Noa looks at her in the
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: eye and not joking, said, well, you kind of want
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: to make them feel like they've got a shot with you,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and and I was like, there's a microphone in front
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: of you. I mean, it's like, I know you guys
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: say that, Like I totally know that that's real, right,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: But you just like, how, how what level of impunity
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: do we still have in twenty twenty whatever that you
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: just said that into a microphone on the podcast. That
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: is your building your brand for your club, like you
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: and I don't even care if it was a joke,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: which it wasn't. I mean it kind of was, but
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: it wasn't. You know what I'm saying, Like, it's just like, okay,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: so now you've just told I'm just using a gender
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: binary here for ease, uhi of the comedians and audience
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: members of your club that you that they are lesser there,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: less than the others, which, again, your sexism doesn't hurt
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: my feelings. It just tells me you're bad at your job.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Right. And the Death by a thousand Cuts is basically
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: the theme of the show because we could drone on
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: and on all day long about the manisphere and in
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: cells and all of it and harassment and violence against women,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: and we talk about it, but it's trying to get
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: people to understand that it's like, no, it's the day
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: to day. It's just that it's not being listened to,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: it's not being taken seriously, it's not getting booked for.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: It's where people just go oh, I just thought that
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: was my lot in life. And it's like, no, it's
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: that's purposeful. Yeah.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Well, there's two other things that are to exactly that point.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Well one is even a more recent example of and
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: I'll say it. It was on Instagram, so I can
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: say it was Nick Nicks and another venerable excellent comedy
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: club in Boston, this time they recently last summer, they
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: had a show called Chicks at Nicks, which, first of all,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: come on, can we not? Like, just can we not?
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I get that it rhymes and that's very smart of you,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: but I you know, and so. But the image again
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: you can find this was it was all women, and
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: it was the photos of the comics heads poorly photoshopped
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: onto the groin and legs of barbiees. Why I know
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: and so and like, and there were some comments where
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the comics who were on the show said like, hah,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: that's funny, and that's fine. Like, I'm not I don't
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: care if those four women, like, it's not interesting to
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: me irrelevant if that those four women thought it was funny.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: It's a little interesting in the sense that like, because
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: it's actually great. If those four women thought it was funny, fantastic,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: But think of all the ones who didn't and who
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: now the excellent comics who now don't want to work
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: at Nick's, which again, Nick's bad at your job. And
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: then also as a potential audience member, I'm like, I'm
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: not going to go to that club because I see
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: how they treat women at that club. I don't want
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to give my money to that club. Like, how do
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I know how they treat the women bartender? How do
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I like? I am that is so obvious to me
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: that they don't care about women, by that dumb ass,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: for that dumb ass, and that you just like that
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: is the worst example of being bad, Like it is
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: the worst way you could tell everyone that you're bad
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: at your job, Like I just so that's one. But
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: again it's like, was it horrifying? No, it was just stupid.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: But like good, good, good, good good the grind. The
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: other is switching gears a little bit. Is just being
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: the founder of a company, which I have some experience with.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And when I mention, okay, it's a few things and
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: we'll get back to pop culture. When I mention, you know,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I'm a I'm let's let's use the keywords. So what
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: do you do a party? Network, entrepreneur, founder, CEO? Uh,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: business company?
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: These are words that I use, whether it's meeting someone
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: incidentally or like all the time with people I sort
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: of know vaguely, almost without exception, people kind of respond,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: whether immediately or in general, by saying, like, how's your program,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: how's your Literally they say collective. I'm like, who the
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: fuck said collective? Nobody said collective? Where did you get that? Oh?
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I know it's because I'm a lady, and it's because
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: our my company serves ladies. And and then the next
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: thing they ask is have you seen Missus Masel? And
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: no shade to missus Mazel. Okay, I mean some shade,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: But that's not the point. It's fine, it's fine. It's
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: actually delightful. I actually rewatched it and found it delightful.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: If you want to learn about women in comedy, watch Hacks.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: If you want a delightful comedy with great clothes, watch
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Missus Maizel. And it gets better and better and the
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: end is great. Like, yeah, sure, it's great, But I'm like,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: this is telling me that there's not enough media to
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: go around that it has anything to do with women,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: you know, because if that's your only reference, and that again,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: to be fair, I don't expect everyone to be like
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: an expert in women in comedy or an expert on
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: the entire pop culture landscape. But it reminds me of
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: when last thing on this when my creative partner and
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I co created this is the whole bigger story, but
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: the very short version co created a superhero called Breakup
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Girl who helps people with romantic emergencies, which is like
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: my entire basically, this is my entire nineties that this
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: was going on, and so it's huge. I'm giving it
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: short shrift here for time. But at the time, when
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: anyone heard that I was that that was what I
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: was doing, if they didn't already know it, they would say,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: and again I had said that, I that the character
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: that we created was a superhero who helps all like
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: a cartoon superhero who helps all people with romantic emergencies.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: They would say, is that like Sex and the City
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: And I'd be like, it is, it's not at all
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: like Sex and the No, in no way like Sex
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: and the City. I mean, I think, to be fair,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: there was the character of the superhero had an advice column,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: and like, okay, but again again, I just said she
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: was a cartoon superhero. So my point there is not
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: necessarily to shame of the people who asked that, but
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: to point out there was not enough for them to
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: choose from. There was not enough stuff that centered women
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: so that they would like it's like, you know, it's
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: like the last of us is that, like this is us.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, you know, it's just like they have
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: nothing to do, you know, they have the word us
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: like that. You know, it's so. But nobody would say
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: that now. Thank god, nobody would say that now because
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: there's so much else. There's so much so those were
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: the days. But it still happens. We all know.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: We all know, yes, I I wow. Just isn't like
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the city. It's a lot you want to get into
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: cancel culture and.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: How with comics with male comics.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and how they're all having a baby tantrum about it.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I'll say that and never get booked anywhere, even though
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I'm taking her stand up.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: No you're not. Of course they're gonna, but you're gonna
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: be fine. Never get booked, Never get booked. That's what
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: they complained about, Natalie, That's what And it's like complaining
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: about that while they're booking what Madison Square.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Garden, Isn't that the thing.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: They're like, they're gonna be They're oh my.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: God, not losing one of their friends. Now one of
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: their friends has gone. You know what, dude, it's not cool.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I mean even if they even if they have, we
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: don't know, like right maybe, I mean maybe they have, right,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know, we don't know. But the point is
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: they're not actually can't like they're fine. They're fine, yeah,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: like and I'm not maybe just objectively like we can
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: have opinions about whether they should ever work again or not.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: We can have opinions, right, But the fact is they
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: really don't have a lot a lot to complain about.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Correct, And I think that So my sister listens to
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of what I refer to as sad boy music,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: where it's just like a guy and his feelings in
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: his guitar and they're always white. And she'll turn it
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: on and I'm like, what do these guys have to
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: bitch about? And she's like the feelings and the I
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: was like, who's hurt their feelings today? And I was like, I,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: you know, talk about lack of empathy. I have said
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: before I'm like, I don't have patience for sad boys,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: especially if you're a sad white boy. What are you
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: sad about? The whole world is built around you and
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: your needs and your ego, So why are you crying
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: to me?
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Or even if you like, even if you find an
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: ounce of empathy, it's still patriarchy's fault, which is that
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: in fact, my super feminist kid who goes by, who
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: uses to be respectful uses they then pronouns but but
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: is a big feminist and you know, very femin and
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: all that stuff and just dated and stopped dating a boy.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Was was like sad because the boy wasn't ready. Of course,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: no kid, no boys ready for my kid, because Mike's amazing,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: you know, and but like and and uh and and
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: they they my kid b was complaining to me. They
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: were complaining to me that like basically, oh, they said,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I blame patriarchy because they didn't like teach this boy
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: how to like have his feelings and communicate about his feelings.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Like they didn't even really mind that whatever they you know, like, okay,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: And my joke about that, my friend Laura made this
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: joke like when a boy says, I'm just I'm just
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: not ready for a relationship. Her joke is, well, you
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: should have told you that.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, journal, journal, journal, through your feelings.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so, like that's the thing. It's still patriarchy's
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: fault even if they don't know how to handle their
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: feelings or express their feelings or feel their feelings or whatever.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Like no one has told them, you know.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: And no one has ever told them that their disappointment
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: can just stay their disappointment. Like, yes, part of the
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: fun thing about watching men feel is watching them make
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: it everyone else's problem. And I'm like, why is this
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: my problem today? I'm just at the grocery store. We're
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: all frustrated.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, oh okay, I was thinking about this that
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I wanted to say this on this podcast because I
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: was thinking about it the other night. And I feel
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: that it needs I feel that my as most dudes,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I feel that my opinion needs a larger platform. We
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: were watching one of my favorite shows of all time,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: RuPaul's Drag Race, and they did wear big drag Race
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: family and and they're allowed to do what I am
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: about to say, but I still have a complaint. And
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: they did a Night of the Living Karens and they
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: had and of course it was hilarious, fine, and so
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: they had that. They had they put the queens in
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: different scenarios. They had to sort of be quote unquote Karens,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: my beef is. That was fine, but but it made
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: me think, like, why has the term Karen bothered me
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: so much? Or what is the whole thing about Karen's
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: bothered me so much? And I didn't think about it
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: until I saw it kind of reversed where they were
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: where it was sort of you know, in this in
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: this kind of extreme drag situation. And it's because every
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: like Mineral Carns.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: You are correct, right, And so why are we?
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Why are we now? Are those individual Karens that go
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: around to Instagram like obnoxious? Yes, fine, but even allowing
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: for that though, what since the dawn of history men
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: have been asking for the fucking manager. They've been the
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: ones who are outraged at the tiniest slight. You know,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: they're the ones who will not stand for this. They're
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: the ones who demand special treatment. How did we how
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: did we finally just blame this all on women? So
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I will now no longer like like use the you know,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: it just hit me you know, with the watching it
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: on Friday, like it's completely misogynous, this whole thing and.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: The way about that never comes back around, like they
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: have to be catered to and you have to constantly
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: be thinking about their feelings. And it's like I wanted
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: water now and it's like okay, and it's just and
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: you were right, what a revolution? What a revolution? Right
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: the men with the original karens And we just called
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: it assertive and knowing what you want. M the difference
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: between the nag and the leader and honestly, that's gonna
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: knock me out right.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: And even just to bring it back to current events,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: like Pete heegsays, was mad that they were paying attention
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: to the deaths as opposed to the quote unquote victories
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: of the war. Like that's a Karen move right there,
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: because he's completely Karen, this whole this whole war.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Well, no one understands. Yeah, you're right, we don't understand, Pete,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: We don't understand what the fuck we're currently doing.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: You know, Actually, who's the biggest Karen. Jd Vance is
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: the biggest Karen. He has always aggrieved. He is always aggrieved.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just pouting and sulking well.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: If you just did your job.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know what happens if I power or sulk?
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I have no peace? I am why aren't you happy?
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: What's going on? Well, like, what's going on with you?
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Are you sick? Are you sick? What's going on? What's happened?
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Are you? Why are you set? And I'm like, I'm
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: literally existing. I'm just existing today quietly. It turns out, yeah,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: they were the original parents. Oh my gosh, yep, yep.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: You need to turn that into a bit or a sketch.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I think you know. I was thinking while you were
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: frozen that about this George Lopez bit that he used
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: to do very when I was a kid, and it
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: was about it's the same special where he talks about
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: having to split a chur row between nine kids at
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Disney World because they could only afford the one and
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: you only got to lick it, you don't get to
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: bite it. And it's about his aunt dancing at at
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: a party and her thong is out or something and
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: someone's trying to go tia tia, and he's dancing like
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: his aunt or whatever. Compared to now, that is a
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: joke that I would make about my own aunt and
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I have to her face. But then I think about
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: the jokes that I see about women now, and I'm like,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: at what point did we just decide that like hating
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: on women and children were the absolute way to go?
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I real talk, though I wonder there's
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: no way to actually measure this or even assert it.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: But part of me wonders if it actually is a
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: little bit better. Part of me I think the bar
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: is higher with stand up. I mean, obviously there's there's
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: like knuckleheads that still make those jokes, but I think
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the typical like like that kind of hacky old stuff.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: You know. Of course we'll still fly in some places,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: but I think the bar is like just generally higher
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: these days. And I think I don't mean to.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Sound naive or oh, because I'm concluding it with podcast culture,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: where they've turned in, where they've turned being an alpha
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: man fun and they use humor to do it. They
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: weaponize humor and our enjoyment of laughing yes to further
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: their patriarchal agenda. And I'm trying so hard to make
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: feminism funny so that people will become feminists.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are so many examples of great comics
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: who make who do a great job of you know,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: feminist comedy where they are excellent at securing the you know,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: patriarchal culture and pointing out the absurdities like but he's
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: the swim captain, you know, like he could be, you know,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: and pointing out I can think of Jenni Friedman as
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: great at that. Yeah, Cameron Esposito is great at that. Yes,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: there's so many, Uh, there's so many who are just
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: great at that. And they're still like mainstream com you know,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: they're they're not like niche feminist comics. They're like on
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: late night and stuff. So and I don't like that
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: stuff certainly wouldn't fly anymore on late night. It probably
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: would have a while ago.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And that's what I was actually as we
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: were talking, I was just like flashing to all of
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: these men who don't deserve microphones, and they're just like,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: and they're trying so hard to convince you that it's funny,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: that it's funny to hate your wife and the women
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: around you and your mom and be weird about kids
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: and things like that. And it doesn't land. But I
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: know why it doesn't land for me. It does land
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: with twelve year old middle schoolers. Unfortunately.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Yep, you're just not that each other's crowd.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: No, well, and that's I mean that Netflix show Adolescence
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: taught us that they're recruiting as young as twelve, if
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: not younger because of YouTube culture. Thanks a lot, but
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: we can still make fun of them. Oh and idea,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: what they're what.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: They fear the most.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's the thing too, because at the heart
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: of comedy is so much vulnerability, and I believe that
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: one of the tenants of being an alpha male is
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: you cannot be vulnerable. That's for the girls and the gangs,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and they don't want to be them unless they do,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: unless they do, unless they do.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, Well here's one. Here's I want to
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: hear about my triumph though, my small triumph over patriarchy.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Of course I do.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Okay. I was also saving this for you. Okay. So
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: the backstory is, so in New York City, there are
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: not enough, but there are bike lanes, and in some
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: cases we are even lucky enough to have bike lanes
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: that have that are like have some sort of like
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: barrier between the street and the bike lane and they're
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: painted green and they have a picture.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Of a bike yeah, like it's very they're very labeled, yep.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: And some of them are I mean, some of them
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: are like in the street and they're a little confusing
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: or not confusing. They're they're more they're not as clear,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: but whatever. Uh So, I I'm not gonna say I enjoy,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: but I make it. It's sort of a blood sport
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: where I yell at I'm always I ride bikes, you know,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: but you know, the city bikes all year round, and
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I make it my business to yell at any white
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: dude who is jogging in the bike lane. And because
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: of all for all the obvious reasons that I don't
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: have to explain to you or your audience, not the
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: least of which is that it's dangerous because we're on
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: like e bikes often and sometimes we don't see them
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: and it's just stupid. But also because they have the
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: whole sidewalk. And then I mean, you know, and it's
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: just like to me, it's just like the epitome of
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: patriarchy of like, I know, there's the sidewalk, but I
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: get to go in the bike lane because I'm special
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: and I got to take up at any space I want,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: and you know.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Well and it's because we think that they're real athletes,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: because I can't stand riding a bike anymore because you're
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: just like I'm just out for like my little freedom
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: moment and I'm just like trying to take in the sunshine.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: And then there's some guy who is like deciding that
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: he's winning a triathlon that we all didn't know that
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: we signed up for, screaming at you. I'm on your left, Okay,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. Also, you can slow down,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah, get around me.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep, you can go around me, sir. Yeah. So anyway,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: so this is like and like the rule, and I've
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: taught my son this and now my my white son,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: my you know sis, white son will come home proud
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: of the white dude that he yelled at in the
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: bike lane raised him upright, parenting, Metal goes to me,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: and we never and like our rule is we never
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: yell at people of color. But guess what, it's always
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: white dude. It's not a problem always. And anyway, so
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: so this happens, like you know, and sometimes I'm like
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: kind of mean about it. Sometimes I'll like wait till
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: I'm really close and be like you're on the bike lane,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: you know, which is fine because like it's their fault. Yeah,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: I would never do anything danger actually dangerous. Fine, So anyway,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: and then sometimes I yell something pithy like it literally
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: has a picture of a bike or you know whatever. Anyway, So,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: but so I have a long history of this practice.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: And and the other day the other day, I'm coming
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: around a corner in Brooklyn and there's a guy running
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: toward me. And if he's running toward me, what does
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: that mean. He's in the wrong lane. He's not only
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: in the bike lane, he's in the wrong lane. Okay.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, And so I'll try to tell
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: this without meaning a visual So I'm, you know, I'm
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: coming toward him. So I'm so he's you know, I'm
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: on I'm on the right and he's on my left,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: and so I'm kind of pebbling toward him, and I
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: kind of take one hand off the handlebar, my left
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: hand off the handlebar while I'm saying, dude, what the
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: hell you're in the you're going the wrong you're in
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: the bike lane, you're going the wrong wire or whatever
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: I said, right, and I'm gesturing with my left hand.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: He's got his air pods, listening to his like maroon
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: fucking whatever, Yeah five, and and and and so I
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: have my left hand in the air while I'm gesticulating angrily,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: and and as he comes toward me, he too raises
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: his left hand because he believes that I am biking
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: toward him, preparing to give him a high five.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: No, did you pop his face and just push him down?
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: No, because I didn't realize it. But what happened was
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize it in time, so I naturally took
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: my hand down when I was done gesturing, which coincidentally
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: was exactly the time that I denied him his high five.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Because what in the actual white dude, What in the
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: actual white dude was going on right there where he thought? Not,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: he's already like like triumphing because he's jogging in the
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: wrong way in the green the green sidewalk, sorry, the
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: green you know asphalt that has a picture of a bicycle.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: He's already triumphed. And then this like cute middle aged
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: girl comes around the corner with a leopard coat and
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: red lipstick and a cute blue helmet and says, Hey,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: that dude's awesome.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: He's an olympian.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: He's an Olympian, and I'm going to give him a
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: high five for his transgressive moves and and also because
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: he's can you like what had to happen in his
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: head for that to be what was happening? But yet
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: he was denied. So I absolutely won that won. That
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: didn't win the bat didn't win the war, but I
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: won that battle.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Can I tell you my small act of activism. I
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: tell my dad every stage of my period that I'm on,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it's my PMDD week. You talk to me
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: at your own risk, but it is my PMDD week,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: and what you say will be taken out of yeah,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: and what you say will be And I've told him,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: I go PMDD means I'm allergic to my own hormones.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: That's that's what it means. That's what tik Tok told me.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: It means.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: It told me to take thumbs about it.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, but everything you say will be taken
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: out of context. It will hurt my feelings and drive
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: me to violence. So you risk it, I dare you.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: And then I tell him when I begin my period,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: and I tell him I need a cheeseburger, I need
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: my blood meat, and he just looks at me. I go,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: something must be sacrificed to the gods, the blood meat.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: I need my blood meat. I need my carnage. I'm
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: a monster. Currently, we should be able to talk about
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: periods openly. My sister did get squamish about the blood meat.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: She's like, what the hell are you saying? I go,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I need beef for my period. It demands it.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Observed my kids, you know, my older ones know, nineteen
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: and my other one seventeen. Having observed them talk about it,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: then plural like, it's much less at least in their circles,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: which in Brooklyn isn't like as lefty as everyone thinks
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: it is, because they all they've all went to like
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: they both went to public high schools with that pull
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: from tons of populations all over a city, I mean
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: a borough that if it were a city, would be
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: the fourth largest city in the world. So like, it's
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: not all like a feet you know whatever, and so
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: so they didn't neither of them went to like a
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: you know, super woke high school in all the ways
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: in some ways, yes, but not in all the ways.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: So they're not there. This is they're not they're not
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: a they're they're a good example my kids of like
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: high school kids in Brooklyn or New York City, and like, yeah,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: they just talked about it, like the girls talk about it.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: You know, they don't. It's not like you know, they
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: just you know, they'd be like in a in the
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: hall like hey, oh you gotta tamp on. You know,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: it's just it's not I like it. Yeah, it's I
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: will tell you that is a big that we've taken
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: some from my observation, we've taken a big stride.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: Well, and I would hope so I remember like shoving
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: pads and tampons into the waistband of my jeans to
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: be like, don't look at me. And I not even
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: as a teenager, as like a twenty seven year old
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: woman in an office, I'd be like, don't look at me,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: do not look at me. I am unclean. But also
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like, we should go back to period huts.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Please put me in a hut for a week.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: There's an argument to be made for that.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Please put me in the sunsory deprivation. I beg for it.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: I yearn I yearn for the period yurt. Please you
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: did hint that we do think it's getting better, and
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: it is, it is slowly. I mean, they could have
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: arrested me for starting this podcast and we're five years
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: strong and no one has arrested me.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: There you go, There you go.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: I haven't even really when was the last time I
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: was threatened. I don't even think I've been threatened in
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: a while over this. Okay, progress, you know, progress. Either
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not in their algorithm at all, or I'm in
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: no one's algorithm. Will never know. When you observe the
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: women in the clients of Gold and they have this community,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: what are some changes that you're starting to see just
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: in the people that you're supporting, like confident, Let's talk
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: some lightness. Let's let's brag about some people.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't think any of them thinks
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: it's particularly interesting that they're a woman doing comedy and
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: that is a major triumph, especially including and especially like
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: the women and you know, we have a huge age range,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: but the women in their like you know, forties and
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: fifties and up, like, it's not it's not like a
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: radical it is, but it isn't a radical act like
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: it would have been more you know, several years ago,
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: and no one's like people are less asking them like, well,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: but what about your children? We aren't you home with
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: your war? You know, we're your children war. You're zooming,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: you know, And it's just less of thing in a
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: good way, Like I I will live for the day
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: when you know. Of course, because we live in a
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: gendered world, of course there might be some kind of
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: differences you can point to when you know, when when
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: women do comedy versus men do comedy, because we experienced
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: the world in different ways. Like so I don't I
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: don't mind that, right, but I live for the day
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: when it's like no longer interesting that a woman is
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: doing comedy and that we don't call women. We don't
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: call comics women comics, yeah, or god forbid, comedians. Don't
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: get me started. But so I think, I really do
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: think that an analogy is that I used to play
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I had this to the multi hibhdus. I used to
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: play ice hockey, and just like recreationally, I was on
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: a women's the only women's travel team in New York City,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: so we had to travel to find people to play with,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: and like we actually literally had It was like one
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: of the maybe the first year that women had played
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: hockey in the Olympics. It was. It was in the nineties,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: and so we had people asking us if we were
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: the ones going to the Olympics, you know, and we
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: were like, that's funny. And uh. And now it's not
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: only because of the Olympics this past year, but like
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: it's when I was like in the nineties, Uh, when
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: I said I did hockey, I played hockey, people were
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: like wait what and and they had so many dumb questions,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: you know. And and now like if I say I
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: played hockey, people are like, oh wow. And so the
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: same thing with so analogy women's comedy, like women in comedy,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Thank God, Like it's just it's just not it's still
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: needs to be less interesting, but it's a lot less
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: interesting than it than than it has been. And that
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: as a relief. And I see that in the the
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: way people are really escaping the when they come to
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: go they're really escaping a bro vibe in the bro
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: vibe out in the world. But they're not escaping like
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: like disapproval in their lives. You know, they're not escaping
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: like you know, disapproval by the men. And there you know,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I am yeah, okay, okay, but but but I'm.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Glad everyone else is healthy. That's great, Great for you guys. Good.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they just don't see themselves as like I'm
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: doing this because I'm a woman, which is a fair
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: thing to do and say. But it's just like less
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: the prevailing vibe.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, which is honestly the sign of progress. That is,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: that's it, the millions of ways I would love to
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: just be ordinary. Wouldn't that be something if it was
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: just very ordinary for me to be good at writing?
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yep, oh man, yeah, I mean yeah, even when
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: I that's god, what this happens? Less too, when even
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: though I was complaining about the you know, the sexism
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: around when I say what I do, I was a
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: journalist for many years and I was like, I want awards.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: I was a very you know, quote unquote serious journalist,
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: and uh, there were so many people, especially like around
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: my husband's work and stuff, who would say things like,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: so are you still writing as if it was a hobby,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: and I'd be like, did you read the Times today?
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Because you know or you know whatever, and and it
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: was there's no way if the roles had been reversed
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: that they would say to my husband either. So were
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: you still? In fact, I know people where the roles
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: are reversed with our jobs and they don't say the
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: same things to the dude, you know, and or they
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: never did, and I forget where I was going with that,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: but oh the writing people didn't write. So just like,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: can you imagine like if if you're if you're if
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: you're a lawyer and someone says, like, sore you still
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: doing law things? You know?
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Like what you're still on that justice kick? Huh?
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Right, still on that cute well court? You know.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I've started when I talk to people who are
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: like not involved in this industry at all or comedy
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: or anything. I've started giving people's like actual like bios.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like tonight, I'm having a class and my teacher
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: is a television producer, and then I will list the
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: TV shows.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: They know that's really smart.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: No, that's really smart, honestly, because it's like, you know,
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: people still just don't have the right listening around with that,
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: you know, they don't they Oh or are you learning
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: to do some skits? You know? Like I mean they
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: just I think that's really smart. Yeah, that's really smart.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: I like and I always do it because it does
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: group number one. It helps me battle my own imposter syndrome.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm in the cool kids club. I Am
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: talking to Emmy win nurse. Okay, they got to stand
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: up with a trophy. And but also it does just
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: like because so often everything I do is just oh,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: your little hobby where you like clicketty clacketty, and it's like, no,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: let's do our closing out ceremony. We always end an
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: episode of Tell all the Men I've tolerated before with
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: a lesson that we would like to pass on for
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: the ages. So if you had a rock and you
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: could chisel one thing in it about comedy, what would
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: you say was your biggest lesson in your experiences developing
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: gold and being a company owner and being the person
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: who is fostering my inner comedian and all of it.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: Find the people who make you feel like you.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love that. That's for everyone.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not so sure about this comfort zone thing.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not so sure about the whole thing about like
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: putting yourself out of your comfort like we all we do,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: sure of course, Yeah, but like I've been put I
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: tried so hard in a lot of ways to put
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: myself there's the you know, there's the growth kind of
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: of getting out of your comfort zone, and there's the
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: try and do hard to make random people like you
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: comfort zone out of your comfort zone. That is just
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: not going to serve you, your business, your career, anything. So yeah,
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: find the way I think and confession slash bragging. I
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: someone I heard that advice in a room, a zoom
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: room with either Geena Davis or Shonda Rhymes, and they
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: were both on the same day. I was privileged enough
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: to be And I don't remember which of those women
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: said it, but I do want to give either of
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: both of them credit.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: It was one of them.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: I think it was Shonda, but I could be wrong.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: It feels like a very Shonda thing to say, because
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: it does feel like it aligns with her year of Yes, Like,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: in order to be in your year of Yes, you
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: have to be around the people who are going to
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: allow you to be your most authentic self, right because
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: otherwise God forbid, God forbid. Also with the comfort zone thing,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: I think you can be very uncomfortable with the people
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: who are letting you be your most authentic self because
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: you're so vulnerable in that moment. Yeah, yeah, you know,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I had a writing teacher mentor tell me one time
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: that because I used to like get sweaty when I
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: would get feedback, I say, used to like, it's in
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: the past. It's not in the past. I still get sweaty,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: but I described the physical sensation and she's like, yeah,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: I did hear one time, and it actually brought me
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of peace that every time you get feedback
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: on a project that you have put your heart and
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: soul into, it is supposed to feel like you're being
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: set on fire. And we all just lived with that,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: and here are these people fostering my creativity, allowing me
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: to tell the stories that I want to tell. And
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: it's still like, but I'm going to set you on
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: fire today, but nicely, but nicely, but also tell you
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: that some of it was good, right, Yeah.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: It's fundamentally good. And you are fundamentally good, and you
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: are fundamentally doing a good thing.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, and you are. And one time I had a
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: mentor tell me, you just show up every day better
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: than the day before. And the biggest compliment. I hope
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: that everyone hears that once in their lifetime about anything
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: that they're trying. You showed up every day better than
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: the day before.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Amen, What is a manifestation you would like to put
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: out into the energy in the universe for women in comedy,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: comedy in general, the world. If you want to get
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: real with I.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Want to manifest a world without the word comedian.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I didn't know. Okay, because now because I
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: have a weird dialect, So there's comedian, I, A N.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: But I'm assuming that you're meaning the I, E, N,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: N E and I say them the exact same way,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: which means I'm pronouncing one of them wrong.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, But I mean, it's it's really the intent,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: you know, like I just I it's it's in a
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: diminutive word. It makes you know someone once said, like,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: do you call your lawyer a lawyerrete? Oh? Did you
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: go to the doctors's today? Like it perpetuates the idea
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: that there's regular comics and then the lady's auxiliary. And
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: I don't mind if you need to like refer to
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: a woman comic as a woman comic for reasons. You know,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: there might be a reason. But like the number of
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: people who have said to me, oh, so you're a comedian,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Oh sorry, comedian, I'm like it was five the first time,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: you know, And so it's not the word. Yes, the
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: word drives me crazy, but what it is is an
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: indicator that we still have word to do. So that's
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: my manifestation that when we don't bother with that word anymore,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: will know that we've finally made it boring for women
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: to be comedians.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm always fascinated by how misogynistic our everyday language
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: is to begin with, like why do why can I
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: be called miss miss or missus? It's confusing? They get
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: one mister.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, I'll leave you with this. How about that?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: I just heard of a woman's like a CEO, powerful
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: woman who everyo, every room, like every meeting she walks
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: into no matter who's there.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: She says, Hi, ladies, I love it, Lynn, You're a delight.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: I am enjoying the heck out of gold. I want
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: you to brag about anything and everything you want to
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: brag about, but I also just want to hand over
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: my gratitude. I have really enjoyed getting to know you
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: and everyone else that you've brought into my life. So
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: thank you for wanting to do this to begin with,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: and for being fantastic.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for honestly for being so game and
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: so just like ready to take yourself to You're already
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: at a you know, a high level of broadcasting and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: podcasting and writing and pilo writing all that stuff. But
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: thank you for being game to be like I'll do
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: it and jump in so so awesome. I'm really grateful
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: that you did that. So yeah, I'll send you some
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: show notes with some codes and some this and some that.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: But you know, I really just recommend that people either
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: just drop in for a free trial because you have
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: nothing to lose for a free trial, or also I'll
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: send you a link for this, or also just make
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: make an appointment to talk to me. And if you
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: have questions about like what is what happens in gold?
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: What am I paying for? Are there payment plan options?
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: You know, like just whatever? Or or even not about gold,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: like what are my next steps if I want to,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: you know, do this thing. I might not know the answer,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: but I might know someone who does. So Mike Calendly
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: is your Calendly. So I'll send you all those links.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, and you know, the drill Tolerators were
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: on TikTok Instagram at natleye K one two four and
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: men I've tolerated pod. There's a link in the show notes.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: There's a bunch of links at the show notes. Now
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: you're getting all the treats today where you can get
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: onto Patreon and find our blogs, my monthly misogyny musings
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: and the rest of it. And remember, tolerators, you don't
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: have to smile through anything you're tolerating, including the host
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: of the comedy show doing a really bad job and
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: introducing the comic with well, she's a lady, So feel
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: free to go refresh your drinks or go to the
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: bathroom because that's the one I actually hate. I know,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: look at your face. I meant to run that up
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: that that's when I've heard and I actually hate. But anyways,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: smiles are for joy.